subi pwns...it always will. No USA car can compare, in fact I searched today and there's not one car the big 3 produces with AWD! There are some special edition taurus' and other random cars, but nothing even mildly produced.
i will say this makes me wanna buy a subaru but is there any chance that this was paid for by subaru? i mean it would be kinda hard to fake this but it could happen and im not doubting the people on here but my physics teacher says always look and be weary of biased in anything
I notice this video doesn't simulate 3 wheels on ice and only one wheel making traction with the 2008 Forester. They don't mention it having VDC. I'm betting that's the reason. They wait to do that test with the Legacy with VTD/VDC and limited slip rear. Stating that it is the drive train most like the VW. Again, if I'm wrong...please explain. I would love to know that my car would climb with only one wheel making traction.
@yngvaigilbsteen The 2008 Forester without an Limited Slip Differential would not have been able to climb on one wheel at all. A 2008 Forester XT with no VDC and an LSD could climb, but only on one rear wheel. A vehicle with VDC can climb on any one wheel, depending on weight, incline/decline, and the traction of one wheel.
The only way for an awd system to really control individual wheel spin is through a breaking process provided by a traction control computer. Correct? If I'm wrong, please explain. And if so...how DOES subarus awd system route power to just one wheel?
@yngvaigilbsteen No. left and right torque split can happen through the use of non open differentials on the front and rear axles. Some previous Subarus had rear limited slip differentials. They could transfer power left and right on the rear, but had open front diffs. The WRX STI has a mechanical front and a Torsen rear differential. It can transfer power left and right on the front and rear wheels without VDC.
@SoDaSub That much I knew. I was talking about with open differentials. The only way to control left/right torque split at that point is by inducing a load on the spinning wheels via breaking.
I'm asking because it seems reasonable to assume that in an effort improve stability...traction control applies braking to individual wheels with more spin than others....thereby inducing a load on the wheel. Power then, by default, finds "it's" way to the other wheels since the formerly spinning wheels are now have a load on them. So, individual wheel control is key and is almost a by-product of traction control. AWD systems only control front and rear diff torque distribution...correct?
@yngvaigilbsteen That is correct. For Subaru, VDC is integrated with the AWD. It's not slapped on top of it. Some manufacturers, like Volvo, have systems that are not fully integrated. A Volvo has to disengage AWD to engage ABS. Subaru uses steering, braking, accelerator, and individual wheel sensors to ensure that the vehicle is going in the direction where the steering wheel is pointed. It can do this by braking on individual wheels and managing engine output.
@SoDaSub Also, some systems do not have 4 sensors and 4 channels from the wheels to the computer. Some vehicles use individual sensors for the 2 front wheels, but both rear wheels are controlled as one. This is very common for FWD vehicles and AWD vehicles that are based on FWD vehicles.
@SoDaSub it is not common to see 3 channel away from a rwd (they used to read the rear wheel speed at the crown in the diff. fwd have no common moving component from left to right on the rear axle so 4 sensors are always used (when abs and trac are equipped), there may be some awd with 3 sensors but i've never seen it in use. some fwds did use one channel to the rear but thats gone by the wayside ages ago)
@SoDaSub If I'm correct on the former, then I believe I am thinking correctly on the latter. It took me a while to figure out why anyone would bother to integrate a VDC system into an awd system that already "took care" of everything and could "route" power to individual wheels. The answer is that the symmetrical AWD drive system doesn't "take care" of everything. Only front and rear distribution. You need VDC if you want to simulate everything in this video.
@yngvaigilbsteen Correct, unless you have a WRX STI or were climbing on a rear wheel with with an older LSD equipped Subaru. The benefit of VDC is that it will sense and preform the job quicker than an LSD which is why they were removed from the vehicles.
I like subaru and own one, but I have to say that I do think their advertising is a bit misleading in some instances. They don't directly say in this video one wheel traction is a go ONLY if you purchase their upper line models with vdc...which their base models don't have. They also have three different types of awd systems...some with limited slip and some without. Not all awd systems are created equal. ; )
@yngvaigilbsteen This isn't advertising. It was a recap for event attendees. Since 2008, all Subarus come equipped with VDC. One of my new videos depict Subaru's basic Active Symmetrical AWD climbing on one wheel without a limited slip differential. Currently, only the WRX STI comes with non open front and/or rear differentials.
@SoDaSub Cool. I will check out your other vids then. The info out there, like any other industry, is different depending on who you talk to. Of all the research I've done. The single wheel thing seems to be a traction control/vdc thing. Does this mean that my 2008 base model impreza sedan has vdc? I don't have the button that allows me to turn traction control on/off. What exactly is the difference between vdc and traction control? In short, would my base impreza climb with one wheel?
@yngvaigilbsteen Yes, it would depending on how much traction the wheel had, how much weight is in the car, and how steep the incline is. Subaru's Vehicle Dynamics Control is Traction and Stability Control. I should have clarified "2008" the 2009 Models came out in calendar year 2008. All 2009 Model Year Subarus onward(except the 2009 Legacy GT 5MT) have VDC. 2008 Model Year Impreza had it on every model except the most basic model. You may not have on your Impreza if it's not a premium.
@SoDaSub Also, If my base model WOULD climb...what's going on in these other vids where these guys are teetering over a ditch with only two wheels making contact in a diagonal pattern, (front driver and rear passenger for example) and not being able to move? I have my theory on that and it seems to make sense, but your telling me that that is not an issue of having vdc or not?
@SoDaSub Understood that my vehicle would climb depending on weight...how much traction the other three had had etc. I'm assuming you're referring to a situation in which my other three tires had very little, but still some traction and one wheel gripping well. I'm talking about an instance in which my three tires would be on ice (virtually no grip at all...with only one gripping well. Like the simulation with the roller test here. That's not a VDC thing?
@SoDaSub There's plenty of vids on here with subarus getting out of unbelievable situations...but there are a few on youtube in which the diagonal traction becomes a problem and the behave like a standard 4wd with open diffs. e.g. "forester diagonal test" There are also others under the related vids. Also, vids in which people are directly comparing climbing with...and without VDC. Turning VDC off seems to be advantageous when momentum is needed.
@yngvaigilbsteen can you point out which ones by the title and who posted? All of the ones I pulled up showed the Forester completing the test. Turning VDC off is is necessary in some situations. If a vehicle is stuck in mud or deep snow, VDC should be turned off in order to rock the vehicle out. If all the wheels are slipping, there is no traction, and VDC will bog all of the wheels down.
this description of torque steer caused by asymetrical layout is flawed, its mostly caused by inconsistancies in the contact patch of a tire (relating to the projected SAI angle) it should not matter which wheel you give traction too, it will work for either or neither. (even a subaru has a slightly longer shaft on one side than the other) the difference is the style of center differential, limited slip present or not, and the front to rear tranfer available (50/50, 60-40, 40-60, ect.)
@lostnumbr You pulled that straight from wikipedia. You should have read down a little more: "Root causes for torque steer are:
Incorrect sidewall ply design allowing deformation of the tire sidewall. Assymmetric driveshaft angles due to any combination of Unequal driveshaft length or diameter Transient movement of the engine Different driveshaft torques left to right (due to wheel bearing or differential problems) Suspension geometry tolerances
@SoDaSub actually i didn't, i learned this in school my SSB prof, year 2 of my AST courses. you can experience torque-steer in a brand new symetrical AWD car, and none of your above mentioned issues are present in such a case, but as an example there is a crack filled in the road under one front tire and it's sitting on one side of the contact patch giving less traction to one side of the projected steering axis point.
@lostnumbr It's straight from wikipedia. Unequal length driveshafts can and do cause torque steer (as also stated on wikipedia), and that is the case here. You're example is true, but this is case of both front wheels not having traction which shows power reaching the end of the shortest shaft first.
@SoDaSub lol i do not need to go to wiki to understand torque steer, besides the fact that wiki is rarely exactly correct. the length of the shaft has nothing to do with which wheel spins first or more causing the car to move to either side with 0 traction, this is caused by the weight distribution of the vehicle (of which transverse engine mounting is very uneven, where symetrical awd is well balanced). its possible what is being experienced here is the traction control using the abs pumps
@lostnumbr The length of the shaft has everything to do with what's being seen here. Power reaches the short side first causing the torque steer. Because the front wheels have no traction, this effect is more pronounced than what you'd see on dry asphalt. The TCS then tries to reign it in by cutting the power. Once it's reigned in, the power is once again applied, and the process starts all over again. This would not happen repeatedly if the front wheels had traction.
@SoDaSub it has nothing to do with time, the torque reaches the end of the shaft at the same time (the shafts dont twist or deflect at all...especially with 0 friction on both) for example my old 94 cavalier would spin either tire when both were wet (unequal length shafts) if your theory was correct would it not always spin the shorter side? another example, my 99 impreza (equal length and awd) and i can still experience torque steer from 1 tire partly on a crack filled with tar
@lostnumbr ofcourse it does. On a wet street, there is some traction. One wheel may have more traction than the other. If both wheels are on a surface with no traction. The shorter shaft will always slip. What you are experiencing in your 99 impreza is totally different than what's happening in this situation. You can start a fire with dry sticks rubbed together, a lighter, lightening, or a magnifying glass. We are talking about torque steer created by a lighter and not by a magnifying glass.
@SoDaSub not always, usually the lighter side of the car will slip first, depending on which side the engine is mounted (usually the passenger side) that is the heavier side, hence the left side will slip fist. similarly to a rwd slipping the right side first due to the torque of the prop shaft lifting the weight off the right side of the vehicle slightly. (unless your axles are twisting, torque is transferred instantly)
@lostnumbr Your 99 Impreza example would be from one wheel not having traction due to the environment. It's very different from an Accord V6 always lurching to the right due to power and its transversely mounted engine.
I like how the vehicle has to 'assess the situation' instead of the driver doing so. The more responsibility you take from the person and give to the vehicle, the more fucked someone is going to be if there is ever a problem. Put someone with some common sense in a 4WD K5 Blazer made in the 1970s and watch it go twice as many places as ALL of these pansy vehicles. Shit like this just caters to idiots.
