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  • De Botton is a book salesman... He's probably written an Atheist Bible, or some more pop-up philosophy books... He's a bored middle class twat, an intellectual fairy and has no business flogging his shite on TED talks.

  • Athiesm is a religion...a belief in only classical determinism. Like physics of the 17th century, physics of the 21st century will eventually be replaced by physics of the 25th century. My God won't. Religion teaches a respect for our creator. If you don't think science and religion mix, then I dare you check out "Reason to Believe" group of scientists....or go pickup any recent quantum physics research. Quantum erasure experiments alone should have you believing that God plays dice.

  • @hitechsella - Quite quite wrong...Someone can be an atheist and believe in space monkeys. Not believing in God doesn't say anything about what someone believes...You can be spiritual yet completely atheist, in the religious sense.

    Using science to prove God is a non-starter, but on a philosophical level you may see God everywhere, in the cosmos or evolution for example....You can have your own beliefs, just not your own facts.

  • @hitechsella atheism is not a religion please educate your self

  • This is the stupidest TED lecture (sermon?) I've ever heard.

  • ''Religions are intermittently too useful, effective and intelligent to be abandoned to the religious alone.'' Alain de Botton

    Religion has been useful and effective to make people dogmatic, close minded, and to have an excuse to kill other people, not very intelligent things in my opinion. Alain de Botton is an ignorant who needs to read some history books, and read news about the relgious conflicts around the world.

  • false religions, filthy and unholy philosophy. I tremble considering the masses of lost peoples buying their one way tickets for hell...they will regret deeply when the last days will come

  • Consolation from an imaginary friend? Rituals of superstition with 0 proved facts to back them? Can someone tell me in a logical and rational way why being a "spiritual person" is better than being a non-spiritual person?

    As a CNN user pointed out, we don't need religion to have culture, traditions or morality. It was culture which created religion and not the other way around as De Botton says. Religion can learn more from atheism than viceversa. Alain de Botton is deluded.

  • Oh, it's easy to dismiss religion? Do you even have any idea what the choice to admit to friends, family and total strangers entails? Some have been disowned by their own parents. Ignored by friends, bullied and become victims of persecution.

    Atheism 2.0? What if I don't take from other religions, but rather take inspiration from all the things religions have denied us access to through history.

    Do things that are scientifically proven to work instead of trivial rituals for an unproven soul.

  • It’s human nature to rescue a person in a burning building; likewise, there is no distinction with a person headed toward Hell. True Mature Christians are aware of the impending dangers facing people without salvation. That said, there isn’t a single individual in Hell that doesn’t believe in God. All have had an immediate change of heart and mind, but was too late!

    No one can blame God, as people simply refuse the truth while making wrong choices and by their decisions, end in Hell...very sad!

  • the amount of red in the like bar is disturbing. this man is the fucking genius of our lifetime and we are red barring him. what the fuck humans, get your shit together.

  • He has a terrible aspect like this, he should shave his head completely or do something about it. What a pity a young guy that lost his hair that way

  • So De Botton wants atheists to be more like religious people. Why? I see no reason for any of that.

  • I think he said it best in the beginning - replace religion with culture. Religion is culture that was seen as a truth. Truths are personal; 1 book should never decide the morality of all men, no matter who writes it.

  • obviously this dude doesn't even know what atheism is, learn what it is first before try to change it

  • #atheism 2.0 >>>#atheism 1.0

    Which camp do you belong in?

    Are you a religious #atheist1.0?

    For #atheists1.0, time for a self-upgrade?

  • Well, he seems to have identified what Atheism lacks, but not the why of it. Atheism is suspicious by its very nature of claims to objectively labeling anything "good" or "bad". Case in point: there is no "good" propaganda. I think de Botton is just trying to convert lax Christians. But why should someone consider becoming an atheist at all if they're not willing to do the work required in questioning themselves or the greater world? That's what agnosticism is for.

  • Atheists are religious freaks! It's all about being agnostic.

  • What a bore! Note the fancy microphone. Seems like a preacher to me except that Botton is very likely making a comfortable living sermonizing on a popular topic; the only difference is that he says nothing of any real substance or value.

