atonement, see Vladimir Moss The Mystery of Redemption online for patristic support of this, against the innovation of total rejection of it, begun mostly by ROCOR Met. Anthony Khrapovitsky who almost went on a heresy trial, but escaped this by agreeing to stop teaching this and his alternate theory moral redemption (he pretended to have discovered as new insight, but Abelard invented this). Still more patristic and later sources in yahoo egroup substitutionary_atonement_in_orthodoxy files.
excellent work, however the penal substitutionary atonement thing IS part of the ancient faith, as to be found buried here and there as a taken for granted point, on which hinge turns all the rest of the points about the Redemption, Christus Victor, etc. For instance, Wikipedia says that St. John Cassian preached theosis instead of atonement, but in his explanation of why various prayers are offered at certain hours, he states atonement doctrine as per Christ going on the Cross.
respectfully, david, do you explain why (I get the impression) that Eastern Orthodox seem to have less of a problem with the Assyrians, Ethiopians and Copts, than with the Catholics?
John 6:54 refutes protestantism since it shows Protestantism has renounced food for eternal life , Holy Eucharist, available in Eastern Orthodox Church for almost 2000 years now.
David you are a brilliant man-thank you for all your time doing these programmes....they are highly intelligent, methodical, and organised....Many Years....
Wow. Where to start. Forgive me because I consider you a brother in Christ, but you sound like a throughly indoctrinated young man who has not truly ventured out of your circle to confirm what your teachers have told you. Calvin, Jewel, Luther, and Bucer all drew heavily from Augustine but they all saw themselves as Nicene Christians who were just as entrenched in the fathers as any Orthodox monk. You act like Gnostics who have some hidden knowledge. The Fathers are there for all to read.
@ic2705 Wow. You don't know me. Perhaps you should be less judgmental and more willing to engage in a conversation with mutual respect?
It doesn't matter how Calvin, Luther, etc. saw themselves; it matters what they really were. And they were a departure from the Church Fathers and from Nicene Orthodoxy. Luther reintroduced Marcionism; Calvin reintroduced Gnosticism. And, yes, both drew heavily from Augustine -- and that is precisely the problem. Augustine is a single dissenting voice.
@Christisms The Eastern Orthodox Churches of today consist of fourteen or fifteen autocephalous churches and five autonomous churches, sometimes referred to as jurisdictions.
These two used to be autonomous Orthodox Churches, but have been entirely wiped out: Nubia (destroyed approx. 800 by Muslims) and China (destroyed during the Boxer Rebellion in the early 20th century and Cultural Revolution of 1966).
@davidpwithun Thanks for the info also now in the present time The Church of Ukraine is an autonomous Orthodox church whose primate is confirmed by the Church of Russia. And The Church of Japan is an autonomous Orthodox church, whose primate is confirmed by the Church of Russia. And for example my Church The Orthodox Church of Latvia is a semi-autonomous part of the Russian Orthodox Church with canonical jurisdiction in Latvia.
With The Chinese Orthodox Church it is all so complicated now...The government of the People's Republic of China extends official recognition to five religions communities: Buddhism, Catholicism, Islam, Protestantism, and Taoism, but not to Orthodox Christianity. The major political obstacle is the government's fear that external political forces from outside nations — in this case, primarily Russia — could achieve influence within China.
Several Orthodox congregations, mainly of elderly individuals, continue to meet in Beijing and northeast China (including Heilongjiang), with, apparently, the tacit consent of the government. As of 2005 there was one priest; however, a number of Chinese nationals are currently studying in Orthodox seminaries in Russia, with the intent of returning to China to serve in priestly ministry.
Two former Orthodox churches in Shanghai, until recently, were being used as restaurants and nightclubs.
Meanwhile, as of the early 21st century, the church operates freely in Hong Kong (where the Ecumenical Patriarchate has sent Metr. Nikitas (Lulias)) and Taiwan (where Hieromonk Jonah (Mourtos) leads a mission church) under the Orthodox Metropolitanate of Hong Kong and Southeast Asia.
In December 2007, the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church decided at its winter session to open a department concerned with the Chinese Orthodox Autonomous Church (COAC), stressing the need to continue efforts taken by its Department for External Church Relations in the dialogue with the Chinese authorities to normalize the situation of the Orthodox Church in China.
May God bless their efforts to revive the Chinese Orthodox Church. One of the saddest, and most overlooked, stories in Orthodox Christian history, I think -- in fact, in Christian history in general, as the Nestorian Church was once a major religion in China, but was wiped out in the Middle Ages.
