My mother was a Jameson Irish descent First Fleeters I'm not anglophobe gamblemadman your knowledge of Australia comes from a book thats what pisses me off being British got nothing to do with it, if anything I'm an idiotphobe.My Grandmother on my Fathers side was a full blood Ngiyampaa women she died in a fire in a tin shack, dirt floor, no running water in 1978 thats190 years after the British ran their flag up the pole in Sydney Cove, Australia has a Black history ... Ned had his reasons..
@KR181243 Sorry now have to disagree with you he was a man proud of his irishness not because people mite think hes an englishman but because he considered himself an irishman read the letters and notes i have its his own words and to discount what he himself has written is wrong
your an idiot gamblemadman you must be a pom ... Ned crossed the Murray and Murrumbidgee rivers to rob banks in NSW as well it wasn't just the Vic coppers he hated, he hated all coppers it was a national 8000 pound bounty on his head all the police were subservant to the British power whether they were Irish, Scotish and especially the ticketed convicts like I said before bugger off and comment on something you know about get over it you are pom's Ned's Australian so am I we dont like you ...
@KR181243 Yeah ... that £8000 bounty probably had something to do with him regularly robbing banks at gunpoint ... and then there's that little tripple murder thingy that he did aswell.
I dont know why you people cant just see the facts for what they are. The Kelly family were a bunch of petty criminals ... that is the only reason they were disliked (and harrased) by the police.
The police were heavy handed with Kelly and his friends/family ... so he rebels against the British? Haha.
all you wally's saying Ned is not Australian because his parents were Irish ... Obama is an American isn't he? bugger off and comment on your own history because you know nothing of ours. My Grandmother was a Keewong, no I'm not Asian, Keewong was the name of the station (ranch for Yanks) that the colonial settlers stole off her mob, the traditional owners. We suffered a much worse fate from the British colonial invaders than the Kelly's and like Ned I'm a proud Australian.
@KR181243 Kelly was a product of Colonialism himself. He was an "invader" just as much as anyone else who moved in on Australian land. He was also a crook.
He wasn't an Australian rebelling against the British. He was a petty thief come murderer who rebelled against the Victoria police force (who themselves were a bunch of Irish wankers).
I have to laugh when I read comments like yours. You people seem to have it in your minds that Irish-Aussies were saints and that Anglo- Aussies were evil.
@thebhoy32 He wasn't. I was just pointing out to that idiot that he cant say that Kelly was "fighting against the British invaders" without also reffering to Kelly as an "invader".
He (like lots of other anglophobic twats) seem to think that the Australian police were a British invasion party who were invading the 'nice little Irish australian's homeland'.
Kelly might have disliked the British (as any true Irishman would) ... but that doesn't make him a "freedom fighter".
@KR181243 And how exactly can you refer to the British as "colonial invaders" without also referring to the Kelly family as the same. Last time I checked, aboriginals didn't have Irish blood i them.
Dont fuck about ... I can see you are an anglophobe.
Your comments give the impression that Kelly had more right to be in Australia than people of British descent. And that robbing banks and murdering police officers was his god given right ... just cause those officers and banks were run by Brits.
... Ned Kelly is AUSTRALIAN, true he is of Irish descent. @tech86 your the biggest wanker I've ever heard comment of youtube" if a dogs born in a barn you dont call it a horse" spoken like a true pompus wanker. Yank's dont like people burning their flag, Pom's still got their flag in the corner on our's, as an Aussie Ned would tear that Union Jack clean off the flag if he had the chance, he was an Australian rebelling against the British ...
@KR181243 Ned Kelly was an irish australian Who taught of himself as an irishman as he refers to several times in his many letters and notes he has written
Heaps of the outlaws in the Wild West wanted to come to Australia and many did my sisters house is near the hideout of an American bushranger in Alma, Victoria still all bush around ther
Poor old ned, most of the place's he used to ride are new estates, houses and such. Just think if he were to do it today there would have been no hanging just 6 months probation and a slap on the wrist
For years, Australians wondered what had become of Kelly's remains. Two years ago, a farmer stepped forward to say he had the skull. To determine if it was Kelly's, scientists exhumed and tested the tangle of skeletons at that second Melbourne prison. The bones of Kelly were identified -- but the skull was not a match ... Such is Life .....
I have never heard this Cash song before Ned was hanged in the old Melbourne gaol November 11 1880 and on the gaol closure remains of executed men and women were moved to Pentridge prison ... a coincidence that yesterday September 1 2011 a skeleton exhumed from the Pentridge prison in Victoria has been confirmed by a DNA match to be Ned's ... his sk
i feel they should bury his bones in the same cemetary as his mum and let him rest in peace, if people want to go visit his grave then by all means do so
my friends mate's mothers mother... gave Ned Kelly bread. Ned Kelly paid 4 times its worth. Desperate? or in my eyes. Money was worth more to a lady at home
@Eshayzbra96 He's one of (if not the) most famous and influential country musicians of all time. That's why devilrobbie25 is surprised you've never heard of Johnny Cash.
is this guy an american (most probly is due to is accent)im glad he's singing about a true rebel who stole for hiss family cos they were por(kinda like robin hood).
@tetch86 Edward "Ned" Kelly (June 1854/June 1855 – 11 November 1880)[1] was an Irish-Australian bushranger.
He may have been born in Australia, but he's heritage was Irish. Just because you're born in a country doesn't make you OF that country. If I was born in Jamaica, you wouldn't call me Jamaican, you'd describe me as a white guy born in Jamaica. If a dog's born in a barn, you don't call it a horse.
@KurtCobain198666 Yeh i can see what you mean, BUT i am actually a direct descendant from Catherine Quinn (Ned Kellys Aunt) and i have all irish background. Would you call me Irish or an Australian? I agree with you if you called me an Irish-Australian but for that person to call Ned Kelly an Irish Legend is just STUPID.
@tetch86 Ned Kelly was Irish. His dad, John Kelly, was Irish, his mum was Irish. I find it pathetic that Australia feels the need to label him Australian, purely because he was born there and robbed banks there. I wouldn't call a Somalian, with Somalian parents British just because he was born in the U.K. The idea is ridiculous, and it just shows the need that Australia has to claim Kelly as there own
Well over 20,000 signatures were on the petition brought to the English police demanding his release after his capture at the infamous "armored bandit" shootout.
The Brits hanged him anyway.
"Such as life." As Ned is purported to have said. They sure made it easy for posterity to tell who was in the wrong though...
R.I.P. Ned Kelly, the Jesse James of the Bush. :-)
@confoundtheidols I have no issue with Ned Kelly, but comparing him to Jesse James is an insult. There are so many myths that surround Jesse James, and i feel bad for the way Jessa died, but he was a bastard.
@confoundtheidols He stole and gave to the poor? Not one iota of historical evidence supports that. Another myth, he started robbing trains because the train company tried pushing his family of their land.
The reason he stole was because he wanted to buy a farm in Nebraska but was short on cash. James took part in the Centralia Massacre with guerrilla leader William T. Anderson. He was also a racist and part f the Confedarate Army.
@confoundtheidols He joined Bill Andersons gang, and captured a train carrying 24 union soldiers. They were all executed. He shot one bank teller, John Sheets, just because he was part of the Union army during the war. When Will MacDowell, the other teller, tried to run, he was killed too. It was Jesse's mother, Zerelda, that started spreading the Robin Hood myths. When he tried to rob a bank in Minnesota, the cashier wouldn't open the safe, so Jesse shot him point blank in the head.
I can see you're a fellow history enthusiast, so I'd encourage you to look into that one a bit further.
Consider that it was Jesse who was assassinated by a government who loathed and despised him.
The same government that has just proven how unscrupulous & corrupt it really was with its ruthless and criminal invasion of the South. And would prove its steadfast unrepentant attitude with its later conquest of the Early American Indian tribes.
