GAME OVERTHINKER V58: Heavens To Metroid - Revisited

[MsChaosDemon]

If 3.55 is referring to Nostalgia Critic's Let's Play of Bart's Nightmare (and the dates do seem to add up), I thought it was funny too Bob! I was so confused the next week when he started talking about the backlash.

[werotus]

02:55 To skip all pointless bullshit,

[swordhunter12]

While I still disagree with your stance on this game this was an interesting video and certainly better than the first.

[Lunarvx22]

It's nice to play devil's advocate sometimes and try to see all sides of an argument, but in this case you're dead wrong, Bob.

[werotus]

@Lunarvx22

Umm... You gonna explain that point of view or just randomly spew out an opinion without justifying it?

Let me make this easy for you: Why is he dead wrong?

Just answer that.

[JittersCaffeine]

Am I the only one who gets weirded out when he slips into his real voice?

[RevolutionaryLoser]

It's so true. If other M had been released 15 years ago, now we would make jokes about it in the same way we make jokes about Batman liking little boys or Pacman being a drug addict and it would all only make the characters more endearing.

I don't understand why Samus freezing up or being motherly makes her less of a badass. Ellen Ripley also had PTS and was very motherly and it only made her cooler because for all her frailty and emotions, she could still kick a xenomorphs ass for breakfast.

[ZayLong]

@RevolutionaryLoser badasses dont freeze up. simple.

[MrVuk64]

I have many issues with other m but the biggest is how it ignores the metroid prime games games that were far superiour to other m and clunky gameplay its okay the developers were trying something new but that dosent change the fact that it turned out half-assed ugh hate this game nintendo better make up for this in the future by not making other m 2

[TheMaveroid]

2:56 in case you are here for the the overthinking.

[Rubberman202]

STILL don't like Metroid: Other M. Glad you came out and explained yourself instead of just "calling out the trolls", even though the "trolls" seemed to be part of the vast majority opinion.

[McDonaldWilliamT]

Never did see the problem so many people had with Other M, if anything I LIKED seeing Samus being represented as a human being. Heck, that and I just enjoyed the game itself.

[dinggledoser]

i've never played other m but my brother did. every 5 minutes he'd march on down to my room and say something like "guess what just fucing happened!" or "This game sucks 'yo princess'!" also why does this game look graphicly so much shittier then Prime?

[dark297]

I never actually played other M, although when I heard that she froze up during an encounter with Ridley, it actually kind of made sense to me. Yes, she has killed the damn thing quite a few times, but that arguement ignores that, despite those successes, it was, at this point, clearly not dead, Her baggage over it killing her parents, combined with the frustration that having this thing not die no matter how many times she kills it renders her freezing up for a moment pretty understandable.

[xdearlifex]

If you don't want to see the whole "authorization" thing in terms of feminism (and I don't think it's necessarily horrible in those terms because samus is a soldier and she gets orders that she follows, who cares), then you can just see it in practical terms. It makes no fucking sense for her to turn on specific weapons when ordered. I know it doesn't make a ton of sense for her to find weapons in the levels, but why can't the weapons just be parachuted in? They did it in a really stupid way.

[th3vampan3z3l0rd]

@xdearlifex Err, samus is a bounty hunter, not a soldier. She isn't even properly hired, she just turns up at the bottle ship. As for the finding of the weapons, that made perfect sense. Wearing chozo armour, on a planet which had a large number of chozo, finding upgrades with protective statues mad by the chozo? It makes sense. And the weapons couldn't be parachuted in, the bottle ship is effectively isolated. Hence the distress signal. The order system was bullshit and we both know it.

[saultcrystals]

The main charge of misogyny related to this game isn't a blanket condemnation of Japanese Culture. It is because Team Ninja has objectified plenty of women in their other games like Dead or Alive (especially the volleyball game) and Ninja Gaiden. Extra Creditz did a great show on this a few months ago. The mangling of Samus as a character looks like a continuation of Team Ninja's style, that's all.

