League of Legends - S2 Jungle Lee Sin

[MrQec]

Why that anyoing background music? -.-

[OkamiSojirou]

@MrQec dat mute button.

[MultiPinkhair]

@MrWickeedd

Stonewall said it was ok to use dorans blade start for jungle in season 1, so I'm pretty sure it's still possible

[MrWickeedd]

what if you start with dorans blade?

[itsfukingreal]

@MrWickeedd well u wanna start with boots for stronger ganks.

[Zockerthomas]

sometimes if i play sin in jungle i lay down on the back and pretend to be a turtle

[rangerassassin]

And*

[rangerassassin]

How much does masteries really matter. An how much do runes matter. I'm level 23 is that hight enough to jungle.

[Drakhar23]

@rangerassassin They both matter A LOT. 23 is enough to jungle.

[rangerassassin]

@Drakhar23 if im only 23 what where should I put my points for masteries. Thanks for the help btw

[Drakhar23]

@rangerassassin I would go 21 offence and 2 defense in armor or reduced creep damage. See what works for you though, if you die often or have troubles clearning camps at the beginning go 9 defense and rest in offence.

[gilowadept]

@rangerassassin you could jungle at level 1, it´ll just be alot harder =), but as Draknar23 said, they do matter =)

[TheArmoredArmadillo]

@rangerassassin I started jungling at 20, it depends on what you use.

I started with mumu, he's non-mastery-reliant, now I jungle with udyr, using a full defensive page.

[rangerassassin]

@TheArmoredArmadillo k thx

[teethpuller200]

<3 ur jungle vids

[genesisSOC]

What masteries exactly?

[Carmelolz]

Do you normally take the first blue or give it to your mid? Is it worth having over your mid early?

[goldsmash9]

@Carmelolz I normally would since you start at golems, red etc. And you have no idea how much blue buff does for a mid. F.e If you have a casseopia mid, giving her blue will give her an incredible adv in lane

[Carmelolz]

@goldsmash9 I was wondering if blue helps Lee Sin be stronger early game enough for it to be an option to take it

[goldsmash9]

@Carmelolz blue doesnt help lee sin much since his passive basically restores energy itself

[M0NK3YNUTSPR0]

I can land all my q's. ALL of them. I also jungle very well, jungled almost every jungling character as well as some whom are not like ezreal. HOWEVER, I CANNOT USE LEE SIN. I CAN JUNGLE WELL WITH LEE SIN BUT I CAN'T GET KILLS FOR SHIT AND ALWAYS END UP FEEDING. PLEASE HELP!!!

[Blubberwagon]

@M0NK3YNUTSPR0 During early game:WARD! Take the opportunity to gank really pushed lanes and/or invade the jungle and beat the hell out of their jungler.

During mid game: Don't be dumb and prance around across the river with no ward coverage. Ward your jungle too, especially if you're missing towers.

Late game: Keep warding. By now you've probably already fed or been fed so that's pretty much taken care of. Team fight smart, don't engage unless you built real tanky.

[rowantree247]

@M0NK3YNUTSPR0 I had the same problem, it bugged the hell out of me. In the end I realized that I was not using him correctly.

My problem was that I was not using his Q correctly to "execute" enemies, because I used it as an initiation. Also, I had some trouble getting used to the delay in using his skills to maximize the potential of his passive.

The thing about lee sin is that he is a high skillcap champion, and learning to use him is just a matter of practice and hard work. Stick with it.

[goldsmash9]

@M0NK3YNUTSPR0 initiate with ure e if they flash use ure q into e. Also take adv of lee sin's dueling capabilities and counter jungle your opponent. Since you have jungled almost every other character you should know their route. For example if they the enemy had a nocturne you can just steal his wraiths and red and golems( if u want) and head out to gank

[M0NK3YNUTSPR0]

@goldsmash9 thats the problem. i dont know how to duel with lee sin and tried once and got raped by nocturne, spell shielded my dragons rage -__-

[iSchneeball]

I dont find Lee a very fast jungler and he kinda needs hot hit an enemy whit Q for an easy gank. So how come he is godtier?

[Gr33n3EU]

@iSchneeball you run in e the enemy and if u miss q then u are braindead. He can beat the most champs on lvl 1-2 in 1vs1 he can gank pretty hard on low lvl and he can jungle fast .. thats why hes godtier

[viktormironov1]

@ stonewall008

What do you think of the new Lee Sin nerf? do you believe this nerf will change your rune build for Lee, possible putting in some AS runes in exchange for the damage because Riot is exactly looking for Lee players to do that. The target to his Q lowers its damage by only 2% so thats not really bad, but the AS nerf on his passive will slow his jungle down. Should Lee Sin players be worried? Not giving a specific percentage of the AS can mean that its not going to be that high.

