Gay Marriage: Gays SIC the STATE on Methodist Church for not performing a Gay Marriage!!

[mormonanswerman]

"Dale McAlpine was charged with causing harassment, alarm or distress after a homosexual police community support officer (PCSO) overheard him reciting a number of sins referred to in the Bible, including blasphemy, drunkenness and same sex relationships."

UK news. THERE YOU GO. It has started, free speech is infringed in the name of homosexual police protecting people from religion.

[eMEDIAtely]

Yes on Prop 8 All the way!

[maitriparamita]

Tax-exempt status is not a RIGHT, it is a PRIVILEGE. Why should the State lose revenue for its citizens from an institution that is actively opposing the rights of those citizens. It is not forcing the church to hold gay marriages, it is just asking it to pay taxes like any normal business.

[Anuvia]

Well, I can answer your question with another; What right does the state have to infringe on the religious beliefs of it's citizens?

Removing a Chruch/religious institution's tax exemption status in the event of a refusal to marry a same sex couple seems more like black mail than anything else if you ask me.

Funny enough, I'm not a christian nor am I opposed to gay marriage; I'm just sympathetic to both sides of the argument.

[maitriparamita]

What tradition are you trying to defend? Marriage in the Old Testament was a property transaction - a father would sell his 12/13 year old daughters to a man of his choice in order that she produce grandsons to continue his line. A man could have many wives, could rape them and could divorce them if they were infertile. The tradition of polygamy and child-marriage practiced by Abraham and many others was adopted by the Mormons. Is this the 'tradition' we should defend?

[mormonanswerman]

You can't back up any of your particular interpretation of the text and events recorded there, that God somehow sanctions all of those sins you listed. I know you don't believe the Bible, but do you have to butcher it just because you don't believe in it?

God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and a man raping his wife or divorcing her because she is infertile, hey, those are great and malignant sins. God is love. He does not sanction that.

Man/Woman, Adam/Eve, is the tradition!

[maitriparamita]

I have references for it all. Solomon had hundreds of wives and concubines. Abraham married Sarah when she was a child. When she proved infertile (too young?) he was allowed to sleep with her slave, Hagar (Gen 16:1). Deut 22:28-29 says if a man rapes a woman he must buy her from her father (for 50 shekels of silver ). There's no punishment if he already own her. "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife..." (Ephes 5:22-24)

[POPEWORSHIPER]

That IS the tradition, if you believe in christian MYTHOLOGY. And I've got some shocking news for you, not everyone on this planet believes in christian MYTHOLOGY.

[mormonanswerman]

The California Teachers Association (CTA) just gave $1,000,000 to the NO on Prop 8 campaign. These are californias teachers! What's up with that?

Either we need higher caliber teachers, or parents need to go to a lot more PTA meetings. That's part of the problem, there seems to be a infiltration of gay and lesbian sentiment into our school system. By design?

give MORE to Prop 8 at protect marriage dot c om

[bballer619]

This was disturbing. I come from a family of 4teachers, a wife that is a high school teacher, a dad that is a middle school and college professor, a sister that is an elementary school teacher and substitute, and another sister that is obtaining her teaching credentials this upcoming year. They are all votiong Yes on Prop 8. The CTA played some bad politics here using teacher salary money and donated it to the No side without conferring with the teachers. Teachers are mad about this.

[StoogeWatcher]

Aren't these the same teachers that constantly bitch about not having enough money for public education?

[antony1985]

This video is awesome and I loved it especially the music! You people have no clue what you're talking about he ain't lying! mormonanswerman thanks for this great video!

[LordPillsbury1959]

The lands are private lands owned by the Methodist Church. It allowed people to enjoy the gazebo when not being used for a church function. They denied the request of a lesbian couple to marry and got nailed to the cross of the tune of $500k per year by the state of NJ by taking away the 'tax exempt' status of the property. They didn't say gays couldn't go there, they said they didn't want the pavilion to be used for the performance of gay ceremony. Another hidden agenda by the gay movement!

[eddiesocket]

This poster is a liar. No one has ever been sued for not performing a gay marriage.