  • I think Alain de Botton would have a lot to talk about in conversation with Terry Eagleton. The two make a lot of similar points - that, for instance, in capitalistic society we've secularised in a very bourgeois manner, in a manner that effaces the humane and the human, that prides itself on being liberal and cultured, but hives off the arts and humanities to the extent that they're not profitable, or else tries to assimilate them to profitability.

  • stop disliking this video D:

  • but why all these...if all these are the good things from religion...then why must atheists change and adapt to religions...instead why not ..the religious people adapt to these good things and stop brainwashing and controlling others and scaring people with hell and devils etc. and scare them and force them to obey the laws of religion and must believe in "god"

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  • My God, I'm only three seconds past the TED intro and I'm already filled with an urge to punch the twat.

  • This just seems like a religious person admitting that his myths are wrong but still wanting his myths to be right. The whole "We need spiritualism and rituals!" line gives it away. Are we facing a future of guys like this if we manage to convert the majority of humans? Why does he even need all the dressings if the core is wrong?

  • Yes, atheists can learn a lot from religion: how to avoid paying tax; how to gain undeserved privilege; how to talk bollocks; homophobia; misogyny, etc., etc.

  • so what you're saying is that we should learn our art, english and social studies in the same way we learn our catechism?

  • "only just holding it together"

    Its nice to know Im not alone there.

  • Don't you hate it when your childhood hero goes from captaining the starship voyager to making atheism dogmatic?

  • @ProDegiaque i know right atheist that think them self intelligent becuase they're atheist create that false dichotomy im a non believer and it drives me up the wall with with this dogamtic atheism that poeple try to push which makes no sence

  • Just as the moderates in religious circles give indirect support to religious extremists, I am afraid this type of capitulation to organized religion will give indirect support to religion's delusional beliefs.

    They have had thousands of years to hone their organization (and control) skills along with the "god" meme to create what they have using the meme "momentum" to carry them forward. But with knowledge and thought I believe that it will die down to a fizzle.

  • @djkoch65 Yeah you're right, I prefer the Super Saiyans are Real meme to the God meme any day.

  • Life will always be messy. No philossify has cured that. Morality existed long before organized religion. I don't like the brain washing that religion brings to the table. I'm done with it.

  • i wana say majority of this is bullshit theres some good but mainly bullshit

  • @zdtmlp i'm sorry, but i have to state that, if you find this mainly "bullshit" what's your arguments ? i mainly think you weren't very attentive when you watched this.

  • @AlirezaBehzadnia bullshit may have been lil to strong and i understand what hes presenting but atheism is not by definition an ideal its marly a statement an what he was refering to is more humanism and i feel in schools that facts need to be put first before some wishy washy what dose it all mean thats for class for the humanities which is importent but shouldnt take president over the facts and i know that the schools need a clean up and more hands on with the childern

  • @AlirezaBehzadnia and i admite i was abit rash

  • @AlirezaBehzadnia n the morality bit poeple have constructed morality which is beneficial to are survival i feel it a shame to say religious indoctrination is what gave us somthin we already had you dont see other apes going to clargy its innate to be good for the beneifit of us an others and i find somthing thats been evolutionary beneficial to us. long befor the birth of myths an delusion and giving the credit to myth and delusion to be belittlement of the importence of orgin of our morality

  • Uncle Tom de Botton.

  • We in islam we don't get bored listening to the same verses for weeks!

    Indeed The Holy Quraan contains the things we seek to know in this life,

    it is intrepreting all of whats happening in the real life..

    Evidence, each friday, Muslims are advised to read Surat AlKahf

    each time we read it, we feel we wanna repeat it, because it discuss 4 major things we face

    in life...

    And pls no that, with Islam there are no mystry... all explained in Holy Quraan...

  • @abedabudayyeh1 you should realize that, what atheists are debating, is the root of religion. which says everything is created by god. we reject that, because we don't like to believe is superpowers. nevertheless you have a point there, as he explained, we admire the way religions work, but not what they work for. an example would be a computer, it works great, but if it was built to deliver us wrong info, its well utilized.

  • Religion works by constructing a strict and stern dogma. I don't want atheists or atheism to turn into a dogma of mindless worship and following dogma where our brains are emotionally hijacked.