[stonewall008]

@viktormironov1 I just made a bulletin. It will hurt him but it won't break him.

[MrShadowdSin]

@stonewall008 Do you absolutely need the runes that you put up in the description to complete this route? Or is it just for overall game?

[xStrizkerx]

would it be fine if I do attack dmg x6 and armor pen x3, armor yellow, attack speed blues and quints?

[Di3Ya]

what's a leach?

[Di3Ya]

@Di3Ya sry for being new

[Di3Ya]

@Di3Ya and noob maybe

[Udyr3]

@Di3Ya a leash is when somebody pulls the golem so u wont take any dmg at the start. and it makes it easier for u. to kill it.

[eeg10]

@Udyr3 It doesn't have to be golem. It can be any creeps.

[juikhy]

Can you make a team battle lee sin with the jungle remake please?

[DauntlessMatthew]

Such a fast jungle character. Nice build. 

[PlainOldCrap]

Y trundle so good jungle?

[agyrex]

i find that if u get a strong leash you can start dorans blade then just insta gibbing someone at level 2

[OkamiSojirou]

@agyrex that's what stonewall's Lee Sin does. Doran's or boots is enough to gank. But I still take boots because of the clearing speed. Higher mobility to start ganking and invading..

[SirConnely]

damnit stonewall, i love your music.

[Icame2annoyYou]

Udyr ganked me at my own jungle when i was lee sin once.. gotta say lee sin pretty good duelist considering i fought wolves and a bear :D

[Lhurka]

Hey stonewall!

Would a start with dorans blade still be viable?

[Sl1ce23]

CRYOCORE BRAND F*** YEA!! :D

[LZMieczu]

@stonewall008 Can i take reds and quints as arm pen runes?

[TheIngrge]

@LZMieczu you can but it is noticeably slower I've tried it already

[xacris2105]

@TheUnFailSpy hes a hacker

[ThePLPiotrek]

@stonewall008 with these masteries+runes should be 375 but look at 0:44 when he have less than ~70% hp his ms goes down to 375 so masteries were x/21/x

[kronos92bluewin]

@TheUnFailSpy hidden janna ;o

[Lafergesan]

Can someone pls tell me why everyone take E as first skill to jungle? Obvously W is better as it gives you more survivability in jungle (higher hp all the time?)

[Koreiwa]

@Lafergesan It doesn't give you more survivability.

W is an AoE damage ability, which also lowers enemy attack speed.

It seems logical that E would be better, however it isn't. 30% attack speed reduction vs. 3 targets (wolves/red/blue) or 4 targets at wraiths, means it's better than the level 1 shield.

The main difference though, is the damage it does which results in quicker kill speed and as such reduces the time you're taking damage from the mobs.

Create a game and compare them

[Omgwalrus1]

@Koreiwa you screwed up your W and E breh E=aoe dmg and slow, W=shield and lifesteal/armour

[Koreiwa]

@Omgwalrus1 True enough, thanks for pointing that out. Too much jungling, too little sleep i guess.

[Th3Jos3pH]

@Lafergesan Well, E is faster due to the AoE damage...& when u press E again the jungle creeps will have attack speed debuff for like 4 seconds, which is pretty good to lower the dps u take.

[conewicci]

@TheUnFailSpy he hax'd.

[14sweetwater]

does +25 armor pen and +13 armor works? or is +19 ad and + 6% atk speed, which would you say is best for jungle lee?

[abohnsen19]

@14sweetwater Works if you get leash(es). Or actually it works always with the ArPen

[TherealDarkRevenge]

Hi stonewall008,

can you please do another video for teambattles with lee sin?? i ask because you don't made a video after that jungle changes and lee sin nervs about him except of that one ;)

[yaguuu]

why boots ??

[DeaDSoLVN]

Can you replace this rune with 14% atk speed and 12 armor pen ? I want plan to buy lee, but i don't have attack damage runes yet, so can i jungle him with rune and masteries like yi, nocturne or skarner ?

Sorry for my lame english

[deathfish64]

@DeaDSoLVN Lee Sin is a very strong jungler, so I'm sure that those runes would work. It just wouldn't be ideal, as Lee Sin doesn't benefit as much from attack speed as he does from bonus AD.

