@wandererslegion Yeah, but I reckon Mika Hakkinen was a big driver to Ron as well. No replacement for Senna, but I've got plenty of time for Mika Hakkinen.
@terkmadugga Yeah, Mika Hakkinen was good, very good even...no wonder he got to achieve 2 World Driver Championships later in his career. Ayrton was very fond of Hakkinen job i think
2 seconds faster one year later with MP4/6, there was heavy development in those years on all areas, tires, aero, engine, electronics. TV, magazines&books had so much to talk about back then & I loved it. Today all you can do is optimize the aero & do a bit of tweaking on the standard ECU & when there's a tiny bit of inovation it gets protested & finally banned not even during a season or beforehand heavily restricted like the KERS. Only very good development the last years: quickshift boxes.
@armorgeddon agree. I hate all the restrictions in place now. Cars of today are barely quicker than in 1993 and much slower than those of 2004. I want to see guys flat out all race and seeing engines, tyres, gearboxes unlimited and being pushed to the limit. I wouldn't mind the cars being a bit harder to drive, there's so few driver errors now we're having to make fake overtaking.
IMHO....if Schumacher is that great...how come he's never been on the podium even once with his Mercedes now?? Senna would win GPs with an inferior car...the arguments end there!
If it had not been for the french couple "Prost and Balestre", this shinning star would probably still be amog us. They made his life in F1 hell from the day that he was going to beat "the professor" at monaco but he started to wave at the officials to stop the race and from that moment on Ayrton was treated directly like prost and balestre wanted they robbed him many times and he still fought. If the things that he deserved would not have been robbed he may have never gone to williams that year
Senna is the all-time master of the insane banzai qualifying lap, in 161 starts he top qualified 65 times with cars that would be qualifying tuned to 1500+ peak horsepower and a manual shifted transmission, insane.
Acredito muito no rubens,porque?se não fosse a patota do shumi...vigarista...kkk HOJE,nosso brasileiro com muito orgulho,com muito amor,rubens seria bi campeão..ou tri...(mas tudo na vida tem seu porém e não olha,a quem!)então,todos juntos,viva o brasil.
Senna stomps Shoemaker. Remember, Mikey only started really winning after they changed to push button, auto formula, not when the drivers actually DROVE the cars like in this vid!
If senna was the one with 91 wins and 7 titles. And MS was the one with 41 and 3 would this conversation even come up..no. Simply because like my friend Mallamoozoo once said. its the quality of those wins. But the fact that the better driver had less win and most expert will agree, we have to look inside the numbers...When senna had the best car...he also went up against the best possible..so 8 wins in 1988 could have been 12 wins out of 16 if Eddie Irvine was his team mate....just my idea
@dalebshelton Excellent point - Senna's 8 wins in his first year in Prost's home team is absolutely sensational - i'd say worth 14 or 15 out of 16 against Irvine.
And then in Senna's 2nd year, after he had settled into Prost's home team, Senna wiped the floor - winning 6 (7 counting the egregious Japan disqual) and leading 4 others until mechanical failure handed Prost his only 4 wins - but for mechanical letdowns, Senna would have won 12 nil even against the great Prost!
@mallamoozoo You Put Ayrton Senna in a Ferrari that goes 39 races without a mechanical Failure. How many times would he captitalize. You put Ayrton Senna in Jerez with a 4 point lead on Villinueve..do you think he would even get along side? You put Senna in Japan with a chance to win against Hakkinen and you know that the result. You put Ayrton Senna in a Ferarri in 2005 that is just slightly slower than the Renault and Mclaren...he would pull off more 0 wins head to head. Thats Senna.
Remember that when Senna became Prost's team mate in McLaren, Prost had 28 overall wins which made him the most successful driver of all time in F1. Prost was one of the all time greats, that Senna beat him in the same car speaks volumes.
Mansell had Piquet as team mate, who was already a two time champion.
Interestingly enough none of Schumacher's team mates had even won a race when becoming his team mate.
Once again. Stupid comment. Perhaps Schumi never had good team mates. But he had very, very strong rivals. Especially Hakkinen, but the difference is Hakkinen had the best car in almost every year. Look how dominant the mclaren was in 98, yet Schumi nearly wins the title. In 99 no doubt Schumi would have won if not for the bad luck he sustained and also a leg injury...
Schumacher was not half the driver Senna was. 1992 the Mclaren was a total piece of junk, and Senna's broke down some 7 times during the season. It was so bad that Senna considered taking a leave from racing.
Its not evidence of anything. Christ, I cant believe you tried to pull that bs off on the other guy.
If you ask me, the best judges are the drivers themselves. Know who they think is the best driver ever?
All is relative, my point was that the McLaren was not a front runner that year. Yes, Senna managed to pull off some results with it - even a few wins. That does not change the fact that the car was not competitive and it was unreliable (look also at Berger's number of breakdowns).
But nice try. Particularly dodging 90% of my post :)
I would suggest you think real hard next time before you call someone stupid. It may blow up in your face.
@alin1975 dummy, if the car could win and pole well, then it must be fast, if it's fast and schumi can keep up and out perform at times, then this nonsense that senna is twice as good or whatever is made a mockery of.
Don't forget stupid, Alesi and Berger had schumi's WDC winning car in 96 and did squat with it.
There is a huge difference between the car being able to sometimes win and to "win and pole well". Then there is the lack of reliability (a major factor for both cars). Plus Senna could get results even out of a non-competitive car.
You keep calling me stupid, yet you take everything I say literally, even when a child would know better.
No, Senna was not "twice as good". He was however the better driver, as acknowledged by most drivers and experts. In 1992 he also had the worse car
@alin1975 I don't care whether he's better, I only care that dimtwits don't disgrace schumi's ability because they're dumbassed brazilian assholes who know nothing about nothing.
Well, I have no issue with Schumacher's ability. He is definitely a top 5 driver ever. Not sure exactly where I would place him, but he is certainly up there.
It seems you're very angry about Brazilians...they're just like your boundaries, they idolize Ayrtonn, because he was at the time of real F1 races....the best...sorry if you feel like this, but maybe you should consider what not too many people know..."Why Shummi cried after Senna's death?"....I can tell you if you apologize for your barbaric and rude way and judgement about a nation...
I have long since actually been excited watching F1 - I still watch it but it's more out of a sense of duty to the memory of a once great sport - there isn't much spark anymore for me - but when i see the classic archives of this golden era - particularly Senna pole laps - I'm alive again - just like when it was all fresh. It reminds me how it used to be - they were special times - i knew it even then - that it was a golden era and it wouldn't last, but it's still sad to know it's over,finished.
you just dont know any f*cking crap about f1. you dont have info, you dont have nothing. you know nothing actually. it's insane that there are still anti-senna people.
HIS F*CKING ENGINE, was not fuel efficient, not much reliable, and underpowered by the most of the year. that's actually WHY HE SAID HE doesnt know if he will remain in mclaren after '90 (contract ended there)
he wanted to push the mechanics, the whole team to do somethin' better.
The people who say Michael Schumacher was the best F1 driver of all time are the people who know jackshit about F1! Numbers do not mean anything if you know the story behind them!
So what? At 23 Schu has 1 year of F1 experience and 1 year of high powered sports cars- the fastest thing Senna had driven was a poxy F3 car.
It's a completely irrelevant comparison- you may as well compare drivers who start kiddie karts at 3 and 5 and say the former was much better at 4 years old.
WHO GIVES A SHIT!- it simply means they started their development curves at different ages- that's meaningless- all that matters is the shape of the curve and 100% for sure- Senna's went highest.
brundle's F3 car had a better engine (Novamotor) for a large part of the season - when Senna had an equal motor he blew brundle away in F3 - so that takes care of your stupid little attempt at setting up a deductive model.
11 years at ferrari with all resources focussed on him exclusively (and that was more resources than any other team in history.)
11 years of team-orders at ferrari.
0 World Champion team-mates.
This means Schumacher is not only NOT the best - but arguably not even top 10 - lets face it - any monkey could get the stats you listed in the context of the stats I listed.
Dont twist the facts you idiot - as if I didnt watch the 92 season myself - you think I dont know that Berger won 2 GP only after Senna retired a mile in front of him?
When did brundle say that? I hope you dont mean when he compared it to the 2002 Ferrari you idiot!
2) What the fuck has 1995 got to do with the 92 Benetton? You might as well compare it to the 2009 Renault - completely different year , rules, specs, everything!. idiot!
