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From: ForceSC2strategy
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  • how bout carrier's? i've never seen anyone stop mass carrier. what does counter mass carrier?

  • @kibateo depends on race

  • @sierraraiderx2 if u were toss.

  • are immortals good against stalkers?

  • pheonix

    can counter

  • @MegaElite25 not when you have 20+ stalkers with blink...

  • Force, I have a question. I, myslef am a protoss and every time the opponent goes archons and i go collosus, i loose. Are Archons better?

    thnx

  • Force, thanks for producing all these videos. It makes an average player, like myself, better at the game. The way you explain the builds are fantastic compared to other resources.

  • Comment removed

  • how do you stop this build if as a terran player?

  • @MrManoyful

    Same as any other protoss match up.

    Marine, Marauder, Medivac.

    If you see colossus, vikings.

    And all the while teching up to ghosts for EMP.

  • .... how much probes did he have?

  • i think thats to late

  • if you got 4 gated u would have died

  • why does the probe attack the pylon @2:44

  • *only time this is beaten is when you are scouted abd he builds viks* stupid phone auto correct

  • I use this on terrans it rapes the rines and marauder tactic that they all use...only time this it's beaten it's if you are scouted and he then builds viks

  • That is why you have to do immortal drops

  • What can Terran do to counter the early colossus?

  • @golddrive80 just get up some vikings... they rape collosi. If u micro them well you should do fine if you have a decent army going.

  • Way too slow to stop a 4gate; if that's your army at 7:30 , you're not ready to be hit by 4gate.

  • @TheThunderBringer FORCEFIELDS BLAM BLAM BLAM :D

  • @TheThunderBringer you're an idiot, he scouted the protoss so he could afford to have a small army, if he were to scout an early push he would have reacted accordingly.

  • I'm a newb but I like this map! what is the name of it?

  • @BlameCarson Shattered Temple

  • air will destroy collusus, happens to me to much...thats when u get a parter to go air, and then game over

  • how about for terran or zerg if they dont see it?

  • Does this work well against terran going bio?

  • holy crap, i just noticed who your were playing...

  • Is this strategy a highleague thing ? cus most pps at bronze ++ (im at bronze.. im lazy and I fk up vs terrans) goes for mass stalker, early immortals or chargelots mixed with dts..:(

  • Immortal owns stalkers and colossus

  • @Biodark007 depends on unit count for immortals and colossus, cus colossus can go for a highground snipe as immortals cant when they have to go around the shit

  • Is this build viable against a powerful 4 gate?

    What other builds (other than the 4 gate) can be used against a 4 gate?

  • @KnGproduction this build is very good against a 4gate if you push for the immortal first. you can also do 3gate pressure into expand.

  • One thing I'm wondering: At what point would you expand in this build? It seems the main was oversaturated for one base, but an expansion would solve that. Do you just expand if your first push fails here? This is the main part I'm wondering about this build.

  • DT's like 3 hit colossu's :D

  • wow... You both are pretty pro... Would be pwned fucking hard : p

  • hey man nice video I have a few good ones myself but i am having troubles putting it up on the web any advice on that.

  • What if they quickly attacked with a 4gate?

  • @PyroPsycho8 Again, that's what that Sentry is there for: If they have some kind of an early push, you can use the Sentry to block off your ramp, and continue to Chrono Boost the Colossus. If you can hold back that push and get the Colossus out, it's pretty much GG if you push out, because in going for that quick tech build you have the advantage over your 4 gating opponent. However you still have to have good micro, because if your opponent 4 gates he/she may have more units than what you have.

  • @PyroPsycho8 Yeah I was thinking this too, in 90% of my PvPs I just go straight for 4 gate because I know that's what my opponent will be doing. I guess it comes down to scouting if you see the 4 gate I'd abandon it, especially if he has a proxy pylon near your cliff and gets a spotter in. Makes FF useless and pretty much GG unless you 4 gated yourself

  • 1 was the blue player

  • blink stalkers would pwn colosuss :P

  • it would suck when someone just simply massed immortals.

  • He is pronounced Soke with e like And. Thumbs up so Force can read this.

  • would mass immortal be viable?

  • What you suppose to do if your opponent goes 4 gate? Which is how PvP usually goes....with 1 sentry and a couple Zealots you wont be able to hold it back.

    Plus with the new patch wont Void Rays do 20% additional dmg vs massive?