[DeaDSoLVN]

@deathfish64 Thank you, maybe i will take full Armp for both mark and quins, maybe AD quins is better but i only got Armp now

[Shinas1996]

would you say get q if you want to gank lvl 2 but get w when you want lvl3?

[Prizmod]

what did you use for blues?

[Firefrogish]

would you consider lifesteal runes? also, is surge viable in place of flash, since he already has such good mobility?

[Zarutoks]

@Firefrogish he commented somewhere saying the lifesteal runes suck, and as for surge, half of it would be a waste since lee sin hardly gets anything for having ability power

[Aidewin]

Used Your Path and Runes 1st game i went 20 9 18, thanks for posting this stonewall!

[Asuryon]

"Traditionally, Lee Sin"

I see what you did there

[InquisitorPrime]

@iAmKeos fail

[ILikePwningNoobs]

@stonewall008 what hes trying to say is that you can't have 386 movement speed on any champion without getting movement speed buffs from abilities / masteries / runes

[mickyvang]

Can I switch the AD Quins for Armor pen?

[MasterMarucho97]

with lee u can start jungle from anywhere blue red wraith and he can jungle with any spell q - high dmg and u can jump to next camp w - shield and lifesteal not need more e - aoe dmg and slow it really help in jungle for items u can take armor and 5 pot , vampire scepter (14% lifesteal) or boots like in the video lifesteal will be good with w and your passive soo lee sin just rulez he's the strongest junglrer evar peace bro

[BananenForEver]

@smashman3 Max q first. Like every Lee Sin. Then what u want: dmg or a stronger shield, but AoE from e helps with jungling. You just max q first for the strong invasion and ganks, for which Lee is actually made.

[smashman3]

So you start ewq or eqw but what do I max first and second. Suggestions please.

[Mujigsuppa]

@stonewall008 It's still 11 ms too much? O.o

[geradcanada]

should i buy skarner or lee sin?

[SheffiTB]

@geradcanada skarner imo

[geradcanada]

@SheffiTB GODDAM SCORPION WINS AGAIN :<

[InquisitorPrime]

@geradcanada the dildo

[Roflcopter1224]

How much of a impact is made by the AD runes, Vs just a standard 14% AS, 12 ARP, 13 Armor, Choice Blue. (AS)

[aaronchoo98]

hey stonewall....is it fine if my blues are cooldown reduction?? the other runes are the same as you have on this vid.

[TheUnFailSpy]

@aaronchoo98 It says choice blue

It's fine, but MR is better for him for ganking and such

[king198]

THIS VIDEO AIN'T MEANT TO BE FOLLOWED : THE MASTERY PAGE SETUP AIN'T 21/9/0! STONEWALL SHOULD FIX THIS

[king198]

@stonewall008 21/9/0 without mouvement speed boots = 375.

[TheMikeys5]

@king198 he probably had movement quints by mistake

[king198]

@TheMikeys5 Nah. He's not 21/9/0 actually. He's 21 defense at least. 386 speed goes down to 375.

[corgad]

@king198 look at his items boots!!

[y0rickp0st]

@stonewall008 what kind of blues do you have, because when i try this route(leashless)(with marks, seals adn quints) i just make red, but need to back immediatly. maybe this is because of the difference in blues.

[TheWiimann]

@iAmKeos If you watch the video his movement drops to 375 when he goes below 70% which means he went down the defensive tree

[MicMacsimum]

What points do u choose in masteries?

[KaiAnteGeia]

Stonewall can you make a jungle lee sin route with dorans blade ?

[jonico87]

stonewall, can u post a screen of your masteries? like u have on your other videos. thanks! :)

[TheAnfest]

Anyone have a decent jungle Sin build while following these runes/masteries?

[MrSniperpwnage]

@TheAnfest i usually take a doran's at the start, then boots and a second dorans if ganking has been good. then i get merc treads, after that i get warmog's and atma's. Then a frozen mallet and trinity force. Last item is up to u, usually the other team is finished by then, but i like to get a gunblade mostly for the lifesteal and spellvamp in conjuncture with his W makes it nearly impossible to die while still wrecking their team

[iAmKeos]

@stonewall008 with boots, you're supposed to have 375

[PezOfTheNextGen]

@iAmKeos With masteries in the utility it gives u +2 % move speed

[EpicLemurz]

Could I take armorpen Quints instead of AD?

[howching]

stonewall you could do red and get level 2 instantaneously. Wraiths aren't really needed.

