I can tell you from my experience, you don't need drugs. You can have enlightenment without them and there are advantages. For one, no brain damage, nerve damage, or organ damage. For another, you can know more easily if what you experience is real, I would think. It's like anything else in life - if you rush, if you push your body or mind unnaturally, you'll pop into some enhanced state for a short time, but you'll damage your natural abilities.
obviously i do not agree and all this damage you speak about depends on what your doing, I am obviously talking about entheogens, which cause none of the damage you speak of at least not in any regular amount and i am talking about using these tools properly
@TheGiantRobot your experience is not all peoples experience and i know for a fact you have not seen Ayahuasca (the spirit) without consumption of Ayahuasca you have not seen the spirit of Iboga without consuming Iboga the very fact that you mention not being able to tell if its real or not shows me just what experience you have
As I said, it's my experience. Your experience also isn't everyone's experience.
You do know that any mind altering drug is causing damage. It changes your brain chemistry and puts a strain on your internal organs which have to filter it. This is the case whether you feel it's worth it or not.
Why is seeing the spirit of a particular plant critical? And why does being concerned with truth and illusion tell you something (apparently dismissive) of my experiences?
@TheGiantRobot changes your brain chemistry ( thats the whole point is it not?) also your brain chemistry is in constant flux there is no such thing as chemical balance ( if that is what you are referring too)as for your internal organs a big mac everyday is going to do way more damage too you. in my video i explain that there are different kinds of enlightenment, there are different keys for different things, if one wants to encounter the spirit world then psychedelic substances are the key
We'll have to agree to disagree on the degree of damage (though I won't eat big macs either). As for psychedelics being the key - how is it I've experienced that world without them? And many others have reported the same.
@TheGiantRobot what experiences? there are some people that have such experience with out assistance, but its rare and not often repeatable, but i bet if you do experience these things you might be producing higher amounts of DMT than normal, its ironic this discussion because the most powerful psychedelic known is N-DMT and its produced by your Pineal gland, its all about the Tryptamines... the reality is that at the bio-chemical level it IS about the drugs no matter how you are getting there
@TheGiantRobot Buddhist monks when they chant have studied, it shows that they fall into a theta wave state when they do this, this is the dream state, there brains are flooded with massive amounts of DMT ( which is what happens when you dream )
in most cases people need that extra push to get there maybe you are very very lucky...
but in the end its still a "drug" thats getting you there...
That's an interesting theory I haven't heard. To whatever degree it may be true, it reinforces my view of drugs. Drugs damage one's ability to do things naturally. I've always been wary of them for that reason, even beyond the stress they put on your filters.
I may be lucky, but I'm more inclined to believe I made some right choices. I don't think what I've experienced is out of the reach of others, but I also know it isn't easy for most of us - myself included.
@TheGiantRobot like i said i have a shamanic view so these plants are justas natural and doing it naturally can if you choose involve the plants, we evolved side by side with them they have always been part of our world as have we (well at least for the last 200,000 yrs or so) the very birth of human spirituality is very likely the result of the consumption of these plants,check out the neuropsychological theory i think it is called about the origins of the cave art found in Europe and africa
@TheGiantRobot not trying to be dismissive sorry if it came off that way, but the very question of what you experience is real or not, was telling thats all, reality is pretty subjective on or off drugs,if you are an experienced tripper wondering if something is real or not is not an issue you know its real just your brain has been returned to experience reality in a different way,it just seemed to me that you were assuming its NOT real. we all seek different things
I see. Thanks for clarifying that. I don't mean to be dismissive, either.
You're right, reality of this world is perceptive. This is why I say perceive more easily what is real or not. What I generally would mean is how real - how transitory, how true. But in spiritual matters, I'm more thinking about real beyond perception. Maybe this is something you haven't experienced yet, I don't know. But I know that in an altered state, it's harder to tell what's happening.
@TheGiantRobot beyond perception? i think i know what you mean, but i tend to think of it more as beyond what you believe your ability to perceive is... i have had some strange Salvia experiences where i was no longer in my physical body on this physical plane ( there were these 3 siren chicks there too with swords?) the key is integrating what you have seen in an altered state in the "real" world, sometimes this can take time, this is part of the process
Pretty wild stuff. I hear that and wonder if the sirens were real or symbolic.
