Once life evolves to the point of broadcasting its a short only a short before broadcasting would be done using compression algorithms.
Any signal compressed enough will be indistinguishable from noise. Without first decompressing any signal happen upon you're not likely going to see anything and that assumes you have the algorithm for decompression which you don't.
@ 3:05 It's not really a paradox. Why is the sky empty. Why we have not been visited by aliens? A paradox is supposed to be two arguments compelling to one another?
1. It is not the sky that is empty, but the radio frequency spectrum, which is very different.
2. It is a paradox - a conflict between the mathematical expectation (the probability of the existence of intelligent life-forms) and the lack of evidences in support of this. Absolute discrepancy.
Do not succumb to the coming "alien" strong delusion to help set up the antichrist's 7 year New World Order. Do not take his RFID marks used to buy and sell, do not worship him, nor his image in any way! Get saved and save as many others as possible while we still can!
Why don't you accept radar returns, photos and witnesses who say they have seen ufos? They are featured in old paintings and who built the megalithic stone structures? Religions are based on people with the power to ascend into the heavens. I think you scientists are being narrow minded and excluding evidence which negates Fermi's Paradox.
@RosUNwell There are many possibilities with aliens have you ever thought that the governement could be creating these ufos? Do you honestly believe that a civilization that is so advanced is going to come down and float in our sky? Come on now. If aliens were actually here, we would all know, or we would have no idea. They would either take us over, teach us new ways. Or never be spotted. Think about us to a dog, now think about the same distance in knowledge between us and an alien.
So extinct life is bad news, but what does he have to say about prosperous life? If we found evidence of prosperous life, would that reduce the probability of the great filter occuring in the future of our species? Would it be positive news?
So he's basically saying that it would be better if we discovered no traces of life at all, because that would imply that the life went extinct when it encountered the great filter, the stage of evolution in which most organisms perish. Without traces of extinct extraterrestrial life to give evidence that the great filter is common among life, it is safe to assume that we will not encounter the great filter in the future of our species.
Bosstrom's "Great Filter" is an intellectually exciting, horrifying, and enlightening idea. Thanks for posting this video. The History (UFO) Channel and the like need to be less tabloid and run some shows on the implications of the Fermi Paradox, etc.
Western pop culture has perhaps too loudly and for too long assumed we're not alone. The real thrill ride would be the slow realization that we actually are. A real "how can this be" tidalwave of wonderment with appropriate amounts of gut w
What baffles me is the fact that we can't see something resembling a Dyson sphere. It seems pretty logical that we may put solar panels in orbit one day. What if we put blocks of solar panels spaced in such a way that they pulse the prime numbers, as viewed by a Kepler type telescope. If we can do it, or even imagine it, it should be have already been done. Either our species is intentionally isolated, in a simulation, or maybe we would be gobbled up like a buzzing fly on a lake...
@trevorsaniga Or perhaps life is unique to Earth. Also, what do prime numbers have to do with intelligent life? Does ONLY intelligent life have the capacity to understand prime numbers? If so, spacing solar panels in such a way as to create odd numbers of them would certainly act as a way to attract other intelligent life monitoring the galaxy.
There might be a possibility of it being a bad thing, finding evidence of life on Mars, but not 100%. Any class 3 civilization wouldn't need to kill us.
Think about humans, we're still angry little monkeys that try to kill each other. Either we will destroy ourselves or violence in our society will disappear.
If there is or was life on Mars that would mean that life arose very easily so that there would be billions of planets with inteligent life which then reached the filter and became extinct. If we are unique than there is no bad news yet.
I don't understand. If we find extinct life that is evolutionarily less advanced than we are wouldn't that show the existence of the filter BEFORE a bare planet and us? That would be good news as it would show that we already likely advanced beyond the filter.
@BadBunnyRides There is a Dark Forest theory I read in a Chinese Sci-Fi novel, Three Bodies II - Dark Forest, it says the only choice for a more advanced civilisation in the universe to do when it'd discovered any other civilisation is to destroy the entire civilisation immediately, due to the so-called Suspicion Chain, just like hunters who have no time to communicate wandering in the dark forest.
@YYwb Agreed. I can't think of a single case, in our entire history, where a more advanced civilization upon meeting a less advanced one didn't destroy it.
It's a matter of spiecies survival and I don't think we're agressive enough to survive out in the Galaxy.
You know, it's like History repetes itself; we had the "Earth is All there is" attitude...then we had a HUGE ~Explorer Phase~...now we're back to the "Earth is it, why explore" attidtude.
only radio frequencies below approximately 50--54 megahertz will bounce off of the atmosphere and then back to earth.....everything above that range just goes right through it and into space.
