Also fatah. I agree with you. There is no trinity there's only 1 god. Father, son and holy ghost are titles for Jesus. Just like me I'm a father of my kids, a son of my dad, and a husband to my wife. That does not mean there's 3 of me.
Hello fatah. Jesus is god In the flesh. He bared all sin for all mankind. He asked god why have u forsook me is because that's what we feel when we sin against god. Jesus was 100% man and 100% god. Jesus said those words because that's what his flesh felt.
son+father +holy spirit =1 ) 1+1+1=1 ???? son isnt father and father is not son ans son isnt holy spirit and holy spirit isnot son ??? juses he is not god and he is not son ! he is massanger god and that in bibil open bible and read that !!! in bible Jesus on the cross talk with God and said o my god why you did this to me if he is god why he said that
TRUE ORIGIN OF TRINITY IS FROM NIMROD IN BABYLON. IT CONSIST OF ISHTAR, HORUS, AND NIMROD. TRINITY IS VERY SATANIC. ALL OF THAT IN THE VIDEO WAS CREATED AND ADDED BY MAN. YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE SCRIPTURES TO BACK IT UP.
Wow, this is the most satanic thing I've ever seen. Trinity is an abomination to the 1 God Jesus.Trinity is not in the bible. I believe in the bible. The Trinity is a lie from the Father of lies. There's only 1 God and that is Jesus Christ of Nazareth. If Trinity was in the bible Jesus would have told us so. It was added by Constantine in Council of Nicine. Trinity actually goes back before that. Nimrod made the trinity in babylon
Yes the three persons are consubstantial,three persons=One God.Yes the Holy Spirit "principally proceeds" from the Father. But there is Not Filioque? Read this: John 16:13-15 John 20:22 Galatians 4:6 Romans8:9 Philippians 1:19 John 14:16 John15:26 John16:7
@DivineAegis02 Ive read the bible a few times actually. The funny thing is when you read it it in older translations is says something completely. O and ive pretty much concluded all the parts written by Paul are lies. They were LETTERS he never intended for them to put into a holy book and he was LIAR anyway
@Libya4LY He was a liar based on what?? Saying Jesus is God? its not only Paul that says that in the New Testament but all the Apostles.. You again are repeating the Ignorance of Islam. Did you know your allah send a messenger after Issa called Boules (Paul)?
This is what John the Beloved (the closest desciple of Jesus himself)
this video explains clearly that in the bible and in our common sense there is no trinity at all. the Father is one person, the Son is another person, and the holy Spirit in the Father's active force.
If the three Persons are wholly separate and distinct, then do they have separate mind or thought? Then who are the real creator of the universe? It cant be the three of them creating the same universe. It will cause havocs..
@musician14th Actually let me explain it more clearly. The father is God in heaven (like the brain of God), the holy spirit is the spirit of God which speaks to us and comforts us, and Jesus is God manifest in the flesh ,the person who represents God (well he IS God). Hope that hepled to explain it. :)
hey guys who have you ever asked yourself who wrote the bible hahaha just ask this simple question then you may say that jon ot matieu or whatever were prophets pleaze wakeup
@ruthless6661 sorry cuzzy for being random i can explain it for ya very simple to understand, John 5:19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.. When you play the playstation just say the game (god of war) and your God with the controler at home and the character in the game cant move or use (POWERS) unless you press a button :)
@lilabdennour now i understand i like the god of war discription but that tells me that i am god with the controller and the charater in the game cant do nothing without me but u can use that same discription to say jesus was a messinger of god doing what god willed just like prophet moses and abraham cos god gave them certain miricals aswell so he controlled all the prophets
@ruthless6661 well at the end of the day its up to you cuz what to believe :), like if your born a jew your gonna believe that way :P. if im playing street fighter against my brother and some one watches and the asks who are ya. ill say ryu how ever thats the character is in the game but ill say its me, because he cant do anything with me. you know what i mean. except we believe its god in the flesh because 700 years bc there was a prophecy about him. it doesnt say it in the quran
John 14:16 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Why cant we? because we are infected by that disease called sin. God is holy...Hebrews 12:14 Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. How if you follow Jesus example you will have peace with everybody.....also...Romans 3 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
@baires251 Have read about the great flood? when they was only one ark and only Noah and his family were saved because the only ones who believed the word of God.....Same goes for you brother here is new ark for you and for all humanity a new covenant with man and you.....especially Jesus is the ark!
Yeah brother! In the old testament for the forgiveness of sin they would sacrifice an animal...now It was God,s will to sent his own son as an ultimate sacrifice for all our sins. John 3: 16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. We need to understand that its impossible to come to the father on our own! there is only one way.....
@ruthless6661 God bless you brother! Mathew 28: 19 Go you therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.
@ruthless6661 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. If you ask God in the name of Jesus and if you believe he would show the truth and you will accept it otherwise I can give of the references that there are in the bible and you wont believe it
@baires251 14) (1 Corinthians 2:14-16)The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 15) The spiritual man judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. 16) "For who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ. May he bless you brother
@ruthless6661 i bet you are not reading the bible am i right? Jesus forgives sin (mark 2:5) which only God can do (mark 2:7). God the Father and Jesus are one (it is written in the Bible i dont remember where). john 1:1 in the beginning was God and the World was with God and the Word was God.
Oh... so Jesus and the Holy Ghost are brothers. If Jesus is fully God, and He's fully Man, then He's 200% of a being, right? So is it OK to say that half of that 200% is man and half is God?
@joeyslaptop you have a body, you have a soul, you are 100% man, and you are 100% spiritual being... i would say that jesus was god in human shape and the holy spirit is gods presence in this world... and i would not say that god created jesus and the holy spirit, jesus body was created, but not his person, whose's eternal, no begining and no end, so is the spirit, so is the father...
...err so am I also eternal if I'm a 100% spirit too? (100% body and 100% soul?)
How would Jesus be more than anyone else if he was a spirit and a body - just like everyone else? Also, I was always taught that angels were people who have died and help us and God from the other side. And why does God have to say/announce everything before he makes it (in Genesis)?
@joeyslaptop if they only knew that it is God all alone fulfilling His Word in every ages in His time that was prophesy, there is only one God, the unseen God declares himself to the person of Jesus Christ the Word made flesh and dwelt among us, God is the redeemer, but how he will redeem us? that he cannot be killed in spirit form,
@farmville8 just like in the times of sadrach mesach and abednego, He went down from heaven to redeem the 3 jews, It is all God alone, why people limit God? His mind is unsearchable, it is all Him portraying His characters, His omnipresent, He's everywhere...
This universe GOD IS CREATED in princip of TRINITY/TRIUNE copying self in fabric in this universe Atomic structure have PROTON-NEUTRON-ELECTRON in 1 atom is 3 part Earth have LIQUID CORE-CRUST-MANTLE Humans have BODY-SOUL-SPIRIT we all measure 1 day on HOUR-MIN-SEC and time is divided on PAST-PRESENT-FUTURE basic human family is FATHER-MOTHER-CHILD chemical formulas of living liquid watter H20 have 3 element in 1 and GOD SPEAK IAM FATHER SON HOLY SPIRIT IN HOLY BIBLE
oki seriously i'm not here to disrespect anyone but isn't it a little weird that after 2012years ppl still try to explain something you guys worship and every year there is a new explanation and new analogy, i mean come on!! and from an out side look you guys are just exposing the many contradictions in your religion!
Hey! Thou shalt not forget to CAPITALIZE EVERY SINGLY FIRST LETTER OF A PRONOUN THAT BELONGS TO THE LORD, GOD ALMIGHTY! God is higher than us men and women.
Christians are so stupid and illogical by saying they don't worship and believe in 3 Gods but 1 God manifested as 3 persons? Do they speak and understand english?
They say the Father is God, The Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God but they're not 3 Gods but ONE GOD haaaaaaaahahahahaha how ILLOGICAL and FALSE
Its like saying that Joe is God, Tim is God and Lee is God but they're not 3 Gods but ONE GOD haaaaaaahahaaha you get it now Christianity is a FALSE religion and believes in a FALSE God.
Jesus said, 'I am the way, the truth and the life' and , 'noone comes to the Father except through me'. The word of God is one voice and alive, in Jesus' word and He was speaking of the Trinity, Jesus is the Way, the Father is the Life, The Spirit is the Truth. Noone comes to the Life except through the Way conceived by the Truth.
Its simple. All three are god and love one another as god. However only the son and the holy spirit correspond with one another. The father gives to one and takes from the other. So the son and holy spirit are each valves of the father heart and produce its heartbeat by communicating with one another. Its their communicating with each other allows the father the go ahead to take from one and give to the other because the holy spirit and son are in agreement. A trinity's revolution produces love.
