Let me get this straight, we AUTOMATICALLY assume vaccines work and for them not to work, it's the people who don't get vaccinated. Ridiculous. Vaccines should defend against ALL exposure to the viruses regardless of the source, that's the reason for vaccination, right? It fails every logic test.
I have only watched four minutes and it is obvious this host is leaning to the pro-vaccine side. The other doctor has hardly spoken and the lady in the audience was totally cut off before she finished what she was saying.
Everyone watching this. Ask yourself this, is it morally right to sacrifice tens of thousands of people so that others may be safe in the future? I would say no. Vaccinations are nothing more than controlled epidemics. People push that away by saying it's for the greater good, but I do not consider risking thousands of lives now, to be a greater good.
conspiricy does not say a god damn thing!!! the word is insulting!! what is conspiricy!!! and does it only aply to human beings that are not in gov. or made a sheep by mass depression!!!
conspiricy does not say a god damn thing!!! the word is insulting!! what is conspiricy!!! and does it only aply to human beings that are not in gov. or made a sheep mass depression!!!
Okay so you don't know enough to comment, but you've "researched" enough to decide not to vaccinate? You don't know enough to talk about it, but you know enough to risk your child's life and other children's lives? Awesome.
@foresam. What "mangles brains" is agruing facts with quasi religious zealouts. The baby died due to exposure to the unwashed spawn of vaccine denialists. The baby is not a red herring and your comment is offensive.
@foresam to call me a pharma whore is to imply I receive money for services. For the record I do not. I am a parent concerned that false information from the likes of you which (if believed) will result in babies dying.
@Richeaux Whores are not necessarily prostitutes. I don't present any false information. These vaccines could be made with no mercury and no aluminum. Then, they'd be safe. That's the matter that you have to address if you want to present a genuine argument instead of your disingenuous red herrings.
@foresam "I don't present any false information. These vaccines could be made with no mercury and no aluminum. Then, they'd be safe. " You just contradicted yourself. First you said you didn't present any false information, then you presented false information. There is no evidence that mercury in vaccines causes any problem in any human being or that it ever has ever. There is, however, mountains of evidence that Mumps, Measles, and Rubella vaccines are extremely effective and low-risk.
@watermelonygoodness Just tell us why you lie about this. Everyone knows that mercury causes autism. The evidence has been presented over the last twelve years and here we have liars like you talking about vaccines that don't even contain any mercury. Offer a genuine rebuttal or shut up.
@foresam I'm sure you'll be glad to know that the CDC did a case control study in 2010 and found no association between thimerosol (mercury containing stuff) and autism etc. You will also be happy to hear that it has been taken OUT of vaccines as your cult's 'scare campaign' was placing herd immunity at risk through misinformation. I won't take any more of your time as I expect you'll be racing out the door to get your kids immunised! PS you don't make money from selling homeo-vaccines, do you?
@Richeaux Mercury is still in vaccines. The amount in the flu shot to pregnant women equates to 200 times the alleged "safe" dose for fetuses. This causes spontaneous miscarriages and horrific brain damage to fetuses. The CDC has not told the truth about vaccines since they let us know how mercury causes autism in 1999. That's why were able to start curing autism a year later by chelating that mercury our of brains. Now go blow a corrupt politician and leave babies alone.
@foresam So are you saying the CDC is reliable or not? You cant quote them AND say they are now lying! Did you get your degree in a cereal box? Or from the school of majikal medicine! Bwahahahaha! Hey, seriously, don't put a spell on me......
@foresam I'm not going anywhere mate. (I enjoy making you look like a dickhead- sorry) And your inference that I have not graduated is as baseless as your Autism claims. Tell me 'foresam' do you believe that the 'Jews' are behind vaccination? most conspiricy theorists work that in somewhere!
@foresam writes: "If you want to dabate, you have to use argument, not insults and innuendo." Well dickhead, if you can't take it, don't dish it out.
On the other hand, you have chlorine and sodium in you everyday diet. Either one of these is deadly in their pure form, as well as their acidic forms, yet in the form of salts they are indispensable - without them in your diet you'll quickly fall ill and die.
So simply saying "well it has mercury in it" means nothing, please state the studies which link thiomersal to any side-effects.
@morelbel Ok Pharma Whore, the first study you should look at is the Verstraeten study from 1999. I can't find it on the internet now but perhaps you'll have better luck. It's referenced at the Simpsonwood meeting from 2000. You can probably find that. While you're at it, please show me the safety study that was done on thimerosal.
Interestingly enough, a Verstraeten search on google came up with pubmed 14595043 on the nih gov web.
On the other hand, it is rather amusing that a person who thinks that we should give thousands to tens of thousands of dollars (see the price of anti-retroviral medications, as well as the needed follow-up treatments, hospital time etc) for treatment of diseases, rather then phase them out with 50 dollar vaccines is calling other names.
Your baby who died from whooping cough is regrettable but, for the purposes of this debate, it's just a Red Herring. It has nothing to do with the fact that mercury in those vaccines mangles brains. Argue genuinely or shut up.
@foresam Your body can handle small amounts of mercury. You would have to ingest more mercury than you know what to do with in order for it to "mangle your brain."
@foresam You are the one who is lying. There is no evidence at all to back up what you're saying. You are either a) saying this based on a sort of hunch you have or b) saying this based on something someone else with a sort of hunch said to you. Either way, hunches, instincts, and gut reactions are not science.
The pro-vax mum was concerned to have her child exposed to an older unvaccinated child (having just nursed her child through whooping cough) and all the other mum could say to her is, "fair enough that's great"... it is fair enough so go and get your kids vaccinated!! But "great" ... what? Was she even listening? Where do these parents get their information? The AVN? If they get their info from the AVN they need to go back to school and take some critical literacy lessons...
The McCaffery's knew nill about the AVN, who chose to attack them in a splendid display of petulant insecurity, paranoia, predetermined agendas, in-group behaviour and blind devotion to cult leader Dorey. Why? Because the McCaffery's put themselves behind the interests of Australian's asking people to seek "reputable advice". The AVN took this personally. This speaks of an evidence free, reputable free conspiracy mob. Reacting repulsively reveals them foremost as peddlers of hatred, not choice.