A circuit is not just straights (In fact top speed accounts for only about 5% of a lap).
A V8 is more tractable, a more progressive power curve, meaning more controllable and forgiving - FAR more "driveable" in corner exits (much more prevalent than top speed sections).
That's 2 comments you have made using partial and selective analysis - i see a pattern in your style'......It's called BIAS.
in 92 Senna had a powerful V12 but an under par chassis, schumacher had a less powerful V8 but arguebly a better chassis. in 93 i think the macca and the benetton were pretty even giving senna the slight edge due to 5 wins verse 1. the schumacher of 97 - 06 would have given Senna a run atleast though.
I think we can tell how good the 92 Benetton was by Brundle's performance - points in almost every race and almost won, would have won, in Canada. Clearly it was good car. The McL was an absolute pig. (When Michael Andretti drove it he said it was the worst car he'd ever driven and commended Senna on doing anything at all noteworthy (3 wins) with it. He said the 93 car was much better - which it was chassis wise - but it had an underpowered Ford engine while B'ton had the best Ford engine.
All round - yes Prost was better than Schumacher. Prost was 1st or 2nd in the World Championship 8 times in 12 years - Schu 9 times in 15 years. (And Prost had the highest calibre team-mates ever (NINE Titles between them) - Senna, Mansell, Lauda, even Rosberg, Hill and Alesi were better than any of schui's B-grade and C-grade team-mates (ZERO Titles amongst them).
With out Senna around - Prosts stats would have dwarfed Schui's final stats.
@clay111 maybe maybe not - Schuis ferrari's from 2000-2004 were pretty much like Mansells 92 Willaims - so how good would mansell have looked if illiams had that dominance from 88-92?
That is an absolutely absurd comment. Mansell's 92 williams had a 2 second advantage to every other car. The ferraris from 00-04 had nowhere near that advantage.
@clay111 Better, yes, but not by much, in my opinion. Remember, that Mansell competed against Senna, Prost and Piquet, in their primes, in the same seasons. Schumacher only had(with all due respect) Hill, Hakkinen and Villeneuve in any one year to compete with.
@F1archivesDotCom he cood cep up with senna when he was a boy and im realy not trying 2 put senna down coz i do like him the most and i dont like schumacher that much but people say senna is better or so and so is better but u dont realy no and people just say who they like more and the fact is schumacher is the most succsesful F1 driver and cood hold his own agenst the best when he was basikly a kid i dont like 2 admit it but i do belive if all the racers raced at there prime michael wood win
@gerico123454 I really have to disagree. Senna and Schumacher in the same car - it would be close but you'd find Senna starting from pole nearly all of the time and running away with the race imho. Schumacher had some very good cars for many seasons, with subservient #2 drivers. Senna had a fantastic car for 88/89 but that was it. In 1990, the Ferrari was just as good. In 91, the Williams was by far the better car.
@arturcraft2 OH please. Firstly, learn some F1 history. In 93, Schumacher's Benneton had the works Ford v8. Not McLaren. They had a basic Ford engine that was worked on by a 3rd party (and had around 30-50bhp less). Senna and McLaren ONLY received the same engine as Benetton had around half way through the season. Do a search on the wiki for 1993 formula 1 season and check the team info on enginees.
@arturcraft2 oh and Senna won 5 races that year, in an inferior car. To Schumacher's 1. Oh, and it was 8 races to 8 races for qualifying for Senna/Schumacher for 93. In most of the races where Schumacher qualified ahead of Senna, Senna was next on the grid, and usually a tenth of a second behind Schumacher in qualifying times. Go check the stats for yourself. Schumacher's car was NOT inferior to Senna's. Senna was simply the better driver who made absolute use of his car.
@mrtheoden In 93, the qualifying battle was equal 8-8 and when Senna was ahead of Schumacher, the german was close too, the same way you said. How can you know for sure that Mclaren was inferior to Bennetton?
I'll repeat, in Suzuka 93, Senna beaten rookie Hakkinen by half tenth of a second, if we consider Schumacher faster than Mika, then Schumi would beat Senna with equal cars in that qualifying.
The reality is that we don't know which car was really the best.
@arturcraft2 of course the MP4/8 was inferior to the B-193 : in term of aerodynamic (Byrne VS Oatley) , in term of chassis etc... Bernard Dudot claimed that Renault Spot has analysed that the best chassis was the B-193 and if it was not the advance in active suspension and the Renault, Williams would not be no1. Mp4/8 was designed lately for the Ford and Senna had during the season an HB-6 VS an HB-7.Then, he had the same engine as Benetton. + Add many active suspension pb for MP4/8
@arturcraft2 you want exemples ? Monaco, Senna (2) and Andretti crashed, suspension going down at the wrong place ( software problems). Senna was beating the pole time of Prost. Same thing earlier at Imola. Senna lap at Barcelone was done with the front right active suspension out of order.Silverstone : huge problems with a car completely different to the private testing the week before without answer ! etc.. At Kyalami, Monaco, Suzuka, Senna could have done pole without problems
@GTAGIS I had great time reading your comments. You live in phantasy world. Your making excuses all the time but I have those sessions and Senna had no problem at all in almost all of them. The "would haves" are quite pathetic. Schumacher just hammered Senna in the head in Silverstone's and Spa's qualifying. Senna had no car problem, no traffic and no error in his best lap. Also, claiming B-193 was the best aero car made me almost rofl
@arturcraft2 You may have these sessions and be blind and deaf. And not looking to search what can help you to analyse what you haven't understood by just watching. Senna, Andretti have explained these problems of suspensions, which, on bums or kerbs, wheen occured, put the car impossible to drive. The reason of the crash of Senna at Ste Devote (in the straight !) crashes of Andretti & Senna at the Chicane du Port, at the last Chicane of Imola or Variante Alta for Senna
@arturcraft2 By the way, I gave you so much information, that your answers proves that you are not intellectually honest. At Spa, where the aero of benetton was far beter that the MP4/8, Senna had wreckes on his side pod radiator which made him loose power during qualifying. on the race, he loose pace with hydraulics problems.
How did I also know about the front right suspension at Barcelone ?because I am searching (not like you, just watching ...)
@GTAGIS wreckes on his side pod? nice one. I would keep this on the bag and use when needed. Schumacher can also make excuses because his fastest lap was very early and traffic didn' allow him to improve that time when the track was faster like Senna and the Williamses did. If Senna is so damn fast, why he and Hakkinen were almost on the same quaifying pace in Estoril and Suzuka. Why couldn't the magic man, "fastest driver ever" put a gap to Mika? What were the problems Senna had there?
@arturcraft2@Suzuka, Senna had almost no lap prior to the first qualifying and I do not remember exactly the reason, but remember that he has estimated that he could do the pole.For Saturday, the mechanics have put twice the fuel needed on the car, they haven't noticed or it has not been registered that the quantity for a set of flying lap was there. At Estoril, Senna who was in clash with Dennis & bad mood ( Williams or not ?), and haven't tested the modifs...
@arturcraft2 ...was not at his best. Mika was very fast & Senna attempts in qualifying was not at the best time and had traffic. You would have noticed that Senna laps were done in an unusual way, having made 12 long before the end of the session and encountered traffic. You would also have noticed big improvement in MP4/8 , mainly AERO for the end of the season ( new nose, new end plates and diffuser ) look at the pace during the race in early laps
@arturcraft2 And I never said that Schuey never had problems during the season . For instance, his problems at Montreal or Spa at the start due to the launch control.or his probable second place loose at Monaco . His 2nd place obtained at Imola, Montreal, 3rd at Magny-Cours etc..obtained on MP4/8 reliability problems
@arturcraft2 by the way, why despite his amazing records, (which should be analysed in details, not in a raw fashion), Shum is not given as the best driver ever ? Even with large part of Scuderia behind him, always having different support, he just managed 0.1/0.2 front of Rubinho ? Why Mika never give him as the best ? Why Schum himself gives Senna as the best ? Why even Briatore gives Senna ?
@GTAGIS If you look into Schumacher's poles and qualifyings in Suzuka, Spa.... you'll see that the gap to Rubens was much bigger. Schumi says Senna is the best because it's not pretty to self praise. Briatore understands nothing about motorsport and he and Schumi broke their relationship in a bad way after Benneton.
