A final parting statement.If we are aware of the process the ego united with the self sees it's self as the center of the universe.This is alluded to in the Upanishads."He sees,but he can't be seen; he hears but can't be heard;he thinks but he can't be thought of;he perceives but he can't be perceived.Besides him, there is no one who sees, no one who hears, no one who thinks,and no one who perceives. It is this self of yours that is the inner controller, the immortal. All besides this is grief."
"The Creator DID NOT create religion, man did in his shame to cover himself from his sins against 'A Sovereign Creator'"
This claim requires evidence, without which I have no reason to trust any belief system. Maybe I need a new channel with a new name. It was created in a time when I instantly ran to Atheism for comfort when I felt hurt/betrayed by religion. If you have other question please ask them here as long as Wayman doesn't mind.
"Judaism misses 'the mark' of The Abrahamic Covenant and when They returned from Babylon They totally obliterated The Mosaic Covenant"
This is more or less the claim of the Samaritans (The Keepers) that the Jews changed Judaism and I don't doubt that it was not changed. The Jews claim that the Samaritans are not real Israelites. Who is telling the truth? Overall it doesn't matter, I can enjoy both for what they are.
Don't forget the Sola Scriptura Jews....The Karaites.
OJ is not monolithic. It's not just laws, there many different sects. While they all may follow Mosaic Laws they are very different. Yeshivish OJ is very bookish. Chasidim are very very spiritual. Even at that there are differences between Lubavitch, Satmar, Breslov, Ger, etc.
OJ is very colorful in many ways even though it may seem very boring.
@Christianizers in response to PMs. Dude why can't you post your responses here? It's easier to follow. "its hard to perceive you as 'a true agnostic-atheist'"
Why? I am Agnostic in the fact that I don't know for sure if a God exists. I am Atheist in regards to the fact that I do not believe without evidence. I'd love to join Judaism or maybe even the Orthodox Church, but I can't trust them. I know better from Church hopping and some of the issues with OJ. It comes down to men...period.
It's pretty clear that the Canaanite Pantheon (The Gods - Elohim) were worshiped either with Y or Y himself was indeed a part of the Pantheon who later overthrew the other gods.
I believe this was prevalent in both Kingdoms to some extent prior to Josiah's Deuteronomic reforms.
You know your written record well but we also have to consider that 'the historical' written hebrew record has been maligned phonetically cause 'the babylonian talmud' tradition corrupted 'the true holy language' irreparably.
And since... The Pagan Traditions continued on thus is why current day judaism and christianity are rote with polytheistic terms in Their Scriptures.
Therefore Their purpose to hide 'the true name' of Our Creator continues on within Their Hidden Pagan Traditions!
Drive him out from the se[at of his kingship]From the dais, the throne,] of his sovereigntyAnd they, even to [He will smite thee like [ ]El, sacrifice [ ]
""Yw-El" is the son of the head of the pantheon. This suggests that
"Yahweh" ("Yw") was originally El's son in pre-Israelite Canaan. It is usual for a younger god to eclipse the older gods in the development of religion.
In other words, just as Zeus eclipsed his father Cronus, Yahweh eclipsed his
father El. Subsequently, Hebrew monotheism necessitated the identification
Yeshua' Messiah eclipsed all known servants of The Creator!
But truly Yeshua' never actually eclipsed any of the forgoing knowledge and instructions given by The Creator instead The Creator Of All gave The Supreme Simple Message that The Creator' Creation can eclipse the compulsion to sin against His Creator by The Creator' Creation coming back into solemnity with The Creator' Original Intention to have The Creator' Creation live eternally instead of dying in the darkness of ignorance!
Do a video. I don't want this on the most discussed and have the comments be not even relevent to the topic the video is about...do a little video...send it to me and I'll do a little video...and everyone will comment and do little videos....
Do a video? Truthfully 'the discussion' at hand that came thru this video I agree is untimely but I realize that only 'few' have the true desire to have 'a sincere dialog' therefore I only go where 'the sincere' seek 'to know'...
Therefore by practice I don't waste my time on producing videos that 'the masses' are incapable of appreciating so please leapfrog 'a video' off this our discussion if you feel so compelled but please don't do so at my expense...
I think Pagan traditions came first...it appears that way...when the earth was divided up among the gods Yahweh was allotted Israel. Yahweh even looses a battle to another deity in biblical literature. See. II Kings 3:26-27
Consider that Yahweh comes from The Tetragrammaton which is 'the source' of Jewish Mysticism and in careful study is just 'the worshiping' of 'angelic deities' which ties in with 'the fallen nature' of Israel losing its direct connection to Its Redeemer and Creator as in Saul' lost communication.
I see in 'the practice' of Kabbalah 'the probation' of Their supposed sacred name (YHVH) as a mere covering for Their Unholy Idolatries!
Don't hesitate to quote me so I may follow your reasoning on my commentaries cause I don't see on this whole page where I put any of the canonical sixty-six books specifically one above the other...