  • wow amazing no dislikes

  • this is kind of like TvT with tanks

  • uhmmm, immortals are very good against colossus and carriers lol

  • uhmmm, immortals are very good against colossus

  • @FullM3tal7ack3t

    A good player will never let Immortals with their short range get anywhere near a Colossus.

    Thats the idea anyway.

  • @ForceSC2strategy good point 

  • @ForceSC2strategy

    also immoratls lose their shields very fast against kolossus, since they deal 2x damage.

  • @ForceSC2strategy What if the opponent uses the exact same beginning of the build, but builds an immortal instead of the robobay. If he pushes out when his immortal is done, he has almost the same army (assuming the beginning was identical) + the extra immortal. If the positions are close enough and you can not get a colos out before the attack begins its kinda game over.

  • @ForceSC2strategy What about with their +1 range now?

  • @ForceSC2strategy yea not after new patches though! =D

  • @FullM3tal7ack3t best unit against the immortal is the phoenix

  • @FullM3tal7ack3t they are shit if colossus have thurmal

  • @FullM3tal7ack3t lol ?

  • I can't wait until 1.2, void rays with 20% increased damage to massive units =D.

    My pvp will be even better.

  • is this works well against zerg?

  • not having a counter to colossus is just like in broodwar with reavers.

    to counter dragoon reaver u had to get more reavers...

    pretty anoting this rock paper scissors instead of skill based

  • this strat is almost going to be worthless when the next patch comes out when Void Rays will do extra damage vs massive

  • Could the recent patch chance this as void rays now do a good bit extra vs massive?

  • Is this build effective against 4 gate?

  • I once saw a pro replay where someone went a similar build to this but right when the robo got out he made a robo bay and a warp prism and did drop collossus harass, whats an optimal build to do that with?

  • Husky's 300k subscriber vid was good, but your cover of 3rd eye blind was the best. also, i bet husky got the idea from your song

  • tytytytytytytyty

  • hey Force, in the video you tell that there is no effective counter to this strategy, except early pressure that also can be avoided by proper scouting and getting out some sentries to block of the ramp. That sounds to me that this strategy is the most effective solution of winning pvp match ups, and can just be beaten by playing the strategy. Could you comment to this?

    All in all, you do awesome work. Keep casting and keep teaching Force :D

  • isnt this strategy a bit weak vs stargate tech , since u are going zealot heavy in order to get the colosis out? can u really get enough stalker out early game to defend against air?

  • ForceSC2strategy is a guru to Starcraft 2. You guys will do well if you listen to him without questions ask :)

  • Comment removed

  • This is a phenomenal strategy that I have recently started employing. I just pump out 1 stalker for every 2 zealots and the composition is beautiful.

  • how do you outmatch colossus when you're playing as human ?

  • I like these because the comments aren't a bunch of trolls! thank you community for not being douche bags. These Strategies are very well taught! Keep it up Force!

  • hi force i'd just like to thank you for this video i am bronze league but with this strat i am now winning all my pvp matches, my last match i held off an early zealot rush and countered with this build while his economy was hurting!! slowly working my way up the bronze ladder( LOL ) really appreciate the effort you put into these videos to make us better sc2 players. keep up the good work :)

  • LOL 8:35 he even almost kills his own colossus

  • ya I agree VRs are rather bad vs colossi but phoenix seems to becoming more popular in PvP and actually does VERY well against colossi, especially if they go zealot heavy, but even if they don't I think 4 phoenix can take down a colossi before a decent amount of stalkers can take out the phoenix, and if you engage an opponent with phoenix and you focus down the phoenix they are getting free shots off on your ground army and if you don't focus down the phoenix you lose your colossi...

  • they can have air to counter colossus lol

  • @cocopuma1

    Yes, air does attack Colossus, the point is that none of Protoss air is effective or efficient enough to make it worth getting.

    Phoenix does very little damage to Colossus, and is easy to snipe down with Stalkers.

    Void Rays do decent damage to Colossus, but are even EASIER to snipe down with Stalkers.

    Carriers....lol

    Hope that cleared things up!

    Cheers.

  • @ForceSC2strategy What about Immortals to counter? When protoss use colossus, they useally mix in stalkers and sentries to defend against air. We all know Immortals are really effective against armor and Immortals build faster too. So I think a lot of Immortals mixed with gateway units would be a good counter.

    And if your opponent chooses to go for colossus/zealots/sentry, then you can get air units to counter.