@arturcraft2 Indeed for Suzuka & Spa. For Briatore, he said it also when Senna was alive.And in July 93, while being in discussion, Schumacher who of course didn't want Senna in the same team, protested. For the list of persons who certainly know F1 we can give : Dennis, Berger, Lauda, Hakineen, Raikoneen, Patrese, Ecclestone, Alonso , Trulli, Fisico, Symonds, Ascanelli, Nichols, Dudot, Hamilton, Montoya .....
@arturcraft2 and Alesi. I heard Alesi myself, during a TV show, when he was asked about Schumacher being the best, he answered with severity that no! Senna was the best clearly, and that Michael, who was his friend, was an excellent driver, in a very good context, but Senna was obviously the best.
@GTAGIS well, I respect opinions of Senna being the best even if I don't fully agree with it. (imo he was the best in agressiveness, passing, daring, making consistent error-free laps in qualifying). Anyway, do you have many onboard videos from Senna? I have his Suzuka's qualifying from 89,90,91. Do you have from other years?
@arturcraft2 There are little onboard vids of Senna compare to what we can find in this f1 era.You can type AYRTON SENNA ONBOARD AT MONACO WITH LOTUS-HONDA'87. Please take attention at the wheels and the rail at the swimming pool. there also the flying lap at Jerez 90, Senna going 1 second faster than his prior time after the accident of Donnely and passing 2 slow cars by 190kmh difference according to Senna estimation. "Ayrton Senna Jerez 90 Qualy"
@arturcraft2 I also would like to share a story of Senna with you, given by Pat Symonds. You can type Senna, Dallas , Pat Symonds 1984 and you will find it."Dallas was what I would call an ?old-fashioned? North American street circuit, delineated with concrete blocks.It was a very tricky circuit, and bumpy enough to make even Monaco look smooth: the drivers literally had to fight their cars all the way round as they skipped and jumped from bump to bump."
@GTAGIS There is a pole lap from Senna in Phoenix 91 which the street track is exactly the way you described. Extremely bumpy, concrete walls and quite some fast corners.
@arturcraft2 I remember during the race, Ayrton hit the wall, and then later retired because of the damage. When he eventually made it back to the pits, he didn?t seem to understand how he could have hit the wall. It seemed to come as a complete shock to him that he had hit the wall, and his immediate reaction was ?I know I didn?t make a mistake ? the wall must have moved.?"
@arturcraft2 Remember, we were talking about a twenty tonne concrete block here, but he was so insistent that he persuaded me to walk round the circuit and take a look.
"When I did so, the wall had indeed moved ? somebody had clearly clipped the previous block and in doing so, displaced the next one by only about 4cm. Instead of the transition from block to block being smooth, a 4cm difference had caught the rear wheel, broken it and punctured the tyre."
That was when it really came home to me, the precision to which he was driving, and made me think he was a bit special? And remember this was a guy in his first season of F1, straight out of F3?"
@arturcraft2 There was also another amazing story that happened with Ayrton, if I am correct in 1993. Senna was complaining about an engine, and said that something was wrong and gave an expected estimation of laps where the engine would expire. engineers found nothing on telemetry and Senna still insisting. Finally, Ron Dennis gave the order : change that engine, so Senna would be in good psychological mood. Finally, Senna was correct when they tested that engine back in England
@arturcraft2 i used to have many vids of F1 and between us, I do enjoy more watching old F1 than the homosexualised stuff that progressively appeared when Lords of driving finally disappeared. Although I do like some of the drivers of today, there is a trend without any moral opposition that made the F1 to much easy : flat kerbs, easy corners/circuits, stupid technical and sportive rules, large asphalt runways , anti stalling systems , very difficult to retire on a mistake
@GTAGIS@arturcraft2 you cannot even make a difference on corners, like Senna made at swimming pool. On that corner only, Senna was more than half second faster than Prost ! For interesting stuffs, you can go on the youtube account of "ayrtonsennaonline" "ayrtonsennaonlinenow" "ClassicF1Vids1" You can also go to pvat34 dot com It's in French but you'll find interesting stuffs in different languages English, French, Italian ..races and qualifying, docs on drivers, teams...great
@GTAGIS I think we started with the wrong foot. I completely agree with everything you said there. I hate flat kerbs, circuits without challenging corners and this kind of "easy to drive" cars of nowadays. I much prefer F1 of late 80's and early 90's.
F1 today is really faggotish, if you excuse the expression.
@arturcraft2 Yes, I agree with all you said, f1 pretty much sucks nowadays. BUT! Flat kerbs is a must I would say. Just watch Hakkinen's crash in Adelaide 1995, and you'll see that thos kerbs that looked like mountains, were very bad for him, because they threw the car in the air, where it won't slow down. As a result he went very fast into the wall, hit his head on the sterring wheel and cockpit, and swallowed his tongue while he was knocked uncosncious.
@arturcraft2 Well, sometimes that can't be done. For example, the infamous Tamburello. When Berger crashed there the next day senna and berger went there to see what could be done to improve the safety of the corner. But they found that behind the concrete wall there was a small river so they couldn't make a bigger run-off area. And next time someone crashed there, it was fatal. And you'll see when webber flew his car in Valencia, the wall was already very far from the track.
@arturcraft2 You want Mika Hakineen about Silverstone ? he could not, neither him or the team, explain what happens with the car. Just tap on youtube "F1 British GP 1993 Mika Hakkinen Interview" by the way, have you seen the huge difference between benetton and McLaren ?have you seen the difference between the flaps? Senna complaining about huge problems of balance. At this point, this is obvious for any one who really knows F1(not like you) that this is a car problem
@arturcraft2 At Magny-Cours, it is also obvious. Schuey passing Senna at the acceleration on the straight, Senna having problems like he had loose 1st gear and have therefore slow acceleration. Andretti qualifying very bad , and during private testing on Monday at the same place, like having a different car and setting very good time. etc..on contrary to you, I can give things, which prove that I have searched and not just stopped on raw results.
@arturcraft2 By the way, Rory Byrne design ( which for you knowledge is a huge improvement of Migeot & Postlethwaite concept) was then adopted by everyone : high cone nose, giving less Cx and more downforce grip ! Since Mclaren loose Gordon Murray and Nichols, aerodynamics was not their best! Especially it was taking more and more importance. Just look at the difference between the MP4/12 and the Mp4/13(Newey) to catch the point.
@GTAGIS If you ever read about car aero books, you would know that low noses are always the best. Other types of noses would only be better options under some regulation restrictions. FYI, Byrne is not even an aero guy. He's usually refered as a designer but that's vague because he doesn't interfeer in the aerodynamics department. If Mclaren had inferior aero than Bennetton than they made magic in Suzuka because Hakkinen and Senna were some 3/4 tenths faster than Benneton there
@arturcraft2 Another point, because I know a lot this period and most of Schum fans do not : they give me Monaco as an exemple of Schum supposedly best perf than Senna . Senna was on a non stop strategy and tis is the reason that Prost and Schum where bombarding. Senna finaly stopped during the race, because of security. Despite his crash in Thursday, and lack of laps, injured, Saturday he was about to beat Prost on qualifying. If you just look at final results you ignore that.
@mrtheoden i couldnt agree more with you, read my recent comment! dont forget that Senna was 34 when he died and was never had felt more fit, he easily had at least another 6 years in him and in my opinion and also the opinion of experts he was going to win another 2 maybe 3 more titles... For me he was thee best F1 driver of all time, michael would have taken him all the way but would have never been as successful as he already is.. its a pity Bruno isnt a quarter as good :-/
@mrtheoden lol another Senna fan that cannot get over the fact that Schumi has more titles, you cannot say who is better unless you get them when they are both at their peaks and in the same car, so we will never know the answer to that so get over it...
@celpabedn more titles? do you remember how utterly superior that 2000 - 2004 ferrari car was? lol, senna was beating williams cars even when they had the ultimate driving aid, active suspension. Im not saying mclaren werent a great team but winning a race with a Tolemon car was like climbing everest in a t-shirt...
@tmurphy83 so you are saying Ferrari was more reliable? LOL, Schumi joined Ferrari when body parts were flying away every race and it was normal, if he did the Senna,Prost, thing, lets go from one company to another, he would have won even more, Mclaren still holds the most race wins in a season, Michael pulled races even when Ferrari was not competitive and he did it on wet and pit stops. I am a Michael fan, but i will never act like a Senna fan, claiming without proof!
@celpabedn dude...Schumi hasn't yet had EVEN a podium (forget a win) on his Mercedes now! Senna won GPs with clearly inferior cars (Lotus, McClaren Ford). Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure who was the more competent pilot. And Schumi always had a clear No.2 team mate when he was "dominating"!!