@anasasisxenophontis You are comparing 4WD to AWD. This is a comparison of AWD only. Even the worst of these vehicles would embarass a 4WD K5 Blazer in driving dynamics, safety, reliability, comfort, and fuel economy. None of these vehicles, including the Subaru, are hardcore offroaders and are not being compared to them either.
@SoDaSub It's also a comparison of traction capabilities only. The video makes no mention of driving dynamics, safety, reliability, comfort, or fuel economy. FWIW, K5 Blazers in the 70s were full-time 4WD.
@anasasisxenophontis The K5 Blazer had a completely reactive 4WD system when not in locked mode. Unless locked, its traction abilities would be far less capable than Subaru's current systems. It would not be able to climb one front wheel with all of the other wheels without traction. It would also not be as capable on the road for rearranging torque as it requires slip before engaging. For offroading, the blazer has a locking diff, low range, a more robust rear diff, and better A and D angles.
@SoDaSub The reactive 4WD system is simply a differential in the NP203 transfer case. All of these vehicles require slip before engaging, whereas the NP203 has the option of full lockup to deliver a constant amount of torque to each axle. Regardless, my argument remains the same; the more responsibility you take from the driver and give to the vehicle, the more fucked someone is going to be if they get into trouble. Again, this design caters to idiots.
@anasasisxenophontis None of Subaru's systems require slip before engaging. They are AWD all of the time. Even the 80/20 split FWD biased Active AWD system moves torque around based on steering, throttle, and braking inputs. 80/20 would be the split when cruising and without accelerating. The point is, if you're going to buy an AWD vehicle, you might as well buy one with an AWD that actually works.
@SoDaSub As a control systems engineer, it is my job to design things like this. Given the option, I would take my K5 over a Subaru on an icy road. The traction management system relies on a system of inputs and predictive capabilities to produce outputs. Despite the complexities, the system can never match a human's intuition or common sense. Granted the person must have common sense, so I would not expect an idiot to be able to handle driving a stone age vehicle like a K5 Blazer.
@anasasisxenophontis You may be a better driver than most. There are many out there that do not have your capabilities and you are not able to control their capabilities. It's probably safer for you for them to be in vehicles capable of keeping them out of accidents. I've lived in areas where some vehicles had to sit on the street because they couldn't make it up the driveway.
@SoDaSub Touche.. I will keep my old school stuff that takes a little more thinking but works well :) I lived in Montana for several years with a long wheelbase 2WD truck with a mechanical locker and never got stuck once. A little bit of ability from the vehicle and a little driving skill goes a long way. I can only hope that people practice their driving skills...especially with winter approaching and already here in places like NY.
@SoDaSub Subaru's VDC works with the driver, not against him/her. It is designed to keep the car going where the steering wheel is pointed, not just to cut power and create an understeer condition.
I have a 4th gen Outback with a CVT transmission. Can anyone explain the pros and cons of AWD coupled with a CVT? My experience with it in ice and snow is that it's very surefooted and just plain fun to drive in those conditions. Would like to know more about if possible.
Interesting tests. I love my Honda Element's AWD, it has kicked in and helped a lot over the years on trips. Although I would LOVE to have full time 4WD I have no need living in southern California, get the system/car depending on your actual need. I got my car for outings, best CAR for camping, easy cleaning too. I've gone through rain, mud (little), snow, dirt, gravel and whatever else, hasn't failed yet. As with everything, just understand your limitations before going forward.
Subaru has 4 different drivetrains. (stick:50/50 bevel, 41/59 planetary. auto:45/55 double planetary, 100/0 clutch system)
Only with manual transmissions could one use use the marketing term 'symmetric', because the automatic transmissions do not have the front differential located directly in the centerline of the vehicle.
99.99% or so, of Subaru's have an open front differential (WRX STi does not)
What percent use a viscous coupling clutch or torsen* on the rear differential? 50% or so?
@SparkDischarge Your info is a little off for USDM Front/Rear Torque split... Non STI manual transmissions are 50/50. All of the vehicles using the 5EAT and the 2002-2007 4EAT WRX's use a 45/55 split. The 2004 - 2005 WRX STI were 35/65 and the 2006 on use 41/59. All of the other 4EAT and CVT transmission vehicles were 90/10 static and are now 80/20 static. Every vehicle is symmetric because the center diff is centrally located as part of the transmission casing.
@SparkDischarge Splitting the vehicle down the center yields a perfectly symmetrical left and right drivetrain. Do a google image search for "Subaru Drivetrain" and you can see any number of pictures depicting the symmetrical layout. Only the WRX STI has a non open rear differential for current Subaru models.
@SoDaSub Subaru's with automatic transmissions are not symmetrical.
The front differential is not located on the vehicles' centerline. Subaru tried as hard as they could.
Has Subaru really fallen that far? Subaru used to offer viscous coupling clutches or a torsen (or equivalent) on the rear differential on nearly all of their vehicles.
Since Subaru's are still substantially front heavy, having something besides an open front differential isn't that critical. (and you can get a front Quaife)
@SparkDischarge You should check out an exploded view of the automatic transmission. It is located EXACTLYon the centerline. Subaru's VDC system reacts quicker than a LSD. In addition to that, it can run every parameter of controlling the power split through the ECU. The downside is for track use, it will contribute to brake fade. VDC allows all new Subarus to do what all none STI vehicles couldn't do, control left and right power split on the front wheels.
@SparkDischarge Also, all of the Subaru vehicles are constantly varying torque front and back. The CVT and Auto transmissions vary torque split based on throttle, braking, and steering in addition to wheel slippage. Even the 80/20 clutch system will constantly and automatically vary power appropriation for simple things as taking off from a stoplight, braking downhill, or making a right hand turn. Static torque splits are given for cruising purposes.
The test is ok but if you went through all the trouble to set up this demonstration, why didn't you get a better camera angle so you can also show what the back wheels are doing?
@chlarock The people this video was meant for were actually there and could see the entire vehicle. It was meant as a recap for the attendees.There's an independently conducted version in my other videos
Should have guessed it was a subaru advert with all the bs about symmetry the cars were rocking because the traction control was swapping power from left to right and vw only claim the passat will move NOT climb with one wheel epic FAIL
@tomnwoo The left to right movement is torque steer. The traction control isn't swapping power left and right, it's reigning in the torque steer that is more visible because the wheels are "on ice." The Subaru Legacy doesn't do this because the drivetrain is symmetrical and the drive shafts axle shafts are of equal length. I have a video of an independently done test which shows other vehicles doing the same thing.
@80spodcastchannel The Forester in this video did not come with VDC (traction & stability control and the time) The Legacy GT in this video did have VDC and it was on for this test.
@SoDaSub Dude...it is also a dedicated all wheel drive full time and the MPG suffers..
dont get me wrong..I LIKE Subaru's...I just prefer hondas. for a cute ute, the real time AWD honda uses works pretty excellent, you DO need to be a bit more aggressive, and disable the DSC for the rough stuff, but it works ok.
@80spodcastchannel Subaru has really improved MPG in recent years. As you stated, Subaru's are fulltime AWD unlike most AWD vehicles. The Outback gets 29 mpg and is the most full efficient AWD non-hybrid SUV at 29 mpg. The Legacy is 31 mpg and at the time of its introduction, was more than most 2WD Midsize sedans. It's now on par with its 2WD competition. The Impreza is now 36 mpg hwy and is the most fuel efficient AWD vehicle. The Forester is on par or better than its peers.
@80spodcastchannel The CR-V has one of the worst AWD systems in the segment. Check out the video Subaru versus your car part 2. The CRV has traction and stability off to free itself from being stuck in the snow and is not able to free itself.
@SoDaSub I never got stuck...REAL WORLD driving. lab tests are one thing and we were spaking of TWO specific vehicles, honda blows ANY model away if you want to compare street car MPG with the VX 50+MPG
and the HF 57+MPG civics. since your ALSO seeking valiadation and arguments.. I'm out.
you like subaru's and I like hondas..that's why they build both.
@80spodcastchannel As you can see in this video (laboratory) and in the video I directed you towards (real world) it's more likely for the CRV to have issues with power transfer and traction. You may never have gotten stuck, but the CR-V in the video sure did. It's a matter of fact that the CRV uses an inferior AWD system. Regarding fuel economy, Honda's AWD vehicles were less fuel efficient until the past two years. Now they are 1 mpg in either direction.
@SoDaSub YOUR NOT GOING TO CONVINCE ME OF ANYTHING FROM A SUBARU BASED VIDEO, VERSUS PERSONAL EXPERIENCES/REAL WORLD DRIVING IN SEVERE CONDITIONS.
NOW, SINCE I AM USING LARGE FONT AND SPEAKING WITH SMALL WORDS...
TAKE THIS EXCHANGE FOR WHAT YOU WILL. I AM NOT GOING TO SUDDENLY GO 'OH HELL' AND SELL A PERFECTLY GOOD VEHICLE FOR YOUR(!!) NEED TO FEEL SELF ANOINTED IN THE HALLOWED HALLS OF SUBARU SALESMEN,SWITCHING HONDA OWNERS. MY WIFE AND I OWN 4 HONDAS.. SEE A TREND? NONE OF THEM ARE SUBARU'S?
@80spodcastchannel It's your own ignorance and your own money. Do as you wish. Being blindly loyal just lines the pockets of those companies that don't have to try harder.
@SoDaSub and being an unpaid barely closeted shill who's so uber gay for SUBARU. you are now a borderline whiny baby means your working for even less money, with sincere deluded ignorance of the facts of life and freedom of choice. just because you really want to give birth to Subaru's love child, does NOT mean everyone is as mono maniacally driven for a bloody car as you are. get a grip on reality and better yet, get a life, stop trolling other people who dont buy YOUR choice of "best of".
@80spodcastchannel lol. This is sad. I thought we were debating AWD? You are getting mad over a car discussion. Seriously? Take a test drive in a Subaru... you just might like it.