@firesnakepodcast That's a lie; the McCafferys knew about the AVN. You use dramatic language to describe the AVN. If you keep on repeating that the AVN is a cult, you may eventually believe it, but those involved, will just laugh. It is the McCafferys who have reacted repulsively by accusing non-vaccinators of putting others children at risk. When did it become okay to incite hatred against people exercising a legal health decision?
@VaccinationAustralia The truth is well documented. Hate mail to grieving parents? And now, no charitable status for a criminal organisation. Bwhahahaha
@twisteddsister I think you accidently removed this - "Which truth is that? Making enquiries with a public health official about the diagnosis of the child who was being utilised in a vax campaign? Alleged harassing letters and emails from members of the AVN? My favourite is the comments made by Najla on Dana McCaffery's FB page, bona fide member of the AVN, or planted there to be used on Lateline report? Set up start to finish. Bwahahahaha."
@firesnakepodcast The HCCC noted accusations of harassment. They remain allegations only. The identities of the alleged perpetrators as bona fide members of the AVN has not been established. What about Naj's comments (featured on Lateline story) on the FB Wall of Dana McCaffery? Bona fide member or a plant by those who wish to close down the AVN. Setup? I think. I did not find the McCaffery's allegations convincing.
@twisteddsister So, basically your argument is one of persecution from grieving parents, who allowed abuse of a memorial page to fallaciously discredit the AVN, at the same time that their integrity would influence government agency decisions. Fake profiles can be discerned simply by visiting the profile page. URL differs, profile details are missing information kept private for genuine friends and avatars are often imperfectly reproduced. Your conspiracy lacks evidence. Please provide proof.
@firesnakepodcast Re:Hate Mail-I've not seen the evidence of such.Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's been a while since I read the HCCC report.The McCaffreys sought and obtained confidentiality of their complaint under provisions of the Act which prevented public release of their accusations of harassment, claiming they feared harassment if the details were released.They allegedly feared harassment yet appeared on Lateline soon after the release of the report.Doesn't ring true I'm afraid.
@firesnakepodcast cont Re:Hate Mail.Meryl has repeatedly stated she will terminate membership of the alleged offenders, but nothing has been forthcoming from the McCaffreys.Meryl/AVN have no control over action taken by members independently of the organisation.The HCCC even noted that Facebook comments on the AVN group were not under the control of the AVN.What's the difference? Is it fair and just to hold Meryl responsible for the alleged actions of others who may or may not be AVN members? No
@firesnakepodcast Re:Grieving parents.Yes,grieving parents engaged in an extremely nasty and hateful campaign against Meryl Dorey and the AVN.They were so grief stricken they managed to make a complaint against the AVN, appear on National television a number of times, including the fit-up Lateline story maligning the AVN.At the same time they claim they are only campaigning for a booster program. For fucks sake, they could at least be honest of their true motives.
@firesnakepodcast Guess what, the whooping cough epidemic is still in full swing and you lot are still flogging a dead horse, attributing every case of it to the AVN. Heaps of it in Victoria, where vaccination rates are high, yet you fuckwits will still blame Meryl and the AVN. OMG the influence of Meryl and the AVN is so extensive and pervasive you might as well give up now. Do you honestly believe anything will change if the AVN closes? I mean really. Fuckwits.
@VaccinationAustralia You're drowning in a false dichotomy. Meryl is a criminal & rips off her members like the $11,000 she got b/w March and June '09 for an autism ad in Copeland pub. Generation rescue were going to pay a third. Going on final donation rate, only 8 days were needed to meet the target. But they set a 3 day limit so they could pocket the money. Where is it? Where's the money for independent testing? Parliamentary visits and printing? Copeland NEVER run AVN. Tens of thousands gone
@firesnakepodcast So,in the end it comes down to money.I couldn't care less where my membership monies go. If Meryl wishes to take an o/s trip in her role within the AVN, why would I care. I certainly don't wish to travel o/s. I'm far more concerned about my tax dollars funding a corrupt pharmaceutical/scientific industry than some pissy amount of money I contribute to the AVN.It's heartening to know that if the AVN goes under, it will be for financial mismanagement and not it's core activities.
@VaccinationAustralia Apart from your foul mouth, you've been depersonalised just as Meryl intended. Her aim is to suck money out of gullible members. Go through Living Ignorance and count up how many "urgent" appeals, impending closures, and false stories about rescuing babies from DoCS. Only one ever happened, the others are a money grabbing tactic. No wonder you're angry. Plainly gullible and scammed by a disturbed woman. SAVN blame Meryl for lying and never claim otherwise. You're paranoid.
@firesnakepodcast The McCafferys also spent large amounts of time monitoring blogs/discussions and bleated harassment about any adverse comments. Bleated harassment, then proceeded to engage in the finest example of harassment and persecution of an individual I have ever seen.If you they want to get nasty then they should expect the same back and Harden the Fuck Up.
@VaccinationAustralia "Why would they have an expectation that members of the AVN and others who reject vaccination would not find this offensive and rebut their claims vigorously, just because their child died?"
The AVN reject vaccination? Not according to Meryl Dorey. They are pro-choice (not)!
I dare you to call them a "group who reject vaccination" on their Facebook page.
Banhammer will follow shortly afterwards. Ironic, isn't it?
@mainline11 Many members of the AVN reject vaccination for theselves and/or families. That is quite a different thing than saying the AVN is a group which rejects vaccination. The AVN as an organisation is pro-choice. Do you see the difference?
@VaccinationAustralia "BTW, are you a medical student, who really doesn't give a fuck about the McCafferys, but are merely offended because some people dare to question vaccination and won't take what the doctor ordered."
I am sure that I am not in the top 1%, IQ wise, but I reckon there should be a question mark at the end of that sentence.
@mainline11 Looks like AVN censorship is alive and well. Unlike Facebook they can't hide deletion of plead "a glitch". Personally I don't care, but members who are censored and deleted and exploited and scammed out of money and used to peddle misinformation should be.
@Momo56rocks Aaaah, the troopers arrived while I've been gone. The AVN has never scammed anyone out of money, and anyway, some things are far more important than money. I'd happily pay Meryl a wage for all the persecution she has been subjected to. Poor book-keeping: Big Fucken Deal.
