Hitchens: I was water-boarded, it was horrible, end of argument.
He made many excellent points when he had this conversation with Jeremy Paxman on Newsnight in the UK and was actually allowed to speak and voice his opinions.
The real reason governments like torture isn't that it gets people to tell the truth (it doesn't), but rather that it gets them to say what you want to hear.
But how do you know what the tortured guy says it's true? After all it's torture, you'll do/say anything to stop it.
I mean if you are asked "Is your leader planning a terrorist attack?", and you say no time after time again, eventually you'll say yes regarding if the answer is true or not,because you're being tortured.
The barbarous custom of having men beaten who are suspected of having important secrets to reveal must be abolished. It has always been recognized that this way of interrogating men, by putting them to torture, produces nothing worthwhile."
- Napoleon Bonaparte
Napoleon to Berthier 11 Nov 1798, Corres., V, no. 3606 p. 128 quoted in - Napoleon on the Art of War
Torture isn't used to obtain intelligence, it's used to obtain confessions and to confirm prejudice.
I really don't know why hitchens gets asked to debate foreign policy. He is VERY poorly read on the subject and merely pulls opinions out of his ass which are often coincidently filled with bile.
ie: the ticking bomb.
He assumes like the rest that torturing people is an effective way of getting information and the only reason not to do it is a moral one or to protect US/UK servicemen captured.
YET all the evidence proves torture doesn't work hence why MI5/6 haven't practised it in decades.
@srspower I see. In that case I still disagree as his was a moral standpoint (as you pointed out). The effectiveness of torture wasn't discussed at all. Also I'm not sure why you would say he was poorly read on the subject of foreign policy. He is widely viewed as being the exact opposite which is why he is so often invited to discuss such issues.
thats the thing though. He isn't. Hitchens is very well read on literature and philosophy and is a very accomplished writer but he knows nothing about the middle east and applies his hatred of reliegon to every possible problem that resides there.
He knows nothing of the last 60 or so years. The coups, the founding of al qaeda by the CIA, the Iraq/Iran war, the fall of the sha and rise of the islamic revolution.
He simply says:-
They are reliegous nutcases, thats why they hate us.
@srspower Ai, I'm sorry mate, but I have to correct you here: Hitchens knows a shitload about the Middle Eastern history, you wouldn't even begin to be able to know half the stuff of what he's already forgotten. I don't agree with Hitchens politically, I think his thoughts are radical and not very constructive at all, but saying he simply doesn't know anything about the Middle East is just not true.
@srspower When has Christopher Hitchens ever said something like that? By the way, he is not just a writer; he is a journalist and has traveled extensively throughout the Middle East, including the war-torn cities of Basra and Beirut.
in the grand scheme of nothingness that is the atheist universe what does it matter that some organisms nerve endings were tricked by other organisms into thinking that they were drowning? what because it makes you ill? nothing cares about how you feel but you trust me i know. or do i? besides i think any of you really only act like you care... as long as you're not on the board. admit that you would execute christians if you could...
Waterboarding doesn't work because it doesn't put fear in the person's mind. They'd think "oh, water - its going to suck and I'll feel like I'm drowning, but I won't be permanently damaged". Sadly the only form of torture that could work would be old inquisition-type torture instruments. They'd scare the common person into confession before it was even used on them I imagine. Of course: that sort of torture is excessive if it was actually put into use and not just used for the fear effect.
@jakerobbins I've seen it. Hitchens isn't a hardened terrorist who has devoted his life to holy war. He is a writer. The constitution of a writer is much different than a terrorist combatant. Although its definitely unpleasant, the terrorists that get waterboarded still know that they will be ok when its over and most just endure the torture.
American news will never recover from Fox and MSNMBC's success. They've proven that debate, interview, and information itself is of less profit than providing masturbatory self-gratification to their consumers.
The euphomisms are what really disgust me. It's not torture, it's "enhanced interrogation." U.S.agents should admit that what they do isn't moral. That's not really debatable. The real question is whether that torture is justified and necessary. And, the Guantonimo excuse that "If it's not on American soil, it doesn't count," is utterly ridiculous. Moral questions can have grey areas, but certain things are obvious and not really up for debate (though people still debate them).
You can justify anything with Smerconish's logic. A bomb's about to go off. Would you rape a terrorist's daughter in front of him to get information out of him? What if you cut off his hand with a hacksaw? What if you threatened to execute his family? We are supposed to be more more moral than terrorists. When you sink to their level (or below) you aren't defending freedom of speech or the right to a fair trial. You're saying, "Our laws only apply when they're convenient."
@Mxlsptlk how can you even assume it is wrong to hurt someone... unless you actually believe in God or something... if not, who cares if some animals that accidentally evolved feel pain, die or don't get to vote and marry like everyone else... you are the only one who cares, that's who. and what does that mean, to the vastness of the universe? nothing... like it or not religion gives life meaning, more real than the manufactured meaning that atheists claim for their own, spawning...
I remember over a hundred American hostages taken by islamic terrorists and not one was tortured. Not one. I wonder if they would be now.
The ticking bomb torture thing only happens on TV. A torture victim will say anything he thinks the torturer wants to hear period. It's a bad way to get information.
i love how the host asks a question and just as someone is about to answer immediately cuts them off with more bullshit. it's almost like a comedy, except it's real. how does he have that job?
One of the assumptions made by Matthews and the Radio guy is that Al Qaeda's actions couldn't get any worse. False. The original plan on 9/11, according to Khalid Mohammed, was to fly the planes into nuclear power plants, but they decided not to because they didn't want things to spiral out of control. The guy they beheaded could have been worse off. Torture is worse than death. If you throw out human rights, things can spiral into a no-rules, torture and desecration scenario.
That host has a moment of brilliance where he pins that amoral cunt in a corner.
You do not torture because it is wrong. Ticking bomb or not, torture is the language of a dictatorship and the polar opposite of freedom, the right the government is supposedly fighting for.
Btw, the government never fights for freedom. The government is there is pass tax money on to where it is needed, they are not there to police freedom. Freedom is supposed to be protected by the people.
@53dumey Can I ask you, Would you say the same about the Nazi's? Would you say it was acceptable to water board, amongst other methods of torture to use it against the Nazi's during WWII?
@53dumey "Al-Queda do not belong to any army nor represent any country." So if they have a piece of paper that says they're part of a country or something that makes it not ok to torture them? The label they fly under? That's a very relative kind of morality. It must be nice.
I wish the interviewer would just ask a question and allow the subject to answer. Smercnish was digging his own hole quite well without having to be badgered. Mathew's technique seems remarkably similar to Bill O'Reilly's and that is not a compliment.
A govt that doesn't follow it's own laws is a Banana Republic; if you think ILLEGAL torture is reasonable, then you hope to live in a third world distopia. Either rule of law means something or it doesn't - there is NO GREY AREA!! If your answer then becomes to change the law, well... be careful what you wish for.