@Mysterwright I would like the see the scriptural proof for the Father taking something from the Son and giving it to the Holy Spirit. Likewise, evidence of the Father taking something from the Holy Spirit and giving it to the Son. The Son communicates with the Father and the Holy Spirit communicates with the Father (Gal 4:6 "Abba, Father"). They don't only correspond with each other: that's why the Spirit is called "the Spirit of your Father" not just "the Spirit of His Son".
So then isn't the Holy Ghost the father of Jesus? And the Holy ghost "proceeds" out of "the Father?" Would they be the same entity? Did Jesus have an eternal soul, as we do, or was his "spirit" actually the spirit of the Holy Ghost, giving the created body life to live in this world? This explanation makes absolutely no sense.
The Trinity is true because of the co-substantiality of the Economic Trinity. Christ's dyotheletism and emhypostasia is clearly taught in the NT. Christ is homoousios as the Father and Parakletos, who in the kenosis revealed the perichoresis of the three in the hypostatic union. It is the ad intra and ab extra manifestation that reveals the eternal procession in the notions of the taxis and the ordo salutis which manifests the inner immanentce of the Trinity. God is 1 What and 3 Who's.
The Trinity is true because of the co-substantiality of the Immanent and Economic Trinity.Christ's dyotheletism and emhypostasia is clearly taught int the NT.Christ is homoousios as the Father and Spirit who in the kenosis revealed the perichoresis of the three. It is the ad intra and ab extra manifestation that reveals the eternal procession in the notions of the taxis and the ordo salutis which manifests the inner immanentce of the Trinity.
@MrAper49 A deity is a single, independent being. A "god" of sorts. The Holy Spirit and the Son are not separate deities but they are all part of one deity known as God.
They are all the same. So god sent himself to earth and then prayed to himself in heaven, and studied the words of the prophets that he himself gave them as the holy spirit, then on the cross said looking upwards "Me, why have you forsaken me?" Total logic.
This should not be a video but a power point slideshow. Why do all these "ooh check this out i can write stuff in a editing software" end up here. Making of video of this at least requires a camera or a microphone.
@hanshah4 Jesus is definitely not God the Son, the bible is very clear on that. What else the bible clear about is that Jesus is the firstborn Son of God, the most powerful being of creation. He was also the greatest man ever to live. Jesus died and was resurrected
The yin/yang: basics. All reality is composed of nothing at a quantum level while what seems to us as nothing is actually God. Man and Woman are created in the likeness of Yahweh Elohim therefore you need not look further. For there is light and dark, holy and humble, creator and creation, to bring all pairs together for good is Holy Spirit. There is only God and Us, the third is satan who is evil. Trinity, pyramid, trouble comes in threes, triple strand dna.
@Phaedron777 not quite, at the Quantum level everything is of the same vibration everything that ever will be and has been exists right now and although it appears that time exists, its accually just your perception changing. Unfortunatly Youtube messages aren't long enough to explain all of this but In short. There is only one conciouness/awareness you can percieve and thats your own.. Whoever reads this Is God and your creating the world around you just by how you feel emotionally.
To paraphrase St. Gregory of Nyssa: Just as there are many human persons, but only one human nature, so there are three Divine Persons, but only one Divine Nature. This is the best explanation of the three-in-one doctrine.
The formulation of the dogma on the divinity of the Holy Spirit that was later included in the Nicene Creed came from the First Ecumenical Council of Constantinople in 381 A.D.
1) of 4. Xtianity was copied from Judaism as "J" & the apostles were Jewish. While Judaism respects Xtianity and even encourages Xtians to convert to it on a limited basis (as Judaism isn't evangelical), one needs to ask the following. cont'd
Have you ever seen ICE along a RIVER with STEAM rising up off the surface?
Liquid, ice, steam.... it's all water. The Ice is begotten of the River (comes forth) and the Steam proceeds (arises) from River. One essence = H2O. They all three interact.
For you Christians, this is the best analogy to use because everyone has to admit that it's not illogical - their main gripe.
@oregonsheepherder Is this to deny that water can be frozen or evaporated off? Or to deny that steam can condense or ice can melt? Methinks the lady doth protest too much. Trinity rebunked by common sense!
@nepistepa I refer you to the shield of the trinity. Appling the transitive property to the shield you can replace Father with God and therefore, God is not the Son, etc. Where is the common sense regarding the trinity? It is only a theology construct, ie Nicaea Greed(325ce), Basil of Caesarea(329-79ce) & Gregory of Nyssa, to rationalize monotheism, and convert Jews.
@oregonsheepherder The Scutum operates linguistically through predicate nominatives, not the substitution of subjects which you propose. A cart does not cease to be a practical machine just because you can take the wheels off the axles and put them on the cart! Untampered with, the Scutum is a good concept map. Also, Trinitarian theology is not an attempt to rationalise monotheism but to explain the Divinity of Jesus and the Spirit of God within a monotheistic framework.
@nepistepa If x=y, then for any property P, x has P IFF y has P. The son of god (SOG) as part of the Trinity is uncreated. However, If Jesus is identical with the SOG then he is uncreated. But Jesus is also human, he is created. Appling indiscernibility of identicals debunks either Jesus or the Trinity.
@oregonsheepherder You haven't studied the dogma of the Trinity sufficiently, or you haven't studied logic sufficiently or you are simply being obtuse in your arguments. If you could make valid arguments or engage in informed discussion, it would be worth replying to the substance of any comments you made. At the moment, your comments look either childish and undeveloped or desperate and not thought through properly.
@nepistepa Friend, I am trying to ascertain your knowledge base. When you are unable to state that the basic doctrines of Christianity are 1) Apostles Creed, 2) Nicene Creed and 3) the Athanasian Creed or when the “filioque” was officially endorsed you do not have cognitive faculty of ancient near theology or the precept of the early church fathers. Game on…asshole…
@oregonsheepherder You speak like someone who thinks that God sits on a cloud and makes it rain by stamping his foot. Come back when you've studied logic and hermeneutics and realise how brutish and uninformed your thinking is. Oh, and when you've learned some manners and developed your self-critical faculty a little further.
@oregonsheepherder You really need to look at developing your thinking and manners if you expect educated people to consider you worthy of participating in informed discussion.
Ive got 2 say,i feel real cheated by your systemic bias & spurious highbrow answer 2 my FIRE analogy.Maybe im just like u and i need 2 be satisfied with a real answer b4 i can call hault??You were very clear with your given answer re water,ice,etc.
FIRE=FIRE+COLOUR+HEAT 3in1.Now please debunk away.This is the best analogy that simplifys the trinity to human logic.Please no oxymoron exponent.You could simply submit & accept my analogy as feasible?God bless u
@oregonsheepherder, no, you're blind. Atheism itself is mere illusion of blind people, who BELIEVE they see everything, but in fact they see nothing. Like Aristotle once said: one error on the begining...
Socrartes “The unexamined life is not worth living”. Plato “you may have eyes, but no intelligence”.
Which one of us has examined such things as the trinity from a historical/textual criticism and exegesis, not devotional? Which one of us has eyes that don’t see but has intelligence?
@oregonsheepherder No matter how, where, or from what perspective you study the Trinity you will never understand it. That is the point. God is infinite, we are finite, our minds our finite, if we could completely understand Him, He wouldn't be God, nor really that powerful. That is why He gave us only the truth that are essential to our salvation by revelation, not all truth, because our finite minds couldn't not handle it, that comes in the next world.
@GeneralGaius I don’t think you have a clue what you are talking about. You are repeating words you don’t understand. When you say god is infinite, it shows that you do not have the first clue what infinity is. When you figure out how to use infinite correctly you can get back to me. And so goes the rest of your statements
@GeneralGaius Why did it take the 4th century “Cappadocians” to define the trinity? Are you saying their finite minds could not comprehend it! Salvation by revelation is nothing more than theology construct that shows the ignorance of superstitious men.
X cannot possess a characteristic unless it first exists.
An infinite god begs the question.
Per the The Kalam Cosmological Argument asserted by the Mutakallimun, the Muslim scholar and in the modern version put forth by W. L. Craig, a priori considerations that an actual infinite is impossible. Since an actual infinite is impossible then an infinite god is impossible.
@oregonsheepherder God has always existed, hence His infinity in His nature to be, therefore he has always has possessed His characteristics because He has always existed. You are trying to explain God completely in natural terms which will never do, because He is above the natural order, He is supernatural.
@GeneralGaius If it is true that an “actual infinity cannot exist in reality,” then a being who is actually infinite cannot be a part of reality. In other words, the Kalam disprovesthe reality of a beginning-less God. If infinity is just a concept, as Kalam insists, then an infinite God is just a concept.
@GeneralGaius Based on the set theory definition of infinite developed by Cantor(1845-1918), infinite god or infinite wisdom will make no sense unless god and wisdom can be thought of as a set with discriminable members.
