Wrestling Roundtable #3 12/23/07 Part 2 : Can Foreigners Get Over In America?

[kiddynamo41]

I think with foreign guys the look is alot of it. Like Del Rio, a legit Mexican from Mexico as opposed to Rey Rey who's from California. He's tall, has a great build and charisma, he can't help but push him. all the way to the title, though i think he should have had a longer run. But if say Ultimo Guerrero came in he wouldn't get nearly the push. he's shorter, not as cut, he's not WWE looking enough. Look matters more than nationality.

[TheManiacOnWheelsUSA]

Michael Jackson a novelty?? Don't think so!

[fagbert]

I love Lawrence's input, but man could he get testy in these early episodes. Why the rage!??!?! :P

[TheXYZcrash]

Im hoping Sin Cara gets a descent push. its all about style and your aproach, if your lucha, puro or british your expected to make a style change to fit wwe style, it doesnt mean u cant still base your ring work on that style like tajiri or mysterio did

[rsinghny]

How about the Great Khali? He is a legitimate main eventer, and they don't come more foreign than him :-)

[teracall]

This whole question of whether or not an immigrant can get over well in the U.S goes far beyond wrestling, it crosses into political territory. Think of it, as a whole Americans have never had the greatest relationships with foreign things or things that we perceive as foreign. And with all the issues we've dealt with in the past 10 to 20 years it's gotten even worse.

With the great illegal immigration debate, the September eleventh attacks, and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[kiddynamo41]

@teracall mmm, i'm not sure how valid that is. I mean on some level sure, but i think that's regional too. For instance being from texas lucha libre is huge here. And with a big military presence a lot of GI's marry foreign so there's a large asian presence here too and cultural influence. I think maybe in other areas there's more ill will, but i think politically, as with US politics, it's region to region. The average person doesn't carry that same aversion. At least i don't think so.

[bikerboygeoff]

Well now you have Sheamus and Drew McIntyre who seem to be getting a push. Would just love to see an angle where the two had a match against each other. Sheamus and Drew had some great matches against each other in IWW.

Also think Paul Burchill could get over in a promotion that would let him do all of the moves that he is capable of doing rather than restricting him like WWE did.

[NostalgiaWrestling]

I think American culture and WWE's machine of molding people plays a big part, Americans are very patriotic and like things from their own country, Raven insulted a local football team in England and everyone laughed. Saying that the British Bulldog was super over in the mid 90's. Do you think he could have carried a further push up to the main event?

[elc1960]

That remark the guy made about Vince looking out the window seeing his gardeners has to be true. The Mexicools were as racist a gimmick as Saba Simba. I liked that you guys remember the "dream match" between Bruno and Pedro - no one else seems to. I most certainly can accept foreign wrestlers in main event spots in pro wrestling.

[CaitiffFTW]

How many WWE fans are actually Straight Edge? Well, I don't know about too many people, but I am, in fact, Straight Edge.

[JMBitchboy]

Unfortunately WWE doesn't think black people are marketable despite the obvious fan reaction. Only The Rock has been a prominent black world champion because every legendary African American wrestler has been a mid-carder at best. People like R-Truth and Shelton Benjamin have had meteoric rises but never made it past the mid-card level despite their in-ring ability and talent in ctting promos. WWE should make them main-eventers because they get even bigger pops than John Cena!

[dxtmnt]

the problem is the wwe only pushes stars they think the fans wanna see. Ripped white boy John Cena is the star because thats what fans "wanna" see. Fans will get behind tiny asian Kenta because he has the talent. Talent is the key factor not race. WWE management is the problem with guys not getting over not the country someone is born in

[Gambit455]

Great Khali was World champ a few years back and he is from India. He's over to a certain degree, they just don't use him right.

[Gustavo11pr]

WWE can start to immitate MMA in this area. Take for example Fedor Emeleanenko and Anderson Silva. They don't even speak English, and yet they are the favorite attractions for PPV sales and Marketing for the American fans.

[dreadmaster9]

who the hell cares if foreigners are champions the real issue is the talent they put over and sheamus is very untalented

[BloodwolfAssassin]

Thank god we now have a foreign champion in Sheamus,

Vince, please don't fuck this up

[RWright2006]

too late

[theinfamouscamXXII]

"It's like Vince looked out his window and saw a couple of guys cutting his lawn and was like, "err, this would be a great gimmick!'" LOL!