@SoDaSub I just did.... I drove my wife's coworker's TRIBECA...I never said I dont like subaru's so stop putting your opinions in my mouth. you are using specious and arbitrary arguments,to further your OWN ends,then jumping vehicles to make subaru's look better.get over yourself, hawking a specific brand. I prefer my own choices, you dont get to determine MY choices,understand that? now,go back to playing internet car salesman. lastly,keep pissing off potential buyers,they wont buy subaru's
@80spodcastchannel It's OK to agree to disagree, but lets not be foolish. If you can't have a friendly and objective argument without taking it personally, please don't comment. I would not consider you a potential buyer of anything other than Hondas. You've made that clear.
I think my Toyata Tacoma pick up trunk, in 4 wheel drive, would have passed all tests ? Of course, it would have failed the "all four on ice test" but not the others - am I correct ?
@patbasanese It's called torque steer. The VW has a transversely mounted engine and transmission. As the traction and stability control turns on and off, it causes the wheels and thus the steering wheel to jerk to one side. This is more pronounced on the rollers due to the reduced traction on 3 wheels. The driver is reigning it in to stay on the platform.
Subaru claims the best AWD system yet didn't test other brands that claim the same...i.e. Audi Quattro, Mitsubishi (Evo), Acura SH-AWD, Mercedes 4matic or Volvo AWD. Also, comparing lower end "4wd" Honda's and Toyota's is price biased and mechanical/tech biased. Apples and Oranges. Granted it is produced by Subaru for Subaru. Oh well. I love Subaru and always will but I would like to see a true comparison between ALL brands who make true AWD systems and not just part time FWD biased AWD.
@Imaginarychild43 Why did you choose to make up the "best" claim. Mercedes 4matic and Volvo's Haldex definitely don't deserve to be on the list of the best. All of the above, with the exception of the EVO don't even make systems comparable to that in the WRX STI. If Subaru were really going there, these videos would have been the STI vs. everything under the sun. It didn't even get a mention.
Depends on which Subaru you're looking at. The Impreza is far and away the best value under $20k, but the nicely equipped Outback, Tribeca, and Legacy are a bit pricey for what they are.
he said the honda company doesnt give the public any info on their awd, why would they do that if their awd sucks so much no one wants to see their ideas, SUBARU should not let people know but they still do
@enjoi389 Customers are more informed these days. If you have something that's not great and you provide information that allows for customers to see that fact for themselves, you are possibly shooting yourself in the foot. Subaru has a great system and wants to promoite it. The technology could be duplicated, but a company isn't going to spend the money when the buying public thinks that AWD is AWD and doesn't know the differences.
Very good test, Subaru's system is just the best out there hands down, I've owned nothing but Subaru's and love trying to get them stuck in the winter. You can run them with summer tires in the winter and be fine, with winter tires they are overkill.
Summer tires on a Subaru in real winter conditions is still a fail. It might not get stuck unless it's in real deep snow, but it's at a disadvantage with braking. The difference in stopping distances in any car with summer tires on snow/ice vs winter tires can be very substantial. I don't like ending up in ditches or hitting other cars.
Good test, but I'd like to see some other scenarios besides requiring torque/traction going uphill. I'd like to see braking while losing traction downhill to see if the car can stop in a straight line. I'd also like to see traction loss on one or more tires on a flat surface, or around a turn, to see if the car can keep on course and if the driver can maintain control.
@polaris911 For your last request, check out "2011 Subaru Traction/Stability Control and Symmetrical AWD vs. Nissan, Honda, Toyota, and Ford" in my videos.
Dead wrong, Passats from 2006 onwards have a Haldex based AWD system (it doesn't fire until a front tire loses traction) which is inferior to Subaru's Symmetrical AWD or Audi's Quattro system which has a Torsen center differential.
@Solumic Lamborghini still has no racing heritage, before VW ownership or after. Typing in all caps is an internet no no... especially on an unqualified statement.
Honda's 'SHAWD' is the most pathetic pile of crap I've ever seen. Honda AWD can send approx 10% of the total engine torque to the rear wheels. The rear differential is tiny. The drive shaft is the size of a Subaru rear axle. Get a life.
07 VW Passat. They made the claim that the car will "move" even if only one wheel has traction. I see the vehicle moving. They also never stated that it would move on an incline. Redo the test on flat ground, and VW's marketing team will be proven quite clever. Consumers need to use their brains. Didn't any of you take English courses in college?
@SoDaSub I'm not making excuses. I'm just stating that the VW marketing team just made a clever statement. The only misleading thing is your brain, which lead you to believe that VWs statement referred to an incline. If you were smart, you would ignore ALL claims by any corporation, company, etc that stand to profit from your purchase. Including Subaru.
@syalcin123 Do you know how SHAWD works? Please explain in detail and you will see that the statement you proclaimed is false. Are you also aware that SHAWD is not the same for every Acura that carries the badge? Even so, Acura isn't Subaru's true competition.
@SoDaSub Yes I know how it works but I won't explain since if you are subarus spokeperson, you should already know it. SHAWD is upgraded in 2010 for TL and RL and similar on SUV. Acura is a luxury model and surely not Subarus competitor.
@syalcin123 Please explain for all of the viewers here. And yes... it's a trap. No, Acura is not Subaru's competitor. Infiniti, Audi, BMW, Lexus, and Mercedes are... and Acura does a great job with reliability but a poor job matching the offerings of its competitors. Declining sales since 2005 seem to prove that.
@SoDaSub Your a fucking idiot. And obviously don't pay attention to formula 1 or indy. Which are the most prestigious races in the world. Which includes the best car makers in the world such as Honda, Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault, Lotus and so on. You have never and will never see Subaru's name up with those names. They are surely not competitors with honda. Honda powers the entire 33 car line up of Indy racing and have for years, without one engine failure. Honda was also formula one. Subaru junk
@Solumic watch your language or get blocked. If you can't argue objectively, don't argue at all. Feel free to tell Lamborghini that they are junk because they aren't in any racing circuits. Subaru actually uses the same engine found in their rally cars in their actual passenger cars. Honda doesn't sell a single sports car. This is a still a discussion about AWD. The fact remains that Subaru's AWD is vastly superior to what Honda offers.
BS test. You cant even see the back wheels. This is an ad against honda. I have real time 4wd and i plow through the snow and ice! I live in the fucking rocky mountains, i have tried finding hills that i cant make it up.
@Solumic Not a BS test. The video was a recap for people that were actually there and could see the entire vehicles. It was never meant for public consumption. Anyone with any knowledge of mechanics and AWD can tell you that the system in the CR-V is inferior to many of the AWD systems offered by other companies, not just Subaru's.
@SoDaSub actually a quick youtube search yields several videos of CR-V's either stuck or not able to plow through snow. You can even see the front wheels turn and the rears not turning on CR-V's that are supposedly 4WD.
@Solumic No not a BS test. look at this subaru.com/weather/index.html (go to this and click on learn about Subaru symmetrical all-wheel drive). It shows an INDEPENDENT TEST that was done and Subaru wins. These results are certified as INDEPENDENT WITH NO SLANTING. there you go. Subaru wins with 40 years of experience in AWD.
@Loscaldazar Honda doesn't even have an all wheel drive system. It's a 4wd system made to prove it's self in the real world. Not on some stupid roller ramp, that you cant even see if this is a 4wd or 2wd version because they don't show the back tires. It also doesn't state whether or not the Crv's VSA is on or off which blurs the results. That of which they did on purpose. I never said anything bad about Subaru's awd system. They are good at what they do. So chill out Boxer.
These were the tests i was referring to.Watch them they are independent tests and show that Subaru wins.In an independent test it's not the car company that is doing the testing so no slanting.You did say that they were all inferior to honda's and i'm arguing that Subaru's are superior. The Symmetrical AWD has been proven in rally racing and by driving it in terrible weather.Where has the CRV been proven?
@Loscaldazar If you were making true statements i would at least keep debating with you. But you are now bringing things into this conversation that weren't said. I never once said that they are all inferior to honda's. But Honda's are superior, which is why they have the reputation they have for reliability. And the CRV is not a rally car. I have driven the new sti and compared it to the TL i have driven and the NSX i have driven.. You wanna talk real all wheel drive, drive any new SH Acura.
Honda's system isn't really even a 4wd system. If it can only send 5-10% of what little torque it has to the rear wheels, it's a FWD for all intents and purposes.
A part time 4wd as found in most trucks beats the shit out of honda's system and works pretty-damned well for 65 year old tech.
@fubecabr really? then tell me how a 2006 CR-V mired in two FEET of loose powder snow pulls FORWARDS, AND backwards,with"only 5-10% of what little"bit of 156 HP and 160 lb-ft of torque, which is 14 less HP and 65% of the SAME Torque as a FORD 300 straight six budrow.
the ford which has (170 hp Torque 260 lb·ft) in a BIG cast block with TWICE the displacement. so dont start dogging Honda's K 2.4, it's a great motor for a sport ute.her truck will crack 25MPG on trips. and has NEVER broken down.
CR-V has the shittiest AWD system on the planet, period. For all practical purposes, it's a FWD vehicle. I really doubt you could get a CR-V moving in TWO FEET Of snow. My big diesel 4x4 with snow tires would get stuck in that.
The Honda K is an awesome motor for certain applications but it can't be compared to a 45 year old truck motor. Apples and oranges.
@dtemplar Not all models and model years were capable of doing this. all vehicles since the 2009 Model year are capable. It depends on models prior if they were equipped with Vehicle Dynamics Control or not. Some could not climb on any one wheel. Some equipped with Limited Slip Differentials could climb on on rear wheel but not one front wheel. Some could even without VDC (STI).
@SoDaSub What about a 2008 Subaru Tribeca woth 3.6L H boxer? Is it capable of doung what the Legacy did? As far as I know, the Tribeca does have symmetrical AWD, VDC and VTD... but I'm not sure if it has LSD?
@tos3rd Yes... as long as the VDC is turned on. The VDC acts like an LSD and brakes on the slipping wheel. This forces power to the side that has traction. VDC monitors wheel spin for each wheel and can brake on them individually.
Respond to this video... They both still wouldn't climb. Traction control was left on for the purpose of the video. Other vehicles and scenarios were also tested, but not everything made the video.