[chafenhimer]

@saultcrystals Team Ninja had nothing to do with the story! That was all done by Yoshio Sakamoto, one of the creators of Metroid who works for Nintendo. Team Ninja mostly helped with graphics. I wish Extra Credits did more research

[chosentonessournotes]

I'm currently replaying this, and I STILL can't see why everyone decided to twist and skew the story the way they did, and I STILL can't see why people hate this game so much. I have a fucking blast killing enemies, figuring out their weak points, solving puzzles and searching for hidden items. Yes, sometimes I let out an audible groan when I have to sit through a long cutscene, but it helps to flesh out a previously one-dimensional character. And I like it. Fuck the haters.

[FlameG102]

another fact that people forget concerning other M and Ridley, is that according to ninty, the primes are not canon to the storyline, they are gaidens I guess. or something.

making the storyline like this

Metroid - Metroid 2 - Super Metroid - Other M - Fusion

Meaning she has only fought Ridley twice before, (not counting the robot ridley thing in super)

both in games that did not feature too much character for samus outside of her relationship with the baby metroid.

[rkfan100]

I love Nintendo more than any other game company, but as a fan I feel that they have been reluctant to a) inovate their existing game series and b) create new series. They didn't do the best job with Other M but at least they were trying something new. In my opinion this is a positive sign for the future. I'm hoping that a future Zelda game will actually give Link a voice and better yet not be about saving the princess... again.

We have a ton of games where Samus doesn't talk. Let's be open.

[chosentonessournotes]

@rkfan100 Nintendo didn't develop the game. They handed development over to Team Ninja.

[chafenhimer]

@chosentonessournotes it was co-developed by team ninja and nintendo

[SergeantLuke]

@SubjectE Wait, no it's not. Ugh. Gotta watch the video before I comment next time.

[Surelog]

The Fuck should I know? It's a black and white photo.

[CrazyCheeseMagee]

Skip to 2:56 to avoid sitting through the tedious storyline stuff.

[Keanotix]

I would like to point out that i did enjoy a lot of this game, but most of those offending sections did bug me quite a lot. I forgot about the Ridley scene in my previous comment and how i find it strange she freaks in this but does the exact opposite at the start of Prime 1 ( which takes place BEFORE Metroid 2). Seriously, go watch the cutscene where she sees Meta Ridley for the first time and compare it to what she does in Other M. It makes no sense, especially when he shows up twice before OM

[Phyrior]

@Keanotix There's a slight difference that you had failed to take into account:

As far as Other M Samus was concerned, Ridley was DEAD. Deader than dead, the planet he was on was blown up, the entire zebesian 'pirate' culture destroyed. He was gone.

Then, imagine how she would have felt if, after all this trauma of having to fight the literal devil in her dreams time and again, he practically pops up out of nowhere in an environment not unlike the fires of hell?

[Keanotix]

@Phyrior Yes, it does make sense put that way, but consider this, the Ridleys before this came in a cybernetic form and (if I remember correctly) a Phazon form. I personally would find either of those ones much more terrifying. Although i have to admit, the idea that the little furball she finds earlier turning into Ridley would most certainly shock most people, but yet the clumsy setup failed yet again as most people would have guessed that twist a while ago.

[VAKenkaku]

@Phyrior The problem with that theory is that it's never mentioned in the game itself; it's purely speculation by the fans.

[seirahime]

@SubjectE

Bob obviously does, which is why he deletes comments about anyone pointing out the game was a massive financial failure.

[Hypershell]

I just wish all the people bitching about Samus's supposed submission to Adam would stop to take notice of what Samus does of her own free will:

She activates nothing other than missiles and bombs before meeting Adam.

After Adam dies, she delays activating the Gravity Suit until she's a split-second away from getting killed.

When the Bottle Ship self-destructs, she deactivates her Power Suit before escaping for no reason other than exercising herself as a Chozo-trained super athletic badass.

[Ketorulz]

Metroid needs a freaking reboot or at least go back to FPS again. Or better yet...incorporate both in one game, but...only pay homage to 2D with certain sections. A new story would be fine as well. Maybe it would be nice to have Kraid as a boss in 3D for once as well. He still hasn't had a proper 3D appearance in a Metroid game.