@frankybwoy -Michael Smerconish is a very sharp, thoughtful guy. If anyone is a dickhead it's Christopher Hitchens who is easily one of the most arrogant, pompous assholes alive!
We should draw the line at not torturing anyone. It violates our laws, which is to stay is violates the constitution. Michael Smerconish is an ass munch extraordinaire. There is no such thing as a ticket bomb theory. People who talk about that have watch way to much 24. Talking about hypothetical is ridiculous!
Who the hell is the show's host? Hint on interviewing: When asking your guests a question, it is customary to let them get at least one word out before bellowing over them with your question again and again. Fucking tool.
There has NEVER been a "ticking bomb" case in the history of intelligence. There may be information we would like to get, but once you open interrogation to torture, you have a very hard time stopping it in all cases.
The US should never have waterboarded anyone, and I'm ashamed that we did. It makes us no better than the irrational and evil terrorists (we become terrorists ourselves).
I'm probably the biggest Hitchens fan, but I have a hard time agreeing with him on this one. Once you look at the bigger picture, I just don't understand how you can put one person over tens/hundreds/thousands of possible victims.
@akrosenschein the thing is is that in america we are supposed to be above that. I try to imagine that being an american gives a higher standard to how we must act i still think its wrong. WE are not these little rat countries that have to torture their prisoners so we shall not act like them.
@asdfbobbyasdf It's just that the moral thing to do, IS to save as many lives as possible. That is the moral thing to do. People tend to forget that. They argue this subject as if many peoples lives do not depend on it.
@akrosenschein I understand that. Granted id see fit to grant them permission if it were on an imediate need to know basis. But for what the americans are fighting now i would never see fit for such unneccessary tactics. I would like other methods to be tried first befrore using this as a last resort.
@asdfbobbyasdf but as Hitchens says in the vid, you can get into more and more seductive alibis, but you've got to draw a line in the sand and say either 'I support torturing prisoners' or 'I'm against torturing prisoners'. For the reasons Hitchens mentions, including basics like how others will treat 'my' troops, I'm in the latter camp.
@caspar01 for me unfortunately as it sounds am very subjective on the issue. its for me a matter of opportunity and situation. If hte times are not dire and my people in no imediate danger, then i do not need such low life tactics, but if it is a matter of thousands of people that i am supposed to be protecting, then i will do whatever necessary to keep my people safe.
@asdfbobbyasdf For me that's the point...the moment you start using those justifications, you can slide your acceptable start point whichever way you want: 'there *could* be thousands of people at risk, we need to use the waterboard (or blowtorch) to find out'.
@caspar01 im talking in a full scale setting not some simple person on the street. Morals are nothing of absolutes. If i were to know that someone had a great amount of intelligence that could divert a disaster to my people then fuck them. I would have to know that this person actually had intelligence and that there would be nothing more than my guilt to weigh on my shoulders.
Why on American TV do the interviewers invariably talk way too much, ask another question before the first was fully answered, talk over the guests and in general just be completely arrogant and ignorant never letting guests have their say? What is the point in having the guests on when they are just drowned out. On British TV the opinion of the interviewer is an unbiased opinion which is regarded as irrelevant anyway. It seems to be the American way for interviewing, especially on Fox.
@babycooch The only time Matthews interrupts people is when they are bullshitting him. He could sit there and keep his mouth shut and let the guy waste his and his viewers' time with bullshit, but he doesn't because the show is called HARDBALL. And this is an opinion show - if it wasn't the host wouldn't be giving an opinion....
Fox News is just full of frauds - don't worry about them. But we have real reporters too - David Gregory, Jim Lehrer, Brian Williams and Charlie Rose to name a few.
@babycooch We just have two types of news in America - network news and cable news. Network is straight up, unbiawed, objective reporting where the host will let guests take all the time they want and usually won't ever give an opinion - that's where most Americans get their information. Cable news is this kinda stuff - an opinionated host who debates issues with guests, and it will often get heated. Some hosts are just jackasses and others, like Matthews, just don't like being bullshitted.
@ModerateGuy738 Yes, I am sorry. I made the last comment off the cuff, I should have remembered you have the guys like you mentioned, Jim Lehrer, Charlie Rose and also Bill Maher and Jon Stewart as well. When I said American TV I really should have said FOX News instead. Sorry I do not usually make fague comments like the previous.
Of course, if the CIA were to devote a small amount of its time to protecting American citizens rather than American interests, this would be a moot issue.
Kind of funny that Hitchens has stated he'd like to extirpate extremists completely, but he draws the line with the water spouting flower and a poke between the eyes before we blow their heads off.
Chris Matthews needs to learn to close his mouth. The 30 seconds of actual discussion between the two people asked to come on the show was interesting. The other 6 and a half minutes of Matthews spouting off like a slobbering dolt.
Smerconish thinks America can torture but others shouldn't.. that's exactly what the Nazi's used to think. His views are reminiscent of National Socialism.
What about American terrorists? If the FBI thinks an American is a terrorist, and has information that can prevent the killing of many people (say, Oklahoma City), would torture be appropriate?
It's nice that Smerconish wants to limit torture to just Al Qaida, but he's either fundamentally unprincipled, or willing to torture anyone if he believes he has enough reason to believe that they have some vital information.
@TheAntinode Yep, un(fortunately?) it was an all around egofest, but I thought the arguments were well articulated. I'm completely with Hitchens (a rarity) on this one, but I wish we could've seen Matthews (somewhat more moderate views) go head to head w/ Hitchens.
Why don't we torture the 5 Israelis that were captured jumping for joy and watching the WTC collapse? Israeli boot-lickers like "Smerconish" will never agree to that.
Either MS or CH are worth more with duct tape across their mouths than this motor-mouth know-it-all blow-hard Chris Matthews. Now I remember why I never watch his program. Can't he shut his pie hole for 5 consecutive seconds! What does he need guests for. He knows every freakin' thing himself.
This show sucks. Somebody starts talking and just begins formulating a point, the host yells him down with the next question. You don't need to invite guests if you're not going to talk to them anyway.
If Al-Qaeda will torture US soldiers regardless, then torture their soldiers if need be. They have it coming, and we owe it to the people that will/would otherwise be killed by these hateful idiots.
If Al-Qaeda does not torture US soldiers, don't torture theirs, lest we instigate the previous and more undesirable situation.
Ticking-bomb situation: Do it if you need to.
Obviously we can see what we should do, given our actual situation.
So basically lower yourself to their level, whatever it may be? That's nothing but cowardice. During the World War II, German prisoners of war held by British encampments were not to have a hand raised against them, and if anyone broke the code of conduct they were punished. Meanwhile Britain was being bombed every night by Nazi forces. They won against the most formidable enemy of the 20th century without lowering themselves to criminal Nazi trash, so why shouldn't we?!