For sure my next vehicle is going to be a Subaru. My piece of shit Toyota Corolla gets stuck so easily even with Blizzak winter tires. "active" traction control is a huge scam; all it does is cut the power. There's just no replacement for a good limited slip or locking differential.
Very interesting video! Could someone explain the point about the Passat having an asymmetric drivetrain and the ensuing torque steer beeing the reason why it cant climb on 1 wheel? From my point of view this doesn't make much sense as the torque distribution should be based on wheel speed sensor outputs?
Sorry but this video is quite useless. You'd have to be a moron to buy any of these if you intend to do any amount of serious off-roading.
These systems are designed to improve grip in slippery driving conditions, not pull cars up an incline from a standstill with only one wheel under traction. Anything more than gravel would deem most of these cars useless. Except for the CRV, which is useless at all times.
Kudos to Subaru, but everyone knows their AWD sytem is brilliant. Always has been.
@enigmaj316 Subaru's system doesn't require you to be in motion. That's kind of the point... to show not all AWD systems are created equal. Some of these systems with a running start on the hill incline failed there as well.
@SoDaSub Granted, but my point is that AWD isn't designed for off-roading or even hill-climbing.
It is designed for traction through cornering, and some sort of test showing how they differ in that area would be much more telling. While I conceed subaru AWD is the best, how well they do under conditions they weren't designed is a bit of a moot point.
@enigmaj316 This isn't a hill climb, it's an incline with compromised traction. Something that wouldn't be uncommon to find in a driveway during the winter. Considering most of these vehicles don't have Limited Slip Differentials or traction control systems capable of acting as an LSD, They are supposedly designed for moving power away from traction compromised wheels. Honda advertises the CRV as a 4x4.
Cornering is more a function of chassis, weight distribution, and suspension tuning.
@vibhavparker Lol.That is why the Forester has better AWD, higher resale value, highest customer loyalty (people are more likely to buy a 2nd forester than buying a 2nd RAV-4 or CRV), and considered one of the most reliable cars, consumer reports has the forester ranked 1,2 and 5 (different trims) out of it's competitors, motor trends 2009 SUV of the year, 5star crash test rating from multiple Govs and IIHS top safety pick.And that's not all.Let me know when either of those has that many awards.
@Solumic Subaru is one of the top brands for reliability. It is also a Japanese product and not a domestic. Regarding your false, blanket statement... Clutches are wear items. They will die on every car eventually.
Clutches can wear, but the speed at which they wear can vary greatly. People have reported cars with factory installed clutches lasting 300,000 miles. I've also replaced a clutch in a car with very low mileage. Clutches in differentials, however, require special additives or they will burn up, and Toyota loved doing this (shipping clutch LSD's with no additives).
Those who kill their clutches early are launching their cars at high RPM's.Saying Subaru's are domestic shows you knowledge on this subject. On the last page you actually said "they are all inferior to Honda's". And i asked were has the CRV been proven, not F1 cars that the general public never drives but in real life. Rally America is done using a 305hp STi that has upgrades to suspensions and a roll cage. Haven't seen a honda remotely close to a F1 car that you can buy.
@Solumic Calling me ignorant for saying i didn't know about how good the forester was stupid, as you just said that Subaru is Domestic.Not only that but i realize you have given no comments about those videos i told you to watch.Subaru Wins :).And yes honda's are reliable but Subaru's are equally so.You also say compare it to Acura's SH-AWD.When did Subaru become a luxury car manufacture?You can't compare premium cars to luxury, that's like comparing Fast food to a Wolfgang Puck restaurant.
they are owned by the same people but they are different companies. Acura is still luxury and therefore not in this conversation. Subaru Symmetrical AWD > Honda Realtime 4WD
Whether or not VW claims that it was on a flat surface or an incline, the Subaru still managed to do it when the VW couldn't, showing that a Subaru has a better designed AWD system.
I moved from the Chicago area to a small town in South Dakota and traded in my '02 Impala LS for an '05 Baja Turbo, given how much more snow SD gets and how much colder the temps are (they only use sand because salt is ineffective). It seems to snow 4 - 8 inches every weekend since November, and every weekend I take my Baja out for a joy ride before the plows get to work. It's so nice to have a car I can get into after some big snow without worry !
Subaru's AWD is better than most other low cost systems. SH-AWD should be able to climb because the diff is capable of actually locking the front and rear wheels together, much like X-Drive does. Notice how Subaru did not use a manual transmission vehicle to test. It would have likely preformed like the CR-V and Highlander since the center diff can not lock completely to pull the vehicle up the ramp.
If the programming of the traction/stability control was more aggressive with brake application, all of the vehicles should have been able to climb the ramps, although maybe not very smoothly.
subi pwns...it always will. No USA car can compare, in fact I searched today and there's not one car the big 3 produces with AWD! There are some special edition taurus' and other random cars, but nothing even mildly produced.
wakeupandbord 2 weeks ago
Hey guys, would be great to have an update with more recent vehicles.
MrSixOh 2 weeks ago
@MrSixOh Check my videos for 2011 vehicles
SoDaSub 2 weeks ago
@SoDaSub Well what do you know! :-) Thanks! These are great btw!
MrSixOh 2 weeks ago
subaru awd is pretty much the best on the market. Too bad their cars look so awkward, but they are getting better.
pcmr57 3 weeks ago
i will say this makes me wanna buy a subaru but is there any chance that this was paid for by subaru? i mean it would be kinda hard to fake this but it could happen and im not doubting the people on here but my physics teacher says always look and be weary of biased in anything
duelblade7 3 weeks ago
@duelblade7 This test was performed and paid for by Subaru. There is an independently certified version in my videos.
SoDaSub 3 weeks ago
Can you test a Nissan GTR 35? :)
TheLaimer 1 month ago
Comment removed
VWpanic1 2 months ago
I notice this video doesn't simulate 3 wheels on ice and only one wheel making traction with the 2008 Forester. They don't mention it having VDC. I'm betting that's the reason. They wait to do that test with the Legacy with VTD/VDC and limited slip rear. Stating that it is the drive train most like the VW. Again, if I'm wrong...please explain. I would love to know that my car would climb with only one wheel making traction.
yngvaigilbsteen 2 months ago
@yngvaigilbsteen The 2008 Forester without an Limited Slip Differential would not have been able to climb on one wheel at all. A 2008 Forester XT with no VDC and an LSD could climb, but only on one rear wheel. A vehicle with VDC can climb on any one wheel, depending on weight, incline/decline, and the traction of one wheel.
SoDaSub 2 months ago
The only way for an awd system to really control individual wheel spin is through a breaking process provided by a traction control computer. Correct? If I'm wrong, please explain. And if so...how DOES subarus awd system route power to just one wheel?
yngvaigilbsteen 2 months ago
@yngvaigilbsteen No. left and right torque split can happen through the use of non open differentials on the front and rear axles. Some previous Subarus had rear limited slip differentials. They could transfer power left and right on the rear, but had open front diffs. The WRX STI has a mechanical front and a Torsen rear differential. It can transfer power left and right on the front and rear wheels without VDC.
SoDaSub 2 months ago
@SoDaSub That much I knew. I was talking about with open differentials. The only way to control left/right torque split at that point is by inducing a load on the spinning wheels via breaking.
yngvaigilbsteen 2 months ago
@yngvaigilbsteen correct
SoDaSub 2 months ago
I'm asking because it seems reasonable to assume that in an effort improve stability...traction control applies braking to individual wheels with more spin than others....thereby inducing a load on the wheel. Power then, by default, finds "it's" way to the other wheels since the formerly spinning wheels are now have a load on them. So, individual wheel control is key and is almost a by-product of traction control. AWD systems only control front and rear diff torque distribution...correct?
yngvaigilbsteen 2 months ago
@yngvaigilbsteen That is correct. For Subaru, VDC is integrated with the AWD. It's not slapped on top of it. Some manufacturers, like Volvo, have systems that are not fully integrated. A Volvo has to disengage AWD to engage ABS. Subaru uses steering, braking, accelerator, and individual wheel sensors to ensure that the vehicle is going in the direction where the steering wheel is pointed. It can do this by braking on individual wheels and managing engine output.
SoDaSub 2 months ago
@SoDaSub Also, some systems do not have 4 sensors and 4 channels from the wheels to the computer. Some vehicles use individual sensors for the 2 front wheels, but both rear wheels are controlled as one. This is very common for FWD vehicles and AWD vehicles that are based on FWD vehicles.
SoDaSub 2 months ago
@SoDaSub it is not common to see 3 channel away from a rwd (they used to read the rear wheel speed at the crown in the diff. fwd have no common moving component from left to right on the rear axle so 4 sensors are always used (when abs and trac are equipped), there may be some awd with 3 sensors but i've never seen it in use. some fwds did use one channel to the rear but thats gone by the wayside ages ago)
lostnumbr 2 months ago
@SoDaSub If I'm correct on the former, then I believe I am thinking correctly on the latter. It took me a while to figure out why anyone would bother to integrate a VDC system into an awd system that already "took care" of everything and could "route" power to individual wheels. The answer is that the symmetrical AWD drive system doesn't "take care" of everything. Only front and rear distribution. You need VDC if you want to simulate everything in this video.
yngvaigilbsteen 2 months ago
@yngvaigilbsteen Correct, unless you have a WRX STI or were climbing on a rear wheel with with an older LSD equipped Subaru. The benefit of VDC is that it will sense and preform the job quicker than an LSD which is why they were removed from the vehicles.
SoDaSub 2 months ago
@SoDaSub BTW, where are your videos with base models climbing with one wheel?
yngvaigilbsteen 2 months ago
@yngvaigilbsteen 2011 Subaru Symmetrical AWD vs. Nissan, Honda, Toyota, and Ford
SoDaSub 2 months ago
I like subaru and own one, but I have to say that I do think their advertising is a bit misleading in some instances. They don't directly say in this video one wheel traction is a go ONLY if you purchase their upper line models with vdc...which their base models don't have. They also have three different types of awd systems...some with limited slip and some without. Not all awd systems are created equal. ; )
yngvaigilbsteen 2 months ago
@yngvaigilbsteen This isn't advertising. It was a recap for event attendees. Since 2008, all Subarus come equipped with VDC. One of my new videos depict Subaru's basic Active Symmetrical AWD climbing on one wheel without a limited slip differential. Currently, only the WRX STI comes with non open front and/or rear differentials.