  • @mennolung i'd say the immortals lack the range over thermal upgraded colossus whilst they are good vs armoured they have to get throught the zealots and stalkers before they can touch the colossus and immortals arent very good vs zealots so i cant see that being a good counter.... as force says...what counters colossus??? MORE colossus....lol

  • @ForceSC2strategy Wouldn't immortals do well against colossus? assuming they dont have zealot heavy to counter immortals

  • @ForceSC2strategy

    Why are Immortals not good counters to Colossus?

    And I'm glad you admit that Protoss air, at this point of the game's development, is useless. :(

  • @revolverA

    They are, but as has been stated earlier in the comments, good luck getting in range of them!

    Between the Thermal Lance upgrade and a wall of Zealots / Stalkers a good player wont let Immortals anywhere near their Colossus. But yes if they do happen to get within range they do very well indeed.

    Hope that helped!

    Cheers.

  • @ForceSC2strategy

    Yes, that did!

    I wonder...if a zealot bomb/immortal bomb on his back line of colossus with a warp prism would be a good counter to early colossus.

    Provided that your warp prism flanks rather than approaches straight on and get sniped by stalkers. And provided it gets there in time before the colossus massacre your gateway units.

    What do you think? Too much timing involved?

  • @revolverA As soon as your in his base, or behind him, his units will have moved up and killed your zealots that have just warped in. Even if you had 4 gateways, 1 or 2 immortals and 4 zealots cannot handle his entire army. Plus if you want immortals and a warp prism, u'd be way behind in unit count, because you can only afford 1 robotics facility.

  • @ForceSC2strategy I agree on those Carriers. They're expensive and takes too long to build even with chrono boost. You'll probably end 1 or 2 in early game combat.

  • @ForceSC2strategy i still think the phoenix can do some damage to the collosus

  • @ForceSC2strategy how DARE you laugh at carriers! they just want to be loved! :'(

  • @cocopuma1

    no, only terran and zerg are allowed decent air units.

  • what about phenix's it works with mass stalker

  • why isnt Void ray useful against Colossi? 0_o

  • @amitthewolf protoss is a very gas intensive race, everything cost 50 or more gas to build and most units cost 100 or more minerals. the amount of void rays you would need to take out a colossus stalker push would be too high to be able to tech switch affordably. 

  • @amitthewolf because voydrays cost 150 gas and as soon as the colossi are gone you pretty much cant use them anymore as stalkers eal with them so easily

  • lol 69 likes :D

  • Good quality, by the way

  • @vozzek69 As for as I know, best counter would be to scout it and push out before they can get that thor out and ready to go.

  • @jorge12app he goes into this at about 1:20 for a minute or two onward. Gives a bit of good explanation

  • Comment removed

  • would you please do some dark templar/archon strategies?

  • how can one submit replays to you?

    got some freaky stuff... like a tvp where the t wins after being proxied

  • Love to see some DTs strategies.

  • Force (or anyone who'd like to respond): What's the counter to that crazy annoying THOR-rush? The one where the terran pulls a half-dozen scv's to repair the thor?

    Seems like anything I build as Protoss can't work against this type of attack. Hit the scv's and the thor rips your units apart... try to kill the thor and the scv's keep repairing it.

    I was thinking maybe chargelots, but by the time you scout a thor AND build a twilight council AND research charge AND amass zealots... you're SOL

  • carriers do perfectly fine against colossi :-)

  • I also thought that immortals should be pretty good vs. colossi, but while watching this video I remembered that Colossus has 2 attacks - so it will do 20 damage on an Immortal with the shield instead of mere 10. And yes, the Colossus can use its range.

    There was that one video where a player used Phoenixes & (Colossus?) hallucinations, I think I like that approach :) It's just that the Phoenixes are not really that versatile of a unit. But hallucinations are a tad underrated IMO.

  • air is good against colossus :)

  • Stalkers with blink shoud do well against Colossus?

  • as a counter for colossi, how about immortals?

  • @nalhwb

    gl getting into range :)

  • well i win all my PvP battles by having mass blink stalker and collosus i just have to blink on his collosus and kill them

  • @DBlueFive get comment was cut off but the issue with stalkers is simply that they cost a significant amount of gas and there's already a significant amount of resources put into getting colossi and 2 robos so it makes sense to dedicate the gas fiestas the colossi. Anyways this is just meant to be food for thought.

