This is child abuse. The parents of these children should be ashamed. Go up to your URL bar, put a Q between the words you and tube and then press enter or click go.
I live in Norway and by using YouTube i've seen a lot of weird stuff, 90% from USA. Mostly harmless and funny.
But after seing this, I almost had tears in my eyes. Those poor kids! IT IS SIMPLY SICK! It is legalized child abuse. But those brain washed adults that is a part of it can not or will not see how sick it is.
I too believe in Jesus Christ. But when i saw this i realized that it had nothing to do with what the Bible teaches.
if you teach a child in the path of one religion and keep it ignorant, good chance the chil's trust in you will cause him/her to still blindly believe that religion as an adult, no matter, unless they start learning real things while they're still young.
children are gullable when they're young, proof:santa:tooth fairy,boogy man,god
this is so appropriate becuase my parents are forcing me to go to centrifuge (a bible camp) this summer....theres no telling what im going to see, but if i see shit like this im walking out....
if i got a child from birth and raised it in a path of Satanism, and evil cults then they would cry for Satan, and ask for forgivness, how do the leaders of Jesus Camp think that the children are actually 100% in knowledge of why they are crying about and they scream "No More!", WTF! kids havent been exposed to the horros of life and alredy they are crying and screaming about how they dont want it anymore. ABSOLUTY PATHETIC!
it sickens me that these children are not given a chance to be normal, or not given a chance to be exposed to realities of life that simply deny most of this crap being taught. firmly i would not put myh faith in a god who takes happiness seeing thousands chanting your-name and crying their eyes out. personally i would feel like hitler.
these kids, from a phychological point of view, are being brainwashed. if a kid growns up in these radical situtation then they have no choice but to go along with it, most of them are too young and uneducated to know what is right and wat is serriously screwed up. the fat woman leading this complete "near cult" community is so fat and ugly, and failed so hard at life, that she using all her remaining energy into hoping that there is an afterlife (so she can try, and probly fail again)
They have to get this shit into kids' heads while their brains are still soft enough to believe it. No atheist adult will ever pick up a bible and be convinced that a talking snake told a woman to eat a fruit, and accept that as an explanation for why child bearing hurts.
agreed, it was once said by a christian, "give me a child for the first 7 years of thier life and i will give you a man" religion has to get them when they are still young and naive, very few people convert in later life, unless it is due to personal experience, but even then it is based on what was taught when they were younger but rejected
"Our firm belief is, there are two types of people in the world, people who love Jesus, and people who don't" Anyone ever notice how Christians do nothing better than separate people?
Yeah, she's right. I've always disagreed with evangelicals... but what they're doing to our nations youth is intolerable. We're sinking to our enemy's level. Just think: instead of one of those pictures were a young mid-east boy is holding an AK-47 we'll have young Americans holding M-16s, and they'll be dying and they'll be dying and blowing themselves up for "God". More like a political machine. Like she says: why can't we all tolerate each other in peace?
I'm Catholic and this is over kill. she said she wants them laying down there lives like in islam, and israel. She's talking about suicide bombings. because those few people think that blowing up many people and themselves is Gods work. And actually that is looked down upon by the greater part of the Muslim community. what About Jewish people. they don't see Jesus as the Messiah but that does not mean they are the enemy. looks more like a cult following to me.
"that is looked down upon by the greater part of the Muslim community."
in the Quaran it says that non beleivers (non-muslims) should be killed where they are found, if they attack you you should kill them.
can you see why they blow people up? its right there in their holy book, and the reward for matryrdom gives them a reason to blow themselves up aswell.
That is a lie , it says do not oppress and do not be oppressed .............if one wants to prevent u from worshipping than u should fight . some people see occupation and taking over ressource and intenationl bullism as keeping them from worshipping. The truth is that u or I do not know what and why or how the wars are being lead . So u dont know and I dont know .................only God knows best
SkiAltaSnowbird, if you are a Christian like you say you are then you should know that Proverbs 22:6 says, "Train up a child in the wayhe should go: and when he is old he will not depart from it." What kind of Christian are you?
those "born again" fanatical bible-hum per cultists, support every evil that godless secular nation does "in the name of God" whether it's moral or immoral. Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people. There is no ultimate or eternal things in the universe, there are only passing events and it is up to individual to grasp the reality.
I do agree that it is causing a rift between ppl and its funny how so many ppl say they are for peace but yet call all others that dont beleive like them or ask questions are goin to hell because you dont see it or you where not raised that way. Really I hopwe someday ppl lrn that if your for peace then do it instead of war.
Jesus camp is a very-very-very sick cult. Bible-hum per Becky Fischer a very sick fat female, teaching lie and brainwashing innocent children. She is a sick Child Abuser.
I am so pleased and happy this hypocrite fat piece of shit Jerry Falwell pig died. Those "born again" fanatical bible-humper cultists, support every evil that godless secular nation does "in the name of God" whether it's moral or immoral. Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people. There is no ultimate or eternal things in the universe, there are only passing events and it is up to individual to grasp the reality.
watch the movie guy they might as well come out instead of jsut goin around the question. As they said you are either a beleiver or your not. Its kind of there if you know what your lookin for.
Why, because you say so? Who made you the judge? You don't know these people--you've seen a 4 min clip. Have you even seen the movie? Have you gone to their website, jesuscampersdotcom? Or are you just as big a bigot as you think they are?
no because these kids are being manipulated. don't force this shit down their throats. do you see how insane this is? this is religion being taken a step too far.
Instead of just constantly spamming these boards with invitations to visit a fanatical cult's BS website dedicated to psychological and emotional child abuse, why don't you do try doing something positive for a change?
[...] Saint gone astray With a scepter and a gun Learn to believe In the mighty and the strong Come bleed the beast Follow me it won't be long Listen when the prophet Speaks to you Killing in the name of God Passion Twisting faith into violence In the name of God [...]
That text fits everybody who thinks that he or she does something because "the lord" told him / her so... You´re all nuts and none of you is justified. Neither by moral standards, NOR any supersticious divinity!
Dude, common sense. If you believe someone is talking to you and there's no one else in the room then you've got a problem. A psychological one! And if that voice tells you to fight a war for him, I'd say you also got some anger issues...
Why does teaching kids to pray, work for others and be compassionate to others scare you? Don't you think kids are capable of learning to be interested in something other than Hannah Montana and Britney Spears?