As for what experiences I've had - that's a big topic. Things like seeing into people. Seeing spirits. Leaving my body. More importantly experiencing higher things - yes, beyond perception. Like what people call heaven. Knowing. That's impossible to convey because it's a higher facility than the brain. And, right, you can't control it. It's higher. It happens from surrender.
@TheGiantRobot i think they were real beings i got that impression, but how they actually look i would image is based on my own psychology, it was my first saliva trip and i have not been able to recreated it,as i did not know the concentration of the Saliva but i have tried it more since then and i am only partially slipping into that realm, i will get pure salvinorum at some point and try it, but i usually like to make non concentrated elixirs salvia is a very special and sacred healing plant
@TheGiantRobot i have a shamanic world view so spirits of plants and other things are of particular importance too me, shamanisim is intrinsically tied to the use of psychedelic drugs and always has been, so that is the path i choose, i also point out in the video that even many Non-drug ways for enlightenment have at there root entheogenic drugs at there root Yoga for instance
BTW anyone thinking its a shortcut is crazy, it is a very hard experience for some, probably harder than sitting in a cave. So far it has brought me the most awesome experiences and insights of my life, yet one time it also gave me the ultimate bad trip. I realy enjoy you takeing an alternative to the DMT is produced in your brain when you sleep crap everyone keeps spouting. Will keep an eye open for your future discussions if any.
May I suggest you look at the following two titles on youtube.
2012 resurection (no its not what it sounds like)
The Pharmacratic inquisition (look for the old presentation version)
This might give you some hints on the religious tales, which would appear to be stories to keep hold of secret hints for those able to discern them, for very long periods of time. That being said DMT surely brings me closer to God, or what I perceive to be.
I can tell you from my experience, you don't need drugs. You can have enlightenment without them and there are advantages. For one, no brain damage, nerve damage, or organ damage. For another, you can know more easily if what you experience is real, I would think. It's like anything else in life - if you rush, if you push your body or mind unnaturally, you'll pop into some enhanced state for a short time, but you'll damage your natural abilities.
TheGiantRobot 1 year ago
@TheGiantRobot
obviously i do not agree and all this damage you speak about depends on what your doing, I am obviously talking about entheogens, which cause none of the damage you speak of at least not in any regular amount and i am talking about using these tools properly
phoboskitty 1 year ago
@TheGiantRobot your experience is not all peoples experience and i know for a fact you have not seen Ayahuasca (the spirit) without consumption of Ayahuasca you have not seen the spirit of Iboga without consuming Iboga the very fact that you mention not being able to tell if its real or not shows me just what experience you have
phoboskitty 1 year ago
@phoboskitty
As I said, it's my experience. Your experience also isn't everyone's experience.
You do know that any mind altering drug is causing damage. It changes your brain chemistry and puts a strain on your internal organs which have to filter it. This is the case whether you feel it's worth it or not.
Why is seeing the spirit of a particular plant critical? And why does being concerned with truth and illusion tell you something (apparently dismissive) of my experiences?
TheGiantRobot 1 year ago
@TheGiantRobot changes your brain chemistry ( thats the whole point is it not?) also your brain chemistry is in constant flux there is no such thing as chemical balance ( if that is what you are referring too)as for your internal organs a big mac everyday is going to do way more damage too you. in my video i explain that there are different kinds of enlightenment, there are different keys for different things, if one wants to encounter the spirit world then psychedelic substances are the key
phoboskitty 1 year ago
@phoboskitty
We'll have to agree to disagree on the degree of damage (though I won't eat big macs either). As for psychedelics being the key - how is it I've experienced that world without them? And many others have reported the same.
TheGiantRobot 1 year ago
@TheGiantRobot what experiences? there are some people that have such experience with out assistance, but its rare and not often repeatable, but i bet if you do experience these things you might be producing higher amounts of DMT than normal, its ironic this discussion because the most powerful psychedelic known is N-DMT and its produced by your Pineal gland, its all about the Tryptamines... the reality is that at the bio-chemical level it IS about the drugs no matter how you are getting there
phoboskitty 1 year ago
@TheGiantRobot Buddhist monks when they chant have studied, it shows that they fall into a theta wave state when they do this, this is the dream state, there brains are flooded with massive amounts of DMT ( which is what happens when you dream )
in most cases people need that extra push to get there maybe you are very very lucky...
but in the end its still a "drug" thats getting you there...
but i know that not what you mean...