@oregonsheepherder Of course an infinite is not found in our reality, our reality is finite!!! .We can come to know somethings, but no one can know everything about the infinite God else He would be finite. You sound like deepak chopra, that's not a compliment either. We can understand the concept of infinity but we can't know by any means what it is or what it feels like to be infinite. We do not know what it is like to have infinite knowledge because our knowledge is finite, but we can know..
@oregonsheepherder Once again you are making no coherent sense and didn't address my arguments. Secondly if you read which you obviously didn't, I'm not the PhD I was quoting the PhD, go and look back at the other video for the context in my comments. That quote came from a different website. Thirdly if people believe weird things for non-smart reasons, then they are not really smart are they? Consequentially you provided a very accurate definition of atheists.
@oregonsheepherder 2) Non-smart people, who believe in weird things for non-smart reasons. That is the only way to explain the irrationality of their position. I can inquire by the level of intelligence showed in your comments that you are not capable of making nor understanding logical arguments, further dialogue would be fruitless. I'm done now, you can respond to this comment in usual atheistic fashion, which would be insults and irrational conclusions. I'd expect nothing more, but I won't
@amazingmred I'm not even going to bother blessing oregonsheepherder with informed comment anymore. He clearly hasn't sufficient skill at assessing conceptual material yet. Perhaps he will heed my advice about developing his self-critical faculty. I won't hold my breath, through.
OK Friend, or should I say mister wise guy, explain the Comma Johanneum and then explain development of the trinity from paganism,and ancient Greek philosophy and then how the Cappadocians finalizeds the official definition. And then you can describe how the Eastern and Western church split over that very issue. BTW, I killed amazingmred arguments....
@nepistepa The relationship obtaining among Jesus SOG, God the Father & Holy Ghost(HG) is not clearly stated in either the Apostles or the Nicene creed. The interpetation of these two creeds SOG and HG are subordinate to God the father.
@nepistepa Friend, because you are so logical and the trinity is logical, post an argument in the form of Sentential Logic or Quantifier logic in your defense
@amazingmred Identity is an unrestricted indiscernibilty relation for all properties, which is to say it obeys Leibniz’ Law, understood as the Indiscernibility of Identicals:
LL: If x = y then for all properties, P, x has P if and only if y has P
1. I am 4eva googlin your comments because it makes less sense than the very reason we are debating the trinity in the first place.Believe me GOD isnt this hard 2 understand man.Just a side note,i had to google leibnz law and the first word i saw was disambiguation which is most ironic.
2. I believe you might be watching the wrong clips on utube.It seems very clear to me that u truely feel your an intellect & u wish to air your node of arrogance
@nepistepa Listen Buster, you address a comment to me with a bunch of BS i. e. “predicate nominatives, A cart does not cease, explain the Divinity of Jesus” and then cop a condescending attitude, IMO that makes a you self righteous sanctimonious jerk.
@nepistepa I learned in school 1+1+1 = 3. Your Sunday school teaches 1+1+1 = 1. Then your defense is 1³ = 1, which is just ludicrous. Even conservative Christians admit the Trinity does not make sense. It is one of those things that must be accepted by FAITH..
If you understand science, I can give to you a simile of trinity.
If “space” is like the Father and “mass” is like the Son and “energy” is like the Holy Spirit, then the trinity of “space, mass, and energy” is same as the trinity of Father Son and Holy Spirit. Everything in the universe is composed of space, mass, and energy, they are separate entities yet they can not be separated, therefore they always must exist together and can be called a trinity.
@SueAapro1 Friend, Nice try but no cigar! “they are separate entities“ That is not the essence of a triune god. Leibniz’ Law, understood as the Indiscernibility of Identicals: If x = y then for all properties, P, x has P IFF y has P. The Trinity puzzle creates logical difficulties akin to those suggested by the identity of spatio-temporal objects through time and across worlds. Most reject a priori arguments for the doctrine. Therefore, you are only left with blind faith.
I did say a simile, such as, XYZ is similar to ABC in the sense that both follow a sequence that is accepted by convention. The letters are separate entities but you can not take any letter out or substitute something else there without destroying the accepted sequence.
You can not remove space, mass, or energy from within the atomic structure without destroying the unity of the structure.
From your simple motor experiment, you should be able to realize that E=mc². Where is space in that equation? Again your analogy fails. In the case of the creation, Gravity(E) is the cause of the universe.
In that formula the letter “c” represents the speed of light in “space“, according to Einstein.
E in the formula represents “energy”, gravity is not well understood by scientists, they consider it as the “weak” force, yet it holds the planets around the stars and keeps the stars circling around a central point in the galaxy.
@SueAapro1 We digressed, back to the issue: According to the doctrine of the Trinity, Christ must be his own father and his own son. The Holy Ghost is neither father nor son, but both. The son was begotten by the father, but existed before he was begotten. Christ is just as old as his father, and the father is just as young as his son. The Holy Ghost proceeded from the Father and Son, but he is of the same age as the other two.
Lets use terms from science, I find them understandable.
Paraphrase: According to the doctrine of the Trinity, “matter” must contain “space” and “mass.” Energy is neither space nor mass, but both. The mass was created in space, but its essence existed before it was formed into mass. Matter is just as old as space, and the space is just as young as mass. The energy forms from the space and mass, and is of the same age as the other two. Makes sense.
@SueAapro1 If Jesus is identical with the son of god then he is uncreated. But Jesus is also human, he is created. An all powerful God could have devised an equally effective solution that is not incoherent. Simply because you want a triune god does not entail that he/she exist. This is the foundation of a degree of wishful thinking, and the consequence is an illusion.
Will Rogers “that does not compute:” What you are saying is this: “If (the combination of) space, mass, and energy is identical with the mass and space, then the combination is uncreated.”
The “creation” is at the moment when space, mass, and energy come into existence, and that is where God (the creator) comes in to the picture.
@SueAapro1 OK, I am fine with “Trinity, the elephant in the room” and sticking to the cosmological. I reject that space is required at the creation, an energy is space and matter. Space should be considered as boundless four-dimensional continuum known as spacetime. The total energy contained in an object is identified with its mass and energy (like mass), cannot be created or destroyed no space is required.
Energy is kinetic, space is needed for any action. Time is a duration. Spacetime is the “event” that existed before the mass and energy was created. (“the earth was without form and void.”) “earth” referring to mass.
I agree that mass and energy cannot be created or destroyed BY US. Only by the creator that caused them to come into existence.
If nothing is known of the period Tu it is illogical to instantiate an archetype super nature being, ie “god of the gaps”. It is entirely rational and reasonable to see the universe as needing no cause and capable of existing with no metaphysical support.
@SueAapro1 Given a “god of the gaps”, it does not follow that the God of Abraham, most certaintly not the God of Moses or even the TRIUNE God of Christianity is required. The super nature being may as well be Aristotles unmoved mover, The Deity of Jefferson, the gods of the philosophers or any of the gods of the ancient near east.
@SueAapro1 kinetic energy of an object is the energy which it possesses due to its motion however you have neglected potential energy. You could say, " God has always existed" but a less complicated explanation would be, "The universe has always existed." I refer you to Occams Razor. Modern cosmology indicates that the initial state of our universe was one of maximum chaos so that it contains no memory of a creator.
Potential FOR energy could be considered as a storage of kinetic energy, but individually considered, the potential is a “force” and turns into energy kinetic form only when there is movement.
Even if we consider that space and mass has always existed, that would still leave the question of, how did the mass obtain its energy? What is holy spirit?
There seems to be two alternatives, one is that the energy was created, or that it also has existed forever.
If energy has existed forever, then it implies that the energy and power in the universe is infinite, and that begs the question: Does this infinite power and energy contain intelligence? Since we are part and parcel of that universe, then the question applies as well to our mental capabilities as to the general energy within the infinite universe.
In other words: Where is the intelligence within our brains?
Are you implying that gravity was created first? If so, and since everything resides in space, space must have existed before mass, then gravity must reside in empty space.
Gravity is a POTENTIAL for kinetic energy and an infinite amount of this force will apply to the infinite universe.
Since we are part of this infinite universe, perhaps our “potential” for intelligence is infinite. :-)
Muslim, Christian or Jew, if you believe in a God who created the universe ex nihilo, then you believe in a God who created the "laws" that the universe consistently abides by - these are things like gravity. The laws of logical and arithmetics should not be any different. And because you and I alike believe in a God that existed before the universe, it is not hard to deduce that he lives outside the laws of the universe and can choose not to abide by them...