"Why does teaching kids to pray, work for others and be compassionate to others scare you? "
There is nothing wrong with that, but this camp crossed the line. These kids were serving more the agenda of the adults running the camp then they were God.
how do you know? Were you there? You saw 86 minutes of over 320 HOURS of footage. You don't know what went on before or after. Plus, every organization I know has an agenda. They all "proselytize", raise their kids in their belief systems. All of them, schools, media, parents. Why is it only christian parents and clubs that aren't supposed to do this?
Of course not. All I'm saying is leave "state" out of church and my home. Since you support separation of church and state, (as do I) you should see no problem with this.
Instead of just constantly spamming these boards with invitations to visit a fanatical cult's BS website dedicated to psychological and emotional child abuse, why don't you do try doing something positive for a change?
Instead of just constantly spamming these boards with invitations to visit a fanatical cult's BS website dedicated to psychological and emotional child abuse, why don't you do try doing something positive for a change?
I bet if this was a video of a bunch of muslems the FBI CIA and every other gov agency would be making up shit to take these kids and throw these fanatices in jail
why isnt anybody doing anything to put a stop to this? can you imagine what will happen when these children grow up? my parents tried to brainwash me when i was a kid but thankfully i have a brain, unlike some others i could name. jesus camp must die at all costs
"I agree--I wish government would leave religion alone!"
You are correct but it also works the other way around. Religion should leave government alone as well. Huckabee needs to learn that there is nothing wrong with the Constitution the way it is.
Well, in this case something HAS to be done. I am pretty sure that most of America won't mind but I can assure you, here in Germany something like that would not go unnnoticed or rather ignored in this case... There is a movie, so people know about those "camps"...
Apparently, this camp was closed down shortly after the documentary came out. I am not sure who was instrumental in getting it done and whether or not it was parental influence that did it.
It was closed down because it was vandalized. Anyway, Ms. Fischer only used the camp 4 days out of the year. It was used by numerous groups all summer long. Sad it had to close because of bigots.
So, you support people breaking the law if they feel what they're doing is justified because they don't like what someone else is doing? Sounds like you support the government getting involved in religion. Doesn't that breach the whole "seperation of church and state" wall you are so fond of quoting?
You seem to support it and even be gleeful that the camp used by Ms. Fischer was vandalized. Should only atheists or non-christians be able to use camps? Hardly sounds like freedom of religion to me.
" Sounds like you support the government getting involved in religion."
No I don't but at the same time religion needs to stay out of government. I support the Establishment Clause of the Constitution of the US. Creationists seem to have a hard time keeping their collective noses out of our business.
Constitution guarantees freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. Should only non-religious people be in gov't? We are a plural society, why should only those who believe the bible be silenced?
"Constitution guarantees freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion."
You totally do not get it. People have much a right to be free from your influence as much as you have a right to practice your religion. That is why the Establishment Clause exists within the Constitution.
"I agree 100 percent. Now if only we could get courts to agree."
The courts have upheld the Establishment Clause of the Constitution and I bet you have a problem with that. Evangelical Christians will not be happy until they are running everyones lives for them.
I don't want to run anyone's life. I want to be left alone to raise my kids as I see fit without the gov't or you telling me how I should do it. Do you even have children? Or are you too busy trying to tell others how to raise theirs? What business is it of yours if these people want to raise their kids this way? They are not your kids! This is still America, thank God, and not Europe.
What's up with Europe I wonder? And since you bring it up. Indoctrination is one of the things that led to WWII. A diffenrent kind, but still one that preys on hatred.
Teachcing our children to care about others, pray for them and want the best for them is not indoctrination. Indoctrination is what public schools and media advertising engage in.
"I want to be left alone to raise my kids as I see fit without the gov't or you telling me how I should do it. Do you even have children?"
You can raise your kids the way you want. Mine are in college (one in teacher ed program the other a student in Wildlife Technology). However, my experience with many fundamentalists is that while they want to be left alone, at the same time they wish to have influence over everyone else. If I am wrong about you fine, I am sorry.
I suppose I do want to influence my kids. I want them to be productive, successful contributors to society. One already is as they are on their own , serving in our military. Just because someone believes the bible and wants to teach their kids a certain way doesn't mean their Fred Phelps.
"When have these kids in this film every done anything that shows they don't leave others alone?"
The message they are given is that they should target the non-believer. They are at war for God. The message seems clear to me. Its them against the secular world.
Nothing against Jesus, but Evengelicals are a prime example of why more and more people are becoming non-religious. Shame on them. This is not what Christianity is about. Christianity is teaching with the spirit, not brainwashing!
This people don't know what manner of spirit they are. READ LUKE 9:51-56 Jesus neither want to make an army, nor need soldiers to conquer humanity's heart. Eventually, and by His graceful love, humanity will fall for Him.
Let the flying spaghetti god have mercy on their souls....
I won't say that the possibility of a god is rediculous, just that any religion is rediculous. Every religion calls themselves the right one, you have to include all world religions, all the past religions, all the different branches of religion, ect. So when it all comes down to it, even these people who believe in God have (literally) a one out of billion chance of getting into heaven.
As i've made some in other jesus camp video's i need to say it again is that those parents of those kids should be ashmed of themselves for forcing the religion they know it is there fault and not there children's Ted Haggard should also be ashmed especially him
ultimately though, the kids are at fault b/c they willfully accept it.
when i was their age, i also had to go to these "jesus camps" but i'm not religious at all today. these kids choose to accept it and they choose to perform these actions.
all those below me just remember we need different view points and need to present different views. I believe that these kids have every right to pray for our president and be different if they want to. what is so wrong with that .
For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.
Today is also CONVULSION on the floor day. Kill anyone who doesn't have convulsions on the floor. You can by mild arsenic pills to help with convulsions.
Jesus never existed, it's like the tooth fairy. Only most Americans don't have enough brains to figure this out. The result is the expected, a nation completly submitted to Christian Evangelists and the governments. They can't even think for themselves, Christian Evangelists DO ALL THE THINKING. ALL of it. If you start thinking on your own, you are either ignored or called a blasphemer... or even maybe put to death.