Well if it works and you get information, I don't see how you could value enemy comfort over your own side's lives. Then again if it doesn't work, it does look bad, and there are other ways of coercing people to speak. I'm just saying if you know it's going to work, you owe it to your endangered friends more than the people who would otherwise be trying to kill you. Tough call though. I'm just for whatever works.
It's not about their comfort, it's about not compromising our moral principals out of fear. I think it's extremely important to not let the American identity become even more sinister than it has been in recent years, before we lose everything that made this country great in the first place.
Keeping our image clean is half the battle indeed. We keep blasting the crap out of the afghan boarder with UAVs and every civilian casualty is inspiration for ten more terrorists to join against us.Torture, though, while I'd hardly recommend it unless it was necessary, is easier to cover up than a crater left by a missile, if you know what I mean.
@chinchonchinchon Um, I mean, we could blow it off the map with the push of a button, he couldn't, but that's not the point though. Can't really reason with theocracies, though....otherwise there'd be no theocracies.
If they hate us for our democracy and lawful way of life, don't stoop to their level. Don't let fear change our code of justice, or we already lost against the terrorists. We are America and we do what is right, we take the high road and be the better man. Those that want to torture are the same people that hit their kids back. Are you are a big man for that? No, all you care about is your kid never filling your tiny brain with fearful embarrassment in the store again.
Chris Matthews, YOU are an idiot!! Don't ask the questions IF you can't wait for the answer. Why do you give your boys (LIBS) the chance to answer without interruption?
Why would any conservative walk on to an invite to this moron's show?
"Increasingly unpleasant to be an American prisoner"? With a few MIAs and anyone who was rescued before they could be killed, the people currently at war with the United States universally torture, kill, and mutilate the bodies of any soldier and many civilians they capture. Remember the Fallujah Bridge, Nick Berg, Olin Armstrong, Jack Hensley, Thomas Fox, John Yong, Josh Munns, Jon Cote, Paul Reuben, Ron Schultz, Steven Vincent, etc. What we do to prisoners doesn't matter a damn to the enemy.
Fox and every other media source can say whatever they want. What does it matter? The point is that the enemy only takes prisoners to execute them after torturing them, not for intelligence, but simply to instill fear in others when their mutilated bodies are found. Whether we treat prisoners like guests or kill them, the people captured by militants are going to be butchered and any claim that the fate of American POWs is somehow linked to our treatment of captured insurgents is utter bullshit.
No one is suggesting to treat prisoners like guests. The question is whether real torture is ever justified, and whether it could ever be applied reasonably through a government bureaucracy.
The behavior and policies of the U.S. have ripple effects throughout the world. What we do to prisoners may not matter much to those who are already our sworn enemies, but it will matter to our partners, allies, and anyone who is paying attention. Due process and basic limitations on interrogation techniques are inseparable from being a civilized society.
Our allies are facing the same torture and executions. I defy you to name a single plausible future enemy where torture is anything less than certain. America has never fought a war where our prisoners were not tortured, some until they died, and we never will. We can study our own navels all day to decide whether torture is ever justified, but the claim that how we treat our prisoners has any bearing on how others treat captured Americans flies in the face of history and is an utter falsehood.
To be clear, I'm not advocating the mass execution of our prisoners or even making a comment on torture in general. I'm commenting on the specific quote I posted from the video and am stating that such an idea has no basis in history, has never been substantiated in any conflict, and in fact the opposite seems to be true. Soldiers need to believe in their hearts that if they surrender they will die, because they will, and to suggest any less to them invites tragedy.
Matthews ate up Smerconish. If you're an ignoramus, at least be prepared to blather and smoke your way through the debate; it's rather rare for anyone to choke up like Smerconish did.
Notice how Smerconish skirts the final question: How did the Israeli Supreme Court rule on that case? Israel has never condoned torture by law, and they are under constant threat of terrorist attacks. Perhaps we can learn a thing or two from them.
And how many Japanese children did America kill inadvertently (or was it?) in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Why do you hold Israel to an impossible standard in its self-defense that you apply to no one else?
All countries need to stop pointless land grabs and fear mongering. Israel is a state that should not exist and only does because of creepy cult like Zionism. Israel should not be recognized as a state and the U.S. should stop backing ANY foreign country that maliciously attacks other states. I'm not saying the U.S. is right by any means, you're putting words in my mouth because I'm talking on one subject. I don't have room to mention all the current world atrocities.
Even if I granted your caricature of history, by that logic the United States of America has no right to exist because it stole land from the Native Americans. Further, by that logic, Native Americans should be able to terrorize European-descended Americans with impunity? There are many other ways to disarm your logic, but I find reductio ad absurdum the most effective...
You should probably read some Noam Chomsky if all you think is that i want oppressed peoples to terrorize their oppressors. It's so much more than that. And yes if we're counting human rights records against countries, America has no right to exist.
If peace is what you want, then I think you'll agree that a 2-state solution is necessary and proper; unfortunately the Palestinian leadership has repeatedly rejected such a deal throughout history. Therefore it is precisely that sentiment which you expressed, that Israel has no right to exist, that perpetuates the violence. BTW, I'm not sure if you're an American citizen or not, but I'm glad you admitted such a striking blow to your credibility.
what youre saying here is absolutely false. the palestinians have consistently accepted the 2 state solution. if you objectively analyze israels actions since oslo, youll see they have absolutely no interest in a viable 2 state solution. theyve done everything possible to destroy any semblance of a palestinian state
well as chris penn said in RD, if you beat this prick long enough, hell tell you he started the chicago fucking fire but that doesnt neccessarily make it fuckin so!
smerconish has has abandoned reason. he does not take into consideration the law of identity. "A" cannot be "non-A" in the same time in the same respect. therefore he is insane.
Sorry but i think we have to do something to extract information out of these guys...They re not going to start talking over a cup of tea. You should see what they do in North Korean prison camps to understand what torture really means..
"Those who know waterboarding first hand will tell you it is torture. Try it yourself and see how long you last, then get back to me. "
Where do these stinky ass libs crawl out from under? Try doing it to a man 180 times, HE GOT BACK TO SOMEONE ABOUT IT. These people have ZERO rights, do NOT fight under the "laws" of war held by nations around the world. It ISNT SUPPOSED TO BE COMFORTABLE, fucking loons. If you hate America so much why are you people still here?
It does and you are ignorant for stating that it does not.
Let's say you were in possession of a safe's combination and inside that safe was 10 million bucks. Through the use of torture I could extract that safe's combination from your lips within an hour even if you were told that if you kept the combination secret for that entire hour you could keep the money.
It's called pain compliance it is a proven method.
You seem to know a lot about me, considering you dont even know me. Perhaps you are that weak. But dont assume that others are as well. I hate to bring this up because xians are a good example of a bad example of will and self awareness, but how many people were killed as a result for professing their faith and not renounicing it even under the diress of torture.