    And propaganda is blind. Who gets to decide what is good propaganda vs. bad?

  • I don't agree that religion is useful in anyway ....

  • @Alibm80 it teaches us morality. without it, we would've taken more years to get here. i don't believe in god either, but religious-like philosophies such as "Buddhism" which i highly recommend, bridges the secular world and the religious world. its the fine line between, being a christian and being an atheist.

  • @AlirezaBehzadnia Buddhism is a religion, not a philosophy. There may not be a God in it, but being an adherent requires accepting supernatural forces. You're getting confused with the cultural/philosophical traditions of Eastern countries. Also, you have zero evidence that morality would have developed differently without religion, and there's no point in even speculating about this.

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  • Don't make atheism as a cult! It would be equally as bad as organized religion. Alain de Botton, you gave a terrible presentation and you were jeopardizing atheist rational cause.

  • I think he is missing the point of art, I completely disagree. It should be an end in itself. Otherwise, it isn't art, it's decoration, or like he said himself - propaganda. In previous times it did serve a different purpose but that was a time when cameras, video, radio, etc could not serve that purpose better, and art has evolved into something new, more organic, respected and personal to the artist, and he disregards that... though I do agree that it is very important to look at the moon.

  • Sounds like he is opening a door and paving a way towards future "religions". His argument to pick bits from religion is a weak half baked attempt to mollycoddle the religious. "Leave the songs and the buildings and copy how religions treat art and love and music ,BAH! That's exactly how we have arrived at this amphibologistic state of religious manipulation and parasitic symbiosis . Thats how religions develop!!! Scheduled propitiations to that moon? Non-Sense!

  • So this guy is arguying about atheistic religion... Oh wait, this is buddhism! ;)

  • Most of the things encountered in religion are simple ideas such as humility. Secular world doesn't teach humility.

  • @d3r2000 You must be talking about the type of religious humility that teaches us they we are so special that a god created an entire universe for just us and that it listens to us all the time so it can test and reward us constantly, right up to the point of death. Then we get to spend eternity with it smiling at us.

  • @d3r2000 If learning about the impossibly tiny place you occupy in the infinite expanse of the universe is not enough a lesson in humility for you, then your narcissism knows no bounds.

  • This form of athiesm is more of a new renaissance in Christianity really.

  • @d3r2000 Or an equivocation of agnosticism.

  • I personally think all the various issues relating to religion are themselves issues which should be highlighted. As for dieities or a single god by definition are intangible so they can't be compared with a tangible entity such as fairies, etc.

  • Don't forget the Agnostics

  • About the only thing I've ever missed from religion is singing hymns as a group and fellowship. Unfortunately fellowship can only exist as long as one believes as the rest of the people, if one's beliefs do NOT match, then one no longer feels a sense of belonging, nor fellowship with one another. Nothing replaces these things outside of church, but I would not put up with the rest of church to get those 2 pleasures. Thanks for such a reasonable rational talk.

  • Some of the atheist comments on here are ridiculous. There may be problems with de Botton's approach but why would you be opposed to moving the successful elements of religions and applying them to helping humanity without the superstition? There are reasons why religions have been so successful in the past, and while we may and should move beyond the myths involved, ritual, community, humility and grandeur are all perfectly healthy elements to include in secular society.

  • @sherwos

    " while we may and should move beyond the myths involved, ritual, community, humility and grandeur are all perfectly healthy elements to include in secular society."

    I don't see how any of those elements are missing..

  • @mindwis3 They exist but very often independent of each other. You have to go to different sources to find them.

  • Bilious and bloated, they gas, "God is gone." Their words are poison gas, fouling the air; they poison Rivers and skies; thistles are their cash crop. God sticks his head out of heaven. He looks around. He's looking for someone not stupid-one man, even, God-expectant, just one God-ready woman. He comes up empty. A string of zeros. Useless, unshepherded Sheep, taking turns pretending to be Shepherd. The ninety and nine follow their fellow. Don't they know anything, all these impostors?

  • To boil down John Wesley's ministry to 'travelling up and down the country telling people how to live' is both ignorant, narrow, and offensive. John Wesley would balk at the thought that that was what we have taken away from his ministry. His dedication was to the gospel first and foremost...it's intellectually dishonest to try and say otherwise.

