1of5 QA Session: Case for BDS [4-12-09 inminds.co.uk]

[FlotillaCrew]

WHY IS NOBODY RAISING THE OBVIOUS??? TARGET ISRAELS DIAMOND INDUSTRY!. ITS THE BIGGEST EARNER FOR THE APARTHEID STATE!!!

[nevskixx]

This is a hatefest gathering . This group offers no hope to those who seek a real peace. It's intentions are full of malevolence and their arguments daft, untrue as they are confusing. If Bongani Masuku incites hatred against Jews, what sort are the people who welcome him. Their hatred of Israel so clouds their judgment that any decency is lost and one wonders what will become of British academia if this thought process is repeated elsewhere. Well done Jonathan Hoffman for raising the issue.

[petersz98]

What nonsense!

In 1961, a prominent South Arican said this, and this was 6 years before the 1967 war:

The Jews took Israel from the Arabs after the Arabs had lived there for a thousand years. Israel like South Africa, is an apartheid state

(Rand Daily Mail, 23 Novemeber 1961).

Those were not the words of Nelson Mandela, Archbishop Tutu or Ruth First, but were uttered by none other than the architect of apartheid itself, racist Prime Minister, Dr. Hendrik Verwoerd.

[nevskixx]

Verwoerd was mistaken, as he was with much to do with justifying apartheid. I have spoken to South Africans critical of Apartheid who have spent time in both countries and whilst they accept that there are tensions between the various strands that make up Israeli society, Apartheid is NOT the word that comes to mind, then or now.

[petersz98]

Your right to some extent. South Africans like Bishop Tutu who have been to the occupied territories are shocked, claiming the oppression is much worse in Palestine than in South Africa. For example South Aficans never bombed the bantustans or sent in tanks and bulldozers destroying peoples' homes. The aim of the Afrikaneers was to exploit the Blacks the aim of the Zionists is to expel and disposess the Arabs. This explains why the oppression is much worse.

[nevskixx]

I was not implying that it was worse. Nor do I accept your assertion that Zionists or Israel's aims are to expel and disposses the Arabs. It's the other way round if you examine the declared aims in both the Fatah's and Hamas's charters. It certainly is not found in the Israel's declaration of independence or anywhere. That's why you will find 20%of Israel's population comprising of Arabs in work, at universities, in parliament, lawyers judges, doctors nurses doing OK. Not apartheid.

[nevskixx]

@petersz98 No. Those activist South Africans against Apartheid that I knew, did not infer that israel was worse than South Africa. South Africa was terrible and the treatment of its citizens , wrong. No comparison.

[petersz98]

Israel is far worse than Apartheid South Africa. The South Africans never bombed the Bantustans with F16s or seiged them cutting off food, medicine and electricity or tortured and imprisoned people without trial or due process. They never used white phosphorous bombs or carried out massacres on the the same scale as Nazi Israel!

[nevskixx]

I thought you were ignorant about South Africa and what you write confirms it.

As for your outburst and  nonsense comment about Israel I can only say - No comment!

[petersz98]

Well I challenge you to point out anything that I said about South Africa is wrong. The fact that you cannot prooves I am right. Name one thing I have said is wrong and show proof or admit I am right.

[nevskixx]

Have you been to South African Petersz during Apartheid? Have you ever been to Israel? Have you lived under the Nazis?Have you lived under Communism? When you are able to tell the difference between margarine and butter perhaps we can have a conversation.

[petersz98]

No and I don't need to go to those places. The fact is South Africans never used F16s, tanks, gunships or white phophorous bombs against the Blacks unlike Israel. South Africa vile as it was under Apartheid never resorted to such despicable barbarism as Israelis. But hey don't take my word for it take the word of Bishop Tutu or Ronnie Kassrils or John Duggard. I would hazard a guess that even Richard Goldstone never encountered such barbarism in South Africa as happened in Gaza!

[nevskixx]

So you haven't got a clue. Listen My family lived under Nazis and under Communists and in Israel. I can assure you I could tell you which was the best for us. As for South Africa, the Black majority did not declare war , fire rockets on civilians call for the destruction of South Africa.Until you can really understand SIMPLE differences and contrasts with real situations instead of talking for the sake of talking, we'll have a conversation.