Even Simon Peter denied Christ 3 times. Stop romanticizing the stories told by the catholic church. Even if that were true we have far more dubious ways developed over the past few centuries to extract information. Sodium thiopental for one. What this does is it supresses brain function. You see when you lie it requires more brain activity then when you tell the truth. So we dope you up and start asking you questions. Doesn't hurt at all and yet it is somehow considered torture.
Torture is unbearable discomfort. Tickle torture. Sleep depervation torture. Watching Fox New torture. Its a way of making someone so miserable, either physical or emotionally to coerse them into an action they do not want to perform.
Wow so using torture on people makes us like the Nazi's who committed Genocide against the Jews and murdered thousands of Russians. I love the comparison.
Yep that sums it all up draping towels across the face of known terrorists and then pouring water on them makes us just as bad as Hitler.
"MY security isn't worth the price of losing MY values".
But the truth of the matter is Elwyn it isn't just your security at stake.
I completely understand your point of view. You want to take the high road and as an individual it is possible to do so but as a nation it is not always an option.
You're talking about America, right? The nation that holds the law as the highest standard? Because without law and order you have a failed state. Our constitution becomes worthless.
Back to torture. It's illegal but you support it. Therefore, you put your security before your freedoms. What was it Franklin said about that?
Please name the federal law mandating that torture is illegal then get back to me.
I would do the work myself but I know their isnt one. You made the assertion that our laws prohibit such an act now please cite the code.
(Please note that the eighth amendment only pertains to punishments and not methods in which information is extracted from non citizens on foreign soil.)
lol Amurican
DZ252 2 weeks ago
Hitchens' argument is simple:
Hitchens: I was water-boarded, it was horrible, end of argument.
He made many excellent points when he had this conversation with Jeremy Paxman on Newsnight in the UK and was actually allowed to speak and voice his opinions.
MrLunitunz 4 weeks ago
It's scary that people like that guy gets air time. Your moral system is contingent on you being American? Surprising view!
bennourse1 1 month ago in playlist Christopher Hitchens
I think Chris Matthews has ADD. The guy is completely impulsive and readily interrupts while someone is in the middle of a point.
mistax2k 1 month ago
How come the newsreaders microphone is significantly louder than the other contributors.
terrortorn 1 month ago
gosh they should buy more airtime.
sanjosebum85 2 months ago
Sometimes I think they have no schools in USA. The Yanks are so fucking stupid I can scarcely believe it.
tigranvartanovitch 2 months ago
amurrican
SilentEcho8 2 months ago
3 men on one show and the only one who isn't an idiot is Hitchens.
JustAnotherHumanist 3 months ago
The real reason governments like torture isn't that it gets people to tell the truth (it doesn't), but rather that it gets them to say what you want to hear.
ImMichaelTaylor 4 months ago
But how do you know what the tortured guy says it's true? After all it's torture, you'll do/say anything to stop it.
I mean if you are asked "Is your leader planning a terrorist attack?", and you say no time after time again, eventually you'll say yes regarding if the answer is true or not,because you're being tortured.
mihaimoldo 4 months ago
a blowtorch? seriously? go back to 1643. we don't need your barbarism here.
rysw19 4 months ago
The barbarous custom of having men beaten who are suspected of having important secrets to reveal must be abolished. It has always been recognized that this way of interrogating men, by putting them to torture, produces nothing worthwhile."
- Napoleon Bonaparte
Napoleon to Berthier 11 Nov 1798, Corres., V, no. 3606 p. 128 quoted in - Napoleon on the Art of War
Torture isn't used to obtain intelligence, it's used to obtain confessions and to confirm prejudice.
gamesbok 4 months ago 4
interviewer is a big fat fucking loud mouth
cptmuska 5 months ago 3
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repost this if you are a beautiful strong muslim woman
who will never be waterboarded
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GloriousBasterd 5 months ago
@GloriousBasterd how do you know...
cptmuska 5 months ago
Jep, if america does it its right, if any other country does it its war crimes:D
AxeHomeless 5 months ago
Chris Matthews has an extraordinary talent for saying absolutely nothing as loud as possible.
DtheS1 6 months ago
When will Chris Matthews ever SHUT THE FUCK UP and let his guests speak? Fuck's sake man.
amatuerarabist 6 months ago
I really don't know why hitchens gets asked to debate foreign policy. He is VERY poorly read on the subject and merely pulls opinions out of his ass which are often coincidently filled with bile.
ie: the ticking bomb.
He assumes like the rest that torturing people is an effective way of getting information and the only reason not to do it is a moral one or to protect US/UK servicemen captured.
YET all the evidence proves torture doesn't work hence why MI5/6 haven't practised it in decades.
srspower 6 months ago
@srspower Hitchens said he was opposed to torture. Watch the video perhaps.
Pinage 6 months ago
@Pinage
I never said otherwise, i was pointing to his supposition torture works not whether or not he agrees with it.
srspower 6 months ago
@srspower I see. In that case I still disagree as his was a moral standpoint (as you pointed out). The effectiveness of torture wasn't discussed at all. Also I'm not sure why you would say he was poorly read on the subject of foreign policy. He is widely viewed as being the exact opposite which is why he is so often invited to discuss such issues.
Pinage 6 months ago
@Pinage
thats the thing though. He isn't. Hitchens is very well read on literature and philosophy and is a very accomplished writer but he knows nothing about the middle east and applies his hatred of reliegon to every possible problem that resides there.
He knows nothing of the last 60 or so years. The coups, the founding of al qaeda by the CIA, the Iraq/Iran war, the fall of the sha and rise of the islamic revolution.
He simply says:-
They are reliegous nutcases, thats why they hate us.
srspower 6 months ago
@srspower Ai, I'm sorry mate, but I have to correct you here: Hitchens knows a shitload about the Middle Eastern history, you wouldn't even begin to be able to know half the stuff of what he's already forgotten. I don't agree with Hitchens politically, I think his thoughts are radical and not very constructive at all, but saying he simply doesn't know anything about the Middle East is just not true.
KryzMasta 6 months ago
@srspower When has Christopher Hitchens ever said something like that? By the way, he is not just a writer; he is a journalist and has traveled extensively throughout the Middle East, including the war-torn cities of Basra and Beirut.
writersblock26 5 months ago
in the grand scheme of nothingness that is the atheist universe what does it matter that some organisms nerve endings were tricked by other organisms into thinking that they were drowning? what because it makes you ill? nothing cares about how you feel but you trust me i know. or do i? besides i think any of you really only act like you care... as long as you're not on the board. admit that you would execute christians if you could...
cwross1976 6 months ago
Waterboarding doesn't work because it doesn't put fear in the person's mind. They'd think "oh, water - its going to suck and I'll feel like I'm drowning, but I won't be permanently damaged". Sadly the only form of torture that could work would be old inquisition-type torture instruments. They'd scare the common person into confession before it was even used on them I imagine. Of course: that sort of torture is excessive if it was actually put into use and not just used for the fear effect.