  • @LordFr0sty

    My bad..I was assuming you would have more than 1 or 2 bases by the time you had 2 robos

  • @DBlueFive

    Thanks for the tip but I'm fairly certain that if your late enough game to be pumping out colossi zealots/stalkers are more useful as sponges vs actual counters so the zealots should solve the excess mineral problem. The issue with zealots as a counter is that even with charge they only can attack in one layer while the marines will attack from upfront and behind so zealots are much better before the marines get massed up. The issue with stalkers at this point is that each stalker is

  • @DBlueFive

    Thanks, that's a very new perspective for me on how many units you can get at a time. This will definitely help me out. Is it normal to build up excess minerals if say I'm pumping out colossi like mad off two robos in response to marine mass?

  • @LordFr0sty

    Good question...think about how long it takes a colossus to come out and how much resources you would need. 2 robo col means 600min and 400gas if i'm not mistaken with a long build time. I'm sure you should be able to produce more forces in between that time with some excess minerals. Remember stalkers also do well vs marines and I find chargelots do very well if they're allowed to get into range. Don't take my word for it tho...mb a better player like force could verify this.

  • @ForceSC2strategy there is no counter to collosi except more collosy ehm voidrays phoenix carrier the can all hit collosy and he cant hit back

  • @strikermovies4u

    1 phoenix and vrays are easily shot down b4 they can do any damage unless you massed them from the start which if scouted you wouldn't do this build

    2 carriers come out way too late...u would have been stomped way before you even got 1 if you didnt produce any other air units while teching straight to it

  • how do u counter muta hurass?

  • @bellcross7378

    i found as zerg that blink stalkers do well against mutas

  • @bellcross7378 stalker and if u want few phoenix

  • @bellcross7378 terran easily just make thors even with magic box they are better

  • I just want to say thanks for making these videos available to us. I only started playing this game when it released and just now got back into playing it from 3 months of not. I'm in bronze atm and these videos are really helping me look for how to adapt to certain situations. I won my first match in a long time from learning what was in your videos.

  • very well done, charging zealots may easily take down a colossus though

  • @Dez88Bryant

    Early/Mid game numbers of Collosi and stalks loses to Early/Mid game numbers of charge Zealots and Immortals.

    late game numbers of Collosi and Stalker rapes late game numbers of Zealots and Immortals.

    this is because the zelots cant get passed the stalkers and get raped by multiple splash damage attacks. Immortals cant do enough damage in time and get worked after zelots are dead.

  • Force, idk if you actually read these comments but I'd love to see a video highlighting how many units 1 (and 2 and 3) base(s) can support as far as production buildings go and some general macro tips as well (is there anything besides hot keying?). I'm a new player and i'm only in the bronze league but as far as I can tell virtually every game I play the player with the best macro wins. Your videos are by far the best for sc2 and I do hope you have the time to read this. Happy thanksgiving

  • @LordFr0sty

    I like to use 4 gates per base. Tech structures count as 2 gates so 2gates 1 robo per base as an example. If your not going gas heavy like force did in this strat using zeals then you can afford another gate

  • @LordFr0sty One base can usually support four unit producing buildings as long as you constantly produce. As for two and three bases it depends on hat units but its about 2 extra for each base due to the higher tech units. Zerg is of course completely different.

  • @LordFr0sty One base can usually support four unit producing buildings as long as you constantly produce. As for two and three bases it depends on what units but its about 2 extra buildings for each base due to the higher tech units. Zerg is of course completely different.

  • @LordFr0sty

    Well, terran can support 3 Rax or 2 rax and a factory/SP.

    Toss can support 3 gates and 1 extra production building.

    Times that by every mining base you have. and times the rate you get supply depos/pylons by that aswell.

    ALSO as zerg you can support 1 1/2 hatches off 1 base. Thats why as zerg, for every two mining bases you have, you want to have 1 more hatchery. (all with queens)

    Hope i helped :)

  • @LordFr0sty tbh Force is good, but if you actualyl want to get better watch day[9]'s videos. He doesnt show you builds etc etc. He watches a game and tell's you what the player is doing wrong and what he is doing right. He also has a "Newbie Tuesday" which is you watch. You WILL get better.

  • @ZomgItsPanda

    day9 is overrated. The hour he spends breaking down a game you could have figured out urself or even look up info in half the time. couldn't stand watching his hr long vid for more than 5min...