I've heard all kinds of horror stories about Jesse James, but no evidence for any of them.
Yeah, he did shoot down some men in cold blood, but further research into the matter indicates that all of them were men that had personally wronged him and his family.
I would further submit for you consideration the public outcry over Jesse's assassination. Why would there have been one if he was indeed such a loathsome and detestable fellow?
@confoundtheidols the comment about nobody mourning tyrants is stupid. Look at documentaries about Stalin, millions of Russians mourned when he died, he was still responsible for the deaths of 23 million people. Tyrants have been mourned through history. You can't shoot a bank teller, a nobody, and link it to people who wronged his family. So just because people mourned a man, doesn't make him a hero.
Read Jesse James by T.J Stiles, and Truth about Jesse James by Betty Dorsett Duke
Well, that's certainly the exception to the rule, man. I meant that comment in a general sense. After all, never underestimate the power of human stupidity, right? :-)
As I understand it, there were literally dozens of murders attributed to Jesse James that he couldn't possibly have committed, because he just wasn't there when the murder took place.
I'm always willing to look at the scholarly works of the opposition. But I ask you, can you say the same? :-)
@confoundtheidols I tend to look at every aspect of a mans life from many angles, if i'm intested in him, so yes I can say the same. Che Guevara, i've read so many books him to get a clear understanding. Also men like Gandhi, i've read countless books on. If people consider them controversial, you should read stories from both sides of the fence to get a clear picture. If you actually read that book by Betty Dorsett, you'd get a vivid image of who James really was.
@confoundtheidols if you even ignore the fact that James was an outlaw, he still failed miserable as a man. He was of Confederate beliefs, and was pro-slavery. Yes, a real man of the people right there. James may not have commited every murder he was accused of, but to doubt that he did kill innocent men is just showing that you're a naive individual who feels the need to cling to southern heroes. The south produced heroes like Dr. King, Rosa Parks, Jesse Jackson, you don't need James, a killer.
Well, that's good you read extensively about topics, but in order to be a truth seeker, you have to be constantly searching and questioning.
I admire you for the research you have done, but you are the one who seems to be showing a certain level of naivety. It is you who seems to readily accept the accounts rendered by the very people whom we should most diligently question.
The North brutally subjugated the South, and waged a war of attrition on her by attacking the most defenseless of all people, the women and children. They so thoroughly and viciously crushed the South that they made virtually any significant defense (if indeed it could be proven that they were in the right) utterly impossible. The winners write the history books, do they not?
I would encourage you to be more consistent with that commendable tendency of yours to (cont.)
@confoundtheidols it's no good arguing who was right or wrong. The south was pro slavery, even through to the 1970's, the racism of the south was legendary. The north were anti slavery, hence the civil war. The north, under Lincoln, signed the Emanipation Proclamation. 50, 000 were freed immediatly, later 2.1 million of the nations 4 million slaves were freed, with more being freed as the Union invaded the South. They viciously crushed the South? Oh well, the South should've realised slavery=bad
Ah, but you see, that's the crux of the whole matter.
We've gone back and forth in this debate, and as I have offered various objections to your assertions about Jesse James, you resorted to the argument that it really doesn't matter, because Jesse James fought for the South, so therefore, how could he possibly have been an even remotely decent man?
(In so many words.)
So, if you're going to open that can of worms, you'd better be prepared to prove that the South was evil.
Again, I encourage you to be more consistent with that commendable tendency you have to do your homework on issues before rendering your opinion.
EVERY single thing you have said to me is mainstream history as recorded by court historians. The most dubious, questionable and unreliable history imaginable in establishing the legitimacy of the actions and policies of the establishment, because it's ALWAYS going to be pro establishment.
about the Civil War is like citing the Pravda as accurate and objective pertaining to the history of the Communist governments in Russia and the acts of the KGB.
It's called "the fox guarding the chicken coop." hahaha
Don't take my word for it, study for yourself, but I'll make a few statements here:
1. The North was NOT anti-slavery. Some northerners were. But the North had nearly as many slaves as the South, and all slaves were brought to Northern ports.
2. (cont.) NOT free the slaves. The Emancipation proclamation was given 3 years into the war, even though it was on the decline in the South. He was a biiiiiig racist by today's standards, as were most of the "Abolitionists."
3. The war was hardly over slavery. it was over state's rights. Slavery became the "moral" pretext to justify the criminal invasion of the South, because people were starting to point out that the "preserving the Union" excuse was hardly adequate.
@confoundtheidols Led by Jefferson Davis, the Confederacy fought against the United States (the Union), which was supported by all the free states (where slavery had been abolished) and by five slave states that became known as the border states. Thats the opening paragraphy when i googled 'american civil war.' And invading the South using abolition as an excuse is fine by me, aslong as the slaves was freed. And as we can see in todays america, slavery, by it's definition, no longer exists.
@confoundtheidols Georgia's governer, Joseph E. Brown noted that "the country and the army are mainly dependent upon slave labor for support" Knowing that slavery's existance was a requisite for the survival of the Confederacy, any argument at there defence is sheer madness. An issue with the Union's politics is fine, and definatly an issue with some of it's Generals like Custer, a hard face fanatic, but they were AT LEAST the lesser of the two evils, if not the 'good guys'
@KurtCobain198666 I don't care about the politics or day to day actions of the Confederacy. Were they or were they not pro slavery? Were the Noth, under Lincoln, pro slavery? Wasn't the whole civil war based around slavery? In your reply, just state yes or no to these questions, no explanation, just yes or no. Then you'll see why Confederacy=bad Next we will defend the rights of James Earl Ray, purely because he retracted his confession.
Well, that will impede your judgment then, if you do not care about the characteristics and actions of South or North. We know a man or a thing's worth by the fruit it yields.
But ok, for the sake of argument, I will only answer YOUR questions:
Yes, the South, by and large was pro slavery. However, as an institution it was dying in the South, and there was a strong consensus in the South that it had to go. (Before the North ever raised a stink about it)
was not anti-slavery. Certain individuals and groups in the North certainly were, but hardly because they were very concerned about the Slaves. As I mentioned earlier, most of the prominent Abolitionists and Lincoln himself were BIG racists by today's standards.
Furthermore, slavery was a huge industry in the North. All the ports where slaves arrived were in the North, and slavery existed in many forms. Whites owning blacks, whites owning whites, and even blacks owning
blacks and blacks owning whites. (Fairly rare, but a reality nonetheless.)
No, the whole war was not bases around slavery. That's what I've been trying to tell you man. It was over States' Rights. Slavery was debated hotly, but it was a back burner issue, at best. There were lots and lots of other factors.
Again, you won't hear this in Northern text books. What corrupt government in its right mind would want objective debate about it's very questionable rise to power?
@confoundtheidols let me guess, you're southern? Your profile says that you wasn't cut out for college, therefore you're not academic? You self educate so will only read books that add a concrete ideology to your personal ideas and theories? You don't like your ideas being challenged because you believe that by forming them yourself, you are obtaining individuallity, when actually you come across a bigot. You won't challenge your ideaology, therefore are very one sided incomplete academically
@confoundtheidols you'll say i'm wrong, that you've read many books on many subjects. And i don't doubt that. But you've read one sided books, hero or villain, right or wrong. You wasn't cut out for school, so had very few people to encourage you to think openly. You think you've crystallised your mind, actually, you've closed it. I'm not self educated, I went to college where my theories, ideas, and heroes were challenged by great minds, therefore remain open minded.
I appreciate the fact that you are doing it politely, but now you've moved to the "if you can't discredit the message, discredit the messenger" stage. :-)
What you have said of me is your opinion. Nothing more. And why you are certainly entitled to it, you are not entitled to your own facts.
You have yet to address or acknowledge the information I have referred you to. Claiming it is all one sided.