Pooternackle5 7 months ago
@Pooternackle5
I advise that you search for and watch the video of Hitchens getting waterboarded.
jakerobbins 7 months ago
@jakerobbins I've seen it. Hitchens isn't a hardened terrorist who has devoted his life to holy war. He is a writer. The constitution of a writer is much different than a terrorist combatant. Although its definitely unpleasant, the terrorists that get waterboarded still know that they will be ok when its over and most just endure the torture.
Pooternackle5 7 months ago
The host likes the sound of his own voice a little too much.
AllyWheels 7 months ago
American news will never recover from Fox and MSNMBC's success. They've proven that debate, interview, and information itself is of less profit than providing masturbatory self-gratification to their consumers.
f3ailure 7 months ago 2
The euphomisms are what really disgust me. It's not torture, it's "enhanced interrogation." U.S.agents should admit that what they do isn't moral. That's not really debatable. The real question is whether that torture is justified and necessary. And, the Guantonimo excuse that "If it's not on American soil, it doesn't count," is utterly ridiculous. Moral questions can have grey areas, but certain things are obvious and not really up for debate (though people still debate them).
Mxlsptlk 7 months ago
You can justify anything with Smerconish's logic. A bomb's about to go off. Would you rape a terrorist's daughter in front of him to get information out of him? What if you cut off his hand with a hacksaw? What if you threatened to execute his family? We are supposed to be more more moral than terrorists. When you sink to their level (or below) you aren't defending freedom of speech or the right to a fair trial. You're saying, "Our laws only apply when they're convenient."
Mxlsptlk 7 months ago
@Mxlsptlk
To put it a little more ironically, would you threaten to bomb his entire city in order to get the information
to stop your city getting bombed.
By Smerconish's logic, yes. Pure fucking idiocy.
SkyyDevourer 7 months ago
@Mxlsptlk how can you even assume it is wrong to hurt someone... unless you actually believe in God or something... if not, who cares if some animals that accidentally evolved feel pain, die or don't get to vote and marry like everyone else... you are the only one who cares, that's who. and what does that mean, to the vastness of the universe? nothing... like it or not religion gives life meaning, more real than the manufactured meaning that atheists claim for their own, spawning...
cwross1976 6 months ago
I remember over a hundred American hostages taken by islamic terrorists and not one was tortured. Not one. I wonder if they would be now.
The ticking bomb torture thing only happens on TV. A torture victim will say anything he thinks the torturer wants to hear period. It's a bad way to get information.
sinistar99 7 months ago
"geneva connection" lol fucking fail!
kickmeout1 8 months ago
you americans are ignorant and this is the stupidest I've heard Christopher Hitchens
IncognitoShhh 8 months ago
i love how the host asks a question and just as someone is about to answer immediately cuts them off with more bullshit. it's almost like a comedy, except it's real. how does he have that job?
FabulousVids 8 months ago
24 is a fantastic show, I just started season 2, but it is not real!!!! It is fictional and that kind of stuff does not happen!!
halvor311 9 months ago
Micheal Smerconish is justifying torture, he is actually JUSTIFYING TORTURE
Blowtorches?
Tully545 9 months ago
Hitchens is awesome!!!
treid100182 9 months ago 2
One of the assumptions made by Matthews and the Radio guy is that Al Qaeda's actions couldn't get any worse. False. The original plan on 9/11, according to Khalid Mohammed, was to fly the planes into nuclear power plants, but they decided not to because they didn't want things to spiral out of control. The guy they beheaded could have been worse off. Torture is worse than death. If you throw out human rights, things can spiral into a no-rules, torture and desecration scenario.
EGarrett01 9 months ago
holocaust-type?? wth?
BsstBlau 10 months ago
That host has a moment of brilliance where he pins that amoral cunt in a corner.
You do not torture because it is wrong. Ticking bomb or not, torture is the language of a dictatorship and the polar opposite of freedom, the right the government is supposedly fighting for.
Btw, the government never fights for freedom. The government is there is pass tax money on to where it is needed, they are not there to police freedom. Freedom is supposed to be protected by the people.
Clembo 10 months ago 11
Relativist morality is no response to radicalism or fundamentalism.
JFranz1981 10 months ago
Terrorists use any device to get Info, why should the U.S. worry about how we Might look in the eyes of the rest of the World.
Waterboard the Scum !!!
Al-Queda does'nt worry about the Geneva Code !!!
53dumey 11 months ago
@53dumey Can I ask you, Would you say the same about the Nazi's? Would you say it was acceptable to water board, amongst other methods of torture to use it against the Nazi's during WWII?
roadkill1001 9 months ago
@roadkill1001
No, it would not be okay if the U.S. waterboarded Nazi's during WW2 simply because the Nazi's were a part of the german army that we were fighting.
Al-Queda do not belong to any army nor represent any country.
53dumey 9 months ago
@53dumey "Al-Queda do not belong to any army nor represent any country." So if they have a piece of paper that says they're part of a country or something that makes it not ok to torture them? The label they fly under? That's a very relative kind of morality. It must be nice.
sinistar99 7 months ago
@sinistar99
I am speaking about the Legality of waterboarding al-Queda.
War is not moral on any point, but it is a fact of life.
If waterboarding saves the life of ONE american. I say Do it !
It would be no different than launching an attack, if we thought we were going to be attacked.
53dumey 7 months ago
Smerconish, draws the line over the truth. Your sick and you need help.
crazyzabo 11 months ago
Not me, if Richard Pearle was beheaded I would celebrate and demand the videotape.
starkweather444 11 months ago
I wish the interviewer would just ask a question and allow the subject to answer. Smercnish was digging his own hole quite well without having to be badgered. Mathew's technique seems remarkably similar to Bill O'Reilly's and that is not a compliment.
AkrayBothorda 1 year ago
0:15 - the Geneve Connection?
Guy is as stupid as he looks.
s0denone 1 year ago 2
@s0denone
lol
LordChimpKing 1 year ago
@s0denone: "If the guy had actulable intellibence"; just a few seconds later too...
On the other hand, maybe he'd just been to the dentist...?
flankspeed 1 year ago
A govt that doesn't follow it's own laws is a Banana Republic; if you think ILLEGAL torture is reasonable, then you hope to live in a third world distopia. Either rule of law means something or it doesn't - there is NO GREY AREA!! If your answer then becomes to change the law, well... be careful what you wish for.
Relbl 1 year ago
Shut the fuck up Chris, you fat fuck.
Darkrunner1975 1 year ago
I get so sick of watching dickhead American chat-show hosts shout over the top of the legend that is Christopher Hitchens.
frankybwoy 1 year ago 75
@frankybwoy I would agree with you most of the time, but don't hate on C Matthews.