@rapidtranq So when Michael Jordan came back it wasnt his age but he sucked on a different team and slower reflexes and lower muscle tone did nor prevent him right?
When you will be Michaels age compare yourself when you were 24 ok?
@connected1914 Mansell had the most technologically advanced F1 car of all time, which was seconds faster than the rest of the field. Also, Mansell did not leave for three years before 1992.
comparing F1 seasons from 1991 (or what have you) and 2011 /Senna and Schumacher is like comparing Bruce Lee and Wladimir Klitschko or a street legal car to an F1 car. It's just impossible. Spin the clock back 20 years it was more about the driver, but today it's just impossible to win without the right material.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Schumacher is better then Senna, nor the other way around - you just can't compare them. And you should accept what Schumi achieved in F1
@rapidtranq I also have to add that when Senna was looking anothere opportunity to run season 1994 if Prost would block again backed with Renault, he was thinking to Ferrari (Schum get the Senna type contract that Di Montezemello has prepared for Ayrton ) and also Benetton. In july 93, Schumacher scared and said that "Senna would destroy the mood of Benetton" Briatore, enemy of Senna (but recognized that Senna better than Schuey) wanted him of course but no more than 15M$
@rapidtranq Schumacher is 42. This is not a fair comparison. The 94 Beneton was an inferior car and he was doing magic with it. Was watching onbards when he was sliding that car into the chicane at imola 1994. Truly stunning. Call him a cheat or something else but he was brilliant and absolutely ready to dethrone Senna.
@mrtheoden As well as in 92 and 93, specially 93, until the last 3 races when they received the same factory Ford engine that Benneton had all season long.
@mrtheoden To be fair, most all-time greats had #2 drivers, including Senna (remember that Prost was only his teammate for two of the ten years Senna was in F1). Also, Senna would for sure beat Schumi in qualifying, but IMO the races would be much closer. Senna's "Fast lap-Slow lap-Fast lap-Slow lap" approach wouldn't work with Michael, and he wouldn't be able to build a gap early and maintain it to the finish. As for the cars, Only three of Schumi's cars were dominant. The rest were good/ok.
ahah Ron Dennis face at the end, he never had a driver like this since then
wandererslegion 1 month ago 5
@wandererslegion Yeah, but I reckon Mika Hakkinen was a big driver to Ron as well. No replacement for Senna, but I've got plenty of time for Mika Hakkinen.
terkmadugga 2 weeks ago
@terkmadugga Yeah, Mika Hakkinen was good, very good even...no wonder he got to achieve 2 World Driver Championships later in his career. Ayrton was very fond of Hakkinen job i think
wandererslegion 2 weeks ago
man I love that shot at 1:39, senna's in the cockpit like "easy.."
shawngtp 1 month ago
@shawngtp Or "what were you expecting, me behind Prost or what...?" :)
AlejjSi 1 month ago
#descriptionfail
Jejking 1 month ago
Oh the graphic was soooo ugly :-X.
PetrJePan 2 months ago
its so fast tat some red is trolling behind it
husnainanwaar1992 2 months ago
un suck nut.
moondog203 3 months ago
0.5seconds in ... 500meters?
MaFd0n 4 months ago
2 seconds faster one year later with MP4/6, there was heavy development in those years on all areas, tires, aero, engine, electronics. TV, magazines&books had so much to talk about back then & I loved it. Today all you can do is optimize the aero & do a bit of tweaking on the standard ECU & when there's a tiny bit of inovation it gets protested & finally banned not even during a season or beforehand heavily restricted like the KERS. Only very good development the last years: quickshift boxes.
armorgeddon 4 months ago
@armorgeddon agree. I hate all the restrictions in place now. Cars of today are barely quicker than in 1993 and much slower than those of 2004. I want to see guys flat out all race and seeing engines, tyres, gearboxes unlimited and being pushed to the limit. I wouldn't mind the cars being a bit harder to drive, there's so few driver errors now we're having to make fake overtaking.
91jb12 2 months ago
Senna forever
lolzforthewinzor 4 months ago
Senna's competitors: Prost, Mansell, Piquet. End of story.
ishmc 7 months ago
IMHO....if Schumacher is that great...how come he's never been on the podium even once with his Mercedes now?? Senna would win GPs with an inferior car...the arguments end there!
rapidtranq 7 months ago
Ron looks on......
djcheff 7 months ago
he keeps saying "spoon"
CokeWTF 8 months ago
If it had not been for the french couple "Prost and Balestre", this shinning star would probably still be amog us. They made his life in F1 hell from the day that he was going to beat "the professor" at monaco but he started to wave at the officials to stop the race and from that moment on Ayrton was treated directly like prost and balestre wanted they robbed him many times and he still fought. If the things that he deserved would not have been robbed he may have never gone to williams that year
javiercb101068 8 months ago
I love Japanese commentators .. so passionate .. they were crying openly on the air at Imola '94 ... thats what we need!
kedharf1 9 months ago
17 años sin ayrton, SENNA FOREVER dep
torerobohoyo 10 months ago
Is that the Sasuke guy?
manwalrus 11 months ago
This was when 130R was actually one of the greats. Now it is nothing, all thanks to the talentless Alan Mcnish.
rich1701 11 months ago
Ayrton Senna on a qualifying lap took an F1 car to its full potential
Erkal2006 1 year ago
Nice upload , find 1000's of F1 races to download @ tf1s.com
tf1sracestewards 1 year ago
Why is Sennas car numbered 27?
johnnyfiveisking 1 year ago
@johnnyfiveisking Because prost won in 89 and moved to Ferrari for 90 taking the number 1 with him.
quasiphatpaul 1 year ago
senna is the best driver 4 ever
thepacamaru 1 year ago
the year is 1994?
TheCesarF12 1 year ago
The commentator is awesome.
Reserved and dignified in the beginning, then Senna's magic has him screaming like a kid by the end of the lap!
Anyone have a translation?
clarkanorak 1 year ago 24
@clarkanorak I WANT TO WASH SENNA'S BALLS
MrKwameR 11 months ago
Mr Magoo was a great driver...but Senna was better!
JohnRagoon 1 year ago
Nearly Half a second in the last sector alone!!
Fucking brilliant
clarkanorak 1 year ago 5
This has been flagged as spam show
facebook.com/pages/Top-Gears-Tribute-To-Ayrton-Senna/141320515896795?v=wall
ilMafiosso 1 year ago
1. Fangio
2. Senna
3. Prost
4. Lole
RoxasSP 1 year ago 2
@RoxasSP
swap the first two and you got it!
hvf26 1 year ago
@hvf26 No: D, because Fangio was the first and can not be compared to senna, and is worthy of this first and all the world recognizes.
Fangio drove the same car so old that reached 300km / h
So you tell me?
RoxasSP 1 year ago
Senna is the all-time master of the insane banzai qualifying lap, in 161 starts he top qualified 65 times with cars that would be qualifying tuned to 1500+ peak horsepower and a manual shifted transmission, insane.
81broncoman 1 year ago 2
Senna was great, however not as good as the great Jim Clark!!!!
davidiainbrown1982 1 year ago
1. Senna
2. Ayrton
3. Ayrton Senna
4 .Shit
5 .Shumacher
Shumacher is like a shit...
smuvlis 1 year ago
1.senna
2.fangio
3.schumacher
4.prost
5.clark
telephonic 1 year ago
Your description is full of crap, loser
zcapcc6 1 year ago
Acredito muito no rubens,porque?se não fosse a patota do shumi...vigarista...kkk HOJE,nosso brasileiro com muito orgulho,com muito amor,rubens seria bi campeão..ou tri...(mas tudo na vida tem seu porém e não olha,a quem!)então,todos juntos,viva o brasil.
sanno2008 1 year ago
are you crazy? how any can argue that senna is the most skilled driver of history?
pay2000 1 year ago
senna is better than all for ever
TheTonyguitar 1 year ago
Senna stomps Shoemaker. Remember, Mikey only started really winning after they changed to push button, auto formula, not when the drivers actually DROVE the cars like in this vid!
vuetube 1 year ago
The best driver, in the best car, at one of the bests track in F1. . .Can't get any better. . .
And LOVE Japenese commentary. Can't be beat!!!
