Beyond Belief (eeeteee No Grunt Symphonic Edit) - Epica

[kevness2112]

Well, I like Epica just the way they are. I listened to this version just to see what its like and it was weird for me. But good job though.

[ShadowBender91]

This is kind of a bait for flaming, but I really hate Mark's voice. I like a lot of "metalcore" type bands, with screaming, growling and "grunting" (I hate that word btw) throughout, but I don't like Mark's voice at all. It's weak, squeaky, raspy, and just awful sounding. It almost ruins a lot of parts of Epica's otherwise intense and beautiful songs. Epica isn't the only band to have a bad male vocalist though, Lacuna Coil's male singer is pretty bad as well. PS Thank you for making this!

[Lethkhar2000]

Wow, I never realized how vital the grunts were until I heard this. This is way less fulfilling.

[karimds]

to me, this sucks... Epica without Mark isnt Epica, because Mark Jansen has made Epica and hi is the one who write most of the music and lyrics.... so think Epica without grunt is think in other band.

[TearisShatteredMoon]

@karimds Really? Mark is not a great grunter he comes off squeaky and not well trained. He is a good song writer and decent grunter but not incredible. I think the grunting of the other guys was far better on DYOU.....

[karimds]

not well trained?? a real grunter never have other training than the experience, that he gain when sings,... and mark sings grunts from 1995.... that is experience!.... and let me correct you.... Design your universe grunts were made by mark! jajaj the "other guys" only sing in the concerts... so, if you like those grunts, you like mark's grunts... (sorry for my english) :)

[TearisShatteredMoon]

@karimds Actually not all of the grunts were, I said comes OFF not well trained I didnt say he has no experience. He costs usually he's good but by far not the best I don't think up to Simone's skill level. To try to correct me about when he started has nothing to do with how he sounds.... I never said he isn't skilled in his own right, but I don't think he comes off equal level to simone.

[MetalNewcomers]

I really do prefer the grunts version...

[soyelfeno]

pleeease no compare epica with evanescence

[TearisShatteredMoon]

@soyelfeno I agree how can you compare Gothic alternative rock with Operatic soprano metal? Whether a person likes both or not they are different genre different style and different octave of vocals. Therefore any comparison is invalid cause it's like comparing a car with a tv......

[Nigelene]

I like Epica but would still like it without grunting, okay, it sounds kinda tough but when there's too much of it , it kinda ruins songs I think...

EPICA ROCKS FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:-D

[RicoLen1]

You can't really say that without grunts it's not epica because epica does plenty of songs without grunts, like The Last Crusade, and Solitary Ground. It's perfectly legitimate for people to like those songs because they don't have the grunts.

Granted I'm not sure I'd go to this extent to remove them, but I far prefer the songs without to those with. And I understand where this guy is coming from.

[KnightOfHerHearts]

any chance yu could give me a list of their songs without the brutal screaming stuff? i really love their symphonic stuff like the intro to obsessive devotion thats just...well....EPIC. i really wana get into them but the screaming just doesnt agree with me

[RicoLen1]

Ah sorry, I don't know too many. Like I said above there's The Last Crusade & Solitary Ground, in fact I found that there was a good number of gruntless songs on their Consign to Oblivion album.

Try borrowing someone's CD of that album and pick out the songs you want, then you can buy them from itunes or amazon or whatever.

I'm really in the same place as you though. I want to listen to everything they have, but the death growl just plain pisses me off. lol

[RicoLen1]

I've been spending a little time trying to pick some "gruntless" songs out of their discography, and so far I've found these that are either completely with out or with very little so as to not distract from Simone Simons' singing. Never Enough The Last Crusade Solitary Ground Blank Infinity Quietus Trois Vierges (With Roy Khan of Kamelot) Another Me "In Lack'ech" Dance of Fate Feint Unleashed The Haunting -This is a Kamelot song featuring Simone Simons I know there's still more too.

[KnightOfHerHearts]

Thank you so much. have you heard the classical conspiracy album? their basically all instrumental (i think Simone sings on a few) but from what i can gather it's completely gruntless.