Have you heard also of the OCA's and the ROCOR's efforts amongst natives in southern Mexico and Guatemala? Apparently, there is a rather large group of Mayans in Mexico studying to be accepted into
the OCA, and there is a group in Guatemala of over half a million people getting ready to be received into Orthodoxy by ROCOR. The Church is definitely making some big strides right now in missionary work. In Tanzania (a central African country), where my former priest's daughter is going to do missionary work, the number of people coming to Orthodoxy is growing by leaps and bounds. Keep the missions in your prayers! :)
Yeah the situation in Haiti is realiy sad our brothers and sisters there need all the prayers we can get them! I've heard about OCA efforts and am praying that they will be a success for Christ's Kingdom! May the LIGHT of Orthodoxy shine all other the world!
I forgot also to mention the mission in Haiti, which was deeply affected by the recent earthquake there. They also are in need in much prayer and support right now.
USSRangel gave you the correct numbers; I thought I might supplement that with the names of the Churches. The 15 autocephalous (indepent, self-governing) churches are: Constantinople, Alexandria (Africa), Antioch (Middle East & India), Jerusalem, Russia, Serbia, Romania, Bulgaria, Georgia, Cyprus, Greece, Poland, Albania, Czech lands & Slovakia, and America.
The autonomous (self-governing, but dependent upon one of the autocephalous churches) churches are: Finland, Estonia, Mount Sinai, ...
@Christisms If you are interested there is a great documentary about different Orthodox Churches in the world it is called Planet Orthodox and you can find parts of it with English subtitles here on YT. Our Father (Swahili) hart is with subtitles on YT but others are here in Russian only for the moment.
Oh and also there is an English sustitled part named Our Father (multi-national) there you can see The Orthodox Church of Japan, Orthodox Church of America, Indonesian Orthodox Church - Fr Daniel Bayantoro there ia just an extraordinary man and great preacher! Hope you'll like it!
atonement, see Vladimir Moss The Mystery of Redemption online for patristic support of this, against the innovation of total rejection of it, begun mostly by ROCOR Met. Anthony Khrapovitsky who almost went on a heresy trial, but escaped this by agreeing to stop teaching this and his alternate theory moral redemption (he pretended to have discovered as new insight, but Abelard invented this). Still more patristic and later sources in yahoo egroup substitutionary_atonement_in_orthodoxy files.
infowolf1 3 weeks ago
excellent work, however the penal substitutionary atonement thing IS part of the ancient faith, as to be found buried here and there as a taken for granted point, on which hinge turns all the rest of the points about the Redemption, Christus Victor, etc. For instance, Wikipedia says that St. John Cassian preached theosis instead of atonement, but in his explanation of why various prayers are offered at certain hours, he states atonement doctrine as per Christ going on the Cross.
infowolf1 3 weeks ago
respectfully, david, do you explain why (I get the impression) that Eastern Orthodox seem to have less of a problem with the Assyrians, Ethiopians and Copts, than with the Catholics?
XSC3 1 month ago
Что он говорит?
muertecivil 3 months ago
indeed, good presentation. intelligent,methodical,informative . I also learned a lot
delagrazia 4 months ago
John 6:54 refutes protestantism since it shows Protestantism has renounced food for eternal life , Holy Eucharist, available in Eastern Orthodox Church for almost 2000 years now.
IoanIlieMinaGheorghe 9 months ago
David you are a brilliant man-thank you for all your time doing these programmes....they are highly intelligent, methodical, and organised....Many Years....
XDragasesX 1 year ago
This is a good presentation. i wish this guy would make more Orthodox Christian videos. Well done. I learned something.
6972741595 1 year ago
Wow. Where to start. Forgive me because I consider you a brother in Christ, but you sound like a throughly indoctrinated young man who has not truly ventured out of your circle to confirm what your teachers have told you. Calvin, Jewel, Luther, and Bucer all drew heavily from Augustine but they all saw themselves as Nicene Christians who were just as entrenched in the fathers as any Orthodox monk. You act like Gnostics who have some hidden knowledge. The Fathers are there for all to read.
ic2705 1 year ago
@ic2705 Wow. You don't know me. Perhaps you should be less judgmental and more willing to engage in a conversation with mutual respect?
It doesn't matter how Calvin, Luther, etc. saw themselves; it matters what they really were. And they were a departure from the Church Fathers and from Nicene Orthodoxy. Luther reintroduced Marcionism; Calvin reintroduced Gnosticism. And, yes, both drew heavily from Augustine -- and that is precisely the problem. Augustine is a single dissenting voice.
davidpwithun 1 year ago 7
nice video thanx..
you look a little weak like you tired..
peace
kiransimon15 1 year ago
I was very tired when I made these videos. It was pretty late at night ;)
davidpwithun 1 year ago
How many churches are there in that are categorized under the umbrella of Eastern Orthodoxy?
Christisms 1 year ago
@Christisms The Eastern Orthodox Churches of today consist of fourteen or fifteen autocephalous churches and five autonomous churches, sometimes referred to as jurisdictions.