[logan437]

I wouldn't call him a liar, but his facts in this case are a little off. The same sex couple filed a complaint with NJ that resulted in the Methodist Church losing the tax exemtpt status for the pavillion where the wedding was to have been performed.

[bgjohnla]

Presenting only part or incorrect fact is a lie. That makes him a liar.

[DIEGOSHAY]

Exactly right. And how good is your belief system if you have to lie to back it up?

[adamblack3030]

There is a seperation between church and state, so how can gays sue a church over a state making gay marriage legal? That makes no since to me. A Church followes the holy bible which condemns gays, so if any church marries gays then they are going against themselves, and I wont go to any church that will do these gross acts which are against God.

[eddiesocket]

They can't sue. They haven't sued. This poster is flat-out lying. And if you have to lie to make your point, maybe you should take a good hard look in the mirror.

[sammyseattle]

Actually there is a case of a suit. It occurred in Ocean Grove, NJ. However, this video trys to spin the actual circumstance of the suite. The couple (Harriet Bernstein and Luisa Paster) sued for being denied use of a boardwalk pavillion operated by the Methodist Camp Meeting Association and open for use by the public. The Assocation was not asked to perform any ceremony.

[eddiesocket]

Exactly. Which is completely different. This is a business, being taxed by the government, that happened to be owned by the church. No church officials were involved in the wedding in any way.

[mormonanswerman]

see, they DID sue. Asking to use church property is the SAME THING as performing the ceremony if those things are against a church's teachings. Its like women asking to use the men's bathroom when men are in it, or vice versa. Just isn't done.

[sammyseattle]

Aparently you did not read the facts of the case. The facility is a gazebo that is always open to the public and available to the public to hold functions, often weddings that the Methodists would not allow in their church building. What they did was select to which portion of the public they would provide use of this structure. That was the illegal part.

[DIEGOSHAY]

No, it of course is NOT the same thing. There's no way you don't know this. "Performing a marriage" is not a complicated concept. No minister stood before the couple. No one declared them married before God. The ceremony wasn't even religious in nature and even more importantly, the ceremony wasn't even an actual marriage! NJ doesn't allow gay marriage. It was a building that the church rented to the public, weather they were Methodist or not.

[DIEGOSHAY]

When you rent to the public, you are no longer a church, and you can't discriminate. Just like a store can't put up a "White's Only" sign. Your bathroom example is nonsensical. Even in that example no one is being asked to do anything against their beliefs. It is truly a terrible analogy. You're wrong on all the facts. All of them. A lesser man might accuse you of deliberately being wrong, aka "lies". And lying in God's name is particularly shameful.

[DanOLGB]

No it's not just semantics, there's a difference between a for profit business and a religion. Should Zion's National Bank be allowed to refuse Jewish customers? No! You're arguments are weak.

[DanOLGB]

Instead of putting up some claim, why don't you cite some references to the case. They were not sued for not performing the marriage, nor was it for use of a Methodist Church, but for campground property run and licensed as a business. Please tell the truth, not spread rumors.

[mormonanswerman]

semantics.

when the lesbian couple filed the complaint with the state agency, essentially attacking the Methodist run organization, this thing ends up in the courts. don't talk semantics with me over the details. the fact remains that this is serious serious business where a religious organization is being forced, by law, to conform to a standard that runs contrary to their beliefs, and that this is a NEW development in our culture. Its serious. Don't demean the severity of it.

[eddiesocket]

What's this couple's name? Where are the details? You are a liar and a disgrace.

[eddiesocket]

The truth is not "semantics".  If you truly were a man of God, you would know that.

[eddiesocket]

Yes exactly, there are NO references to this "case" on google, except for this Youtube video. The poster is a liar and a disgrace.

[LunaVenus88]

YAY!!! Down with bull good job to the ppl who stood up for the right to marry.

[hinyaha]

Vote Yes on Prop. 8

[MysticalMind]

interesting video, however i do believe it is christian propaganda at its best. I don't understand why those two women would want to get married in a church in the first place but who am I to judge. I believe that if any type of service wether it is a manicure or IVF or whatever is denied to a group of ppl then i consider it to be discrimination. but sueing a church isnt gonna make any difference unless they are trying to make a point. this is what activism is all about. gay or christian.