The NT I believe is nothing more than an oral tradition like the talmud if One doesn't guide Themselves by The Hebrew Scriptures first then They quickly fall into polytheism ignorantly...
Also... I don't limit myself to sixty-six books for only superstitious followers follow after men...
Do you believe that Shema testifies to this in some way? not a declaration of monotheism, but more like ......"Hear O' Yisroel, Yahweh is now our Elohim, Yahweh alone is God."
This is why I use YAH to address The Creator but also use YaHVeH to testify against talmudic judaism that Their Spiritual Idolatries don't have any value on anyone uttering The Name aka HaShem...
The Shema as in YAH IS ONE (ECHAD) goes beyond 'the matter of universal thought' to 'a greater monumental spiritual depth' of zero, without The Creator we have zero but The Creator thru Moses was emphasizing 'the bases of all scales' originating from The Creator representing The Source of all things...
I think the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, was El and the God of Moses was Yahweh. El Enyon would have been God Most High, leader of the Elohim. The rest of the Elohim "Sons of God."Judaism was nothing more than a gradual process of transforming polytheism to monotheism.
Echad means to join together into one. Christians see this as a reference to the Trinity, I see it as all the other Gods (Elohim) being assimilated into one God.....Yahweh.
The Oral Law was just an added instruction code tacked onto the Written Torah to give the Priests/Rabbis more power and maintain order over the Israeites in exile. In kept them together and from assimilating into the surrounding cultures.
For instance circumcision was probably used so Israelite women know who was a genuine Israelite to mate with. The Abraham story added into the text at a later time.
Isn't the written torah 'a priestly' and 'prophetical' given sanction from The Creator vs. the oral law 'an adding to' by 'the rabbinate' that came back from babylon?
The Torah being 'the true given code' vs. The Oral Law being 'a more' oligarchical travesty?
One is sanctioned thru The Creator; the other by the men that came after The Creator' Prophets to usurp 'the instruction' of 'the pure' giving 'the corrupted leaders' control over 'the corruption' of The Creator' Chosen People...
The Written Torah is used in the same way as the Oral Torah, to control and maintain order of the laity by the Priests/Rabbis. Documentary Hypothesis, while not perfect, has exposed this fact. DH doesn't have to be perfect, it only has to provide a better answer than TMS (Torah mi-Sinai).
Halacha is continually updated through the Chief Rabbinate and, currently getting more strict, and suffocating the beauty of Judaism. More and more people are going OTD (off the derech).
You also have the growing "Orthoprax" movement. They do all of the laws and rituals, but they are skeptics/Atheists on the inside. They love their community and the rituals and are so use to them that even if they stop believing they still wish to stay in the fold. Unless someone can mind read you couldn't tell the difference.
Are you affirming here that Abraham thru Jacob worshiped a different deity than Moses did?
This is just for clarification...
Just to share my perspective here I don't consider polytheism nor monotheism to be relevant in any sense when it comes to The Message From The Creator cause it is men that theologize by their understandings that god or gods can be openly legitimized...
But man in the flesh cannot prove that which is hidden yet Their Intellects strive ardently to do so scholarly!
That is my belief, but not entirely mine. The book that led me in this direction is "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong.
For me Judaism is either true or it isn't true, but that doesn't mean it isn't worth studying for historical/sociological reasons. There is still beauty in it regardless. Truth is truth period, that's what I seek. As far as a God goes, I'm of the belief that it's possible, highly unlikely, all of the current religions are wrong, and I just don't have a reason to believe.
From these excerpts you believe these Ugaritic/Canaanite/Phoenician deities are somehow a realized reality yet Their Traditions and Customs are clearly polytheistic when They never realized 'a sole source' zero point Creator?
These all originated from Cosmic Mythos' that were handed down from pre diluvian Nephilim knowledge akin to the greeks giving us the spartans and trojans.
History proves to us that the oligarchical families throughout history worshiped evil spirits!
I believe that Judaism is simply a formulated confluence of these other tribal beliefs. From the Canaanite Pantheon, to the Babylonian world model, to the Greek philosophy that eventually influenced it. At no time has Judaism been monolithic in it's history, it evolves like all religions have in some way. The Abrahamics however are more interesting in that they have changed each other and influenced each other over the years.
I'm mostly interested in filling the huge gaping hole left by retaliation on both sides of Judaism and Christianity. The fact that Judaism was changed to tone down anything messianic and "too Christian." and likewise the Church made an effort to erase all things Jewish from Christianity to establish Orthodoxy. Once "Orthodoxy" was established on both sides much was lost and destroyed. History was revisioned to back "Orthodoxy" and denounce all others as "Heresy."
Does it really matter if it's not true? Does it lose all of it's cultural meaning by not being factual? Should everything be thrown out? What about the beauty of the liturgy and ritual for the sake of itself? What about the chants and music still beautiful and moving? The architecture? The history of being useful in explaining the world around us long before modern science?
Correct. Anything pre 100ad is a good start on literature before the retaliation. How ever they change it in retaliation to Rome, The Greeks, and the Babylonians. And even in retaliation to Canaanite, and Persian. It's amazing.