@Momo56rocks What a sad and tragic person you must be if you honestly believe that the AVN has been scamming anyone out of money. Many of us do actually believe in the cause. How would the citizens of Australia ever survive without you looking out for them? Too funny.
How can you talk about informed choice when you refuse to accept the evidence and think somehow you know more than the people who have spent many years studying.
But of course you like Meryl have a brain - its just shame you've never read the user's manual. The users manual says that you should learn from people who have studied and have a greater knowldege than you.
@Momo56rocks They've spent years studying a particular paradigm and rules, to the exclusion of most else. This by itself doesn't make their "knowledge" an absolute truth. At the core of this debate, once you peel back the layers of subterfuge, is a mentality that everyone should just do what "the experts" say,which you have just demonstrated by your comments.You don't really believe in choice, you just throw the term "informed choice" around, with the aim of sounding moderate.
Toni McCaffery "I didn't want to be the vaccination crusader" Hollow words Toni McCaffery. You are a vaccination crusader (still). You have incited hatred against people who decline vaccination, resulting in death threats, internet, phone, and physical stalking. You have created this mess. You cannot just say: leave us alone. go to avn.org.au blog for a few of the examples of the vileness you have incited by your fawning followers.
@VaccinationAustralia -where is your evidence for your vicious accusations against Toni McCaffrey? There was plenty of evidence of the vicious campaign against the McCaffreys presented to the HCCC investigation of the AVN and you still persist. How do you sleep at night doing that to a family who have lost a young child.
@Momo56rocks The McCafferys are bitter people who sought retribution for their child's death by inciting hatred against non-vaccinators, and this includes making a complaint about the AVN to the HCCC. Why would they have an expectation that members of the AVN and others who reject vaccination would not find this offensive and rebut their claims vigorously, just because their child died? Apart from their comments in this video, they have been quoted as saying that Dana was a victim of ignorance
@VaccinationAustralia I think that you are attacking the McCafferys because you can see that their tragedy is a community pressure point that makes your little band of denialists look like a danger to society.
I wish we could be born immunised so you might make your "choices" without risking yet to be immunised babies.
@Richeaux If you consider my highlighting the McCafferys hateful comments as an attack on them, well so be it. Many people face tragedies in their lives, but you seem to be arguing that this gives them a licence to direct accusations at people exercising a legal choice, without a right of defence or reply. It isn't that long ago that homosexuals were the target of bigots who claimed they were spreading a 'gay plague' even though this is a legal activity. See the parallel? You are bigots.
@VaccinationAustralia name calling....settle down friend. I admire your passion. Why don't you re-read some of your posts. I think hatred is something you might want to address internally.
@Momo56rocks As someone who has rejected vaccination as dangerous and ineffective, I find it incredibly offensive to be accused of putting, not just my child at risk but everyone elses as well. The fact these words come from a grieving parent in no way excuses their behaviour. Yes, they have every right to say these nasty things, just as we have every right to defend ourselves. Whooping Cough never left. Stop using us as scapegoats.
@Momo56rocks What vicious accusations are those? Are you referring to the truthful accusations? How do you sleep at night when you live your life with hatred towards those whose choices differ from your own? You are a nasty bigot, I am not.
@naturalmotionraptor Reporter:"What would you say to those parents who still refuse to vaccinate their children?"
Toni McCaffery:"You're not only putting your child at risk, you're putting every child out there at risk."
Please explain how Toni McCaffery isn't blaming parents who don't vaccinate their children for the death of Dana. She repeatedly claims she does not, yet she states that right here.The MCafferys do apportion blame to the unvaccinated as do the Stop the AVN. Stop lying please
@VaccinationAustralia It's not a question of blame it's a question of saving children's lives and saving other parents from going through this kind of loss, which is something I can only assume the AVN does not care about in the slightest.
@naturalmotionraptor Unfortunately, it is a question of blame. How can you say it isn't? The McCafferys repeatedly lie about this fact. Then they have the audacity to plead leave us alone, or have their pathetic henchmen from the Stop the AVN make threats to leave them alone. They are vaccination activists who have incited a nasty campaign against the AVN. Why do they expect to be left alone when the AVN is not left alone? They are public figures who chose this path.
@VaccinationAustralia I can say it isn't because I am not that pathetically petty. I actually care about public health and the needless deaths of children, rather than who said what to whom. You and the AVN dwell on trivial nonsense when people's lives are at stake, grow up. SAVN exists to silence a group that stopped listening to reason long ago. If you did have a legitimate concern over a vaccine you could have taken it up with a doctor or even the TGA. You instead chose abuse and paranoia.
@naturalmotionraptor Have you seen the thatmeryl channel? If that is legitimate activism as opposed to nasty personal character assasination, well I look forward to the 'thattonianddavid' channel, and the StoptheAVNExposed channel. Vile and disgusting people that they are.
@VaccinationAustralia. Perhaps the shrill internal shrieking of your paranoid delusions has resulted in your insensitivity to the parents of a child killed by a preventable disease. I think you need to have a long hard look at yourselves. BTW portraying yourselves as victims is quite frankly, pathetic.
@Richeaux No paranoid delusions. Did you zealots ever stop to consider why Toni MCCaffery has been led to believe that no baby will die if everyone surrounding a baby is vaccinated? Why are you setting parents up for devastation when no such certainty exists, and as a result incite hatred by blaming those who decline vaccination. You are revolting exploitative pigs with an oversized sense of your own importance. Who the fuck put you or the SAVN in charge?
@VaccinationAustralia I'm sorry angry person. I usually find that the use of profanity tends to indicate either a poor argument or an intelectual inability to sustain a good argument. Other tricks of the 'factually deficient' include the "straw man argument" technique like accusing me of telling the McCafferys, well...anything at all! I have never communicated with them at all. PS . I refute that I have incited hatred toward anyone. I am pro INFORMED choice. Go have a herbal tea and a nap!
@Richeaux What a predictable response. I'd be happy to go head to head on an IQ test. I know what my IQ is and I'm in the top 1%. BTW, are you a medical student, who really doesn't give a fuck about the McCafferys, but are merely offended because some people dare to question vaccination and won't take what the doctor ordered. There's a few of those. What are your true motives for attaching yourself to the McCaffery's campaign? Retribution? What a hero.
@VaccinationAustralia Nope, not a med student. Why don't you use your enormous IQ to have another guess;) But I am a Dad and do genuinely feel sympathy for this family!