Tolerance is the best path. Not hate. And I am an Atheist saying this. Jesus, no matter if he is real or not, messiah or not, God or not, is undoubtedly impactful to our lives. The Bible is a very interesting story, and although I think it little more realistic than 1984, we must respect those who disagree for the right reason.
Their is plenty of proof that he did exist, whether or not he was the son of God is debatable... Even jesus would debate that. He said he was the son of God but calle everyone Gods childred. So what is the difference between your child and your son?
Yeah! From the Bible ONLY. Also you can't even respect the words HE says, you take God's words out of context. God doesn't condemn homosexuality, you pick and choose what fits your agenda to come up with self-serving crap like: divorces and garbage trash remarriage between a whore and an adulter at the alter.
THERE ARE NO proof he exist more than there is about the tooth fairy. Tooth fairy doesn't have a self-righteous self serving book.
When did I say I don't respect homosexuals? And speaking of hatred your the one typing out a fit of rage. Also there is just as much proof of Jesus Christ having lived as there is for any other historical figure. Saying he lived isn't saying he was the son of God.
I understand what she means but why she had to say it like that I have no clue??? Im a christian so I will translate what she is TRYING to say lol. What she means is that she wants christians to be as dedicated to the lord/bible as muslims are to killing themselves (in a sence.) In doing so that also applies to the ten commandments "thou shalt not kill." Or become a suicide bomber for that matter lol.
Wow she never thought saying that would be misunderstood??? I hope that clears it up a little.. She should not be making references between christianety and Islam like that because it just sounds really really bad, o_0 its a misunderstanding waiting to happen.
Fuck Jesus! These poor, poor kids are being brainwashed and abused by these insane christian bastards! If Jesus were here today, I'd torture his ass for WEEKS before I killed the asshole for all the insanity that he has inspired, like the kids in this video!
Love thy neighbors and one another like Jesus loving us "John 13:34" including your enemies, embracing bad people and teaching them love, turn the other cheek. Being tolerant and accepting all people and striving for peace is what I want. Not hate and violents
Your book of lies means nothing to me. Quote it all you like, it affects nothing. If I read the Torah or the Koran to you, would you be impressed? An archaic book of violence, race hate, sexual depravity, and repression is hardly the type of material to win over new fans don't you think?
Most people are more concerned with that I call myself christian then praying for peace for all. I even defend atheists about taking in god we trust and under god out. I want all discrimnation to end
Religion as an institution has historically been the primary originator of discrimination, from race-related to belief-related discrimination. It would seem that a worldwide general departure from religion would help IMMENSELY in the aim for peace. This is the primary reason why many people despise religion, because they would desire a peaceful and rational world, just like you seem to want.
Christians even discriminate against fellow Christians. The U.S. was founded by Christians to escape religious persecution by other Christians! Protestants look down on Catholics, and both look down on Mormons (a.k.a. The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints) But they aren't real Christians, right? But Evangelicals are?? Bush and Pat Robertson say they are going to Heaven. This is enough for me to run the other way because I don't want to see their kind for an eternity.
Religion has ruined faith. Faith in the Holy Spirit is great, but people putting their own twist creating a "religion" has done nothing but tear apart beliefs. Why do you think there is like 20 branches of Christianity, and why are evangelicals always trying press their religion? I listen to christ not preachers.
I agree. Im a christian and I follow the bible an God. I have seen a lot of churches that are dressed up very fancy but they seem very dead on the inside. Religion is ok to me as long as the focus is on God and not the religion (and it encourages the sinners prayer [Jesus sacrafice.]) Thats all that matters in this shortly lived life : )
If you listen to "delawareboi22" it makes sence in modern language what that means is that if you really believe in christ then you will believe it and lay your life down THE SAME WAY THAT JESUS DID. Not with a bomb straped to your chest but like a lamb being slain. Do not compare christianity to muslim because they are completely opposite muslims take lives, christians (rather jesus) gives life. END OF STORY.
The term "lay down your life" means: Give up all of your own desires to follow Jesus. It doesnt mean kill yourself or others for the sake of Christ. I pray for you that you will learn to listen more to the word of God and not jump to what Satin is telling you..God is Good he would never tell anyone to kill themselves or others.Read the Bible it explains it all in there.
excuse me didnt gos tell isaac or someone to kill his son!!?? and i know he was just 'testing' him but you said and i quote! "God is Good he would never tell anyone to kill themselves or others"
Yes that is correct an angel called out at the last second. And they found a small ram cought in a bush or thicket and that was the sacrifice : ) the christian God does not except human sacrifice. He wants the type of dedication and will power to be focused on him for good though, not death and murder.
Jus' like satan has a army of children God has the same thing. These people are a good example for God. You won't lay your life down for god why is cause you like your life. But who ever loves there life more than they love God will lose it. If you except Jesus Christ into your life You will be like these christians too. But you are not cause you are not in the truth. you are being blinded by sin. I pray that God will bless the ones who put these comments on here about these young chrildren.
How can this remind you of Nazi's..These people are trying to save our country from evil that satin has set upon us. Raising our children to follow Christ is the ONLY way this world will find peace.. God is Good not Bad.. He isnt Evil..Satin is the one thats evil. Wake up World...
Type "The Real History of the Crusades" and "The Politcally Incorrect Guide to Islam and the Crusades" and "Jihad begot the Crusades" on Yahoo, Ask or Altavista !
And BTW, the Crusades were just a defensive war to stop the Muslim hordes from destroying Cristianity ; by the time the Crusades were lunched, Jihad had been raging against Christians for almost 500 years and 3/2 of Christiandom had been devoured by Islam.
Actually Crusades was an excuses for the Pop to invade the none Christian countries and take away their money and land. It was one of the biggest violation of human rights in our history. Crusaders were killing and tourturing Christians as we as Muslims who lives there. You need to learn your history.
YulieAna is right, chritians was the first who attacked islamic realm (in the name of their religion. Templar were well known to be merciless. If I remember, the "slogan" if I can say that, for the first crusade was "God want it" and when the first crusade (most composed by french beleivers) took Jerusalem, they executed 40k people, Islamists, jews and christians alike, Christianity at his best.
Yes, if they were really taking their religion literally, that big fat dike would be sitting in the women's section, barefoot and pregnant... hell, what would she be doing outside the kitchen anyway ???