Once I decided that Atheist was true much of library was destroyed, only keeping a few Tanakhs, Josephus, and a few Christian Bibles, mostly my Roman copies with the Apocrypha. I wish I hadn't, but now I can rebuild a library, a much better library than I ever had.
However, I have not been able to ever completely divorce myself from religion from following all the arguments within the movements to wanting know what really happened. It's a love affair I can't give up.
Mostly, it also keeps me from being an extremist. I want to have some relationship with it. I don't think it's religion in general that Atheism is retaliating against anyway, just it's fundamental elements. The Evangelicals are creating a monster and extremism begets extremism. I just don't want to be a part of it and want to enjoy the non-extreme elements and still find much beauty in religion divorced from belief.
There's a lot here to agree with - but there are a few things happening 1) the message is all about prosperity 2) I have been refusing to participate and being as quiet as I can about the issues 3) When I told the pastor I was leaving because I didn't want to cause trouble he insisted I shouldn't 4) My son (the girls are steps - and its dif) but my son is cool with staying there and understands I am a bit extreme... 5stars
Someone told me once, "If you find the perfect church, don't join it, because you'll probably ruin it." Meaning, of course, not that I'm the only imperfect person in the world, but that there really is no such thing as the perfect church. I've also heard, "The church is the only army that shoots its own wounded." Great video, without or without the man fuzz.
Someone clearly isn't thinking here between you, kitten (john), and jordan cause your triunity of secular intelligence critics religion as 'a whole' but when any one of you are required to bring something forth OF YAH you summarize and marginalize YAH and HIS SON Yeshua' Ben YaHVeH as something that doesn't compute within your intelligentsia of innumerable written studies...
Hence you tell others like Chris to stay or go but lead them to your bookend conclusions that YAH is esoteric!
...If you three got 'a message' from YAH then 'speak it' but if all you have to offer is tidbits of self induced wisdom from all the worlds mystery religions then say so but don't pretend that what your grandfather lived Wayman was anything less than hypocrisy therefore your testimony Wayman here just perpetuates 'the stereotype' of 'an archetypical flawed institution' that just supplants THE WILL OF YAH and exonerates THE SINS OF PAGANISM so as to corrupt ITS MEMBERS GENERATIONALLY...
Besides my critic here I appreciate you three but not at the expensive of you all like Chris 'thinking alike' that these 'institutions' must somehow 'never be changed' or better yet should be closed all together for they DO NOT SERVE anyone but 'the government' and its plutocratical powers...
Therefore I will judge you,O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD.Return ye,and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so shall they not be a stumblingblock of iniquity unto you.Cast away from you all your transgressions,wherein ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth,saith the Lord GOD;wherefore turn yourselves, and live.
1 Chronicles 22:10 He shall build a house for My name, and he shall be My son and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever.
In the last two thousand plus years Whom has set upon 'the throne' of Israel's kingdom?
What? Do you now doubt THE WORD OF YAH or do you fail to see and know THAT YAH IS SPIRIT and HIS DECREES are eternally just!
I have been on YouTube for over two years now and I have observed You and Your Brethren 'The Nay Sayers' very intently therefore I have assumed nothing of You for 'Your Words' and 'Testimony' clearly make you 'An Intellectual Gnostic' at best...
Yet I don't pretend to hide behind scholarly fortifications that make men hide their secret cabal knowledge so they can indulge themselves with their esoteric superiorities.
The text you mention refers to the Davidic line but was not fulfilled due to the Babylonian captivity. The phrase בני האלהים shows only three times in Hebrew Gen6:4; Job1:6; Job2:1; Out of these three which one is Jesus?
"The text you mention refers to the Davidic line but was not fulfilled due to the Babylonian captivity." -RT
Response... Thus you look upon the hebrew scriptures as nothing more relevant than the sumerian texts as being somehow a mere mythos, right?
Q) If your mind and freewill of what good and evil is to be believed then you yourself have concluded that your deductions about what is 'right' and 'wrong' is subjected by your reasonings, right?
"THE SINS OF PAGANISM so as to corrupt ITS MEMBERS GENERATIONALLY.".. I think your caps was stuck on but if you like I could send you the Canaanite texts with the origin of the name Ya and El in them. There is no such thing as pure culture. "PAGANISM" exists in every corner of religion. It just all depends on how far your belief system will allow you to look.
If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.
-George S. Patton
Then why do you mock that which you don't understand?
Instead 'ask' which is 'the true' essence of where wisdom comes.
Wisdom doesn't come from reading books but from asking, searching, and seeking out YAH in 'why' HE ALLOWED 'the book' to come into existence, for YAH' WILL teaches us wisdom!
See my 10 assumption on my channel page. I find it interesting that you are bent on using YA every other sentence, which in turn makes me wonder your motives for this discussion and the world view behind it. So I have to dismiss such conversations at times because they go in circles and never end. I have not placed my self above my peers. Your the one who responded with such comments. People will always be people. With more research you will find that there more ways Selah is used.