  • @LordFr0sty Watch day[9] that's more along the lines of what he tries to teach, the basics I mean. Force is really only helpful once you have your basics down. day9s Tuesday noobcast would be helpful to you, especially the first one where he goes into a detailed analysis of basic macro skills.

  • @LordFr0sty you should watch day9`s videos

  • Phoenix 5 or 6 of them with a few immortals will do more than great against collosus.

  • Is there a good way of telling if a mineral line/gas is fully saturated or not? I can never really tell how many workers I have on my mineral lines or how many I need to pull off when I get my second expo up. I think sometimes I send too many or too less to my second expo etc.

    Any help appreciated.

  • @seaniscool456 box over your mineral line and check how many you have in the group there sould be about 24

  • Hmm bout what about blink stalkers which can target fire your collusus? In that situation would this build be less feasible?

  • I can't beat thors with zerg.

  • @ankles29 look up the "Magic Box" with Mutalisk. As a terran player, I curse every time I see Mutas do that.

    It's a tactic/trick designed for Muta vs Thors.

  • @ankles29 Best thing to do is magicbox with mutas [if you don't know what that is, that is flying DIRECTLY over the thor and then making mutas attack] or a good surround with zerglings. I think roaches work too.

  • @ankles29 zerglings and or neutral parasite. zerglings do great against thors just make sure you have enough of them.

  • immortal heavy counters colossus well if they dont have mass zealots

  • hey, isn't it thanksgiving in america? take it easy man :D

    thanks for the vid

  • @zhu8287 it was a few days ago but yeah lol

  • Hey Force, what if your opponent is going mass blink Stalker by that point?

    Keep making zealots and Colossus?

  • @revolverA You should start pumping immortals. =] Force has a video where Huk did a 3gate robo vs mass blink stalkers. Check it out!! ;D

  • @SeeJay710

    Oh yeah...I saw that one.

    Thanks for the reminder.

  • what about phoenixes and void rays? 

  • @ResourcesExhausted phoenix does nothing to colossus and voids rays can be easily killed with few stalkers

  • What do I do against mass Stalkers and Void Rays?

  • @Agronymous

    MMM those mofos?

  • @Agronymous as what race

  • @Soprano205 Protoss. I followed the 3 Gate Robo: Colossus build. It failed pretty hard. I eventually tried making Phoenix's/Stalkers/Zealots/Col­ossusi.

  • day9 said that early colossus in other than pvp is crap because you cant have enough collosus, all the gateway units and the range upgrade at the same time.

  • you won't win with this strategy vs socke :D

  • Thank you for your video!

  • phoenix do absolutely no damage to collosus... they do +damage versus light units, not armored units like colossus, and if you focus too much on phoenix they'll just destroy your ground army.

  • force i dont think u are going to answer but asking anyway: day9 always says early colossus is not a good idea because u have a naked colossus and u dont have enough gateway units to tank and u dont have enough gas for an ok amount of stalkers and u can easily get kited with only zlots. this has actually happened to me a couple times wut are ur thoughts on that

  • @jorge12app that's why u need to have mass sentries if u go collossi and thermal lance is a MUST.

    Watch some of the korean starcraft players on micro of sentries, they are god-like in the hands of a good player

  • @hotuckfai

    you wouldn't be able to get colossi as fast or as many by the point the P player in this video did if you spent too much gas on sentries...mid to late game then yes..sentries are great for having colossi deal dmg

  • @hotuckfai im preatty good at sentry micro but this is a heavy gas build for 1 base so u cant have that many sentries and colossus from 1 base

  • @jorge12app

    I'm not force t I find this strat only works well vs other Protoss. If you try this vs a terran then yeah...expect to get overrun unless he left you alone long enough to mass colossi like crazy without making any vikings. Its also difficult vs zerg cuz roaches can take hits from colossus pretty well while they would outnumber you greatly by that point.

  • @DBlueFive cool

  • @jorge12app i am a diamond player, and i have a big win rate against protoss, to be honest what Oger does is very deadly to a 4gate push with a pylon near ur op base, so if u scout corectly and u can be sure u are ahead in collosi count, then this strat is viable...

  • @jorge12app

    If you have that observer out, look at the build your opponent is going, if he goes more zealot heavy, go more colossus heavy, if he goes more gateway heavy, go more immortal/gateway heavy. If you are both producing off 3 gate 1 robo / 4 gate you will always have an equal number to the cost of your units, its just how you use them and what you make that counts :)