Christians have killed in the name of their religion. The crusades, the Spanish inqasition, the colonization of north amarica. Every where they went they forced the native populations to become christian or die. The U.S. calls it self a "christian nation" and they have the most powerful weapons on earth. The bible has always seid "thow shalt not kill", How can you then even hold a gun. your liers
Boy, aren't you a loser... you must feel so insecure with yourself that you have to oppress women... and quote some made up fictional story to do it?
This was my life. Sweet babies...hold on. Life's going to get a lot, lot better.
MorpheaCerise 1 year ago
This is child abuse. The parents of these children should be ashamed. Go up to your URL bar, put a Q between the words you and tube and then press enter or click go.
BackTheFUNKUpFool 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Count: 2
Religious indoctrination is child abuse.
If you agree, copy, paste, and increase count by one.
(social experiment)
Heyaitsjohn 2 years ago
I live in Norway and by using YouTube i've seen a lot of weird stuff, 90% from USA. Mostly harmless and funny.
But after seing this, I almost had tears in my eyes. Those poor kids! IT IS SIMPLY SICK! It is legalized child abuse. But those brain washed adults that is a part of it can not or will not see how sick it is.
I too believe in Jesus Christ. But when i saw this i realized that it had nothing to do with what the Bible teaches.
Sick.
strangelman 2 years ago 3
if you teach a child in the path of one religion and keep it ignorant, good chance the chil's trust in you will cause him/her to still blindly believe that religion as an adult, no matter, unless they start learning real things while they're still young.
children are gullable when they're young, proof:santa:tooth fairy,boogy man,god
zamrok73 2 years ago
very powerful, even if the US is a secular government by the first ammendment it doesnt stop the religious from;
1. deciding who gets into government
2. getting into government and pushing their religious veiws on others
DeemotheAthiest 2 years ago
Count: 1
Religious indoctrination is child abuse.
If you agree, copy, paste, and increase count by one.
(social experiment)
EntinludeX 2 years ago 8
this is so appropriate becuase my parents are forcing me to go to centrifuge (a bible camp) this summer....theres no telling what im going to see, but if i see shit like this im walking out....
bluestrobe1 3 years ago 3
oh...dear...that is sick
jb1990xxx 3 years ago 2
if i got a child from birth and raised it in a path of Satanism, and evil cults then they would cry for Satan, and ask for forgivness, how do the leaders of Jesus Camp think that the children are actually 100% in knowledge of why they are crying about and they scream "No More!", WTF! kids havent been exposed to the horros of life and alredy they are crying and screaming about how they dont want it anymore. ABSOLUTY PATHETIC!
kingromain 3 years ago
it sickens me that these children are not given a chance to be normal, or not given a chance to be exposed to realities of life that simply deny most of this crap being taught. firmly i would not put myh faith in a god who takes happiness seeing thousands chanting your-name and crying their eyes out. personally i would feel like hitler.
kingromain 3 years ago 6
these kids, from a phychological point of view, are being brainwashed. if a kid growns up in these radical situtation then they have no choice but to go along with it, most of them are too young and uneducated to know what is right and wat is serriously screwed up. the fat woman leading this complete "near cult" community is so fat and ugly, and failed so hard at life, that she using all her remaining energy into hoping that there is an afterlife (so she can try, and probly fail again)
kingromain 3 years ago
indoctrinated psychopath
ScientologySucksAss 3 years ago
she said she wants more dead children, right?..ok praise jeebus
Bockatadi 3 years ago
They have to get this shit into kids' heads while their brains are still soft enough to believe it. No atheist adult will ever pick up a bible and be convinced that a talking snake told a woman to eat a fruit, and accept that as an explanation for why child bearing hurts.
federalD 3 years ago 3
agreed, it was once said by a christian, "give me a child for the first 7 years of thier life and i will give you a man" religion has to get them when they are still young and naive, very few people convert in later life, unless it is due to personal experience, but even then it is based on what was taught when they were younger but rejected
DeemotheAthiest 2 years ago
Whoa... Thats some sick crap...
Tokagawa89 3 years ago 3
"Our firm belief is, there are two types of people in the world, people who love Jesus, and people who don't" Anyone ever notice how Christians do nothing better than separate people?
shadowmorman 3 years ago 2
Yeah, she's right. I've always disagreed with evangelicals... but what they're doing to our nations youth is intolerable. We're sinking to our enemy's level. Just think: instead of one of those pictures were a young mid-east boy is holding an AK-47 we'll have young Americans holding M-16s, and they'll be dying and they'll be dying and blowing themselves up for "God". More like a political machine. Like she says: why can't we all tolerate each other in peace?
DrakLibratr 3 years ago
I'm Catholic and this is over kill. she said she wants them laying down there lives like in islam, and israel. She's talking about suicide bombings. because those few people think that blowing up many people and themselves is Gods work. And actually that is looked down upon by the greater part of the Muslim community. what About Jewish people. they don't see Jesus as the Messiah but that does not mean they are the enemy. looks more like a cult following to me.
alvarista 3 years ago
your catholic? JEEZ Catholicism is an evil cult!!
Convert and repent!!!!
marker853 3 years ago
"that is looked down upon by the greater part of the Muslim community."
in the Quaran it says that non beleivers (non-muslims) should be killed where they are found, if they attack you you should kill them.
can you see why they blow people up? its right there in their holy book, and the reward for matryrdom gives them a reason to blow themselves up aswell.
DeemotheAthiest 2 years ago
That is a lie , it says do not oppress and do not be oppressed .............if one wants to prevent u from worshipping than u should fight . some people see occupation and taking over ressource and intenationl bullism as keeping them from worshipping. The truth is that u or I do not know what and why or how the wars are being lead . So u dont know and I dont know .................only God knows best
EdugeBDroN 2 years ago
These kids are completely and utterly brainwashed, this is disgusting. I almost threw up watching this movie.
Jinglesanator 3 years ago
My friend DID throw up
AndRod29 3 years ago
all these children are so brainwashed. its terrible to see this
wwapii 4 years ago
this makes me sick that they they are brainwashed into believing the bible. it should be a choice...
it makes me sick, and im a christian.(and a mayer fan)
SkiAltaSnowbird 4 years ago
SkiAltaSnowbird, if you are a Christian like you say you are then you should know that Proverbs 22:6 says, "Train up a child in the wayhe should go: and when he is old he will not depart from it." What kind of Christian are you?