[sammyseattle]

The women did not sue because they had asked to have a Methodist wedding performed as the title of this video trys to mislead. They sued for being excluded from having a non-Methodist commitment ceremony in a pavillion operated by the Methodist community and open to the publc for which the Methodist community receives tax breaks.

[grazon]

And if gay marriage is legalized in California how would you feel if a Church was sued for refusing to allow a gay wedding ceremony to take place in it's chapel?

[sammyseattle]

I would feel that the suit should be dismissed under a summary judgement as it is within the church's first amendment right to refuse. Churches have always had the right to decide who they would marry within the walls or their sanctuaries.

[grazon]

I've heard differently from other gay activits.

[sammyseattle]

Who are these activists and what have you heard?

[grazon]

netizens

[sammyseattle]

That doesn't constitute a very reliable sampling given the number of trolls, etc.

[grazon]

go on over to crooksandliars.

Wait for the topic of religion to come up.

The level of hate is shocking.

[sammyseattle]

No more shocking than the hate that I see from christian sites every day.

[grazon]

Fred Phelps et al hardly count as Christians.

[eddiesocket]

You're lying, just as the poster of this video is lying. No church has ever been sued and been forced to perform a gay marriage.

[eddiesocket]

You're right. It WOULD be dismissed, if it existed. But it doesn't. The poster of the vid made it up. He's a shameless liar.

[eddiesocket]

This has nothing to do with Prop 8. Stop trying to confuse the issue. Legal marriage is a civil term, not a religious one.

[grazon]

Oh but it does.

recognition of gay marriage would give gays legal footing from which they could sue any nomination that refuses to allow them to be married in their church(s).

[eddiesocket]

That's a bold-faced lie. Oh, but it doesn't. Just as today a Jewish couple can't force a christian church to perform their marriage. Or a couple that already lives together can't force a church to marry them if that church refuses on the basis of morality. The church and state are SEPARATE. Gay marriage has been legal already for months, and yet no churches have been forced to perform any ceremonies, despite the lies on this video.

[grazon]

Well aren't you charming?

just who the hell are you to accuse me of a bold faced lie?

[eddiesocket]

Don't lie, and I won't have to accuse you of being a liar.

[grazon]

I'm not lying.

But go ahead keep accusing me of doing so you don't help you cause in the slightest.

[eddiesocket]

As soon as you can provide evidence of ONE SINGLE CASE of a church being forced to perform a gay marriage against its will, then you will remain a liar.

[grazon]

At no point have I claimed a church has been forced to perform a gay marriage against its will.

Now who's lying?

Time to cut your loses and leave.

Better yet go bother AnonymousBChurch he's a member of the westburo baptist cult and online right now.

[eddiesocket]

You said it "opens the door". It doesn't. You're lying to try and scare people because you're desperate and you know prop8 is going to lose. The court ruling says the STATE must recognize gay couples as legally married. Religious ceremonies have nothing to do with the law or marriage in a legal sense. They are not required for a marriage to be legal. Many str8 couples aren't married in a church. So with gay marriage legal there is no grounds for forcing a church to do anything. Liar.

[grazon]

blah blah blah

You got busted lying and ow you're trying to draw attention away from that.

[eddiesocket]

You say blah blah blah because you know I'm right on the merits and you have no argument against it. Typical conservative. And I didn't lie at all and we both know it.

[grazon]

Your a mind reader to now?

[eddiesocket]

Well then, what's your argument. Since you apparently have one.  And P.S. Learn to spell.

[grazon]

PS I don't bother to check my spelling when dealing with BS spewing schmucks.

[eddiesocket]

Everything I said was 100% true. Sorry you can't handle it.

[grazon]

Sure you were telling the truth when you claimed to know what I think.

[listenstoopinions]

Page 117 of the ruling from the CA Supreme Court reads:

Finally, affording same-sex couples the opportunity to obtain the designation of marriage will not impinge upon the religious freedom of any religious organization, official, or any other person; no religion will be required to change its religious policies or practices with regard to same-sex couples, and no religious officiant will be required to solemnize a marriage in contravention of his or her religious beliefs.

[grazon]

And laws never change?

yeah right.