@steveparadise1 Why? simple if you can not Believe is a being that is God that exist but you can not see then you can not believe either in Trinity, God said thru his prophet who will believe? Jesus was not lying when he said his Father is the only true God think of it good if you have a clever brain why he said that, well i see that you have no undertanding at all you have no logic,you havent read what the Lord said you will not believed meyOU ARE ANTI CHRIST SATANS SIGNATURE CAN BE SEEN IN YOU
@steveparadise1 i truly felt what u said and i feel i myt somehw add to what u said if u allow me. frst am a muslim and i wud like to share what my faith says about jesusthat hes the messiah, a mighty messenger of God and he was sent to the jews at that time. he was born miraclous , gave rise to th dead with God's permission.many more. but still his people disobeyd and tried killing him. only that God took him above, and tht he is not dead and wil appear before the end of the world.tnx 4 reading
The Trinity is simple. The Ancient Story Teller, used the First Person , Second Person, and Third Person Tenses , so that one being, the story teller, could use his voice and act out all the characters himself. Since God wrote the Bible, God Narrates the Bible, God announces Himself and then God speaks in the First Person , as Himself. So God, One Being, can be Three Persons to play the part of the Father, the Son ,the Holy Ghost, as the Sole Author and Actor upon His Stage.
According to the scriptures, the god/godsx3 of the bible was/were actually the creator/designer of " Good & Evil "
And god/gods caused to grow the knowledge of good and evil..
Satan was not created actually full of wisdom (it was the opposite) he wouldent revolt because he knew his power is Limited & he knew he wouldent win. Besides he knew he had a great rigtheous creator... Common where is the Logic here???
Adam & Eve actions in paradise were Random! They were totaly Ino
@3822218 Jesus is God, and He is the only way to the Father. Please, read Genesis 4:1-9, then answer me: Wich offer God liked the most? Cain's offer(fruit of the ground - Own Work, Good Deeds) or Abel's offer(BLOOD). See, all the Old Covenant take a lot of emphasys on the Blood!
The Messiah blood washes away my sins. My life to Jesus Christ!
Great video - an interesting summary of the Trinity doctrine .
It IS contradictory and often times makes no sense or offers meaningless word-games, bot so is the doctrine itself, so it's not the author of the video's fault.
And to those who argue, that the Trinity doctrine is discrediting Christianity, I'd just remind that all Abrachamic traditions require FAITH, not ANALYSIS; if you are THINKING over what they are offering - you wouldn't buy it. But FAITH eats it all.
To understand the Trinity read Pythagoras, Plato's Parmenides and the Timaeus, also read the works of Philo of Alexandria and Plotinus of Lycoplis. Read the works of Justin Martyr, Clement and Origen of Alexandria to understand their syncretic union of the Stoic Logos Spermatikos with the Johanine Logos. And the works of later Neo-Platonists like Proclus' Coomentaries of Plato and Iamblichus' Chaldean Oracles.
Also fatah. I agree with you. There is no trinity there's only 1 god. Father, son and holy ghost are titles for Jesus. Just like me I'm a father of my kids, a son of my dad, and a husband to my wife. That does not mean there's 3 of me.
stonecold474 1 day ago
Hello fatah. Jesus is god In the flesh. He bared all sin for all mankind. He asked god why have u forsook me is because that's what we feel when we sin against god. Jesus was 100% man and 100% god. Jesus said those words because that's what his flesh felt.
stonecold474 1 day ago
It's funny to see where neo-protestantism has gone, denying the own faith.
There's also a difference between Trinity and Triad.
Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto the ages of ages, Amen!
ortodoxiabrasil 2 days ago
son+father +holy spirit =1 ) 1+1+1=1 ???? son isnt father and father is not son ans son isnt holy spirit and holy spirit isnot son ??? juses he is not god and he is not son ! he is massanger god and that in bibil open bible and read that !!! in bible Jesus on the cross talk with God and said o my god why you did this to me if he is god why he said that
fatah151 2 days ago
TRUE ORIGIN OF TRINITY IS FROM NIMROD IN BABYLON. IT CONSIST OF ISHTAR, HORUS, AND NIMROD. TRINITY IS VERY SATANIC. ALL OF THAT IN THE VIDEO WAS CREATED AND ADDED BY MAN. YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE SCRIPTURES TO BACK IT UP.
stonecold474 3 days ago
Wow, this is the most satanic thing I've ever seen. Trinity is an abomination to the 1 God Jesus.Trinity is not in the bible. I believe in the bible. The Trinity is a lie from the Father of lies. There's only 1 God and that is Jesus Christ of Nazareth. If Trinity was in the bible Jesus would have told us so. It was added by Constantine in Council of Nicine. Trinity actually goes back before that. Nimrod made the trinity in babylon
stonecold474 3 days ago
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Yes the three persons are consubstantial,three persons=One God.Yes the Holy Spirit "principally proceeds" from the Father. But there is Not Filioque? Read this: John 16:13-15 John 20:22 Galatians 4:6 Romans8:9 Philippians 1:19 John 14:16 John15:26 John16:7
MrIvanspak 5 days ago
Nicely put together.
delilah75 5 days ago
Funny how all this trinity stuff wasn't in the oldest original bible
Libya4LY 1 week ago
@Libya4LY Funny how ignorant you are and you just repeat what Muslims tell you without even reading the Bible.
DivineAegis02 5 days ago in playlist Religious
@DivineAegis02 Ive read the bible a few times actually. The funny thing is when you read it it in older translations is says something completely. O and ive pretty much concluded all the parts written by Paul are lies. They were LETTERS he never intended for them to put into a holy book and he was LIAR anyway
Libya4LY 4 days ago
@Libya4LY He was a liar based on what?? Saying Jesus is God? its not only Paul that says that in the New Testament but all the Apostles.. You again are repeating the Ignorance of Islam. Did you know your allah send a messenger after Issa called Boules (Paul)?
This is what John the Beloved (the closest desciple of Jesus himself)
1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
Islam & Muhammad = Anti-Christ
DivineAegis02 4 days ago
this video explains clearly that in the bible and in our common sense there is no trinity at all. the Father is one person, the Son is another person, and the holy Spirit in the Father's active force.
80coboy 1 week ago
If the three Persons are wholly separate and distinct, then do they have separate mind or thought? Then who are the real creator of the universe? It cant be the three of them creating the same universe. It will cause havocs..
musician14th 2 weeks ago
@musician14th They are all part of one God. It's like how your brain, arm and leg are both part of you.
TheNikNaK88 1 week ago
@musician14th Actually let me explain it more clearly. The father is God in heaven (like the brain of God), the holy spirit is the spirit of God which speaks to us and comforts us, and Jesus is God manifest in the flesh ,the person who represents God (well he IS God). Hope that hepled to explain it. :)
TheNikNaK88 1 week ago
Trinity has never worked
Kelchjrs 2 weeks ago
hey guys who have you ever asked yourself who wrote the bible hahaha just ask this simple question then you may say that jon ot matieu or whatever were prophets pleaze wakeup
youness0817 3 weeks ago
Fellow christians we must band together in these times
AHAproductions11 3 weeks ago
3 GOD TRINITY IS AN ABOMINATION!!! PRAISE THE 1 GOD JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH!!! GOOGLE NIMROD TRINITY AND YOU'LL FIND IT'S EVIL ROOTS.
stonecold474 3 weeks ago
I just dont understand the trinty its not mentioned in the bible so why shud we belive it
ruthless6661 4 weeks ago
@ruthless6661 sorry cuzzy for being random i can explain it for ya very simple to understand, John 5:19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.. When you play the playstation just say the game (god of war) and your God with the controler at home and the character in the game cant move or use (POWERS) unless you press a button :)
lilabdennour 3 weeks ago
@lilabdennour now i understand i like the god of war discription but that tells me that i am god with the controller and the charater in the game cant do nothing without me but u can use that same discription to say jesus was a messinger of god doing what god willed just like prophet moses and abraham cos god gave them certain miricals aswell so he controlled all the prophets
ruthless6661 3 weeks ago
@ruthless6661 well at the end of the day its up to you cuz what to believe :), like if your born a jew your gonna believe that way :P. if im playing street fighter against my brother and some one watches and the asks who are ya. ill say ryu how ever thats the character is in the game but ill say its me, because he cant do anything with me. you know what i mean. except we believe its god in the flesh because 700 years bc there was a prophecy about him. it doesnt say it in the quran
lilabdennour 3 weeks ago
@lilabdennour i think ther is a trinty and that trinty is christian muslim and jew and we all pray to the 1 and only god of abraham
ruthless6661 3 weeks ago
God bless you and your family man! reply please..thank you
baires251 4 weeks ago
John 14:16 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Why cant we? because we are infected by that disease called sin. God is holy...Hebrews 12:14 Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. How if you follow Jesus example you will have peace with everybody.....also...Romans 3 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
baires251 4 weeks ago
@baires251 Have read about the great flood? when they was only one ark and only Noah and his family were saved because the only ones who believed the word of God.....Same goes for you brother here is new ark for you and for all humanity a new covenant with man and you.....especially Jesus is the ark!
baires251 4 weeks ago
Yeah brother! In the old testament for the forgiveness of sin they would sacrifice an animal...now It was God,s will to sent his own son as an ultimate sacrifice for all our sins. John 3: 16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. We need to understand that its impossible to come to the father on our own! there is only one way.....
