Gee now that turk the jerk is on MNSBC will you stop this? I am not sure who is worse on MNSBC, turk the jerk or Mr. Ed. They are both very mean is the way they speak about almost any Repub.
you guys DO know that even us republicans only use torture when absolutely necessary (like the prevention of the LA attack). we have waterboarded approximately 3 people in total. nobody likes to toture. hell, nobody even wants to go to war unless it is needed. in the case of the 3 guys that are waterboarded, no other way worked. especially with ksm who simply said "soon, you will know" when asked about the potential LA attack.
yes, because torturing for info is needed. while i do not support torture as the first and only method, but you can NOT ban the use of torture. other methods failed before the U.S decided to use torture. i defend torture as a last resort. i do not support using it as a first and only option, but i support using it when other methods fail.
Even as a lst resort it's stupid because it does not yield reliable information. The only use of torture is to elicit false information... like what the spanish did during the inquisition, the puritans during the witch hunt, or the communists to our soldiers- where we got the technique.
It NEVER works and is a waste of time. That whole argument has been shredded by historical evidence a thousand times, when are you going to get it?
you can get false information from EVERY technique. but with torture, you have a better chance of getting it. because they know that if they give false info, and the U.S finds out, the U.S is going to torture them again, so it is more likely to get info.
and terrorists aren't foreign soldiers so they don't count for the geneva contract, meaning it is legal to torture them. and what kind of torture method do we have? the worst is waterboarding.
Um, no. Torture uses fear and pain, which causes people to be LESS reasonable.
They will tell you what you WANT to hear, not the truth.
If they don't have the info you want, they will make it up, which they did. The CIA report showed that we did not get any useful information, except for the manufactured info that Cheney was looking for in order to justify his illegal war.
Plus, as Shep Smith said, "WE DON'T TORTURE!" It is illegal, immoral and helps the terrorists win.
what you want to hear is the truth. if they lied, they get tortured again. yes, torture might not give you good info. no method can. and nancy pelosi is always talking about how the CIA are a bunch of liars, so why would you believe them now? we don't torture for punishment. we torture to gain information. YES, you might not get info or you might get false info. but chances are greater that you will get good info. we only torture when all other methods fail. are you telling me that american
How do you tell the lie from the truth? Look, you aren't going to win because the facts are against you, and I'm not going to win because you don't care about facts or the truth. I don't know what you care about, but it certainly isn't about evidence.
i have provided with a link that is more up to date than this video, and that states that waterboarding DID work according to the CIA. you have yet to give anything in response other than trying to tug at my heartstrings. look, the terrorists could care less about you. if you were captured by them, you would be thanking GOD if all you were subjected to was waterboarding. it leaves no physical scar, nor does it kill people. and it gives info.
@gameragodzilla going by the last part of your statement shows that actually your knowledge on the subject is very limited indeed. MANY people have died from waterboarding. Over 100 detainees (that we know about) have died in US custody and who's deaths were classified as homocides from 2001 - 2008 meaning they didnt die from boredom. Many who have been waterboarded describes many prolonged adverse side effects which lead to a decreased functionality in life. have you ever been waterboarded?
@dagorian86 Waterboarding was only used on 3 people. Where do you get your stats from? If you count every instance in history, then yes, people have died. Still, the amount of people who were waterboarded by the CIA about terror attacks is 3, all of which were high ranking terrorists and didn't crack from any milder techniques.
@gameragodzilla So the CIA admit to 3 cases of waterboarding...so there must only have been 3 suspects?! But lets take those 3 cases - one of which was waterboarded 183 times, another 266. In the end the detainees in question had to lie to make the waterboarding stopped. My source? the BBC which revealed that at least 8 - 12 detainees died from torture in US custody up to the year of 2006. 108 overall which were either confirmed or suspected homocides. thats a war crime btw
Secondly, we DID ban torture. It is an international law. It is a travesty of justice that Cheney and Bush have yet to be arrested and brought up on charges.
So, what you call torture did not prevent attacks. How many attacks have we had here since 9/11 you MORONS? And anything they have done has been a walk in the park to what should be permitted. What would you do to get information from them? Invite them to tea and withhold the sugar cube unless they provide the information?
When there is another major attack because of fools like you, and there will be, it is only just that the people they get should be you and your family! Not those of who do their best to prevent it and are then persecuted by fools such as you!
Cheaney on 9/11 upon hearing the plane is 10 miles out and asked if the ORDER still stands "of course the order still stands have you heard anything to the contrary"
Cheney is OBVIOUSLY insane. Thank goodness Cheney is no longer in power.Dick Cheney is completely divorced from reality; doesn't even have a concept of what reality is. The Justice Department Cheney refers to was headed by Bush lackey Alberto Gonzales. NO serious legal observer takes Gonzales, Bybee and the other Bush bootlicking toadies seriously.Facts, legality, have NO meaning to the Bush/Cheney war criminals.
_Anyone_ concerned with the morals of a society should object to torture. Wether it works or not is not the main priority here. Its just as obvious as free speech or privacy. Its part of human rights as we know them.
The point of having ideals is that the long term effects outweight the short term ones. And that is precisely the case with torture. It is simply not what a civilised society should do.
so to anyone who thinks we torture, well obama does rendition, which is much worse. what they do to the people that we ship off to other countrys is much worse than what we do
most of the arguements by the liberals here can be countered with what happened on 24: Jack Bauer found out there was a bomb going to go off. He tortures a guy and finds the bomb. He defuses it and saves the people. However, he gets arrested for torturing.
So, let me get this straight, libs: not torturing a terrorist because it's against the law is more important than over 40 people on a bus ready to blow up. wow, libs, this is just pure stupidity.
i know. i'm not completely supporting everything about gitmo, but if the terrorist is known, then torture is justifible. the only thing that i see quite stupid about the torturers is not using lie detectors. utilizing lie detectors can help us determine whether a guy knows something or not, thus preventing us from accidentally capturing and torturing innocents.
if torturing worked then it wouldn't be a problem, now I know you have your thorough 24 "research" on torture, but this is a little more complicated than a tv show, I'm gonna hope im overreacting and you were really joking about that
i know it's more complicated, but the scenario can be applied to the real world. if torture is needed to save americans, then go for it. that's the point. i frankly don't care if a terrorist gets a boo boo if we can save AMERICAN lives with that. and like i said, lie detectors can help us determine whether someone knows anything or not, and then we can torture accordingly.
Know what would have been really funny? If Jack Bauer tortured the guy, the guy gives up some info, Jack goes to find the bomb, but oh look, the guy *lied*. And now the bomb goes off somewhere else.
Torture doesn't work. That is very, *very* well known. It only works in (badly written) fiction.
and that's where the goddamn lie detector comes in. what? you really think that torturing by itself works? no, people can just give up false info. if we have lie detectors (which we DO), then we'll know the guy lied and we torture him even more.
torturing doesn't work my ass. it works all right. gitmo stayed open under bush, and when was the last terrorist attack on our soil?
the last thing i wanna say is that even IF we aren't able to extract info, we still should torture the terrorists for some payback. terrorists have done worse things to our troops, and it's only fair for us to get revenge for the troops that were captured. torturing is justifible one way or another.
besides, if 24 was so poorly written, why is it one of the most popular shows on the planet?
because the way fiction works is that the more outlandish it is the more people like it the lord of the rings is huge twighlight to but its fiction just like 24 none are really based on the truth. look at how popular fox news is and everyone knows that it is pure fiction.