IggyIrons 9 months ago
@frankybwoy -Michael Smerconish is a very sharp, thoughtful guy. If anyone is a dickhead it's Christopher Hitchens who is easily one of the most arrogant, pompous assholes alive!
esf428 6 months ago
lmao, matthews - "YOUR MORAL CODE IS DICTATED etcetc... I'm just asking."
detahdomo 1 year ago 2
We should draw the line at not torturing anyone. It violates our laws, which is to stay is violates the constitution. Michael Smerconish is an ass munch extraordinaire. There is no such thing as a ticket bomb theory. People who talk about that have watch way to much 24. Talking about hypothetical is ridiculous!
jrwilson98 1 year ago
Who the hell is the show's host? Hint on interviewing: When asking your guests a question, it is customary to let them get at least one word out before bellowing over them with your question again and again. Fucking tool.
jq747 1 year ago
There has NEVER been a "ticking bomb" case in the history of intelligence. There may be information we would like to get, but once you open interrogation to torture, you have a very hard time stopping it in all cases.
The US should never have waterboarded anyone, and I'm ashamed that we did. It makes us no better than the irrational and evil terrorists (we become terrorists ourselves).
drfoxcourt 1 year ago 2
@drfoxcourt: Ah, YOU are the other person who says that. Nice for me to know I'm not alone :)
albedoshader 1 year ago
its pronounced 'kay-ehh-dah, not 'kada fucking moron
TyeDye75 1 year ago
"i'm just asking...' Chris
"Hahaha"......Christopher
proutVA 1 year ago
@proutVA If i was chris mathews i wouldnt be able to stop bragging about that lol.
ojdidit92 10 months ago
1:43 Epic Christopher Hitchens chuckle
sonic371 1 year ago
At least they got him to say it.
pupil8 1 year ago
i love how he says american "amuuurrrrican"
briantheman890 1 year ago
I love how Smerconish dodges questions in the most transparent ways...
jrockzmyv382 1 year ago
Lol at 1.45!
covenanterdd 1 year ago
lol Geneva connection
randikajamai 1 year ago
I'm probably the biggest Hitchens fan, but I have a hard time agreeing with him on this one. Once you look at the bigger picture, I just don't understand how you can put one person over tens/hundreds/thousands of possible victims.
akrosenschein 1 year ago
@akrosenschein the thing is is that in america we are supposed to be above that. I try to imagine that being an american gives a higher standard to how we must act i still think its wrong. WE are not these little rat countries that have to torture their prisoners so we shall not act like them.
asdfbobbyasdf 1 year ago
@asdfbobbyasdf It's just that the moral thing to do, IS to save as many lives as possible. That is the moral thing to do. People tend to forget that. They argue this subject as if many peoples lives do not depend on it.
akrosenschein 1 year ago
@akrosenschein I understand that. Granted id see fit to grant them permission if it were on an imediate need to know basis. But for what the americans are fighting now i would never see fit for such unneccessary tactics. I would like other methods to be tried first befrore using this as a last resort.
asdfbobbyasdf 1 year ago
@asdfbobbyasdf but as Hitchens says in the vid, you can get into more and more seductive alibis, but you've got to draw a line in the sand and say either 'I support torturing prisoners' or 'I'm against torturing prisoners'. For the reasons Hitchens mentions, including basics like how others will treat 'my' troops, I'm in the latter camp.
caspar01 1 year ago
@caspar01 for me unfortunately as it sounds am very subjective on the issue. its for me a matter of opportunity and situation. If hte times are not dire and my people in no imediate danger, then i do not need such low life tactics, but if it is a matter of thousands of people that i am supposed to be protecting, then i will do whatever necessary to keep my people safe.
asdfbobbyasdf 1 year ago
@asdfbobbyasdf For me that's the point...the moment you start using those justifications, you can slide your acceptable start point whichever way you want: 'there *could* be thousands of people at risk, we need to use the waterboard (or blowtorch) to find out'.
caspar01 1 year ago
@caspar01 i jus do whatever it takes for the people im in charge of
asdfbobbyasdf 1 year ago
@asdfbobbyasdf by that logic, you'd be justified in killing someone who looks at one of your peeps in a manner you perceive to be threatening.
caspar01 1 year ago
@caspar01 im talking in a full scale setting not some simple person on the street. Morals are nothing of absolutes. If i were to know that someone had a great amount of intelligence that could divert a disaster to my people then fuck them. I would have to know that this person actually had intelligence and that there would be nothing more than my guilt to weigh on my shoulders.
asdfbobbyasdf 1 year ago
@asdfbobbyasdf Morality is based on absolutes. Moral relativism is probably evil.
Transformers217 1 year ago
@Transformers217 Only in the fearful minds of the religous
asdfbobbyasdf 1 year ago
@asdfbobbyasdf No, in the minds of rational people, who don't want their society to go into a state of chaos.
Transformers217 1 year ago
Why on American TV do the interviewers invariably talk way too much, ask another question before the first was fully answered, talk over the guests and in general just be completely arrogant and ignorant never letting guests have their say? What is the point in having the guests on when they are just drowned out. On British TV the opinion of the interviewer is an unbiased opinion which is regarded as irrelevant anyway. It seems to be the American way for interviewing, especially on Fox.
babycooch 1 year ago
@babycooch The only time Matthews interrupts people is when they are bullshitting him. He could sit there and keep his mouth shut and let the guy waste his and his viewers' time with bullshit, but he doesn't because the show is called HARDBALL. And this is an opinion show - if it wasn't the host wouldn't be giving an opinion....
Fox News is just full of frauds - don't worry about them. But we have real reporters too - David Gregory, Jim Lehrer, Brian Williams and Charlie Rose to name a few.
ModerateGuy738 1 year ago
@babycooch We just have two types of news in America - network news and cable news. Network is straight up, unbiawed, objective reporting where the host will let guests take all the time they want and usually won't ever give an opinion - that's where most Americans get their information. Cable news is this kinda stuff - an opinionated host who debates issues with guests, and it will often get heated. Some hosts are just jackasses and others, like Matthews, just don't like being bullshitted.
ModerateGuy738 1 year ago
@ModerateGuy738 Yes, I am sorry. I made the last comment off the cuff, I should have remembered you have the guys like you mentioned, Jim Lehrer, Charlie Rose and also Bill Maher and Jon Stewart as well. When I said American TV I really should have said FOX News instead. Sorry I do not usually make fague comments like the previous.
babycooch 1 year ago
MIchael Smegma's intellect is inversely proportional to his own self esteem
therockhopper 1 year ago
Of course, if the CIA were to devote a small amount of its time to protecting American citizens rather than American interests, this would be a moot issue.
JiangZiyaTabooDays 1 year ago
Kind of funny that Hitchens has stated he'd like to extirpate extremists completely, but he draws the line with the water spouting flower and a poke between the eyes before we blow their heads off.