baires251 4 weeks ago
SO DOES IT MENTION THIS TRINITY OF 3 IN 1 GODS IN THE BIBLE
ruthless6661 1 month ago
@ruthless6661 God bless you brother! Mathew 28: 19 Go you therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.
baires251 1 month ago
@baires251 so just on that 1 statment u have invented a trinity that dosnt prove the trinity
ruthless6661 1 month ago
@ruthless6661 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. If you ask God in the name of Jesus and if you believe he would show the truth and you will accept it otherwise I can give of the references that there are in the bible and you wont believe it
baires251 1 month ago
@baires251 14) (1 Corinthians 2:14-16)The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 15) The spiritual man judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. 16) "For who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ. May he bless you brother
baires251 1 month ago
@baires251 why wud i want to sprinkle the blood of jesus on me ?
and why cant i worship god alone instaed of mentioning jesus name
cos jesus cant do nothing without gods permision
ruthless6661 1 month ago
@ruthless6661 i bet you are not reading the bible am i right? Jesus forgives sin (mark 2:5) which only God can do (mark 2:7). God the Father and Jesus are one (it is written in the Bible i dont remember where). john 1:1 in the beginning was God and the World was with God and the Word was God.
tHeSiLvErHuNk 1 month ago
Oh... so Jesus and the Holy Ghost are brothers. If Jesus is fully God, and He's fully Man, then He's 200% of a being, right? So is it OK to say that half of that 200% is man and half is God?
joeyslaptop 1 month ago
@joeyslaptop you have a body, you have a soul, you are 100% man, and you are 100% spiritual being... i would say that jesus was god in human shape and the holy spirit is gods presence in this world... and i would not say that god created jesus and the holy spirit, jesus body was created, but not his person, whose's eternal, no begining and no end, so is the spirit, so is the father...
soderlund94 1 month ago
@soderlund94
...err so am I also eternal if I'm a 100% spirit too? (100% body and 100% soul?)
How would Jesus be more than anyone else if he was a spirit and a body - just like everyone else? Also, I was always taught that angels were people who have died and help us and God from the other side. And why does God have to say/announce everything before he makes it (in Genesis)?
joeyslaptop 1 month ago
@joeyslaptop if they only knew that it is God all alone fulfilling His Word in every ages in His time that was prophesy, there is only one God, the unseen God declares himself to the person of Jesus Christ the Word made flesh and dwelt among us, God is the redeemer, but how he will redeem us? that he cannot be killed in spirit form,
farmville8 1 month ago
@farmville8 just like in the times of sadrach mesach and abednego, He went down from heaven to redeem the 3 jews, It is all God alone, why people limit God? His mind is unsearchable, it is all Him portraying His characters, His omnipresent, He's everywhere...
farmville8 1 month ago
ISAIAH 9,6 TESTIFY THAT JESUS CHRIST IS FATHER GOD AND REVELATION 4,5-5,6 TESTIFY THAT JESUS CHRIST IS 7 HOLY SPIRITS
mRwhite298 1 month ago
This universe GOD IS CREATED in princip of TRINITY/TRIUNE copying self in fabric in this universe Atomic structure have PROTON-NEUTRON-ELECTRON in 1 atom is 3 part Earth have LIQUID CORE-CRUST-MANTLE Humans have BODY-SOUL-SPIRIT we all measure 1 day on HOUR-MIN-SEC and time is divided on PAST-PRESENT-FUTURE basic human family is FATHER-MOTHER-CHILD chemical formulas of living liquid watter H20 have 3 element in 1 and GOD SPEAK IAM FATHER SON HOLY SPIRIT IN HOLY BIBLE
mRwhite298 1 month ago
Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto the ages of ages, Amen!
Loiginer 1 month ago
oki seriously i'm not here to disrespect anyone but isn't it a little weird that after 2012years ppl still try to explain something you guys worship and every year there is a new explanation and new analogy, i mean come on!! and from an out side look you guys are just exposing the many contradictions in your religion!
hakim0744 1 month ago
Hey! Thou shalt not forget to CAPITALIZE EVERY SINGLY FIRST LETTER OF A PRONOUN THAT BELONGS TO THE LORD, GOD ALMIGHTY! God is higher than us men and women.
Archzenom 1 month ago
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Christians are so stupid and illogical by saying they don't worship and believe in 3 Gods but 1 God manifested as 3 persons? Do they speak and understand english?
They say the Father is God, The Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God but they're not 3 Gods but ONE GOD haaaaaaaahahahahaha how ILLOGICAL and FALSE
Its like saying that Joe is God, Tim is God and Lee is God but they're not 3 Gods but ONE GOD haaaaaaahahaaha you get it now Christianity is a FALSE religion and believes in a FALSE God.
ExtremeEnergyForce 1 month ago
Jesus said, 'I am the way, the truth and the life' and , 'noone comes to the Father except through me'. The word of God is one voice and alive, in Jesus' word and He was speaking of the Trinity, Jesus is the Way, the Father is the Life, The Spirit is the Truth. Noone comes to the Life except through the Way conceived by the Truth.
andrew7a 1 month ago
Its simple. All three are god and love one another as god. However only the son and the holy spirit correspond with one another. The father gives to one and takes from the other. So the son and holy spirit are each valves of the father heart and produce its heartbeat by communicating with one another. Its their communicating with each other allows the father the go ahead to take from one and give to the other because the holy spirit and son are in agreement. A trinity's revolution produces love.
Mysterwright 2 months ago
@Mysterwright *Their communicating with...
Mysterwright 2 months ago
@Mysterwright I would like the see the scriptural proof for the Father taking something from the Son and giving it to the Holy Spirit. Likewise, evidence of the Father taking something from the Holy Spirit and giving it to the Son. The Son communicates with the Father and the Holy Spirit communicates with the Father (Gal 4:6 "Abba, Father"). They don't only correspond with each other: that's why the Spirit is called "the Spirit of your Father" not just "the Spirit of His Son".
nepistepa 1 month ago
So then isn't the Holy Ghost the father of Jesus? And the Holy ghost "proceeds" out of "the Father?" Would they be the same entity? Did Jesus have an eternal soul, as we do, or was his "spirit" actually the spirit of the Holy Ghost, giving the created body life to live in this world? This explanation makes absolutely no sense.
helencounts 2 months ago
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The Trinity is true because of the co-substantiality of the Economic Trinity. Christ's dyotheletism and emhypostasia is clearly taught in the NT. Christ is homoousios as the Father and Parakletos, who in the kenosis revealed the perichoresis of the three in the hypostatic union. It is the ad intra and ab extra manifestation that reveals the eternal procession in the notions of the taxis and the ordo salutis which manifests the inner immanentce of the Trinity. God is 1 What and 3 Who's.
Szygyify 2 months ago
The Trinity is true because of the co-substantiality of the Immanent and Economic Trinity.Christ's dyotheletism and emhypostasia is clearly taught int the NT.Christ is homoousios as the Father and Spirit who in the kenosis revealed the perichoresis of the three. It is the ad intra and ab extra manifestation that reveals the eternal procession in the notions of the taxis and the ordo salutis which manifests the inner immanentce of the Trinity.
Szygyify 2 months ago
What is the difference between deity and divine? On the video, it says that Son and Spirit are not deity, yet are divine?
MrAper49 2 months ago
@MrAper49 A deity is a single, independent being. A "god" of sorts. The Holy Spirit and the Son are not separate deities but they are all part of one deity known as God.
TheAntiochus 1 month ago
They are all the same. So god sent himself to earth and then prayed to himself in heaven, and studied the words of the prophets that he himself gave them as the holy spirit, then on the cross said looking upwards "Me, why have you forsaken me?" Total logic.
shamantrainer 2 months ago
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oregonsheepherder 2 months ago
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oregonsheepherder 2 months ago
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oregonsheepherder 2 months ago
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oregonsheepherder 2 months ago
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oregonsheepherder 2 months ago
This should not be a video but a power point slideshow. Why do all these "ooh check this out i can write stuff in a editing software" end up here. Making of video of this at least requires a camera or a microphone.
Supiini1 3 months ago
Why does it even matter if the Trinity if right?
KayBeeEee1983 3 months ago
GOD IS GREAT!!!!!
tonyromo9is1 3 months ago
@hanshah4 Jesus is definitely not God the Son, the bible is very clear on that. What else the bible clear about is that Jesus is the firstborn Son of God, the most powerful being of creation. He was also the greatest man ever to live. Jesus died and was resurrected
steveparadise1 3 months ago
The yin/yang: basics. All reality is composed of nothing at a quantum level while what seems to us as nothing is actually God. Man and Woman are created in the likeness of Yahweh Elohim therefore you need not look further. For there is light and dark, holy and humble, creator and creation, to bring all pairs together for good is Holy Spirit. There is only God and Us, the third is satan who is evil. Trinity, pyramid, trouble comes in threes, triple strand dna.