AV8R4HM 3 years ago
I agree with you entirely, it should be a choice. period.
Jinglesanator 3 years ago
those "born again" fanatical bible-hum per cultists, support every evil that godless secular nation does "in the name of God" whether it's moral or immoral. Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people. There is no ultimate or eternal things in the universe, there are only passing events and it is up to individual to grasp the reality.
moronologist 4 years ago
I do agree that it is causing a rift between ppl and its funny how so many ppl say they are for peace but yet call all others that dont beleive like them or ask questions are goin to hell because you dont see it or you where not raised that way. Really I hopwe someday ppl lrn that if your for peace then do it instead of war.
Krensharpaw 4 years ago 2
Jesus camp is a very-very-very sick cult. Bible-hum per Becky Fischer a very sick fat female, teaching lie and brainwashing innocent children. She is a sick Child Abuser.
djsatory 4 years ago 4
I am so pleased and happy this hypocrite fat piece of shit Jerry Falwell pig died. Those "born again" fanatical bible-humper cultists, support every evil that godless secular nation does "in the name of God" whether it's moral or immoral. Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people. There is no ultimate or eternal things in the universe, there are only passing events and it is up to individual to grasp the reality.
moronologist 4 years ago
becky's a cunt.
CultCraze 4 years ago
She sure is and a fat one at that.
TheDarkLordLucifer 4 years ago 3
"Or are you too busy trying to tell others how to raise theirs? "
But you have no problem telling everyone else what they should do and if they don't then they are going to hell, right? It works both ways buddy.
jimitl5 4 years ago
When did any of these kids tell anyone they would burn in hell? It's not in this movie. Again, you are making assumptions.
JesusCamper 4 years ago
watch the movie guy they might as well come out instead of jsut goin around the question. As they said you are either a beleiver or your not. Its kind of there if you know what your lookin for.
Krensharpaw 4 years ago 2
Child abuse.
sig0 4 years ago
Why, because you say so? Who made you the judge? You don't know these people--you've seen a 4 min clip. Have you even seen the movie? Have you gone to their website, jesuscampersdotcom? Or are you just as big a bigot as you think they are?
JesusCamper 4 years ago
no because these kids are being manipulated. don't force this shit down their throats. do you see how insane this is? this is religion being taken a step too far.
seoulbeatz 4 years ago
You need to do a little research about these people. A four minute clip cannot do anyone justice. Go to jesusdotcom and open your mind a bit.
JesusCamper 4 years ago
jesus camp is a sick cult!
Instead of just constantly spamming these boards with invitations to visit a fanatical cult's BS website dedicated to psychological and emotional child abuse, why don't you do try doing something positive for a change?
TheDarkLordLucifer 4 years ago
Newspin 4 years ago
That "God" needs to be "god". jesuscampersdotcom for a bit of information.
JesusCamper 4 years ago
That text fits everybody who thinks that he or she does something because "the lord" told him / her so... You´re all nuts and none of you is justified. Neither by moral standards, NOR any supersticious divinity!
Newspin 4 years ago
Wow, how narrowminded.
JesusCamper 4 years ago
Dude, common sense. If you believe someone is talking to you and there's no one else in the room then you've got a problem. A psychological one! And if that voice tells you to fight a war for him, I'd say you also got some anger issues...
Newspin 4 years ago
Why does teaching kids to pray, work for others and be compassionate to others scare you? Don't you think kids are capable of learning to be interested in something other than Hannah Montana and Britney Spears?
JesusCamper 4 years ago
"Why does teaching kids to pray, work for others and be compassionate to others scare you? "
There is nothing wrong with that, but this camp crossed the line. These kids were serving more the agenda of the adults running the camp then they were God.
jimitl5 4 years ago
how do you know? Were you there? You saw 86 minutes of over 320 HOURS of footage. You don't know what went on before or after. Plus, every organization I know has an agenda. They all "proselytize", raise their kids in their belief systems. All of them, schools, media, parents. Why is it only christian parents and clubs that aren't supposed to do this?
JesusCamper 4 years ago
"Why is it only christian parents and clubs that aren't supposed to do this?"
Do you favor changes in the Constitution that favor evangelcals and create Christianity as the official religion of the US?
jimitl5 4 years ago
Of course not. All I'm saying is leave "state" out of church and my home. Since you support separation of church and state, (as do I) you should see no problem with this.
JesusCamper 4 years ago
"Since you support separation of church and state, (as do I) you should see no problem with this."
Then we have no argument!
jimitl5 4 years ago
So, why do you keep arguing?
JesusCamper 4 years ago
"So, why do you keep arguing?"
I'm not, are you?
jimitl5 4 years ago
Yes
AV8R4HM 3 years ago
Yes
AV8R4HM 3 years ago
Your F***** up if you think this is healthy for these kids. brainwashing. This all disgusts me.
Jinglesanator 3 years ago
jesus camp is a sick cult!
Instead of just constantly spamming these boards with invitations to visit a fanatical cult's BS website dedicated to psychological and emotional child abuse, why don't you do try doing something positive for a change?
TheDarkLordLucifer 4 years ago
Speaking in spamming--I have received about 35 comments from you. Must have struck a nerve, huh? Go and do something positive yourself!
JesusCamper 4 years ago
I am doing something positive. Protecting innocent kids from your sick, abusive, brainwashing cult is positive.
TheDarkLordLucifer 4 years ago
jesus camp is a sick cult!
Instead of just constantly spamming these boards with invitations to visit a fanatical cult's BS website dedicated to psychological and emotional child abuse, why don't you do try doing something positive for a change?
TheDarkLordLucifer 4 years ago
2 words- god sucks
palmtree456 4 years ago
Heil Fischer!
Gunganbuster 4 years ago
I bet if this was a video of a bunch of muslems the FBI CIA and every other gov agency would be making up shit to take these kids and throw these fanatices in jail
muttergeo 4 years ago
I completely agree. Where's the persecution the Christians delude themselves into thinking they suffer???
MightyAgamemnon 4 years ago
why isnt anybody doing anything to put a stop to this? can you imagine what will happen when these children grow up? my parents tried to brainwash me when i was a kid but thankfully i have a brain, unlike some others i could name. jesus camp must die at all costs
1337DementedOne 4 years ago
freedom of religion my friend. Unless we can show abuse the state cant do crap. Mental abuse is too debatable to lay charges on them.
muttergeo 4 years ago
"freedom of religion my friend."