JiangZiyaTabooDays 1 year ago
This m....fer never shuts his gob.....holy shit.
fredblassie123 1 year ago
Waterboarding is only torture when the Japanese do it. Every American knows that!
psb1964 1 year ago
Chris Matthews needs to learn to close his mouth. The 30 seconds of actual discussion between the two people asked to come on the show was interesting. The other 6 and a half minutes of Matthews spouting off like a slobbering dolt.
PoliticsStudent 1 year ago
Smerconish thinks America can torture but others shouldn't.. that's exactly what the Nazi's used to think. His views are reminiscent of National Socialism.
beradification 1 year ago
Comment removed
iLoseTechnology 1 year ago
What if it was a blowtorch?
LOL
charliebubblesoar 1 year ago
What about American terrorists? If the FBI thinks an American is a terrorist, and has information that can prevent the killing of many people (say, Oklahoma City), would torture be appropriate?
It's nice that Smerconish wants to limit torture to just Al Qaida, but he's either fundamentally unprincipled, or willing to torture anyone if he believes he has enough reason to believe that they have some vital information.
If only we could know who was guilty beforehand.
daseiner 1 year ago
the fucking guy should should up and listen to their answers
CheekyVimto08 1 year ago
this is just great the number of times chris m interrupts his guests is just hilarious
TheAntinode 1 year ago
@TheAntinode Yep, un(fortunately?) it was an all around egofest, but I thought the arguments were well articulated. I'm completely with Hitchens (a rarity) on this one, but I wish we could've seen Matthews (somewhat more moderate views) go head to head w/ Hitchens.
synchronium24 1 year ago
Why don't we torture the 5 Israelis that were captured jumping for joy and watching the WTC collapse? Israeli boot-lickers like "Smerconish" will never agree to that.
ScottfromTexas 1 year ago
aaaaaaaAAAAARGHSHUTUP! sorry guys, but chris matthews's voice is so annoying!!
mannyv 1 year ago
Either MS or CH are worth more with duct tape across their mouths than this motor-mouth know-it-all blow-hard Chris Matthews. Now I remember why I never watch his program. Can't he shut his pie hole for 5 consecutive seconds! What does he need guests for. He knows every freakin' thing himself.
gregormann7 1 year ago
Sounds like that fucker would allow the IRS to torture US citizens. Simply call them members of Al Qaeda. So much for America.
libertarianjury 1 year ago
This show sucks. Somebody starts talking and just begins formulating a point, the host yells him down with the next question. You don't need to invite guests if you're not going to talk to them anyway.
Yupiyeahs 1 year ago
Hypocrite - following the same behavior one condemns in others.
tophu1021 1 year ago
*sigh*
two scenarios:
If Al-Qaeda will torture US soldiers regardless, then torture their soldiers if need be. They have it coming, and we owe it to the people that will/would otherwise be killed by these hateful idiots.
If Al-Qaeda does not torture US soldiers, don't torture theirs, lest we instigate the previous and more undesirable situation.
Ticking-bomb situation: Do it if you need to.
Obviously we can see what we should do, given our actual situation.
SevenRiderAirForce 1 year ago
@SevenRiderAirForce
So basically lower yourself to their level, whatever it may be? That's nothing but cowardice. During the World War II, German prisoners of war held by British encampments were not to have a hand raised against them, and if anyone broke the code of conduct they were punished. Meanwhile Britain was being bombed every night by Nazi forces. They won against the most formidable enemy of the 20th century without lowering themselves to criminal Nazi trash, so why shouldn't we?!
Sh0nin 1 year ago
Well if it works and you get information, I don't see how you could value enemy comfort over your own side's lives. Then again if it doesn't work, it does look bad, and there are other ways of coercing people to speak. I'm just saying if you know it's going to work, you owe it to your endangered friends more than the people who would otherwise be trying to kill you. Tough call though. I'm just for whatever works.
SevenRiderAirForce 1 year ago
It's not about their comfort, it's about not compromising our moral principals out of fear. I think it's extremely important to not let the American identity become even more sinister than it has been in recent years, before we lose everything that made this country great in the first place.
Sh0nin 1 year ago
Keeping our image clean is half the battle indeed. We keep blasting the crap out of the afghan boarder with UAVs and every civilian casualty is inspiration for ten more terrorists to join against us.Torture, though, while I'd hardly recommend it unless it was necessary, is easier to cover up than a crater left by a missile, if you know what I mean.
SevenRiderAirForce 1 year ago
@SevenRiderAirForce
Alexander tghe Great could not subdue Afghanistan, do you have any Alexander the Great in your armies?
chinchonchinchon 1 year ago
@chinchonchinchon Um, I mean, we could blow it off the map with the push of a button, he couldn't, but that's not the point though. Can't really reason with theocracies, though....otherwise there'd be no theocracies.
SevenRiderAirForce 1 year ago
If they hate us for our democracy and lawful way of life, don't stoop to their level. Don't let fear change our code of justice, or we already lost against the terrorists. We are America and we do what is right, we take the high road and be the better man. Those that want to torture are the same people that hit their kids back. Are you are a big man for that? No, all you care about is your kid never filling your tiny brain with fearful embarrassment in the store again.
thatsmetoo 1 year ago
Chris Matthews, YOU are an idiot!! Don't ask the questions IF you can't wait for the answer. Why do you give your boys (LIBS) the chance to answer without interruption?
Why would any conservative walk on to an invite to this moron's show?
In general, just shut up, Chrissy!
damacdown 2 years ago
Every country for themselves. We Americans have to protect our own and our allies and not worry about protecting those who want to kill us.
On a side note, Chris Matthews is anti-American. He may as well go join the Al Qaeda.
cliffburton4ever 2 years ago
*sigh* American cunts
tomheppy 2 years ago
"Increasingly unpleasant to be an American prisoner"? With a few MIAs and anyone who was rescued before they could be killed, the people currently at war with the United States universally torture, kill, and mutilate the bodies of any soldier and many civilians they capture. Remember the Fallujah Bridge, Nick Berg, Olin Armstrong, Jack Hensley, Thomas Fox, John Yong, Josh Munns, Jon Cote, Paul Reuben, Ron Schultz, Steven Vincent, etc. What we do to prisoners doesn't matter a damn to the enemy.
mazerrackham001 2 years ago
Remember that most of those people were not in uniform, Foxnews tells us that torturing people is okay if they do not wear uniforms and are
infoexcavator 2 years ago
Fox and every other media source can say whatever they want. What does it matter? The point is that the enemy only takes prisoners to execute them after torturing them, not for intelligence, but simply to instill fear in others when their mutilated bodies are found. Whether we treat prisoners like guests or kill them, the people captured by militants are going to be butchered and any claim that the fate of American POWs is somehow linked to our treatment of captured insurgents is utter bullshit.
mazerrackham001 2 years ago
@mazerrackham001
No one is suggesting to treat prisoners like guests. The question is whether real torture is ever justified, and whether it could ever be applied reasonably through a government bureaucracy.