Even if it is, you clearly know your side quite well. So why don't you
@confoundtheidols i'm not discrediting you, that would be bending the truth to solidify my claims. It's a well known fact that by being self educated, you will only educate yourself in the fields you are interested in. You're only going to read books that already back up your claims. My own facts? Where am I wrong? Are you still arguing that the south weren't pro-slavery?
I agree, it would. But your 2nd statement is not necessarily true. It is certainly true of some, I'm sure, but overall, being truly self-educated means you study every angle of the areas you study.
I am a student of truth in all its forms, and it is my worldview and understanding of geopolitics as a whole that motivate my opinions.
When you are self-educated, you have no curriculum. A curriculum by nature is biased. Granted a good one is not, but most certainly are.
@confoundtheidols then you should've gone too college, because that's the whole point. When at college, and even grade school, i was given a set of facts by teachers, and told to make up my own damn mind. I discussed things after class, changed opinions, and had my own changed by using facts. I was constanly challenging my lecturers. My eyes were opened to great works of literature that varied in subject, so it wasn't always what my mind already knew. You're using exuses to cover a drop out
You're missing my point, friend. I've been trying to point out this whole time that your "irrefutable set of facts" you were pointed to in college was the establishment position. Not what had been conclusively proved to be THE ONE AND ONLY TRUTH of the matter.
That's how you get someone to believe a lie. You present the lie to them as though it were the undisputed fact, and tell them to make up their own mind about it, creating the illusion of an unbiased education.
@confoundtheidols listen carefully, i'm sick of repeating myself. While in college (with me so far), when I challenged an idea, I was told to go and read as many books as I could, and determind the facts therein. I wasn't told 'this is the truth.' There's a difference beween beingtold to make up your mind using only the facts the college gave, and being told to go and read as many books on the subject as I liked. That's not dogmatic, as you're suggesting, rather an educational democracy.
Didn't you read my response when you asked that question earlier?
I'll say the same thing I said then. The South was pro-slavery, and at the same time it wasn't. Many in the South called for the dissolution of slavery, and history bears out that it was on the decline in the South.
I can see you believe you received a truly unbiased education because of the great minds that challenged you, but did you ever stop to question whether or not THEY were biased?
@confoundtheidols So the south formed an army to stop the union because the majority of the south were already anti slavery? And after the civil war, there was an equal amount of black hate crime in the south as there was the north? Right. And yes, i did question my teacher's opinions, which is why i've read books on different fields, from both sides of the fence. Did you say YOU'RE repeating yourself? Know how you feel.
@confoundtheidols Just because you stand for an unpopular theory doesn't make you open minded. That's like saying that todays Neo-Nazi's are open minded. You obviously already had an opinion and used certain books (I hope) to back your claims. By being open minded i've read books that greatly challenged my heroes, such as Guevara and Malcolm X. It's broaderned my opinion on them, so saying i'm the closed minded on here is a bit laughable. Tell me, what books have you read on James?
By the way, I have many fundamental differences of opinion with Neo-Nazis, but I find them more open-minded than most people. At least they are willing to study taboo subjects and think taboo thoughts and ask taboo questions.
Now for your information, for as long as I can remember I've heard good things and bad things about Jesse James. I'll humbly acknowledge you've read more books than me on this matter, for I haven't read any books yet.
@confoundtheidols oh so after ALL this, your underlining opinion was based on what you heard? And I guess you asked a wide range of people, including the descents of the people James murdered, rather than just pro-confederacy southerners? No being a neo-nazi is not open minded. I've read about Hitler, but i'm not a Nazi. Praising a political ideology that persecuted millions of jews, slaves, homosexuals, freemasons, disabled, poles, slavs and so on, just because of who they are is closed minded
No, what I've read and what I've heard. There was a 2nd part to that comment. As there has been to most all of my comments. Please read both parts before responding.
A) So that I don't have to keep trying to politely explain why you took me out of context, and
B) So that it won't be so confusing for anyone who's following this discussion who's interested in learning something.
@confoundtheidols ok lets take the obvious road about this. Jesse was supposedly a wild west Robin-Hood, giving to the poor? He never murdered in cold blood? Why did no one come foward to say Jesse gave them money? There's no historic proof, please send me a link if i'm wrong. If he wasn't a murderer, who shot the bank teller infront of the witnesses? And please tell me, if history doesn't mourn murderers, why Russians cried over Lenin and Stalin, and Cambodians wept over Pol Pot please.
But I've read and heard and watched plenty from both sides of the fence.
I simply cannot reconcile all the evil that is said of him with the way people responded to him and with how many people were enraged about his assassination. People who brutalize and victimize innocent people, and are known for it, are not exactly respected, and are seldom defended. Jesse James is highly respected by many, and was certainly defended in his day, and continues to be even presently.
@confoundtheidols Don't be ignorant, murderes have been mourned throughout history. I believe I stated how Russia mourned when Lenin died, and just as many moured when Stalin died, more than those who mourned James. There actions have been defended by the likes of Pable Neruda, an amazing writer, and Paul Robeson. Cambodians wept when Pol Pot died. History has mourned tyrants again, and again.
Ok, so maybe more tyrants than I at first thought HAVE been mourned. But certainly not by the world at large. Only (key words here) highly brainwashed, dumbed-down followers and apologists for them who fail, and are thoroughly incapable of seeing reality. Those people are the types who as they're lined up in front of their mass grave with hundreds of others to be shot will be saying, long live (insert dictator's name)!!!!
@confoundtheidols ok so again, you've made statments that weren't backed by fact, admitting that you were wrong. No, not highly brainwashed people. The people who mourned Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot etc were people who survived the regimes, people who had family sent to Gulags, work camps and death camps. They knew the cold hard truth, yet still they cried. Mao Zedong was responsible for 70 million deaths by work camps, starvation, and execution, but his portrait still hangs in Tiananmen Square.
You've made probably a dozen such statements, and I'm not giving you a hard time about it. I keep trying to point out that the position you are advocating is the "court historian" version of things. It's the version that is prepared for the masses.
You read up on my points, on the Constitution, States Rights, what the South was really fighting for, what the North was really fighting for, and I'll refresh my memory on my sources and read up on yours.
@confoundtheidols so the southern media were not using propaganda to make James seem a hero? Ever heard of the Dime Novel? Those things printed on mass scale and were distributed through out the south, before James was even killed. The south was sympathetic to Jesse, so they're going to believe whatever crap the novels say. Scholars place him in the context of regional insurgencies of ex-Confederates, rather than a manifestation of frontier lawlessness or alleged economic justice.
@confoundtheidols and to change subject, I love the fact that your favourite films are famous for being amazingly historically innacurate, such as Bravehart and 300. Fitting.
It is a well-known and substantiated fact that ever since the early 1900's, techniques at propagandizing the masses have made quantum leaps. (Research Edward Bernays sometime)
It would be infinitely harder for lies and disinfo to be so thoroughly permeated amongst a population group to cause such systemic and insidious levels of deception and confusion in the minds of individuals.
It is in later history that we see this phenomenon you pointed out. Not in the 1800's.
I never said you were close-minded. I merely queried, who was MORE open-minded?
The person espousing the establishment viewpoint, not questioning one jot or tittle of it, despite the clear historical trend of the winners who write the history books lying to justify their misdeeds, or the person standing up for an unpopular position?
@confoundtheidols NEITHER. The one who has the right opinion is right. I've pointed out that if you have the popular or unpopular idea, both can be wrong. There could be a third scenario which is wildly unknown, yet correct. You think that by challenging the popular theory, you're somehow open minded? No, challenge if for thinking it's wrong, don't challenge it merely because it's popular, that's pathetic and makes you seem like you challenge merely to be controversial.
You're taking me out of context. I didn't say that we should challenge things just because it's the popular notion. Given that OTHER historical trend for the majority to be wrong, it is certainly A GOOD reason to though, wouldn't you agree?
In this case, I know of no other opinion. I've never heard of any but the two we're debating over now. If I had, you can certainly believe I'd study that position too.