LOL
phoboskitty 1 year ago
@phoboskitty
That's an interesting theory I haven't heard. To whatever degree it may be true, it reinforces my view of drugs. Drugs damage one's ability to do things naturally. I've always been wary of them for that reason, even beyond the stress they put on your filters.
I may be lucky, but I'm more inclined to believe I made some right choices. I don't think what I've experienced is out of the reach of others, but I also know it isn't easy for most of us - myself included.
TheGiantRobot 1 year ago
@TheGiantRobot like i said i have a shamanic view so these plants are justas natural and doing it naturally can if you choose involve the plants, we evolved side by side with them they have always been part of our world as have we (well at least for the last 200,000 yrs or so) the very birth of human spirituality is very likely the result of the consumption of these plants,check out the neuropsychological theory i think it is called about the origins of the cave art found in Europe and africa
phoboskitty 1 year ago
@TheGiantRobot not trying to be dismissive sorry if it came off that way, but the very question of what you experience is real or not, was telling thats all, reality is pretty subjective on or off drugs,if you are an experienced tripper wondering if something is real or not is not an issue you know its real just your brain has been returned to experience reality in a different way,it just seemed to me that you were assuming its NOT real. we all seek different things
phoboskitty 1 year ago
@phoboskitty
I see. Thanks for clarifying that. I don't mean to be dismissive, either.
You're right, reality of this world is perceptive. This is why I say perceive more easily what is real or not. What I generally would mean is how real - how transitory, how true. But in spiritual matters, I'm more thinking about real beyond perception. Maybe this is something you haven't experienced yet, I don't know. But I know that in an altered state, it's harder to tell what's happening.
TheGiantRobot 1 year ago
@TheGiantRobot beyond perception? i think i know what you mean, but i tend to think of it more as beyond what you believe your ability to perceive is... i have had some strange Salvia experiences where i was no longer in my physical body on this physical plane ( there were these 3 siren chicks there too with swords?) the key is integrating what you have seen in an altered state in the "real" world, sometimes this can take time, this is part of the process
phoboskitty 1 year ago
@phoboskitty
Pretty wild stuff. I hear that and wonder if the sirens were real or symbolic.
As for what experiences I've had - that's a big topic. Things like seeing into people. Seeing spirits. Leaving my body. More importantly experiencing higher things - yes, beyond perception. Like what people call heaven. Knowing. That's impossible to convey because it's a higher facility than the brain. And, right, you can't control it. It's higher. It happens from surrender.
TheGiantRobot 1 year ago
@TheGiantRobot i think they were real beings i got that impression, but how they actually look i would image is based on my own psychology, it was my first saliva trip and i have not been able to recreated it,as i did not know the concentration of the Saliva but i have tried it more since then and i am only partially slipping into that realm, i will get pure salvinorum at some point and try it, but i usually like to make non concentrated elixirs salvia is a very special and sacred healing plant
phoboskitty 1 year ago
@TheGiantRobot i have a shamanic world view so spirits of plants and other things are of particular importance too me, shamanisim is intrinsically tied to the use of psychedelic drugs and always has been, so that is the path i choose, i also point out in the video that even many Non-drug ways for enlightenment have at there root entheogenic drugs at there root Yoga for instance
phoboskitty 1 year ago
BTW anyone thinking its a shortcut is crazy, it is a very hard experience for some, probably harder than sitting in a cave. So far it has brought me the most awesome experiences and insights of my life, yet one time it also gave me the ultimate bad trip. I realy enjoy you takeing an alternative to the DMT is produced in your brain when you sleep crap everyone keeps spouting. Will keep an eye open for your future discussions if any.
poepflater 1 year ago
May I suggest you look at the following two titles on youtube.
2012 resurection (no its not what it sounds like)
The Pharmacratic inquisition (look for the old presentation version)
This might give you some hints on the religious tales, which would appear to be stories to keep hold of secret hints for those able to discern them, for very long periods of time. That being said DMT surely brings me closer to God, or what I perceive to be.
poepflater 1 year ago