So you can justify this type of mind control?
jimitl5 4 years ago
"freedom of religion my friend. "
I see, so you can do anything in the name of God. There is also "freedon from religion". I prefer tha latter.
jimitl5 4 years ago
I agree--I wish government would leave religion alone!
JesusCamper 4 years ago
"I agree--I wish government would leave religion alone!"
You are correct but it also works the other way around. Religion should leave government alone as well. Huckabee needs to learn that there is nothing wrong with the Constitution the way it is.
jimitl5 4 years ago
Well, in this case something HAS to be done. I am pretty sure that most of America won't mind but I can assure you, here in Germany something like that would not go unnnoticed or rather ignored in this case... There is a movie, so people know about those "camps"...
Newspin 4 years ago
"Well, in this case something HAS to be done."
Apparently, this camp was closed down shortly after the documentary came out. I am not sure who was instrumental in getting it done and whether or not it was parental influence that did it.
jimitl5 4 years ago
Oh gosh thats good to hear. Those scenes were frightening... :-/
Newspin 4 years ago
It was closed down because it was vandalized. Anyway, Ms. Fischer only used the camp 4 days out of the year. It was used by numerous groups all summer long. Sad it had to close because of bigots.
JesusCamper 4 years ago
"It was closed down because it was vandalized"
Gee I wonder why?
" Anyway, Ms. Fischer only used the camp 4 days out of the year."
So that justifies what they were doing?
" It was used by numerous groups all summer long. "
Price they paid for allowing this monstrosity.
"Sad it had to close because of bigots."
Well, we know where you stand on the exploitation of children.
jimitl5 4 years ago
So, you support people breaking the law if they feel what they're doing is justified because they don't like what someone else is doing? Sounds like you support the government getting involved in religion. Doesn't that breach the whole "seperation of church and state" wall you are so fond of quoting?
JesusCamper 4 years ago
"So, you support people breaking the law if they feel what they're doing is justified because they don't like what someone else is doing?"
Show me where I said the vandalism was justified. I might undertand why it might have been done but I don't condone it.
jimitl5 4 years ago
You seem to support it and even be gleeful that the camp used by Ms. Fischer was vandalized. Should only atheists or non-christians be able to use camps? Hardly sounds like freedom of religion to me.
JesusCamper 4 years ago
" Sounds like you support the government getting involved in religion."
No I don't but at the same time religion needs to stay out of government. I support the Establishment Clause of the Constitution of the US. Creationists seem to have a hard time keeping their collective noses out of our business.
jimitl5 4 years ago
Constitution guarantees freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. Should only non-religious people be in gov't? We are a plural society, why should only those who believe the bible be silenced?
JesusCamper 4 years ago
"Constitution guarantees freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion."
You totally do not get it. People have much a right to be free from your influence as much as you have a right to practice your religion. That is why the Establishment Clause exists within the Constitution.
jimitl5 4 years ago
I agree 100 percent. Now if only we could get courts to agree.
JesusCamper 4 years ago
"I agree 100 percent. Now if only we could get courts to agree."
The courts have upheld the Establishment Clause of the Constitution and I bet you have a problem with that. Evangelical Christians will not be happy until they are running everyones lives for them.
jimitl5 4 years ago
I don't want to run anyone's life. I want to be left alone to raise my kids as I see fit without the gov't or you telling me how I should do it. Do you even have children? Or are you too busy trying to tell others how to raise theirs? What business is it of yours if these people want to raise their kids this way? They are not your kids! This is still America, thank God, and not Europe.
JesusCamper 4 years ago
What's up with Europe I wonder? And since you bring it up. Indoctrination is one of the things that led to WWII. A diffenrent kind, but still one that preys on hatred.
Newspin 4 years ago
Teachcing our children to care about others, pray for them and want the best for them is not indoctrination. Indoctrination is what public schools and media advertising engage in.
JesusCamper 4 years ago
"I want to be left alone to raise my kids as I see fit without the gov't or you telling me how I should do it. Do you even have children?"
You can raise your kids the way you want. Mine are in college (one in teacher ed program the other a student in Wildlife Technology). However, my experience with many fundamentalists is that while they want to be left alone, at the same time they wish to have influence over everyone else. If I am wrong about you fine, I am sorry.
jimitl5 4 years ago
I suppose I do want to influence my kids. I want them to be productive, successful contributors to society. One already is as they are on their own , serving in our military. Just because someone believes the bible and wants to teach their kids a certain way doesn't mean their Fred Phelps.
JesusCamper 4 years ago
"I suppose I do want to influence my kids. I want them to be productive, successful contributors to society. "
Fine, great! But leave those who don't want your religious doctrines alone.
jimitl5 4 years ago
When have these kids in this film every done anything that shows they don't leave others alone? You are assuming.
JesusCamper 4 years ago
"When have these kids in this film every done anything that shows they don't leave others alone?"
The message they are given is that they should target the non-believer. They are at war for God. The message seems clear to me. Its them against the secular world.
jimitl5 4 years ago
Nothing against Jesus, but Evengelicals are a prime example of why more and more people are becoming non-religious. Shame on them. This is not what Christianity is about. Christianity is teaching with the spirit, not brainwashing!
imnvrgvnup 4 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This people don't know what manner of spirit they are. READ LUKE 9:51-56 Jesus neither want to make an army, nor need soldiers to conquer humanity's heart. Eventually, and by His graceful love, humanity will fall for Him.
vivafrik 4 years ago
Let the flying spaghetti god have mercy on their souls....
I won't say that the possibility of a god is rediculous, just that any religion is rediculous. Every religion calls themselves the right one, you have to include all world religions, all the past religions, all the different branches of religion, ect. So when it all comes down to it, even these people who believe in God have (literally) a one out of billion chance of getting into heaven.
DrHannibalLecterMD 4 years ago
not completely true
some religions, such as Hinduism, believe that there are many paths to god and all the counts are your actions
but yeah anyone who believes that there way is the only way prolly only has a one in a billion chance to get into heaven or w/e you want to call it
batterboy206 4 years ago
O.O im sorry im christian and even i think thats too dramatic i mean for god sakes their kids jese
USMCmarinej 4 years ago
children of the corn
dethtrain 4 years ago
Those poor kids. There childhood has been stolen from them.