[listenstoopinions]

Actually, they don't. New laws are created. And creating a new law to mandate religious organizations or religious persons to perform a same-sex marriage if it's against said organizations or persons belief would be a violation of church & state, and would violate the very ruling handed down in the Supreme Court's recent decision. And that would be unconstitutional in and of itself.

[grazon]

Blah Blah Blah you know what I meant.

[dohryguy]

I'm pretty sure that laws DO change. Does this line from California State Code (2000- 2008) sound familiar? "Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California" That law certainly has changed...

[agill4oc]

Figures "Christians" as they call themselves lying to the public....Isn't that a SIN???!!!...

Churches ARE NOT forced to marrying homosexuals and that is a lie! This is a sleazy tactic by people like the evangelicals to "sway" the vote...Yet californians will see right through them...

[ScottsdaleStylee]

agill -- What is untruthful about this video?

I think that the GLBT movement is being dishonest with the public by telling us that Prop 8 is an issue regarding rights, although it is NOT.

[howller]

The title of this video is deceptive. It wasn't a "gay marriage," it was a simple commitment ceremony for two lesbians. Nor was it even in a state which recognizes same-sex marriage. Nor was the church asked to perform the ceremony. The Methodist church owned the venue and opened it up to the public for a variety of events and to people of any faith. They were called out for denying it to the lesbian couple but offering it to everyone else. This is about discrimination. It's not due to SSM.

[mormonanswerman]

Once the government dictates what a religion must do and believe, then the government has a state religion, which is against the Bill of Rights.

What a slippery slope this gay issue is foisting upon us, and this is why if Christians all over don't wake up and get the news out to vote, we will pay dearly for this end-run.

[superdawg1984]

When a religion dictates what our government must do and believe, then that religion has a state which is the end of the secular principles our nation was founded upon, which is the end of the Constitution.

[grazon]

I don't recall having heard that abortion has been outlawed or that students are being forced to pray to Jesus in public schools.

[eddiesocket]

But that's the goal, right? That's why good people are fighting you guys with all we've got.

[grazon]

Oh look the mind reader is back.

[ScottsdaleStylee]

sdawg- How is religion dictating what our government must do?

[eddiesocket]

How will you "pay for it"? Nothing has changed for you. You still can get married. Your family is still "protected". You've never been threatened. You're the bully, not the bullied.

[SpeckCipher]

Waite. A government organization forced a church to marry two men? Doesn't that violate separation of church and state? If the church is stare funded then no because then it is a government organization. But last I checked churches are privatively funded and a marriage in most churches one has to pay to marry. What stupid judge said the founding fathers were wrong?

[grazon]

That's the big threat of gay weddings.

Once they are recognized by the state it is inevitable that some assholes will sue a denomination that won't allow the wedding to take place in their Church.

And once they win that lawsuit the bill of rights will be dead.

The government will have started dictating what our religions should believe.

[SpeckCipher]

Isn't this how revolutions are started? After so many more actions like these, people who are aware will take action. It's a good thing those that have already started have done so with in the system however flawed it may be. Hopefully sanity will win.

[grazon]

If the day comes that they force a Minister to perform a gay wedding ceremony in his Church Americans will have two choices.

One of them is get the hell out before the government starts killing people for not agreeing with the state religion (or lack of).

The other option I'm not ready to think about yet.

[adamblack3030]

If gays are allowed to get married.. it will tear the structure of the united States apart with higher taxes, and make prices go up. This is what happened when women was allowed to work. The income of a single house hold was based on 2 people, and with gay marriage it will be greater nation wide.

[omiolo]

"The granddaddy of all battles will be fought over tax exemptions," Stern said.

He cited a case in which a religious organization that rented out its gazebo for weddings refused to rent it for a same-sex marriage and as a result had its property tax exemption suspended. The case remains under appeal, Stern said.

[omiolo]

"The Sea Scouts, a branch of the Boy Scouts of America, was denied use of a public wharf in California because Boy Scouts do not permit homosexuals as leaders."

[Budmax305]

More Right Wing propaganda! The Methodist church group (not the church itself) put their tax exempt status at risk and THAT is what they lost. They claimed the property was open to the public and received tax exemption for saying that...then they try to renig on it! You can't take public money and be selective in your public duty! Plain and simple. THE CHURCH CAN STILL DO WHAT IT WANTS ON THE REST OF IT'S LAND!!!!! Stop spinning the issue to your ideas!