5000 years is not very long to wait for direct contact. We can't even consider ourselves quarantined with only a five thousand year experience. Just because a blade of grass never gets stepped on doesn't mean people don't walk in the park.
SETI is undoubtedly looking at things wrong in that it searches for radio transmissions.
It's entirely possible alien life may be on planets where radiowaves are either difficult to use (because of the atmosphere) or that they started using telephone and then broadband/wifi/internet first of which it would be impossible to detect.
We can't see much through a telescope and radiowaves seems like a long shot when considering distance (and that the signals get scrambled over distance).
Ok, the drake equation is something like, the number of stars capable of having planets/the number of stars that have planets that can sustain life/ the number of planets that develop intelligent life... ect, I purpose the addition of the factor, The number of planets that develop fossil fuels/the number of planets that develop enough fossil fuels to enable advancement to surpass the dependency upon them... this seems to explain a lot of the Fermi paradox, unfortunately. Peak oil solves it.
Well it's time to face the truth :( At least in our galaxy alien life most likely exists, but not intelligent life ! There were 50 bilion species on this planet ! and only one has ability of interstellar communication. As you may now evolution is BLIND (its not always leading to intelligent species... an there are other factors)
Even if you assume that evolution is blind it still has a strong drift towards more complex structures as observed on this planet. So it seems to be only a matter of time until structures are complex enough to be what we define as able to solve complex problems (which is always a niche that needs to be filled).
There is no truth to face because we don't know the truth. We might be in a computer simulation within another one, in a biocentric universe, or aliens might live among us.
But what makes you think that intersteller communication constitutes intelligence?
That seems rather an arrogant statement, bigoted even.
Our ionosphere is what makes it possible for long and short wave radio signals to bounce up and then back down to the ground (correct me if i'm wrong) so another planet may not have the ionosphere to support radio transmission even if it is intelligent enough to do so.
And it might use internet instead which we cant detect.
The further we evolve "intellectually" the further we get from the truth. Ever think space and time may just be an illusion? No, because that would make all of your books and research irrelevant. You will find more answers in 10 years of meditation than in 10 years of research.
@wakeup3d : 1. great misinterpretation of physical theories 2. your interpretation is based on physical theories, so that would already show that research leads to greater insight 3. what you suggest if space and time didn't exist? we should stop researching so we can get eradicated by every hostile force of nature?
I think the answer is far more chilling and insidious. They can't talk to us, or they they won't talk to us.
If they were controlled by AI (likely) it could be friendly or dangerous. Either way, it would have reason to see us and others like it as a threat. That being the case, a universe full of mutually hostile AI, why broadcast your presence? Why not just plan sneak attacks or stealth defenses?
@Trotskyist100 i think it is likely very likely that if there was intelligent life that can find us and come to us at incredible speeds, that they have devolped morally to the point that they are not hostile. By the way, i dont believe that if there were life, that they are hiding. once the signals have been broadcast, they are irrevokable. the guy that invented television/radio/phone contact wasn't even considering the fact that he was broadcasting stuff.
@gondorious Firstly, you're supposing that the aliens have continued using EM radiation as means of communication. It could be lasers or some quantum phenomena for example. Secondly, the EM radiation that we emit has dropped in strength considerably with digital communication and only a small fraction of that is being broadcasted into space. The signal is weakening with years and now it's too weak to be detected at distances greater than say 100ly or so.And we're not even broadcasting that long.
gondorious The basis of this argument seems to claim that technologically advanced civilizations must either learn to get along peacefully, and therefore develop morally, or run the risk of annihilation from using super weapons etc. However, The Cold War, for example, didn't stop people from justifying wars - it only prevented those wars that threatened retaliation through nuclear weapons. Advanced civilisations might not necesserily become less hostile.
@Trotskyist100 Good way of thinking of it. I'm sure that if there was intelligent life out there, (which i am sure there is), they would observe the recklessness and natural violence of human beings and stay FAR away from us. Why would they even bother with such and inferior, hopeless species that would never last.
It is rather absurd to claim that in our hyper chaotic universe, of which we know 0,00000000000000000000000000000001% (and understand even less) one thing (being a "filter" in this case) might or might not be the blockage in path of evolution in any species. That would that "life/existence/..." is a line or a set of lines separating at certain key points. While it feels more like a web, where obstacles in a good amount of cases are dodged, worked around.