You can't use a lie detector on someone under torture or duress their emotions are too unstable to measure. Also there is a reason lie detectors are admissible in court, they aren't reliable.
i know there are some ways to fool a lie detector. one is by using a pill to suppress the face generating heat when lying (i don't think terrorists take those regularly). Another is a hell of a lot of concentration to keep that from happening (which i doubt you can do when you're being tortured). the lie detector can still tell if someone's lying even under duress. mythbusters proved that (episode 93). pain and stressful thinking didn't change anything. so lie detectors work.
i know there are some ways to fool a lie detector. one is by using a pill to suppress the face generating heat when lying (i don't think terrorists take those regularly). Another is a hell of a lot of concentration to keep that from happening (which i doubt you can do when you're being tortured). the lie detector can still tell if someone's lying even under duress. mythbusters proved that (episode 93). pain and stressful thinking didn't change anything. so lie detectors work.
the last attack on our soil was on 9/11 during one of bushes many vacations.and hey dumbo it happened on his watch how did he keep us safe the worst terrorist attack on us soil happened during his watch he was in charge and it happened i dont know how else to say it so that you understand that the bush kept us safe line is pure utter bullshit .
dude, bill clinton took off a lot of money from national security spending. bush can't change all that suddenly in 6 months. reagen didn't fix carter's mess within 6 months, but he fixed it. bush can't fix clinton's mess that quickly, either. and so the terrorists took that opportunistic moment to launch 9/11. Bush then finally fixed up national security, and there hasn't been an attack yet.
Clinton shifted the military from soviet era relic to a more compact modern strike force he shut down many obsolete projects .this upset the right wing and their weapon manufacturing contributors the truth is our military is beter off and has crushed all foes when opposed by traditional forces. Clinton also left behind a detailed strategy as to how to go after Osama and bush chose to ignore it just like he ignored the 911 memo the reason 911 happened is that bush stole the election from gore.
Lie detectors are no better than torture. The American Medical Association, The American Psychological Association, and the National Acadamy of Science have all consulted with congress, and have all said you can't rely on the polygraph. It just doesn't have any real basis in science. Its not because someone can use counter measures, its just impossible to determine what someone is thinking when their blood pressure goes up. Polygraphs aren't admissable in court for good reason.
There is a reason why we signed the Geneva Convention. Oh that's right, muslims are detainees, not prisoners of war. There used to be a time when America was smart and noble. Not this corrupt law breaking group of jerks.
@sabiki74 the guy said the UN Convention against toture, he is not talking about the Geneva convention, they are 2 different things. Geneva convention is for soldier, but the UN applies to everybody, no body can be torutured to get information, anyway forget the human side of it, it does NOT work, you would confess you killed your mother under toture to stop the pain, be sure of that
When are you draft dodger chickenhawks going to listen to the experts? When are you going to listen to those of us who have and are serving voluntarily in combat?
I predict you will NEVER listen because you don't want the truth, you want yes men who will help you with your real agenda which is to NEVER admit you were WRONG.
Since I'm not with the CIA, and I'm not the President, I can't release them as I please. The CIA, DOD, etc. have said themselves that they got good intel from it.
Powerful reply. Dumb thing indeed to think you should have to substantiate your claims to be believed just because I hold others to that standard, after all you have access to the secret "truth".
So, you are taking their word for it. The CIA and the DOD have a track record of lying. I don't buy the "top secret" stonewall. If attacks were indeed prevented, and potential attackers were taken into custody there is no reason for the details of the investigation to remain secret, unless the investigators did something ILLEGAL.
"I guess you don't understand me; I don't care if they did somethin illegal. I care that the country was safe from the end of 2001-2009 under their watch. "
You are a LAWLESS COWARD, who chooses safety over principles. If you want to see a "weak sister", look in the mirror.
You dont care if they did something illegal??? You dont care that the law was broken?? You think the ends (which they didnt even accomplish) justifies the means. Think really long and hard about what your saying. You willing to give up constitutional rights for a false sense of safety cultivated by fear tactics? Really????
zztopro. Consider this: In 1/2007 Alberto Gonzales (ex attorney general) argued his interpretation of the US Constitution to the Senate that US citizens are NOT expressly granted the inherent right to Habeas Corpus in relation to the Military Commission Act . The Supreme Court ruled against this argument and restored habeas corpus rights to detainees. The fact that he made this argument against US citizens is SCAREY!!
Cont. These are the people u feel kept us safe. These same people argued to the Supreme Court for the right to be able to take you off the street, accuse you of a crime, lock you up and detain you indefinitely without a trial.
ARE YOU SURE YOU DONT CARE ABOUT LEGALITIES?
They have attempted to change the US Constitution(which protects you) in order to further their agenda.
There are such thing as domestic terrorists. All they need is hearsay to detain you.
It's already happened to Arab Americans. You cannot defend that without coming off as a bigot, so whatever. They'll detain family members of suspected Al-Qaida members and torture them... So the next logical conclusion would be perhaps rendition of McVeighs family and waterboarding them to find him and using Military to catch him in our own country.
How many terrorists were killed from waterboarding?NONE, If making someone scared and uncomfortable is torture, then all the prisoners in American prisons are being tortured.
Torture defined by the UN Convention Against Torture (signed by Reagan in 1984 then signed into US law in 1994. Torture-any act which causes severe pain or suffering, mental or physical is intentionally inflicted on a PERSON (no distinctions made) to obtain a confession, information, or as punishment. To date- 98 detainees have died in US custody, 34 of those have been deemed homicides, 8 of which, were TORTURED TO DEATH- 2006 Human Rights First report & International Red Cross report.
the UN convention against torture is not limited to detainees /POW's. It protects all people from acts of torture, including you! A sheriff in Texas, while George Bush was governor, was sentenced to 10 years in prison for water boarding suspects and prisoners who were us citizens. So keep defending torture; This law protects everyone from being tortured by anyone.
Our servicemen and intelligence personnel did their jobs within the law. It's only Obama that has been talking about criminal prosecutions against our American heroes for keeping us safe.
Obama politicized national security and Cheney has called him on it. What Obama has already released is more damaging to national security than anything Cheney is asking to be released, yet Obama witholds this information.
Why? Because he knows his politicized attack suffers once we learn the truth.
WOW! Your just too damn ignorant, paranoid, irrational, simple minded, Holier that thou to deal with.
The solution to keeping us safe is allowing the talented men and women of the CIA, FBI, ARMY, NAVY, Marines, Air Force, Special Forces, ect. do their jobs without subjecting them to the prospect of criminal investigation/ prosecution by ordering them to torture (break the law) so that Cheny can get false info and allow them to focus on credible information. That is the solution!!!!!!!!
Waterboarding is now against US policy, per Obama, but it wasn't then, and it's 'then' that matters here.
You're right, TORTURE is against the law. But the discussion is whether what we did was torture. You're simply begging this question, and you think you can preach to me about proper argumentation?
I can concede that something is indeed a fact. But what I didn't concede as that waterboarding is torture -- this is just your opinion and not something you've established as fact, so it makes perfect sense to say that I don't concede it.
Please, spare me your intro to logic sermon and try backing up your words.
Cheney and the CIA say that the waterboarding worked, so this ineffectual argument is just you saying Cheney is wrong. And if Obama weren't tyring to cover his ass, he'd release the memos detailing what we learned because of the waterboarding.
In other words, you have no evidence for you claim, while Cheney has evidence, evidence which he's trying to make public, except Obama won't release the information because it makes dems look like the idiots they are.
This IS @ the ineffectiveness of torture & that torture is against the law. & that the CIA has very experienced interrogators that got accurate/credible data w/o torture. The reason why "the case" is not settled is because U have cheny trying to justify breaking the law! It doesnt matter if u dont think h20boarding is not torture, its not up 4 discussion it has been already deemed a crime by US LAW. "This case" is @ the US committing war crimes and accountability .