SoDaSub 2 months ago
@SoDaSub Cool. I will check out your other vids then. The info out there, like any other industry, is different depending on who you talk to. Of all the research I've done. The single wheel thing seems to be a traction control/vdc thing. Does this mean that my 2008 base model impreza sedan has vdc? I don't have the button that allows me to turn traction control on/off. What exactly is the difference between vdc and traction control? In short, would my base impreza climb with one wheel?
yngvaigilbsteen 2 months ago
@yngvaigilbsteen Yes, it would depending on how much traction the wheel had, how much weight is in the car, and how steep the incline is. Subaru's Vehicle Dynamics Control is Traction and Stability Control. I should have clarified "2008" the 2009 Models came out in calendar year 2008. All 2009 Model Year Subarus onward(except the 2009 Legacy GT 5MT) have VDC. 2008 Model Year Impreza had it on every model except the most basic model. You may not have on your Impreza if it's not a premium.
SoDaSub 2 months ago
@SoDaSub Also, If my base model WOULD climb...what's going on in these other vids where these guys are teetering over a ditch with only two wheels making contact in a diagonal pattern, (front driver and rear passenger for example) and not being able to move? I have my theory on that and it seems to make sense, but your telling me that that is not an issue of having vdc or not?
yngvaigilbsteen 2 months ago
@yngvaigilbsteen You'd have to point out the video for me to give an educated opinion.
SoDaSub 2 months ago
@SoDaSub Understood that my vehicle would climb depending on weight...how much traction the other three had had etc. I'm assuming you're referring to a situation in which my other three tires had very little, but still some traction and one wheel gripping well. I'm talking about an instance in which my three tires would be on ice (virtually no grip at all...with only one gripping well. Like the simulation with the roller test here. That's not a VDC thing?
yngvaigilbsteen 2 months ago
@SoDaSub There's plenty of vids on here with subarus getting out of unbelievable situations...but there are a few on youtube in which the diagonal traction becomes a problem and the behave like a standard 4wd with open diffs. e.g. "forester diagonal test" There are also others under the related vids. Also, vids in which people are directly comparing climbing with...and without VDC. Turning VDC off seems to be advantageous when momentum is needed.
yngvaigilbsteen 2 months ago
@yngvaigilbsteen can you point out which ones by the title and who posted? All of the ones I pulled up showed the Forester completing the test. Turning VDC off is is necessary in some situations. If a vehicle is stuck in mud or deep snow, VDC should be turned off in order to rock the vehicle out. If all the wheels are slipping, there is no traction, and VDC will bog all of the wheels down.
SoDaSub 2 months ago
Subaru ЛУЧШАЯ !!!!
MachineheadSTAS 2 months ago
this description of torque steer caused by asymetrical layout is flawed, its mostly caused by inconsistancies in the contact patch of a tire (relating to the projected SAI angle) it should not matter which wheel you give traction too, it will work for either or neither. (even a subaru has a slightly longer shaft on one side than the other) the difference is the style of center differential, limited slip present or not, and the front to rear tranfer available (50/50, 60-40, 40-60, ect.)
lostnumbr 3 months ago
@lostnumbr You pulled that straight from wikipedia. You should have read down a little more: "Root causes for torque steer are:
Incorrect sidewall ply design allowing deformation of the tire sidewall. Assymmetric driveshaft angles due to any combination of Unequal driveshaft length or diameter Transient movement of the engine Different driveshaft torques left to right (due to wheel bearing or differential problems) Suspension geometry tolerances
"
SoDaSub 3 months ago
@SoDaSub actually i didn't, i learned this in school my SSB prof, year 2 of my AST courses. you can experience torque-steer in a brand new symetrical AWD car, and none of your above mentioned issues are present in such a case, but as an example there is a crack filled in the road under one front tire and it's sitting on one side of the contact patch giving less traction to one side of the projected steering axis point.
*the more you know*
lostnumbr 2 months ago
@lostnumbr It's straight from wikipedia. Unequal length driveshafts can and do cause torque steer (as also stated on wikipedia), and that is the case here. You're example is true, but this is case of both front wheels not having traction which shows power reaching the end of the shortest shaft first.
SoDaSub 2 months ago
@SoDaSub Wikipedia is not always correct, i can go on wikipedia now and type michael jacksons favoroite foods was pizza...
zainuintel 2 months ago
@zainuintel what he took was from wikipedia.
SoDaSub 2 months ago
@SoDaSub and no i did not go on wikipedia, if i wanted to check my info i would have just opened my textbook, or notes from school.
lostnumbr 2 months ago
@SoDaSub lol i do not need to go to wiki to understand torque steer, besides the fact that wiki is rarely exactly correct. the length of the shaft has nothing to do with which wheel spins first or more causing the car to move to either side with 0 traction, this is caused by the weight distribution of the vehicle (of which transverse engine mounting is very uneven, where symetrical awd is well balanced). its possible what is being experienced here is the traction control using the abs pumps
lostnumbr 2 months ago
@lostnumbr The length of the shaft has everything to do with what's being seen here. Power reaches the short side first causing the torque steer. Because the front wheels have no traction, this effect is more pronounced than what you'd see on dry asphalt. The TCS then tries to reign it in by cutting the power. Once it's reigned in, the power is once again applied, and the process starts all over again. This would not happen repeatedly if the front wheels had traction.
SoDaSub 2 months ago
@SoDaSub it has nothing to do with time, the torque reaches the end of the shaft at the same time (the shafts dont twist or deflect at all...especially with 0 friction on both) for example my old 94 cavalier would spin either tire when both were wet (unequal length shafts) if your theory was correct would it not always spin the shorter side? another example, my 99 impreza (equal length and awd) and i can still experience torque steer from 1 tire partly on a crack filled with tar
lostnumbr 2 months ago
@lostnumbr ofcourse it does. On a wet street, there is some traction. One wheel may have more traction than the other. If both wheels are on a surface with no traction. The shorter shaft will always slip. What you are experiencing in your 99 impreza is totally different than what's happening in this situation. You can start a fire with dry sticks rubbed together, a lighter, lightening, or a magnifying glass. We are talking about torque steer created by a lighter and not by a magnifying glass.
SoDaSub 2 months ago
@SoDaSub not always, usually the lighter side of the car will slip first, depending on which side the engine is mounted (usually the passenger side) that is the heavier side, hence the left side will slip fist. similarly to a rwd slipping the right side first due to the torque of the prop shaft lifting the weight off the right side of the vehicle slightly. (unless your axles are twisting, torque is transferred instantly)
lostnumbr 2 months ago
@lostnumbr Your 99 Impreza example would be from one wheel not having traction due to the environment. It's very different from an Accord V6 always lurching to the right due to power and its transversely mounted engine.
SoDaSub 2 months ago
I like how the vehicle has to 'assess the situation' instead of the driver doing so. The more responsibility you take from the person and give to the vehicle, the more fucked someone is going to be if there is ever a problem. Put someone with some common sense in a 4WD K5 Blazer made in the 1970s and watch it go twice as many places as ALL of these pansy vehicles. Shit like this just caters to idiots.
anasasisxenophontis 3 months ago
@anasasisxenophontis You are comparing 4WD to AWD. This is a comparison of AWD only. Even the worst of these vehicles would embarass a 4WD K5 Blazer in driving dynamics, safety, reliability, comfort, and fuel economy. None of these vehicles, including the Subaru, are hardcore offroaders and are not being compared to them either.
SoDaSub 3 months ago
@SoDaSub It's also a comparison of traction capabilities only. The video makes no mention of driving dynamics, safety, reliability, comfort, or fuel economy. FWIW, K5 Blazers in the 70s were full-time 4WD.
anasasisxenophontis 3 months ago
@anasasisxenophontis The K5 Blazer had a completely reactive 4WD system when not in locked mode. Unless locked, its traction abilities would be far less capable than Subaru's current systems. It would not be able to climb one front wheel with all of the other wheels without traction. It would also not be as capable on the road for rearranging torque as it requires slip before engaging. For offroading, the blazer has a locking diff, low range, a more robust rear diff, and better A and D angles.
SoDaSub 3 months ago
@SoDaSub The reactive 4WD system is simply a differential in the NP203 transfer case. All of these vehicles require slip before engaging, whereas the NP203 has the option of full lockup to deliver a constant amount of torque to each axle. Regardless, my argument remains the same; the more responsibility you take from the driver and give to the vehicle, the more fucked someone is going to be if they get into trouble. Again, this design caters to idiots.
anasasisxenophontis 3 months ago
@anasasisxenophontis None of Subaru's systems require slip before engaging. They are AWD all of the time. Even the 80/20 split FWD biased Active AWD system moves torque around based on steering, throttle, and braking inputs. 80/20 would be the split when cruising and without accelerating. The point is, if you're going to buy an AWD vehicle, you might as well buy one with an AWD that actually works.
SoDaSub 3 months ago
@SoDaSub As a control systems engineer, it is my job to design things like this. Given the option, I would take my K5 over a Subaru on an icy road. The traction management system relies on a system of inputs and predictive capabilities to produce outputs. Despite the complexities, the system can never match a human's intuition or common sense. Granted the person must have common sense, so I would not expect an idiot to be able to handle driving a stone age vehicle like a K5 Blazer.
anasasisxenophontis 3 months ago
@anasasisxenophontis You may be a better driver than most. There are many out there that do not have your capabilities and you are not able to control their capabilities. It's probably safer for you for them to be in vehicles capable of keeping them out of accidents. I've lived in areas where some vehicles had to sit on the street because they couldn't make it up the driveway.