[mormonanswerman]

You have not read the article on NPR. and I didn't say the whole Methodist Church was under the attack, but all of these things set the precedent for the next, and the next, and then the noose is all around the neck of Christian churches all over. We can't be fooled on this, no matter how YOU spin this to your amoral and secular advantage.

that gay couple cost the Methodists in that area BIG BUCKS, for what, trying to force a church to go against its belief system?

[mormonanswerman]

the gay couple should have been sued for all the trouble they caused, trying to impose their value system on others that didn't want it, and had no legal obligation to take it.

This is America where people have rights from the BILL of RIGHTS which supercedes any hurt feelings. There are no rights that say you can financial hurt others for your hurt feelings. Only a scrappy lawyer could make that possible, and we have way too many of them...

[Budmax305]

Bill of rights...what about gay people's bill of rights?? They don't get any because your faith says so? That's the same fanaticism that we're fighting in Iraq (but that's another debate). Gay people pay taxes...but they don't get any benefits? That's rubbish!

[mormonanswerman]

Bachelors pay taxes and don't get any benefits. Same difference. They might even shack up with a girl. SAME DIFFERENCE. If he doesn't want to play by the rules, that is his choice.

[Budmax305]

My info is from the NY Times on 9/18/07 titled "Group Loses Tax Break Over Gay Union Issue" by J. Capuzzo. It makes it pretty clear what the legal finding is based on.

Think about it another way...what if they declined the request by a muslim couple. I feel that since the property is used by the general public (regardless of intended use), the tax exemption status is violated. If the church wants to keep their exemption, close the pavillion in!

You spin - I spin! But I'm not amoral!!!!

[omiolo]

"An Orthodox Jewish university that designated certain housing for married couples only was accused of discrimination for denying a same-sex couple a place there and eventually was forced to open the housing to any couple."

[myway43]

If it goes in California, it is just a matter of time before this abomination spreads across this Country. Churches in other States must begin to prepare for these legal challenges in the near future. Unfortunately there are some Churches that have been pandering to the homosexuals, we have one not far from us. But we have to fight to defend the institution of marriage down to our last breath.

[mormonanswerman]

absolutely

[mormonanswerman]

NPR, cont., On January 28, 2008, the New Mexico Human Rights Commission heard the case of Vanessa Willock v. Elane Photography.

Willock, in the midst of planning her wedding to her girlfriend, sent the photography company an e-mail request to shoot the commitment ceremony. Elaine Huguenin, who owns the company with her husband, replied: "We do not photograph same-sex weddings. But thanks for checking out our site! Have a great day!"

Willock filed a complaint

[mormonanswerman]

NPR, cont.,

Photography SUIT cont., holding back tears, "There was a shock and anger and fear. ... We were planning a very happy day for us, and we're being met with hatred. That's how it felt."

At the hearing, Jonathan Huguenin said that when he and his wife formed the company two years ago, they made it company policy not to shoot same-sex ceremonies, because the ceremonies conflicted with their Christian beliefs.

[mormonanswerman]

"We wanted to make sure that everything we photographed — everything we used our artistic ability for, everything we told a story for or conveyed a message of — would be in line with our values and our beliefs," he said.

The defendants' attorney, Jordan Lorence at ADF, says that of course a Christian widget-maker cannot fire an employee because he's gay. But it's different when the company or a religious charity is being forced to endorse something they don't believe, he says.

[mormonanswerman]

"It's a very different situation when we're talking about promoting a message," Lorence says. "When it's 'We want to punish you for not helping us promote our message that same-sex marriage is OK,' that for me is a very different deal. It's compelled speech. You're using the arm of the government for punishing people for disagreeing with you."

the state human rights commission found Elane Photography guilty of discrimination and must pay $6,600 attorneys' fee bill.

[myway43]

That is a simple travesty of justice. I believe every business has a fundamental right to refuse service, even if it based upon that businesses religious beliefs. The Judiciary stepping in and forcing, yet again, the will of the people to bend towards whatever whim the Homosexual Lobby wants. Time to stand up. The old saying, "Bend so you don't break", no longer applies. I would hope that there would be an overwhelming response from the numerous Churches in California.