Your Ten Assumptions is a parallel to Ten Commandments of what you're not willing to allow your theories in thought via science to be relied upon.
Thus your logic and reasonings make you superior all because you believe that somehow your subjection process weeds out who is religious vs. scientific in thought, or not, and this process of candor which pleases you The Free Thinkers are never truly willing to answer but instead indulge the tiff pleasantries of enlightening others always.
...If the caps offend you then you must ask yourself, why?
I can tell you why cause YOU HAVE PLACED YOURSELF above your peers and when they speak to you; you demand them to respect your prowess of intelligence. Like you, I speak what I see and hear the spirit which speaks thru you and others; are you offended at someone else's truth; like you, I likewise offer to others? If you understand the anthropological record of paganism in mans history then why do you repeat it? Instead of honoring YAH?
Does 'the school teacher' ever stop learning or does the teacher stop teaching for 'the sake' of 'learning life' to its fullest extent?
Selah was only used by you AFTER I intentioned it so yet you nullified its purpose thus is your given talent...
I'll leave you with 'a final question' that I know you'll have NO ANSWER for but humor me so all your subscribers will appreciate where you're really at...
"Which came first Science or Religion and which One adequately defines mans origin on earth"?
Anthropologically The Shekhinah Glory Of The Creator Appeared over The Mercy Seat upon The Ark Of The Covenant but didn't The Kabala thru The Zohar and Talmud define this as One Of The Three Pillars of The Sephirot?
When men look upon The Creator' Manifestations in hindsight they have no prophetical guidance to go by therefore They conjure up via magick cause of Their Inability to actualize The Intent Of The Creator' Ways thus They come forth with mythos' instead!
I look at the history and theology as I would any other nation's history or theology. "Mythos" is used to abstrac tly explain 1. who am I 2What am I doing here? What is my role in my society? 3. What will happen to me after Death. 4. How did we all get here? I am no understanding why you keep bringing up the Zohar, Kabala and other such groups. The conversation is about Ancient Isreal and Their theology and religion, and how and why it possibly came about.
The metaphor show up everywhere there are people thinking about or reflecting about such question religious or not. It crops up in dance, art song, rituals, coming of age, ideas about death, afterlife ect. What you are looking at it globally through a particular theology. I am not. I am interested in what they thought not what some person with a theological agenda thought they thought...
your implying that people created myth becuase they lact the ability to actualize. But they did actulize it whan they performed the ritual. People do the same with "The lords Supper." or any other ritual. This happens in NON RELIGOUS RITUALS oops caps..also
A final parting statement.If we are aware of the process the ego united with the self sees it's self as the center of the universe.This is alluded to in the Upanishads."He sees,but he can't be seen; he hears but can't be heard;he thinks but he can't be thought of;he perceives but he can't be perceived.Besides him, there is no one who sees, no one who hears, no one who thinks,and no one who perceives. It is this self of yours that is the inner controller, the immortal. All besides this is grief."
ReligionThink 2 years ago
@Christianizers
"The Creator DID NOT create religion, man did in his shame to cover himself from his sins against 'A Sovereign Creator'"
This claim requires evidence, without which I have no reason to trust any belief system. Maybe I need a new channel with a new name. It was created in a time when I instantly ran to Atheism for comfort when I felt hurt/betrayed by religion. If you have other question please ask them here as long as Wayman doesn't mind.
What is your position anyway C?
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
@Christianizers
"Judaism misses 'the mark' of The Abrahamic Covenant and when They returned from Babylon They totally obliterated The Mosaic Covenant"
This is more or less the claim of the Samaritans (The Keepers) that the Jews changed Judaism and I don't doubt that it was not changed. The Jews claim that the Samaritans are not real Israelites. Who is telling the truth? Overall it doesn't matter, I can enjoy both for what they are.
Don't forget the Sola Scriptura Jews....The Karaites.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
@Christianizers
OJ is not monolithic. It's not just laws, there many different sects. While they all may follow Mosaic Laws they are very different. Yeshivish OJ is very bookish. Chasidim are very very spiritual. Even at that there are differences between Lubavitch, Satmar, Breslov, Ger, etc.
OJ is very colorful in many ways even though it may seem very boring.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
@Christianizers in response to PMs. Dude why can't you post your responses here? It's easier to follow. "its hard to perceive you as 'a true agnostic-atheist'"
Why? I am Agnostic in the fact that I don't know for sure if a God exists. I am Atheist in regards to the fact that I do not believe without evidence. I'd love to join Judaism or maybe even the Orthodox Church, but I can't trust them. I know better from Church hopping and some of the issues with OJ. It comes down to men...period.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
As far as a Deist/Pantheist system, I just don't see the point.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
@Christianizers in response to the PM.
It's pretty clear that the Canaanite Pantheon (The Gods - Elohim) were worshiped either with Y or Y himself was indeed a part of the Pantheon who later overthrew the other gods.
I believe this was prevalent in both Kingdoms to some extent prior to Josiah's Deuteronomic reforms.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
HOA...