I'm also editing some of their songs like obsessive devotion so their are no grunts YAY! i'll let you know if/when it gets done.

THANKS AGAIN!

[AQWMirokuKazaanaII]

@KnightOfHerHearts Grunts were on Cry for the Moon, Phantom Agony to name a few, also Simone sings on most of them--all the songs that were written by Epica.

[TearisShatteredMoon]

@RicoLen1 Tides of times, and Memory

[TheNicklamer]

in my opinion, the grunts are a perfect complement to the their music

like in chasing the dragon, the part with the grunts is what i like best, so full of emotion

[RogueArkhangel]

How can you take out the grunts? That's part of Epica's personality. It signifies life and death. Learn to enjoy music, not scrutinize it.

[Kleios6]

If you don't like Epica with this kind of voice, just change band, just coz someone likes pop voices more than metal ones, they wont change their style. I dont like Britney Spears... but i just dont listen to her, i dont remake her songs with scream voice or ask her to change . Since when a band changes style coz a fan doesnt like it...? Usually its the fan changing band -.-

[TheUlalume]

I usually like screaming, but Epica's screaming vocalist sucks really badly. Grunts and screams CAN be effective in symphonic gothic metal, but in Epica's music they just take away from the music.

[Zotarium]

I don't know... I love the music... but the grunts ruin my enjoyment of a good song... its just so ... animalistic.... primative....

[hentaiboy1928]

Guys..Guys, it seems u all forgoet what this is about. Grunts, no grunts its the song message what it really matters. which in this song is very interesting, In my opinion i like grunts cause they give a darker and explosive atmosphere to certain songs. besides I like to see the grunts as way to express Human nature

[Algernon483]

without grunts it is NOT Epica :-P

[luirizo1]

Epica is one of the best gothic groups i've ever heard...i really love it and i really love Simone (L)!...grunts are right (Y)

[Bysectrix]

I listen to Epica only because of Simone so i couldn`t care less that the grunts are removed but for the sake of fairness lets have the grunt only version and see how good it is without Simone.

[yamiimax]

Epica is Symphonic Gothic Metal so there must be grunts because than it was just called Symphonic Metal i dont like grunts too but Epica has just a few so i dont mind

[markorius]

A band shouldn't be dependent on it's genre.

A genre isn't a fixed thing. If they want to change, they can.

It is not that there are grunts because it is Symphonic Gothic Metal, but the other way around.

[yamiimax]

yeah maybe its just because the genre Symphonic metal isnt fixed too^^

[Epica124]

There is nothing Gothic about Epica. It's just Symphonic Metal with elements of Prog and Death metal.

[Evnightlerd]

Yeah I Totally Agree... Tho So Many People Think Goth = Synth... But I Have To Say Goth's Tristania... tho they're also Synth metal... Epica has nothing to Goth. n__n

[RSevlp45]

people who don't like grunts should just stick to evanescence or within temptation, epica is certainly not for you... \m/

[Noir1804]

KFSBTYR is right . I miss the grunts ...But sometimes I like to listen to evanescence too ...xD

[bwaveforce]

i like both versons, but i like this one better...much better.

[bwaveforce]

i take that back, the grunts are just fine in this song, theirs only like 10secs of it XD

[Xenthys]

Thank you sooooo much for having taken off the grunts. it's the only part I can admite I hate in symphonic metal.

[KFSBTYR]

fuck you and go listen to evanescence if you dont like the grunts of mark!!!

[starbreez3]

indeed.

[Insd34th]

Indeed. I like all the music of Epica, except for the parts where there is a grunt...I don't know what there is to like about screaming into your microphone...

[Creativinity7]

Months ago I hated the grunts, but now if a song doesn't have grunts it no longer appeals to me.

Trust me, they grow on you and eventually you headbang to every song, even the ones composed entirely of guttural voices.

[icefangs15]

This is really great!