[buffbeenstuffed]

the thing is with the way they are presented it hurts them from truly getting over. I think with mcguiness signing with the wwe they need to let him be what he is now. i also think the wwe should look at the way the ufc handled michael bisping he is accepted by american fans and is huge in europe and the uk and is somewhat of a steady draw for his uk shows and europe shows. i hope this is the role they give Nigel

[buffbeenstuffed]

with nigel mcguiness going to the wwe this is an interesting debate. i think they could get over depending on how the wwe wants to market them. coming from the uk i can say it has been hard for us uk fans to attach ourselves to the current crop of british talent in the uk because of how they are presented. william regal is somewhat over and a good heel but still plays into a sterotype so no one can warm to him. Burchill has flopped and lewington is just blah.

[logan48227]

Foreign wrestlers can't get over in America because we've been conditioned to want guys who cut promos to get over.

When a guy can't speak English, it separates the fans from this person. Not that its right, but its what the fans are conditioned to expect. Look at SCSA, The Rock, & even HHH. Their first ground-breaking exposure to fans was promos, not their ring work.

Since WWE is still promoting this stupid idea that mic work comes first, the fans won't accept anything else.

[pimpmyshoe]

please keep churning these out and DON'T STOP!! Because they are maginificent.

One foreign wrestler in which i feel could have had a very successful run, if booked right, was Hakushi, who appeared on american tv with wwf briefly in 96', he had a good gimmick, which wasn't too stereotypical, and brought some japanese style which i felt got him over quickly. Before they booked him to lose to Barry Horowitz...and he left quickly after.

[mrdudeious]

also wrestling shows in other countrys! they may have big matches for a title say the wwe championship ! u know it aint gonna change hands !

u may get a tag champ change or a usa or a IC but that would prob only change hands if the winner is from the other country!!

[mrdudeious]

mike awesome vs masato tanaka ?

they had good matches in ECW

masato is F'N brilliant!!

[Guest1001]

Oh yeah, and I'm puzzled as to why Eric Santamaria pushed to make it more about being white and English-speaking, when this was about foreigners specifically. Especially after many English-speaking Mexican wrestlers were mentioned as being stereotypes. What about Regal? Sure, white and English speaking but foreign AND a stereotype. All he needs is a bowler hat and some fish and chips and the cliché is complete. There's a certain amount of crossover and overlap that wasn't discussed here.

[Guest1001]

13:38

"Please inform countries like Europe . . ."

[facepalm]

[WrestlingRoundtable]

I actually said, "In foreign countries like Europe," but that doesn't make me less wrong, heh. I meant to say 'areas' or 'territories' which was the idea WWE had at the time that didn't come to fruition, but man do I feel stupid now, heh. Even more so because I HATE when people say stuff like that! And just before that I called him El Hijo De Santo when it's El Hijo Del Santo I believe, so please excuse me losing my brain for a minute

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[Figgalicious]

I think the reason why some foreign talent cannot get over in the United States is booking. TNA seems more likely to push a Japanese wrestler or Spanish wrestler than WWE but it isn't happening yet...

Sabu is an example of an American of Indian descent that was pushed as a foreigner and got over because Paul Heyman gave him the chance to shine and he made it happen. He won American audiences over with an innovative and groundbreaking style even though he portrayed a foreigner. It can be done...

[sfields425]

I agree that it all comes down to booking. Wrestling promotions can get almost anyone over if they are pushed correctly. Think of the biggest draws in wrestling history( Austin, Hogan, Rock, Goldberg) all though talented in their own special ways are not the greatest wrestlers but all got super over and drew a lot of money. If you run with someone while they are hot you can potential create a big draw, but WWE doesn't do that. They push who they want and not who the fans want.

[Bossdog05]

Foreigners can get over, the problem is that companies like WWE and TNA don't want to put them over. Hell, they don't even want to put blacks over. Look at Shelton for example, the man was getting mad pops back in 04 and 05 but what happen? The WWE put a hault to all that because they didn't want him to outshine Cena or HHH! Shelton had a chance to be WWE's biggest star today. Look at R-Truth, he was one of TNA's best, he goes to WWE and not being used right to keep the white boys at the top.

[Bossdog05]

Not trying to make this about race, but WWE and TNA needs to give everyone a chance at least to be successful in their business. Shelton has character, Paul Heyman made him a star over night like he did with many ethnic stars in ECW! Personally Shelton should be the one in the main event fueding for titles. Tajri was one of the best heels in ECW and they made him look like a punk in WWE. People do want something new! That's a constant thing in business.

