An Atheist's Definition of a "Christian"

[legalrule]

Is this a joke? Hitchen tore the lady apart in the debate!

[garrettgh22]

"The Bible is the only book of absolute truth" written on the screen above his shoulder the entire time... Yet he is standing up for this lady who DOESNT BELIEVE what this "truthful" book is telling its followers. . . pretty two faced here

[ShrapnelSong]

@garrettgh22 I don't think he's standing up for her, I think he was using Hitchens' response to condemn her. If this is for fundamentalist christians, than the sign on the wall, and the negative response taken from Hitchens' against the liberal woman would make sense.

[FSUjonnyD]

This wouldn't be the first time an atheist has known the Bible better than so-called "Christians".

[mcgra8bc]

@FSUjonnyD Atheists usually read the bible. That's the difference. Reading the bible and other "holy" books is the quickest way to become an atheist.

[FSUjonnyD]

@mcgra8bc

I agree. It certainly is the only way to get to the real substance of the Bible. Usually Christians stop at the whole "Jesus loves you, and that's all you need to know.", thing. I never knew Red Lobster and GQ Magazine were on the same hit list as homosexuality until a former Christian had the nerve to reveal it to me. When I was Five, all I knew was something about an invisible man in the sky, and that sounded laughable. Once you actually pick up the book, it's absolutely hysterical.

[mcgra8bc]

@FSUjonnyD Hysterical and appalling.

[kendrawhisp]

@bary1234 This dude is using this to insult the liberal modern christian. Saying that an atheist knows more about being christian than she does.

[Hufflewaffle]

Sloppy thinking - you mean, for instance like:

"The Bible is the only book of absolute truth"

Hmm.. I wonder where these people get these sloppy ideas!

[aguteempasil]

"sloppy thinking". LOL

[macroheart]

@Gearhead142 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any fasely; and be content with your wages. Luke 3:14

Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

(Jesus)This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. John 15:12

Friend, God and I both love you and we just want you to come to Him to see His goodness

[FreeBritain1]

Oh, I'm posting on the wrong video. I've not watched this one as yet. Sorry!

[FreeBritain1]

118 thumbs down? Really? Gosh! Lol, that's 'awful'!

[FreeBritain1]

Very good (and I learnt a little also, which is always nice :-)).

[JackKangaroo1]

The craziest idea about any deity is in thinking they exist in the first place.

[berner]

I think liberal christians are just people who want to believe in god and that god is what's right in their mind with the world they see it. They don't want to believe he's an iron fisted, tough love ruler as the old testament says he is.

I guess evolution really IS possible

[farizzal]

I like how he didn't explain why he thought Hitchens was wrong.

[HardforJesus]

"...where people get all these crazy ideas about God." As if the very concept of a god isn't crazy.

[13shadowwolf]

As an atheist, how am I supposed to tell which one of the "crazy" ideas about god are really the "crazy" ones? There is nothing but dis-concordant argumentation over which christian faith is the correct one. The catholics dismiss the protestants, who in turn badmouth the evangelicals, who put down the mormons, etc. How are any one of you arrogant enough to be the "final decision" on what your god really wants you to do?

[ZeWaffles]

no religion is free from fault and sin but im a Christian all the way =D Christianity is based on the grounds of forgiveness and love the Old Testament are religious stories and historical accounts before Christ where God passed judgement a lot more freely and thats where the majority of killing and so on is but Jesus then changed all that because he's totally badass

[MsMrNoface]

Right, if you're into Christianity you have to accept the impossible. And take it as a miracle. Welcome to it. The alternative is to deal with reality. Oh no!!!

[VILeonidasV]

most christians are that liberal christian. all my friends and most family are that way and I live in one of the many bible belts in southern america. what does that tell you? christianity is dying in the modern world, or at the very least, being....Liberalized.

[tommy3lions]

I would love to have heard this conversation.

[naatee]

If the Bible is metaphorical how are Christians certain that the story of Jesus is literal?

[GodLovesUs100]

Lol, wow, I never thought I would agree with Chris and may he be healed of his cancer and lead in the paths of righteousness in Jesus' name as a testimony to the power of God,

[Thek213]

...He has cancer?

[superxbetatester]

wtf, seriously!!! if we are atheist, why wont you people stop bothering us atheists, if we dont want to believe, we dont want to believ!e!! we want to find our own methods and our own theories of how the world is created. bacause i totally go against the belief that: we dont know what was before the big bang, OH! GOD DID IT. that is the lazy side of science: religion. if we want other things let us be, because even if we come up with a theory of how the bible is a fairy tale, you would just say:

[zxzrp0]

See, Atheist are'nt bad, they just have a HUGE problem with Faith.