I challenge your position because it IS my conviction it is wrong
study the issue of states rights, the War Between the States and the issue of slavery in our nation's history.
You will find that as Jefferson Davis once said, "a matter settled by force is a matter not settled at all."
Read "The South Was Right" sometime. Or "The South Under Siege." Read about what manner of men the leaders of the Confederacy were. And the Constitution itself even. Oh no, the issue is far from settled. :-)
Also, some ambitious scholar might care to explicate the parallels between the Kelly Gang - World's first ((Un)Powered) Armoured Infantry? and the contemporary Australian love for Japanese powersuit animation. Follow?
Actually 'boundyrider' it was openly evident how messed up the British law system was about thirty years earlier at the Goldfields of Ballarat. Our Eureka Stockade. Many times before this could also be addressed.
@AUSSIEMADMATT fucken tell me about it. first of all my name too is matt, i have a ned tattoo on my right arm and im a massive j.c fan. ive never heard this though and ive almost fallen of my chair. FUCK THIS IS TOPS
General Sir John Monash, architect of Australian victories in WW1, was born of Prussian Jewish parents and was brought up in Jerilderie where his father ran a trading post. When the Kelly gang were on their way to hold up the town for three days, 6 year old John was put in charge of holding the horse that belonged to none other than Ned Kelly! I find the scene of two of the biggest names in Australian history together in time and place kind of amazing...
@muzlinkage Even more, I read in a copy in a copy of Australian Heritage Magazine once that it wasnt the first time Monansch's had dealings with the kelly gang.. the father not adverse to ..'trading' in less reputiable goods than soap and flour, and once Monash claimed he spoke for a time with ned whilst his father dealt with Dan, and the former giving the young boy some adivice he never forgo and drew on later in life, though apprantly never revealing what in his life time
@muzlinkage That is amazing isn't it. It would be interesting to know what affect Ned had on Sir John. Did that put a fighting and bold spirit into him at such a young age. Ned was probably a hero figure to him. I guess we'll never know unless there is a biography on Sir John which makes comment of that.
@rosiecox1 Aussie. because of the place he was born. Thats the thing with you irish, let anyone try claim anyone, like UK trying to claim Johnny Lydon, and you wont tolrate it.. someone born in another country, raised in another country, died in that country, but because his folks where Irish.. then.. Irish. ??? Come of it.
@rosiecox1 Sorry... can't really claim his as Irish... the culture had moved on in Australia. He was Irish -Australian to be fair. Australians of Irish heritage don't think of themselves as Irish now, and neither did they then.
DEAR FOLKS; DALE CRIPPEN USED TO LEAVE COMMENTS HERE. I WAS ASKED TO TELL YO THAT HE LIKED YOU FOLKS A LOT. HAVE A BREW AND DO AS GOOD AS YOU CAN; DALE PASSED AT 06:29 tonight. J.B.
I know it was two weeks ago but just wanted to say sorry for the lost of your friend. Hope he's resting in peace in heaven with the good lord by his side. Hope you're doing well and handling it ok to. God Bless.
@jiggystain just catchin up on a Ned Kelly clip and thinkin of your mate Dale Crippen. As hard as it is, I too have lost way too many friends but can only be glad they were a part of my life and all left a special mark. RIP Dale x
I still remember how lovely it was
MeganReedy5978 4 days ago
My mother was a Jameson Irish descent First Fleeters I'm not anglophobe gamblemadman your knowledge of Australia comes from a book thats what pisses me off being British got nothing to do with it, if anything I'm an idiotphobe.My Grandmother on my Fathers side was a full blood Ngiyampaa women she died in a fire in a tin shack, dirt floor, no running water in 1978 thats190 years after the British ran their flag up the pole in Sydney Cove, Australia has a Black history ... Ned had his reasons..
KR181243 2 months ago
Kelly refered to himself as Irish Australian in his letters because he didnt want to be misrepresented as an Englishman ...
KR181243 2 months ago
@KR181243 Sorry now have to disagree with you he was a man proud of his irishness not because people mite think hes an englishman but because he considered himself an irishman read the letters and notes i have its his own words and to discount what he himself has written is wrong
thebhoy32 2 months ago
@gamblemadpommybastard and thats the fkn point theres no Irish - Aussies & Anglo - Aussies we are one but we are many we are Australian ...
KR181243 2 months ago
your an idiot gamblemadman you must be a pom ... Ned crossed the Murray and Murrumbidgee rivers to rob banks in NSW as well it wasn't just the Vic coppers he hated, he hated all coppers it was a national 8000 pound bounty on his head all the police were subservant to the British power whether they were Irish, Scotish and especially the ticketed convicts like I said before bugger off and comment on something you know about get over it you are pom's Ned's Australian so am I we dont like you ...
KR181243 2 months ago
@KR181243 Yeah ... that £8000 bounty probably had something to do with him regularly robbing banks at gunpoint ... and then there's that little tripple murder thingy that he did aswell.
I dont know why you people cant just see the facts for what they are. The Kelly family were a bunch of petty criminals ... that is the only reason they were disliked (and harrased) by the police.
The police were heavy handed with Kelly and his friends/family ... so he rebels against the British? Haha.
Please.
gamblemadman 2 months ago
i used to be a rebel with body-to-head armor, but then took a bullet in the knee. true story- i'm Ned Kelly.
TrixKoMAToSe 2 months ago
If Ned Kelly wasn't Australian then none of us white Australians are either.
ImAJuiceBox13 2 months ago
all you wally's saying Ned is not Australian because his parents were Irish ... Obama is an American isn't he? bugger off and comment on your own history because you know nothing of ours. My Grandmother was a Keewong, no I'm not Asian, Keewong was the name of the station (ranch for Yanks) that the colonial settlers stole off her mob, the traditional owners. We suffered a much worse fate from the British colonial invaders than the Kelly's and like Ned I'm a proud Australian.
KR181243 2 months ago
@KR181243 Kelly was a product of Colonialism himself. He was an "invader" just as much as anyone else who moved in on Australian land. He was also a crook.
He wasn't an Australian rebelling against the British. He was a petty thief come murderer who rebelled against the Victoria police force (who themselves were a bunch of Irish wankers).
I have to laugh when I read comments like yours. You people seem to have it in your minds that Irish-Aussies were saints and that Anglo- Aussies were evil.
gamblemadman 2 months ago
@gamblemadman How was he an invader?
thebhoy32 2 months ago
@thebhoy32 He wasn't. I was just pointing out to that idiot that he cant say that Kelly was "fighting against the British invaders" without also reffering to Kelly as an "invader".
He (like lots of other anglophobic twats) seem to think that the Australian police were a British invasion party who were invading the 'nice little Irish australian's homeland'.
Kelly might have disliked the British (as any true Irishman would) ... but that doesn't make him a "freedom fighter".
He was a crook.
gamblemadman 2 months ago
@gamblemadman Well have to agree to disagree Some see him as a crook others as a man who stood up for what he belived in..
thebhoy32 2 months ago
@thebhoy32 I see him a popular figure in history such as Billy the Kid for our American Cousins
melbose 2 weeks ago
@KR181243 And how exactly can you refer to the British as "colonial invaders" without also referring to the Kelly family as the same. Last time I checked, aboriginals didn't have Irish blood i them.
Dont fuck about ... I can see you are an anglophobe.
Your comments give the impression that Kelly had more right to be in Australia than people of British descent. And that robbing banks and murdering police officers was his god given right ... just cause those officers and banks were run by Brits.
gamblemadman 2 months ago
... Ned Kelly is AUSTRALIAN, true he is of Irish descent. @tech86 your the biggest wanker I've ever heard comment of youtube" if a dogs born in a barn you dont call it a horse" spoken like a true pompus wanker. Yank's dont like people burning their flag, Pom's still got their flag in the corner on our's, as an Aussie Ned would tear that Union Jack clean off the flag if he had the chance, he was an Australian rebelling against the British ...