You have not made 1 fact based, intelligent or analytical argument. Beheading is a method of terrorizing not a method of interrogation. THAT is why they are called terrorist! By the way you don't "concede" a fact. You concur with it. Buy a dictionary!
Resorting to name calling is a sign of lack of of intelligence & the ability to make effective, thought provoking arguments!!
U R so predictably ignorant. Please take some time to educate urself on international & Geneva convention law which outline the rules of war. Stop taking the propaganda dil-do cheny&repubs give u & stop willingly putting it up ur *ss Torture does not work & is counter productive Torture is against WRITTEN US law. NO EXCEPTIONS! H2Oboarding fits in the definition of torture Torture is a form of extremism & america doing it makes us no better than islamic extremist, just American extremist !!!
u really think they follow the Geneva convention the whole ideal that you can regulate war is retarded just becasuse were stronger peace mongering idiots thought they can regulate it the truth is war is war when the idea is to win our enemy or us is not gonna hold back dont call me ignorant
the UN shouldnt even exist your weak ideals will destroy us all
Geneva convention, the Hague and other international rules of engagement of war ARE followed by the international community Of course extremist dont follow the rules of law That is what makes them animalistic inhumane terrorist. UR war mongering ideals/ conquer & rule with an iron fist theory is the very thing that perpetuates the never ending cycles of war and destruction. Go 2 UN page & read its purpose. TORTURE IS AGAINST THE LAW. NO EXCEPTIONS. Ignorant is as ignorant does. EDUCATE URSELF!!
i am educating myself next year will be my second year at florida state
i am not a war monger but if you look back thats the only war issues were resolved and yes being stronger nations all follow these laws true but i see no problem in treating these people like they animals they are like i said they dont follow these rules but were bound to them if we let go of these laws our issues would be resolved very fast the oldest tradition of war will keep going intill humans as one can move on
Of course it didn't produce any information. Anyone that knows anything about psychological warfare & intelligence gathering will tell you that torture is the last resort in extracting information because it mostly provides NO GOOD INFORMATION. A person in pain will say anything if it helps stop the pain, and most of the time is useless information that because of protocol, must be check. This is why is seldom use. Then again Cheney likes to shoot people in the face...
The TRUTH about the PREVIOUS administration is that IT TRIED to be FAIR, BUT you can't be FAIR with SOCIALISTS, they eat that shit right the fuck up!!!
When you have effectively become your enemy I think it's pretty safe to say that you've lost. You are now no better than the beast you're fighting.
I love how right-wing morality consists of becoming Darth Vader/Darth Sidious in order to "defeat" enemies. They talk about the barbarism of al-Qaeda as if to imply we should go to similar lengths. Well, what else can we expect from people who believe that raping rapists and cops beating suspects to a bloody pulp is good legal procedure?
Obama is ending harsh interrogation methods due to ethics concerns. The CIAs job is now harder but its the right thing to do, Obama assures them. Obama does not apply this same logic to abortion. Why not? Okay, you get an unwanted pregnancy. The easy way out is an abortion. But the ethical way out is to go through with having the baby. Sure, your job will be harder but its the right thing to do.
Honestly, I couldn't give a rat's ass if these crazy terrorists were "tortured" or not. Their idea of justice is beheading people and broadcasting it on Al-Jezeera. Get real people. These crazy bastards are watching this waterboarding debate and laughing their asses off.
no ones saying you cant rough people up to speak...but do you have to beat people up to get information out of them? imagine if every cop did that...exactly
totally different situation. these terrorists are war criminals, theyre not protected by the constitution. plus these guys know information that could save thousands of american lives.
dude get outta here you cant even prove that the terror suspects were even on the planes on 911 stop kissin ass nobody can protect you they cant even protect themselves. they dont know information that can save anything they need shit like this to happen so they can pass legislation on new "terror bills" if you think they have your best interest your an idiot.. 80% of the so called terrorist were basically kidnapped like lamumba ford its not a war on terror dude its a war for your mind.
Here is my law; Those who say they have the moral high ground are usually hypocrites. Those who say they are less than moral are usually being too hard on themselves.
TORTURE? within ten days of inauguration the obamanation had a brief filed at SCOTUS to overturn a 23 year old law which limits police powers during interrogations (aka"torture light") nancy pelosi needs to be "tortured" according to obot brief so she can remember. . .anything.
Our use of and complicity in, torture has done more to undermine our own democracy and freedom than Osama, Al Qaeda and the Taliban combined. We broke OUR OWN LAWS!
I don't get it. This is simple. Rachel Maddow said it best "Waterboarding is torture (defined as such under the Geneva Conventions and prosecuted several other times for being torture) and torture is illegal. The Bush Admin. authorized torture, therefore, they broke the law." There are many things in the world that are NOT black and white, this is NOT one of them.
yeah but MAYBE President Bush shouldn't have authorized torture in the first place. The only reason for torture is to get lies to back up your theories not actual useful information. All the actionable evidence the US got was from normal interrogation methods not torture
What I want to know is how the F*CK Bybee got past the Dems to get confirmed as a judge--even before the unredacted memos were released, it must have been obvious he was neck deep in justifying torture.
The reason I cannot stand CHeney is that he is not only a scoundrel, he is a smart scoundrel. He assumed all of this power as Vice PResident and then when asked about torture, he hides behind the guise of "the vice president has no power." He is the epitome of an evil genius
WTF??????President Obama on blocked releasing detainee abuse photos, he felt it would inflame anti-American opinion and endanger U.S. troops.
Godamn it, release the fucking photos! All of us should pressure the WH to release these photos, if you make a promise be a man Obama. As far as Anti-American opinion, who cares when the chief bad mouths his own country whenever he is OCONUS. Did not matter then should not matter now!!!!!!
I'm confused... it's against the law and it's documented that they did it and how much and all. But no prsecutions?
If Obama doesn't do something about this the US will never be able to tell anyone anything about human rights without having people laugh in their face.
Politics are all about passing the buck. They're designed to be, when America needs a Fall guy, it can go as high up as the Democrat or Republican President, but no further than that.
It's all about distractions, diversions, and finally scapegoats.
Just look at Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Feith, Bremer. None of them have military experience. For the cats at the top of the Neocon pyramid, it's their chance to hide their cowardice and appear to be tough guys. Pretenders. You can see the same shit in just about any high school.
you know im just glad that george bush gave up his seat as president instead of taking control of the military and threaten to stay in power indefinitely <_<
Pro-torture idiots keep ignoring the fact that it gives BAD intelligence it creates NEW terrorists.
Even if you think it can provide good intelligence here and there, there's no proof that traditional interrogation methods couldn't get the same thing, minus the bad intelligence and creating new terrorists.
yes, they should do anything to get information, who cares if it is torture or not ... whether it is torture is irrelevant ... this is the enemy we are talking about you idiot
Good. So the terrorists can do whatever they want to do. Good thinking. 9/11 was completely just! They wanted to affect American support for Israel, that is Satans work, and could do whatever they wanted to get their will. Nice.
I have admit Cheney is a genius. He is building a strong defense for his crimes. I hope he still goes to jail but he positioned himself in such a way that he is one of the least culpable of all the top people.
Torture doesn't work because it induces more false information then real info. If I'm I feel like I'm gonna die then I'll same I hope my mom burns in hell if I think it'll stop it, that doesn't mean its true.
"Remember what happened here, Bob." Actually, we don't remember because you never told us or showed us that you were using enhanced interrogation. Would you care to enlighten us Cheney?
just going from the title I call bullshit. 4 CIA have said on record that it prevented several attacks including a planned attack on the Golden Gate Bridge. (Maybe the wrong bridge) but that's the general idea.