[Yaname7]

but i still like it with the grunts, i dont like death metal that much...in fact i can barely even liscen to it. but unlike epica, they also have a symphony and choros, which balances it out and plus unlike alot of other death metal bands epica adds a really great beat to it and the timing of the growls along with the rest of the music adds even more suspense, one moment orchestra and choros...and then HITS THE METAL and then goes the growls and back to the original metal and singing

[KotoriMendes33]

I really love this song !!! I heard it for the 4th time today. I think it's one of my favourite song from Epica.

[vanhouten08000]

hey guys, I think that Epica wouldn't be the smae without grunt, we can't take them off of all the songs! Epica is heavy and powerful, and people who don't love grunt can still listen to Evanescence -_-'

[yrcimim]

Fear is taking over me, there is nothing I can see...

The Future is as certain

As life will come to an end

When time feels like a burden

We struggle with our certain death

5 words:

THE LYRICS SPEAK THE TRUTH!!!

:)

[Castakma]

I agree. Most of epica's music speaks truth of life. Anyone who thinks different is in denial and blind!

[Yaname7]

i see this as the truth...theres just something beyond that 0.o ...unless your an atheist and you dont believe in that shit lol

[TwilightAronXD]

Why? I think Mark Jansen's growls are the other extreme to Simone Simon's operatic vocals. The complement eachother.

I'm sorry my friend, but you kinda ruined the song.

[00Rotem00]

I agree. I love this beauty-beast contrast.

[nihil2009]

The dichotomy of their vocals is certainly a very important aspect of Epica. I can understand ppl not liking it, but I like it, FWIW. :)

[TearisShatteredMoon]

i love the growls (when done right so they dont sound like a sick motor some bands do) i love hard metal i love headbanging but THE BALLAD is as much a part of rock as headbanging i like ballads and i like to headbang and they do go together sometimes it is nice to have a calm version to hear the emotion sometimes it is great to have a hard version to rock out to depending on mood i love it and the original and ps QUIT COMPARING ALL FEMALE LED GROUPS THEY ARE NOTHING ALIKE!!!!! ok thanks love it

[Lacrimosa131]

simoneee ^^ !! ♥ lovee youuu (L) ajaja bueno esta mina eslo maasqe desiir banda geniaiaal

[harryoth]

cool

[soyelfeno]

no está mal pero prefiero mother of light

[juanawishmaster]

but ypu agree with me that they shouldnt cut Mark´s parts... don´t you?

[Epica124]

I agree they should not cut Marks voice.

[juanawishmaster]

it´s obvious you don´t like Gooth Metal: the female voice needs a contrast. Have you ever heard to The Sins Of Thy Beloved, the first Theatre of Tragedy of Draconian?? the classic "Beauty and the beast" technic?

[Epica124]

Beauty and the beast are not found in just Goth Metal. And Epica is Prog Symphonic metal. The Project Hate has Beauty and the beast vocals and thats pure death metal.

[DENZIS666]

I like this version better. I love Epica, but I hate when Mark does higher pitch growls. His low growls sound great, but it sounds like someone throwing up when he goes high.

[laitchdasi]

FFS why didnt any budy tell me about this band befor ? ? ? ?

after tarja is gone from NightWish this is my new favorit.. i think

[alentoure]

Love, love...love this song beyond belief^^

[TheDeathWatcher]

Please do more edits like this, the grunting/graaah sounds occasionally add a cool counterpoint, but often detract.

Honestly, its that kind of "grunting" and harsh toned male voice 'yelling' that drives me away from the 'harder' metal.

And yes, Epica could learn something from the (fairly infrequent) lines Marco (NW) has, and how he does them.

[Epica124]

Epicas not Nightwish they are not trying to be Nightwish and they take infulnces from some Death metal bands.

[Wyndrax]

"Honestly, its that kind of "grunting" and harsh toned male voice 'yelling' that drives me away from the 'harder' metal. "

So basically, you're a pussy.