[talenlee]

If a large part of your justification falls to 'lots and lots of videogames are worse' doesn't work for me.

[BotmanR]

In any event, one thing that cannot be denied is that, whether it was deserved or not, Other M has performed poorly compared to the Prime games sales-wise, and given that there hasn't been anything heard from Nintendo about a new game, or the 25th anniversary, it seems like the Metroid series is now in the same precarious position as the Mega Man series.

And again, deserved or not, we appear to have Other M to thank for that.

[BotmanR]

Like I said before, I found this video far more agreeable then your other one (mainly due to your big disclaimer at the beginning where you said you don't disrespect people who disagreed with your opinion about the game.)

Too bad the same can't be said about the fanboys. Starting the countdown on how long it will take for any dissenting opinions will be thumbs downed like in the previous video.

[Sylocat]

@BotmanR The top-voted comments on the other video are disagreements.

[BotmanR]

@Sylocat Just checked it right now. The top comments have stuff like "Kudos to Moviebob" and how Other M was a fun game in them.And virtually every comment offering a contrary opinion criticizing the game has been buried in negative votes.

The disagreements were better represented a week or so ago when it was first uploaded, but not anymore.

[jgween1]

why do you sound really really italian in this episode

[Endocrom]

@jgween1 When he gets excited/flustered his real accent slips out.

[SerialKiller1986]

Did Bob just referenced Nostalgia Critic's Let's play video? o_O

[BotmanR]

@SerialKiller1986 The next time I get pissed off at one of Bob's opinions, I just need to remind myself: he actually found the NC's so called "Let's Play" of Bart's Nightmare to be funny. I now know that, on some level, I'm a better person then he is.

[jseeker1867]

Here is a piece of advice. Some people only come to the show for the ramblings about video games. You should probably have a scene skip annotation that separates the story from the subject. Just a suggestion, but maybe a good idea.

[lazyluigi101]

@jseeker1867 I concur.

[MetaGrave]

In terms of the Zelda naritive in regards to seperating the Triforce of Wisdom... this may be a flawed interpretation, but I always figured the eight dungeons were actually Hylian controlled under the watchful eyes of the elderly men whom you occasionally find in the dungeons. The baddies were all there because they were searching for the triforce pieces too. At least, that's how I always figured it.

[MobiusCoin]

@MetaGrave Whao... that's a way better explanation.

[Curttehmurt]

Valid story justifications, but I still feel the controls were a major detriment. The D-Pad is simply not good for 3 dimensional movement. Furthermore the sections in which you were confined to an over the shoulder view and forced to walk at a snail's pace in order to build tension were more annoying than tension building.

[Curttehmurt]

@Curttehmurt Also there were those forced first person sections where you had to notice something to trigger a cutscene, particularly of note is when they expected the player to notice GREEN blood on GRASS.

[ZhangHe2369]

And #2 Characterizing a character poorly is not better then having little to no character at all. What people where informed about Samus in the previous games "Lone wolf, capable bounty hunter, brave, competent, etc" where mostly inferred from the gameplay itself and very little hints of the story. Contrast that to the interpretation of Samus in other M and they don't even feel like they are the same person even though you barely know the first one. Sometimes less is more.

[ZhangHe2369]

There are two things that I'd disagree with you about other M and it's mostly based on perspective of art. #1: Authorship does not matter (to me), therefore what the audience thinks of your work matters more then what was intended by the author. To me, when Other M makes Samus "look" like she is an emotionless, submissive, trainwreck and voluntary puts herself into mortal danger, then reinforcing those point through gameplay, It does not matter what the intentions where on the development end.

[ItsAComment]

@ZhangHe2369

Logically if you intended to portray one thing but your audience saw it as something else then you've done a bad job of portraying it.

[ZhangHe2369]

@ItsAComment Kinda like Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle". He wanted to show the horrible conditions that workers had to put up during the industrial revolution, but all people could read about was how disgusting the meat packing industry was.

Here's a quote from Sinclair himself that sums this up nicely, "I aimed for the public's heart, but I hit them in the stomach."

[DarkmatterXIII]

P.S. If you're looking for a Metroid with a more old-school feel and good story telling; I highly recommend Metroid Fusion for the GBA if you haven't already picked it up.