KR181243 2 months ago
@KR181243 Ned Kelly was an irish australian Who taught of himself as an irishman as he refers to several times in his many letters and notes he has written
thebhoy32 2 months ago
rightly or wrongly Kelly was a cop killer! not once either...
BrissoParrothead 3 months ago
Heaps of the outlaws in the Wild West wanted to come to Australia and many did my sisters house is near the hideout of an American bushranger in Alma, Victoria still all bush around ther
Xxtiacc88xX 3 months ago
The Jerilderie Letter find it and read it that's the explanation of ned kelly's actions
RhiLive 3 months ago
Comment removed
RhiLive 3 months ago
Poor old ned, most of the place's he used to ride are new estates, houses and such. Just think if he were to do it today there would have been no hanging just 6 months probation and a slap on the wrist
MANGROVEJACK1000 3 months ago
Kelly wanted fame? All Kelly wanted was justice!
harkeill 3 months ago
@harkeill it doesn't say "Kelly wanted fame", he's saying "Kelly won the fame"...
snoookie456 3 months ago
pfft a forest in victoria? johnny mate please...
omgstooge 4 months ago in playlist Liked
@omgstooge we have lots of forest in Victoria, the Otways being just one example.
ex1le444 3 months ago
@ex1le444 sorry mate but we call it the bush... fucking forest what are you
omgstooge 2 months ago
Classic!! My No. 1!!
bluejaymac 4 months ago
joe byrne designed the armour
ProvosAttYourDoor 5 months ago
such is life fucking still got corrupt bad cops in victoria
omgstooge 5 months ago
For years, Australians wondered what had become of Kelly's remains. Two years ago, a farmer stepped forward to say he had the skull. To determine if it was Kelly's, scientists exhumed and tested the tangle of skeletons at that second Melbourne prison. The bones of Kelly were identified -- but the skull was not a match ... Such is Life .....
KR181243 5 months ago 11
@KR181243 I wonder who the skull belongs to ?
laurel614 5 months ago
@laurel614
It fucking belongs to NED KELLY!
]:)
TheUnclean1ne 5 months ago
@KR181243 I believe they've said in November 2011 that his remains will be finally buried in Greta near his dad.
chewie211171 2 months ago
abcnews.go.com/International/bones-ned-kelly-australias-famous-outlaw-found-131/story?id=14428524
KR181243 5 months ago
I have never heard this Cash song before Ned was hanged in the old Melbourne gaol November 11 1880 and on the gaol closure remains of executed men and women were moved to Pentridge prison ... a coincidence that yesterday September 1 2011 a skeleton exhumed from the Pentridge prison in Victoria has been confirmed by a DNA match to be Ned's ... his sk
ull is still missing.
KR181243 5 months ago
Johnny Cash had a house in Australia.
demannenbroeders 5 months ago
so wierd to hear Johnny cash mention my home state in his song, i live not too far from kelly country you know, does me so proud
punji73 5 months ago
i feel they should bury his bones in the same cemetary as his mum and let him rest in peace, if people want to go visit his grave then by all means do so
punji73 5 months ago
How the hell did he know bout Ned Kelly?
guitarshreder43 5 months ago
@guitarshreder43 did you see the story on nine news too?
johnkiedis27 5 months ago
@johnkiedis27 Yea i did
guitarshreder43 5 months ago
Comment removed
shaman2166 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@guitarshreder43 It's called reading
shaman2166 5 months ago
where the hell did this song appear from???
wilhelmus1 5 months ago
I agree with you . Life long fan of Cash and Oz . This is the first I heard this song
jeffrey19621 6 months ago
I love Ned and Cash, how could it be that I only just found this song?
ledbelly7 6 months ago
my friends mate's mothers mother... gave Ned Kelly bread. Ned Kelly paid 4 times its worth. Desperate? or in my eyes. Money was worth more to a lady at home
mementoVIDEOS 6 months ago
what does this show about history and memory though?
partylikeits1066 6 months ago
@partylikeits1066 google ned kelly answers are there
smelmore 6 months ago
readin the book by peter carey atm. great story
patrix404 7 months ago
Awesome
ausrob69 7 months ago
very nice
jokersadx 8 months ago
ahhh this makes reading the True History of the Kelly gang worth it
CJ270494 9 months ago 6
@CJ270494 not quite
partylikeits1066 6 months ago
@Eshayzbra96 He's one of (if not the) most famous and influential country musicians of all time. That's why devilrobbie25 is surprised you've never heard of Johnny Cash.
hkobb7 10 months ago
so gay how they made these shit photos out of scens from the recent movie
gumby131 11 months ago
@gumby131
Wake up moron, most of these pics were original pics from Neds day..
twodogshellbound 10 months ago
@twodogshellbound only a few of the pics were genuine Ned pics but yeah your right, gumby appears to be an A-grade moron.
greatsoutherncowboy1 7 months ago
Ned was Australian born of Irish parentage ... he was Australian however, but identified with the Irish heritage and people of his community.
Rikitocker 1 year ago
is this guy an american (most probly is due to is accent)im glad he's singing about a true rebel who stole for hiss family cos they were por(kinda like robin hood).
Eshayzbra96 1 year ago
@Eshayzbra96 did you just ask who is johnny cash. you should be ashamed
devilrobbie25 10 months ago 2
Johnny hasnt done a job at this for a yank he and ned are my heroes .so i like it for that reason
martymate1 1 year ago
Irish Legend
tonymonism 1 year ago
He was born in Australia and he helped Australian People fight against the Victorian Government. Oh yeh heaps irish you dick face!!
tetch86 1 year ago
@tetch86 Edward "Ned" Kelly (June 1854/June 1855 – 11 November 1880)[1] was an Irish-Australian bushranger.
He may have been born in Australia, but he's heritage was Irish. Just because you're born in a country doesn't make you OF that country. If I was born in Jamaica, you wouldn't call me Jamaican, you'd describe me as a white guy born in Jamaica. If a dog's born in a barn, you don't call it a horse.
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666 Yeh i can see what you mean, BUT i am actually a direct descendant from Catherine Quinn (Ned Kellys Aunt) and i have all irish background. Would you call me Irish or an Australian? I agree with you if you called me an Irish-Australian but for that person to call Ned Kelly an Irish Legend is just STUPID.
tetch86 1 year ago
@tetch86 Ned Kelly was Irish. His dad, John Kelly, was Irish, his mum was Irish. I find it pathetic that Australia feels the need to label him Australian, purely because he was born there and robbed banks there. I wouldn't call a Somalian, with Somalian parents British just because he was born in the U.K. The idea is ridiculous, and it just shows the need that Australia has to claim Kelly as there own
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
Irish Legend
tonymonism 1 year ago
NED KELLY IS MORE IRISH THAN AUSTRAILIAN.
Celtic8781 1 year ago
Well over 20,000 signatures were on the petition brought to the English police demanding his release after his capture at the infamous "armored bandit" shootout.
The Brits hanged him anyway.
"Such as life." As Ned is purported to have said. They sure made it easy for posterity to tell who was in the wrong though...
R.I.P. Ned Kelly, the Jesse James of the Bush. :-)
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@confoundtheidols I have no issue with Ned Kelly, but comparing him to Jesse James is an insult. There are so many myths that surround Jesse James, and i feel bad for the way Jessa died, but he was a bastard.
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
@confoundtheidols He stole and gave to the poor? Not one iota of historical evidence supports that. Another myth, he started robbing trains because the train company tried pushing his family of their land.
The reason he stole was because he wanted to buy a farm in Nebraska but was short on cash. James took part in the Centralia Massacre with guerrilla leader William T. Anderson. He was also a racist and part f the Confedarate Army.
