Knowledge is indeed power. But it greater in force when it is shared. Ur assumption that his theory is flawed is incorrect but also correct. This depends from what angle one is looking. The family structure of TODAY cannot b proven to be a better institution but a family that swayed not that far off becomes possible. There was a time when the father was not the father and the son was not the son. Let him who has ears to hear, let him hear. @SoulofaPianoMan
Gatto should be on the cover of Time, by rights. Instead of Nelson Mandela or the Dalai Lama, nothing against Nelson or the Dalai, you understand, but Gatto is up there with those guys, or he will be once the media come back to post-corporate life.
Parents are suppose to give us as you put hell because we are smart but ignorant! We need that type of guidance. What we don't need is a government telling us to be dumb and that we must listen to them!
Do schools kill creativity? If creativity was a person schools would be it's concentration camp! I think that young people are going through a creativity holocaust perpetrated by teachers especially ones who hate their jobs. Everyone who agrees this is a disgusting inconvenient truth give me a thumbs up. BTW I'm only twenty years old and I understand this.
The one area where Gatto's argument falls apart is that he asserts by fiat that family's are necessarily better at raising children than the state. Family's however, for the great majority, are an institution of indoctrination just like schooling. Most parent's are very authoritarian in the approach they take to child rearing. Only a very small minority, myself included, have ever enjoyed a youth in which they had the freedom to pursue their own interests without their parents giving them hell.
@MsLincolnsghost The fact that he has raised and taught children has no bearing whatsoever on the validity of the argument he is making. You just executed a textbook example of the argument from authority, a logical fallacy. That's like saying that Albert Einstein's theories are valid because he had a degree in physics, not because they are mathematically sound and supported by empirical evidence.
@NecroButcher91 You obviously have never read Gatto's book. You seem like an abused child. Maybe in your view communist indoctrination is superior to a warm and loving family, but thousands of years of history proves nothing to you. You seem to know many things, none of which are true.
@MsLincolnsghost I'd be happy to have you know that I am not nor have I ever been an abused child, and that your leap to that conclusion betrays a stereotyping and complete misunderstanding of the real victims of this phenomenon. You'd do well to know that for the thousands of years of history over which the institution of the family was being developed, alternatives were not being actively tried and tested, but discauraged and outlawed by the dominant social order. So educate yourself.
This is absolutely ridiculous beyond the words. The family raise the children while the state doesn't. Where else will the kids learn their values if not through the influence of their parents and surroundings. Humans are social creatures and the family is the first stage where values are transmitted to a kid. Different parents will provide different values to their kids as opposed to State regimentation. Which is the most important issue here for us.
@AFRIKTODAY That does not mean that it would be a better situation for the individual child. Parents are afforded an unfortunate right to raise their child in absolutely any manner they wish, even if that manner is not in the child's better interest, or if the child him or herself does not wish to live in that manner. For many children born into abuse, state agencies like child welfare programs and even the public school are actually the only refuge for the child in an otherwise horrible home
@NecroButcher91 When you use the world "children" you collectivize individuals into one particular denomination. Every child is unique and so is his family. Most families provide and at least try to instill good and decent values to their kids. The vast majority of parents do not abuse their kids or molest them. There are obviously bad apples, but that does not means that the State has the right to force their own version of values upon ALL the children through force.
@AFRIKTODAY While it is also true that humans are social creatures, the family itself as we in the West understand it is an arbitrary social organization, just like the public school. I can point to many cultures, the !Kung of Southern Africa for example, or the Jewish Kibbutz, where children are raised communally, not by their respective parents. So for you to assert that the archetypal "family" so central to the Western cultural narative is some fundamental attribute of humanity is absurd
You don't make any sense my friend. First off, I am African by origin and I was not even raised by my own parents but by my aunt. This has nothing to do with the west or any other culture. Many western kids are raised by their extended families as well. The issue here is who are the first on the line when it comes to instill values to the kids; and that's the primary responsibility of the those who have given birth to those kids. Humans are not snakes and will never be!
@AFRIKTODAY Look, the point I tried to make in my original post is that while Gatto argues that the family is a more ethical and effective instrument for raising children than the school, he offers little evidence in support of this claim. His books enumerate the many failures of the public school, but they do little to prove that the family is a superior institution. The refutation of one position does not constitute de facto proof of another, and that is why his argument for families is flawed
@NecroButcher91 Actually, the refutation of one position could constitute de facto proof of another, but if and only if there was no possible way for both positions to be true simultaneously. This is not the case for this argument, however; schools and families could (for the sake of argument) actually both be bad institutions.
John Dewey said it was a crime to teach children to read. This is what "Alex" says on this tape. WHERE pray tell did Dewey say THAT? Do NOT confuse John Dewey with the Woodrow Wilsonites who truly wanted to dumb the population down. Also the Progressive Ed movement was highly critical of the State and the Corporation. However, I admire Gatto and feel there is much good in his books. Does his criticism of institutional schooling extend to parochial education, especially Catholic parochial ed?