It did not detour attacks. the info they retrieved by torture was false information leading to false alerts. They were saying anything they could to get the torture to stop. It's a known fact that torture is used to coerce false confessions. In this case, they were trying to get detainees to link Iraq to 9/11
and yet we didn't have any attacks here but every other place had bombings in their city every other week. Think about it. Oh and if you want to go into what really could be considered torture look up the S.A.S. and I.R.A. or better yet the Spetsnaz.
According to AQ it took them nearly a decade to plan 9/11. There's no proof or evidence that Bush/Cheney detoured one attack.. or that one was even planned on our soil since 9/11. They had evidence of an attack prior to 9/11 and discarded the intell... The one time they did have quality information of an attack... they ignored it.
Again with the same tired old argument, which isn't an argument at all. Because other people did worse things in the past, that means what we do isn't torture? How do you come up with non-sense like that.
So your saying that if one nation castrates a prisoner without anesthetic and afterward a nation only slices the penis. That the latter is NOT torture? Are you fucking retarded?
Do you remember WW2? Remember when the USA executed Japanese POW camp guards for using waterboarding?
Our so called torture methods are well within the Geneva Convention. The list of torture methods that the left wing nut jobs have been pissing and moaning about were laughable & left them with egg on there faces
Gee now that turk the jerk is on MNSBC will you stop this? I am not sure who is worse on MNSBC, turk the jerk or Mr. Ed. They are both very mean is the way they speak about almost any Repub.
bnjones28 9 months ago
Let's waterboard The Commie Turks next.
EnemyAce88 2 years ago
you guys DO know that even us republicans only use torture when absolutely necessary (like the prevention of the LA attack). we have waterboarded approximately 3 people in total. nobody likes to toture. hell, nobody even wants to go to war unless it is needed. in the case of the 3 guys that are waterboarded, no other way worked. especially with ksm who simply said "soon, you will know" when asked about the potential LA attack.
gameragodzilla 2 years ago
Are you defending torture?
Scardy 2 years ago
yes, because torturing for info is needed. while i do not support torture as the first and only method, but you can NOT ban the use of torture. other methods failed before the U.S decided to use torture. i defend torture as a last resort. i do not support using it as a first and only option, but i support using it when other methods fail.
gameragodzilla 2 years ago
Even as a lst resort it's stupid because it does not yield reliable information. The only use of torture is to elicit false information... like what the spanish did during the inquisition, the puritans during the witch hunt, or the communists to our soldiers- where we got the technique.
It NEVER works and is a waste of time. That whole argument has been shredded by historical evidence a thousand times, when are you going to get it?
Scardy 2 years ago 2
you can get false information from EVERY technique. but with torture, you have a better chance of getting it. because they know that if they give false info, and the U.S finds out, the U.S is going to torture them again, so it is more likely to get info.
and terrorists aren't foreign soldiers so they don't count for the geneva contract, meaning it is legal to torture them. and what kind of torture method do we have? the worst is waterboarding.
gameragodzilla 2 years ago
Um, no. Torture uses fear and pain, which causes people to be LESS reasonable.
They will tell you what you WANT to hear, not the truth.
If they don't have the info you want, they will make it up, which they did. The CIA report showed that we did not get any useful information, except for the manufactured info that Cheney was looking for in order to justify his illegal war.
Plus, as Shep Smith said, "WE DON'T TORTURE!" It is illegal, immoral and helps the terrorists win.
Scardy 2 years ago 2
what you want to hear is the truth. if they lied, they get tortured again. yes, torture might not give you good info. no method can. and nancy pelosi is always talking about how the CIA are a bunch of liars, so why would you believe them now? we don't torture for punishment. we torture to gain information. YES, you might not get info or you might get false info. but chances are greater that you will get good info. we only torture when all other methods fail. are you telling me that american
gameragodzilla 2 years ago
How do you tell the lie from the truth? Look, you aren't going to win because the facts are against you, and I'm not going to win because you don't care about facts or the truth. I don't know what you care about, but it certainly isn't about evidence.
Scardy 2 years ago
how are the facts against me?
i have provided with a link that is more up to date than this video, and that states that waterboarding DID work according to the CIA. you have yet to give anything in response other than trying to tug at my heartstrings. look, the terrorists could care less about you. if you were captured by them, you would be thanking GOD if all you were subjected to was waterboarding. it leaves no physical scar, nor does it kill people. and it gives info.
gameragodzilla 2 years ago
@gameragodzilla going by the last part of your statement shows that actually your knowledge on the subject is very limited indeed. MANY people have died from waterboarding. Over 100 detainees (that we know about) have died in US custody and who's deaths were classified as homocides from 2001 - 2008 meaning they didnt die from boredom. Many who have been waterboarded describes many prolonged adverse side effects which lead to a decreased functionality in life. have you ever been waterboarded?
dagorian86 1 year ago
@dagorian86 Waterboarding was only used on 3 people. Where do you get your stats from? If you count every instance in history, then yes, people have died. Still, the amount of people who were waterboarded by the CIA about terror attacks is 3, all of which were high ranking terrorists and didn't crack from any milder techniques.
gameragodzilla 1 year ago
@gameragodzilla So the CIA admit to 3 cases of waterboarding...so there must only have been 3 suspects?! But lets take those 3 cases - one of which was waterboarded 183 times, another 266. In the end the detainees in question had to lie to make the waterboarding stopped. My source? the BBC which revealed that at least 8 - 12 detainees died from torture in US custody up to the year of 2006. 108 overall which were either confirmed or suspected homocides. thats a war crime btw
dagorian86 1 year ago
Secondly, we DID ban torture. It is an international law. It is a travesty of justice that Cheney and Bush have yet to be arrested and brought up on charges.
Scardy 2 years ago
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So, what you call torture did not prevent attacks. How many attacks have we had here since 9/11 you MORONS? And anything they have done has been a walk in the park to what should be permitted. What would you do to get information from them? Invite them to tea and withhold the sugar cube unless they provide the information?
leestauf 2 years ago
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leestauf 2 years ago
When there is another major attack because of fools like you, and there will be, it is only just that the people they get should be you and your family! Not those of who do their best to prevent it and are then persecuted by fools such as you!
leestauf 2 years ago
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leestauf 2 years ago
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leestauf 2 years ago
Cheaney on 9/11 upon hearing the plane is 10 miles out and asked if the ORDER still stands "of course the order still stands have you heard anything to the contrary"
this cunt should be pout to death
keflar5 2 years ago
Cheney is OBVIOUSLY insane. Thank goodness Cheney is no longer in power.Dick Cheney is completely divorced from reality; doesn't even have a concept of what reality is. The Justice Department Cheney refers to was headed by Bush lackey Alberto Gonzales. NO serious legal observer takes Gonzales, Bybee and the other Bush bootlicking toadies seriously.Facts, legality, have NO meaning to the Bush/Cheney war criminals.
Paolo7219 2 years ago 10
_Anyone_ concerned with the morals of a society should object to torture. Wether it works or not is not the main priority here. Its just as obvious as free speech or privacy. Its part of human rights as we know them.
The point of having ideals is that the long term effects outweight the short term ones. And that is precisely the case with torture. It is simply not what a civilised society should do.
mattiassollerman 2 years ago
so to anyone who thinks we torture, well obama does rendition, which is much worse. what they do to the people that we ship off to other countrys is much worse than what we do
sirbillmcneal2 2 years ago
by rendition you mean the program started by the bush chaney administraition?
cjfilmproductions 2 years ago
most of the arguements by the liberals here can be countered with what happened on 24: Jack Bauer found out there was a bomb going to go off. He tortures a guy and finds the bomb. He defuses it and saves the people. However, he gets arrested for torturing.
So, let me get this straight, libs: not torturing a terrorist because it's against the law is more important than over 40 people on a bus ready to blow up. wow, libs, this is just pure stupidity.