[ScorgeFilms]

um...no, he just prefers this over hard metal you ass

[alentoure]

About the grunts i don't find them harsh but hard indeed this is the aim...They give a distressing aspect to the songs witch would be very plain without ( like Evanescence in a way...)

[ridingisasport]

@TheDeathWatcher oh, how thorougly I agree with you.....

[julioshinoda]

epica é como obra de arte !!!

[Lizac666]

not to be rude or anything, but epica has not the slightest thing to do with dark metal. just thought i'd say that. I don't mean anything with it, but i jus't thought i'd might as well tell.

[TheGothicSymphony]

i think epica is one of the best from syntho metal bands.

Nightwish is very good too.

and lacuna coil, but i don't understand that people sayz 'amy lee is better than simone'.

evanescence it is different kind of music and voice!

Simone is mezzo sopran, and amy, i dony know... alt? and ev is rock, and epica is metal

[CptJackSparrowLove]

I totally agree with what you're saying. Though, I don't think Lacuna Coil is symphonic metal, but I love them none the less.

Evanescence is sooo not metal. And I think Amy lee is a mezzo- soprano too, cuz she hit's like 4 high notes out of all her songs. So really she just doesn't show it at all.

And for the record, Simone Simons could school Amy lee any day.

[OrangeHat101]

i disagree, i think amy shows her range alot more than you give her credit for, she just doesn't hold the higher notes in the same fashion as Simone. Her style is simply not the same, and therefor doesn't require her having to hold them out in a more operatic way.

you know?

[yamiimax]

the first reason i dont listen so much to epica is that i cant find any album of them thats bad

second reason is some songs have too much growls in it but the first reason is worser:(

[Ozbeach]

Good on you mate!

Can't stand the grunting in all those songs from Epica to After forever. Where is the musicality?

May as well go back to the cave man age...

At least, Nightwish spares us.

Simone is no Tarja though...

[Epica124]

And that's why you don't know a thing about Metal music.

[Ozbeach]

Good on you mate!

Can't stand the grunting in all those songs from Epica to After forever. Where is the musicality?

May as well go back to the cave man age...

At least, Nightwish spares us.

Simone is no Tarja though...

[Johnyboy1391]

As the author already said, he expected controversy. If you don't wanna listen to the song, then don't! It's not worth the complaining.

[whatahellEMO]

Vc precisava ser mais criativo....

[noramay118]

al quitarle las voces de mark no es epica

sorry pero no me gusto tu edicion

[darthy0da]

I'm pretty sure I've already said this, but just in case I haven't:

I do like Epica as they are, but I would like them more if it was just Simone singing, without Mark's growling. So I think what you're doing here is pretty cool. And you do a really good job of getting rid of them. However, like someone else already said, it sounds kinda empty without the growls. Oh well, listening to it a few more times helps get rid of that feeling.

[erkkizu]

nice "editing" skills xD

epica without grunts = too one-sided, soz, u failed.

[adsluijter1981]

You could have just copied that first part as well you know;-)

[BakaNo1]

I don't like growling TOO much (I'm no fan of death/black metal) but when it's in combination with more melodic song or just a wonderful melody it's acceptable. It's darker and I don't see why everything has to be sweet as sugar and filled with flowers and sunshine. Sometimes you just want to listen to more aggresive music and get negative feelings out. Still, if you want to do this and people want to listen, then it's none of my business. I think it sounds empty, but others seem to like it^.~

[yamiimax]

also it would be cooler to place a clear male voice on the part for grunt^^ not delete because it destroy the song if something missing :(

[tennisham]

I hate when people star saying that no grunts=comercialism. It has nothing to do with it!!! Besides, what's your problem with comercialism? Everthing that you hear in mtv sucks? C'mon. Why are you so closed in your world? You got to have an open mind...

Anyway, Epica rules!!! Their my 3rd favourite band after Within Temptation and Nightwish.

[yamiimax]

i do not like grunts too

but i have no prob with them if it is presented in a melodic way like Epica (my favuorite is Sensorium^^)

I like WT and Nightwish too

[leyna21r]

ePiCa Es UnA DeLaS baNdas MaS buEnAs deL GotHIc...++ †††† -´+``00·##.•°•.☆★.•°•.☆.