[aspey99]

I see no way that Morishima would fail to get over, given a good manager and made to look powerful

american fans can accept foreign wrestlers ie. Great Muta in the NWA

i just dont see WWE doing it, TNA could but they would ruin it in some way and gimmick them like you say, but in an ideal world american fans would accept it, imagine Samoa Joe vs Morishima that would be an incredibly unique match that many American fans would never have seen before

[violator198666]

morishima is a hell of alot better than cena or anyone else i have seen on american tv.

[SoulOfRuby]

Have you seen AJ, Joe, or Daniels? o_O

[violator198666]

yes i've seen the spot monkey AJ

yes i've seen the new umaga ripoff Joe

And Daniels is a god, but he honed his skills in japan so it really doesn't count.

[GIWrestlingTube]

Are you guys sponsered by Youtube?

[TheForgottenFlesh]

The answer to the question is no. Vince just won't let it happen.

[hfhghjhbjhjhhh]

thoughts on funaki in the ring

[RandomMindz]

Ameircan fans, whether they are stupid, smart, young, old, male, or female. Will go for any wrestler they want: foreign, out of state, home state, or home town hero!

The problem here is that the WWE are taking advantage of all the superstar's back ground and making gimmicks that are most of the time stereotypical.

Ten to one the WWE has no intention in giving foreign wrestlers a world tite....unless of course GREAT KHALI.

And yeah, Lashley a thug?? Look at Cryme Tyme!!

[RandomMindz]

different brands around the world? With the shit they are doing in america? 2 numbers and 3 words

15 minutes of fame!!

Can you imagine if the WWE becomes the next NWA???

[RandomMindz]

9:56

not for nothing, but for awhile now, especially since Bret Hart, Canadian wrestlers (and Y2J who was raised in Canada) had better chances than even a European wrestler to get over in the WWE.

[hfhghjhbjhjhhh]

don't u think tajiri was actually talented in the ring?

[RandomMindz]

Tajiri in my opinion, was worthwhile to watch. I mean, he was practically the top 5 in the WWE Cruiserweight division. He wasn't ALL great, but he was still fun to watch. I love the Poison Mist! Tajiri had basic talent, but it is not all bad.

[WrestlingRoundtable]

To an extent. I just never got in to him like everyone else seemed to. I didn't see him as anything special that I hadn't seen before, really. He didn't suck, that's for sure, just not my thing. That being said, he should definitely have been pushed a hell of a lot better and harder than he did in WWE

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[RandomMindz]

Oo honestly in terms of "push" I just can't see him as a world champion. I.C. champion...hell yeah!

[WrestlingRoundtable]

Yeah, I don't mean to say he'd be world champ or anything - though I'm open minded and certainly wouldn't NOT consider it period, I probably would just rule against it, heh - but he definitely could have made them a lot more money and been a bigger star like you said on an IC level. Of course, that's us being silly and holding on to the idea that the IC should mean something, an idea they threw away years ago, heh

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[RandomMindz]

He'd make a Great ROH world champion though...

[RandomMindz]

"IC should mean something, an idea they threw away years ago?"

Honestly, I feel that since late last year the IC title lost value. I don't remember a lousy I.C. champions recently, just lousy matches! I mean, never in my life would I see a wrestler SQUASHED for a championship!! Glad it is Regal to be the first to do it though. But it's bullshit that the last 2 I.C. matches were <5 minutes long!! You know, I am surprised Shelton has held on the U.S. title this long...I WISH he wins MITB.

[RandomMindz]

when I said wish, I mean I lost all hope of the WWE making the right moves!

[Geraldon1]

randommindz, i realise this is a free forum and i admire your enthusiasm for the subject, but what is possessing you to post almost hundreds of comments on each video?

[Geraldon1]

i giggled when laurence called ROH a very small promotion at like 10.24 mark, then being like "oh shit sorry Eric" lol

[WrestlingRoundtable]

Yeah, I didn't get that. As if it's not true or something? heh

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[EdmondSwitch]

I agree with chris harris Just get them a good mouth piece

[EdmondSwitch]

Sorry i haven't watched in a while how have you guys been doing?

[WrestlingRoundtable]

Busy! Doing the website, re-editing the old shows, and then there's the whole other thing of having a life, heh. Hard to balance everything but I'm trying!

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[actionfigures95]

on EVERY American wrestling show, I find myself explaining stupidity like "why are they coming out in lawn mowers" ... Golddust, Doink, Adrian Adonis.. etc. now I just tell people "Don't think about it so so much" it "Wrestling... (sigh)

[3Aramis]

what about LAX they are way over in TNA

[WrestlingRoundtable]

They're not exactly foreigners, heh. Hernandez is from Texas & Homicide's from Brooklyn :) But anyway, yes, and they're over with me too as I'm a big fan, but yet another case of TNA not pushing them hard enough when they could have. Hell, remember when they - for whatever reason! - tried stripping them of the belts on PPV and they crowd shit on it so bad they reversed the decision the next day at TV? heh, big duh there.