Why does there have to be a "filter?" It strikes me as a very human perspective and purely a reaction to current events and recent history. Modern humans are expected to be conscientious about the world (and rightfully so), but I think you'll be surprised to find that humans are doing much better than they give themselves credit for.
Where indeed lies the "great filter" maybe the universe is not filled with biological life at all and the filter serves to convert biological intelligence into cybernetic intelligence. Or and this is purely "futurism" the great filter is the singularity itself? ...
Once life evolves to the point of broadcasting its a short only a short before broadcasting would be done using compression algorithms.
Any signal compressed enough will be indistinguishable from noise. Without first decompressing any signal happen upon you're not likely going to see anything and that assumes you have the algorithm for decompression which you don't.
Bran4901 2 hours ago
Thank you for posting this, arlindbosh.
writersblock26 3 weeks ago
I wonder if two civilisations have been close enough to at least be aware of each others existence somewhere out there in the galaxy...
pilgrimoftheworld 1 month ago
Cellular Evolution is a dynamic filter -
TaylerKnox 1 month ago
@ 3:05 It's not really a paradox. Why is the sky empty. Why we have not been visited by aliens? A paradox is supposed to be two arguments compelling to one another?
1. It is not the sky that is empty, but the radio frequency spectrum, which is very different.
2. It is a paradox - a conflict between the mathematical expectation (the probability of the existence of intelligent life-forms) and the lack of evidences in support of this. Absolute discrepancy.
3. It is not about aliens, it is about us.
U1T001 1 month ago
Do not succumb to the coming "alien" strong delusion to help set up the antichrist's 7 year New World Order. Do not take his RFID marks used to buy and sell, do not worship him, nor his image in any way! Get saved and save as many others as possible while we still can!
fallenalien . com
AlienshateU 1 month ago
You know that the military have shot at ufos right?!!!!
RosUNwell 1 month ago
Why don't you accept radar returns, photos and witnesses who say they have seen ufos? They are featured in old paintings and who built the megalithic stone structures? Religions are based on people with the power to ascend into the heavens. I think you scientists are being narrow minded and excluding evidence which negates Fermi's Paradox.
RosUNwell 1 month ago
@RosUNwell There are many possibilities with aliens have you ever thought that the governement could be creating these ufos? Do you honestly believe that a civilization that is so advanced is going to come down and float in our sky? Come on now. If aliens were actually here, we would all know, or we would have no idea. They would either take us over, teach us new ways. Or never be spotted. Think about us to a dog, now think about the same distance in knowledge between us and an alien.
TheTheKRIT 4 weeks ago
So extinct life is bad news, but what does he have to say about prosperous life? If we found evidence of prosperous life, would that reduce the probability of the great filter occuring in the future of our species? Would it be positive news?
JITTERdUdEepic 1 month ago
So he's basically saying that it would be better if we discovered no traces of life at all, because that would imply that the life went extinct when it encountered the great filter, the stage of evolution in which most organisms perish. Without traces of extinct extraterrestrial life to give evidence that the great filter is common among life, it is safe to assume that we will not encounter the great filter in the future of our species.
JITTERdUdEepic 1 month ago
This guy is great. Very good reasoning.
GilbertoPOA 1 month ago
gamma ray bursts have sterilized most of the universe
boodistGeek 2 months ago
Bosstrom's "Great Filter" is an intellectually exciting, horrifying, and enlightening idea. Thanks for posting this video. The History (UFO) Channel and the like need to be less tabloid and run some shows on the implications of the Fermi Paradox, etc.
Western pop culture has perhaps too loudly and for too long assumed we're not alone. The real thrill ride would be the slow realization that we actually are. A real "how can this be" tidalwave of wonderment with appropriate amounts of gut w
gpd784 2 months ago 4
Fascinating, but also an incredibly depressing outlook. I love the idea that there might be other intelligent life out there...
jacderida 2 months ago
Everything seems to be good, but "evolution do something"? Evolutions supposed to be a "new" God or what?
metal87power 2 months ago
That looked like Ray Kurzweil doing the interview
LINCOLNREALESTATE1 3 months ago
What baffles me is the fact that we can't see something resembling a Dyson sphere. It seems pretty logical that we may put solar panels in orbit one day. What if we put blocks of solar panels spaced in such a way that they pulse the prime numbers, as viewed by a Kepler type telescope. If we can do it, or even imagine it, it should be have already been done. Either our species is intentionally isolated, in a simulation, or maybe we would be gobbled up like a buzzing fly on a lake...
trevorsaniga 4 months ago
@trevorsaniga Or perhaps life is unique to Earth. Also, what do prime numbers have to do with intelligent life? Does ONLY intelligent life have the capacity to understand prime numbers? If so, spacing solar panels in such a way as to create odd numbers of them would certainly act as a way to attract other intelligent life monitoring the galaxy.