[Elisabetta611]

In my very unimportant opinion, faith is a personal matter. Neither rabid atheists like Hitchens and Dawkins nor fanatical Christians have any sway when it comes to my faith. I'm a Christian who has atheists and pagans among her best friends. I do not try to convert them and they don't try to convert me. Tolerance, ya know?

[JesseBochekTV]

The only definition of a true Christian should be: One who loves everyone despite their flaws.

Simple as that.

[zubestr]

@JesseBochekTV no that would be a caring person your way off base

[JesseBochekTV]

@zubestr

Christianity is a religion based off of love. It's just contorted into a group of wackjobs being hypocritical at the moment. At least, the ones being completely public about their faith.

[zubestr]

@JesseBochekTV just because its "based off of love" doesnt mean it is love and goodness

[Gearhead142]

@JesseBochekTV no , "Christianity is a religion based off love" its based off murder , control,and taking what u want and kill all the poeple who dont think the same as u

[JesseBochekTV]

@Gearhead142

No, that's actually a prejudice you impose upon Christians. I'm not starting an argument here, but if you looked into it a little more, you'd see Christianity's about love and not about starting wars and killing. Name one instance within the past century where Christians went on killing sprees. And if they did, well, honestly, that's not even following the 10 commandments at that point.

[JesseBochekTV]

@Gearhead142

I will also add, the prejudice you have against Christianity is the exact same as the prejudice that's putting the harmless Muslim in America through hell right now.

[hazza3]

Lol well the man has a point about her not being a real christian.

I say im catholic but people reckon im not. Oh well, i say what i am and know it, they say what i am and dont bother to know me.

Whos right and whos wrong about me is a fail towards those who dont even bother to reason with me.

Where did that come from?

Anyway, Right or Wrong. Its how it affects us as people and how we prefer to live our own lives and not tell others how to live theirs.

[cheesyflames]

"Bringing all these crazy ideas into our churches"

Does he mean like the illogical concept of God?

[originosity]

If you say Jesus didn't perform miracles and they may just be metaphors for the power of God, what reason is their to call yourself a Christian? Isn't that like saying Jesus Christ wasn't the son of God? I thought believing in Jesus Christ as the son of god was the cornerstone of Christianity?

[DanceInYourRoom]

@originosity the resurrection of Jesus Christ is actually the cornerstore of Christianity. If Jesus Christ never raised from the dead, then all the beliefs towards him wouldn't matter. The miracles aren't as important as the resurrection from the dead.

[DanceInYourRoom]

@SuckGently satan and god don't exist, but the sentiment is well noted.

[shockofgod]

Hitchens called Mother Theresa a whore I am not making this up go google it.

Hitches is very bitter.

[Horus8305]

I don't believe in the literal Santa Claus, but simply in a metaphorical one and what he can teach us by way of allegory and example. That is why I say I am a persecuted practitioner of my faith when I am repeatedly arrested for breaking into homes on Christmas Eve to deposit gifts and eat cookies. Does this Secularism know no bounds!.

[JanusChristIsRisen]

It sure shows much about how our society has evolved when an atheist schools a Christian about what Christianity really is.

[DepricatedZero]

It's oddly cool to see - presumably this is a christian, judging by the way he presents it - an in-context and respectful use of such a quote.

[atheistnarutofan]

Christians: : one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ

lol, i believe the teachings are real (i.e. exist in reality) doesn'tmean i follow or obey all of them. would that make me a atheistic christian?

if this is the main idea from which the idea that "i don't have to think he is god" comes from, than it is a very meaningless word an Hitchens is correct.

[Ebzhent]

@TheOptimistPrime I'm an atheist. I would say that statement is very accurate. The word 'spiritual' isn't offensive in the slightest to me, though it seems 'atheism' is an "extremely offensive word" to you.

The way I see it, what you believe (in spite of evidence) is none of my business. When you make it my business through preaching, social 'reform' and laws, I'll happily address your views and bring up my own.

[franksui]

@mazklassa1

The "sloppy thinking" this pastor is talking about is the "Liberal Christian" thinking, e.g. holding the title of a "Christian" without believing in the Death and Resurrection of Jesus. Because there are lots among churches actually don't believe all that, but they're still "Christians" in title. The pastor was trying to suggest that "Even a well-known atheist knows what the fundamental Christian belief should be. There's therefore no reason why so many Christians are so confused."

[Boxcutter7]

@holio84 Yeah, and don't have to pay taxes on the profits they make while buying nice cars, houses, boats, RVs...

[ashdavcz]

Can someone please explain to me how you can be a Christian if you don't believe all of those things?

[Packard034]

...So I take it he's agreeing with Christopher?

He placed the emphasis so heavily on Hitchen's being an atheist that it was hard to decipher. Yes, "sloppy thinking about God" indeed. Which is why Dawkins argues that the fundamentalists hide among the smokey mirrors of moderates within religions. When I had my faith before leaving it, I didn't take such important 'eye-witness testimony' (as I thought it was) of Jesus' resurrection as figurative!