As I have stated before, using profanity is a sign of a weak argument or a weak mind. I don't want to question the validity of your IQ test but the evidence is stacking up....
Perhaps at this point I should leave you alone as you are getting a bit steamed up. I'd hate to be responsible for triggering you to do some thing rash.
@Richeaux Don't tell me it's skeptidad? What a fucken hero. You are the one who raised intellect, in fact you seem quite obsessed by it. Is it that you feel inferior? Does it make you feel all better to question someone elses's intellect? How sad for you.
@VaccinationAustralia G'day VA, skeptidad here. I was looking back to find where I brought up intellect and actually I was making a comment on the use of profanity as a marker for an inability to sustain a rational argument. There is a difference. Rather than seeing it as a comment on your fairly impolite affect you saw it as a criticism of your IQ. So in summary (and I'll keep it simple) I was calling you rude not stupid. You seem to have taken care of the latter all by your self! See ya.
@Richeaux For Fucks Sake, are you still going on about it? I've obviously struck a nerve with regard to the issue of your intellect. You seem a little preoccupied with it. Insecure about it? Well tell someone who gives a fuck. Of far greater importance is your moral bankruptcy in participating in a persecution campaign against an individual and insignificant organisation in memory of a dead infant. Shameful, and that has nothing to do with intellect. Now fuck off! There's a good skeptidad.
@VaccinationAustralia Calm down princess. Read my past post properly. I don't care how smart you think you are (Google: Dunning-Kruger...) I called you RUDE (not stupid) and your reply starts "for F*cks sake...". I really don't think you quite get it.
Have you thought about how you come across to casual reader. Perhaps you might gain more support with less agro.
PS I certainly hope you have better manners in person!
@Richeaux "Have you thought about how you come across to casual reader. Perhaps you might gain more support with less agro."
Romeo, I'm not looking for support, I'm not running for office. Do you really think I'd be losing any sleep if your ilk doesn't agree with my views? The fraud of vaccination will be exposed one day. LOL In the meantime, feel free to vaccinate. I've been working on an antivaccination website. I'll send you the link when it's ready.
@VaccinationAustralia Good luck with the website 'lil fella. BTW if me and my ilk did agree with you, you would just change your mind just to be contrary. You would find some other lunatic fringe issue to try to get attention for...If you are not looking for support, why are you continuing to inflict your paranoia on the rest of us. Why not just shut up and be quietly content with your arrogant delusions? Did mum not give you enough hugs? C'mere, c'mon, bring it in...there-there.....Better now?
@VaccinationAustralia " I've had the whoop a couple of times. If I get it again, I'll deal with it. " Try not to cough on any unvaccinated children or babies while dealing with it...
@VaccinationAustralia I have never seen the McCaffery's behave in a bitter or nasty manner. They are both incredibly articulate and thoughful people. Did it ever occur to you that the Mcaffery's saying Dana was a victim of ignorance that they were talking about their own ignorance that they were living in a part of Australia that has one of the lowest vaccination rates.
We have just gone through a pertussis epidemic and newborns are the ones most at risk.
@Richeaux I probably covered the issue of "informed choice" in another comment, but I will repeat it. You utilise the term "informed choice" for the purpose of sounding measured and moderate, when you really believe that everyone should just do what the "experts" tell them. I, on the other hand, truly support choice. I would not and have never criticised or vilified someone for vaccinating, even though I don't myself. See the difference?
@naturalmotionraptor If and when there is 100% vaccination rate who will you blame then? A small number of babies will still die. Stop misrepresenting the facts.
@VaccinationAustralia The basic reproduction number of pertussis is between 12 and 17, which means that once the percentage of the community successfully vaccinated rises above around 95% an outbreak will not be able to sustain itself and deaths will not occur. It's hardly a coincidence that this outbreak occurred in an area with the lowest vaccination rates in the country. If you want facts try actual scientific literature rather than whale.to and other ridiculous conspiracy theories.
Let me get this straight, we AUTOMATICALLY assume vaccines work and for them not to work, it's the people who don't get vaccinated. Ridiculous. Vaccines should defend against ALL exposure to the viruses regardless of the source, that's the reason for vaccination, right? It fails every logic test.
kdhoward83 1 month ago
Pajo Jankovic
pajojankovic 2 months ago
I have only watched four minutes and it is obvious this host is leaning to the pro-vaccine side. The other doctor has hardly spoken and the lady in the audience was totally cut off before she finished what she was saying.
lja000 2 months ago
I refuse too vaccinate because it has animal products(damn thats some serious crap they are putting in vaccines
VIV292 3 months ago
@VIV292 really? thats the reason why?
metfan89 3 days ago
@metfan89 yes>why because it goes against my diet of being a Vegan/raw foods basically I choose not too use processed animal products meats and dairy
VIV292 3 days ago
Everyone watching this. Ask yourself this, is it morally right to sacrifice tens of thousands of people so that others may be safe in the future? I would say no. Vaccinations are nothing more than controlled epidemics. People push that away by saying it's for the greater good, but I do not consider risking thousands of lives now, to be a greater good.
bweazel 3 months ago
1:20. It was 100% your responsibility. Own up to it. Sorry for your loss, but diseases exist and sometimes bad things happen to good people.
bweazel 3 months ago
conspiricy does not say a god damn thing!!! the word is insulting!! what is conspiricy!!! and does it only aply to human beings that are not in gov. or made a sheep by mass depression!!!
charliecolemanmends 5 months ago
conspiricy does not say a god damn thing!!! the word is insulting!! what is conspiricy!!! and does it only aply to human beings that are not in gov. or made a sheep mass depression!!!
charliecolemanmends 5 months ago
Okay so you don't know enough to comment, but you've "researched" enough to decide not to vaccinate? You don't know enough to talk about it, but you know enough to risk your child's life and other children's lives? Awesome.
watermelonygoodness 7 months ago
@foresam. What "mangles brains" is agruing facts with quasi religious zealouts. The baby died due to exposure to the unwashed spawn of vaccine denialists. The baby is not a red herring and your comment is offensive.
Richeaux 11 months ago
@Richeaux Yuh, Ok Pharma whore.
foresam 7 months ago
@foresam to call me a pharma whore is to imply I receive money for services. For the record I do not. I am a parent concerned that false information from the likes of you which (if believed) will result in babies dying.