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[rtenny7]

It was a lot of good points..

But Foreign wrestlers can get over as long as they get the needed push..

As long as they are not molded into a stereotype.For Example ..Umaga,Mexicools,Kofi Kingston,Wang Yang.

But Latino Heat,La Resistance,Steven Regal and Carlito(pre-face turn) were good "foreign" personnas.

[RandomMindz]

Wang Yang doesn't count

neither does Cena because both of them are pretty much taking gimmicks from other ethnic groups. I mean, since when the south's dominated with asian cowboys???

[WrestlingRoundtable]

As far as Jimmy Wang Yang goes, it's supposed to be a joke. It's not a good one, but it's not supposed to be taken seriously. I don't really need to explain that, do I?

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[RandomMindz]

I would love an explaination why that guy, who is fairly talented, and Shannon Moore, who was his tag partner, didn't get the tag team titles?

Then again, that's something my twin brother would ask. Believe it or not, but he was a fan of Shannon Moore. He likes underdogs *shrugs*

[WrestlingRoundtable]

Come on, every single one of those 'good' personnas you listed are stereotypes too, and only Eddie ever was crowned champion. That being said, the real point was not just being a 'good' character or what not, but really making it to the top spot in the company, and only Eddie was ever allowed to get there, probably because he got himself SO over they had no choice but to do it, heh. Plus it was a good 'story'

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[Amarksyhk]

Im American and I love the Japanese strong-style of wrestling and like all kinds of wrestlers; Canadian, Mexican, Japanese, Samoan etc. as long as they are a good talent (not a John Cena Batista or JBL) Im jus fine wth em

[WrestlingRoundtable]

That's good to know

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[Bossdog05]

Of all wrestling companies, WWE gots to be the most racists of them all. Nowadays, you hardly see any foreigners nor other races of wrestlers getting any kind of push. What will happen when Shelton lose the US title? He's probably going to disappear for a while. Look at Wang, caught with drugs and has been jobbing like crazy. D'lo is very talented, was brought back only for WWE to screw him over and now he's fired. I really want to see different races of people make it to the top not just one.

[RoderickStrong]

The problem with the WWE is that the fans (at least the casuals) are kind of pre-trained to watch a certain type of wrestler, which is why Ultimo Dragon failed to get over with the WWE marks (well, that and the fact that a lot of the fans that were under 25 never even knew who the guy was) Shame.

[RandomMindz]

I never knew who Ultimo Dragon was, and I expected him to be a second rey mysterio, which would've been awesome! So I wonder.. What happened?

[RoderickStrong]

To add to a point I said last week: How many black world champs have TNA had? Last time I checked, the only guy they had was Ron Killings. It's not the WWE that's racist/prejudiced. That's my point. It's the American wrestling business as a whole.

[RandomMindz]

Yeah, but at least WCW had a black tag team that won the championship 10 times, and they were the first buisness to have a world champion right before WWF/E and ECW

[RoderickStrong]

Chris Harris? Braden Walker, you've lost weight, LOL

[TheoUnit798]

Talking of stiff workers, my fav wrestlers these days are guys like Yuji Nagata, Shinsuke Nakamura, Nigel McGuinness, Bryan Danielson and Morishima. I also like the little guys like Low Ki, Marufuji, KENTA and obviously Ricky Marvin because he's just amazing to watch.

[RoderickStrong]

I like Milano Collection AT and CIMA

[TheoUnit798]

I don't really watch WWE anymore though because I prefer watching ROH (Not just because Nigel is champ.)I've always liked the technical side and the stiff side eventhough they're pretty different. My favs are guys like Misawa, Gordy (Alot stiffer in Japan), Hansen, Brody, Kawada, Tsruta, Vader, Hashimoto and Dynamite Kid. I also like watching guys like Race, Jack brisco, Ray Stevens and Buddy Rogers.

[TheoUnit798]

I hope to see a British wrestler make it because I'm biased, but I saw Billy Robinson not winning the AWA title as a huge snub, maybe he should've just paid for the title like All Japan did for Jumbo, and the way Otto Wanz paid Verne Gagne to wear the title. I also saw British Bulldog not holding the title or at least winning the IC title a few more times as big snubs, along with Americans like Dibiase and Mr. Perfect who should've both held the title, eventhough Perfect got injured.

