Fritz Reiner Conducts Beethoven (vaimusic.com)

[elainebmack]

What a face Reiner had. Eeeck!!!

[TheGreenHornist]

Reiner's stick wielding is useless, but his scowl says "I'll kill you if your don't get this right," There is nothing here to confirm the moniker he earned as "the pocket metronome" (he reportedly fired a trumpet player who brought field glasses to rehearsal in order to see his beat). But what a martinet. I love the results he got, though,

[MrPoupard]

Up to today I didn't even know what he looked like, I know the CSO was a fine instrument under his direction and I used to have an ECA Victrola LP of Rossini Overtures which may be unsurrpassable ..... but I have to say I find this Beethoven perfunctory and pedestrian ....

[kjdaugirdas]

I heard a recording of Reiner doing Stravinsky's "Song of the Nightingale" and it was awesome. This Beethoven, though... not a fan. He looks stiff, and the orchestra.. well, sounds stiff. This piece requires a much more lithe sound. The transition at 4:47 to the 6/8 section is weird too.. the orchestra almost stops.

[SatchmoSings]

@kjdaugirdas Toscanini's 1936 recording of Beethoven's Seventh is the one that supposedly "sets the standard."

However, I would suggest Reiner's 1954 recording of Beethoven's Third; it is truly sublime.

You can read my review of it on "Amazon."

[SatchmoSings]

@kjdaugirdas Toscanini's 1936 recording of Beethoven's Seventh is the one that supposedly "sets the standard."

However, I would suggest Reiner's 1954 recording of Beethoven's Third; it is truly sublime.

You can read my review of it on "Amazon."

[SatchmoSings]

@kjdaugirdas Toscanini's 1936 recording of Beethoven's Seventh is the one that supposedly "sets the standard."

However, I would suggest Reiner's 1954 recording of Beethoven's Third; it is truly sublime.

You can read my review of it on "Amazon."

[poopoo111222333]

and just one of the worst human beings ever!

[ozowei]

Just one of the greatest conductors ever!

[poopoo111222333]

I'd like to slap that stupid look off of his face.

What an ASSHOLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[shehry1shehry]

At 5:18 he brandishes his baton like a sword.

[poopoo111222333]

fritz dracula

[davidc5191]

@poopoo111222333 Absolutely - always thought he resembles fellow Hungarian Bela Lugosi

[elainebmack]

@davidc5191 I did too!

[radiootoo]

Today is the first day I ever SAW Herr Reiner, after over 50 years' listens . . . WOW . . .

[GTMGUNN]

Tremendous focus. I love watching his eyebrows. Brilliant!

[skrzypaczkahl]

I wander how he would fare at today's auditions......

[metteholm75]

Nonetheless, he is fantastic.

[metteholm75]

"Reiner was a strict disciplinarian and achieved his results despite a reputation as sarcastic, nasty and even sadistic.  His preparation was fanatic. Irving Kolodin: For Reiner, knowing was an indispensable precondition to doing. Bernstein used to tell of how Reiner would demand that his students be able to identify the exact note a single instrument was to play at a given moment in a complex score. Reiner held his orchestras to the same punishing standards".

(Found on net. Abbreviated)

[aa2647]

I love this guy. He is so amazing. I was recently introduced to conducters by a program I watched (best conducters of all time), and because of his simple style and his "no ego" approach to conducting, he is my favortie. Yes, the scowl...but that is another part of his "aura" thing that makes me like he so much.

[ipmoic]

Reiner's beat is crystal clear and remember these musicians had years to see it and understand his style.

This is not NOT metronomic conducting. Although he shows little emotion, his internal clock makes subtle but noticeable tempo changes throughout.

Still, as a member of the orchestra, I don't know if I could have watched his scowl day in and out. But the results were fabulous.

[theoryjoe]

His conducting style is simple. I like that. He doesn't have to do much to get accross what he wants. Can you follow my beat or not?

[edlowc]

Okay, Who is that flute player? How can one look like that and sound so good. That IS a great wiggle.  Do they even make batons that long anymore? What a tight group. Wow.

[OldMrGrace]

This is an 'antique' performance - heavy and cumbersome, rooted in the dusty old cobwebs of central European tradition. It's superceded now by more authentic interpretations. If you want the most 'modern' performance of this symphony, look to Toscanini's 1936 recording with the New York Phil. Even after 70 years it still sparkles, and paved the way for the modern performances we hear today.

[frankfryderzweite]

Sorry, but what you wrote is complete bullshit. Toscanini's version is in no way 'modern'. He was - by the way - an Italian, so he was also influenced or even a product of the "cental European tradition" (whatever you had in mind writing this (??!)) with its "dusty old cobwebs". And certainly he has not invented a "new modern style" of playing Beethoven because it already existed in Europe before. In fact, Gustav Mahler, Erich Kleiber and others used to play like this long before Toscanini did

[etucker82]

Well, OldMrGrace is wrong but so are you. Mahler was as romantic as romantic conductors get and made his own reorchestrations of the Beethoven symphonies to boot. Erich Kleiber was a full quarter-century younger than Toscanini. There were others who played Beethoven in a more 'modern' manner before Toscanini: Richter, Mendelssohn and Habeneck just to name three. But Toscanini was one of the first to record playing in such a style.