Richeaux 7 months ago
@Richeaux Whores are not necessarily prostitutes. I don't present any false information. These vaccines could be made with no mercury and no aluminum. Then, they'd be safe. That's the matter that you have to address if you want to present a genuine argument instead of your disingenuous red herrings.
foresam 7 months ago
@foresam "I don't present any false information. These vaccines could be made with no mercury and no aluminum. Then, they'd be safe. " You just contradicted yourself. First you said you didn't present any false information, then you presented false information. There is no evidence that mercury in vaccines causes any problem in any human being or that it ever has ever. There is, however, mountains of evidence that Mumps, Measles, and Rubella vaccines are extremely effective and low-risk.
watermelonygoodness 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@watermelonygoodness Just tell us why you lie about this. Everyone knows that mercury causes autism. The evidence has been presented over the last twelve years and here we have liars like you talking about vaccines that don't even contain any mercury. Offer a genuine rebuttal or shut up.
foresam 7 months ago
@foresam I'm sure you'll be glad to know that the CDC did a case control study in 2010 and found no association between thimerosol (mercury containing stuff) and autism etc. You will also be happy to hear that it has been taken OUT of vaccines as your cult's 'scare campaign' was placing herd immunity at risk through misinformation. I won't take any more of your time as I expect you'll be racing out the door to get your kids immunised! PS you don't make money from selling homeo-vaccines, do you?
Richeaux 7 months ago
@Richeaux Mercury is still in vaccines. The amount in the flu shot to pregnant women equates to 200 times the alleged "safe" dose for fetuses. This causes spontaneous miscarriages and horrific brain damage to fetuses. The CDC has not told the truth about vaccines since they let us know how mercury causes autism in 1999. That's why were able to start curing autism a year later by chelating that mercury our of brains. Now go blow a corrupt politician and leave babies alone.
foresam 7 months ago
@foresam So are you saying the CDC is reliable or not? You cant quote them AND say they are now lying! Did you get your degree in a cereal box? Or from the school of majikal medicine! Bwahahahaha! Hey, seriously, don't put a spell on me......
Richeaux 7 months ago
@Richeaux When you graduate, come back here and argue like an adult.
foresam 7 months ago
@foresam I'm not going anywhere mate. (I enjoy making you look like a dickhead- sorry) And your inference that I have not graduated is as baseless as your Autism claims. Tell me 'foresam' do you believe that the 'Jews' are behind vaccination? most conspiricy theorists work that in somewhere!
Richeaux 7 months ago
@Richeaux If you want to dabate, you have to use argument, not insults and innuendo.
foresam 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@foresam writes: "If you want to dabate, you have to use argument, not insults and innuendo." Well dickhead, if you can't take it, don't dish it out.
Richeaux 7 months ago
@foresam
[mercury is still in vaccines]
Yes, in the form of thiomersal.
On the other hand, you have chlorine and sodium in you everyday diet. Either one of these is deadly in their pure form, as well as their acidic forms, yet in the form of salts they are indispensable - without them in your diet you'll quickly fall ill and die.
So simply saying "well it has mercury in it" means nothing, please state the studies which link thiomersal to any side-effects.
morelbel 5 months ago
@morelbel Ok Pharma Whore, the first study you should look at is the Verstraeten study from 1999. I can't find it on the internet now but perhaps you'll have better luck. It's referenced at the Simpsonwood meeting from 2000. You can probably find that. While you're at it, please show me the safety study that was done on thimerosal.
foresam 5 months ago
@foresam
Interestingly enough, a Verstraeten search on google came up with pubmed 14595043 on the nih gov web.
On the other hand, it is rather amusing that a person who thinks that we should give thousands to tens of thousands of dollars (see the price of anti-retroviral medications, as well as the needed follow-up treatments, hospital time etc) for treatment of diseases, rather then phase them out with 50 dollar vaccines is calling other names.
Is that really the best you can do? :))))
morelbel 5 months ago
Your baby who died from whooping cough is regrettable but, for the purposes of this debate, it's just a Red Herring. It has nothing to do with the fact that mercury in those vaccines mangles brains. Argue genuinely or shut up.
foresam 11 months ago
@foresam Your body can handle small amounts of mercury. You would have to ingest more mercury than you know what to do with in order for it to "mangle your brain."
watermelonygoodness 7 months ago
@watermelonygoodness Stop lying. Babies without blood brain barriers can not handle.
foresam 7 months ago
@foresam You are the one who is lying. There is no evidence at all to back up what you're saying. You are either a) saying this based on a sort of hunch you have or b) saying this based on something someone else with a sort of hunch said to you. Either way, hunches, instincts, and gut reactions are not science.
watermelonygoodness 7 months ago
The pro-vax mum was concerned to have her child exposed to an older unvaccinated child (having just nursed her child through whooping cough) and all the other mum could say to her is, "fair enough that's great"... it is fair enough so go and get your kids vaccinated!! But "great" ... what? Was she even listening? Where do these parents get their information? The AVN? If they get their info from the AVN they need to go back to school and take some critical literacy lessons...
plahski 1 year ago
The McCaffery's knew nill about the AVN, who chose to attack them in a splendid display of petulant insecurity, paranoia, predetermined agendas, in-group behaviour and blind devotion to cult leader Dorey. Why? Because the McCaffery's put themselves behind the interests of Australian's asking people to seek "reputable advice". The AVN took this personally. This speaks of an evidence free, reputable free conspiracy mob. Reacting repulsively reveals them foremost as peddlers of hatred, not choice.
firesnakepodcast 1 year ago
@firesnakepodcast That's a lie; the McCafferys knew about the AVN. You use dramatic language to describe the AVN. If you keep on repeating that the AVN is a cult, you may eventually believe it, but those involved, will just laugh. It is the McCafferys who have reacted repulsively by accusing non-vaccinators of putting others children at risk. When did it become okay to incite hatred against people exercising a legal health decision?