The "absolute truth" depends on the individual.

[superheltenroy]

I must partly agree with him, though. A very few of the things Jesus says in the New testament are nice pieces of teachings. If you then go on to thinking that Jesus was knowingly deceiving people with the other crap and the con artistry, just to make a better world, then you would probably hold the opinion of Jesus being a great guy, like you can with any philosopher. In this manner, you could call yourself a christian in much the same way as one can call oneself a marxist. But not religious.

[funknotik]

Wow did this guy just disprove his own religion?

[aituk]

there is no interpretation of the bible, believe it word for word, or don't. If you cherry pick pieces from it you treat it as good as a politician.

[sophilianate]

I would love to see this man take on Christopher Hitchens in an actual debate.

.....I wonder who would win..

"There probably isn't a god, so stop worrying and enjoy your life"

[d3vall]

@VictorEchoNovember79 Alright Victor, since Jesus is God or an avatar, how was he a sacrificed? Or I can go further and ask you if Jesus knew his destiny and needn't faith from birth, in the Christian respect, what makes him human at all? The gospel has been spread- the waves have hit the wall and are bouncing back. You want to spread the gospel, help it make sense to me.

[VictorEchoNovember79]

@d3vall He was crucified surely you have heard that story, thats how he was sacraficed. He was human because he could die in said crucifixtion.

[d3vall]

@VictorEchoNovember79 I have heard the story, but Jesus is on the cross making dinner plans with the man next to him- there is no sacrifice in his death. He already knows his purpose in life, he's exempt from judgement, his purpose is predetermined, he's unrestricted to the physical laws of the world, faith has no use to him or is inapplicable because he is God incarnate after all.. what I'm getting at he represents everything that ISN'T human (in Christianity) and death has no meaning to a God.

[robkelly100]

@d3vall your missing the ultimate point of his crucifixion.. when crucified, Jesus bore the wrath of God and punishment for our sins, which is seperation from God. this was the worst part and most sacrificial part of His act of atonement. It wasnt the nails or the beating, it was the spiritual humiliation of bearing sin and seperation from God that was the punishment

[d3vall]

@robkelly100 If Jesus is God incarnate- how is he separated, if he's not- how does he perform miracles? "Spiritual Humiliation" doesn't make any sense to me- especially considering he personally is sinless. Most argue Jesus did not descend into hell- which often is "separation from God" and likely your stance- but that's based on the Apostle's Creed... and Jesus says " today you will be with me in paradise." The logic is circular from the beginning. Can you believe in Jesus and keep your sins?

[VictorEchoNovember79]

Ya heres the thing. I am a christian and hitchens defined exactly what it is to be a christian. Believing Christ was the messiah and accepting his sacrifice for your salvation. Not only that you are then charged with what is known as "The great commision" Which is to take this truth (the gosphel) and spread it far and wide to all God's children. <------ That is what it means to be a Christian, if you arn't doing this, you're doing it wrong.

[adamtequalsgreat]

Either the Bible is the ultimate source of truth or it is not. Either Jesus was divine or he was not. Either you believe that both of those statements are true or you do not. So....

You're either a Christian or you're not.

[NegativeNick]

@adamtequalsgreat i get a kick out of the fact that the pastor doesn't realize hitchens is right for attacking true christians

[toelesshoe]

Hitchens is right, if you don't accept the entire delusion, you'll sound foolish.

[mrx0066600]

@toelesshoe

They'll ultimate sound foolish either way I believe.

[annata12]

WE also have come along way since those times and we have better morals now! Gender equality, we don't condone genocide, abolishing of slavery! You will not find a biblical argument against those things, without having to justify all the parts that clearly condone such acts!

[annata12]

Yeah really, but only if you pick and choose, the bible has a lot of horseshit in it and it isn't necessary to teach anything particularly from the bible, which isn't written elsewhere. Even earlier scriptures like Aesop's Fables or the Confuzius teach some of the same values and morals without all the baggage religions comes in!

[Atheistbatman]

people get their crazy ideas about god from the bible.

[DexterRufus]

To philhunter2005,

Don't think you got his point; Greg Laurie was agreeing w/ Mr. Hitchens in this one thing: That if you call yourself a "Christian" but don't believe that the Bible is thee Word of God, that Jesus died for our sins; etc, then you're NOT a Christian! The woman minister was deceiving herself becuz she still wanted to label herself "Christian" but refused to believe in the basic tenants of the Faith. Mr. Hitchens gave a reality check: You are NOT really a Christian after all!