You know your written record well but we also have to consider that 'the historical' written hebrew record has been maligned phonetically cause 'the babylonian talmud' tradition corrupted 'the true holy language' irreparably.
And since... The Pagan Traditions continued on thus is why current day judaism and christianity are rote with polytheistic terms in Their Scriptures.
Therefore Their purpose to hide 'the true name' of Our Creator continues on within Their Hidden Pagan Traditions!
Christianizers 2 years ago
Very good..let me get the text... And Ltpn, God of Mercy, replies:
"The name of my son is Yw-El."
And he proclaims the name of Sea.
They reply: "Thou art named 'Lord' I am Ltpn, God [of Mercy, On the hands, thou art named [ ]
Thy name is El's Darling, [Sea ]
My house of silver which In the hands of Aliyan Ba[al ]A pitcher of wine - - - [ ]
ReligionThink 2 years ago
Drive him out from the se[at of his kingship]From the dais, the throne,] of his sovereigntyAnd they, even to [He will smite thee like [ ]El, sacrifice [ ]
to name [ ]Slaughter great [and small cattle]
[Kill] oxen and [fallings of rams]
[Yearling bullocks][Little] lambs, [kids ]
ReligionThink 2 years ago
""Yw-El" is the son of the head of the pantheon. This suggests that
"Yahweh" ("Yw") was originally El's son in pre-Israelite Canaan. It is usual for a younger god to eclipse the older gods in the development of religion.
In other words, just as Zeus eclipsed his father Cronus, Yahweh eclipsed his
father El. Subsequently, Hebrew monotheism necessitated the identification
of Yahweh with EL
Ugarit and Minoan Crete. by Cyrus Gordon pg.61
ReligionThink 2 years ago
Who has Christ Eclipsed?
ReligionThink 2 years ago
Wayman,
Yeshua' Messiah eclipsed all known servants of The Creator!
But truly Yeshua' never actually eclipsed any of the forgoing knowledge and instructions given by The Creator instead The Creator Of All gave The Supreme Simple Message that The Creator' Creation can eclipse the compulsion to sin against His Creator by The Creator' Creation coming back into solemnity with The Creator' Original Intention to have The Creator' Creation live eternally instead of dying in the darkness of ignorance!
Christianizers 2 years ago
Do a video. I don't want this on the most discussed and have the comments be not even relevent to the topic the video is about...do a little video...send it to me and I'll do a little video...and everyone will comment and do little videos....
ReligionThink 2 years ago
Wayman...
Do a video? Truthfully 'the discussion' at hand that came thru this video I agree is untimely but I realize that only 'few' have the true desire to have 'a sincere dialog' therefore I only go where 'the sincere' seek 'to know'...
Therefore by practice I don't waste my time on producing videos that 'the masses' are incapable of appreciating so please leapfrog 'a video' off this our discussion if you feel so compelled but please don't do so at my expense...
This will be my final post!
Christianizers 2 years ago
Selah...
ReligionThink 2 years ago
I think Pagan traditions came first...it appears that way...when the earth was divided up among the gods Yahweh was allotted Israel. Yahweh even looses a battle to another deity in biblical literature. See. II Kings 3:26-27
ReligionThink 2 years ago
Never thought of it that way. The eclipsing....Very interesting.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
Just in passing...
Before I adequately respond to you Wayman,
Consider that Yahweh comes from The Tetragrammaton which is 'the source' of Jewish Mysticism and in careful study is just 'the worshiping' of 'angelic deities' which ties in with 'the fallen nature' of Israel losing its direct connection to Its Redeemer and Creator as in Saul' lost communication.
I see in 'the practice' of Kabbalah 'the probation' of Their supposed sacred name (YHVH) as a mere covering for Their Unholy Idolatries!
Christianizers 2 years ago
Here your making reference to what happened in the whole NT. Why are you able to apply it to one but not the other.
ReligionThink 2 years ago
Wayman...
Don't hesitate to quote me so I may follow your reasoning on my commentaries cause I don't see on this whole page where I put any of the canonical sixty-six books specifically one above the other...
The NT I believe is nothing more than an oral tradition like the talmud if One doesn't guide Themselves by The Hebrew Scriptures first then They quickly fall into polytheism ignorantly...
Also... I don't limit myself to sixty-six books for only superstitious followers follow after men...
Christianizers 2 years ago
Do you believe that Shema testifies to this in some way? not a declaration of monotheism, but more like ......"Hear O' Yisroel, Yahweh is now our Elohim, Yahweh alone is God."
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
This is why I use YAH to address The Creator but also use YaHVeH to testify against talmudic judaism that Their Spiritual Idolatries don't have any value on anyone uttering The Name aka HaShem...
The Shema as in YAH IS ONE (ECHAD) goes beyond 'the matter of universal thought' to 'a greater monumental spiritual depth' of zero, without The Creator we have zero but The Creator thru Moses was emphasizing 'the bases of all scales' originating from The Creator representing The Source of all things...