[TheoUnit798]

I think its a myth that TNA use their international talent well. For Instance recently they signed possibly the biggest prospect in Japan Hiroshi Tanahashi, but all he's doing is working mid card, this is a 2 time IWGP champion. He's already packed his bags to go work in Japan full-time again, and is fighting Japanese legend Keiji Mutoh (Great Muta) for the title. We usually see some good prospects in the X Cup, but not many of them actually sign for TNA.

[RantNRavinFection]

this is one of the best roundtable shoots ever. i love the quote about bret hart.

i touched on this subject a little bit in one of my videos called "Racially Mixed Wrestlers".

I personally think the suits who own the WWE

including Vince just don't want to push non-American wrestlers. Batista is half Filipino half Greek, and as a Filipino myself, I see him as an American dude.

[WrestlingRoundtable]

He's juiced out of his skin, though, and that counts more than what color it is, heh. That's why Lashley got closer to a true main event spot than any (100%) black wrestler since Ahmed Johnson, who himself was also particularly muscular. Basically it seems to be the rule that if you're a freak of some kind(Mark Henry, Big Daddy V, Khali), that takes precedent in terms of whether you get pushed or not more than race, though I think race plays a factor, at least subconsciously if nothing else

-E

[Bigknuxred]

I love this video I mean look at Cryme Tyme they have a SHIT load of Charisma and are Highly over with the crowd yet they cant even become tag team champs. Black man does great moves and is good on the mike cant become champion but can get squashed from one mistake "MVP, Shelton Benjamin" but a White guy that acts black who has about six moves can become Champion instantly on several occasions "John Cena"

[RandomMindz]

Don't forget! R-truth won a world title in the NWA/TNA, has the same gimmick as Cena, is over like crazy, and has great in ring skills!

He gets brought over from TNA because, well, Tna has no other plans for him, and is treated by the WWE like a low card superstar.

And everyone thinks the WWE's great with these white american jackoffs?

In the words of George Carlin "Now that's called being STUNNINGLY, STUNNINGLY FULL OF SHIT!"

[Bigknuxred]

I Agree if he gets over to much they will bury him and turn him heel so he will lose his fanbase like they did to Shelton. Kofi Kingston is Next? Mark my words watch this shit they already Got Shelton and MVP they are working on R-Truth and Kofi now. You notice how every time Kofi and Cm punk lose a tag match its ALWAYS Kofi that gets pinned "lol" thats fucked up.

[RantNRavinFection]

It's kind of messed up that to this day, WCW had two legit, celebrated black champions in Booker T and Ron Simmons, yet WWE has never had a full black champion. The Rock is half, don't get it confused people. Mixeds are a different story.

[WrestlingRoundtable]

Even if you count The Rock, and for the sake of being nice in this scenario we will ;), he never got a 'moment' like either Simmons or Booker. How is it that with the record for most WWE titles at 7, and being one of the most over and biggest stars ever, he never won it on his own, on the biggest stage, as a babyface? That's pretty sad, though I'm sure he doesn't care that much either, heh.

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[RandomMindz]

*thinking* FUCK he didn't win one fair and square!! *sigh* another slap in the face by the WWE and I didn't see that one comming

[ecwecwecw1]

nice DDP bang

[ringskirts]

What is with the distortion? Is this your crack at "getting the F out?" If so i agree. So anoying to the eye. Might as well go the extra mile and edit random arena themes over your intro and sensor your words.

[WrestlingRoundtable]

haha, this isn't quite WWE 24/7, so I'm sorry it's annoying to your eyes, but I hope it doesn't take away from the point of the videos, which is the conversation

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[ringskirts]

Haha. NO Mr. S. It's not that distracting. Just wondering if there was a reason for it or if you were just engaging in a briliant parody.

[WrestlingRoundtable]

haha, I literally lol'ed! It wasn't intended to be a brilliant parody, it just worked out that way, heh. Believe me, I didn't intend to give myself THIS much work! But I'm glad it's not taking away from you enjoying the shows.

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[ebbowman]

This is a good topic....at first I would've automatically said no (unless it was an ROH, indy or original ECW-type promotion) but Chris is right when he said it comes down to booking. Unfortunately I feel WWE always booked most of the Japanese talent poorly.

[RandomMindz]

the WWE always booked wrestlers who are not caucasian/european/white, 6'0, and american born poorly!

If anyone find this comment racial and prejudice, answer this: how many extremely talented non-white/non american wrestlers ever got a great push? and how many undertalented whites DID get a dramatic push?