Phaedron777 3 months ago
@Phaedron777 not quite, at the Quantum level everything is of the same vibration everything that ever will be and has been exists right now and although it appears that time exists, its accually just your perception changing. Unfortunatly Youtube messages aren't long enough to explain all of this but In short. There is only one conciouness/awareness you can percieve and thats your own.. Whoever reads this Is God and your creating the world around you just by how you feel emotionally.
andypmz07 3 months ago
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To paraphrase St. Gregory of Nyssa: Just as there are many human persons, but only one human nature, so there are three Divine Persons, but only one Divine Nature. This is the best explanation of the three-in-one doctrine.
wbarquez 3 months ago
St. Athanasius of Alexandria says: The Holy Ghost is from the Father and the Son, not made, nor begotten, but proceeding.
wbarquez 3 months ago
The formulation of the dogma on the divinity of the Holy Spirit that was later included in the Nicene Creed came from the First Ecumenical Council of Constantinople in 381 A.D.
wbarquez 3 months ago
1) of 4. Xtianity was copied from Judaism as "J" & the apostles were Jewish. While Judaism respects Xtianity and even encourages Xtians to convert to it on a limited basis (as Judaism isn't evangelical), one needs to ask the following. cont'd
onthemoney90 3 months ago
Have you ever seen ICE along a RIVER with STEAM rising up off the surface?
Liquid, ice, steam.... it's all water. The Ice is begotten of the River (comes forth) and the Steam proceeds (arises) from River. One essence = H2O. They all three interact.
For you Christians, this is the best analogy to use because everyone has to admit that it's not illogical - their main gripe.
alexchased 4 months ago
@alexchased
1)Water(Liquid) is H2O and 1A( Water is not Ice, Water is not Steam)
2)Ice(solid) is H2O and 2A(Ice is not Water, Ice is not Steam)
3)Steam(gas) is H2O and 3A(Steam is not Water, Steam is not Ice)
Reflexivity: x = x
From the transitive property A=B, B=C, A=C
Therefore, Water = Ice, Ice = Steam, Water = Steam
The argument is not only illogical it is a contradiction(1A--3A), ie H2O is not Water, Steam, Ice!
Let God = H2O, Father = Water, JC = Steam, HS = Ice. Trinity debunked!
oregonsheepherder 3 months ago
@oregonsheepherder Is this to deny that water can be frozen or evaporated off? Or to deny that steam can condense or ice can melt? Methinks the lady doth protest too much. Trinity rebunked by common sense!
nepistepa 2 months ago
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@nepistepa I refer you to the shield of the trinity. Appling the transitive property to the shield you can replace Father with God and therefore, God is not the Son, etc. Where is the common sense regarding the trinity? It is only a theology construct, ie Nicaea Greed(325ce), Basil of Caesarea(329-79ce) & Gregory of Nyssa, to rationalize monotheism, and convert Jews.
oregonsheepherder 2 months ago
@oregonsheepherder The Scutum operates linguistically through predicate nominatives, not the substitution of subjects which you propose. A cart does not cease to be a practical machine just because you can take the wheels off the axles and put them on the cart! Untampered with, the Scutum is a good concept map. Also, Trinitarian theology is not an attempt to rationalise monotheism but to explain the Divinity of Jesus and the Spirit of God within a monotheistic framework.
nepistepa 1 month ago
@nepistepa
Name the doctrines that constitute basic Christianity. Define orthodox Christianity.
oregonsheepherder 1 month ago
@oregonsheepherder I believe the dogma of the Trinity is being discussed here. I have no inclination to discuss definitions of Christianity.
nepistepa 1 month ago
@nepistepa If x=y, then for any property P, x has P IFF y has P. The son of god (SOG) as part of the Trinity is uncreated. However, If Jesus is identical with the SOG then he is uncreated. But Jesus is also human, he is created. Appling indiscernibility of identicals debunks either Jesus or the Trinity.
oregonsheepherder 1 month ago
@oregonsheepherder You haven't studied the dogma of the Trinity sufficiently, or you haven't studied logic sufficiently or you are simply being obtuse in your arguments. If you could make valid arguments or engage in informed discussion, it would be worth replying to the substance of any comments you made. At the moment, your comments look either childish and undeveloped or desperate and not thought through properly.
nepistepa 1 month ago
@nepistepa Friend, I am trying to ascertain your knowledge base. When you are unable to state that the basic doctrines of Christianity are 1) Apostles Creed, 2) Nicene Creed and 3) the Athanasian Creed or when the “filioque” was officially endorsed you do not have cognitive faculty of ancient near theology or the precept of the early church fathers. Game on…asshole…
oregonsheepherder 1 month ago
@oregonsheepherder No further comment necessary.
nepistepa 1 month ago
@nepistepa
God = Father
Father ≠ Son ≠ Holy spirit
God = Son
Son ≠ Father ≠ Holy spirit
God = Holy spirit
Holy spirit ≠ Father ≠ Son
If x = y then for all properties, P, x has P if and only if y has P
The trinity is a contradiction and is therefore debunked.
oregonsheepherder 1 month ago
@oregonsheepherder You speak like someone who thinks that God sits on a cloud and makes it rain by stamping his foot. Come back when you've studied logic and hermeneutics and realise how brutish and uninformed your thinking is. Oh, and when you've learned some manners and developed your self-critical faculty a little further.
nepistepa 1 month ago
@nepistepa excuse me since your a Brit...ars hole...
oregonsheepherder 1 month ago
@oregonsheepherder Again, no further comment necessary.
nepistepa 1 month ago
@nepistepa
One principle that is accepted throughout science and everyday life is that we should not believe in entities for which we have no evidence:
Let T = Father, Son and Holy Ghost, exist.
Let P = T has been confirmed his to man with conclusive evidence.
(T ↔ P)
confirmation of the trinity is invalid/unsound, therefore the contrapostive is
(¬P ↔ ¬T)
¬P
Conclusion ¬T
oregonsheepherder 1 month ago
@oregonsheepherder You really need to look at developing your thinking and manners if you expect educated people to consider you worthy of participating in informed discussion.
nepistepa 1 month ago
@oregonsheepherder
Fire=Fire+Colour+Heat=Fire. Debunk away my friend.
amazingmred 2 months ago
@amazingmred
x = 1
y = 2
z = 3
x= 1 + 2 + 3
x= 6
Anyone grounded in C/Cplusplus knows this is valid.
oregonsheepherder 2 months ago
@oregonsheepherder
B=B
R=R
A=A
V=V
and O= and O
Bravo you're a debunking social reflexivity genious A/A OK
amazingmred 2 months ago
sorry i meant genius...my bad
amazingmred 2 months ago
oar did eye
amazingmred 2 months ago
@amazingmred
1 = 1²
1+3 = 2²
1+3+5 = 3²
1+3+5+7 = 4²
You need to figure out how to write a Well Formed Formula (WFF).
oregonsheepherder 2 months ago
@oregonsheepherder
Ive got 2 say,i feel real cheated by your systemic bias & spurious highbrow answer 2 my FIRE analogy.Maybe im just like u and i need 2 be satisfied with a real answer b4 i can call hault??You were very clear with your given answer re water,ice,etc.
FIRE=FIRE+COLOUR+HEAT 3in1.Now please debunk away.This is the best analogy that simplifys the trinity to human logic.Please no oxymoron exponent.You could simply submit & accept my analogy as feasible?God bless u
amazingmred 2 months ago
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oregonsheepherder 2 months ago
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oregonsheepherder 2 months ago
@oregonsheepherder, no, you're blind. Atheism itself is mere illusion of blind people, who BELIEVE they see everything, but in fact they see nothing. Like Aristotle once said: one error on the begining...
metal87power 2 months ago
@metal87power
Socrartes “The unexamined life is not worth living”. Plato “you may have eyes, but no intelligence”.
Which one of us has examined such things as the trinity from a historical/textual criticism and exegesis, not devotional? Which one of us has eyes that don’t see but has intelligence?
oregonsheepherder 2 months ago
@oregonsheepherder No matter how, where, or from what perspective you study the Trinity you will never understand it. That is the point. God is infinite, we are finite, our minds our finite, if we could completely understand Him, He wouldn't be God, nor really that powerful. That is why He gave us only the truth that are essential to our salvation by revelation, not all truth, because our finite minds couldn't not handle it, that comes in the next world.
GeneralGaius 2 months ago
@GeneralGaius I don’t think you have a clue what you are talking about. You are repeating words you don’t understand. When you say god is infinite, it shows that you do not have the first clue what infinity is. When you figure out how to use infinite correctly you can get back to me. And so goes the rest of your statements
oregonsheepherder 2 months ago
@GeneralGaius Why did it take the 4th century “Cappadocians” to define the trinity? Are you saying their finite minds could not comprehend it! Salvation by revelation is nothing more than theology construct that shows the ignorance of superstitious men.
oregonsheepherder 2 months ago
@GeneralGaius My agrument against an infinite god.