Animorphikus 4 years ago 2
As i've made some in other jesus camp video's i need to say it again is that those parents of those kids should be ashmed of themselves for forcing the religion they know it is there fault and not there children's Ted Haggard should also be ashmed especially him
friendhope 4 years ago
ultimately though, the kids are at fault b/c they willfully accept it.
when i was their age, i also had to go to these "jesus camps" but i'm not religious at all today. these kids choose to accept it and they choose to perform these actions.
fluffynoses 4 years ago
humans learn from there parents this is just sick brainwashing dont blame to kids blame the phycho parents
justin1o0 4 years ago
Yep this is again very screwed up sick twisted religion that is becoming a very sad part of American and world future's
friendhope 4 years ago
i like cupkakes
andrewpate22 4 years ago
all those below me just remember we need different view points and need to present different views. I believe that these kids have every right to pray for our president and be different if they want to. what is so wrong with that .
paulwebb1 4 years ago
that fat bitch needs to declare war against her refrigerator and all the fast food restaurants in her small little corner of the world.
meak911 4 years ago 5
So true! Bitch needs to declare war on the refrigerator and the "Golden Arches"!
DrHannibalLecterMD 4 years ago 2
Exereme evangelicals, running the country; that would be scary
tristaniafan 4 years ago 5
funny how most of those countries that fat bitch listed are Jewish countries.
jakerodely 4 years ago
Actually, only Israel is Jewish. Pakistan is muslim, and Palestine isn't an independent country, but it has a Muslim majority.
Meirstein 4 years ago
Atheism is the way,you sheep.
dlgsag 4 years ago
Asatru is the way, good sir.
zeonicgeneral 4 years ago
Suck it, Jesus!!
elperropatron 4 years ago
Today is Sunday: You are going to Hell if you let people work on Sunday because you disobeyed God:
# Exodus 31:15
For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.
Today is also CONVULSION on the floor day. Kill anyone who doesn't have convulsions on the floor. You can by mild arsenic pills to help with convulsions.
Welcome to Hitler's Camp
scriptureplease 4 years ago 2
i fucking hate jesus cause hes a little bitch and fuck you bitch go too hell and suck your gods dick
graffitibomb 4 years ago
wow, VERY relevant to the video! Asshole...
dandodo 4 years ago
Jesus never existed, it's like the tooth fairy. Only most Americans don't have enough brains to figure this out. The result is the expected, a nation completly submitted to Christian Evangelists and the governments. They can't even think for themselves, Christian Evangelists DO ALL THE THINKING. ALL of it. If you start thinking on your own, you are either ignored or called a blasphemer... or even maybe put to death.
scriptureplease 4 years ago
Tolerance is the best path. Not hate. And I am an Atheist saying this. Jesus, no matter if he is real or not, messiah or not, God or not, is undoubtedly impactful to our lives. The Bible is a very interesting story, and although I think it little more realistic than 1984, we must respect those who disagree for the right reason.
prophesize 4 years ago 2
Their is plenty of proof that he did exist, whether or not he was the son of God is debatable... Even jesus would debate that. He said he was the son of God but calle everyone Gods childred. So what is the difference between your child and your son?
somedirtyhippie 4 years ago
Heil Hitler!
Yeah! From the Bible ONLY. Also you can't even respect the words HE says, you take God's words out of context. God doesn't condemn homosexuality, you pick and choose what fits your agenda to come up with self-serving crap like: divorces and garbage trash remarriage between a whore and an adulter at the alter.
THERE ARE NO proof he exist more than there is about the tooth fairy. Tooth fairy doesn't have a self-righteous self serving book.
Homophobia is from Hell, it is hatred.
george2u2 4 years ago
When did I say I don't respect homosexuals? And speaking of hatred your the one typing out a fit of rage. Also there is just as much proof of Jesus Christ having lived as there is for any other historical figure. Saying he lived isn't saying he was the son of God.
somedirtyhippie 4 years ago
good song...that's about it
rawkcity111 4 years ago
thank you very much ^_^
GUCIGIRL 4 years ago
I understand what she means but why she had to say it like that I have no clue??? Im a christian so I will translate what she is TRYING to say lol. What she means is that she wants christians to be as dedicated to the lord/bible as muslims are to killing themselves (in a sence.) In doing so that also applies to the ten commandments "thou shalt not kill." Or become a suicide bomber for that matter lol.
flankill 4 years ago
Wow she never thought saying that would be misunderstood??? I hope that clears it up a little.. She should not be making references between christianety and Islam like that because it just sounds really really bad, o_0 its a misunderstanding waiting to happen.
God bless her though seriously. Im with her : )
flankill 4 years ago
The sad, terrible things people do in the name of the Lord...
TheBurial 4 years ago
Faith is for those who don't want to know the TRUTH. It's because of fuckers like these we had the dark ages.
fatefinger 4 years ago
imagine wat they could accomplish if they didnt spend all that time in church and in these insane christian (brainwashing) camps
smartalec788 4 years ago
Fuck Jesus! These poor, poor kids are being brainwashed and abused by these insane christian bastards! If Jesus were here today, I'd torture his ass for WEEKS before I killed the asshole for all the insanity that he has inspired, like the kids in this video!
gregonamus 4 years ago
Love thy neighbors and one another like Jesus loving us "John 13:34" including your enemies, embracing bad people and teaching them love, turn the other cheek. Being tolerant and accepting all people and striving for peace is what I want. Not hate and violents
sybok1981 4 years ago
Your book of lies means nothing to me. Quote it all you like, it affects nothing. If I read the Torah or the Koran to you, would you be impressed? An archaic book of violence, race hate, sexual depravity, and repression is hardly the type of material to win over new fans don't you think?
gregonamus 4 years ago
Most people are more concerned with that I call myself christian then praying for peace for all. I even defend atheists about taking in god we trust and under god out. I want all discrimnation to end
sybok1981 4 years ago
Religion as an institution has historically been the primary originator of discrimination, from race-related to belief-related discrimination. It would seem that a worldwide general departure from religion would help IMMENSELY in the aim for peace. This is the primary reason why many people despise religion, because they would desire a peaceful and rational world, just like you seem to want.
gregonamus 4 years ago
Christians even discriminate against fellow Christians. The U.S. was founded by Christians to escape religious persecution by other Christians! Protestants look down on Catholics, and both look down on Mormons (a.k.a. The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints) But they aren't real Christians, right? But Evangelicals are?? Bush and Pat Robertson say they are going to Heaven. This is enough for me to run the other way because I don't want to see their kind for an eternity.