BlueFox284 1 year ago
The Most beautiful cars in F1. I miss this ära
olske1981 1 year ago
1. Senna
2. Clark
3. Fangio, Schumacher
4. Prost
Prost cannot be higher compare to Clark, Fangio and Schumacher!
sennathebest100 1 year ago
If senna was the one with 91 wins and 7 titles. And MS was the one with 41 and 3 would this conversation even come up..no. Simply because like my friend Mallamoozoo once said. its the quality of those wins. But the fact that the better driver had less win and most expert will agree, we have to look inside the numbers...When senna had the best car...he also went up against the best possible..so 8 wins in 1988 could have been 12 wins out of 16 if Eddie Irvine was his team mate....just my idea
dalebshelton 1 year ago
@dalebshelton Excellent point - Senna's 8 wins in his first year in Prost's home team is absolutely sensational - i'd say worth 14 or 15 out of 16 against Irvine.
And then in Senna's 2nd year, after he had settled into Prost's home team, Senna wiped the floor - winning 6 (7 counting the egregious Japan disqual) and leading 4 others until mechanical failure handed Prost his only 4 wins - but for mechanical letdowns, Senna would have won 12 nil even against the great Prost!
mallamoozoo 1 year ago
@mallamoozoo You Put Ayrton Senna in a Ferrari that goes 39 races without a mechanical Failure. How many times would he captitalize. You put Ayrton Senna in Jerez with a 4 point lead on Villinueve..do you think he would even get along side? You put Senna in Japan with a chance to win against Hakkinen and you know that the result. You put Ayrton Senna in a Ferarri in 2005 that is just slightly slower than the Renault and Mclaren...he would pull off more 0 wins head to head. Thats Senna.
dalebshelton 1 year ago 3
@mallamoozoo
Remember that when Senna became Prost's team mate in McLaren, Prost had 28 overall wins which made him the most successful driver of all time in F1. Prost was one of the all time greats, that Senna beat him in the same car speaks volumes.
Mansell had Piquet as team mate, who was already a two time champion.
Interestingly enough none of Schumacher's team mates had even won a race when becoming his team mate.
McLarenMercedes 1 year ago
@dalebshelton
Once again. Stupid comment. Perhaps Schumi never had good team mates. But he had very, very strong rivals. Especially Hakkinen, but the difference is Hakkinen had the best car in almost every year. Look how dominant the mclaren was in 98, yet Schumi nearly wins the title. In 99 no doubt Schumi would have won if not for the bad luck he sustained and also a leg injury...
Anime998877 1 year ago
lol ron denis at the end is like "the fuck was this?!"
bubi8894 1 year ago
Ayrton Senna For Ever...
From Portugal
ToyodaTex 1 year ago
wow Ron looks so young!
billyposter 1 year ago
Nice, ayrton senna the best ever .
bullitt042001 2 years ago 3
What a beautiful car and livery, today's cars look emasculated.
celpabedn 2 years ago 2
the greatest driver ever beside schumi and kimi
fazril 2 years ago
Comment removed
JECKSNUMBERTHREE 2 years ago 37
@JECKSNUMBERTHREE dummy, if u watch 1992, you see schumi far ahead of senna.
MrKwameR 11 months ago
@MrKwameR dummy, shumacher who?
Shumi is far behind Senna in the heart of the motorsport fan, Ayrton you miss
JECKSNUMBERTHREE 11 months ago
@JECKSNUMBERTHREE in the heart of the ignorant F1 fan....stupid oblivious little boy
MrKwameR 11 months ago
@MrKwameR Your funny, but you dont knows anything in Motosport, are you fan about Hamiton to??? LOL
JECKSNUMBERTHREE 11 months ago
@JECKSNUMBERTHREE I have the 92 season on my PC shithead, and can see with my own eyes how good schumi is hahahahahahaa
MrKwameR 11 months ago
@MrKwameR Hold your own shit in your eyes and keep your masturbation with 92 season, idiot
JECKSNUMBERTHREE 11 months ago
@JECKSNUMBERTHREE LOL, dumb little boy, don't spread unfounded rumours about schumi.
I have EVIDENCE, whereas you just have hear say....u r very stupid.
MrKwameR 11 months ago
@MrKwameR I dont want to by your friend, leave me now, and put your evidence in your a**, that good for you
JECKSNUMBERTHREE 11 months ago
@MrKwameR You're both little, shut up and let me watch the lap.
manwalrus 11 months ago
@MrKwameR
Schumacher was not half the driver Senna was. 1992 the Mclaren was a total piece of junk, and Senna's broke down some 7 times during the season. It was so bad that Senna considered taking a leave from racing.
Its not evidence of anything. Christ, I cant believe you tried to pull that bs off on the other guy.
If you ask me, the best judges are the drivers themselves. Know who they think is the best driver ever?
alin1975 11 months ago
@alin1975 He took pole in canada stupid....yeah, a real piece of junk.
MrKwameR 11 months ago
@MrKwameR
All is relative, my point was that the McLaren was not a front runner that year. Yes, Senna managed to pull off some results with it - even a few wins. That does not change the fact that the car was not competitive and it was unreliable (look also at Berger's number of breakdowns).
But nice try. Particularly dodging 90% of my post :)
I would suggest you think real hard next time before you call someone stupid. It may blow up in your face.
alin1975 11 months ago
@alin1975 dummy, if the car could win and pole well, then it must be fast, if it's fast and schumi can keep up and out perform at times, then this nonsense that senna is twice as good or whatever is made a mockery of.
Don't forget stupid, Alesi and Berger had schumi's WDC winning car in 96 and did squat with it.
MrKwameR 11 months ago
@MrKwameR
There is a huge difference between the car being able to sometimes win and to "win and pole well". Then there is the lack of reliability (a major factor for both cars). Plus Senna could get results even out of a non-competitive car.
You keep calling me stupid, yet you take everything I say literally, even when a child would know better.
No, Senna was not "twice as good". He was however the better driver, as acknowledged by most drivers and experts. In 1992 he also had the worse car
alin1975 11 months ago
@alin1975 I don't care whether he's better, I only care that dimtwits don't disgrace schumi's ability because they're dumbassed brazilian assholes who know nothing about nothing.
MrKwameR 11 months ago
@MrKwameR
Well, I have no issue with Schumacher's ability. He is definitely a top 5 driver ever. Not sure exactly where I would place him, but he is certainly up there.
alin1975 11 months ago
@MrKwame
It seems you're very angry about Brazilians...they're just like your boundaries, they idolize Ayrtonn, because he was at the time of real F1 races....the best...sorry if you feel like this, but maybe you should consider what not too many people know..."Why Shummi cried after Senna's death?"....I can tell you if you apologize for your barbaric and rude way and judgement about a nation...
edlespaul 11 months ago
@edlespaul as if you'd know.
IMO, it was the fact that at one point the WDC was slipping away from him, and that the win at Monza ensured he was back on track.
I'm Australian, but I only support those who I judge as the best, this is why I race as Vettal in F1 2010 and not webber.
MrKwameR 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
His Car Looks Like The 2009 Mclaren Looks Like Hamilton Driving.
LewisHamilton1991 2 years ago
@LewisHamilton1991 what? o.O
connected1914 2 years ago
I have long since actually been excited watching F1 - I still watch it but it's more out of a sense of duty to the memory of a once great sport - there isn't much spark anymore for me - but when i see the classic archives of this golden era - particularly Senna pole laps - I'm alive again - just like when it was all fresh. It reminds me how it used to be - they were special times - i knew it even then - that it was a golden era and it wouldn't last, but it's still sad to know it's over,finished.
mallamoozoo 2 years ago 4
mate don't mess up with idiots like him.
he just has big problems in his life, and coz of this he just attacks everyone on youtube.
the best thing we can do all, is to not reply in his gayish messages ;)
csracing92 2 years ago
shoeme69, you're insane mate.
you just dont know any f*cking crap about f1. you dont have info, you dont have nothing. you know nothing actually. it's insane that there are still anti-senna people.
HIS F*CKING ENGINE, was not fuel efficient, not much reliable, and underpowered by the most of the year. that's actually WHY HE SAID HE doesnt know if he will remain in mclaren after '90 (contract ended there)
he wanted to push the mechanics, the whole team to do somethin' better.
you're ridiculous.
csracing92 2 years ago 5
The people who say Michael Schumacher was the best F1 driver of all time are the people who know jackshit about F1! Numbers do not mean anything if you know the story behind them!