[nevskixx]

I do not hold hateful thoughts for anyone including Arabs. I am aware of the suffering that continues from time to time when conflict arises, but I am also aware that for the many in israel, the Arab population enjoy untold freedoms that their brothers across the rest of Arabia can only dream about. And this is part of the problem.

[nevskixx]

"I would hazard a guess that even Richard Goldstone never encountered such barbarism in South Africa as happened in Gaza!"

You can keep on hazarding Petersz!

[capitalsho]

You dont have to be an ignorant bitter Jew hater to support the Palastinians. But it helps.

[historicrecord]

Jonathan Hoffman is a courageous individual. The way Hickey refused to answer his question about having a person labelled antisemite by SA Reconcilation committee shows undemocratic mindset

[littlegreenmoth]

Just proves the lie that they are only anti-Zionist. Why shout "Jewish, you are not welcome here" if you are not anti-Semitic? The crowd are no more than apologists for Palestinian fascism and hatred.

[muuuungo]

I am a Jew at SOAS and i will not stand for any sort of anti-semitism at SOAS. If i see it then People will know about it.

[badnewswade]

What a smug, self-righeous piece of shit "in the sea by now" man is. In fact - look at their faces. They bear a remarkable similarity to the "Pro-life Non-smoker face" of which the late Mr. William Hicks spoke so eloquently. Look at their inverted smiles, so filled with self-righteous sanctimony, so convinced that they are Right and everyone else is Wrong.

This is the totalitarian mindset in action, folks - the absolute inability to countenance any point of view other than your own.

[MrBeefmuncher]

Terrorist-loving scum

[alexdeane1]

remarkable anti-semitism. Basic good manners were ignored.

[realitycheck1883]

Jonathan Hoffman of the Zionist Federation is a well known apologist for Israeli war crimes and was justifiably heckled. He has a record of trying to disrupt meetings on Palestine then whining that people were "anti-semitic" towards him.

[nevskixx]

He wasn't just heckled though. There was a successful attempt to curb his right to free speech. That is what disgusts me realitycheck.

[realitycheck1883]

@nevskixx You are missing the point. The meeting was about the BDS movement and support for the Palestinians. Mr Hoffman is well known for going to other people's meeting in order to disrupt them. For example, at the launch of the English edition of Sands' book "The invention of the Jewish People" Hoffman and a few friends spent the meeting shouting "anti-semite!". He embarrasses other Zionists. In this case the chair was right to ask the meeting to ignore him and concentrate on the real issue.

[nevskixx]

If Bongani Masuku incites hatred against Jews, who attended this meeting, isn't Hoffman not right to raise the question realitycheck? I too support the right of Palestinians to self -determination, but would not want to hear rabble., if the BDS allow for racists, black or white, to speak at meetings to perpetuate hatred everyone at that meeting has serious questions to answer. If this conduct is replicated in other universities we are in trouble as a country.

[MaxLoewenthal]

@nevskixx and we too support the right of mr. Hoffman to make a fool out of himself and occupy himself with disinformation. Just let him disrupt his own meetings with it, and not those of his opponents. We know what racism looks like and we have committed our lives to fight it. That's why we became anti-zionists in the first place.

[nevskixx]

As for disruptions, "Anti-zionists " are doing it quite regularly and have been intimidating students on campus wantonly accusing those whose views may be opposed to their own as racists . This too is indecent and unacceptable.

[nevskixx]

@MaxLoewenthal But was it disinformation or was he making an important point? And is putting one's hand up to ask a question, and on being asked to identify himself , which he does, a disruption? Or once he announces his name the others around him are the ones who are disrupting? I would have taken a different view MaxL if you had commented and said, on reflection it was wrong not to have let Mr Hoffman finish his question and for it to have been answered. Perhaps you can answer it for me ?

[chrisjlovell123]

What a horrible example of anti-semitism in modern britain!

[marzutraII]

Fuck I hate British people. Please, all Jews in Britain should leave before it is too late.

[petersz98]

Boycott Israel everyone!

Don't buy anything with bar code #729!

Disrupt Israeli sports teams.

Together we can defeat the evil Zionists like we did with SA!

[wormer105]

Pathetic much petey?

[7yearglitch]

cunt