JITTERdUdEepic 1 month ago
From 20,000 per Galaxy to Once per 15,000 Galaxy . . . I would side on the later due to Radiation.
lazyfreedom98 4 months ago
There might be a possibility of it being a bad thing, finding evidence of life on Mars, but not 100%. Any class 3 civilization wouldn't need to kill us.
Think about humans, we're still angry little monkeys that try to kill each other. Either we will destroy ourselves or violence in our society will disappear.
HighCardWins 4 months ago
If there is or was life on Mars that would mean that life arose very easily so that there would be billions of planets with inteligent life which then reached the filter and became extinct. If we are unique than there is no bad news yet.
zzscotty 6 months ago
I don't understand. If we find extinct life that is evolutionarily less advanced than we are wouldn't that show the existence of the filter BEFORE a bare planet and us? That would be good news as it would show that we already likely advanced beyond the filter.
thewiffenpoof 6 months ago
I see so the great filter theory... is also known as ... the Big Ups theory.
magua73 6 months ago
If we don't find them first...we're doomed.
BadBunnyRides 7 months ago
@BadBunnyRides There is a Dark Forest theory I read in a Chinese Sci-Fi novel, Three Bodies II - Dark Forest, it says the only choice for a more advanced civilisation in the universe to do when it'd discovered any other civilisation is to destroy the entire civilisation immediately, due to the so-called Suspicion Chain, just like hunters who have no time to communicate wandering in the dark forest.
YYwb 6 months ago
@YYwb Agreed. I can't think of a single case, in our entire history, where a more advanced civilization upon meeting a less advanced one didn't destroy it.
It's a matter of spiecies survival and I don't think we're agressive enough to survive out in the Galaxy.
You know, it's like History repetes itself; we had the "Earth is All there is" attitude...then we had a HUGE ~Explorer Phase~...now we're back to the "Earth is it, why explore" attidtude.
Again...we're doomed.
BadBunnyRides 6 months ago
only radio frequencies below approximately 50--54 megahertz will bounce off of the atmosphere and then back to earth.....everything above that range just goes right through it and into space.
w2aiq 8 months ago
5000 years is not very long to wait for direct contact. We can't even consider ourselves quarantined with only a five thousand year experience. Just because a blade of grass never gets stepped on doesn't mean people don't walk in the park.
BartofGod 8 months ago
SETI is undoubtedly looking at things wrong in that it searches for radio transmissions.
It's entirely possible alien life may be on planets where radiowaves are either difficult to use (because of the atmosphere) or that they started using telephone and then broadband/wifi/internet first of which it would be impossible to detect.
We can't see much through a telescope and radiowaves seems like a long shot when considering distance (and that the signals get scrambled over distance).
MDEMONIC689 9 months ago
@MDEMONIC689 If SETI took a good look at our DNA they would see the signal they are looking for.
BartofGod 8 months ago
And Nick is extremely pessimistic in his reasoning.
corusa 9 months ago
@corusa Most intelligent thinkers are.. I see it more as a rational mindset then a pessimistic mindset
Ying123Yang1 9 months ago
Fermi Paradox repeated by Nick Bostrom
corusa 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Ok, the drake equation is something like, the number of stars capable of having planets/the number of stars that have planets that can sustain life/ the number of planets that develop intelligent life... ect, I purpose the addition of the factor, The number of planets that develop fossil fuels/the number of planets that develop enough fossil fuels to enable advancement to surpass the dependency upon them... this seems to explain a lot of the Fermi paradox, unfortunately. Peak oil solves it.
1981busch 9 months ago
Well it's time to face the truth :( At least in our galaxy alien life most likely exists, but not intelligent life ! There were 50 bilion species on this planet ! and only one has ability of interstellar communication. As you may now evolution is BLIND (its not always leading to intelligent species... an there are other factors)
bukvabukva 10 months ago
@bukvabukva
Even if you assume that evolution is blind it still has a strong drift towards more complex structures as observed on this planet. So it seems to be only a matter of time until structures are complex enough to be what we define as able to solve complex problems (which is always a niche that needs to be filled).
There is no truth to face because we don't know the truth. We might be in a computer simulation within another one, in a biocentric universe, or aliens might live among us.
trakkaton 9 months ago
@bukvabukva
But what makes you think that intersteller communication constitutes intelligence?