[RoderickStrong]

Funny, because Edge is Canadian born, and I hardly consider him being booked poorly

[RandomMindz]

which Canadian wasn't?

But it's all about hiring Caucasian Americans who are 6'0 230+lbs. 90% of those guys sux in the WWE, and yet they get a push because they are nothing but pretty boys, and the best wrestlers are ethnic groups/ non American.

William Regal may be white, but no American do not mind dissing the British wrestlers

Canada got away with it because of the Montreal Screwjob incident

[WrestlingRoundtable]

The Screwjob's got nothing to do with it. I think it's basically because Canada is hardly foreign 'enough.' They're right next door, white, speak English, it's practically the same thing.

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[RandomMindz]

that true....

but still...suppose the Screwjob never happened....

then again if it didn't happen, Canadian wrestlers would had a big time chance....

sorry I was gonna say something opposite, but I forgot Bret Hart was screwed over for the title. If he wasn't and had he won...yeah canadians would've had a chance. Nevermind....

but we can all agree. If you are white, speak english, 6'0 220+ you can make it in the WWE

If you are even euro, you're underqualified!

[shitskater]

i love your show and you speak so much sense and i will agree with rodney, bret is the best

[WrestlingRoundtable]

Thank you very much

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[Bigknuxred]

The wwe is rascist.. Shelton will be wwe champ in 15 yrs

[wwetnasux]

How are they racist? They've had black champs before. Cough The Rock cough

[Bigknuxred]

hahaha the ROCK...."lol"...."LMAO!" The wwe is rascist Shelton will be chamopion in 15 years Shelton is my all time favorite wrestler. as for your comment about the rock....well im still laughing.

[RandomMindz]

dude, I don't blame you!

If they are going to give a world title to jackoff Randy Orton, they should give it to Shelton Benjamin!

[RandomMindz]

Okeeeyy let's run down the list

Mark Henry: ECW champion (but the title's not an actual world title) and it took him YEARS to get it, and the way he wrestled then was just as the same as today.

Shelton Benjamin: well...you know..

Booker T: World Champion, but had to play the bad guy to get it, AND it also took him awhile to get it, which, in my opinion, is unfair.

Cryme Tyme: How many tag teams wrestle their style? NONE and yet Cryme Tyme haven't won the tag team titles!!

[Bigknuxred]

EXACTLY! the wwe is makin me sick right now. Shelton should have been WWE Champion ages ago and Cryme Tyme will never be Champs dispite their completelly unique in-ring style.

[wwetnasux]

I never said the Rock was a great wrestler, I said he was black, LOL

[Bigknuxred]

"lol".....you still dont get it its not about his The Rocks skills man.."lol".."LMAO"

[RandomMindz]

Yeah,yeah, and half samoan don't forget. But that's not the point. As I said before, how many african wrestlers (and other ethnic groups) who were extremely talented DID NOT get a push, and how many crappy crackers did get a push? A LOT!! The WWE only has in total 3 african americans who won the major titles (2 won the officially recognized world titles) in its company history! African superstars in WWE today are the most underrated in the entire roster!!

[wwetnasux]

Funny, because that's two more black champions than Japanese world champions in the WWF/E

[Bigknuxred]

I also agree with you Im not just for my black superstars im for all superstars....Tajiri was my favorite wredtler before Shelton and they screwed the hell out of Tajiri that guy had mad skills and they always kept him at the mid card level Look at Rey Mysterio and and Evan Bourne......how long do you think it will take the WWE to put EVan ahead of Rey? not to long he is getting a made push the only set back is that hes injured.

[RandomMindz]

no offense, but I am looking forward for Evan to get a push! He deserves it! As for Rey, he already became World Champion!! I hate to say this but it's only a matter of time before he's released. And the WWE are using him in bullshit matches nowadays anyways!! At least if Rey's ever released, he will go out as a former world champion! At least he won a prestigious title! Unlike Lashley who won the fuckin ECW title!! I thought it was agood thing until the whole damn show turned outto be a joke!!

[Bigknuxred]

Thats true I love Evan He will get big...but down the line YOU KNOW how the wwe is look how they did CM Punk. They will prbably squash Evan. the WWE is fucked up that way. asfar as BOBBY LAshley goes. of course they gave him the ECW championship. they will never give him the top two belts as a Black FACE character. its impossible. the only reason Mark Henry got the ECW championship was to shut his mouth about the Hayes incident backstage. they just released Boogeyman to. DAMB U WWE

[RandomMindz]

two black champions who played as heels! Ten to one if a Japanese won the world title, he'd probably be a face!!