  • Fidem scit.

  • It seems to me that those who responded to this so angrily are in dire need of a moral framework to live by. Whether you are all believers or non believers, your anger makes it clear that whatever it is that you believe, it is not working for you. Can there be a dialogue without the anger? In fact, I think that may have been his point......

  • God is real.

  • @TehBurchhh

    God IS real.

    All Gods are or have been real. .

    They are real in people's heads.

  • @TheBCMilnov That's a strange definition of real.

  • This guys idea is so daft. I cant take anymore of this stupidity!

    Pause at 2:21 and look at the Woman...

    Her face says: "What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

  • Nihilism is better.

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  • Some of these points are valid but they have nothing to do with faith, just some of the techniques religions employ. Of course we can learn from them but there is no need for Atheism 2.0. Really he's just talking about anthropology.

  • @deadlyrhythm I agree with you :) I cant stop watching Alain de Botton speaches .... i disagree with quite a large part of his ideas, but he really is a fascinating speaker :)

  • @deadlyrhythm really? what point(s) Botton presented here was(were) valid? what can we learn from religion? I agree with you on that there is no need for atheist 2.0.

  • "There are many gaps in secular life" - he says that because we do not believe, we therefore do not have community or morality (17min mark). What an outrageous and incorrect statement. Of course there can be community and morality in the lives of atheists - they just do not have to be centered around religious values. Community centers, charities and even book clubs all provide community and offer a sense of morality in helping others, and studying works of art and culture.

  • @seanmultisean I am also sick of defining atheists as those who have a non belief, as if there is something lacking in that person's life. If everyone collected stamps, except for a handful, we would not view those people that don't as lacking something in their lives. We don't view them as missing an important part of life, unless we frame everyone in that sense. Atheists should not be framed in the same way as religious people. They believe. Mostly, atheists don't concern themselves with it.

  • I won't be Polite to Bible thumping child molesters. Religion doesn't have anything exclusive that secularism can't offer.

  • Mighty interesting! Atheist should be able to do better since religions are successful at selling fiction. 17:00 That sound like miracle. If we come together include religions then miracle can happen. We are human being and we can't see beyond the corners or liar's loan is bad or house is not going to appreciate 15% every 3 month forever. But sometime when we do something for a while and it can be like Facebook, all of a sudden we have world peace.

  • Atheism 0.5

  • 2:37. "best side of religion". What a nonsense! Religion is corrosive to science and humanity. There are militant/stand-up atheists and atheists in closet. The so-called atheism 2.0 is only for those coward non believers who still want to show how smart they are. Militant atheists such as Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and PZ Myers are real heroes we need to make our world better.

  • What a FUCKING IDIOT! Perfect, leave or never join religion just to mimic them? Are you fucking kidding me?! This is not Atheism 2.0 and for you to call it that sets those who claim the label BACKWARDS. Atheism already has a fucking definition. We don't need this bullshit to base our morality from, to infect our education system or to infect our political system. Religion is already guilty of those crimes!

    Ever hear of LaVeyan Satanism? That sounds closer to your plan. Fuck that and fuck you!

  • I agree and love his ideas, but how do we implement them in universities, colleges, gymnasiums, clinics and workshops?

  • Make sense. The ideas behind religion are dubious - but the teaching & celebration of them are worthy of study and imitation.

    I don't think it serves atheists well to be defensive and dismissive in response to this talk.

  • I'd opt for Sam Harris' solution of the Moral Landscape any time over this eclectic stuff.

  • He tried to link christmas carols with christianity? Do your homework TED.

  • i haven't spent countless years of my life fighting for logic to say oh ok atheism is also a religion.

    what a cunt

    bitch

  • He's talking about Dawkins and Hitchens at the start but he clearly doesn't know what they're really about because both of them are already on Atheism 2.0.

  • I liked his talk. It was really sensible, and did attempt to bridge the gap with a synergistic approach. I'm an Atheist, I been freed from religion, and do think that there are wonderful things about it worth keeping.

  • Hey Alain!

    I'm already practicing your «Religion» as an Atheist, but without having to steal or borrow from any religion : it's called «common sense» and empathy, and you do not need any PHD to think about that or act that way.