[omiolo]

I didn't realize how much the homosexual community is trying to force their sexual proclivities on everyone else.

I did a google news search and I realized that private institutions with morality are their targets.

I think I will go and donate MORE money to the YES on Proposition 8.

[mormonanswerman]

A few more cases: Yeshiva University was ordered to allow same-sex couples in its married dormitory. A Christian school sued for expelling lesbian students. Catholic Charities abandoned adoption service in Massachusetts after it was told to place children with same-sex couples.

a doctor who refused to provide IVF services to a lesbian woman is about to lose his pending case before the California Supreme Court.

source: NPR (see link in description area for NPR's site.)

[beanpot302008]

2 Peter 2:6

And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemning them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly.

Jude 1:7

Even as Sodom and Gomorrah,and the cities about them in like manner,giving themselves over to fornication,and going after strange flesh,are set forth for an example,suffering the vengance of eternal fire.

[osmiolos]

He cited a case in which a religious organization that rented out its gazebo for weddings refused to rent it for a same-sex marriage and as a result had its property tax exemption suspended. The case remains under appeal, Stern said.

[osmiolos]

Marc D. Stern, general counsel for the American Jewish Congress, gave the closing talk at a daylong briefing in New York on the views of various religious traditions about homosexuality.

"The granddaddy of all battles will be fought over tax exemptions," Stern said.

[osmiolos]

"This matter is not just about same-sex unions," said Tooley. "It is about the freedom of a religious organization to uphold its own beliefs and establish policies for its own property."

[osmiolos]

"a discrimination charge brought against the Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Association by a pair of lesbians who wanted to use the private retreat campground for a "civil union" ceremony"

[Exodus314IAM]

Bottome line no matter how you put it anything other that a Man and a Woman being Married or together is a Sin! The Bible says it you need to treat is as such!

God Bless

[l3lackman2]

why must everyone be so polarized on such complicated issues? Here's one way to make things easy. We give the right to homosexual civil union. This can calm down religious people as it is not an official religious event. The homosexual couple can then add whatever religious significance to their ceremony. In this way, religious preservers get their untampered church while homosexuals get the rights that are deserved for married couples.

[mormonanswerman]

I wish it was that simple. I agree with you.  But they want marriage to include them, and yet marriage is a moral issue with churches. You can't mix homosexuality with that!

[l3lackman2]

of course both sides disagree. That's how it is because neither side can get around their shitty problems. What angers me the most is that the Church focuses on only parts of the interpreted BIble to come up with their political agendas. Which makes homosexuality a horrible sin with no forgiveness or condonement.

[Exodus314IAM]

Ok don't get me wrong here im not saying mormons condone homosexualality, but I heard that there was men being sealed to men! I know it was not meant as a homosexual thing (I hope) but can you see how this could be made to look bad?

Just a little info I dug up.

FYI kinda

God Bless

[snotface7]

where did you get that info? men are not sealed to men. they could have been brothers, both sealed to their parents.

[Exodus314IAM]

Mormons sealed living men to other men in an unusual ceremony known as "the law of adoption." Thus a man could have any number of men adopted to himself as his sons for eternity.

[snotface7]

i would like to see refrences to that.

[Exodus314IAM]

In June, 1896, Wilford Woodruff, the fourth president of the church, gave a synopsis of his work in the ministry since 1834. He wrote the following in his journal: "I officiated in Adopting 96 Men to Men." (Wilford Woodruff's Journal, 1833-1898, typescript, edited by Scott G. Kenney, 1985, Vol. 9, page 408)

[Exodus314IAM]

In another synopsis for the years 1834-1885, he revealed: "I had 45 Persons Adopted to me." (Ibid., Vol. 8, page 352)

[Exodus314IAM]

While we cannot agree with Michael Quinn's interpretation of Joseph Smith's speech given at the funeral of Lorenzo D. Barns, it is interesting to note that even before the Mormons left Nauvoo to come to Utah, they were sealing men to men.