[abohnsen19]

@howching Read what he writes

[howching]

@abohnsen19 you dont need a leash for red. but another way to get to level 2 with less hp loss but a little slow is wraiths -> golems then gank bot

[abohnsen19]

@howching might aswell do wraiths-> pulled red -> gank. by the time red spawns you have already done wraiths plus instead of getting double golems you get a buff

[XionyZ]

@howching He probably takes wraiths before red for the same reason he takes wolves before blue on other champions. Wraith spawn before red so you have time to take them.

[SMFWonDerBanG3R]

im lvl 15 and i struggle at jungling lawl such a noob :(

[Vojillia]

ive been still using the dorans blade and ganks are usually pretty good in terms of catching enemies but how much of a difference do boots really make vs a dorans if your expecting them to flash in the first place

[themaster4576]

the music makes this so intense

[wtfaccountffs]

blue runes are always "the black sheep"...^ ^

[DanielDKXD]

@FinalTempest it is not viable Becouse you should have enough time to kill 1 camp in the 15 sec between small and buff camps spawns. it is ofc not bad, but the other thing you can do is just better :)

[Lup0os]

Hey Stonewall, which runes you haved used in this video? For Choice Blue i mean for sure.

[martango365]

Is Riven able to do a route like this? I've just been doing the standard wolves-blue start on her..

[Blackt0ast]

jugnle pantheon guide would be awesome

[FinalTempest]

Is taking red at lvl 1 and getting the instant lvl 2 before minions get to top/bot not viable?

[abrakader225]

And where is screen of masteries :( ?

[Saatan1234]

@abrakader225 use his shyvana masteries

[IGoAFilms]

This music sounds very farmiliar...What is it?!

[iKyoryuKukki]

Does Lee Sin need his hand help while he jungles, or can I just clear by myself?

[CROOKEDxACES]

stonewall would u recomend lifesteal runes on lee?

[stonewall008]

@CROOKEDxACES at this point - i wouldn't recommend lifesteal runes on anyone

[ContradictoryLilac]

stonewall, try jungle with regrowth pendant and pot?

[stonewall008]

@ContradictoryLilac why would you want that on lee sin?

[ContradictoryLilac]

@stonewall008 not necessarily on lee sin but just for general since the jungle gold is waaayyy low

[JustLoveSkate]

@stonewall008 S2 Jungle Skarner next please.:)

[king198]

@stonewall008 Warmog?

[yestaday23]

I haven't jungled with lee sin so far this season, but does your doran's blade start still work?

[stonewall008]

@yestaday23 yes

[1Husseini]

@yestaday23 Better than before.

[Zaiga0]

Is getting a mix of attack damage and armor pen better than getting all attack damage runes now?

[iAsian849]

Traditionally Lee Sin...

I c wut u did thar

[DaveTehSinner]

'Traditionally Lee Sin' doesn't ____.. Traditional lee sin background, i see what you did there

[swushi999]

This isn't me trying to be a besserwisser, this is me just honestly asking a question: why armor pen reds instead of attack damage ones? I mean since the E does magic damage.

[Iced1992]

@LoLDomiDeath gl.[dfgd[p?

[asdfme]

Would flat MR or MR per level runes work better on Lee Sin?

[TheJuhJuhJuhJesus]

@asdfme I'd say MR per level, since AP casters normally get other stats before their deathcap early game, otherwise they tend to be even more squishy.

[werderfreak88]

nasus or gragas jungle? :)

[TheGIantR]

Jungle Ashe.

Why? Since last time you said she was the worst jungler i would want to see if that is still the case.

[pinoyupurs]

do no rune jungling

or jungle sona

[Nilotaviano]

Challenge: Jungle Tristana.

Seriously, her ganks would probably be awesome, 60% slow for 2,5secs + red buff.

[psymunn42]

@Nilotaviano zero sustain and what if they just... turn on you when you gank. you'll be pretty slow with low health

[burt8888]

@Nilotaviano one problem, extremely squishy... so a slow jungler, plus bad at ganking higher health champs like garen, just because she can't take much damage.

[Treifla]

@Nilotaviano if i recall, ranged redbuff has a reduced effect over melee redbuff.

not saying she would be bad at ganks, but the general argument of "there are better choices" prevails.

[VendectaSplitter]

@Nilotaviano No farm = no damage for tristana..