Americans first, then terrorists.
gameragodzilla 2 years ago
Not every detainee is a terrorist.
Do some research.
And some weren't just tortured but raped and murdered aswell.
madson125 2 years ago
i know. i'm not completely supporting everything about gitmo, but if the terrorist is known, then torture is justifible. the only thing that i see quite stupid about the torturers is not using lie detectors. utilizing lie detectors can help us determine whether a guy knows something or not, thus preventing us from accidentally capturing and torturing innocents.
torturing + lie detectors = info
gameragodzilla 2 years ago
if torturing worked then it wouldn't be a problem, now I know you have your thorough 24 "research" on torture, but this is a little more complicated than a tv show, I'm gonna hope im overreacting and you were really joking about that
rsty614 2 years ago
i know it's more complicated, but the scenario can be applied to the real world. if torture is needed to save americans, then go for it. that's the point. i frankly don't care if a terrorist gets a boo boo if we can save AMERICAN lives with that. and like i said, lie detectors can help us determine whether someone knows anything or not, and then we can torture accordingly.
gameragodzilla 2 years ago
torturing doesn't work....
rsty614 2 years ago
Know what would have been really funny? If Jack Bauer tortured the guy, the guy gives up some info, Jack goes to find the bomb, but oh look, the guy *lied*. And now the bomb goes off somewhere else.
Torture doesn't work. That is very, *very* well known. It only works in (badly written) fiction.
GeneralBolas 2 years ago 2
and that's where the goddamn lie detector comes in. what? you really think that torturing by itself works? no, people can just give up false info. if we have lie detectors (which we DO), then we'll know the guy lied and we torture him even more.
torturing doesn't work my ass. it works all right. gitmo stayed open under bush, and when was the last terrorist attack on our soil?
gameragodzilla 2 years ago
the last thing i wanna say is that even IF we aren't able to extract info, we still should torture the terrorists for some payback. terrorists have done worse things to our troops, and it's only fair for us to get revenge for the troops that were captured. torturing is justifible one way or another.
besides, if 24 was so poorly written, why is it one of the most popular shows on the planet?
gameragodzilla 2 years ago
because the way fiction works is that the more outlandish it is the more people like it the lord of the rings is huge twighlight to but its fiction just like 24 none are really based on the truth. look at how popular fox news is and everyone knows that it is pure fiction.
cjfilmproductions 2 years ago 3
Dude... Remember Hitler?
He was responsible for more deaths than Saddam OR Osama. Besides, Saddam was a bigger threat to his people perhaps, than the US in general.
Give me a list of the Nazis we tortured to bring him down.
I'll wait.
nosferotica1 2 years ago 2
You can't use a lie detector on someone under torture or duress their emotions are too unstable to measure. Also there is a reason lie detectors are admissible in court, they aren't reliable.
FlyingFree333 2 years ago 2
i know there are some ways to fool a lie detector. one is by using a pill to suppress the face generating heat when lying (i don't think terrorists take those regularly). Another is a hell of a lot of concentration to keep that from happening (which i doubt you can do when you're being tortured). the lie detector can still tell if someone's lying even under duress. mythbusters proved that (episode 93). pain and stressful thinking didn't change anything. so lie detectors work.
gameragodzilla 2 years ago
A lie detector test cannot be given forcibly for obvious reasons. It is also not 100% percent accurate if it is voluntary anyways.
jakehubbb 2 years ago
i know there are some ways to fool a lie detector. one is by using a pill to suppress the face generating heat when lying (i don't think terrorists take those regularly). Another is a hell of a lot of concentration to keep that from happening (which i doubt you can do when you're being tortured). the lie detector can still tell if someone's lying even under duress. mythbusters proved that (episode 93). pain and stressful thinking didn't change anything. so lie detectors work.
gameragodzilla 2 years ago
the last attack on our soil was on 9/11 during one of bushes many vacations.and hey dumbo it happened on his watch how did he keep us safe the worst terrorist attack on us soil happened during his watch he was in charge and it happened i dont know how else to say it so that you understand that the bush kept us safe line is pure utter bullshit .
cjfilmproductions 2 years ago
dude, bill clinton took off a lot of money from national security spending. bush can't change all that suddenly in 6 months. reagen didn't fix carter's mess within 6 months, but he fixed it. bush can't fix clinton's mess that quickly, either. and so the terrorists took that opportunistic moment to launch 9/11. Bush then finally fixed up national security, and there hasn't been an attack yet.
gameragodzilla 2 years ago
Clinton shifted the military from soviet era relic to a more compact modern strike force he shut down many obsolete projects .this upset the right wing and their weapon manufacturing contributors the truth is our military is beter off and has crushed all foes when opposed by traditional forces. Clinton also left behind a detailed strategy as to how to go after Osama and bush chose to ignore it just like he ignored the 911 memo the reason 911 happened is that bush stole the election from gore.
cjfilmproductions 2 years ago
Lie detectors are no better than torture. The American Medical Association, The American Psychological Association, and the National Acadamy of Science have all consulted with congress, and have all said you can't rely on the polygraph. It just doesn't have any real basis in science. Its not because someone can use counter measures, its just impossible to determine what someone is thinking when their blood pressure goes up. Polygraphs aren't admissable in court for good reason.
brettski34 2 years ago 3
You're right. Just keep on torturing.
I mean, shit. One person can handle so much pain, right?
Torturing prevented, MADRID, it prevented LONDON...
Oh...
Damn... It didn't, did it?
OH WAIT, ON OUR SOIL!
Maybe they were too busy attacking Madrid and London to give a shit.
nosferotica1 2 years ago 2
Whats worse waterboarding or shot in the head? Obama didn't worry about due process when he ordered the Somali pirates shot!
Gamera49 2 years ago
When u r being tortured...u want to be shot in the head
clemssss 2 years ago
There is a reason why we signed the Geneva Convention. Oh that's right, muslims are detainees, not prisoners of war. There used to be a time when America was smart and noble. Not this corrupt law breaking group of jerks.
sabiki74 2 years ago 5
@sabiki74 the guy said the UN Convention against toture, he is not talking about the Geneva convention, they are 2 different things. Geneva convention is for soldier, but the UN applies to everybody, no body can be torutured to get information, anyway forget the human side of it, it does NOT work, you would confess you killed your mother under toture to stop the pain, be sure of that
donnomar 1 year ago
I agree, those who advocate torture are IDIOTS!!!
When are you draft dodger chickenhawks going to listen to the experts? When are you going to listen to those of us who have and are serving voluntarily in combat?
I predict you will NEVER listen because you don't want the truth, you want yes men who will help you with your real agenda which is to NEVER admit you were WRONG.
Fortunately, the truth is coming out!
danboone143 2 years ago 2
IDIOTS!!!
YoungTurkMorons 2 years ago
"Torture" works. There were plenty of reports that said that.
CIA, etc. have all said it worked when used correctly.
zztoproadster 2 years ago
"There were plenty of reports that said that. "
LINK TO ONE.
dlhitch2007 2 years ago
Since I'm not with the CIA, and I'm not the President, I can't release them as I please. The CIA, DOD, etc. have said themselves that they got good intel from it.
zztoproadster 2 years ago
You can not release them? How convenient...
KungPisstank 2 years ago
that was pretty dumb, and that is sayin a lot after talkin to some people on here
zztoproadster 2 years ago
Powerful reply. Dumb thing indeed to think you should have to substantiate your claims to be believed just because I hold others to that standard, after all you have access to the secret "truth".
I stand corrected.
KungPisstank 2 years ago
I stand.
zztoproadster 2 years ago
So, you are taking their word for it. The CIA and the DOD have a track record of lying. I don't buy the "top secret" stonewall. If attacks were indeed prevented, and potential attackers were taken into custody there is no reason for the details of the investigation to remain secret, unless the investigators did something ILLEGAL.
dlhitch2007 2 years ago
I guess you don't understand me; I don't care if they did somethin illegal.