Christianizers 2 years ago
I think the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, was El and the God of Moses was Yahweh. El Enyon would have been God Most High, leader of the Elohim. The rest of the Elohim "Sons of God."Judaism was nothing more than a gradual process of transforming polytheism to monotheism.
Echad means to join together into one. Christians see this as a reference to the Trinity, I see it as all the other Gods (Elohim) being assimilated into one God.....Yahweh.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
The Oral Law was just an added instruction code tacked onto the Written Torah to give the Priests/Rabbis more power and maintain order over the Israeites in exile. In kept them together and from assimilating into the surrounding cultures.
For instance circumcision was probably used so Israelite women know who was a genuine Israelite to mate with. The Abraham story added into the text at a later time.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
HOA...
Isn't the written torah 'a priestly' and 'prophetical' given sanction from The Creator vs. the oral law 'an adding to' by 'the rabbinate' that came back from babylon?
The Torah being 'the true given code' vs. The Oral Law being 'a more' oligarchical travesty?
One is sanctioned thru The Creator; the other by the men that came after The Creator' Prophets to usurp 'the instruction' of 'the pure' giving 'the corrupted leaders' control over 'the corruption' of The Creator' Chosen People...
Christianizers 2 years ago
@Christianizers
The Written Torah is used in the same way as the Oral Torah, to control and maintain order of the laity by the Priests/Rabbis. Documentary Hypothesis, while not perfect, has exposed this fact. DH doesn't have to be perfect, it only has to provide a better answer than TMS (Torah mi-Sinai).
Halacha is continually updated through the Chief Rabbinate and, currently getting more strict, and suffocating the beauty of Judaism. More and more people are going OTD (off the derech).
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
You also have the growing "Orthoprax" movement. They do all of the laws and rituals, but they are skeptics/Atheists on the inside. They love their community and the rituals and are so use to them that even if they stop believing they still wish to stay in the fold. Unless someone can mind read you couldn't tell the difference.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
HOA...
Are you affirming here that Abraham thru Jacob worshiped a different deity than Moses did?
This is just for clarification...
Just to share my perspective here I don't consider polytheism nor monotheism to be relevant in any sense when it comes to The Message From The Creator cause it is men that theologize by their understandings that god or gods can be openly legitimized...
But man in the flesh cannot prove that which is hidden yet Their Intellects strive ardently to do so scholarly!
Christianizers 2 years ago
That is my belief, but not entirely mine. The book that led me in this direction is "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong.
For me Judaism is either true or it isn't true, but that doesn't mean it isn't worth studying for historical/sociological reasons. There is still beauty in it regardless. Truth is truth period, that's what I seek. As far as a God goes, I'm of the belief that it's possible, highly unlikely, all of the current religions are wrong, and I just don't have a reason to believe.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
you get an A for awesome.
ReligionThink 2 years ago
Haha. Thanks. I owe much to your videos and channel for finding the ever elusive middle ground.
So thank you for your awesomeness and the time you put into everything you do for the rest of us who find ourselves in the same boat.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
Lets break this down,
From these excerpts you believe these Ugaritic/Canaanite/Phoenician deities are somehow a realized reality yet Their Traditions and Customs are clearly polytheistic when They never realized 'a sole source' zero point Creator?
These all originated from Cosmic Mythos' that were handed down from pre diluvian Nephilim knowledge akin to the greeks giving us the spartans and trojans.
History proves to us that the oligarchical families throughout history worshiped evil spirits!
Christianizers 2 years ago
I believe that Judaism is simply a formulated confluence of these other tribal beliefs. From the Canaanite Pantheon, to the Babylonian world model, to the Greek philosophy that eventually influenced it. At no time has Judaism been monolithic in it's history, it evolves like all religions have in some way. The Abrahamics however are more interesting in that they have changed each other and influenced each other over the years.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
I'm mostly interested in filling the huge gaping hole left by retaliation on both sides of Judaism and Christianity. The fact that Judaism was changed to tone down anything messianic and "too Christian." and likewise the Church made an effort to erase all things Jewish from Christianity to establish Orthodoxy. Once "Orthodoxy" was established on both sides much was lost and destroyed. History was revisioned to back "Orthodoxy" and denounce all others as "Heresy."
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
Does it really matter if it's not true? Does it lose all of it's cultural meaning by not being factual? Should everything be thrown out? What about the beauty of the liturgy and ritual for the sake of itself? What about the chants and music still beautiful and moving? The architecture? The history of being useful in explaining the world around us long before modern science?
Does it have to be 100% or nothing??
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
Correct. Anything pre 100ad is a good start on literature before the retaliation. How ever they change it in retaliation to Rome, The Greeks, and the Babylonians. And even in retaliation to Canaanite, and Persian. It's amazing.
ReligionThink 2 years ago
Once I decided that Atheist was true much of library was destroyed, only keeping a few Tanakhs, Josephus, and a few Christian Bibles, mostly my Roman copies with the Apocrypha. I wish I hadn't, but now I can rebuild a library, a much better library than I ever had.