[DarkmatterXIII]

I think you make some real good points, and you defended them really well. I never really considered the time compression mechanic, and that does settle some of my problems with this scene (my biggest beef with the game). I also found your thesis about retro story telling in modern mechanics insightful. Don't listen to the haters, you're doing great.

[90sCartoonMan]

Why is the Overthinker so sure Pyro and Cryo want to kill him if they froze him and just danced around him for 10 minutes?

[hcubeentertainment]

I agree with you on how the stories short comings stem more form incompetance than malance, but I disagree with you on how they should have fixed the problem.

[FEWarrior89]

I liked the game and also like the way your interpretations make me enjoy the game even more. Good work Bob

[ListenSilently]

I don't like the new metroid because it's shit and annoying. I don't give a fuck about the story or how bad it is, it's just a bad game

[DavCube]

I do feel that Bob was going after it the wrong way here about the power authorization. This was Samus' first mission where the situation at hand was unfolding as the game progressed, so following the commands of an organized group is just logical. Plus the fact that Adam had the ship's controls at his fingertips. Notice all the doors locking behind you? If Adam felt like it, he could have just locked Samus into a room if she just did whatever she felt like. The system's dumb, but makes sense.

[Fuzzy192006]

Just for the record: I disliked this because of the Ivan bullshit that sandwiches the actual rant.

[TBman256]

wth is small wonder?

[90sCartoonMan]

@TBman256 A sitcom from the 80's about a little robot girl.

[Keanotix]

I love how bob still ignores the concept of the chozos leaving behind artifacts and texts on their COLONIES of Zebes and SR388. Thats why the powerups where there in the earlier games. Those were chozo statues. Also the varia suit was almost always made available BEFORE the hot bits, not after like Other M. Go play Prime 1.

[KenshiImmortalWolf]

@Keanotix but prime came in the cube era meaning it is after the set of games he was using to explain the way things working. He barely touched on any metroid game, so much as the Nes era games not bringing up super metroid really or any handheld version either.

[Bradax24]

@Keanotix He has. Episode 40 showed that he thought it was just "okay" (compared to the praise that fans and critics have giving it). And I'm pretty sure the first person controls shrouded his view on the game itself and its mythos.

[alexandrite014]

I tend to skip the story segments, but "Ivan likes donuts. "

[ViewtifulRekk]

What I always resented about this episode was the implication that there was all these misinterpretations and cultural barriers and time dilation explaining away some of the "worst" cutscenes of the game, when the much simpler explanation was that it was just really really badly written, regardless of your opinions on Samus, her character, or Metroid as a whole.

Occam's Razor, dude.

[lycanfan]

While I respect your opinion (really, I do, Bob), I totally disagree. I do feel that (however unintentional it was) Samus' "reletionship" with Adam was twisted & domineering. Her not using her powers until he said so? Far dumber than the methods used in the old titles. I felt she was portrayed as weak & childlike, & the new persona she had for the game was degrading to her. & while it was unintentional, I do feel it was a bit sexist, & not because it was a Japanese game, that's stupid.

[lycanfan]

@lycanfan And I'm saying all that as someone who really isn't a Metroid fan. I don't think any of the games are bad, except this one, but they just never clicked with me. But, to me, they ruined Samus' character. And all the shots of her ass were just as sexually explotative as the ones in that godawful SSBB.

[SendoRoba]

I miss Krispy Kreeme...thats what I'm taking from this episode

[duneblythe]

9:00

Like sailor scout transformations, and digivolution.

[Minervacantdie]

I like it, it kinda reminds me of Arkham Asylum, though I'm more of a fan of Metroid than batman so I enjoyed Other M more. He's right though way too short and it would have been nice to see an unlockable "Samus Origin FMV" because I love how they depicted the end of Super Metroid, and I want to know where Samus got her powwers and armor and such.

[CaptainSweden]

No bob, you were wrong and you're still wrong.

[JoeMI60]

@CaptainSweden There is no right or wrong here. It's all subjective.

[munchie64]

@CaptainSweden *facepalm* 4:27