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
@confoundtheidols He joined Bill Andersons gang, and captured a train carrying 24 union soldiers. They were all executed. He shot one bank teller, John Sheets, just because he was part of the Union army during the war. When Will MacDowell, the other teller, tried to run, he was killed too. It was Jesse's mother, Zerelda, that started spreading the Robin Hood myths. When he tried to rob a bank in Minnesota, the cashier wouldn't open the safe, so Jesse shot him point blank in the head.
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
I can see you're a fellow history enthusiast, so I'd encourage you to look into that one a bit further.
Consider that it was Jesse who was assassinated by a government who loathed and despised him.
The same government that has just proven how unscrupulous & corrupt it really was with its ruthless and criminal invasion of the South. And would prove its steadfast unrepentant attitude with its later conquest of the Early American Indian tribes.
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
I've heard all kinds of horror stories about Jesse James, but no evidence for any of them.
Yeah, he did shoot down some men in cold blood, but further research into the matter indicates that all of them were men that had personally wronged him and his family.
I would further submit for you consideration the public outcry over Jesse's assassination. Why would there have been one if he was indeed such a loathsome and detestable fellow?
No one mourns fallen tyrants.
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@confoundtheidols the comment about nobody mourning tyrants is stupid. Look at documentaries about Stalin, millions of Russians mourned when he died, he was still responsible for the deaths of 23 million people. Tyrants have been mourned through history. You can't shoot a bank teller, a nobody, and link it to people who wronged his family. So just because people mourned a man, doesn't make him a hero.
Read Jesse James by T.J Stiles, and Truth about Jesse James by Betty Dorsett Duke
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
Well, that's certainly the exception to the rule, man. I meant that comment in a general sense. After all, never underestimate the power of human stupidity, right? :-)
As I understand it, there were literally dozens of murders attributed to Jesse James that he couldn't possibly have committed, because he just wasn't there when the murder took place.
I'm always willing to look at the scholarly works of the opposition. But I ask you, can you say the same? :-)
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@confoundtheidols I tend to look at every aspect of a mans life from many angles, if i'm intested in him, so yes I can say the same. Che Guevara, i've read so many books him to get a clear understanding. Also men like Gandhi, i've read countless books on. If people consider them controversial, you should read stories from both sides of the fence to get a clear picture. If you actually read that book by Betty Dorsett, you'd get a vivid image of who James really was.
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
@confoundtheidols if you even ignore the fact that James was an outlaw, he still failed miserable as a man. He was of Confederate beliefs, and was pro-slavery. Yes, a real man of the people right there. James may not have commited every murder he was accused of, but to doubt that he did kill innocent men is just showing that you're a naive individual who feels the need to cling to southern heroes. The south produced heroes like Dr. King, Rosa Parks, Jesse Jackson, you don't need James, a killer.
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
Well, that's good you read extensively about topics, but in order to be a truth seeker, you have to be constantly searching and questioning.
I admire you for the research you have done, but you are the one who seems to be showing a certain level of naivety. It is you who seems to readily accept the accounts rendered by the very people whom we should most diligently question.
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
The North brutally subjugated the South, and waged a war of attrition on her by attacking the most defenseless of all people, the women and children. They so thoroughly and viciously crushed the South that they made virtually any significant defense (if indeed it could be proven that they were in the right) utterly impossible. The winners write the history books, do they not?
I would encourage you to be more consistent with that commendable tendency of yours to (cont.)
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@confoundtheidols it's no good arguing who was right or wrong. The south was pro slavery, even through to the 1970's, the racism of the south was legendary. The north were anti slavery, hence the civil war. The north, under Lincoln, signed the Emanipation Proclamation. 50, 000 were freed immediatly, later 2.1 million of the nations 4 million slaves were freed, with more being freed as the Union invaded the South. They viciously crushed the South? Oh well, the South should've realised slavery=bad
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
Ah, but you see, that's the crux of the whole matter.
We've gone back and forth in this debate, and as I have offered various objections to your assertions about Jesse James, you resorted to the argument that it really doesn't matter, because Jesse James fought for the South, so therefore, how could he possibly have been an even remotely decent man?
(In so many words.)
So, if you're going to open that can of worms, you'd better be prepared to prove that the South was evil.
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
Again, I encourage you to be more consistent with that commendable tendency you have to do your homework on issues before rendering your opinion.
EVERY single thing you have said to me is mainstream history as recorded by court historians. The most dubious, questionable and unreliable history imaginable in establishing the legitimacy of the actions and policies of the establishment, because it's ALWAYS going to be pro establishment.
Citing Northern historical accounts
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
about the Civil War is like citing the Pravda as accurate and objective pertaining to the history of the Communist governments in Russia and the acts of the KGB.
It's called "the fox guarding the chicken coop." hahaha
Don't take my word for it, study for yourself, but I'll make a few statements here:
1. The North was NOT anti-slavery. Some northerners were. But the North had nearly as many slaves as the South, and all slaves were brought to Northern ports.
2. Lincoln did
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
2. (cont.) NOT free the slaves. The Emancipation proclamation was given 3 years into the war, even though it was on the decline in the South. He was a biiiiiig racist by today's standards, as were most of the "Abolitionists."
3. The war was hardly over slavery. it was over state's rights. Slavery became the "moral" pretext to justify the criminal invasion of the South, because people were starting to point out that the "preserving the Union" excuse was hardly adequate.
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@confoundtheidols Led by Jefferson Davis, the Confederacy fought against the United States (the Union), which was supported by all the free states (where slavery had been abolished) and by five slave states that became known as the border states. Thats the opening paragraphy when i googled 'american civil war.' And invading the South using abolition as an excuse is fine by me, aslong as the slaves was freed. And as we can see in todays america, slavery, by it's definition, no longer exists.
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
@confoundtheidols Georgia's governer, Joseph E. Brown noted that "the country and the army are mainly dependent upon slave labor for support" Knowing that slavery's existance was a requisite for the survival of the Confederacy, any argument at there defence is sheer madness. An issue with the Union's politics is fine, and definatly an issue with some of it's Generals like Custer, a hard face fanatic, but they were AT LEAST the lesser of the two evils, if not the 'good guys'
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666 I don't care about the politics or day to day actions of the Confederacy. Were they or were they not pro slavery? Were the Noth, under Lincoln, pro slavery? Wasn't the whole civil war based around slavery? In your reply, just state yes or no to these questions, no explanation, just yes or no. Then you'll see why Confederacy=bad Next we will defend the rights of James Earl Ray, purely because he retracted his confession.
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
Well, that will impede your judgment then, if you do not care about the characteristics and actions of South or North. We know a man or a thing's worth by the fruit it yields.
But ok, for the sake of argument, I will only answer YOUR questions:
Yes, the South, by and large was pro slavery. However, as an institution it was dying in the South, and there was a strong consensus in the South that it had to go. (Before the North ever raised a stink about it)
No, the North
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
was not anti-slavery. Certain individuals and groups in the North certainly were, but hardly because they were very concerned about the Slaves. As I mentioned earlier, most of the prominent Abolitionists and Lincoln himself were BIG racists by today's standards.
Furthermore, slavery was a huge industry in the North. All the ports where slaves arrived were in the North, and slavery existed in many forms. Whites owning blacks, whites owning whites, and even blacks owning
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
blacks and blacks owning whites. (Fairly rare, but a reality nonetheless.)
No, the whole war was not bases around slavery. That's what I've been trying to tell you man. It was over States' Rights. Slavery was debated hotly, but it was a back burner issue, at best. There were lots and lots of other factors.
Again, you won't hear this in Northern text books. What corrupt government in its right mind would want objective debate about it's very questionable rise to power?