[SatchmoSings]

OldMrGrace--

I don't much care for what Reiner is doing here either, and yes, I too prefer the 1936 Toscanini 7th with the NYP-SO.

However, if you can find it (on Amazon) get Reiner's 1954 recording of "The Eroica" long out of print in the USA.

A friend of mine paid $100 for it in an out-of-print record shop 30 years ago and there is a terrific reason why!!!

It's everything that this performance of Beethoven's 7th ISN'T.

Taken at average tempos, this Eroica BRISTLES with energy and "brio!"

[eraffel]

Fritz Reiner as a conductor rivaled George Szell. They both had the utmost attention.

[BadEditPro]

This is a rather stiff performance when compared to the later RCA recordings... Riener does look detached but right on the money. You can tell he rehearsed these players hard before this was broadcast. I've never seen these before. Fascinating to watch! :) JC

[billyguns2]

While I am generally a big fan of Reiner, a conductor whom even Otto Klemperer admired, I am no fan of this terse and unstylish performance. There are so many others that are more stylish, musical, and inspiring, running he gamut of different approaches: I love Karl Bohm in this music, Guido Cantelli, Walter, and Karajan to name just a few.

[brassbend]

Wow! How on earth did they follow Reiner on the attacks? The point of attack is so unclear watching him but is done so perfectly by the orchestra. The first couple of chords are indicated by an upward wiggle. They didn't show the horns, I was looking for my teacher : ( Get Chicago's Eroica CD from this period, best ever.

[Opoczynski]

You are right about the Eroica. I have it. Reiner conducts BEFORE the beat. I've heard of a school of conducting that does that.

[joshd321]

you must be joking, I've never seen clearer conducting. And the wiggle is pure genius.

[billyguns2]

There is also a magnificent rehearsal of this music on YouTube under the direction of Karl Bohm; Reiner apparently wanted Bohm to succeed him in Chicago, but it was not to be.

[Knipschin50]

The saying about him was, big baton, small beat.

Astonishing here because this video dates from after he had his first heart attack - a couple of years before he died. His health had started going into decline and this is definitely not his best - yet he's still able to do a lot with the orchestra. Though he does get off beat here and there - but a lot of conductors do that. Comes from not quite paying attention to where the orchestra is and where your memory of the score is.

[zderfz]

This video was not from "a few years before he died" (in 1963) but the beginning of Reiner's fantastic tenure with the CSO (1953-63). This performance was from a studio telecast over the (then) Dumont TV network. Reiner replaced the CSO concertmaster a year or two after becoming head of the orchestra with Sidney Harth. Also, you may note that the first cello was Janos Starker, who left to pursue a solo career and was succeeded by Frank Miller, who was disbanded NBC Symphony's first cello.

[kacourse]

@zderfz This must be in '53 or '54. At 1:49 there sits my oboe teacher and friend . . Florian Mueller. He retired in one of those years and came to the University of Michigan music school, where he became my oboe teacher! What a delight to actually see/hear him in the CSO. He was at Michigan when I began there in '54. We played many concerts together in Hillsdale, MI, where he was hired as a ringer. A joy to play with, unpretentious and helpful to the entire woodwind section.

[vxla]

I'm guessing that when this video was re-mastered, the sound may have been a bit off in much of the footage. Reiner wanted players on his beat, not behind like the Euro-conductors of his time. If you watch other videos of Reiner conducting the CSO (the VAI stuff and other stuff in the CSO archives), the players are right on the tip of the beat.

[docbart30]

Thats one damn big baton

[darkrevel]

Absolutly the BEST Beethoven 7th. Reiner looks more like he belongs in an old Dracula film, but what a brilliant conductor!

[jsland1]

I know for a while it was all the rage to beat up musicians as though all they could do was play their instruments...I'm not surprised that all I for one can hear is hate and fear.

[winrx]

It must have been quite an experience to have Reiner's hooded hawk-like eyes staring down at you for whatever reason...

[zade77]

It's amazing how subdued Reiner is the whole time, but still creates an interpretation that is anything but.

[Opoczynski]

This is a good example of conductor who does not get emotionally invoved in the music. But the control and communication are all there. Bernstein is the opposite.

[rolandonavarro]

Don´t look at him, just hear the music and you will convince that he is pure expression

[Opoczynski]

You are right, Rolando. I should have said "visibly" emotional. Of course he gets emotional. He just doesn't show it as much as, let's say, Bernstein. We have to remember also that what goes on in rehearsal is most important. Once the orchestra knows what the conductor wants, all they need during the concert are subtle cues communicated with bodily gestures. Reiner was one the greatest conductors of the 20th century and he was able to get thundering fortissimos with a wag of his pinky.