MrMarshmellowMan100 2 years ago 5
r.i.p.
ego2d 2 years ago
WRONG LOL - Fact is Brundle said;
"Senna had the greater god-given talent"
"Senna was the best and most talented driver i ever drove against - then Schumacher and hakkinen"
OWNED
LOL
ROFLCOPTER!
mallamoozoo 2 years ago 6
So what? At 23 Schu has 1 year of F1 experience and 1 year of high powered sports cars- the fastest thing Senna had driven was a poxy F3 car.
It's a completely irrelevant comparison- you may as well compare drivers who start kiddie karts at 3 and 5 and say the former was much better at 4 years old.
WHO GIVES A SHIT!- it simply means they started their development curves at different ages- that's meaningless- all that matters is the shape of the curve and 100% for sure- Senna's went highest.
mallamoozoo 2 years ago 3
brundle's F3 car had a better engine (Novamotor) for a large part of the season - when Senna had an equal motor he blew brundle away in F3 - so that takes care of your stupid little attempt at setting up a deductive model.
FAIL! OWNED! ROFL!
mallamoozoo 2 years ago 3
Schumacher
250 GP
11 years at ferrari with all resources focussed on him exclusively (and that was more resources than any other team in history.)
11 years of team-orders at ferrari.
0 World Champion team-mates.
This means Schumacher is not only NOT the best - but arguably not even top 10 - lets face it - any monkey could get the stats you listed in the context of the stats I listed.
OWNED, PWNED, SCHOOLED AND BURIED!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA
mallamoozoo 2 years ago 2
Dont twist the facts you idiot - as if I didnt watch the 92 season myself - you think I dont know that Berger won 2 GP only after Senna retired a mile in front of him?
OWNED HAHAAHA
mallamoozoo 2 years ago
HAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAH
Sorry just trying to show how stupid someone sounds when they write this.
gold333 2 years ago
Thats cos he had just spent a year in the incredible 92 williams that drove itself - compared to that EVERYTHING was a pig.
Patrese was useless anyway - mansell crushed him 9 wins to 1 in the same car. Another b-grade team-mate in Schui's long list!
mallamoozoo 2 years ago
When did brundle say that? I hope you dont mean when he compared it to the 2002 Ferrari you idiot!
2) What the fuck has 1995 got to do with the 92 Benetton? You might as well compare it to the 2009 Renault - completely different year , rules, specs, everything!. idiot!
mallamoozoo 2 years ago 2
A circuit is not just straights (In fact top speed accounts for only about 5% of a lap).
A V8 is more tractable, a more progressive power curve, meaning more controllable and forgiving - FAR more "driveable" in corner exits (much more prevalent than top speed sections).
That's 2 comments you have made using partial and selective analysis - i see a pattern in your style'......It's called BIAS.
LOL
mallamoozoo 2 years ago
in 92 Senna had a powerful V12 but an under par chassis, schumacher had a less powerful V8 but arguebly a better chassis. in 93 i think the macca and the benetton were pretty even giving senna the slight edge due to 5 wins verse 1. the schumacher of 97 - 06 would have given Senna a run atleast though.
clay111 2 years ago
I think we can tell how good the 92 Benetton was by Brundle's performance - points in almost every race and almost won, would have won, in Canada. Clearly it was good car. The McL was an absolute pig. (When Michael Andretti drove it he said it was the worst car he'd ever driven and commended Senna on doing anything at all noteworthy (3 wins) with it. He said the 93 car was much better - which it was chassis wise - but it had an underpowered Ford engine while B'ton had the best Ford engine.
mallamoozoo 2 years ago
ok i recognize you think senna is better than MS. Me too but not by much.
do you think prost was better than MS?
clay111 2 years ago
All round - yes Prost was better than Schumacher. Prost was 1st or 2nd in the World Championship 8 times in 12 years - Schu 9 times in 15 years. (And Prost had the highest calibre team-mates ever (NINE Titles between them) - Senna, Mansell, Lauda, even Rosberg, Hill and Alesi were better than any of schui's B-grade and C-grade team-mates (ZERO Titles amongst them).
With out Senna around - Prosts stats would have dwarfed Schui's final stats.
But Senna was better than both - and by a LOT!
mallamoozoo 2 years ago
1. Senna
2. Prost
3. Clark
4. Fangio
=5. Schumacher, Mansell, Gilles Villeneuve
mallamoozoo 2 years ago
schumacher is defininately better than mansell in my opinion
clay111 2 years ago
@clay111 maybe maybe not - Schuis ferrari's from 2000-2004 were pretty much like Mansells 92 Willaims - so how good would mansell have looked if illiams had that dominance from 88-92?
mallamoozoo 1 year ago
@mallamoozoo
That is an absolutely absurd comment. Mansell's 92 williams had a 2 second advantage to every other car. The ferraris from 00-04 had nowhere near that advantage.
Anime998877 1 year ago
@clay111 Better, yes, but not by much, in my opinion. Remember, that Mansell competed against Senna, Prost and Piquet, in their primes, in the same seasons. Schumacher only had(with all due respect) Hill, Hakkinen and Villeneuve in any one year to compete with.
F1archivesDotCom 1 year ago 3
@F1archivesDotCom schumacher competed against prost mansell and senna when he was a rookie and did extremely well
clay111 1 year ago 3
@clay111 rofl on witch computer game did you see it?
Saki2407 1 year ago 2
@F1archivesDotCom he cood cep up with senna when he was a boy and im realy not trying 2 put senna down coz i do like him the most and i dont like schumacher that much but people say senna is better or so and so is better but u dont realy no and people just say who they like more and the fact is schumacher is the most succsesful F1 driver and cood hold his own agenst the best when he was basikly a kid i dont like 2 admit it but i do belive if all the racers raced at there prime michael wood win
gerico123454 1 year ago
@gerico123454 I really have to disagree. Senna and Schumacher in the same car - it would be close but you'd find Senna starting from pole nearly all of the time and running away with the race imho. Schumacher had some very good cars for many seasons, with subservient #2 drivers. Senna had a fantastic car for 88/89 but that was it. In 1990, the Ferrari was just as good. In 91, the Williams was by far the better car.
mrtheoden 1 year ago 21
@mrtheoden the williams was the faster car but it wasnt reliable enough to win the championship though
mrmaranello44 9 months ago
@mrtheoden Schumacher outqualified Senna 8 of 16 GPs in 93 and he had inferior car to Senna.
Senna was beaten by his team mate in Suzuka 91 qualifying and outqualified the rookie Hakkinen by less than half tenth in Suzuka 93.
If he had Schumacher driving the same car as his, Senna would never beat him in Suzuka with a record like that.
arturcraft2 8 months ago
@arturcraft2 OH please. Firstly, learn some F1 history. In 93, Schumacher's Benneton had the works Ford v8. Not McLaren. They had a basic Ford engine that was worked on by a 3rd party (and had around 30-50bhp less). Senna and McLaren ONLY received the same engine as Benetton had around half way through the season. Do a search on the wiki for 1993 formula 1 season and check the team info on enginees.
mrtheoden 8 months ago
@arturcraft2 oh and Senna won 5 races that year, in an inferior car. To Schumacher's 1. Oh, and it was 8 races to 8 races for qualifying for Senna/Schumacher for 93. In most of the races where Schumacher qualified ahead of Senna, Senna was next on the grid, and usually a tenth of a second behind Schumacher in qualifying times. Go check the stats for yourself. Schumacher's car was NOT inferior to Senna's. Senna was simply the better driver who made absolute use of his car.
mrtheoden 8 months ago
@mrtheoden In 93, the qualifying battle was equal 8-8 and when Senna was ahead of Schumacher, the german was close too, the same way you said. How can you know for sure that Mclaren was inferior to Bennetton?
I'll repeat, in Suzuka 93, Senna beaten rookie Hakkinen by half tenth of a second, if we consider Schumacher faster than Mika, then Schumi would beat Senna with equal cars in that qualifying.