[bytebear]

They were, but it was father to son, not husband to husband. Big difference. I am all for civil rights, but I think marriage is a private matter, and a religious one. Let the state do the civil unions, or better yet, domestic partnerships (i.e. mom to son, roommate to roommate, man to woman) but not marriage. The church's can handle that ceremony as a SYMBOL only, but have no civil ties. This way, every church can decide what to do in the case of gays.

[omiolo]

"They were, but it was father to son, not husband to husband. Big difference."

yeah but the latter sounds more scandalous and helps EXODUS tear down the LDS religion!!

[mormonanswerman]

I found a funny "straw man" video created by some older LDS guy, and favorited it. Check it out on my channel page. He's good, good actor for the camera...

[mormonanswerman]

Its called Smashing the Book of Mormon

[bytebear]

To be fair, I could see the LDS church in years to come, allowing tgay couples be sealed as eternal companions and to be given the blessings of ministering angels in the Celestial Kingdom.

[mormonanswerman]

I can't see that, because one, the sealing ordinance is for eternal lives, not companionship. 22 For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it,

[bytebear]

First of all, the gate is baptism, not sealing blessings. Second, you can be sealed to a parent, and still not inherit the blessings of endless procreation. Yes, gays would have to forgo the blessings of eternal progression, but not the blessings of celestial glory. There are three degrees within the Celestial Kingdom. We know the top is sealed in marriage, but what of the other two?

[omiolo]

"but not the blessings of celestial glory."

Alma 11:37

"he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins."

[bytebear]

You are assuming that a married gay couple are sinning. The church defines adultery as premarital or extramarital sex, so really, you are concerned that the civil "sin" is being lifted.

[Zanomatt]

The bible calls GAY SEX IMMORAL. Or do you not know where SODOMIZE came from? That's right , from SODOM and Gomorrah. Maybe you skipped that section of the Bible because IT doesn't conform to YOUR views?

Marriage is only between a man and a woman, ergo anything else is sin.

[bytebear]

The Bible also says you should sell your unruly children into slavery, but we don;t always go by the Levitical law. Sodom was also about unbridled sex with no commitment. Enacting gay marriage actually makes that scenario less likely.

[bytebear]

"Marriage is only between a man and a woman, ergo anything else is sin."

But this is no longer true. And, particularly for Mormons, this is a sticky proposal, because they did have marriage between a man and a woman, and another woman, etc.

I have no issue with the church restricting blessings, but legally they should butt out.  I also think the government should butt out too, and not have "marriage" but instead domestic partnership contracts for all unions.

[Zanomatt]

You are incorrect, no gay man can have celestial glory unless he is legally and lawfully wedded to a WOMAN. Go back to the TEMPLE, and listen this time.

[bytebear]

Celestial glory has three levels. Learn your doctrine. And if you have been going to the temple prior to 1990 then you know that things do change, particularly in the order of men and women.

[omiolo]

"To be fair, I could see the LDS church in years to come, allowing tgay couples be sealed"

since you are NOT a Prophet and do NOT speak for the church or God. I will stick with the Prophet that does!

[Zanomatt]

You need to listen to the teachings of the Prophets. No one will be denied celestial blessings, and even Hitler will be or has been sealed to someone in the Temple, but it is for GOD to decide, not man whether or not he will spend the eternities in the Telestial Kingdom or the Celestial Kingdom. As for me and my house, we will serve Christ. And Christ has taught me, through the Prophets, that Marriage is between a Man and a Woman. Nothing else is meet in the sight of God.

[bytebear]

What about plural marriage? God has at times extended the marriage blessing to one man and many women. "... we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God." AofF 9

[avantexec]

Very interesting! What does this have to do with same-sex marriage? LOL You know, when a man and a woman procreate, they can have male OR female children. Those children might even grow up to be men and women. LOL!!!

[Exodus314IAM]

Has nothing to do with it. I said Mormons don't condone homosexualality or Gay Marriage.

It was just FYI, maybe check into it a little more.

God Bless

[Justcurious51]

The unfortunate news for you is that more people want secularism. Very few people are as devoted as you, and the one's who are certainly don't vote in California.

[mormonanswerman]

I have been hearing that in some places near where I live, the vast majority are in favor of voting yes on Prop 8. But I think in cities like LA and SF we have a big difference there, expected...