SoDaSub 3 months ago
@SoDaSub Touche.. I will keep my old school stuff that takes a little more thinking but works well :) I lived in Montana for several years with a long wheelbase 2WD truck with a mechanical locker and never got stuck once. A little bit of ability from the vehicle and a little driving skill goes a long way. I can only hope that people practice their driving skills...especially with winter approaching and already here in places like NY.
anasasisxenophontis 3 months ago
@SoDaSub Subaru's VDC works with the driver, not against him/her. It is designed to keep the car going where the steering wheel is pointed, not just to cut power and create an understeer condition.
SoDaSub 3 months ago
I have a 4th gen Outback with a CVT transmission. Can anyone explain the pros and cons of AWD coupled with a CVT? My experience with it in ice and snow is that it's very surefooted and just plain fun to drive in those conditions. Would like to know more about if possible.
TheSwearingChef 3 months ago
Interesting tests. I love my Honda Element's AWD, it has kicked in and helped a lot over the years on trips. Although I would LOVE to have full time 4WD I have no need living in southern California, get the system/car depending on your actual need. I got my car for outings, best CAR for camping, easy cleaning too. I've gone through rain, mud (little), snow, dirt, gravel and whatever else, hasn't failed yet. As with everything, just understand your limitations before going forward.
Mikenopolis 4 months ago
Subaru has 4 different drivetrains. (stick:50/50 bevel, 41/59 planetary. auto:45/55 double planetary, 100/0 clutch system)
Only with manual transmissions could one use use the marketing term 'symmetric', because the automatic transmissions do not have the front differential located directly in the centerline of the vehicle.
99.99% or so, of Subaru's have an open front differential (WRX STi does not)
What percent use a viscous coupling clutch or torsen* on the rear differential? 50% or so?
SparkDischarge 4 months ago
@SparkDischarge Your info is a little off for USDM Front/Rear Torque split... Non STI manual transmissions are 50/50. All of the vehicles using the 5EAT and the 2002-2007 4EAT WRX's use a 45/55 split. The 2004 - 2005 WRX STI were 35/65 and the 2006 on use 41/59. All of the other 4EAT and CVT transmission vehicles were 90/10 static and are now 80/20 static. Every vehicle is symmetric because the center diff is centrally located as part of the transmission casing.
SoDaSub 4 months ago
@SparkDischarge Splitting the vehicle down the center yields a perfectly symmetrical left and right drivetrain. Do a google image search for "Subaru Drivetrain" and you can see any number of pictures depicting the symmetrical layout. Only the WRX STI has a non open rear differential for current Subaru models.
SoDaSub 4 months ago
@SoDaSub Subaru's with automatic transmissions are not symmetrical.
The front differential is not located on the vehicles' centerline. Subaru tried as hard as they could.
Has Subaru really fallen that far? Subaru used to offer viscous coupling clutches or a torsen (or equivalent) on the rear differential on nearly all of their vehicles.
Since Subaru's are still substantially front heavy, having something besides an open front differential isn't that critical. (and you can get a front Quaife)
SparkDischarge 4 months ago
@SparkDischarge You should check out an exploded view of the automatic transmission. It is located EXACTLYon the centerline. Subaru's VDC system reacts quicker than a LSD. In addition to that, it can run every parameter of controlling the power split through the ECU. The downside is for track use, it will contribute to brake fade. VDC allows all new Subarus to do what all none STI vehicles couldn't do, control left and right power split on the front wheels.
SoDaSub 4 months ago
@SparkDischarge Also, all of the Subaru vehicles are constantly varying torque front and back. The CVT and Auto transmissions vary torque split based on throttle, braking, and steering in addition to wheel slippage. Even the 80/20 clutch system will constantly and automatically vary power appropriation for simple things as taking off from a stoplight, braking downhill, or making a right hand turn. Static torque splits are given for cruising purposes.
SoDaSub 4 months ago
The test is ok but if you went through all the trouble to set up this demonstration, why didn't you get a better camera angle so you can also show what the back wheels are doing?
chlarock 4 months ago
@chlarock The people this video was meant for were actually there and could see the entire vehicle. It was meant as a recap for the attendees.There's an independently conducted version in my other videos
SoDaSub 4 months ago
Should have guessed it was a subaru advert with all the bs about symmetry the cars were rocking because the traction control was swapping power from left to right and vw only claim the passat will move NOT climb with one wheel epic FAIL
tomnwoo 4 months ago
@tomnwoo The left to right movement is torque steer. The traction control isn't swapping power left and right, it's reigning in the torque steer that is more visible because the wheels are "on ice." The Subaru Legacy doesn't do this because the drivetrain is symmetrical and the drive shafts axle shafts are of equal length. I have a video of an independently done test which shows other vehicles doing the same thing.
SoDaSub 4 months ago
funny... my wife's 2006 never got stuck, EXCEPT when it was completely on ice, and all four wheels were stuck crosswise in tire ruts.
and it WILL pull into, AND back into a fully iced drive way even with the front wheels on ice and spinning.
it's called a DSC off switch, just deactivate the stability/traction control, and MANUALLY roll on the power, it works fine...
Subaru's do have a good system, but your only showing off the need to have LESS driving ability to operate it
80spodcastchannel 4 months ago
@80spodcastchannel The Forester in this video did not come with VDC (traction & stability control and the time) The Legacy GT in this video did have VDC and it was on for this test.
SoDaSub 4 months ago
@SoDaSub Dude...it is also a dedicated all wheel drive full time and the MPG suffers..
dont get me wrong..I LIKE Subaru's...I just prefer hondas. for a cute ute, the real time AWD honda uses works pretty excellent, you DO need to be a bit more aggressive, and disable the DSC for the rough stuff, but it works ok.
80spodcastchannel 4 months ago
@80spodcastchannel Subaru has really improved MPG in recent years. As you stated, Subaru's are fulltime AWD unlike most AWD vehicles. The Outback gets 29 mpg and is the most full efficient AWD non-hybrid SUV at 29 mpg. The Legacy is 31 mpg and at the time of its introduction, was more than most 2WD Midsize sedans. It's now on par with its 2WD competition. The Impreza is now 36 mpg hwy and is the most fuel efficient AWD vehicle. The Forester is on par or better than its peers.
SoDaSub 4 months ago
@80spodcastchannel The CR-V has one of the worst AWD systems in the segment. Check out the video Subaru versus your car part 2. The CRV has traction and stability off to free itself from being stuck in the snow and is not able to free itself.
SoDaSub 4 months ago
@SoDaSub I never got stuck...REAL WORLD driving. lab tests are one thing and we were spaking of TWO specific vehicles, honda blows ANY model away if you want to compare street car MPG with the VX 50+MPG
and the HF 57+MPG civics. since your ALSO seeking valiadation and arguments.. I'm out.
you like subaru's and I like hondas..that's why they build both.
we are now concluded in this conversation..
80spodcastchannel 4 months ago
@80spodcastchannel As you can see in this video (laboratory) and in the video I directed you towards (real world) it's more likely for the CRV to have issues with power transfer and traction. You may never have gotten stuck, but the CR-V in the video sure did. It's a matter of fact that the CRV uses an inferior AWD system. Regarding fuel economy, Honda's AWD vehicles were less fuel efficient until the past two years. Now they are 1 mpg in either direction.
SoDaSub 4 months ago
@SoDaSub YOUR NOT GOING TO CONVINCE ME OF ANYTHING FROM A SUBARU BASED VIDEO, VERSUS PERSONAL EXPERIENCES/REAL WORLD DRIVING IN SEVERE CONDITIONS.
NOW, SINCE I AM USING LARGE FONT AND SPEAKING WITH SMALL WORDS...
TAKE THIS EXCHANGE FOR WHAT YOU WILL. I AM NOT GOING TO SUDDENLY GO 'OH HELL' AND SELL A PERFECTLY GOOD VEHICLE FOR YOUR(!!) NEED TO FEEL SELF ANOINTED IN THE HALLOWED HALLS OF SUBARU SALESMEN,SWITCHING HONDA OWNERS. MY WIFE AND I OWN 4 HONDAS.. SEE A TREND? NONE OF THEM ARE SUBARU'S?
80spodcastchannel 4 months ago
@80spodcastchannel It's your own ignorance and your own money. Do as you wish. Being blindly loyal just lines the pockets of those companies that don't have to try harder.
SoDaSub 4 months ago
@SoDaSub and being an unpaid barely closeted shill who's so uber gay for SUBARU. you are now a borderline whiny baby means your working for even less money, with sincere deluded ignorance of the facts of life and freedom of choice. just because you really want to give birth to Subaru's love child, does NOT mean everyone is as mono maniacally driven for a bloody car as you are. get a grip on reality and better yet, get a life, stop trolling other people who dont buy YOUR choice of "best of".
80spodcastchannel 4 months ago
@80spodcastchannel lol. This is sad. I thought we were debating AWD? You are getting mad over a car discussion. Seriously? Take a test drive in a Subaru... you just might like it.
SoDaSub 4 months ago
@SoDaSub I just did.... I drove my wife's coworker's TRIBECA...I never said I dont like subaru's so stop putting your opinions in my mouth. you are using specious and arbitrary arguments,to further your OWN ends,then jumping vehicles to make subaru's look better.get over yourself, hawking a specific brand. I prefer my own choices, you dont get to determine MY choices,understand that? now,go back to playing internet car salesman. lastly,keep pissing off potential buyers,they wont buy subaru's
80spodcastchannel 4 months ago
@80spodcastchannel It's OK to agree to disagree, but lets not be foolish. If you can't have a friendly and objective argument without taking it personally, please don't comment. I would not consider you a potential buyer of anything other than Hondas. You've made that clear.
SoDaSub 4 months ago
I think my Toyata Tacoma pick up trunk, in 4 wheel drive, would have passed all tests ? Of course, it would have failed the "all four on ice test" but not the others - am I correct ?
plparshall 4 months ago
@plparshall
Yes, a truck part-time 4wd system would have no problem with this test because they get exactly 50% of the torque to each axle.
fubecabr 4 months ago
@fubecabr No, it is 100/0/100.