However, I have not been able to ever completely divorce myself from religion from following all the arguments within the movements to wanting know what really happened. It's a love affair I can't give up.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
Mostly, it also keeps me from being an extremist. I want to have some relationship with it. I don't think it's religion in general that Atheism is retaliating against anyway, just it's fundamental elements. The Evangelicals are creating a monster and extremism begets extremism. I just don't want to be a part of it and want to enjoy the non-extreme elements and still find much beauty in religion divorced from belief.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
I agree.
ReligionThink 2 years ago
There's a lot here to agree with - but there are a few things happening 1) the message is all about prosperity 2) I have been refusing to participate and being as quiet as I can about the issues 3) When I told the pastor I was leaving because I didn't want to cause trouble he insisted I shouldn't 4) My son (the girls are steps - and its dif) but my son is cool with staying there and understands I am a bit extreme... 5stars
christoferL 2 years ago
Someone told me once, "If you find the perfect church, don't join it, because you'll probably ruin it." Meaning, of course, not that I'm the only imperfect person in the world, but that there really is no such thing as the perfect church. I've also heard, "The church is the only army that shoots its own wounded." Great video, without or without the man fuzz.
keytoothed 2 years ago
Wayman...
Someone clearly isn't thinking here between you, kitten (john), and jordan cause your triunity of secular intelligence critics religion as 'a whole' but when any one of you are required to bring something forth OF YAH you summarize and marginalize YAH and HIS SON Yeshua' Ben YaHVeH as something that doesn't compute within your intelligentsia of innumerable written studies...
Hence you tell others like Chris to stay or go but lead them to your bookend conclusions that YAH is esoteric!
Christianizers 2 years ago
Wayman, John, and Jordan bring forth YAH' ANOINTING not your continued disjoining words that...
Christianizers 2 years ago
...If you three got 'a message' from YAH then 'speak it' but if all you have to offer is tidbits of self induced wisdom from all the worlds mystery religions then say so but don't pretend that what your grandfather lived Wayman was anything less than hypocrisy therefore your testimony Wayman here just perpetuates 'the stereotype' of 'an archetypical flawed institution' that just supplants THE WILL OF YAH and exonerates THE SINS OF PAGANISM so as to corrupt ITS MEMBERS GENERATIONALLY...
Christianizers 2 years ago
Besides my critic here I appreciate you three but not at the expensive of you all like Chris 'thinking alike' that these 'institutions' must somehow 'never be changed' or better yet should be closed all together for they DO NOT SERVE anyone but 'the government' and its plutocratical powers...
Selah...
Christianizers 2 years ago
ooohhh boy
ReligionThink 2 years ago
ooohhh boy... "Let us ponder 'the matter' at hand instead of dismissing 'the abuses' of man"... -Lockmanship
Christianizers 2 years ago
Therefore I will judge you,O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD.Return ye,and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so shall they not be a stumblingblock of iniquity unto you.Cast away from you all your transgressions,wherein ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth,saith the Lord GOD;wherefore turn yourselves, and live.
(Eze 18:30-32)
ReligionThink 2 years ago
I don't see the name Yeshua' Ben YaHVeH in this text.
ReligionThink 2 years ago
Wayman...
Are you saying that YAH has NO SONS?
Whether Celestial or Terrestrial?
1 Chronicles 22:10 He shall build a house for My name, and he shall be My son and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever.
In the last two thousand plus years Whom has set upon 'the throne' of Israel's kingdom?
What? Do you now doubt THE WORD OF YAH or do you fail to see and know THAT YAH IS SPIRIT and HIS DECREES are eternally just!
...YOU choose NOT TO SEE...
Christianizers 2 years ago
נדמו עמי מבלי הדעת כי־אתה הדעת מאסת ואמאסאך מכהן לי ותשׁכח תורת אלהיך אשׁכח בניך גם־אני׃ כרבם כן חטאו־לי כבודם בקלון אמיר׃
ReligionThink 2 years ago
I have been on YouTube for over two years now and I have observed You and Your Brethren 'The Nay Sayers' very intently therefore I have assumed nothing of You for 'Your Words' and 'Testimony' clearly make you 'An Intellectual Gnostic' at best...
Yet I don't pretend to hide behind scholarly fortifications that make men hide their secret cabal knowledge so they can indulge themselves with their esoteric superiorities.
Quick Review On Wisdom Again;
How many questions were asked but not answered?
Christianizers 2 years ago
The text you mention refers to the Davidic line but was not fulfilled due to the Babylonian captivity. The phrase בני האלהים shows only three times in Hebrew Gen6:4; Job1:6; Job2:1; Out of these three which one is Jesus?
ReligionThink 2 years ago
"The text you mention refers to the Davidic line but was not fulfilled due to the Babylonian captivity." -RT
Response... Thus you look upon the hebrew scriptures as nothing more relevant than the sumerian texts as being somehow a mere mythos, right?