[frankdakilla]

Epica is a badass band what do you want them to be? like Evanescence? No grunts= commercialism and thats what you want, for Epica to sound like Evanescence?! You should stick with your rock music,this is pure goth metal!!!!

[frankdakilla]

You gay bitches! Grunts rule!!! Simone+orchestra+grunts= Epica!

[tennisham]

I think grunts are horrible and definitely can ruin one song. In the other hand I love Epica, their songs and Simone's voice. I'm learning to ignore grunts (because I know I will nerver like them) and I can definitely say that Epica is one of my favourite bands. Their music is so speccial that I can't listen to it only because of Mark's growls. Anyway NoGruntEpica I understand your idea and like it but of corse the lyrics aren't complete this way.

[Visse90]

The main reason that i didn't like Epica was that they used death growls! I just couldnt take them. But now I've got used to the growls and I find them quite nice too. It feels like something is misssing now, without Mark.

I would have loved this song a couple of months ago, but i think I've learned to appreciate the growls. They are a bit dark, but the dark only makes the light brigter? Right? Anyway, great idea! I really like it! Keep the work up!

[borislavp2007]

Agreed!

Without grunts its not the same, not bad but definetly not as powerful as it is with grunts.

[Epica124]

With out the grunts you have killed the whole song and took away a great part of the meaning in t he song.

[tarcitooo]

Epica é uma banda estilo "a bela e a fera", os rugidos do Jansen são justificados, mas a voz da Simone sem os rugidos faz a musica ficar bem mais bonita, no mesmo estilo de Xandria e Within Temptation. Tirem os rugidos de Death Metal, NoGrunteEpica, já!

[Mirrorborne]

i don't think epica should get rid of grunts.

EVER.

what you're asking is basically "hey, epica, could you change your musical style on some albums that way you can sell more cds?"

no.

mark wouldn't conform that way.

that's why he quit after forever.

so stfu.

[Datharion]

grunts you mean like comatose sounding hock-a-lugy kinda crap? never could stand it. Now i have a style of metal which i can embrace without looking and thinking what did he swallow wrong?

[FullmetalxFool]

Gotta say I agree with everyone who says somethings missing without the grunts. I understand why people don't like them though, as I used to not like them too. I guess you eiether like them from the beginning, or learn to ignore them.

[kumbayad]

grunts just ruin songs, she really sounds like sharoon from within temptation mixed with that after forever woman

[tennisham]

I love Epica but hate grunts. I know it's complicated but it's possible because Simone's voice and the songs themselves make me "forget" about Mark. Thx NoGruntEpica. It's a fantastic idea.

[TwilightAronXD]

What? Epica is MUCH heavier than NIghtiwsh (that has changed into synth pop rock). Epica need a little black metal influence, that is what makes them non-mainstream.

[TMKool]

it sounds empty without mark.. if you dont like grunts, then dont listen to epica, or just to the songs that dont contain much grunts or something..

ofcourse if you think this is good, then you can listen to it, but i doubt there's a lot of people who are going to agree with you.

its just a part of epica, and it gives their music the soul this song misses in my opinion.

[hotgimmicklove564]

I agree with DarkImagination.

Especially with the song The Obsessive Devotion, Living A Lie...

Mark can't be ignored.

It doesn't sound right without his growling.

I mean...the part where he sings in this song, makes me wanna sing!

It's lonely without his voice!

[daphnedantas]

Fodásticaaa!

[LOVExEPICA]

It's a really good song but it sucks that the grunts are out of it. without the grunts > no epica. the grunts are just a part of it.

go listen to pop music if you don't like this.

[nossiej666]

es fanastica esta cancion

[DarkImaginaion]

I think exactly even though sometimes the part of the grunts it so big that you can't ignore it. Take for exactly their song "Death of a Dream", if you'll erase the grunts you'll be left almost without nothing.