Martin Amis Christopher Hitchens a conversation about Antisemitism and Saul bellow Part 4

[johnbenjamin12]

God. These two Gentlemen are impeccable.

[GaiusIuliusTaberna]

It should be pointed out how virulent antisemitism is on this site, I'm amazed at the number of conspiracy theorist that readily engage in Jew baiting sometimes under a thin veil of anti globalist rhetoric peppered with the most base conspiracy theories, (almost always directed at prominent Jewish bankers and politicians)

[Chaos876]

How dare you even compare the two.

Palestinians are far from "victims", in fact a lot of them lead better lives than most Arabs ALL AROUND THE WORLD.

Try looking at the lives of people in Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon and so on. Try measuring their poverty against "Palestinian hardship" which isn't even close to what Jews had to bear throughout history in general (especially in Arab states), and prior and consecutively after the declaration of independence.

They'd have Jews dead if they could.

[Fukkutah]

Anti-Semitism is voicing disagreement, dispute or questioning of any Jewish historical, political, economic point of view. It is also bringing up facts, or voicing criticism of Israel, its occupation, settlements or treatment of Palestinians. In fact, not being anit-Semitic is never to second-guess and to be in total agreement and appeasement of every idea, historical event, political or military actions that present Jews and Israelis as the victims of persecution, hatred or terrorism.

[llewohnewo]

@Chaos876

Actually, no. You have no evidence to say all Palestinians want Jews dead. Palestines are vistims: at least 4 times as many Palestinians have died as a result of the Palestine/ Israel conflict. Jews have suffered terribly, but that cannot justify what's happening in Palestine.

[Chaos876]

@llewohnewo

No, not all Palestinians want Jews dead. But the vast majority is convinced if all Jews were dead the world would have been an easier place to live in. Mind you, so do many Jews about Arabs.

Education system is brainwashing children (look it up if you don't believe me), population is a prisoner of their leaders who take advantage of their poverty and direct their rage on the "enemy", while they could quite easily just prosper. They choose to be filled with hatred, instead of living.

[QwidgyboMan]

@Chaos876

Palestinians are certainly victims, by any rational standard. Only an idiot tries to deny that by juxtaposing Jewish or Arabic suffering.

[richardcadbury]

Those whiteys with the "we are all Hezbollah now" placards weren't antisemitic, in my opinion. Much more likely they opposed various actions taken by Israel and they found a particularly nasty way of expressing themselves. You can call them very unpleasant, certainly, and very ignorant, but antisemitic?

[Daoak28]

Hezbolla is an openly antisemitic organization. I agree that if they don't know what their placards say but you must wonder if people can be THAT ignorant.

[whalefish83]

I like the way that we apply weston-socio political tags to peoples across the world as if that proves anything. it only proves that you are the product of subtle brainwashing. I say subtle because you probably view yourself as above average intelligence or you wouldnt be commenting here.

[Daoak28]

To call an apple and apple is not brainwashing. To call an orange an apple because you were retold it was an orange is brainwashing. Brainwashing is exhibited by most if not all nationalists, which i don't perceive hitchens to be.

[Fukkutah]

I like that: Openly anti-Semitic. Why they must be nuts, those Hezbollah lunatics to want to kick the Zionist invaders out of their land. They must be crazy because they want to defend their people against Zionist genocidal maniacs. They must be delusional to hate Israel for killing their babies and wives and destroying their country. Don't they know that Jews have been permitted by their god to commit genocide. The chosen vs gentile equation .. didn't they learn about history in school?

[Daoak28]

Zionist invaders?

Hezbolla is a lebanese shiite group. Israel resides in none of it's land as acknowledged by the UN. Yet they want to destroy Israel because it is a non Islamic presence in the middle east. Before there was Israel there was Islamic dominance in the middle east where jews and christians were second class citizens. Now they would like to recreate that dominance by destroying Israel and either killing all the jews or subordinating them. And you talk of Chosen vs gentile?

[Fukkutah]

Zionist invaders is not the right description .. Zionist war criminals, mass murderers and land thieving thugs is a better start at describing them. Israel invaded Lebanon headed by notorious war criminal Ariel Sharon 1980s (sabra and shatila), they occupied Southern Lebanon until kicked out from most of it by Hezbollah. Attacked Qana hitting UN shelters and killing scores of women and children there. 2006 destroyed Lebanon and invaded the south again.

[Daoak28]

No point in arguing with you. For you any jew or christian that has equal rights and self determination is an abomination. While the palestinian population grows tremendously you cry genocide and while the middle east is 99.9% controlled by muslims who treat jews, christains, bahais and others as second class citizens you scream aparthied and discrimination. You're a joke.

[Fukkutah]

Obviously you know very little about the details of the conflict in the Middle East and attempting to turn this into a personal matter, or you're purposely spinning the facts. Muslims and Christians in Palestine suffer tremendously under the same Zionist supremacist policies. A great number of Christians, as well as Muslims have left Palestine to North/South America and Europe to escape Jewish persecution. Jews in Muslim lands, however small minority, are represented in Parliaments. RESEARCH!

[Daoak28]

Amazing,

In your own statement you exposed your ignorance.

"Jews in Muslim lands, however small minority,are represented in Parliaments."

Why are jews such a small minority? Because most of them fled to Israel after persecution from muslims in muslims countries. It is actually in Israel that muslims and christians palestinians are represented in the parliament. They say things on the knesset floor that if jews said in any muslim country they would be hanged and have been hanged for.

[Fukkutah]

Jews weren't persecuted in Muslim lands. Jews in Egypt, Iran, Turkey, Syria, Morocco, Tunisia, Bahrain, Yemen etc enjoyed an elitist life similar to how they lived/live in America and Europe of today. Once Israel was created on stolen lands of Palestine over a massacred Palestinian population, those Jews sided with their aggressor brethren and most left to their "promised land". The ones who remained still enjoy the status that average Muslims in their own country can only dream of.

[dibaterman]

@Fukkutah

I've never tracked Jews in Muslim lands but I know the Coptic Pope or Patriarch was begging the Coptics that had left Egypt to return back and said essentially they must turn the other cheek in reference to the persecution they face.The copt's like the Arabs in the Philistines fail to realize they were conquered, they do have a right to fight back. I just wish America would either get out of there or pick a bloody side and support that one.

Point though is that Copts are persecuted.

[gtalcstories]

THough i understand your point, hypothetically, if ppl walked around with placards saying " we are all kkk now" would u say that they are just very unpleasant and very ignorant or racist as well.

In my opinion if they wanted to express their opposition to israels actions they could have done so in numerous other ways. But Hezbollah is a very extreme organisation and if they choose to express their support for Hezbollah they should be taken at their word.

[richardcadbury]

hmmm. your definitely swaying my mind towards agreeing with you and amis.