I care that the country was safe from the end of 2001-2009 under their watch.
If they had to do things that weak sisters like you wouldn't do than so be it.
zztoproadster 2 years ago
I understand you perfectly:
"I guess you don't understand me; I don't care if they did somethin illegal. I care that the country was safe from the end of 2001-2009 under their watch. "
You are a LAWLESS COWARD, who chooses safety over principles. If you want to see a "weak sister", look in the mirror.
dlhitch2007 2 years ago
Sure.
zztoproadster 2 years ago
You dont care if they did something illegal??? You dont care that the law was broken?? You think the ends (which they didnt even accomplish) justifies the means. Think really long and hard about what your saying. You willing to give up constitutional rights for a false sense of safety cultivated by fear tactics? Really????
BrownC6H12O6 2 years ago
zztopro. Consider this: In 1/2007 Alberto Gonzales (ex attorney general) argued his interpretation of the US Constitution to the Senate that US citizens are NOT expressly granted the inherent right to Habeas Corpus in relation to the Military Commission Act . The Supreme Court ruled against this argument and restored habeas corpus rights to detainees. The fact that he made this argument against US citizens is SCAREY!!
BrownC6H12O6 2 years ago
Cont. These are the people u feel kept us safe. These same people argued to the Supreme Court for the right to be able to take you off the street, accuse you of a crime, lock you up and detain you indefinitely without a trial.
ARE YOU SURE YOU DONT CARE ABOUT LEGALITIES?
They have attempted to change the US Constitution(which protects you) in order to further their agenda.
BrownC6H12O6 2 years ago
lol War is not the same as an everyday AMerican citizen....
zztoproadster 2 years ago
Duhhh!
Soooo sad that your so limited in thought.
think, if you can , about the SLIPPERY SLOPE your so willing to voluntarily ready to slide down.
BrownC6H12O6 2 years ago
There are such thing as domestic terrorists. All they need is hearsay to detain you.
It's already happened to Arab Americans. You cannot defend that without coming off as a bigot, so whatever. They'll detain family members of suspected Al-Qaida members and torture them... So the next logical conclusion would be perhaps rendition of McVeighs family and waterboarding them to find him and using Military to catch him in our own country.
Everyone supports SOME KIND of fascism.
nosferotica1 2 years ago
Dude, I don't care. I stop reading this crap usually after the first sentence.
I feel the way I do and that's it.
Torture, torture, and then get some more torture.
zztoproadster 2 years ago
How many terrorists were killed from waterboarding?NONE, If making someone scared and uncomfortable is torture, then all the prisoners in American prisons are being tortured.
Gamera49 2 years ago
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Pseudobadger 2 years ago
Torture defined by the UN Convention Against Torture (signed by Reagan in 1984 then signed into US law in 1994. Torture-any act which causes severe pain or suffering, mental or physical is intentionally inflicted on a PERSON (no distinctions made) to obtain a confession, information, or as punishment. To date- 98 detainees have died in US custody, 34 of those have been deemed homicides, 8 of which, were TORTURED TO DEATH- 2006 Human Rights First report & International Red Cross report.
BrownC6H12O6 2 years ago
haha Hell Yes!
OORAH!
zztoproadster 2 years ago
the UN convention against torture is not limited to detainees /POW's. It protects all people from acts of torture, including you! A sheriff in Texas, while George Bush was governor, was sentenced to 10 years in prison for water boarding suspects and prisoners who were us citizens. So keep defending torture; This law protects everyone from being tortured by anyone.
BrownC6H12O6 2 years ago
When are they gonna open up a walk-in waterboarding clinic for all these retards that still consider it not torture.
TekLok 2 years ago 3
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i dont see why people think you can regulate war in an all out war with any nation 3rd world or any these laws wont make a difernce
and obamas got a good way of making america out to bet the bad guy
but were trying to protect our people first
why treat these people like humans when they dont treat us the same
pshaggy8 2 years ago
Our servicemen and intelligence personnel did their jobs within the law. It's only Obama that has been talking about criminal prosecutions against our American heroes for keeping us safe.
Obama politicized national security and Cheney has called him on it. What Obama has already released is more damaging to national security than anything Cheney is asking to be released, yet Obama witholds this information.
Why? Because he knows his politicized attack suffers once we learn the truth.
braininahat 2 years ago
Cease with the moronic Obama mantra that our techniques increase terrorist activity. What nonsense.
Your simplistic conception of the world is what makes you evil and its accomplice.
And to prove it, tell us your alternative plan for saving thousands of American lives given the circumstances we found ourselves in ater 9/11?
Obama attacked Bush for his methods and yet has adopted almost all of them. Why? Because Obama doesn't care about America, just about getting elected.
braininahat 2 years ago
WOW! Your just too damn ignorant, paranoid, irrational, simple minded, Holier that thou to deal with.
The solution to keeping us safe is allowing the talented men and women of the CIA, FBI, ARMY, NAVY, Marines, Air Force, Special Forces, ect. do their jobs without subjecting them to the prospect of criminal investigation/ prosecution by ordering them to torture (break the law) so that Cheny can get false info and allow them to focus on credible information. That is the solution!!!!!!!!
BrownC6H12O6 2 years ago 2
Waterboarding is now against US policy, per Obama, but it wasn't then, and it's 'then' that matters here.
You're right, TORTURE is against the law. But the discussion is whether what we did was torture. You're simply begging this question, and you think you can preach to me about proper argumentation?
braininahat 2 years ago
I can concede that something is indeed a fact. But what I didn't concede as that waterboarding is torture -- this is just your opinion and not something you've established as fact, so it makes perfect sense to say that I don't concede it.
Please, spare me your intro to logic sermon and try backing up your words.
braininahat 2 years ago
Cheney and the CIA say that the waterboarding worked, so this ineffectual argument is just you saying Cheney is wrong. And if Obama weren't tyring to cover his ass, he'd release the memos detailing what we learned because of the waterboarding.
In other words, you have no evidence for you claim, while Cheney has evidence, evidence which he's trying to make public, except Obama won't release the information because it makes dems look like the idiots they are.
braininahat 2 years ago
BrownC, you are such a moron!
If you think this case gets settled by simply pointing to the Geneva Convention, then why hasn't it been settled, stupid?
Even if waterboarding constitutes torture (which I don't concede), then how is that equivalent to beheading innocent civilians?
Stop being so f-ing braindead enough to realize that you're a propaganda machine for terrorists!
Your stupidity is enormous.
braininahat 2 years ago
This IS @ the ineffectiveness of torture & that torture is against the law. & that the CIA has very experienced interrogators that got accurate/credible data w/o torture. The reason why "the case" is not settled is because U have cheny trying to justify breaking the law! It doesnt matter if u dont think h20boarding is not torture, its not up 4 discussion it has been already deemed a crime by US LAW. "This case" is @ the US committing war crimes and accountability .
BrownC6H12O6 2 years ago
You have not made 1 fact based, intelligent or analytical argument. Beheading is a method of terrorizing not a method of interrogation. THAT is why they are called terrorist! By the way you don't "concede" a fact. You concur with it. Buy a dictionary!
Resorting to name calling is a sign of lack of of intelligence & the ability to make effective, thought provoking arguments!!