USSRangel85 1 year ago
Japan, and the Ukraine.
These two used to be autonomous Orthodox Churches, but have been entirely wiped out: Nubia (destroyed approx. 800 by Muslims) and China (destroyed during the Boxer Rebellion in the early 20th century and Cultural Revolution of 1966).
davidpwithun 1 year ago
@davidpwithun Thanks for the info also now in the present time The Church of Ukraine is an autonomous Orthodox church whose primate is confirmed by the Church of Russia. And The Church of Japan is an autonomous Orthodox church, whose primate is confirmed by the Church of Russia. And for example my Church The Orthodox Church of Latvia is a semi-autonomous part of the Russian Orthodox Church with canonical jurisdiction in Latvia.
USSRangel85 1 year ago
So there is a lot of different things heppening in the Body of Christ and it is never boring)))
USSRangel85 1 year ago
With The Chinese Orthodox Church it is all so complicated now...The government of the People's Republic of China extends official recognition to five religions communities: Buddhism, Catholicism, Islam, Protestantism, and Taoism, but not to Orthodox Christianity. The major political obstacle is the government's fear that external political forces from outside nations — in this case, primarily Russia — could achieve influence within China.
USSRangel85 1 year ago
Several Orthodox congregations, mainly of elderly individuals, continue to meet in Beijing and northeast China (including Heilongjiang), with, apparently, the tacit consent of the government. As of 2005 there was one priest; however, a number of Chinese nationals are currently studying in Orthodox seminaries in Russia, with the intent of returning to China to serve in priestly ministry.
USSRangel85 1 year ago
Two former Orthodox churches in Shanghai, until recently, were being used as restaurants and nightclubs.
Meanwhile, as of the early 21st century, the church operates freely in Hong Kong (where the Ecumenical Patriarchate has sent Metr. Nikitas (Lulias)) and Taiwan (where Hieromonk Jonah (Mourtos) leads a mission church) under the Orthodox Metropolitanate of Hong Kong and Southeast Asia.
USSRangel85 1 year ago
In December 2007, the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church decided at its winter session to open a department concerned with the Chinese Orthodox Autonomous Church (COAC), stressing the need to continue efforts taken by its Department for External Church Relations in the dialogue with the Chinese authorities to normalize the situation of the Orthodox Church in China.
USSRangel85 1 year ago
May God bless their efforts to revive the Chinese Orthodox Church. One of the saddest, and most overlooked, stories in Orthodox Christian history, I think -- in fact, in Christian history in general, as the Nestorian Church was once a major religion in China, but was wiped out in the Middle Ages.
Have you heard also of the OCA's and the ROCOR's efforts amongst natives in southern Mexico and Guatemala? Apparently, there is a rather large group of Mayans in Mexico studying to be accepted into
davidpwithun 1 year ago
the OCA, and there is a group in Guatemala of over half a million people getting ready to be received into Orthodoxy by ROCOR. The Church is definitely making some big strides right now in missionary work. In Tanzania (a central African country), where my former priest's daughter is going to do missionary work, the number of people coming to Orthodoxy is growing by leaps and bounds. Keep the missions in your prayers! :)
davidpwithun 1 year ago
Yeah the situation in Haiti is realiy sad our brothers and sisters there need all the prayers we can get them! I've heard about OCA efforts and am praying that they will be a success for Christ's Kingdom! May the LIGHT of Orthodoxy shine all other the world!
USSRangel85 1 year ago
I forgot also to mention the mission in Haiti, which was deeply affected by the recent earthquake there. They also are in need in much prayer and support right now.
davidpwithun 1 year ago
USSRangel gave you the correct numbers; I thought I might supplement that with the names of the Churches. The 15 autocephalous (indepent, self-governing) churches are: Constantinople, Alexandria (Africa), Antioch (Middle East & India), Jerusalem, Russia, Serbia, Romania, Bulgaria, Georgia, Cyprus, Greece, Poland, Albania, Czech lands & Slovakia, and America.
The autonomous (self-governing, but dependent upon one of the autocephalous churches) churches are: Finland, Estonia, Mount Sinai, ...
davidpwithun 1 year ago
@Christisms If you are interested there is a great documentary about different Orthodox Churches in the world it is called Planet Orthodox and you can find parts of it with English subtitles here on YT. Our Father (Swahili) hart is with subtitles on YT but others are here in Russian only for the moment.
USSRangel85 1 year ago
Oh and also there is an English sustitled part named Our Father (multi-national) there you can see The Orthodox Church of Japan, Orthodox Church of America, Indonesian Orthodox Church - Fr Daniel Bayantoro there ia just an extraordinary man and great preacher! Hope you'll like it!
USSRangel85 1 year ago