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@confoundtheidols let me guess, you're southern? Your profile says that you wasn't cut out for college, therefore you're not academic? You self educate so will only read books that add a concrete ideology to your personal ideas and theories? You don't like your ideas being challenged because you believe that by forming them yourself, you are obtaining individuallity, when actually you come across a bigot. You won't challenge your ideaology, therefore are very one sided incomplete academically
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
@confoundtheidols you'll say i'm wrong, that you've read many books on many subjects. And i don't doubt that. But you've read one sided books, hero or villain, right or wrong. You wasn't cut out for school, so had very few people to encourage you to think openly. You think you've crystallised your mind, actually, you've closed it. I'm not self educated, I went to college where my theories, ideas, and heroes were challenged by great minds, therefore remain open minded.
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
I appreciate the fact that you are doing it politely, but now you've moved to the "if you can't discredit the message, discredit the messenger" stage. :-)
What you have said of me is your opinion. Nothing more. And why you are certainly entitled to it, you are not entitled to your own facts.
You have yet to address or acknowledge the information I have referred you to. Claiming it is all one sided.
Even if it is, you clearly know your side quite well. So why don't you
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@confoundtheidols i'm not discrediting you, that would be bending the truth to solidify my claims. It's a well known fact that by being self educated, you will only educate yourself in the fields you are interested in. You're only going to read books that already back up your claims. My own facts? Where am I wrong? Are you still arguing that the south weren't pro-slavery?
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
I agree, it would. But your 2nd statement is not necessarily true. It is certainly true of some, I'm sure, but overall, being truly self-educated means you study every angle of the areas you study.
I am a student of truth in all its forms, and it is my worldview and understanding of geopolitics as a whole that motivate my opinions.
When you are self-educated, you have no curriculum. A curriculum by nature is biased. Granted a good one is not, but most certainly are.
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@confoundtheidols then you should've gone too college, because that's the whole point. When at college, and even grade school, i was given a set of facts by teachers, and told to make up my own damn mind. I discussed things after class, changed opinions, and had my own changed by using facts. I was constanly challenging my lecturers. My eyes were opened to great works of literature that varied in subject, so it wasn't always what my mind already knew. You're using exuses to cover a drop out
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
You're missing my point, friend. I've been trying to point out this whole time that your "irrefutable set of facts" you were pointed to in college was the establishment position. Not what had been conclusively proved to be THE ONE AND ONLY TRUTH of the matter.
That's how you get someone to believe a lie. You present the lie to them as though it were the undisputed fact, and tell them to make up their own mind about it, creating the illusion of an unbiased education.
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@confoundtheidols listen carefully, i'm sick of repeating myself. While in college (with me so far), when I challenged an idea, I was told to go and read as many books as I could, and determind the facts therein. I wasn't told 'this is the truth.' There's a difference beween beingtold to make up your mind using only the facts the college gave, and being told to go and read as many books on the subject as I liked. That's not dogmatic, as you're suggesting, rather an educational democracy.
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
Didn't you read my response when you asked that question earlier?
I'll say the same thing I said then. The South was pro-slavery, and at the same time it wasn't. Many in the South called for the dissolution of slavery, and history bears out that it was on the decline in the South.
I can see you believe you received a truly unbiased education because of the great minds that challenged you, but did you ever stop to question whether or not THEY were biased?
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@confoundtheidols So the south formed an army to stop the union because the majority of the south were already anti slavery? And after the civil war, there was an equal amount of black hate crime in the south as there was the north? Right. And yes, i did question my teacher's opinions, which is why i've read books on different fields, from both sides of the fence. Did you say YOU'RE repeating yourself? Know how you feel.
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
see what Southern advocates have to say?
If I were afraid to be challenged in my beliefs, why do you think I even started discussing this matter with you?
If someone believes something for expediency, they are seldom if ever willing to engage in a real debate about their position.
I would submit as well that I'm the one who's trying to stand for an unpopular position. So who's more open-minded here? :-)
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@confoundtheidols Just because you stand for an unpopular theory doesn't make you open minded. That's like saying that todays Neo-Nazi's are open minded. You obviously already had an opinion and used certain books (I hope) to back your claims. By being open minded i've read books that greatly challenged my heroes, such as Guevara and Malcolm X. It's broaderned my opinion on them, so saying i'm the closed minded on here is a bit laughable. Tell me, what books have you read on James?
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
But people that do tend to be.
By the way, I have many fundamental differences of opinion with Neo-Nazis, but I find them more open-minded than most people. At least they are willing to study taboo subjects and think taboo thoughts and ask taboo questions.
Now for your information, for as long as I can remember I've heard good things and bad things about Jesse James. I'll humbly acknowledge you've read more books than me on this matter, for I haven't read any books yet.
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@confoundtheidols oh so after ALL this, your underlining opinion was based on what you heard? And I guess you asked a wide range of people, including the descents of the people James murdered, rather than just pro-confederacy southerners? No being a neo-nazi is not open minded. I've read about Hitler, but i'm not a Nazi. Praising a political ideology that persecuted millions of jews, slaves, homosexuals, freemasons, disabled, poles, slavs and so on, just because of who they are is closed minded
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
No, what I've read and what I've heard. There was a 2nd part to that comment. As there has been to most all of my comments. Please read both parts before responding.
A) So that I don't have to keep trying to politely explain why you took me out of context, and
B) So that it won't be so confusing for anyone who's following this discussion who's interested in learning something.
:-)
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@confoundtheidols ok lets take the obvious road about this. Jesse was supposedly a wild west Robin-Hood, giving to the poor? He never murdered in cold blood? Why did no one come foward to say Jesse gave them money? There's no historic proof, please send me a link if i'm wrong. If he wasn't a murderer, who shot the bank teller infront of the witnesses? And please tell me, if history doesn't mourn murderers, why Russians cried over Lenin and Stalin, and Cambodians wept over Pol Pot please.
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
But I've read and heard and watched plenty from both sides of the fence.
I simply cannot reconcile all the evil that is said of him with the way people responded to him and with how many people were enraged about his assassination. People who brutalize and victimize innocent people, and are known for it, are not exactly respected, and are seldom defended. Jesse James is highly respected by many, and was certainly defended in his day, and continues to be even presently.
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@confoundtheidols Don't be ignorant, murderes have been mourned throughout history. I believe I stated how Russia mourned when Lenin died, and just as many moured when Stalin died, more than those who mourned James. There actions have been defended by the likes of Pable Neruda, an amazing writer, and Paul Robeson. Cambodians wept when Pol Pot died. History has mourned tyrants again, and again.
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
Ok, so maybe more tyrants than I at first thought HAVE been mourned. But certainly not by the world at large. Only (key words here) highly brainwashed, dumbed-down followers and apologists for them who fail, and are thoroughly incapable of seeing reality. Those people are the types who as they're lined up in front of their mass grave with hundreds of others to be shot will be saying, long live (insert dictator's name)!!!!
But such men are hardly even acknowledged.
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@confoundtheidols ok so again, you've made statments that weren't backed by fact, admitting that you were wrong. No, not highly brainwashed people. The people who mourned Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot etc were people who survived the regimes, people who had family sent to Gulags, work camps and death camps. They knew the cold hard truth, yet still they cried. Mao Zedong was responsible for 70 million deaths by work camps, starvation, and execution, but his portrait still hangs in Tiananmen Square.
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
You've made probably a dozen such statements, and I'm not giving you a hard time about it. I keep trying to point out that the position you are advocating is the "court historian" version of things. It's the version that is prepared for the masses.
You read up on my points, on the Constitution, States Rights, what the South was really fighting for, what the North was really fighting for, and I'll refresh my memory on my sources and read up on yours.
Contact me anytime.
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@confoundtheidols so the southern media were not using propaganda to make James seem a hero? Ever heard of the Dime Novel? Those things printed on mass scale and were distributed through out the south, before James was even killed. The south was sympathetic to Jesse, so they're going to believe whatever crap the novels say. Scholars place him in the context of regional insurgencies of ex-Confederates, rather than a manifestation of frontier lawlessness or alleged economic justice.