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
@VaccinationAustralia The truth is well documented. Hate mail to grieving parents? And now, no charitable status for a criminal organisation. Bwhahahaha
firesnakepodcast 1 year ago
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twisteddsister 1 year ago
@twisteddsister I think you accidently removed this - "Which truth is that? Making enquiries with a public health official about the diagnosis of the child who was being utilised in a vax campaign? Alleged harassing letters and emails from members of the AVN? My favourite is the comments made by Najla on Dana McCaffery's FB page, bona fide member of the AVN, or planted there to be used on Lateline report? Set up start to finish. Bwahahahaha."
firesnakepodcast 1 year ago
@firesnakepodcast The HCCC noted accusations of harassment. They remain allegations only. The identities of the alleged perpetrators as bona fide members of the AVN has not been established. What about Naj's comments (featured on Lateline story) on the FB Wall of Dana McCaffery? Bona fide member or a plant by those who wish to close down the AVN. Setup? I think. I did not find the McCaffery's allegations convincing.
twisteddsister 1 year ago
@twisteddsister So, basically your argument is one of persecution from grieving parents, who allowed abuse of a memorial page to fallaciously discredit the AVN, at the same time that their integrity would influence government agency decisions. Fake profiles can be discerned simply by visiting the profile page. URL differs, profile details are missing information kept private for genuine friends and avatars are often imperfectly reproduced. Your conspiracy lacks evidence. Please provide proof.
firesnakepodcast 1 year ago
@firesnakepodcast Re:Hate Mail-I've not seen the evidence of such.Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's been a while since I read the HCCC report.The McCaffreys sought and obtained confidentiality of their complaint under provisions of the Act which prevented public release of their accusations of harassment, claiming they feared harassment if the details were released.They allegedly feared harassment yet appeared on Lateline soon after the release of the report.Doesn't ring true I'm afraid.
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
@firesnakepodcast cont Re:Hate Mail.Meryl has repeatedly stated she will terminate membership of the alleged offenders, but nothing has been forthcoming from the McCaffreys.Meryl/AVN have no control over action taken by members independently of the organisation.The HCCC even noted that Facebook comments on the AVN group were not under the control of the AVN.What's the difference? Is it fair and just to hold Meryl responsible for the alleged actions of others who may or may not be AVN members? No
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
@firesnakepodcast Re:Grieving parents.Yes,grieving parents engaged in an extremely nasty and hateful campaign against Meryl Dorey and the AVN.They were so grief stricken they managed to make a complaint against the AVN, appear on National television a number of times, including the fit-up Lateline story maligning the AVN.At the same time they claim they are only campaigning for a booster program. For fucks sake, they could at least be honest of their true motives.
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
@firesnakepodcast Guess what, the whooping cough epidemic is still in full swing and you lot are still flogging a dead horse, attributing every case of it to the AVN. Heaps of it in Victoria, where vaccination rates are high, yet you fuckwits will still blame Meryl and the AVN. OMG the influence of Meryl and the AVN is so extensive and pervasive you might as well give up now. Do you honestly believe anything will change if the AVN closes? I mean really. Fuckwits.
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
@VaccinationAustralia You're drowning in a false dichotomy. Meryl is a criminal & rips off her members like the $11,000 she got b/w March and June '09 for an autism ad in Copeland pub. Generation rescue were going to pay a third. Going on final donation rate, only 8 days were needed to meet the target. But they set a 3 day limit so they could pocket the money. Where is it? Where's the money for independent testing? Parliamentary visits and printing? Copeland NEVER run AVN. Tens of thousands gone
firesnakepodcast 1 year ago
@firesnakepodcast So,in the end it comes down to money.I couldn't care less where my membership monies go. If Meryl wishes to take an o/s trip in her role within the AVN, why would I care. I certainly don't wish to travel o/s. I'm far more concerned about my tax dollars funding a corrupt pharmaceutical/scientific industry than some pissy amount of money I contribute to the AVN.It's heartening to know that if the AVN goes under, it will be for financial mismanagement and not it's core activities.
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
@VaccinationAustralia Apart from your foul mouth, you've been depersonalised just as Meryl intended. Her aim is to suck money out of gullible members. Go through Living Ignorance and count up how many "urgent" appeals, impending closures, and false stories about rescuing babies from DoCS. Only one ever happened, the others are a money grabbing tactic. No wonder you're angry. Plainly gullible and scammed by a disturbed woman. SAVN blame Meryl for lying and never claim otherwise. You're paranoid.
firesnakepodcast 1 year ago
@firesnakepodcast The McCafferys also spent large amounts of time monitoring blogs/discussions and bleated harassment about any adverse comments. Bleated harassment, then proceeded to engage in the finest example of harassment and persecution of an individual I have ever seen.If you they want to get nasty then they should expect the same back and Harden the Fuck Up.
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
@VaccinationAustralia "Why would they have an expectation that members of the AVN and others who reject vaccination would not find this offensive and rebut their claims vigorously, just because their child died?"
The AVN reject vaccination? Not according to Meryl Dorey. They are pro-choice (not)!
I dare you to call them a "group who reject vaccination" on their Facebook page.
Banhammer will follow shortly afterwards. Ironic, isn't it?
mainline11 1 year ago
@mainline11 Many members of the AVN reject vaccination for theselves and/or families. That is quite a different thing than saying the AVN is a group which rejects vaccination. The AVN as an organisation is pro-choice. Do you see the difference?
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
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@VaccinationAustralia "BTW, are you a medical student, who really doesn't give a fuck about the McCafferys, but are merely offended because some people dare to question vaccination and won't take what the doctor ordered."
I am sure that I am not in the top 1%, IQ wise, but I reckon there should be a question mark at the end of that sentence.
mainline11 1 year ago
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mainline11 1 year ago
@mainline11 Looks like AVN censorship is alive and well. Unlike Facebook they can't hide deletion of plead "a glitch". Personally I don't care, but members who are censored and deleted and exploited and scammed out of money and used to peddle misinformation should be.
firesnakepodcast 1 year ago
@firesnakepodcast Well they won't be scamming money out of anybody now thanks to the OLGR
Momo56rocks 1 year ago
@Momo56rocks Aaaah, the troopers arrived while I've been gone. The AVN has never scammed anyone out of money, and anyway, some things are far more important than money. I'd happily pay Meryl a wage for all the persecution she has been subjected to. Poor book-keeping: Big Fucken Deal.