X cannot possess a characteristic unless it first exists.
An infinite god begs the question.
Per the The Kalam Cosmological Argument asserted by the Mutakallimun, the Muslim scholar and in the modern version put forth by W. L. Craig, a priori considerations that an actual infinite is impossible. Since an actual infinite is impossible then an infinite god is impossible.
oregonsheepherder 2 months ago
@oregonsheepherder God has always existed, hence His infinity in His nature to be, therefore he has always has possessed His characteristics because He has always existed. You are trying to explain God completely in natural terms which will never do, because He is above the natural order, He is supernatural.
GeneralGaius 2 months ago
@GeneralGaius If it is true that an “actual infinity cannot exist in reality,” then a being who is actually infinite cannot be a part of reality. In other words, the Kalam disprovesthe reality of a beginning-less God. If infinity is just a concept, as Kalam insists, then an infinite God is just a concept.
oregonsheepherder 2 months ago
@GeneralGaius Based on the set theory definition of infinite developed by Cantor(1845-1918), infinite god or infinite wisdom will make no sense unless god and wisdom can be thought of as a set with discriminable members.
oregonsheepherder 2 months ago
@oregonsheepherder Of course an infinite is not found in our reality, our reality is finite!!! .We can come to know somethings, but no one can know everything about the infinite God else He would be finite. You sound like deepak chopra, that's not a compliment either. We can understand the concept of infinity but we can't know by any means what it is or what it feels like to be infinite. We do not know what it is like to have infinite knowledge because our knowledge is finite, but we can know..
GeneralGaius 2 months ago
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oregonsheepherder 2 months ago
@oregonsheepherder Once again you are making no coherent sense and didn't address my arguments. Secondly if you read which you obviously didn't, I'm not the PhD I was quoting the PhD, go and look back at the other video for the context in my comments. That quote came from a different website. Thirdly if people believe weird things for non-smart reasons, then they are not really smart are they? Consequentially you provided a very accurate definition of atheists.
GeneralGaius 2 months ago
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GeneralGaius 2 months ago
@oregonsheepherder 3)stick around to read it.
GeneralGaius 2 months ago
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oregonsheepherder 2 months ago
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GeneralGaius 2 months ago
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@oregonsheepherder 2) Non-smart people, who believe in weird things for non-smart reasons. That is the only way to explain the irrationality of their position. I can inquire by the level of intelligence showed in your comments that you are not capable of making nor understanding logical arguments, further dialogue would be fruitless. I'm done now, you can respond to this comment in usual atheistic fashion, which would be insults and irrational conclusions. I'd expect nothing more, but I won't
GeneralGaius 2 months ago
@oregonsheepherder 2)that such knowledge exists.
GeneralGaius 2 months ago
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oregonsheepherder 2 months ago
@amazingmred I'm not even going to bother blessing oregonsheepherder with informed comment anymore. He clearly hasn't sufficient skill at assessing conceptual material yet. Perhaps he will heed my advice about developing his self-critical faculty. I won't hold my breath, through.
nepistepa 1 month ago
@nepistepa
OK Friend, or should I say mister wise guy, explain the Comma Johanneum and then explain development of the trinity from paganism,and ancient Greek philosophy and then how the Cappadocians finalizeds the official definition. And then you can describe how the Eastern and Western church split over that very issue. BTW, I killed amazingmred arguments....
oregonsheepherder 1 month ago
@nepistepa The relationship obtaining among Jesus SOG, God the Father & Holy Ghost(HG) is not clearly stated in either the Apostles or the Nicene creed. The interpetation of these two creeds SOG and HG are subordinate to God the father.
oregonsheepherder 1 month ago
@nepistepa Friend, because you are so logical and the trinity is logical, post an argument in the form of Sentential Logic or Quantifier logic in your defense
oregonsheepherder 1 month ago
@amazingmred Identity is an unrestricted indiscernibilty relation for all properties, which is to say it obeys Leibniz’ Law, understood as the Indiscernibility of Identicals:
LL: If x = y then for all properties, P, x has P if and only if y has P
oregonsheepherder 2 months ago
@oregonsheepherder
2things
1. I am 4eva googlin your comments because it makes less sense than the very reason we are debating the trinity in the first place.Believe me GOD isnt this hard 2 understand man.Just a side note,i had to google leibnz law and the first word i saw was disambiguation which is most ironic.
2. I believe you might be watching the wrong clips on utube.It seems very clear to me that u truely feel your an intellect & u wish to air your node of arrogance
amazingmred 2 months ago
@amazingmred You should go to my channel and watch "Trinity Explained"
I apologize for the poor quality of the video, this was my first attempt, however the content is accurate.
oregonsheepherder 2 months ago
@amazingmred Your “Fire” agrument is prima facia unsound and nonsensical.
The statement is logically non-tautological and linguistic redundant.
(Fire)the rapid production of light, heat, and flames from something that is burning,
(Light) energy producing brightness
(Color)property causing visual sensation
(Heat) energy perceived as temperature
(Flames)hot glowing body of burning gas
Given your simple inference then that would be 4 in 1
Conclusion you need a 4th god
oregonsheepherder 2 months ago
@oregonsheepherder How utterly obtuse. Your reasoning is ludicrous.
nepistepa 1 month ago
@nepistepa Listen Buster, you address a comment to me with a bunch of BS i. e. “predicate nominatives, A cart does not cease, explain the Divinity of Jesus” and then cop a condescending attitude, IMO that makes a you self righteous sanctimonious jerk.
oregonsheepherder 1 month ago
@nepistepa I learned in school 1+1+1 = 3. Your Sunday school teaches 1+1+1 = 1. Then your defense is 1³ = 1, which is just ludicrous. Even conservative Christians admit the Trinity does not make sense. It is one of those things that must be accepted by FAITH..
oregonsheepherder 1 month ago
@oregonsheepherder
If you understand science, I can give to you a simile of trinity.
If “space” is like the Father and “mass” is like the Son and “energy” is like the Holy Spirit, then the trinity of “space, mass, and energy” is same as the trinity of Father Son and Holy Spirit. Everything in the universe is composed of space, mass, and energy, they are separate entities yet they can not be separated, therefore they always must exist together and can be called a trinity.
SueAapro1 1 month ago
@SueAapro1 Friend, Nice try but no cigar! “they are separate entities“ That is not the essence of a triune god. Leibniz’ Law, understood as the Indiscernibility of Identicals: If x = y then for all properties, P, x has P IFF y has P. The Trinity puzzle creates logical difficulties akin to those suggested by the identity of spatio-temporal objects through time and across worlds. Most reject a priori arguments for the doctrine. Therefore, you are only left with blind faith.
oregonsheepherder 1 month ago
@oregonsheepherder
I did say a simile, such as, XYZ is similar to ABC in the sense that both follow a sequence that is accepted by convention. The letters are separate entities but you can not take any letter out or substitute something else there without destroying the accepted sequence.
You can not remove space, mass, or energy from within the atomic structure without destroying the unity of the structure.
I agree that faith alone reveals God.
SueAapro1 1 month ago
@SueAapro1
From your simple motor experiment, you should be able to realize that E=mc². Where is space in that equation? Again your analogy fails. In the case of the creation, Gravity(E) is the cause of the universe.
oregonsheepherder 1 month ago
@oregonsheepherder
In that formula the letter “c” represents the speed of light in “space“, according to Einstein.
E in the formula represents “energy”, gravity is not well understood by scientists, they consider it as the “weak” force, yet it holds the planets around the stars and keeps the stars circling around a central point in the galaxy.
SueAapro1 1 month ago
@SueAapro1 We digressed, back to the issue: According to the doctrine of the Trinity, Christ must be his own father and his own son. The Holy Ghost is neither father nor son, but both. The son was begotten by the father, but existed before he was begotten. Christ is just as old as his father, and the father is just as young as his son. The Holy Ghost proceeded from the Father and Son, but he is of the same age as the other two.
oregonsheepherder 1 month ago
@oregonsheepherder
Lets use terms from science, I find them understandable.
Paraphrase: According to the doctrine of the Trinity, “matter” must contain “space” and “mass.” Energy is neither space nor mass, but both. The mass was created in space, but its essence existed before it was formed into mass. Matter is just as old as space, and the space is just as young as mass. The energy forms from the space and mass, and is of the same age as the other two. Makes sense.
SueAapro1 1 month ago
@SueAapro1 If Jesus is identical with the son of god then he is uncreated. But Jesus is also human, he is created. An all powerful God could have devised an equally effective solution that is not incoherent. Simply because you want a triune god does not entail that he/she exist. This is the foundation of a degree of wishful thinking, and the consequence is an illusion.
oregonsheepherder 1 month ago
@oregonsheepherder
Will Rogers “that does not compute:” What you are saying is this: “If (the combination of) space, mass, and energy is identical with the mass and space, then the combination is uncreated.”