Q) If your mind and freewill of what good and evil is to be believed then you yourself have concluded that your deductions about what is 'right' and 'wrong' is subjected by your reasonings, right?
And you have yet to answer any of my questions...
Christianizers 2 years ago
"THE SINS OF PAGANISM so as to corrupt ITS MEMBERS GENERATIONALLY.".. I think your caps was stuck on but if you like I could send you the Canaanite texts with the origin of the name Ya and El in them. There is no such thing as pure culture. "PAGANISM" exists in every corner of religion. It just all depends on how far your belief system will allow you to look.
ReligionThink 2 years ago
Selah...
ReligionThink 2 years ago
Selah means...
..."Let those with eyes see and with ears hear"!
Or...
Do you continue to mimic other men like Patton?
If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.
-George S. Patton
Then why do you mock that which you don't understand?
Instead 'ask' which is 'the true' essence of where wisdom comes.
Wisdom doesn't come from reading books but from asking, searching, and seeking out YAH in 'why' HE ALLOWED 'the book' to come into existence, for YAH' WILL teaches us wisdom!
Christianizers 2 years ago
See my 10 assumption on my channel page. I find it interesting that you are bent on using YA every other sentence, which in turn makes me wonder your motives for this discussion and the world view behind it. So I have to dismiss such conversations at times because they go in circles and never end. I have not placed my self above my peers. Your the one who responded with such comments. People will always be people. With more research you will find that there more ways Selah is used.
ReligionThink 2 years ago
Your Ten Assumptions is a parallel to Ten Commandments of what you're not willing to allow your theories in thought via science to be relied upon.
Thus your logic and reasonings make you superior all because you believe that somehow your subjection process weeds out who is religious vs. scientific in thought, or not, and this process of candor which pleases you The Free Thinkers are never truly willing to answer but instead indulge the tiff pleasantries of enlightening others always.
Selah...
Christianizers 2 years ago
...If the caps offend you then you must ask yourself, why?
I can tell you why cause YOU HAVE PLACED YOURSELF above your peers and when they speak to you; you demand them to respect your prowess of intelligence. Like you, I speak what I see and hear the spirit which speaks thru you and others; are you offended at someone else's truth; like you, I likewise offer to others? If you understand the anthropological record of paganism in mans history then why do you repeat it? Instead of honoring YAH?
Christianizers 2 years ago
Does 'the school teacher' ever stop learning or does the teacher stop teaching for 'the sake' of 'learning life' to its fullest extent?
Selah was only used by you AFTER I intentioned it so yet you nullified its purpose thus is your given talent...
I'll leave you with 'a final question' that I know you'll have NO ANSWER for but humor me so all your subscribers will appreciate where you're really at...
"Which came first Science or Religion and which One adequately defines mans origin on earth"?
Christianizers 2 years ago
Y was probably much nicer when he had his Asherah.
Damn shame the onlyists ruined the kingdom.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
A good book on the topic is called "The Hebrew Goddess." byJewish historian and anthropologist Raphael Patai
ReligionThink 2 years ago
I'll add it to my ever growing, and ever costly, Amazon shopping cart. :)
Off topic real quick, have you studied Eastern Orthodoxy Christianity AKA the other "One True Church?"
I want to pick up a copy of the Orthodox Study Bible with Orthodox Commentary. The Orthodox Way and The Orthodox Church both by Ware.
Finishing up Lost Christianities currently.
HeroesofApostasy 2 years ago
Wayman;
The Hebrew Goddess?
Anthropologically The Shekhinah Glory Of The Creator Appeared over The Mercy Seat upon The Ark Of The Covenant but didn't The Kabala thru The Zohar and Talmud define this as One Of The Three Pillars of The Sephirot?
When men look upon The Creator' Manifestations in hindsight they have no prophetical guidance to go by therefore They conjure up via magick cause of Their Inability to actualize The Intent Of The Creator' Ways thus They come forth with mythos' instead!
Christianizers 2 years ago
I look at the history and theology as I would any other nation's history or theology. "Mythos" is used to abstrac tly explain 1. who am I 2What am I doing here? What is my role in my society? 3. What will happen to me after Death. 4. How did we all get here? I am no understanding why you keep bringing up the Zohar, Kabala and other such groups. The conversation is about Ancient Isreal and Their theology and religion, and how and why it possibly came about.
ReligionThink 2 years ago
The metaphor show up everywhere there are people thinking about or reflecting about such question religious or not. It crops up in dance, art song, rituals, coming of age, ideas about death, afterlife ect. What you are looking at it globally through a particular theology. I am not. I am interested in what they thought not what some person with a theological agenda thought they thought...
ReligionThink 2 years ago
your implying that people created myth becuase they lact the ability to actualize. But they did actulize it whan they performed the ritual. People do the same with "The lords Supper." or any other ritual. This happens in NON RELIGOUS RITUALS oops caps..also
ReligionThink 2 years ago
LOL... (on the caps)
Christianizers 2 years ago
Sermon after the sermon. Thats an interesting phrase. Kind regards,
TheWisemonkey8 2 years ago