If Dewey said that it was a crime to teach children to read,he probably meant young children. Does Gatto extend his criticism to parochial schools? I think so. I am the headmaster of a classical Christian school and we are about create a one-room-schoolhouse classroom for independent learners, trial basis. I think this will allievate a lot of the concerns Gatto has about modern schools.
Dear Principal Wilkins: I wish you well, and let me know if you are able how the experiment turns out. Your answers to my questions seem intelligent guesses, so I would still be interested to see where Gatto criticizes parochial ed and in what sense if any Dewey condemns reading. But those are my research projects not yours and I thank you for your reply. DRL
I'm not one who is quick to judge but you clearly have a misunderstanding of the ideas of John Dewey. if you care to know more about Dewey please read Education and Democracy instead of looking for quotes online. The quote you provided is taken out of context and Dewey had as honest an interest in the development of all children's ability to learn (including learning to read).
Democracy and Education was written for school teachers in training. He does not reveal his real intent in that book, it is meant for general public consumption. You need to read what was written for his friends and associates. Those provide an entirely different picture.
Knowledge is indeed power. But it greater in force when it is shared. Ur assumption that his theory is flawed is incorrect but also correct. This depends from what angle one is looking. The family structure of TODAY cannot b proven to be a better institution but a family that swayed not that far off becomes possible. There was a time when the father was not the father and the son was not the son. Let him who has ears to hear, let him hear. @SoulofaPianoMan
TheVportal 11 months ago
Gatto should be on the cover of Time, by rights. Instead of Nelson Mandela or the Dalai Lama, nothing against Nelson or the Dalai, you understand, but Gatto is up there with those guys, or he will be once the media come back to post-corporate life.
not2tees 1 year ago
To NecroButcher91
Parents are suppose to give us as you put hell because we are smart but ignorant! We need that type of guidance. What we don't need is a government telling us to be dumb and that we must listen to them!
C0lv1n 1 year ago
Where is written that John Dewey stated or wrote "it's a crime to teach children how to read" ?
2le3 1 year ago
That fucking Rockefeller face makes me want to vomit. He looks like the face of evil itself with those cold eyes and smug mouth.
brit2125 2 years ago
ivan illich-deschooling society PICK IT UP READ IT...IT'S ONLINE FOR FREE....
kutthroat84 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Do schools kill creativity? If creativity was a person schools would be it's concentration camp! I think that young people are going through a creativity holocaust perpetrated by teachers especially ones who hate their jobs. Everyone who agrees this is a disgusting inconvenient truth give me a thumbs up. BTW I'm only twenty years old and I understand this.
74u73hjd 2 years ago
This guy is amazing! How is he not a household name? I'm sending these youtube vids to everyone I know!!!
MaxLibertas 2 years ago 6
Probably cuz he isnt in the media since the government is a lil bitch that runs it
ELBORRACHO86 2 years ago 2
The one area where Gatto's argument falls apart is that he asserts by fiat that family's are necessarily better at raising children than the state. Family's however, for the great majority, are an institution of indoctrination just like schooling. Most parent's are very authoritarian in the approach they take to child rearing. Only a very small minority, myself included, have ever enjoyed a youth in which they had the freedom to pursue their own interests without their parents giving them hell.
NecroButcher91 3 years ago 2
Very good point.
goblinko 2 years ago
@NecroButcher91 Gattos argument does not fall apart at all. He has raised kids of his own plus taught them for 25 years.
MsLincolnsghost 1 year ago
@MsLincolnsghost The fact that he has raised and taught children has no bearing whatsoever on the validity of the argument he is making. You just executed a textbook example of the argument from authority, a logical fallacy. That's like saying that Albert Einstein's theories are valid because he had a degree in physics, not because they are mathematically sound and supported by empirical evidence.
NecroButcher91 1 year ago
@NecroButcher91 You obviously have never read Gatto's book. You seem like an abused child. Maybe in your view communist indoctrination is superior to a warm and loving family, but thousands of years of history proves nothing to you. You seem to know many things, none of which are true.
MsLincolnsghost 1 year ago
@MsLincolnsghost I'd be happy to have you know that I am not nor have I ever been an abused child, and that your leap to that conclusion betrays a stereotyping and complete misunderstanding of the real victims of this phenomenon. You'd do well to know that for the thousands of years of history over which the institution of the family was being developed, alternatives were not being actively tried and tested, but discauraged and outlawed by the dominant social order. So educate yourself.
NecroButcher91 1 year ago
@NecroButcher91
This is absolutely ridiculous beyond the words. The family raise the children while the state doesn't. Where else will the kids learn their values if not through the influence of their parents and surroundings. Humans are social creatures and the family is the first stage where values are transmitted to a kid. Different parents will provide different values to their kids as opposed to State regimentation. Which is the most important issue here for us.