  • Youtube comments about theology upset me.

  • If Atheism is a religion, then I am not only an atheist, I am a non-stamp collector, a non-football fan, non-country music listener, a non-vegetarian, a non-watcher of jersey-shore, I own a non-cat and I have a non-vagina.

  • I'm from the UK, and my religion is Jedi. -_-

  • Yea, thanks for the suggestion, but I'm not quite done with the "old" way of being an atheist. Next!

  • No,no, no!!

  • Cut off from morality by being an atheist? Has he lost his mind? As long as religion is still a threat to humanity it is still too early for his atheism 2.0. At this moment we are in a war of survival against the destructive forces of the religion!

  • @boomtao Actually the typical 'go to' argument by the theological is that of "where do you get your reference of morality ?" He presented his argument that could easily be understood by both parties and not catering to one side as much as you would like. It is something that is such an amazingly simple concept, but you will over look. Look in history, look at the times now. When people and ideas are under suppression, is when they can grow the most. Just politely disagree and move on.

  • Yes, yes, yes!!

  • I don't need ritual or transcendence, or mystical bullshit generally. For connection, I have friends. To remain in touch with what I know, I have routine review. And please, we know how repressive institutions can be, spare us some new, contrived, pitiful institution.

    No, no, no.

  • @NevilleRhysBarnes

    I know what you mean, I was a youngling on Coruscant and there was a huge coverup after the allegations of Yoda's 'private' sessions with some of the students - to this day, he hasn't gone on trial.

  • All I know is that I've never had an Atheist at my door Bothering me about their beliefs.

    Why can't religious nut-jobs understand that if I want or need something I will search and find it, and that goes for a new pair of shoes or for religion.

    Worse than nuisance telesales in my opinion. Pious bunch of pr*k$

    Rant over.

  • Have you ever listened to a "lecture" by Martin Seligman? Not just a transfer of information.

  • He is pandering to the deep human need for something greater disguising it as a system. Humans are theotropic because our ancestors evolved and survived with religion. Our atheist ancestors died alone so now we are stuck with the desire for something to look up to in the same way we need to breed, communicate and make each other feel better with neo communist ideas like this.

  • This guy is a monster.

  • How's this different from a perennial philosophy or general mysticism?

  • I've never disliked religion more. Thanks for listing all the ways it's bad?

  • This was so bad…

  • There is no need to rebrand yourselves if you take the message to heart. Ultimately, it is up to the individual to glean wisdom from this or that. I have been doing this just on my own, before coming upon this video or even finding many others who would agree. He is correct to say atheism is just the beginning--it's an axiom, a truth we atheists find to be self-evident. But there is so much more potential beyond a mere starting point!

    I suggest Joseph Campbell to those looking to grow. :)

  • LOL, THIS IS ONE OF THE FUNNIEST THINGS I'VE EVER HEARD!

    How about we don't worship anything, don't interact as athiests, and just continue not believing in anything other than our own abilities to know right from wrong, how to treat other people as we would like to be treated, and try to not use all of the scarce resources that we really need to share with others...

  • @MurphysLaww But do you believe that everyone knows how to, or a better yet, is willing to do all those things? I don't think the majority of the "Western" world does.

  • Alain de Botton has recently raised half the money for a £1million temple for atheists... in London.

    It's not going to be all that great if they only have a million. Plus it's something I'm not even sure our community either wants or needs.

  • Fuck this

  • De Botton is trying to flog one of his new books...Probably the Atheist Bible, or some such shite...He's a well known as an intellectual lightweight, and writes the most god-awful drivel.

  • Can anyone tell me, what zen buddhist festival he is referring to?

  • who thought giving du botton the mike was a good idea? hmm? Come on, we all make mistakes, confess and repent.

  • If the worst thing people can say about Mr. de Botton's proposal is that people will say it's a godless religion, is that really so bad? What is religion but philosophy delivered with flair? He isn't suggesting oppressing outsiders, and any missionary work, so to e-speak, would be through cogent arguments, not bullying or guilt trips. Be who you are, and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

  • he had my attention until he started talking about history in overtly vague terms in brevity, then tried to move on as if his position was uncontroversial.... sorry, thumbs down.. This is an entirely subjective argument.. i don't like it.