SparkDischarge 4 months ago
For the vw passat, you can see the person steering the wheel, nice try.
patbasanese 5 months ago
@patbasanese It's called torque steer. The VW has a transversely mounted engine and transmission. As the traction and stability control turns on and off, it causes the wheels and thus the steering wheel to jerk to one side. This is more pronounced on the rollers due to the reduced traction on 3 wheels. The driver is reigning it in to stay on the platform.
SoDaSub 5 months ago
Subaru claims the best AWD system yet didn't test other brands that claim the same...i.e. Audi Quattro, Mitsubishi (Evo), Acura SH-AWD, Mercedes 4matic or Volvo AWD. Also, comparing lower end "4wd" Honda's and Toyota's is price biased and mechanical/tech biased. Apples and Oranges. Granted it is produced by Subaru for Subaru. Oh well. I love Subaru and always will but I would like to see a true comparison between ALL brands who make true AWD systems and not just part time FWD biased AWD.
Imaginarychild43 6 months ago 5
@Imaginarychild43 Why did you choose to make up the "best" claim. Mercedes 4matic and Volvo's Haldex definitely don't deserve to be on the list of the best. All of the above, with the exception of the EVO don't even make systems comparable to that in the WRX STI. If Subaru were really going there, these videos would have been the STI vs. everything under the sun. It didn't even get a mention.
SoDaSub 6 months ago
@Imaginarychild43
You forgot the price range. Audi/Acura, Mercedes and Volvo are all about 10 thousand dollars more than Subarus. You fail again.
szaramata 6 months ago
@szaramata
Depends on which Subaru you're looking at. The Impreza is far and away the best value under $20k, but the nicely equipped Outback, Tribeca, and Legacy are a bit pricey for what they are.
fubecabr 4 months ago
he said the honda company doesnt give the public any info on their awd, why would they do that if their awd sucks so much no one wants to see their ideas, SUBARU should not let people know but they still do
enjoi389 6 months ago
@enjoi389 Customers are more informed these days. If you have something that's not great and you provide information that allows for customers to see that fact for themselves, you are possibly shooting yourself in the foot. Subaru has a great system and wants to promoite it. The technology could be duplicated, but a company isn't going to spend the money when the buying public thinks that AWD is AWD and doesn't know the differences.
SoDaSub 6 months ago
@SoDaSub u got a good point!
enjoi389 6 months ago
Very good test, Subaru's system is just the best out there hands down, I've owned nothing but Subaru's and love trying to get them stuck in the winter. You can run them with summer tires in the winter and be fine, with winter tires they are overkill.
rallypros 7 months ago
@rallypros
Summer tires on a Subaru in real winter conditions is still a fail. It might not get stuck unless it's in real deep snow, but it's at a disadvantage with braking. The difference in stopping distances in any car with summer tires on snow/ice vs winter tires can be very substantial. I don't like ending up in ditches or hitting other cars.
fubecabr 5 months ago
Good test, but I'd like to see some other scenarios besides requiring torque/traction going uphill. I'd like to see braking while losing traction downhill to see if the car can stop in a straight line. I'd also like to see traction loss on one or more tires on a flat surface, or around a turn, to see if the car can keep on course and if the driver can maintain control.
polaris911 7 months ago
@polaris911 For your last request, check out "2011 Subaru Traction/Stability Control and Symmetrical AWD vs. Nissan, Honda, Toyota, and Ford" in my videos.
SoDaSub 7 months ago
Woohoo! I drive an Impreza.
PS - The troll should only be fed by trained professionals, DO NOT feed the troll.
JSnyder49428 8 months ago
Audi Quattro>ALL
Macwylee 8 months ago
@Macwylee too bad the system used in this vw is almost identical to quattro
JSnyder49428 8 months ago
@JSnyder49428
Dead wrong, Passats from 2006 onwards have a Haldex based AWD system (it doesn't fire until a front tire loses traction) which is inferior to Subaru's Symmetrical AWD or Audi's Quattro system which has a Torsen center differential.
luisinhoens90 4 months ago
You Boxers are just happy to gang up on the best. And Volkswagen owns Lamborghini. SUBARU WILL NEVER BE AS GOOD AS HONDA! HONDA IS THE BEST. dIP
Solumic 8 months ago
@Solumic Lamborghini still has no racing heritage, before VW ownership or after. Typing in all caps is an internet no no... especially on an unqualified statement.
SoDaSub 8 months ago 3
@Solumic Hahahha, Honda is the best? Is that sarcasm or are you just an idiot?
Noahsebb88 8 months ago
@Solumic
VW owning lambo makes no difference. honda is not good for anything but a daily commuter
chipleader14 8 months ago
@Solumic why is that
toyota420xp 8 months ago
@Solumic /watch?v=hN2eipP-dq0
Owned.
sean1256 7 months ago
Honda's 'SHAWD' is the most pathetic pile of crap I've ever seen. Honda AWD can send approx 10% of the total engine torque to the rear wheels. The rear differential is tiny. The drive shaft is the size of a Subaru rear axle. Get a life.
SarraPiyopiyo 7 months ago in playlist Hittin`gas
@SarraPiyopiyo Wow your a dip fuck. Honda AWD is not Acura SH. Get A brain.
Solumic 7 months ago
@Solumic who owns Acura honda lol, and ACURA SHAWD is awesome my bro owns a MDX and its effing awesome
zainuintel 7 months ago
@Solumic check both vid responses. Theyre mine. They are good.
zainuintel 7 months ago
It's not marketed as such, but it is EXACTLY THE SAME THING.
SarraPiyopiyo 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@SarraPiyopiyo Ok then you have proved your lack of knowledge about Honda motor company.
Solumic 7 months ago
@SarraPiyopiyo Honda's have 4wd system as the Acura's come with with a Sh-AWD big difference. Do some research.
Solumic 7 months ago
I don't need to 'do some research', I've serviced them, and taken the systems apart.
SarraPiyopiyo 7 months ago
@SarraPiyopiyo Obviously not.
Solumic 7 months ago
07 VW Passat. They made the claim that the car will "move" even if only one wheel has traction. I see the vehicle moving. They also never stated that it would move on an incline. Redo the test on flat ground, and VW's marketing team will be proven quite clever. Consumers need to use their brains. Didn't any of you take English courses in college?
Noahsebb88 8 months ago
@Noahsebb88 Why would you make excuses for a misleading ad claims? That's not smart at all.
SoDaSub 8 months ago
@SoDaSub I'm not making excuses. I'm just stating that the VW marketing team just made a clever statement. The only misleading thing is your brain, which lead you to believe that VWs statement referred to an incline. If you were smart, you would ignore ALL claims by any corporation, company, etc that stand to profit from your purchase. Including Subaru.
Noahsebb88 8 months ago
Sorry for a triple post but this is an easier way to see the independent tests.
youtube.com/watch?v=ktoGVBR4op4
Loscaldazar 8 months ago
Honda crv is mostly FWD as you said to save gas and it does not have complicated AWD system. Try Acura SHAWD and see how it outperforms your subaru.
syalcin123 8 months ago
@syalcin123 Do you know how SHAWD works? Please explain in detail and you will see that the statement you proclaimed is false. Are you also aware that SHAWD is not the same for every Acura that carries the badge? Even so, Acura isn't Subaru's true competition.
SoDaSub 8 months ago
@SoDaSub Yes I know how it works but I won't explain since if you are subarus spokeperson, you should already know it. SHAWD is upgraded in 2010 for TL and RL and similar on SUV. Acura is a luxury model and surely not Subarus competitor.
syalcin123 8 months ago
@syalcin123 Please explain for all of the viewers here. And yes... it's a trap. No, Acura is not Subaru's competitor. Infiniti, Audi, BMW, Lexus, and Mercedes are... and Acura does a great job with reliability but a poor job matching the offerings of its competitors. Declining sales since 2005 seem to prove that.
SoDaSub 8 months ago
@SoDaSub Buy an Acura and make the same tests. I don't analyze competitors but its stupid to match technical features with sales figures
syalcin123 8 months ago
@SoDaSub Your a fucking idiot. And obviously don't pay attention to formula 1 or indy. Which are the most prestigious races in the world. Which includes the best car makers in the world such as Honda, Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault, Lotus and so on. You have never and will never see Subaru's name up with those names. They are surely not competitors with honda. Honda powers the entire 33 car line up of Indy racing and have for years, without one engine failure. Honda was also formula one. Subaru junk
Solumic 8 months ago
@Solumic watch your language or get blocked. If you can't argue objectively, don't argue at all. Feel free to tell Lamborghini that they are junk because they aren't in any racing circuits. Subaru actually uses the same engine found in their rally cars in their actual passenger cars. Honda doesn't sell a single sports car. This is a still a discussion about AWD. The fact remains that Subaru's AWD is vastly superior to what Honda offers.
SoDaSub 8 months ago
BS test. You cant even see the back wheels. This is an ad against honda. I have real time 4wd and i plow through the snow and ice! I live in the fucking rocky mountains, i have tried finding hills that i cant make it up.
Solumic 9 months ago
@Solumic Not a BS test. The video was a recap for people that were actually there and could see the entire vehicles. It was never meant for public consumption. Anyone with any knowledge of mechanics and AWD can tell you that the system in the CR-V is inferior to many of the AWD systems offered by other companies, not just Subaru's.
SoDaSub 9 months ago
@SoDaSub actually a quick youtube search yields several videos of CR-V's either stuck or not able to plow through snow. You can even see the front wheels turn and the rears not turning on CR-V's that are supposedly 4WD.
SoDaSub 9 months ago
@SoDaSub All those car's are inferior to Honda
Solumic 9 months ago
Comment removed
Loscaldazar 8 months ago
@Solumic No not a BS test. look at this subaru.com/weather/index.html (go to this and click on learn about Subaru symmetrical all-wheel drive). It shows an INDEPENDENT TEST that was done and Subaru wins. These results are certified as INDEPENDENT WITH NO SLANTING. there you go. Subaru wins with 40 years of experience in AWD.
Loscaldazar 8 months ago
@Loscaldazar Honda doesn't even have an all wheel drive system. It's a 4wd system made to prove it's self in the real world. Not on some stupid roller ramp, that you cant even see if this is a 4wd or 2wd version because they don't show the back tires. It also doesn't state whether or not the Crv's VSA is on or off which blurs the results. That of which they did on purpose. I never said anything bad about Subaru's awd system. They are good at what they do. So chill out Boxer.