The reality is that we don't know which car was really the best.
arturcraft2 8 months ago
@arturcraft2 of course the MP4/8 was inferior to the B-193 : in term of aerodynamic (Byrne VS Oatley) , in term of chassis etc... Bernard Dudot claimed that Renault Spot has analysed that the best chassis was the B-193 and if it was not the advance in active suspension and the Renault, Williams would not be no1. Mp4/8 was designed lately for the Ford and Senna had during the season an HB-6 VS an HB-7.Then, he had the same engine as Benetton. + Add many active suspension pb for MP4/8
GTAGIS 2 months ago
@arturcraft2 you want exemples ? Monaco, Senna (2) and Andretti crashed, suspension going down at the wrong place ( software problems). Senna was beating the pole time of Prost. Same thing earlier at Imola. Senna lap at Barcelone was done with the front right active suspension out of order.Silverstone : huge problems with a car completely different to the private testing the week before without answer ! etc.. At Kyalami, Monaco, Suzuka, Senna could have done pole without problems
GTAGIS 2 months ago
@GTAGIS I had great time reading your comments. You live in phantasy world. Your making excuses all the time but I have those sessions and Senna had no problem at all in almost all of them. The "would haves" are quite pathetic. Schumacher just hammered Senna in the head in Silverstone's and Spa's qualifying. Senna had no car problem, no traffic and no error in his best lap. Also, claiming B-193 was the best aero car made me almost rofl
arturcraft2 2 months ago
@arturcraft2 You may have these sessions and be blind and deaf. And not looking to search what can help you to analyse what you haven't understood by just watching. Senna, Andretti have explained these problems of suspensions, which, on bums or kerbs, wheen occured, put the car impossible to drive. The reason of the crash of Senna at Ste Devote (in the straight !) crashes of Andretti & Senna at the Chicane du Port, at the last Chicane of Imola or Variante Alta for Senna
GTAGIS 2 months ago
@arturcraft2 By the way, I gave you so much information, that your answers proves that you are not intellectually honest. At Spa, where the aero of benetton was far beter that the MP4/8, Senna had wreckes on his side pod radiator which made him loose power during qualifying. on the race, he loose pace with hydraulics problems.
How did I also know about the front right suspension at Barcelone ?because I am searching (not like you, just watching ...)
GTAGIS 2 months ago
@GTAGIS wreckes on his side pod? nice one. I would keep this on the bag and use when needed. Schumacher can also make excuses because his fastest lap was very early and traffic didn' allow him to improve that time when the track was faster like Senna and the Williamses did. If Senna is so damn fast, why he and Hakkinen were almost on the same quaifying pace in Estoril and Suzuka. Why couldn't the magic man, "fastest driver ever" put a gap to Mika? What were the problems Senna had there?
arturcraft2 2 months ago
@arturcraft2 @Suzuka, Senna had almost no lap prior to the first qualifying and I do not remember exactly the reason, but remember that he has estimated that he could do the pole.For Saturday, the mechanics have put twice the fuel needed on the car, they haven't noticed or it has not been registered that the quantity for a set of flying lap was there. At Estoril, Senna who was in clash with Dennis & bad mood ( Williams or not ?), and haven't tested the modifs...
GTAGIS 2 months ago
@arturcraft2 ...was not at his best. Mika was very fast & Senna attempts in qualifying was not at the best time and had traffic. You would have noticed that Senna laps were done in an unusual way, having made 12 long before the end of the session and encountered traffic. You would also have noticed big improvement in MP4/8 , mainly AERO for the end of the season ( new nose, new end plates and diffuser ) look at the pace during the race in early laps
GTAGIS 2 months ago
@arturcraft2 And I never said that Schuey never had problems during the season . For instance, his problems at Montreal or Spa at the start due to the launch control.or his probable second place loose at Monaco . His 2nd place obtained at Imola, Montreal, 3rd at Magny-Cours etc..obtained on MP4/8 reliability problems
GTAGIS 2 months ago
@arturcraft2 by the way, why despite his amazing records, (which should be analysed in details, not in a raw fashion), Shum is not given as the best driver ever ? Even with large part of Scuderia behind him, always having different support, he just managed 0.1/0.2 front of Rubinho ? Why Mika never give him as the best ? Why Schum himself gives Senna as the best ? Why even Briatore gives Senna ?
GTAGIS 2 months ago
@GTAGIS If you look into Schumacher's poles and qualifyings in Suzuka, Spa.... you'll see that the gap to Rubens was much bigger. Schumi says Senna is the best because it's not pretty to self praise. Briatore understands nothing about motorsport and he and Schumi broke their relationship in a bad way after Benneton.
arturcraft2 1 month ago
@arturcraft2 Indeed for Suzuka & Spa. For Briatore, he said it also when Senna was alive.And in July 93, while being in discussion, Schumacher who of course didn't want Senna in the same team, protested. For the list of persons who certainly know F1 we can give : Dennis, Berger, Lauda, Hakineen, Raikoneen, Patrese, Ecclestone, Alonso , Trulli, Fisico, Symonds, Ascanelli, Nichols, Dudot, Hamilton, Montoya .....
GTAGIS 1 month ago
@arturcraft2 and Alesi. I heard Alesi myself, during a TV show, when he was asked about Schumacher being the best, he answered with severity that no! Senna was the best clearly, and that Michael, who was his friend, was an excellent driver, in a very good context, but Senna was obviously the best.
GTAGIS 1 month ago
@GTAGIS well, I respect opinions of Senna being the best even if I don't fully agree with it. (imo he was the best in agressiveness, passing, daring, making consistent error-free laps in qualifying). Anyway, do you have many onboard videos from Senna? I have his Suzuka's qualifying from 89,90,91. Do you have from other years?
arturcraft2 1 month ago
@arturcraft2 There are little onboard vids of Senna compare to what we can find in this f1 era.You can type AYRTON SENNA ONBOARD AT MONACO WITH LOTUS-HONDA'87. Please take attention at the wheels and the rail at the swimming pool. there also the flying lap at Jerez 90, Senna going 1 second faster than his prior time after the accident of Donnely and passing 2 slow cars by 190kmh difference according to Senna estimation. "Ayrton Senna Jerez 90 Qualy"
GTAGIS 1 month ago
@GTAGIS Yes, I already have those videos. They are very famous.
arturcraft2 1 month ago
@arturcraft2 I also would like to share a story of Senna with you, given by Pat Symonds. You can type Senna, Dallas , Pat Symonds 1984 and you will find it."Dallas was what I would call an ?old-fashioned? North American street circuit, delineated with concrete blocks.It was a very tricky circuit, and bumpy enough to make even Monaco look smooth: the drivers literally had to fight their cars all the way round as they skipped and jumped from bump to bump."
GTAGIS 1 month ago
@GTAGIS There is a pole lap from Senna in Phoenix 91 which the street track is exactly the way you described. Extremely bumpy, concrete walls and quite some fast corners.
arturcraft2 1 month ago
@arturcraft2 I remember during the race, Ayrton hit the wall, and then later retired because of the damage. When he eventually made it back to the pits, he didn?t seem to understand how he could have hit the wall. It seemed to come as a complete shock to him that he had hit the wall, and his immediate reaction was ?I know I didn?t make a mistake ? the wall must have moved.?"
GTAGIS 1 month ago
@arturcraft2 Remember, we were talking about a twenty tonne concrete block here, but he was so insistent that he persuaded me to walk round the circuit and take a look.
"When I did so, the wall had indeed moved ? somebody had clearly clipped the previous block and in doing so, displaced the next one by only about 4cm. Instead of the transition from block to block being smooth, a 4cm difference had caught the rear wheel, broken it and punctured the tyre."
GTAGIS 1 month ago
@arturcraft2 "
That was when it really came home to me, the precision to which he was driving, and made me think he was a bit special? And remember this was a guy in his first season of F1, straight out of F3?"
GTAGIS 1 month ago
@arturcraft2 There was also another amazing story that happened with Ayrton, if I am correct in 1993. Senna was complaining about an engine, and said that something was wrong and gave an expected estimation of laps where the engine would expire. engineers found nothing on telemetry and Senna still insisting. Finally, Ron Dennis gave the order : change that engine, so Senna would be in good psychological mood. Finally, Senna was correct when they tested that engine back in England
GTAGIS 1 month ago
@arturcraft2 i used to have many vids of F1 and between us, I do enjoy more watching old F1 than the homosexualised stuff that progressively appeared when Lords of driving finally disappeared. Although I do like some of the drivers of today, there is a trend without any moral opposition that made the F1 to much easy : flat kerbs, easy corners/circuits, stupid technical and sportive rules, large asphalt runways , anti stalling systems , very difficult to retire on a mistake
GTAGIS 1 month ago
@GTAGIS @arturcraft2 you cannot even make a difference on corners, like Senna made at swimming pool. On that corner only, Senna was more than half second faster than Prost ! For interesting stuffs, you can go on the youtube account of "ayrtonsennaonline" "ayrtonsennaonlinenow" "ClassicF1Vids1" You can also go to pvat34 dot com It's in French but you'll find interesting stuffs in different languages English, French, Italian ..races and qualifying, docs on drivers, teams...great
GTAGIS 1 month ago
@GTAGIS thanks a lot. I already was subscribed to "ayrtonsennaonlinenow" and "ClassicF1Vids1". I'll check the french site, thanks a lot for that.
arturcraft2 1 month ago
@GTAGIS I think we started with the wrong foot. I completely agree with everything you said there. I hate flat kerbs, circuits without challenging corners and this kind of "easy to drive" cars of nowadays. I much prefer F1 of late 80's and early 90's.