  • Just what we needed: to prove the religious when they say atheism is a religion.

    You know what happens when you shoot fish in a barrel? YOU GET MORE FREAKIN' FISH!

    This is nothing more than the old atheism trying re-pakage itself after years, upon years, of being the most hated group known and they couldn't understand why because they were "so nice".

    Now religions' on the decline, our books are best sellers & we dominate social media - by being proud of who we are.

    Stuff this tripe.

  • @YOURINQUIRER So what lovely faith are you apart of? You sound like a typical satanic dofus.

  • @rorschach602 Thank you for proving my point for me. :-)

  • @YOURINQUIRER It's like you didn't even watch the video.

  • @3xamine Of course...and I quoted from it by revelation from God!

  • @YOURINQUIRER Atheism is not a religion. Religion is the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods. Do atheists, by definition believe in and worship a superhuman controlling power? No. therefore is atheism a religion? No.

  • @YOURINQUIRER and there you are acting like a man of religion in your atheism, perfectly proving the point

    

  • @ResponsibleSnowflake Except I did nothing of the sort. By your definition, any disagreement I have with you, you can define to your benefit as "religious". While that might seem helpful to you, it has no relationship to reality whatsoever. Nice try though.

  • @YOURINQUIRER Okay maybe, I just feel that ultimately your reaction was an emotional one that failed to see the positive aspects of Alains speech. He's just offering a form of Atheism that isn't militant... For me Atheism is "not god" rather than "against god" and we can hardly be defined as "us" against "them". I live in secular society and come from a sec home. Maybe this has had an impact? My distinguishing recognition of people is: Empathy or no, compassion or no, real or not?

  • @ResponsibleSnowflake One positive aspect does not negate negative ones, especially when it is the central premise of his argument.

    The description 'militant' is laughable. The form of atheism he advocates is a return to the older form which was disasterous for atheists. It defined us as people who forced on the culture atheism though the courts rather than what we are now which is a vibrant movement within the culture.

    Why return to failure?

  • @YOURINQUIRER Why believe in a cruel omnipotent who wants to be worshiped? Religion is bogus, when believing in life and the beauty of faith, religion is just a story which tries to indoctrinate people into black and white thinking. Its unnecessary. Philosophy is everything. To be able to rationalize about what is true or accept others opinion is what creates progress, not reading in an ancient book which is nevertheless incredibly ignorant. Religion belongs in the past, we don't need idiocy.

  • @YOURINQUIRER I think you missed the point. I am pretty sure the intent of making a "religion for atheists" was more of a calling to make atheism a more solid philosophy. Using the tools that religion has used, and giving people what they inherently desire. As silly as it is to believe in fairies, and ghost and the like, it is just as silly to dismiss the function of those tales. I mean if you want to be adults about it, stop belittling some one because of what they believe.Respect goes bothways

  • @resuort "As silly as it is to believe in fairies, and ghost and the like, it is just as silly to dismiss the function of those tales."

    What is the function of those tales anyway? To have humans spend vast amounts of time chasing imaginary beings?

    "I mean if you want to be adults about it, stop belittling some one because of what they believe.Respect goes bothways"

    Respect is earned by demonstrating that you have something of value to others, not by entertaining delusions.

  • @resuort In fact, if you actually care about other people, you will inform them when they are mistaken. When their delusions are such that only ridicule can do the job, as is often the case with religions, then you ridicule them. They'll feel better afterwards.

  • @resuort Atheism is not a philosophy, it's the absence in a belief in a god or gods. If you are looking to make atheists more well grounded in philosophy, how would you possibly do that by making them more open to irrational practices?

    We tried this already. It failed, failed, failed. It was a failure. We've been more respectful than even the religious were to us & it didn't matter. They still despise us. They will always despise us or just be friendly with us in the hope of converting us.

  • I'd take almost any excuse to assemble publicly for times a private house gathering does not feel like enough, and to do so on a frequent, regular basis as a catchall for different people and their differing life-events. We can celebrate or mourn together or otherwise support each other, or simply mingle.