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
@Momo56rocks What a sad and tragic person you must be if you honestly believe that the AVN has been scamming anyone out of money. Many of us do actually believe in the cause. How would the citizens of Australia ever survive without you looking out for them? Too funny.
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
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mainline11 1 year ago
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mainline11 1 year ago
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mainline11 1 year ago
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mainline11 1 year ago
How can you talk about informed choice when you refuse to accept the evidence and think somehow you know more than the people who have spent many years studying.
But of course you like Meryl have a brain - its just shame you've never read the user's manual. The users manual says that you should learn from people who have studied and have a greater knowldege than you.
Momo56rocks 1 year ago
@Momo56rocks They've spent years studying a particular paradigm and rules, to the exclusion of most else. This by itself doesn't make their "knowledge" an absolute truth. At the core of this debate, once you peel back the layers of subterfuge, is a mentality that everyone should just do what "the experts" say,which you have just demonstrated by your comments.You don't really believe in choice, you just throw the term "informed choice" around, with the aim of sounding moderate.
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
the simple truth is that vaccinations WORK and are effective
B4IRUTUARU16 1 year ago
Toni McCaffery "I didn't want to be the vaccination crusader" Hollow words Toni McCaffery. You are a vaccination crusader (still). You have incited hatred against people who decline vaccination, resulting in death threats, internet, phone, and physical stalking. You have created this mess. You cannot just say: leave us alone. go to avn.org.au blog for a few of the examples of the vileness you have incited by your fawning followers.
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
@VaccinationAustralia -where is your evidence for your vicious accusations against Toni McCaffrey? There was plenty of evidence of the vicious campaign against the McCaffreys presented to the HCCC investigation of the AVN and you still persist. How do you sleep at night doing that to a family who have lost a young child.
Momo56rocks 1 year ago
@Momo56rocks The McCafferys are bitter people who sought retribution for their child's death by inciting hatred against non-vaccinators, and this includes making a complaint about the AVN to the HCCC. Why would they have an expectation that members of the AVN and others who reject vaccination would not find this offensive and rebut their claims vigorously, just because their child died? Apart from their comments in this video, they have been quoted as saying that Dana was a victim of ignorance
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
@VaccinationAustralia Your comments are truly reprehensible.
greasegunx 1 year ago
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@greasegunx "Your comments are truly reprehensible." No, Toni McCaffery's comments and the ensuing campaign against the AVN are truly reprehensible.
To quote:
Reporter:"What would you say to those parents who still refuse to vaccinate their children?"
Toni McCaffery:"You're not only putting your child at risk, you're putting every child out there at risk."
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
@VaccinationAustralia I think that you are attacking the McCafferys because you can see that their tragedy is a community pressure point that makes your little band of denialists look like a danger to society.
I wish we could be born immunised so you might make your "choices" without risking yet to be immunised babies.
Richeaux 1 year ago
@Richeaux If you consider my highlighting the McCafferys hateful comments as an attack on them, well so be it. Many people face tragedies in their lives, but you seem to be arguing that this gives them a licence to direct accusations at people exercising a legal choice, without a right of defence or reply. It isn't that long ago that homosexuals were the target of bigots who claimed they were spreading a 'gay plague' even though this is a legal activity. See the parallel? You are bigots.
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
@VaccinationAustralia name calling....settle down friend. I admire your passion. Why don't you re-read some of your posts. I think hatred is something you might want to address internally.
Richeaux 1 year ago
@Momo56rocks As someone who has rejected vaccination as dangerous and ineffective, I find it incredibly offensive to be accused of putting, not just my child at risk but everyone elses as well. The fact these words come from a grieving parent in no way excuses their behaviour. Yes, they have every right to say these nasty things, just as we have every right to defend ourselves. Whooping Cough never left. Stop using us as scapegoats.
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
@Momo56rocks What vicious accusations are those? Are you referring to the truthful accusations? How do you sleep at night when you live your life with hatred towards those whose choices differ from your own? You are a nasty bigot, I am not.
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
Its funny how the world's most successful scientific advancement is contested
WestliFerZul 1 year ago
Thank-you to the McCaffery's.
firesnakepodcast 2 years ago
horrific story, even more horrific that they use a dead baby to push vaccine propoganda
panterastang 2 years ago
@panterastang God forbid they might want to prevent this somehow.
naturalmotionraptor 1 year ago
@naturalmotionraptor Reporter:"What would you say to those parents who still refuse to vaccinate their children?"
Toni McCaffery:"You're not only putting your child at risk, you're putting every child out there at risk."
Please explain how Toni McCaffery isn't blaming parents who don't vaccinate their children for the death of Dana. She repeatedly claims she does not, yet she states that right here.The MCafferys do apportion blame to the unvaccinated as do the Stop the AVN. Stop lying please
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
@VaccinationAustralia It's not a question of blame it's a question of saving children's lives and saving other parents from going through this kind of loss, which is something I can only assume the AVN does not care about in the slightest.
naturalmotionraptor 1 year ago
@naturalmotionraptor Unfortunately, it is a question of blame. How can you say it isn't? The McCafferys repeatedly lie about this fact. Then they have the audacity to plead leave us alone, or have their pathetic henchmen from the Stop the AVN make threats to leave them alone. They are vaccination activists who have incited a nasty campaign against the AVN. Why do they expect to be left alone when the AVN is not left alone? They are public figures who chose this path.
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
@VaccinationAustralia I can say it isn't because I am not that pathetically petty. I actually care about public health and the needless deaths of children, rather than who said what to whom. You and the AVN dwell on trivial nonsense when people's lives are at stake, grow up. SAVN exists to silence a group that stopped listening to reason long ago. If you did have a legitimate concern over a vaccine you could have taken it up with a doctor or even the TGA. You instead chose abuse and paranoia.
naturalmotionraptor 1 year ago
@naturalmotionraptor Have you seen the thatmeryl channel? If that is legitimate activism as opposed to nasty personal character assasination, well I look forward to the 'thattonianddavid' channel, and the StoptheAVNExposed channel. Vile and disgusting people that they are.
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
@VaccinationAustralia. Perhaps the shrill internal shrieking of your paranoid delusions has resulted in your insensitivity to the parents of a child killed by a preventable disease. I think you need to have a long hard look at yourselves. BTW portraying yourselves as victims is quite frankly, pathetic.