That seems rather an arrogant statement, bigoted even.
Our ionosphere is what makes it possible for long and short wave radio signals to bounce up and then back down to the ground (correct me if i'm wrong) so another planet may not have the ionosphere to support radio transmission even if it is intelligent enough to do so.
And it might use internet instead which we cant detect.
MDEMONIC689 9 months ago
Comment removed
bukvabukva 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
more nick bostrom vidz would b good
PacifistDub 10 months ago
Comment removed
PacifistDub 10 months ago
I really do wonder sometimes if there is other life forms out there. I wonder if they wonder this too.
219kenzie 11 months ago
I can't believe I have never, not once, heard a scientist say finding evidence of life is bad news...
S2Cents 1 year ago
The further we evolve "intellectually" the further we get from the truth. Ever think space and time may just be an illusion? No, because that would make all of your books and research irrelevant. You will find more answers in 10 years of meditation than in 10 years of research.
wakeup3d 1 year ago
@wakeup3d : 1. great misinterpretation of physical theories 2. your interpretation is based on physical theories, so that would already show that research leads to greater insight 3. what you suggest if space and time didn't exist? we should stop researching so we can get eradicated by every hostile force of nature?
GRIJZEKAK 1 year ago
I think the answer is far more chilling and insidious. They can't talk to us, or they they won't talk to us.
If they were controlled by AI (likely) it could be friendly or dangerous. Either way, it would have reason to see us and others like it as a threat. That being the case, a universe full of mutually hostile AI, why broadcast your presence? Why not just plan sneak attacks or stealth defenses?
Trotskyist100 1 year ago
@Trotskyist100 i think it is likely very likely that if there was intelligent life that can find us and come to us at incredible speeds, that they have devolped morally to the point that they are not hostile. By the way, i dont believe that if there were life, that they are hiding. once the signals have been broadcast, they are irrevokable. the guy that invented television/radio/phone contact wasn't even considering the fact that he was broadcasting stuff.
gondorious 1 year ago
@gondorious Firstly, you're supposing that the aliens have continued using EM radiation as means of communication. It could be lasers or some quantum phenomena for example. Secondly, the EM radiation that we emit has dropped in strength considerably with digital communication and only a small fraction of that is being broadcasted into space. The signal is weakening with years and now it's too weak to be detected at distances greater than say 100ly or so.And we're not even broadcasting that long.
majst0r 1 year ago
gondorious The basis of this argument seems to claim that technologically advanced civilizations must either learn to get along peacefully, and therefore develop morally, or run the risk of annihilation from using super weapons etc. However, The Cold War, for example, didn't stop people from justifying wars - it only prevented those wars that threatened retaliation through nuclear weapons. Advanced civilisations might not necesserily become less hostile.
james87n 1 year ago
@Trotskyist100 Good way of thinking of it. I'm sure that if there was intelligent life out there, (which i am sure there is), they would observe the recklessness and natural violence of human beings and stay FAR away from us. Why would they even bother with such and inferior, hopeless species that would never last.
kyleman1313 1 year ago
@kyleman1313 For the same reason we bother with Microbes ? To learn.
mantrap9 1 year ago
we are alone in the universe
matchbox555 1 year ago
It is rather absurd to claim that in our hyper chaotic universe, of which we know 0,00000000000000000000000000000001% (and understand even less) one thing (being a "filter" in this case) might or might not be the blockage in path of evolution in any species. That would that "life/existence/..." is a line or a set of lines separating at certain key points. While it feels more like a web, where obstacles in a good amount of cases are dodged, worked around.
Deemzies 1 year ago
theres probably a lot of filters; the cosmos has been out to get us all along;
and yet here we are; HA! in - your - face, universe!
eyhexs 1 year ago
Why does there have to be a "filter?" It strikes me as a very human perspective and purely a reaction to current events and recent history. Modern humans are expected to be conscientious about the world (and rightfully so), but I think you'll be surprised to find that humans are doing much better than they give themselves credit for.
Digeridude 1 year ago
Where indeed lies the "great filter" maybe the universe is not filled with biological life at all and the filter serves to convert biological intelligence into cybernetic intelligence. Or and this is purely "futurism" the great filter is the singularity itself? ...
particleion 1 year ago
@particleion Interesting
pilgrimoftheworld 1 month ago
Humans barely count as sapient ^_^
PinkProgram 1 year ago
@PinkProgram sounds like a comment from a "program" a pink program ;-)
particleion 1 year ago