  • 14:55 "look at how religions are spreading ideas" No they try to impose it on you. They don't try to convince or to make your understand (convince and understand require proofs which must be found in reality not in faith)

  • @maximemeis111 Umm, it sounds like you've missed the entire point of this talk...

  • @Sasataf Well this talk is about what can atheist take from religion? Nothing is my answer. Taking their ways of spreading ideas is a really bad thing to do as they say "you have to believe it". They don't want to convince, they want to force their ideas. Thet make groups and so ne? Well it was not a chrisitian invention.

  • @maximemeis111 Ah, but you can't deny that the methods used by religious institutions to spread their beliefs and doctrines are very effective. So if we used those same methodologies to spread other non-religious ideas, then would you say the ends justifies the means? For example, spreading the "idea" on how to budget your spending, or what a balanced diet consists of?

  • @Sasataf No! for fuck sake! to win a gamble it's safer not to bet. Atheism is 'not' playing the game or answering loaded questions. Atheism is knowing the choice.

  • @Sasataf Writing a book and saying "it is the truth, believe it or you'll perish in hell" is an immoral way to spread ideas. Any atheist sprending his ideas like that, trying to blindly inpose rather than proove, trying to force rather than convince, has no more value to me than any believer in any religion doing the same.

  • @maximemeis111 Therefore, you have totally missed the point of this talk. Alain is focusing on the methods religions use to distribute their ideas...you are still focusing on the idea itself.

    To take your example, the "method" of distribution is the book. The "idea" that is being distributed is "it is the truth, believe it or you'll perish in hell".

  • @Sasataf ok I see the point now

  • @maximemeis111 I would make a point though. I'm really not for going to people's house on Sundays and tell them "here is what you think", like some christians do. I don't see any problem arguing with other people on video, comment, article,... they post, but going to people's house and saying "hey this is what we think and why we think that" doesn't seem the good thing to do for me. It's just an example.

  • 13:42 not fighting for the mind but against it. Rejection of reason and logic for faith is a destruction of man's mind.

  • 8:46 "what you'll say will need to be back up by really convincing ways of saying it" True for religion. Untrue otherwise. What you say must be backed up by facts.

  • 7:15 calendars were created by men's mind. All the calculs required did not come from religion but from reason

  • 4:5à "we are rational adults" Therefore, based on reality, based on the evidence of the senses you must be able to use logic to come to conclusions, not wait for other to tell you what to think.

  • 4:00 Morality does not come from society but from reality.

  • @maximemeis111 You want to develop that thought?

  • @dashiellv The first question one musk ask is"Why do I need ethics?" The second is "then what in reality gives rise to ethics?" The answer two the second is that man has free-will, the possibility to make choices. The answer to the first is man has no automatic code of actions and he must learn his way to survive and reach happiness. Therefore he must learn the values it requires based on its nature, based on reality. A code of value accepted by choice for that purpose becomes a code ot morality

  • 3:55 for guidance, they must find guidance by themselves, by reasoning on the nature of reality. They must ask themselves: why would I need a code of value? They need a code of value based on reality to survive and to be reach happiness. A code of value choosen becomes a code of morality.

  • 3:50 morality is to be found in reality, not in religion. Who can honestly say that christian morality is moral? God tells Abraham "kill your son" and the goood becomes to kill him and than he show up and says "by the ways I was kidding" and the good is not killing him any longer.

  • 2:00 if you think that an old church looks good, you are enjoying men's creativity and hability to build that building. Doesn't mean that you are attracted to religion.

  • 1:00 yeah he's right, it's to easy. Religion's purposed is to distroy what makes a human being human. It aims at destroying, evidence, reason, reality, logic,... (faith is a rejection of those values) Man's nature requires him to find his values to live and be happy. Christianity is based on destroying life. It teaches not to seek your good, not to enjoy your life. It's actually a sin against the nature of reality.

  • Set up a strawman, burn it down. Rinse, repeat.

  • There is no god,now lets act like those who believe there is.No,that is not going to work,unless your aim is to covertly turn atheism in to a religion which negates atheism.

  • According to Botton, propaganda can be good if used for the right reasons. So when exactly, is biased or misleading information used for the right reasons?

  • Its horrible that TED even allowed this. This guy is brutal