Richeaux 1 year ago
@Richeaux No paranoid delusions. Did you zealots ever stop to consider why Toni MCCaffery has been led to believe that no baby will die if everyone surrounding a baby is vaccinated? Why are you setting parents up for devastation when no such certainty exists, and as a result incite hatred by blaming those who decline vaccination. You are revolting exploitative pigs with an oversized sense of your own importance. Who the fuck put you or the SAVN in charge?
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
@VaccinationAustralia I'm sorry angry person. I usually find that the use of profanity tends to indicate either a poor argument or an intelectual inability to sustain a good argument. Other tricks of the 'factually deficient' include the "straw man argument" technique like accusing me of telling the McCafferys, well...anything at all! I have never communicated with them at all. PS . I refute that I have incited hatred toward anyone. I am pro INFORMED choice. Go have a herbal tea and a nap!
Richeaux 1 year ago
@Richeaux What a predictable response. I'd be happy to go head to head on an IQ test. I know what my IQ is and I'm in the top 1%. BTW, are you a medical student, who really doesn't give a fuck about the McCafferys, but are merely offended because some people dare to question vaccination and won't take what the doctor ordered. There's a few of those. What are your true motives for attaching yourself to the McCaffery's campaign? Retribution? What a hero.
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
@VaccinationAustralia Nope, not a med student. Why don't you use your enormous IQ to have another guess;) But I am a Dad and do genuinely feel sympathy for this family!
As I have stated before, using profanity is a sign of a weak argument or a weak mind. I don't want to question the validity of your IQ test but the evidence is stacking up....
Perhaps at this point I should leave you alone as you are getting a bit steamed up. I'd hate to be responsible for triggering you to do some thing rash.
Richeaux 1 year ago
@Richeaux Don't tell me it's skeptidad? What a fucken hero. You are the one who raised intellect, in fact you seem quite obsessed by it. Is it that you feel inferior? Does it make you feel all better to question someone elses's intellect? How sad for you.
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
@VaccinationAustralia G'day VA, skeptidad here. I was looking back to find where I brought up intellect and actually I was making a comment on the use of profanity as a marker for an inability to sustain a rational argument. There is a difference. Rather than seeing it as a comment on your fairly impolite affect you saw it as a criticism of your IQ. So in summary (and I'll keep it simple) I was calling you rude not stupid. You seem to have taken care of the latter all by your self! See ya.
Richeaux 1 year ago
@Richeaux For Fucks Sake, are you still going on about it? I've obviously struck a nerve with regard to the issue of your intellect. You seem a little preoccupied with it. Insecure about it? Well tell someone who gives a fuck. Of far greater importance is your moral bankruptcy in participating in a persecution campaign against an individual and insignificant organisation in memory of a dead infant. Shameful, and that has nothing to do with intellect. Now fuck off! There's a good skeptidad.
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
@VaccinationAustralia Calm down princess. Read my past post properly. I don't care how smart you think you are (Google: Dunning-Kruger...) I called you RUDE (not stupid) and your reply starts "for F*cks sake...". I really don't think you quite get it.
Have you thought about how you come across to casual reader. Perhaps you might gain more support with less agro.
PS I certainly hope you have better manners in person!
Richeaux 1 year ago
@Richeaux "Have you thought about how you come across to casual reader. Perhaps you might gain more support with less agro."
Romeo, I'm not looking for support, I'm not running for office. Do you really think I'd be losing any sleep if your ilk doesn't agree with my views? The fraud of vaccination will be exposed one day. LOL In the meantime, feel free to vaccinate. I've been working on an antivaccination website. I'll send you the link when it's ready.
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
@VaccinationAustralia Good luck with the website 'lil fella. BTW if me and my ilk did agree with you, you would just change your mind just to be contrary. You would find some other lunatic fringe issue to try to get attention for...If you are not looking for support, why are you continuing to inflict your paranoia on the rest of us. Why not just shut up and be quietly content with your arrogant delusions? Did mum not give you enough hugs? C'mere, c'mon, bring it in...there-there.....Better now?
Richeaux 1 year ago
@VaccinationAustralia Gone a bit quiet young fella. I hope you havent come down with that nasty whooping cough going round...
Richeaux 1 year ago
@Richeaux I'm never quiet Romeo. A bit bored are you? I've had the whoop a couple of times. If I get it again, I'll deal with it.
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
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@VaccinationAustralia " I've had the whoop a couple of times. If I get it again, I'll deal with it. " Try not to cough on any unvaccinated children or babies while dealing with it...
Richeaux 1 year ago
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Momo56rocks 1 year ago
@VaccinationAustralia I have never seen the McCaffery's behave in a bitter or nasty manner. They are both incredibly articulate and thoughful people. Did it ever occur to you that the Mcaffery's saying Dana was a victim of ignorance that they were talking about their own ignorance that they were living in a part of Australia that has one of the lowest vaccination rates.
We have just gone through a pertussis epidemic and newborns are the ones most at risk.
Momo56rocks 1 year ago
@Momo56rocks You stated: "I have never seen the McCaffery's behave in a bitter or nasty manner."
To quote:
Reporter:"What would you say to those parents who still refuse to vaccinate their children?"
Toni McCaffery:"You're not only putting your child at risk, you're putting every child out there at risk."
The McCafferys then made a complaint against the AVN to the HCCC. I'd call that nasty and bitter wouldn't you?
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
@Richeaux I probably covered the issue of "informed choice" in another comment, but I will repeat it. You utilise the term "informed choice" for the purpose of sounding measured and moderate, when you really believe that everyone should just do what the "experts" tell them. I, on the other hand, truly support choice. I would not and have never criticised or vilified someone for vaccinating, even though I don't myself. See the difference?
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
@naturalmotionraptor If and when there is 100% vaccination rate who will you blame then? A small number of babies will still die. Stop misrepresenting the facts.
VaccinationAustralia 1 year ago
@VaccinationAustralia The basic reproduction number of pertussis is between 12 and 17, which means that once the percentage of the community successfully vaccinated rises above around 95% an outbreak will not be able to sustain itself and deaths will not occur. It's hardly a coincidence that this outbreak occurred in an area with the lowest vaccination rates in the country. If you want facts try actual scientific literature rather than whale.to and other ridiculous conspiracy theories.
naturalmotionraptor 1 year ago