BrownC6H12O6 2 years ago
yeah but id rather do this to people who want to kill us for being americans
THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH IT
people have the fake idea that there are laws to war
like they terrorist follow them
these people whanna kill us id do anything to them to save one life islamic extremism must be sqashed
thats it falt out liberal ideals must be squashed to
pshaggy8 2 years ago
U R so predictably ignorant. Please take some time to educate urself on international & Geneva convention law which outline the rules of war. Stop taking the propaganda dil-do cheny&repubs give u & stop willingly putting it up ur *ss Torture does not work & is counter productive Torture is against WRITTEN US law. NO EXCEPTIONS! H2Oboarding fits in the definition of torture Torture is a form of extremism & america doing it makes us no better than islamic extremist, just American extremist !!!
BrownC6H12O6 2 years ago
id rather american extrimist as u say
u really think they follow the Geneva convention the whole ideal that you can regulate war is retarded just becasuse were stronger peace mongering idiots thought they can regulate it the truth is war is war when the idea is to win our enemy or us is not gonna hold back dont call me ignorant
the UN shouldnt even exist your weak ideals will destroy us all
pshaggy8 2 years ago
Geneva convention, the Hague and other international rules of engagement of war ARE followed by the international community Of course extremist dont follow the rules of law That is what makes them animalistic inhumane terrorist. UR war mongering ideals/ conquer & rule with an iron fist theory is the very thing that perpetuates the never ending cycles of war and destruction. Go 2 UN page & read its purpose. TORTURE IS AGAINST THE LAW. NO EXCEPTIONS. Ignorant is as ignorant does. EDUCATE URSELF!!
BrownC6H12O6 2 years ago
i am educating myself next year will be my second year at florida state
i am not a war monger but if you look back thats the only war issues were resolved and yes being stronger nations all follow these laws true but i see no problem in treating these people like they animals they are like i said they dont follow these rules but were bound to them if we let go of these laws our issues would be resolved very fast the oldest tradition of war will keep going intill humans as one can move on
pshaggy8 2 years ago
i dont see why people think you can regulate war in an all out war with any nation 3rd world or any these laws wont make a difernce
and obamas got a good way of making america out to bet the bad guy
but were trying to protect our people first
why treat these people like humans when they dont treat us the same
pshaggy8 2 years ago
Of course it didn't produce any information. Anyone that knows anything about psychological warfare & intelligence gathering will tell you that torture is the last resort in extracting information because it mostly provides NO GOOD INFORMATION. A person in pain will say anything if it helps stop the pain, and most of the time is useless information that because of protocol, must be check. This is why is seldom use. Then again Cheney likes to shoot people in the face...
JaggerBacardi 2 years ago
Cheney is so FUCKING intelligent compared to all of you.
Dontgupt208 2 years ago
Cheney is a FUCKING nazi and should be shot, execution style.
Zackerybob 2 years ago
Cheney ROCKS !!!!!
Dontgupt208 2 years ago
The TRUTH about the PREVIOUS administration is that IT TRIED to be FAIR, BUT you can't be FAIR with SOCIALISTS, they eat that shit right the fuck up!!!
..
Dontgupt208 2 years ago
omg this is stupid it does save a lifes make thous mother fucker scared of us
Kroupa44 2 years ago
When you have effectively become your enemy I think it's pretty safe to say that you've lost. You are now no better than the beast you're fighting.
I love how right-wing morality consists of becoming Darth Vader/Darth Sidious in order to "defeat" enemies. They talk about the barbarism of al-Qaeda as if to imply we should go to similar lengths. Well, what else can we expect from people who believe that raping rapists and cops beating suspects to a bloody pulp is good legal procedure?
A86 2 years ago
Obama is ending harsh interrogation methods due to ethics concerns. The CIAs job is now harder but its the right thing to do, Obama assures them. Obama does not apply this same logic to abortion. Why not? Okay, you get an unwanted pregnancy. The easy way out is an abortion. But the ethical way out is to go through with having the baby. Sure, your job will be harder but its the right thing to do.
fulbert4605 2 years ago
boob
TOXIC00L 2 years ago
Honestly, I couldn't give a rat's ass if these crazy terrorists were "tortured" or not. Their idea of justice is beheading people and broadcasting it on Al-Jezeera. Get real people. These crazy bastards are watching this waterboarding debate and laughing their asses off.
Jacktwo04 2 years ago
no ones saying you cant rough people up to speak...but do you have to beat people up to get information out of them? imagine if every cop did that...exactly
guitarista1988 2 years ago 2
totally different situation. these terrorists are war criminals, theyre not protected by the constitution. plus these guys know information that could save thousands of american lives.
redsoxx2424 2 years ago
dude get outta here you cant even prove that the terror suspects were even on the planes on 911 stop kissin ass nobody can protect you they cant even protect themselves. they dont know information that can save anything they need shit like this to happen so they can pass legislation on new "terror bills" if you think they have your best interest your an idiot.. 80% of the so called terrorist were basically kidnapped like lamumba ford its not a war on terror dude its a war for your mind.
getyoasshome 2 years ago
Officer Michael Urbina, Sharnice Gartrell and Naima Reed brutally beat up a woman at Reagan National Airport.
The Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority Police pressed fake charges against her to somehow justify the beating.
She has permanent brain damage as a result of the concussion blow Officer Michael Urbina gave her when he beat her.
There needs to be a federal agency policing the police. End torture at Guantanamo. End torture at Reagan National Airport.
paolonutuni 2 years ago
fuck cheney! god damn it the terrorist have already won! When we're doing things more horrifying then the terrorists, we fucking lost.
GOD DAMN AMERICA!
Pull0utBoy 2 years ago 7
God, this piece of shit is just like fuckin bush, 99% of his lies aren't even true!
dsspike51 2 years ago
"yeah! torture rocks!!"
Here is my law; Those who say they have the moral high ground are usually hypocrites. Those who say they are less than moral are usually being too hard on themselves.
gonyea12 2 years ago
I hope when this sack of shit is arrested someone uses "enhanced enterrigation tactics" on him!
dsspike51 2 years ago 2
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takeromac 2 years ago
TORTURE? within ten days of inauguration the obamanation had a brief filed at SCOTUS to overturn a 23 year old law which limits police powers during interrogations (aka"torture light") nancy pelosi needs to be "tortured" according to obot brief so she can remember. . .anything.
PATRIOT ACT PART 2? search this:
"michigan vs. jackson obama supreme court"
CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN
wolfgangfaust 2 years ago
Our use of and complicity in, torture has done more to undermine our own democracy and freedom than Osama, Al Qaeda and the Taliban combined. We broke OUR OWN LAWS!
afrosaxxon 2 years ago 5
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your intelect is overrated
uhhh, before you go commenting on another person's intellect, it is spelled with 2 L's !
chigong980 2 years ago
seriously, doesn't that last quote from cheney totally make it seem like Bush actually had no clue what was going on?
"i have even reason to believe he knew...he knew a great deal about the program, he BASICALLY authorized it"
isn't this one of those things that the president should have thoroughly studied and authorized it fully understanding what he was doing?
Bush seems dumb enough to just sign whatever cheney says to
lifewithoutcash 2 years ago
I couldn't finish this video. Utter bastard, Cheney is.
shadowcnidarian 2 years ago
I don't get it. This is simple. Rachel Maddow said it best "Waterboarding is torture (defined as such under the Geneva Conventions and prosecuted several other times for being torture) and torture is illegal. The Bush Admin. authorized torture, therefore, they broke the law." There are many things in the world that are NOT black and white, this is NOT one of them.
lamborger 2 years ago 5
yeah but MAYBE President Bush shouldn't have authorized torture in the first place. The only reason for torture is to get lies to back up your theories not actual useful information. All the actionable evidence the US got was from normal interrogation methods not torture
moxie1889 2 years ago 2
What I want to know is how the F*CK Bybee got past the Dems to get confirmed as a judge--even before the unredacted memos were released, it must have been obvious he was neck deep in justifying torture.