[Justcurious51]

Fortunately for me, more people live in cities than rural religious counties. The diverse nature of cities make accepting gay marriage much easier.

[mormonanswerman]

yeah, but do they vote?

[Justcurious51]

Uh, yeah. I register them.

[jamesappleridge]

...lives their life, but i am tired of being told i am wrong for seeing queer as queer, i am not saying it is a bad thing or good thing, but as animals our goal is to continue the species, and mate, this is the way of nature, just how it goes, but if you are queer, accept it as it is, you are not anymore "gay" than the next guy, you hide behind happy words, why, i think it's to hide a shame, or insecurity, just my thought. peace love and happiness jimmy

[jamesappleridge]

by the very nature of it being a religious church, they are bound by a "faith based doctrine" this faith says man and man can not marry, and be blessed by "their" god. the state can not force a religion to change, homosexuals have "no" rights under the laws of the "church" to demand a wedding, simple as that. Homosexuals should be free to "marry" and it could be in a "church" if the god of that faith condones, we have politally corrected ourselves to the verge of chains, i don't care ......

[mormonanswerman]

amen to that. thanks for your comments Jimmy

[paulineSherris]

i understand that every person has the right to believe in w/e they want (im catholic) so i have no problem with gay marriage but common.. in church?that's ridiculous!

we believe its a sin, so why would we be part of your sin? i have no problem with homosexuals but keep your gay marriage out of the church

[mormonanswerman]

if you live in California, please vote, if you don't please send the protectmarriage website some donation because we want to protect this.

[mormonanswerman]

if you live in Utah or any state in this union, you should send money to protectmarriage and help stop this cancer to our marriage rights, our church rights, and the constitutional right we have to worship how, where, or what we may.

I am convinced this is a turning point, and we need help. Its not just a California issue. Anyone can send money, and I believe the gays are very organized on that. They are sending from all over the world. They are electing people like the San Fran Mayor, w/money

[mormonanswerman]

here's the problem.

gays come out of their closets, but then they want to come into the privacy of our closets. I pray in my closet, so please stay out of it.

When it comes to church, the gays have already overstepped their bounds and are using the court system to force churches to pay damages to individuals that were denied a marriage in the sanctuary of a church that doesn't do that.

Its like forcing a football player to don a tu tu

[mormonanswerman]

OK, bad analogy, because I think the gays would actually like that and say, "yeah!" Gotta remember the context here. Its difficult.

[l3lackman2]

I've already made a comment pertaining to my view, but I seem destined to provide the dissenting opinion.

You seem so extremely defensive about the protection of the authenticity and power of the church. Why is the church more valuable than our governmental system? Why must churches constantly step into the political "closet" and use religion to manipulate the system. Why don't we stop THEM from interfering and overstepping into our lives?

Hope that made sense.

[Justcurious51]

Talking position on political issues. Such as the letter to california mormons telling them to vote yes on prop 8, for one example.

[mormonanswerman]

its not political for us.

[mormonanswerman]

Thats a bad example, because churches get involved in moral issues all the time. Stop the casinos, stop the prostitution, stop the denigration of the marriage covenant, stop the engulfing secularism. Not political. A defense, yes.

[Justcurious51]

Meh. Churches are the one's that started blurring the church/state line. They sort of brought it on themselves.

[mormonanswerman]

How did we blur the lines? I am not tuned in to that concept...probably because it isn't based in fact... but do explain. Please.

[mormonanswerman]

Here are just a few frame shots from the video. Very compelling discussion and presentation, and most especially the current events with the Methodist Church getting sued for not performing a gay marriage. Tricky stuff, and most gays are not thinking about this, but SOME ARE. It needs to be stopped because it is a SLIPPERY SLOPE and we will be slouching into gomorrahville if we don't act.

[Justcurious51]

Oh, and btw, the cultural war has already been decided.

[chordboard]

the culture war has just begun and you guys started it, for some strange reason.

[mormonanswerman]

The culture war is one thing, but bringing your values into our churches is another thing. STAY OUT of our churches. But we can see from this video that the gays are bringing the courts into our churches. Its bad and it must be stopped.