And not for nothing, but consider this what's worse? Not getting a title in an American company EVEN if you are an american, or not getting a title because you are NOT American? At least for the latter you can go back to your home country. And don't give me black guy can go to africa!! It's like a white guy going to europe!! Prejudice against foreign wrestlers by company boss!

[wwetnasux]

Plus, what about WCW? The last time I checked only 2 black men held their top title as well: Booker T and Ron Simmons

[WrestlingRoundtable]

Ok, about WCW : "Only" two black champions is still better than WWE's record for their own title, heh. If we count The Rock, fine, that's one black champion. BUT, the key difference here is the way that Simmons & Booker won it. The Rock never, ever won a title on his own. Screwjobs(first 2), interference(next 2), not pinning the champion in a goof match(2 more), & maybe one actual win(NWO 01), whereas they won it, on their own, looking strong. Rock never looked as good as he should have imo

-E

[helpmedie91111]

hello fellow creeps

[jblive1985]

erics face wow when he says brands its so funny

[WrestlingRoundtable]

heh, thanks. Just showing how I feel about their words & terms they drill in to people's heads.

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[RandomMindz]

Brand split was the biggest mistake since day one! Even when I SAW this I KNEW it wouldn't work out!!! I mean, the concept sounds good. But as a guy who never had cable that's pretty damn unfair!!

[roh1234]

I agree, wwe love there whiteboys

[WrestlingRoundtable]

That's funny, heh

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[roh1234]

lol

[RandomMindz]

OO wow I kinda expected ME to say that!!

[roh1234]

Do you have to reply to everything i say?

[RandomMindz]

Sorry, you make interesting statements worth replying to. Some we don't agree on, but still worth replying to. If you want me to stop, I'll do so! I didn't realize I was such an annoying acquaintance

[roh1234]

Lol, i thought you just chose my comments all the time. Fair enough.

[Amr3561]

This is a pretty good discussion. I do wonder if R-Truth was white and doing the exact same thing, would the WWE think the target audience would buy him as a John Cena type wrestler as far as getting over? How would you explain Jimmy Wang Yang? He is American and English speaking, but he is also of Chinese descent and playing a redneck. If he had good mic skills and charisma, would he have to be an "Asian" stereotype to get over?

[TruStory007]

no b/c cena over b'c of his drive

[codejjm]

i can prove why wwe uses stereo types ask yourself how come cryme tyme can get over as much as they are but shelton and burke cant. now will you agree that there is more of an white audience so they will accept a black wrestler only if he plays the role of a stero typed black guy. and by the way i love white people lol this is not a racist thing

[Amr3561]

I think part of it is because Shelton Benjamin has worse mic skills than Cryme Tyme.  As for Elijah Burke, I wish I knew why creative "had nothing for him".

[getmona]

I agree.I can't believe the writers had nothing for Elijah Burke.I mean hell when Collin Deleaney was on the roster they could've put Burke over him , or put The ECW belt on him other than putting the ECW belt on Chavo Guerrero (who came off of a suspension at the time)

[safik2000]

I agree that Burke should've gotten a push, but Chavo's title reign is a bad example. The sole reason for that reign was to further put over the La Familia stable.

[Cubfan2240]

I agree, there have been many others that have had other non racial gimmicks. Its just whatever Vince happens to give him.

[CadillacL]

WWE/TNA fans are too trained to accept them.

[WrestlingRoundtable]

Then why were Tajiri & Super Crazy so over?

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[jrumpi]

the problem is when any american wrestling company gets a foreign talent they give him the same old stupid gimmick as the terrorist or the anti american it always has to be u.s.a vs where ever he is from .

[RoderickStrong]

Not all American feds. What about ROH?

[WrestlingRoundtable]

ROH has been better to foreign wrestlers than most, definitely, but that's not to say they're immune either. For instance, The Embassy. Don't get me wrong, I love Prince Nana, but Jade Chung, a slave from Vietnam or whatever country they pretended she was from, really? Give me a break. I'm not sure about putting John Walters in a turban either, heh, but I guess I'll the rest of the Embassy slide in the "foreign faction made up of American sympathizer" category, heh. & El Generico is stupid.

-E

[RantNRavinFection]

Not all American promotions will do that but yea, I do see that for the most part, it's USA vs Country X. I remember an episode of Velocity back in the day with Akio (aka Jimmy Yang) who was a pretty neutral character get "USA" chants thrown at him as if being asian guarantees you a "foreign menace" label.

[WrestlingRoundtable]

That's doubly funny because Jimmy Yang's from America! ha, isn't he from Atlanta or something?