[alejandronoe]

Im anti-religious person as hard as you can be but i would not say that the bible is full of shit there are something that are good others that are bad and others that are worst but there are some ideas worth reading

[philhunter2005]

Of course, as a literary piece there are some highly recommended reading in there. As long as you dont take it as divine, infallible god inspired words obviously.

[RunFasterPussycat]

wow even the quotes of hitchens can be used to polarize christianity.

[gallus1]

As clever as Hitch is, i'm certain he'd agree that the best weapon we have against the evils of religion, is the mouth of the theist. If anyone knows christians with doubts of faith, send them here and they'll soon have no doubt......virus-free in 88 seconds. God B.less

[padraigomairtin]

Great video. It demonstrates that there is only one form of meaningful christianity: Christian fundamentalism. Anbody who believes that christianity and liberty are compatible are deluding themselves.

[MultiUniv3rsal]

Always the stupid christians trying to lure in fishes with the promise of intellect. As usual none to be found.

[automaticSOM]

Wow. A christian using christopher hitchens as his basis for arguement - never thought I would see the day.

[claudiaxander]

please give yhis 5 stars so we can all just draw a line in the rationalist sand, i hate people who kinda believe something, no matter what it is. a true scientist may doubt everything to varying degrees but whishy washy religious types just give unwarented power to unelected unworthy leaders and powerbrokers around the world who are licking there lips at the idea of a fire and brimstone final reckoning. so please wake up and smell the coffee or Mr Hitchens fine Earl Grey laced with rum! Cheers!

[yRegal]

I like how atheists and actual Christians are both clear on the spinelessness and cowardess and the most of all the intellectual and logical contradiction of the moderate or "liberal" Christian.

[SockbatReplica]

Yes the "liberal" Christian is too much about concensus building they don't understand the idea of irreconsilable opposites. That's why Hitchens prefers debating people like Paster Douglas Wilson because he's dealing with someone who really believes this stuff.

[therealpauljones]

I don't understand this... Why are they applauding? Is the tone in which you repeat a statement now somehow enough of a substitute for quoting it out of context? Can you just repeat the cogent atheist arguments in a childish voice with a smug expression and make everyone in a room think you're all in on some joke that isn't available to non believers? He could honestly have said Hitchens is wrong because cluck cluck cluck bagaaaaak and I'd stuggle to see a meaningful distinction.

[captainpiepants]

He's agreeing with Hitchens. See that screen behind him? His smug expression is for the liberal so called christian. What's wrong with the picture is that Hitchens is making the point a christian should. Indeed, the joke musn't be available to you.

[therealpauljones]

@captainpiepants Righto, point taken. I thought he was promulgating liberial Christianity. I get it now, though I wouldn't have been surprised if he were just railing against Hitchens even with that screen behind him. It's not like an argument needs to make sense for the religious, it just needs to be put in earnest; the argument from faith by definition. Also the way he says Heeyitchens makes me want to remove my eyes with a corkscrew :D

[Reid573]

How can he scoff in this manner whilst standing in front of a screen which declares that "The Bible is the only book of absolute truth"?

The irony must have escaped the audience

[Wallyrus]

ummm...that IS what it means to be a Christian.

[RevDrRussell]

Even satan knows who belongs to God and who doesn't. Interesting. Good video!

[FlyingFree333]

You can't be a CHRISTian if you don't believe in CHRIST you fool. How more fucking plain does it need to be?

You moderates are ridiculous, you see how insane most of the crap in the bible is but rather than do the rational thing and toss it, you jump through any hoops and twist your reasoning so you can still call yourself a christian while not believing most of it. How appropriate you call yourselves apologists because you truly are sorry excuses.

[automaticSOM]

@FlyingFree333

My thoughts exactly. In for a penny, in for a pound.Theres no point in cherry picking your way through the bible - you either believe it or you dont. That said though, creationists really do annoy me.

[SockbatReplica]

Not to mention if Jesus was really telling people to give all their possessions to the poor and follow him than it is a truely wicked thing he is saying if he is not the son of god. I mean if there was a preacher nowadays telling his following to get rid of all their possessions and to follow him and that the world was coming to an end what's the first thought that enters your mind: suicide cult!

[automaticSOM]

Sockbatreplica

Indeed - and in the days of Jesus there would have been nobody left to make a living for the wives of those who followed him.

He also "forgave" sins that had caused other people injury, not himself. What if I claimed to repudiate the "sins" of a serial killer in America? Its ridiculous. Only the victims should be able to meaningfully forgive.

[SockbatReplica]

Remember to be angry with someone is to commit murder in your heart and to look at a woman with lust is to commit adultery in your heart. If you don't repent for these instances of thought crime and accept Jesus you'll go to hell. How many serial killers on death row are christian now because they were told they will be forgiven by Jesus? So if being angry is the same as murder and Jesus will forgive even a serial killer? How does not one regress into moral relativisim beleiving this?