AFRIKTODAY 1 year ago
@AFRIKTODAY That does not mean that it would be a better situation for the individual child. Parents are afforded an unfortunate right to raise their child in absolutely any manner they wish, even if that manner is not in the child's better interest, or if the child him or herself does not wish to live in that manner. For many children born into abuse, state agencies like child welfare programs and even the public school are actually the only refuge for the child in an otherwise horrible home
NecroButcher91 1 year ago
@NecroButcher91 When you use the world "children" you collectivize individuals into one particular denomination. Every child is unique and so is his family. Most families provide and at least try to instill good and decent values to their kids. The vast majority of parents do not abuse their kids or molest them. There are obviously bad apples, but that does not means that the State has the right to force their own version of values upon ALL the children through force.
AFRIKTODAY 1 year ago
@AFRIKTODAY While it is also true that humans are social creatures, the family itself as we in the West understand it is an arbitrary social organization, just like the public school. I can point to many cultures, the !Kung of Southern Africa for example, or the Jewish Kibbutz, where children are raised communally, not by their respective parents. So for you to assert that the archetypal "family" so central to the Western cultural narative is some fundamental attribute of humanity is absurd
NecroButcher91 1 year ago
@NecroButcher91
You don't make any sense my friend. First off, I am African by origin and I was not even raised by my own parents but by my aunt. This has nothing to do with the west or any other culture. Many western kids are raised by their extended families as well. The issue here is who are the first on the line when it comes to instill values to the kids; and that's the primary responsibility of the those who have given birth to those kids. Humans are not snakes and will never be!
AFRIKTODAY 1 year ago
@AFRIKTODAY Look, the point I tried to make in my original post is that while Gatto argues that the family is a more ethical and effective instrument for raising children than the school, he offers little evidence in support of this claim. His books enumerate the many failures of the public school, but they do little to prove that the family is a superior institution. The refutation of one position does not constitute de facto proof of another, and that is why his argument for families is flawed
NecroButcher91 1 year ago
@NecroButcher91 Actually, the refutation of one position could constitute de facto proof of another, but if and only if there was no possible way for both positions to be true simultaneously. This is not the case for this argument, however; schools and families could (for the sake of argument) actually both be bad institutions.
NecroButcher91 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@NecroButcher91 It is obvious you have not read his book.
MsLincolnsghost 1 year ago
@NecroButcher91
This is a very very good point.
FlashVirus 1 year ago
Gatto is FANTASTIC!
another hero in the undoing of the old disorder!
Thanx for postin....
u can his other books from 'scribd' just type his name
Badwolf182 3 years ago 5
This guy is so great!!! He speaks the truth!!! Things need to change!!!
Tofe211 3 years ago 3
1984
Devlin3151 3 years ago
great post. dumbing us down is an awesome read. wish i had a teacher like gatto.
WeAreSoDoomed 3 years ago 2
John Dewey said it was a crime to teach children to read. This is what "Alex" says on this tape. WHERE pray tell did Dewey say THAT? Do NOT confuse John Dewey with the Woodrow Wilsonites who truly wanted to dumb the population down. Also the Progressive Ed movement was highly critical of the State and the Corporation. However, I admire Gatto and feel there is much good in his books. Does his criticism of institutional schooling extend to parochial education, especially Catholic parochial ed?
DanLackey 3 years ago
If Dewey said that it was a crime to teach children to read,he probably meant young children. Does Gatto extend his criticism to parochial schools? I think so. I am the headmaster of a classical Christian school and we are about create a one-room-schoolhouse classroom for independent learners, trial basis. I think this will allievate a lot of the concerns Gatto has about modern schools.
principalwilkins 3 years ago
Dear Principal Wilkins: I wish you well, and let me know if you are able how the experiment turns out. Your answers to my questions seem intelligent guesses, so I would still be interested to see where Gatto criticizes parochial ed and in what sense if any Dewey condemns reading. But those are my research projects not yours and I thank you for your reply. DRL
DanLackey 3 years ago
To ignore him is to guarantee the further dumbing-down of citizens. Also suggest reading Thomas Sowell's: Inside American Education.
cstarsoft2000 3 years ago
I'm not one who is quick to judge but you clearly have a misunderstanding of the ideas of John Dewey. if you care to know more about Dewey please read Education and Democracy instead of looking for quotes online. The quote you provided is taken out of context and Dewey had as honest an interest in the development of all children's ability to learn (including learning to read).
abiddle726 4 years ago
as you and many great educators
abiddle726 4 years ago
Democracy and Education*
abiddle726 4 years ago
Democracy and Education* not - Education and Democracy
abiddle726 4 years ago
Democracy and Education was written for school teachers in training. He does not reveal his real intent in that book, it is meant for general public consumption. You need to read what was written for his friends and associates. Those provide an entirely different picture.
principalwilkins 3 years ago
HE IS MY GURU
AnaMurida 4 years ago