The “creation” is at the moment when space, mass, and energy come into existence, and that is where God (the creator) comes in to the picture.
SueAapro1 1 month ago
@SueAapro1 OK, I am fine with “Trinity, the elephant in the room” and sticking to the cosmological. I reject that space is required at the creation, an energy is space and matter. Space should be considered as boundless four-dimensional continuum known as spacetime. The total energy contained in an object is identified with its mass and energy (like mass), cannot be created or destroyed no space is required.
oregonsheepherder 1 month ago
@oregonsheepherder
Energy is kinetic, space is needed for any action. Time is a duration. Spacetime is the “event” that existed before the mass and energy was created. (“the earth was without form and void.”) “earth” referring to mass.
I agree that mass and energy cannot be created or destroyed BY US. Only by the creator that caused them to come into existence.
SueAapro1 1 month ago
@SueAapro1
Let Ta = absolute start of time.
Let Tp = Planck time = 6.4x10E-44 seconds.
Let Tu = time between Ta (singularity) and Tp.
If nothing is known of the period Tu it is illogical to instantiate an archetype super nature being, ie “god of the gaps”. It is entirely rational and reasonable to see the universe as needing no cause and capable of existing with no metaphysical support.
oregonsheepherder 1 month ago
@oregonsheepherder
If we are able to speculate about “Ta” then should we be forbidden to speculate about the creator of “Ta”?
SueAapro1 1 month ago
@SueAapro1 Given a “god of the gaps”, it does not follow that the God of Abraham, most certaintly not the God of Moses or even the TRIUNE God of Christianity is required. The super nature being may as well be Aristotles unmoved mover, The Deity of Jefferson, the gods of the philosophers or any of the gods of the ancient near east.
oregonsheepherder 1 month ago
@oregonsheepherder
I am convinced that there was only one creator at the “Ta = absolute start of time.”
Can you explain how the “absolute start of time” came into existence?
SueAapro1 1 month ago
@SueAapro1 kinetic energy of an object is the energy which it possesses due to its motion however you have neglected potential energy. You could say, " God has always existed" but a less complicated explanation would be, "The universe has always existed." I refer you to Occams Razor. Modern cosmology indicates that the initial state of our universe was one of maximum chaos so that it contains no memory of a creator.
oregonsheepherder 1 month ago
@oregonsheepherder
Potential FOR energy could be considered as a storage of kinetic energy, but individually considered, the potential is a “force” and turns into energy kinetic form only when there is movement.
Even if we consider that space and mass has always existed, that would still leave the question of, how did the mass obtain its energy? What is holy spirit?
There seems to be two alternatives, one is that the energy was created, or that it also has existed forever.
SueAapro1 1 month ago
@SueAapro1
If energy has existed forever, then it implies that the energy and power in the universe is infinite, and that begs the question: Does this infinite power and energy contain intelligence? Since we are part and parcel of that universe, then the question applies as well to our mental capabilities as to the general energy within the infinite universe.
In other words: Where is the intelligence within our brains?
SueAapro1 1 month ago
@SueAapro1" how did the mass obtain its energy" Gravity!
oregonsheepherder 1 month ago
@oregonsheepherder
Are you implying that gravity was created first? If so, and since everything resides in space, space must have existed before mass, then gravity must reside in empty space.
Gravity is a POTENTIAL for kinetic energy and an infinite amount of this force will apply to the infinite universe.
Since we are part of this infinite universe, perhaps our “potential” for intelligence is infinite. :-)
SueAapro1 1 month ago
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any christian answer me on those two question
first : how can god be three and in the same time they are one
in onther way ... if god is three so he is not perfect cuz he consists of three parts
and every part complete the other part
second : if the whole parts is perfect and equal
so they can be not one !!
right or i am wrong ?!
MrSemsem8 4 months ago
@ceboym I would maybe have replied to you, but I could not make head nor tail of what you are talking about
steveparadise1 4 months ago
Muslim, Christian or Jew, if you believe in a God who created the universe ex nihilo, then you believe in a God who created the "laws" that the universe consistently abides by - these are things like gravity. The laws of logical and arithmetics should not be any different. And because you and I alike believe in a God that existed before the universe, it is not hard to deduce that he lives outside the laws of the universe and can choose not to abide by them...
philipmakarios 4 months ago
The bible is a big book about God. God reveals himself through the pages of his inspired word. He is mentioned 1,000s of times.
Why is it in His word you can't find any indication that God is a trinity?
Why is it that Jesus came and revealed more about his Father and never once taught that God is a 3 person God?
If Jesus is "fully God and fully man" why were there things he did not know?
Was Jesus lying when he called his Father "The only true God"?
You should read the bible before doing a vid
steveparadise1 4 months ago
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@steveparadise1 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness;...."
Gênesis 1:26
floodermonkey1 4 months ago
@steveparadise1 Why? simple if you can not Believe is a being that is God that exist but you can not see then you can not believe either in Trinity, God said thru his prophet who will believe? Jesus was not lying when he said his Father is the only true God think of it good if you have a clever brain why he said that, well i see that you have no undertanding at all you have no logic,you havent read what the Lord said you will not believed meyOU ARE ANTI CHRIST SATANS SIGNATURE CAN BE SEEN IN YOU
ceboym 4 months ago
@steveparadise1 i truly felt what u said and i feel i myt somehw add to what u said if u allow me. frst am a muslim and i wud like to share what my faith says about jesusthat hes the messiah, a mighty messenger of God and he was sent to the jews at that time. he was born miraclous , gave rise to th dead with God's permission.many more. but still his people disobeyd and tried killing him. only that God took him above, and tht he is not dead and wil appear before the end of the world.tnx 4 reading
anshah4 3 months ago
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I like this way to see trinity
red color+green color+blue color =WHITE color
Father + Son + Holy Spirit = One God
smartalvy 4 months ago
The Trinity is simple. The Ancient Story Teller, used the First Person , Second Person, and Third Person Tenses , so that one being, the story teller, could use his voice and act out all the characters himself. Since God wrote the Bible, God Narrates the Bible, God announces Himself and then God speaks in the First Person , as Himself. So God, One Being, can be Three Persons to play the part of the Father, the Son ,the Holy Ghost, as the Sole Author and Actor upon His Stage.
CarmineFragione 4 months ago
1+1+1=1 Great!
According to the scriptures, the god/godsx3 of the bible was/were actually the creator/designer of " Good & Evil "
And god/gods caused to grow the knowledge of good and evil..
Satan was not created actually full of wisdom (it was the opposite) he wouldent revolt because he knew his power is Limited & he knew he wouldent win. Besides he knew he had a great rigtheous creator... Common where is the Logic here???
Adam & Eve actions in paradise were Random! They were totaly Ino
OttomanEMPIREOppress 4 months ago
@OttomanEMPIREOppress The math would be 1x1x1=1
Jesus is God, and He and The Father are One.
floodermonkey1 4 months ago
@floodermonkey1
Yeah okay i get it, they multiplied each others, what ?!! nothing against logic ? everything is fine
Tomorrow i will convert to Christianity XD
if the father is ( 1 ) & Jesus is ( 1 ) then the father is Jesus & Jesus is the father
1 = 1 right ? XD
Then there is one god ( who is 1 ) right ?
Thank god I'm Muslim
أشهد أن لا إلى إلا الله وأن محمد رسول الله
3822218 4 months ago
@3822218 Jesus is God, and He is the only way to the Father. Please, read Genesis 4:1-9, then answer me: Wich offer God liked the most? Cain's offer(fruit of the ground - Own Work, Good Deeds) or Abel's offer(BLOOD). See, all the Old Covenant take a lot of emphasys on the Blood!
The Messiah blood washes away my sins. My life to Jesus Christ!
May God help you seeking the truth!
floodermonkey1 4 months ago
Great video - an interesting summary of the Trinity doctrine .
It IS contradictory and often times makes no sense or offers meaningless word-games, bot so is the doctrine itself, so it's not the author of the video's fault.
And to those who argue, that the Trinity doctrine is discrediting Christianity, I'd just remind that all Abrachamic traditions require FAITH, not ANALYSIS; if you are THINKING over what they are offering - you wouldn't buy it. But FAITH eats it all.
grozde 5 months ago
To understand the Trinity read Pythagoras, Plato's Parmenides and the Timaeus, also read the works of Philo of Alexandria and Plotinus of Lycoplis. Read the works of Justin Martyr, Clement and Origen of Alexandria to understand their syncretic union of the Stoic Logos Spermatikos with the Johanine Logos. And the works of later Neo-Platonists like Proclus' Coomentaries of Plato and Iamblichus' Chaldean Oracles.
Szygyify 5 months ago