F1 today is really faggotish, if you excuse the expression.
arturcraft2 1 month ago
@arturcraft2 Yes, I agree with all you said, f1 pretty much sucks nowadays. BUT! Flat kerbs is a must I would say. Just watch Hakkinen's crash in Adelaide 1995, and you'll see that thos kerbs that looked like mountains, were very bad for him, because they threw the car in the air, where it won't slow down. As a result he went very fast into the wall, hit his head on the sterring wheel and cockpit, and swallowed his tongue while he was knocked uncosncious.
NOXXism 1 month ago
@NOXXism how about moving all walls very far from the corners?
arturcraft2 1 month ago
@arturcraft2 Well, sometimes that can't be done. For example, the infamous Tamburello. When Berger crashed there the next day senna and berger went there to see what could be done to improve the safety of the corner. But they found that behind the concrete wall there was a small river so they couldn't make a bigger run-off area. And next time someone crashed there, it was fatal. And you'll see when webber flew his car in Valencia, the wall was already very far from the track.
NOXXism 1 month ago
@NOXXism I think Alboreto crashed there in 91 but survived. Just for the fact
beqa16v 3 weeks ago
@arturcraft2 You want Mika Hakineen about Silverstone ? he could not, neither him or the team, explain what happens with the car. Just tap on youtube "F1 British GP 1993 Mika Hakkinen Interview" by the way, have you seen the huge difference between benetton and McLaren ?have you seen the difference between the flaps? Senna complaining about huge problems of balance. At this point, this is obvious for any one who really knows F1(not like you) that this is a car problem
GTAGIS 2 months ago
@arturcraft2 At Magny-Cours, it is also obvious. Schuey passing Senna at the acceleration on the straight, Senna having problems like he had loose 1st gear and have therefore slow acceleration. Andretti qualifying very bad , and during private testing on Monday at the same place, like having a different car and setting very good time. etc..on contrary to you, I can give things, which prove that I have searched and not just stopped on raw results.
GTAGIS 2 months ago
@arturcraft2 By the way, Rory Byrne design ( which for you knowledge is a huge improvement of Migeot & Postlethwaite concept) was then adopted by everyone : high cone nose, giving less Cx and more downforce grip ! Since Mclaren loose Gordon Murray and Nichols, aerodynamics was not their best! Especially it was taking more and more importance. Just look at the difference between the MP4/12 and the Mp4/13(Newey) to catch the point.
GTAGIS 2 months ago
@GTAGIS If you ever read about car aero books, you would know that low noses are always the best. Other types of noses would only be better options under some regulation restrictions. FYI, Byrne is not even an aero guy. He's usually refered as a designer but that's vague because he doesn't interfeer in the aerodynamics department. If Mclaren had inferior aero than Bennetton than they made magic in Suzuka because Hakkinen and Senna were some 3/4 tenths faster than Benneton there
arturcraft2 2 months ago
@arturcraft2 Another point, because I know a lot this period and most of Schum fans do not : they give me Monaco as an exemple of Schum supposedly best perf than Senna . Senna was on a non stop strategy and tis is the reason that Prost and Schum where bombarding. Senna finaly stopped during the race, because of security. Despite his crash in Thursday, and lack of laps, injured, Saturday he was about to beat Prost on qualifying. If you just look at final results you ignore that.
GTAGIS 2 months ago
@mrtheoden i couldnt agree more with you, read my recent comment! dont forget that Senna was 34 when he died and was never had felt more fit, he easily had at least another 6 years in him and in my opinion and also the opinion of experts he was going to win another 2 maybe 3 more titles... For me he was thee best F1 driver of all time, michael would have taken him all the way but would have never been as successful as he already is.. its a pity Bruno isnt a quarter as good :-/
tmurphy83 8 months ago
@mrtheoden lol another Senna fan that cannot get over the fact that Schumi has more titles, you cannot say who is better unless you get them when they are both at their peaks and in the same car, so we will never know the answer to that so get over it...
celpabedn 8 months ago
@celpabedn more titles? do you remember how utterly superior that 2000 - 2004 ferrari car was? lol, senna was beating williams cars even when they had the ultimate driving aid, active suspension. Im not saying mclaren werent a great team but winning a race with a Tolemon car was like climbing everest in a t-shirt...
tmurphy83 8 months ago
@tmurphy83 so you are saying Ferrari was more reliable? LOL, Schumi joined Ferrari when body parts were flying away every race and it was normal, if he did the Senna,Prost, thing, lets go from one company to another, he would have won even more, Mclaren still holds the most race wins in a season, Michael pulled races even when Ferrari was not competitive and he did it on wet and pit stops. I am a Michael fan, but i will never act like a Senna fan, claiming without proof!
celpabedn 8 months ago
@celpabedn dude...Schumi hasn't yet had EVEN a podium (forget a win) on his Mercedes now! Senna won GPs with clearly inferior cars (Lotus, McClaren Ford). Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure who was the more competent pilot. And Schumi always had a clear No.2 team mate when he was "dominating"!!
rapidtranq 7 months ago 8
@rapidtranq How old is Schumi now and how old was Senna when he did that?
celpabedn 7 months ago
@celpabedn yep sure its the age thats holding him back...
rapidtranq 7 months ago
@rapidtranq So when Michael Jordan came back it wasnt his age but he sucked on a different team and slower reflexes and lower muscle tone did nor prevent him right?
When you will be Michaels age compare yourself when you were 24 ok?
Have a good one
celpabedn 7 months ago
@celpabedn
mansell was champion with 39
connected1914 7 months ago
@connected1914 Mansell had the most technologically advanced F1 car of all time, which was seconds faster than the rest of the field. Also, Mansell did not leave for three years before 1992.
UltimateWheelman 4 months ago
@rapidtranq
comparing F1 seasons from 1991 (or what have you) and 2011 /Senna and Schumacher is like comparing Bruce Lee and Wladimir Klitschko or a street legal car to an F1 car. It's just impossible. Spin the clock back 20 years it was more about the driver, but today it's just impossible to win without the right material.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Schumacher is better then Senna, nor the other way around - you just can't compare them. And you should accept what Schumi achieved in F1
66Morti66 7 months ago
@rapidtranq Schumi won races with beneton ... also he is very old today
dks11000 7 months ago
@rapidtranq I also have to add that when Senna was looking anothere opportunity to run season 1994 if Prost would block again backed with Renault, he was thinking to Ferrari (Schum get the Senna type contract that Di Montezemello has prepared for Ayrton ) and also Benetton. In july 93, Schumacher scared and said that "Senna would destroy the mood of Benetton" Briatore, enemy of Senna (but recognized that Senna better than Schuey) wanted him of course but no more than 15M$
GTAGIS 2 months ago
@rapidtranq Schumacher is 42. This is not a fair comparison. The 94 Beneton was an inferior car and he was doing magic with it. Was watching onbards when he was sliding that car into the chicane at imola 1994. Truly stunning. Call him a cheat or something else but he was brilliant and absolutely ready to dethrone Senna.
beqa16v 3 weeks ago
@celpabedn
claiming without proof?
championships r ur proofs?
u play games? play with noobs and play with masters and u will see different results...
what about monaco 1984? you can watch the full rece on yt... at least he didnt need to cheat when he had a crap car...
man...numbers are nothing when u play with noobs
shumacher sure is the best, after senna.
connected1914 7 months ago
@mrtheoden As well as in 92 and 93, specially 93, until the last 3 races when they received the same factory Ford engine that Benneton had all season long.
JONICRACHATLEITAO 6 months ago
@mrtheoden To be fair, most all-time greats had #2 drivers, including Senna (remember that Prost was only his teammate for two of the ten years Senna was in F1). Also, Senna would for sure beat Schumi in qualifying, but IMO the races would be much closer. Senna's "Fast lap-Slow lap-Fast lap-Slow lap" approach wouldn't work with Michael, and he wouldn't be able to build a gap early and maintain it to the finish. As for the cars, Only three of Schumi's cars were dominant. The rest were good/ok.
UltimateWheelman 4 months ago