[DARKxYAMATO]

lol panth not path

[DARKxYAMATO]

could u do path stonewall? thx

[Methuss87]

Unless you decide to gank starting at red or around it seems kinda wasting red. You can gank without blue but much harder without red. I know you are lee sin and you have a slow but I usually like the dmg the red buff does since after q ur dmg is a bit lackluster.

[BuZZLeR24]

thank you :D

[Leclwrd]

isn't it good to just start at wolves then blue like most people? since blue buff gives energy regen

[FuRaSS]

@Leclwrd if you're looking for a fast gank going red will help with the dot damage and the slow ....

plus lee sin doesn't really need blue at all and the regen from blue buff on energy is passable

[FuRaSS]

Uhhh stonewall...unless i'm doing something different i'm pretty sure you can hit level 2 by just doing red =S

[stonewall008]

@FuRaSS why would you waste 15 seconds waiting for it to spawn?

[LikeCraazy]

@stonewall008 stonewall whats your masteries? and what blues have u tried?

[LikeCraazy]

@stonewall008 what points in the offense and defence tree did u put points in?

[gameguy301]

@LikeCraazy its lee sin so take the obvious stuff, AD, attackspeed, armor pen, creep damage, %damage boost, executioner, he probably got armor and bladed armor and defense, skip the crit as you wont need it, the tree practicaly fills itself.

[TheNendroid]

@FuRaSS This is more efficient because the little golems spawn 13 seconds before red. You have time to kill them before red is actually available.

[Seigge]

im try this, i usually go do wolves then blue, then invade. Granting me a kill most of the time.

[Feliprins]

@Seigge but if u dont get a kill u are screwed

[ExcessiveOrange]

Skarner or Udyr next? :D

[HonourGaming]

Can anyone help me out? I've just started building rune pages for my account. I want a GENERAL Ap Rune page... where anyone from Vlad, to Ryze to LeBlanc can use it. Any suggestions? Thanks.

[robcio150]

@HonourGaming 9 magic pen marks

9 ap per lvl seals

9 ap per lvl glyphs

3 flat ap quints

[HonourGaming]

@robcio150 Hmmmm why ap per lvl? Wouldn't Flat AP or Magic Pen be better?

[robcio150]

@HonourGaming Flat ap sucks, ap per lvl is geting the same as flat ap on lvl 6 and after this is a lot better. Only quints are better flat ap, cuz they are getting better then flat very late in game, and only two points more. Magic pen is good, but only for marks, other mpen runes just suck, and ap gives you more dmg vs squishies.

[HonourGaming]

@robcio150 Flat Ap is better then ap per level know why? Because by level 6 when it evens with flat AP youve probably already lost your lane to someone who has 10-20 more ap then you at start.

[StarRevolution90]

@HonourGaming btw 9 hp per lvl seals are giving you 175~ HP at lvl 18, It's not like gamebreaking but its pretty good IMO.

[Draconic74]

@HonourGaming Unless your champion is dependent on their ultimate or full combo to kill something. For example, Malzahar is better with scaling, because at level 6 he can be almost guaranteed a kill, and he can easily passively farm (and harass) without flat AP runes until level 6. Just my opinion, though. Also, if you are better off scaling into lategame, flat runes aren't worth it.

[robcio150]

@HonourGaming Well, it dont matters. Everyone who isnt idiot can lane vs someone with more ap. Yes, maybe he will have few more last hits, but in late game you will be A LOT stronger then him. Flat ap is for ppl who cant just play more carefull, and engage their opponents. On high elo everyone takes per lvl runes, because they know that early laning is in 90% only lasthitting, and you dont need more ap to do it.

[Bordichimaera]

@HonourGaming well Magicpen reds are always good. Voor ryze and lb prob mana regen yellows (although flat mana prob would work for ryze). prob health/level yellows for vlad (works for ryze and lb as well as more def). flat ap blues for lb and vlad (ryze scales with mana, so maybe mr/lvl for him). and health or flat ap quints

[HonourGaming]

@Bordichimaera I don't really want mana regen/lvl because it wouldnt work with vlad and i already can manage my mana fine withought them. So yeah lol

[StarRevolution90]

@HonourGaming 9 magic pen reds

9 hp per lvl yellows (for vlad)

9 flat ap/ap per lvl blues

1 magic pen quint

2 flat ap quint

[HonourGaming]

@StarRevolution90 Hmmmmmm Why the Magic Pen Quint over 3Flat Ap quints? Also is HP per lvl yellows the best? Wouldnt AP or Mpen be better?

@HonourGaming 9 m