GrownupPhan 2 years ago
Ah, so this torture-apology-tour Cheney is on isn't really about defending torture -- it's about defending HIM. Makes sense.
robbe21 2 years ago 3
The reason I cannot stand CHeney is that he is not only a scoundrel, he is a smart scoundrel. He assumed all of this power as Vice PResident and then when asked about torture, he hides behind the guise of "the vice president has no power." He is the epitome of an evil genius
bluesboy25000 2 years ago 4
the classic chickenhawk,one of historys biggest.
znotty 2 years ago
WTF??????President Obama on blocked releasing detainee abuse photos, he felt it would inflame anti-American opinion and endanger U.S. troops.
Godamn it, release the fucking photos! All of us should pressure the WH to release these photos, if you make a promise be a man Obama. As far as Anti-American opinion, who cares when the chief bad mouths his own country whenever he is OCONUS. Did not matter then should not matter now!!!!!!
dkkght46 2 years ago 2
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"...he should be brought to trial as a war criminal and hung and shot."
Propagandhi900 2 years ago
Watch how Cheney answers the question about what knowledge Bush had about the waterboarding.
He Hmmms & Haaaawws & said Bush "basically" knew -- which tells me Cheney was calling the shots but is now trying to push off on cheney.
DillonX 2 years ago
Cheney is SNITCH!!!!
Mplay1983 2 years ago 2
when i go to the marines I'll bring terror to our enemies I can't wait till boot camp
cancelmyjobDOTcom 2 years ago
lol, you're going to bring terror to terrorists? Doesn't that make you a terrorist? :P
Dane42o 2 years ago
I'm confused... it's against the law and it's documented that they did it and how much and all. But no prsecutions?
If Obama doesn't do something about this the US will never be able to tell anyone anything about human rights without having people laugh in their face.
''Human rights?" "Guantanamo. Abu Ghraib." Right.
agriope23 2 years ago 7
Exactly right. Bush and his administration need to be in jail, starting with Dick Cheny.
Savior20061 2 years ago 2
Why do the Chicken Hawks and Republicans love Torture so much?
Mommy not hold them enough when they were babies?
SATANSbankers 2 years ago 2
Politics are all about passing the buck. They're designed to be, when America needs a Fall guy, it can go as high up as the Democrat or Republican President, but no further than that.
It's all about distractions, diversions, and finally scapegoats.
SATANSbankers 2 years ago
Just look at Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Feith, Bremer. None of them have military experience. For the cats at the top of the Neocon pyramid, it's their chance to hide their cowardice and appear to be tough guys. Pretenders. You can see the same shit in just about any high school.
enviops 2 years ago
you know im just glad that george bush gave up his seat as president instead of taking control of the military and threaten to stay in power indefinitely <_<
cartrifride 2 years ago
and you people voted for this peice of shit.
yourmajezty 2 years ago
Pro-torture idiots keep ignoring the fact that it gives BAD intelligence it creates NEW terrorists.
Even if you think it can provide good intelligence here and there, there's no proof that traditional interrogation methods couldn't get the same thing, minus the bad intelligence and creating new terrorists.
Encyclopeteia 2 years ago 2
Its sad, but its up to us to remember this shit. There will be no justice served.
dustmundo 2 years ago
This settles it. The 'debate' over torture, if there ever was one, is over. It was all for nothing, what a freaking mess.
Khazule 2 years ago
yes, they should do anything to get information, who cares if it is torture or not ... whether it is torture is irrelevant ... this is the enemy we are talking about you idiot
zuzanarox 2 years ago
the usa does not torture. plan and simple
ltdan676 2 years ago
Good. So the terrorists can do whatever they want to do. Good thinking. 9/11 was completely just! They wanted to affect American support for Israel, that is Satans work, and could do whatever they wanted to get their will. Nice.
GnosticAtheist 2 years ago
if I need to get something out of the head of a filthy terrorist scum I'll use a aluminum baseball bat. YEAH!!
friction00815 2 years ago
Put away childish things.
dinobrya 2 years ago 2
I have admit Cheney is a genius. He is building a strong defense for his crimes. I hope he still goes to jail but he positioned himself in such a way that he is one of the least culpable of all the top people.
ram8704 2 years ago 2
Torture doesn't work because it induces more false information then real info. If I'm I feel like I'm gonna die then I'll same I hope my mom burns in hell if I think it'll stop it, that doesn't mean its true.
blacklite911 2 years ago 4
torture rocks my socks
WKaliberr 2 years ago
"Remember what happened here, Bob." Actually, we don't remember because you never told us or showed us that you were using enhanced interrogation. Would you care to enlighten us Cheney?
wisdumcube 2 years ago
just going from the title I call bullshit. 4 CIA have said on record that it prevented several attacks including a planned attack on the Golden Gate Bridge. (Maybe the wrong bridge) but that's the general idea.
gamingeagle19 2 years ago
and who told you that? fox news?
superjeff14 2 years ago
what part of "on the record" did you not understand? they have appeared on Fox and O'Reilly and said that many times. They still say it.
gamingeagle19 2 years ago
It did not detour attacks. the info they retrieved by torture was false information leading to false alerts. They were saying anything they could to get the torture to stop. It's a known fact that torture is used to coerce false confessions. In this case, they were trying to get detainees to link Iraq to 9/11
Michellemlm 2 years ago
and yet we didn't have any attacks here but every other place had bombings in their city every other week. Think about it. Oh and if you want to go into what really could be considered torture look up the S.A.S. and I.R.A. or better yet the Spetsnaz.
gamingeagle19 2 years ago
According to AQ it took them nearly a decade to plan 9/11. There's no proof or evidence that Bush/Cheney detoured one attack.. or that one was even planned on our soil since 9/11. They had evidence of an attack prior to 9/11 and discarded the intell... The one time they did have quality information of an attack... they ignored it.
Michellemlm 2 years ago 2
Again with the same tired old argument, which isn't an argument at all. Because other people did worse things in the past, that means what we do isn't torture? How do you come up with non-sense like that.
megamarsvin 2 years ago 2
Just because one country does something worse than another, it doesn't make the less worse thing not torture.
Propagandhi900 2 years ago 3
actually it does. What they do is worse than us by a wide margin but what they do is accepted. We waterboard and it's now a crime.
gamingeagle19 2 years ago
The how about someone waterboards you?
CallMeMrNameless 2 years ago
So your saying that if one nation castrates a prisoner without anesthetic and afterward a nation only slices the penis. That the latter is NOT torture? Are you fucking retarded?
Do you remember WW2? Remember when the USA executed Japanese POW camp guards for using waterboarding?
Grow up
Propagandhi900 2 years ago
You are the one that's fucking retarded. If you think all the Japanese did was waterboard you are hopeless. Look up what they did fucktard.
gamingeagle19 2 years ago
No. But There were specific cases where Japanese soldiers were executed by the USA for SPECIFICALLY Waterboarding!
You really are an idiot. Why don't you go get waterboarded. Make a video of it. Let us see ur face as you cry for mama afterward.
Propagandhi900 2 years ago
There is a reason why torture is agaisnt international convension; maybe if you were taken without a trial and interogated youd change your mind.
wallrush00 2 years ago
I know those organizations from Call of Duty 4!!!
blacklite911 2 years ago
What tactics is he talking about? The bitch slap? Insects? I mean seriously what torture is this douche cookie talking about?
slwfreez 2 years ago
See Reference: Geneva Convention
FyreDeity 2 years ago
Our so called torture methods are well within the Geneva Convention. The list of torture methods that the left wing nut jobs have been pissing and moaning about were laughable & left them with egg on there faces
slwfreez 2 years ago
Waterboarded is a torture. Many people can't do waterboarding for more then a few seconds. Its a dangerous thing and is illegal.
Paiateyouftw 2 years ago 4