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[hitmen1116]

besides the Canadians and Mexican wrestlers, foreign wrestlers will not make a big impact.  kozlov now to me is a bad gimmick.

[WrestlingRoundtable]

Ok, why won't foreign wrestler not make a big impact? Because history has shown they can when they're allowed to or not relegated to bad gimmicks.

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[RandomMindz]

Random thought!

What will happen if a colored (sorry for use of the term) wrestling company is created and the number of white wrestlers is equivlent to the number of black guys in the WWE, whereas other ethnic groups dominate teh roster? Will that stir up trouble, or sell a shit load of tickets?

PS. and when I said colored that means EVERYONE!! Black, Brown, Red, and Yellow. The white are the minority!! Oo kinda like real life huh?

[Bigknuxred]

That will stir up trouble as well. My other favorite wrestler is Kane and I like Evan Bourne and John Morrison as well. If I start seeing shit happen to them thats unfair you best believe I will start BITCHING like I always do. I always do it for Kane he has been treated like SHIT these past few years.

[RandomMindz]

ANY wrestler of ANY background can make an impact!

Its the IDIOT bookers/creative writers/ bosses who will determine IF they can make the impact and HOW will they make the impact!!

Kozlov is just another poor soul sucked in Vince McMahon superheavyweight talent inititative (whatever the hell you spell it!) vince LOVES his heavyweights! That's why I advise light weights to ditch or weigh over 200 lbs!

[Bigknuxred]

EXACTLY! Shelton made a huge Impact when he came to RAW what did they do.......OH hes getting to big the fans were cheering him as much as cena the WWE didn't like that...so what do they do They turn him heel give him a series of dumbass gimicks and then ship him to ECW to get buried and give him the stupid Gold STandard Gimick. Shelton is my fav wrestler. Look at MVP dont make me get started on him. You already seen wahat they did to poor Kofi Kingston, R-Truth ......continued next comment

[Bigknuxred]

Continued: I found out some fucked up shit about R-Truth. When R-Truth comes out he gets HUGE pop however when the actuall show comes on they Censor and lower the amount of cheers so that way the viewers watching think he isn't getting that big of a pop......WHy would they do that?

[Firegod619]

Morishima's not a bad wrestler. Just because I say that, though, doesn't mean I think he's the same level as Misawa or Kobashi.

[mhc12k]

Morishima Doesn't suck

[TruStory007]

in comparison yes

[mhc12k]

In Comparison to what? I love the Backdrop Driver

[WrestlingRoundtable]

Not quite. I wouldn't say he "sucks," but if you've seen one Morishima match, you've more or less seen everything he can do. Very repetitive. Though I will say in his defense, while it went WAY too long, he did have a handful of good ROH title matches here in the states. I've never seen his NOAH stuff so maybe I'm wrong, but from what I've seen of his ROH work, that's my assessment.

-E, Wrestling Roudntable

[mhc12k]

I think he was used well within ROH with all the tiny wrestlers there. I actually wished he dominated more instead of selling for some of his opponents and his move set was impessive for a big man and ROH couldn't come up with their own wrestler as a champion so that must say something. If morashima didn't beat homicide who else? Jimmy Rave, Brent Albright? Roderick? Nigel? he was jobbing to Rave.

The only other choices besides Shima are also from Noah.

[WrestlingRoundtable]

Well, you're asking someone who's pretty biased, heh, because I think Danielson could have, and can, carry that company at anytime. Now, I know he took some time off to heal his shoulder so he couldn't have, but Homicide's reign was way, way, way too short. He should have held it a little longer at least, especially with such a build up, and since Morishima LOST to Samoa Joe the day before. The "tiny wrestlers" made me laugh, though :) & you're right, Morishima sold a little too much

-E

[aaronbluejayfan]

TNA does a better job with international talent

[curtzxz]

THAT SO SO TRUE

[RantNRavinFection]

Yea I really admire TNA with their ability to handle international wrestlers. I remember when Liger came to wrestler against Joe and that was totally hype. The fans knew who Liger was.

[WrestlingRoundtable]

How so? Because I disagree, but I'd like to hear your reasoning

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[RoderickStrong]

Umaga does not speak English at all (gimmick wise), and I think he's hella over, but then again, he did have a mouthpeice in Estrada for a while

[WrestlingRoundtable]

Yes, but I think he'd have been as over even if he didn't have Estrada. People like winners & losers, and since Umaga was built up strong, undefeated, and didn't suck either(imo. I always like Jamal as a wrestler since 02 in the first place), so people did buy him as a threat to Cena's title I think.

-E, Wrestling Roundtable