Solumic 8 months ago
@Solumic youtube.com/watch?v=ktoGVBR4op4, youtube.com/watch?v=P21lwEYY-D0&feature=related
These were the tests i was referring to.Watch them they are independent tests and show that Subaru wins.In an independent test it's not the car company that is doing the testing so no slanting.You did say that they were all inferior to honda's and i'm arguing that Subaru's are superior. The Symmetrical AWD has been proven in rally racing and by driving it in terrible weather.Where has the CRV been proven?
Loscaldazar 8 months ago
@Loscaldazar If you were making true statements i would at least keep debating with you. But you are now bringing things into this conversation that weren't said. I never once said that they are all inferior to honda's. But Honda's are superior, which is why they have the reputation they have for reliability. And the CRV is not a rally car. I have driven the new sti and compared it to the TL i have driven and the NSX i have driven.. You wanna talk real all wheel drive, drive any new SH Acura.
Solumic 8 months ago
@Loscaldazar Honda has a far better racing history, and reliability than subaru. That is where Honda has proved them selves and still do.
Solumic 8 months ago
@Solumic
Honda's system isn't really even a 4wd system. If it can only send 5-10% of what little torque it has to the rear wheels, it's a FWD for all intents and purposes.
A part time 4wd as found in most trucks beats the shit out of honda's system and works pretty-damned well for 65 year old tech.
fubecabr 5 months ago
@fubecabr really? then tell me how a 2006 CR-V mired in two FEET of loose powder snow pulls FORWARDS, AND backwards,with"only 5-10% of what little"bit of 156 HP and 160 lb-ft of torque, which is 14 less HP and 65% of the SAME Torque as a FORD 300 straight six budrow.
the ford which has (170 hp Torque 260 lb·ft) in a BIG cast block with TWICE the displacement. so dont start dogging Honda's K 2.4, it's a great motor for a sport ute.her truck will crack 25MPG on trips. and has NEVER broken down.
80spodcastchannel 4 months ago
@80spodcastchannel
CR-V has the shittiest AWD system on the planet, period. For all practical purposes, it's a FWD vehicle. I really doubt you could get a CR-V moving in TWO FEET Of snow. My big diesel 4x4 with snow tires would get stuck in that.
The Honda K is an awesome motor for certain applications but it can't be compared to a 45 year old truck motor. Apples and oranges.
fubecabr 4 months ago
Is the Impreza (or every other vehicles in Subaru's US lineup) capable of doing what that Legacy did in the video?
dtemplar 9 months ago
@dtemplar Not all models and model years were capable of doing this. all vehicles since the 2009 Model year are capable. It depends on models prior if they were equipped with Vehicle Dynamics Control or not. Some could not climb on any one wheel. Some equipped with Limited Slip Differentials could climb on on rear wheel but not one front wheel. Some could even without VDC (STI).
SoDaSub 9 months ago
@SoDaSub What about a 2008 Subaru Tribeca woth 3.6L H boxer? Is it capable of doung what the Legacy did? As far as I know, the Tribeca does have symmetrical AWD, VDC and VTD... but I'm not sure if it has LSD?
tos3rd 9 months ago
@tos3rd Yes... as long as the VDC is turned on. The VDC acts like an LSD and brakes on the slipping wheel. This forces power to the side that has traction. VDC monitors wheel spin for each wheel and can brake on them individually.
SoDaSub 9 months ago
Rollers do not simulate ice or any real world situation. A useless tests for the most part.
rotarydialz 9 months ago
@rotarydialz obviously they simulate when a wheel has no traction... like ice...which does exist in the real world.
SoDaSub 9 months ago
I'd like to see what the Highlander and CR-V did with traction control off.
turboBoxer 10 months ago
Respond to this video... They both still wouldn't climb. Traction control was left on for the purpose of the video. Other vehicles and scenarios were also tested, but not everything made the video.
SoDaSub 10 months ago
What if the driver accel to the wall? ahahaha.
What if somebody bump into your vehicle rear? that's mean major damage to the RWD.
But of course, Subaru is a popular choice for countries that do not have normal roads like Australia or Mexico.
UnitedPebbles 10 months ago
Too bad Subaru doesn't have any trucks :(
quitarlegendgta 10 months ago
For sure my next vehicle is going to be a Subaru. My piece of shit Toyota Corolla gets stuck so easily even with Blizzak winter tires. "active" traction control is a huge scam; all it does is cut the power. There's just no replacement for a good limited slip or locking differential.
ShawnD1 11 months ago
Very interesting video! Could someone explain the point about the Passat having an asymmetric drivetrain and the ensuing torque steer beeing the reason why it cant climb on 1 wheel? From my point of view this doesn't make much sense as the torque distribution should be based on wheel speed sensor outputs?
Cyco2k5 11 months ago
Sorry but this video is quite useless. You'd have to be a moron to buy any of these if you intend to do any amount of serious off-roading.
These systems are designed to improve grip in slippery driving conditions, not pull cars up an incline from a standstill with only one wheel under traction. Anything more than gravel would deem most of these cars useless. Except for the CRV, which is useless at all times.
Kudos to Subaru, but everyone knows their AWD sytem is brilliant. Always has been.
enigmaj316 11 months ago
@enigmaj316 Subaru's system doesn't require you to be in motion. That's kind of the point... to show not all AWD systems are created equal. Some of these systems with a running start on the hill incline failed there as well.
SoDaSub 11 months ago
@SoDaSub Granted, but my point is that AWD isn't designed for off-roading or even hill-climbing.
It is designed for traction through cornering, and some sort of test showing how they differ in that area would be much more telling. While I conceed subaru AWD is the best, how well they do under conditions they weren't designed is a bit of a moot point.
enigmaj316 11 months ago
@enigmaj316 This isn't a hill climb, it's an incline with compromised traction. Something that wouldn't be uncommon to find in a driveway during the winter. Considering most of these vehicles don't have Limited Slip Differentials or traction control systems capable of acting as an LSD, They are supposedly designed for moving power away from traction compromised wheels. Honda advertises the CRV as a 4x4.
Cornering is more a function of chassis, weight distribution, and suspension tuning.
SoDaSub 11 months ago
HONDA CRV IS THE BEST ..FOLLOWED BY TOYOTA ..THIS VIDEO IS BIASED
vibhavparker 11 months ago
@vibhavparker Seeing that the Forester is the most awarded small SUV in history, reality begs to differ.
SoDaSub 11 months ago
@vibhavparker Lol.That is why the Forester has better AWD, higher resale value, highest customer loyalty (people are more likely to buy a 2nd forester than buying a 2nd RAV-4 or CRV), and considered one of the most reliable cars, consumer reports has the forester ranked 1,2 and 5 (different trims) out of it's competitors, motor trends 2009 SUV of the year, 5star crash test rating from multiple Govs and IIHS top safety pick.And that's not all.Let me know when either of those has that many awards.
Loscaldazar 8 months ago
@Loscaldazar Bull shit ignoramus. another junk domestic. Everyone i talk to about their subaru says the clutch has or will die. JUnk
Solumic 8 months ago
@Solumic Subaru is one of the top brands for reliability. It is also a Japanese product and not a domestic. Regarding your false, blanket statement... Clutches are wear items. They will die on every car eventually.
SoDaSub 8 months ago
Clutches can wear, but the speed at which they wear can vary greatly. People have reported cars with factory installed clutches lasting 300,000 miles. I've also replaced a clutch in a car with very low mileage. Clutches in differentials, however, require special additives or they will burn up, and Toyota loved doing this (shipping clutch LSD's with no additives).
SarraPiyopiyo 7 months ago
@Solumic
Those who kill their clutches early are launching their cars at high RPM's.Saying Subaru's are domestic shows you knowledge on this subject. On the last page you actually said "they are all inferior to Honda's". And i asked were has the CRV been proven, not F1 cars that the general public never drives but in real life. Rally America is done using a 305hp STi that has upgrades to suspensions and a roll cage. Haven't seen a honda remotely close to a F1 car that you can buy.
Loscaldazar 8 months ago
@Solumic Calling me ignorant for saying i didn't know about how good the forester was stupid, as you just said that Subaru is Domestic.Not only that but i realize you have given no comments about those videos i told you to watch.Subaru Wins :).And yes honda's are reliable but Subaru's are equally so.You also say compare it to Acura's SH-AWD.When did Subaru become a luxury car manufacture?You can't compare premium cars to luxury, that's like comparing Fast food to a Wolfgang Puck restaurant.
Loscaldazar 8 months ago
@Loscaldazar Acura is Honda you dip.
Solumic 8 months ago
@Solumic
they are owned by the same people but they are different companies. Acura is still luxury and therefore not in this conversation. Subaru Symmetrical AWD > Honda Realtime 4WD
@Noahsebb88
Whether or not VW claims that it was on a flat surface or an incline, the Subaru still managed to do it when the VW couldn't, showing that a Subaru has a better designed AWD system.
Loscaldazar 8 months ago
@Loscaldazar Honda is the best .sry
vibhavparker 8 months ago
I moved from the Chicago area to a small town in South Dakota and traded in my '02 Impala LS for an '05 Baja Turbo, given how much more snow SD gets and how much colder the temps are (they only use sand because salt is ineffective). It seems to snow 4 - 8 inches every weekend since November, and every weekend I take my Baja out for a joy ride before the plows get to work. It's so nice to have a car I can get into after some big snow without worry !
UIUCPat 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Subaru's AWD is better than most other low cost systems. SH-AWD should be able to climb because the diff is capable of actually locking the front and rear wheels together, much like X-Drive does. Notice how Subaru did not use a manual transmission vehicle to test. It would have likely preformed like the CR-V and Highlander since the center diff can not lock completely to pull the vehicle up the ramp.
autoxerwgn 1 year ago
If the programming of the traction/stability control was more aggressive with brake application, all of the vehicles should have been able to climb the ramps, although maybe not very smoothly.
autoxerwgn 1 year ago