SinnerJesus 4 years ago
Religion has ruined faith. Faith in the Holy Spirit is great, but people putting their own twist creating a "religion" has done nothing but tear apart beliefs. Why do you think there is like 20 branches of Christianity, and why are evangelicals always trying press their religion? I listen to christ not preachers.
Timma15 4 years ago
I agree. Im a christian and I follow the bible an God. I have seen a lot of churches that are dressed up very fancy but they seem very dead on the inside. Religion is ok to me as long as the focus is on God and not the religion (and it encourages the sinners prayer [Jesus sacrafice.]) Thats all that matters in this shortly lived life : )
flankill 4 years ago
agreed
stoaton 4 years ago
If you listen to "delawareboi22" it makes sence in modern language what that means is that if you really believe in christ then you will believe it and lay your life down THE SAME WAY THAT JESUS DID. Not with a bomb straped to your chest but like a lamb being slain. Do not compare christianity to muslim because they are completely opposite muslims take lives, christians (rather jesus) gives life. END OF STORY.
God is the Beginning and the End.
Alpha and Omega.
Lion and the Lamb.
flankill 4 years ago
"He that cometh to me in the name of the lord Jesus shall be saved."
flankill 4 years ago
any religion that tells its kids to lay down their life is full of shit.
ZacharyWDS17 4 years ago
The term "lay down your life" means: Give up all of your own desires to follow Jesus. It doesnt mean kill yourself or others for the sake of Christ. I pray for you that you will learn to listen more to the word of God and not jump to what Satin is telling you..God is Good he would never tell anyone to kill themselves or others.Read the Bible it explains it all in there.
larissas2007 4 years ago
Ive read the bible, its full of bullshit lies, which is why i chose atheism. Dont try to convert me to your lies.
ZacharyWDS17 4 years ago
excuse me didnt gos tell isaac or someone to kill his son!!?? and i know he was just 'testing' him but you said and i quote! "God is Good he would never tell anyone to kill themselves or others"
Dave25892 4 years ago
Yes that is correct an angel called out at the last second. And they found a small ram cought in a bush or thicket and that was the sacrifice : ) the christian God does not except human sacrifice. He wants the type of dedication and will power to be focused on him for good though, not death and murder.
flankill 4 years ago
Don't listen to Satin, kids...or any other types of fabric for that matter.
evilreddot 4 years ago
Jus' like satan has a army of children God has the same thing. These people are a good example for God. You won't lay your life down for god why is cause you like your life. But who ever loves there life more than they love God will lose it. If you except Jesus Christ into your life You will be like these christians too. But you are not cause you are not in the truth. you are being blinded by sin. I pray that God will bless the ones who put these comments on here about these young chrildren.
delawareboi22 4 years ago
weirdo
samuelshepard 4 years ago
reminds me of the Nazi Youth
maXja 4 years ago
How can this remind you of Nazi's..These people are trying to save our country from evil that satin has set upon us. Raising our children to follow Christ is the ONLY way this world will find peace.. God is Good not Bad.. He isnt Evil..Satin is the one thats evil. Wake up World...
larissas2007 4 years ago
I rather enjoy the feeling of Satin. My pillow covers are made of a Satin fabric. Are you calling Satin evil because you are pro-cotton!!!
gregonamus 4 years ago
What about the sin of eating too much? Looks like someone really likes twinkies!
mknk11 4 years ago
Type "The Real History of the Crusades" and "The Politcally Incorrect Guide to Islam and the Crusades" and "Jihad begot the Crusades" on Yahoo, Ask or Altavista !
Stop yor Islamic victimisation YulieAna.
balleperdue 4 years ago
WOW
YeTdOnnO 4 years ago
And BTW, the Crusades were just a defensive war to stop the Muslim hordes from destroying Cristianity ; by the time the Crusades were lunched, Jihad had been raging against Christians for almost 500 years and 3/2 of Christiandom had been devoured by Islam.
balleperdue 4 years ago
Actually Crusades was an excuses for the Pop to invade the none Christian countries and take away their money and land. It was one of the biggest violation of human rights in our history. Crusaders were killing and tourturing Christians as we as Muslims who lives there. You need to learn your history.
YulieAna 4 years ago
YulieAna is right, chritians was the first who attacked islamic realm (in the name of their religion. Templar were well known to be merciless. If I remember, the "slogan" if I can say that, for the first crusade was "God want it" and when the first crusade (most composed by french beleivers) took Jerusalem, they executed 40k people, Islamists, jews and christians alike, Christianity at his best.
Agnostic for life.
pimpmywand 4 years ago
Nah, now that I read the lyrics this song is crap.
We evangelicals win in the end, doesn't matters who hard you will try to kill us, WE WILL WIN.
balleperdue 4 years ago
what?tell me that you are joaking!!!!
whatsupdock367 4 years ago
Sois un peu plus précis.
pimpmywand 4 years ago
Yes thanks, I had not waited before the end of the video before asking the question, sorry.
balleperdue 4 years ago
What's the name of the song ?
balleperdue 4 years ago
"Belief" by John Mayer
GUCIGIRL 4 years ago
you stupid rednecks. Drop dead every last one of you.
Deadlytrick 4 years ago
Oops, me bad... sorry for calling you a loser.
Yes, if they were really taking their religion literally, that big fat dike would be sitting in the women's section, barefoot and pregnant... hell, what would she be doing outside the kitchen anyway ???
lalunette 4 years ago
Christians have killed in the name of their religion. The crusades, the Spanish inqasition, the colonization of north amarica. Every where they went they forced the native populations to become christian or die. The U.S. calls it self a "christian nation" and they have the most powerful weapons on earth. The bible has always seid "thow shalt not kill", How can you then even hold a gun. your liers
tazomazoplazo 4 years ago
If I were religious, and I'm fervently not, I would AMEN to that brother !!!
lalunette 4 years ago
Boy, aren't you a loser... you must feel so insecure with yourself that you have to oppress women... and quote some made up fictional story to do it?
lalunette 4 years ago
there is a reason why certainï