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
@confoundtheidols and to change subject, I love the fact that your favourite films are famous for being amazingly historically innacurate, such as Bravehart and 300. Fitting.
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
It is a well-known and substantiated fact that ever since the early 1900's, techniques at propagandizing the masses have made quantum leaps. (Research Edward Bernays sometime)
It would be infinitely harder for lies and disinfo to be so thoroughly permeated amongst a population group to cause such systemic and insidious levels of deception and confusion in the minds of individuals.
It is in later history that we see this phenomenon you pointed out. Not in the 1800's.
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
I never said you were close-minded. I merely queried, who was MORE open-minded?
The person espousing the establishment viewpoint, not questioning one jot or tittle of it, despite the clear historical trend of the winners who write the history books lying to justify their misdeeds, or the person standing up for an unpopular position?
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@confoundtheidols NEITHER. The one who has the right opinion is right. I've pointed out that if you have the popular or unpopular idea, both can be wrong. There could be a third scenario which is wildly unknown, yet correct. You think that by challenging the popular theory, you're somehow open minded? No, challenge if for thinking it's wrong, don't challenge it merely because it's popular, that's pathetic and makes you seem like you challenge merely to be controversial.
KurtCobain198666 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
You're taking me out of context. I didn't say that we should challenge things just because it's the popular notion. Given that OTHER historical trend for the majority to be wrong, it is certainly A GOOD reason to though, wouldn't you agree?
In this case, I know of no other opinion. I've never heard of any but the two we're debating over now. If I had, you can certainly believe I'd study that position too.
I challenge your position because it IS my conviction it is wrong
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@KurtCobain198666
study the issue of states rights, the War Between the States and the issue of slavery in our nation's history.
You will find that as Jefferson Davis once said, "a matter settled by force is a matter not settled at all."
Read "The South Was Right" sometime. Or "The South Under Siege." Read about what manner of men the leaders of the Confederacy were. And the Constitution itself even. Oh no, the issue is far from settled. :-)
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
@confoundtheidols
*...commendable tendency of yours to study. Look into states rights..."
confoundtheidols 1 year ago
Also, some ambitious scholar might care to explicate the parallels between the Kelly Gang - World's first ((Un)Powered) Armoured Infantry? and the contemporary Australian love for Japanese powersuit animation. Follow?
9ks9ks 1 year ago
Austro-Hibernians, Represent ! ;)
9ks9ks 1 year ago
Ned Kelly never "brought the shame" on anyone, least of all himself.
outrider30 1 year ago
Actually 'boundyrider' it was openly evident how messed up the British law system was about thirty years earlier at the Goldfields of Ballarat. Our Eureka Stockade. Many times before this could also be addressed.
AussieMAG 1 year ago
@AussieMAG Eureka stockade- birth of Australian Unionism and the republican movement. Fantastic.
hatsaswell 1 year ago
i am from greece but i recognize Ned"s sacrifice as he was one of my own ancestors...Long live Ned and his mates
IZaakTheGreek 1 year ago
@IZaakTheGreek Ned was Irish. Unless you are an Irish man living in Greece.
cattlewrangler 1 year ago
Long live Ned and his mates!
RATTLEY67 1 year ago
This is the coolest fucking thing I've ever heard and I never even knew it existed before. Thanks so much for posting it.
TheFleurieuLA 1 year ago
I've never heard of this, but I liked it.
FatmanXVII 1 year ago
never heard this song before, Ned Kelly and Johnny Cash LEGENDS!!!!!!!
AUSSIEMADMATT 1 year ago
@AUSSIEMADMATT fucken tell me about it. first of all my name too is matt, i have a ned tattoo on my right arm and im a massive j.c fan. ive never heard this though and ive almost fallen of my chair. FUCK THIS IS TOPS
greatsoutherncowboy1 1 year ago
WTF where did this come from?
Why havent I heard this b4?
History anybody?
that is JC 100% when did he do this?
easemailbox 1 year ago
Heres a bit of interesting history.
General Sir John Monash, architect of Australian victories in WW1, was born of Prussian Jewish parents and was brought up in Jerilderie where his father ran a trading post. When the Kelly gang were on their way to hold up the town for three days, 6 year old John was put in charge of holding the horse that belonged to none other than Ned Kelly! I find the scene of two of the biggest names in Australian history together in time and place kind of amazing...
muzlinkage 1 year ago 2
@muzlinkage Even more, I read in a copy in a copy of Australian Heritage Magazine once that it wasnt the first time Monansch's had dealings with the kelly gang.. the father not adverse to ..'trading' in less reputiable goods than soap and flour, and once Monash claimed he spoke for a time with ned whilst his father dealt with Dan, and the former giving the young boy some adivice he never forgo and drew on later in life, though apprantly never revealing what in his life time
Apis4 1 year ago
@Apis4 Thoug how true this is, is debateable, as the Wiki entry on Monash treats it as just as idle boast of Monash.
Apis4 1 year ago
@muzlinkage That is amazing isn't it. It would be interesting to know what affect Ned had on Sir John. Did that put a fighting and bold spirit into him at such a young age. Ned was probably a hero figure to him. I guess we'll never know unless there is a biography on Sir John which makes comment of that.
psalmod 1 year ago
Ned Kelly had such a beautifull big thick beard!
GeborenInGoden 1 year ago
irish, not aussie, despite the place he was born
rosiecox1 1 year ago
@rosiecox1 Aussie. because of the place he was born. Thats the thing with you irish, let anyone try claim anyone, like UK trying to claim Johnny Lydon, and you wont tolrate it.. someone born in another country, raised in another country, died in that country, but because his folks where Irish.. then.. Irish. ??? Come of it.
Apis4 1 year ago
@rosiecox1 Sorry... can't really claim his as Irish... the culture had moved on in Australia. He was Irish -Australian to be fair. Australians of Irish heritage don't think of themselves as Irish now, and neither did they then.
Maconmara1 1 year ago
Ned Kelly ,got pissed and and shot ..a good way to meet the hang man...
MrLukeass 1 year ago
never heard this Cash song before - thanks
kerdogg3 1 year ago
DEAR FOLKS; DALE CRIPPEN USED TO LEAVE COMMENTS HERE. I WAS ASKED TO TELL YO THAT HE LIKED YOU FOLKS A LOT. HAVE A BREW AND DO AS GOOD AS YOU CAN; DALE PASSED AT 06:29 tonight. J.B.
dalecrippen 2 years ago 3
Oh thats sad then...
I honestly hope he will find his peace in heaven!
REST IN PEACE DALE AND CONDOLENCES TO HIS FAMILY!
criscallara 2 years ago
cheers
alegend33 2 years ago
I'll have a fine whiskey for him.
trollfinger 2 years ago
go die in the Illinois
cuoregenoatoromerda 2 years ago
Em why would I be in Illinois ? Or America for that reason.
trollfinger 2 years ago
it's your destiny
cuoregenoatoromerda 2 years ago
I know it was two weeks ago but just wanted to say sorry for the lost of your friend. Hope he's resting in peace in heaven with the good lord by his side. Hope you're doing well and handling it ok to. God Bless.
KingOfDestruction 2 years ago
@dalecrippen So?
parksy010101 1 year ago
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jiggystain 2 years ago
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jordieboi1992 2 years ago
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jiggystain 2 years ago
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jordieboi1992 2 years ago
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jiggystain 2 years ago
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jordieboi1992 2 years ago
I'm sorry ok? you win,i lose,consider me suitably chastised.
jiggystain 2 years ago
u put up a fight lol
jordieboi1992 2 years ago
Was only messing about because i was bored,im half irish too lol,sorry,have a good day mate tc
jiggystain 2 years ago
@jiggystain just catchin up on a Ned Kelly clip and thinkin of your mate Dale Crippen. As hard as it is, I too have lost way too many friends but can only be glad they were a part of my life and all left a special mark. RIP Dale x
4sillysez 1 year ago