jeb31415 2 years ago
@mazerrackham001
The behavior and policies of the U.S. have ripple effects throughout the world. What we do to prisoners may not matter much to those who are already our sworn enemies, but it will matter to our partners, allies, and anyone who is paying attention. Due process and basic limitations on interrogation techniques are inseparable from being a civilized society.
jeb31415 2 years ago
Our allies are facing the same torture and executions. I defy you to name a single plausible future enemy where torture is anything less than certain. America has never fought a war where our prisoners were not tortured, some until they died, and we never will. We can study our own navels all day to decide whether torture is ever justified, but the claim that how we treat our prisoners has any bearing on how others treat captured Americans flies in the face of history and is an utter falsehood.
mazerrackham001 2 years ago
To be clear, I'm not advocating the mass execution of our prisoners or even making a comment on torture in general. I'm commenting on the specific quote I posted from the video and am stating that such an idea has no basis in history, has never been substantiated in any conflict, and in fact the opposite seems to be true. Soldiers need to believe in their hearts that if they surrender they will die, because they will, and to suggest any less to them invites tragedy.
mazerrackham001 2 years ago
Matthews ate up Smerconish. If you're an ignoramus, at least be prepared to blather and smoke your way through the debate; it's rather rare for anyone to choke up like Smerconish did.
lepolemicist 2 years ago
Notice how Smerconish skirts the final question: How did the Israeli Supreme Court rule on that case? Israel has never condoned torture by law, and they are under constant threat of terrorist attacks. Perhaps we can learn a thing or two from them.
Hurlman418 2 years ago 3
No they just kill children inadvertently and cling to "holy" land just as bad as the terrorists that want it too.
destroyer841 2 years ago 3
And how many Japanese children did America kill inadvertently (or was it?) in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Why do you hold Israel to an impossible standard in its self-defense that you apply to no one else?
Hurlman418 2 years ago
All countries need to stop pointless land grabs and fear mongering. Israel is a state that should not exist and only does because of creepy cult like Zionism. Israel should not be recognized as a state and the U.S. should stop backing ANY foreign country that maliciously attacks other states. I'm not saying the U.S. is right by any means, you're putting words in my mouth because I'm talking on one subject. I don't have room to mention all the current world atrocities.
destroyer841 2 years ago
Even if I granted your caricature of history, by that logic the United States of America has no right to exist because it stole land from the Native Americans. Further, by that logic, Native Americans should be able to terrorize European-descended Americans with impunity? There are many other ways to disarm your logic, but I find reductio ad absurdum the most effective...
Hurlman418 2 years ago
You should probably read some Noam Chomsky if all you think is that i want oppressed peoples to terrorize their oppressors. It's so much more than that. And yes if we're counting human rights records against countries, America has no right to exist.
destroyer841 2 years ago
If peace is what you want, then I think you'll agree that a 2-state solution is necessary and proper; unfortunately the Palestinian leadership has repeatedly rejected such a deal throughout history. Therefore it is precisely that sentiment which you expressed, that Israel has no right to exist, that perpetuates the violence. BTW, I'm not sure if you're an American citizen or not, but I'm glad you admitted such a striking blow to your credibility.
Hurlman418 2 years ago
@Hurlman418
what youre saying here is absolutely false. the palestinians have consistently accepted the 2 state solution. if you objectively analyze israels actions since oslo, youll see they have absolutely no interest in a viable 2 state solution. theyve done everything possible to destroy any semblance of a palestinian state
AbzaMane 2 years ago
well said.....Israel is a terrorist state according to large parts of the world...
hamza1947 2 years ago
fuck no
ILIKEWALLS 2 years ago
"a holocaust type situation"??
wtf chris??
aspirincotton 2 years ago
Nuclear holocaust.
Plato86 2 years ago
Telling someone what they want to hear because they are being tortured makes sense. Not a great way to gain "intelligence."
tooldruid 2 years ago 3
well as chris penn said in RD, if you beat this prick long enough, hell tell you he started the chicago fucking fire but that doesnt neccessarily make it fuckin so!
IrelandRaven 2 years ago 29
@IrelandRaven
Couldn't have quoted it better myself.
rattlehead66666 1 year ago
Mathew's just kicked Smerconish's ass
husky720 2 years ago 17
Smerconish is a typical conservative.
These conservatives love to see such harsh uses of force unless they are used on themselves.
MeritisDE 2 years ago 2
torture = poor intelligence.
you simply get what you want to hear.
Pulsator 2 years ago 4
smerconish has has abandoned reason. he does not take into consideration the law of identity. "A" cannot be "non-A" in the same time in the same respect. therefore he is insane.
MaterialMonist 2 years ago 4
Torture is wrong, no matter what.
blue123439 2 years ago 4
Sorry but i think we have to do something to extract information out of these guys...They re not going to start talking over a cup of tea. You should see what they do in North Korean prison camps to understand what torture really means..
rodworx 2 years ago
Or we could ask the CIA?
shurednichso 2 years ago 2
"Those who know waterboarding first hand will tell you it is torture. Try it yourself and see how long you last, then get back to me. "
Where do these stinky ass libs crawl out from under? Try doing it to a man 180 times, HE GOT BACK TO SOMEONE ABOUT IT. These people have ZERO rights, do NOT fight under the "laws" of war held by nations around the world. It ISNT SUPPOSED TO BE COMFORTABLE, fucking loons. If you hate America so much why are you people still here?
incidentalist 2 years ago
Does Cris Mathews ever shut up and let his guest talk ??
Ironreign 2 years ago
dude true that, this is so fucking annoying
cghslaxforce 2 years ago
There are 5 lights.
If you get that reference, then you are more intellegent than 95% of faux news viewers.
Torture does not work.
MrKevMan 2 years ago
It does and you are ignorant for stating that it does not.
Let's say you were in possession of a safe's combination and inside that safe was 10 million bucks. Through the use of torture I could extract that safe's combination from your lips within an hour even if you were told that if you kept the combination secret for that entire hour you could keep the money.
It's called pain compliance it is a proven method.
DontTazemebrooo 2 years ago
You seem to know a lot about me, considering you dont even know me. Perhaps you are that weak. But dont assume that others are as well. I hate to bring this up because xians are a good example of a bad example of will and self awareness, but how many people were killed as a result for professing their faith and not renounicing it even under the diress of torture.
MrKevMan 2 years ago
Even Simon Peter denied Christ 3 times. Stop romanticizing the stories told by the catholic church. Even if that were true we have far more dubious ways developed over the past few centuries to extract information. Sodium thiopental for one. What this does is it supresses brain function. You see when you lie it requires more brain activity then when you tell the truth. So we dope you up and start asking you questions. Doesn't hurt at all and yet it is somehow considered torture.
DontTazemebrooo 2 years ago
Torture is unbearable discomfort. Tickle torture. Sleep depervation torture. Watching Fox New torture. Its a way of making someone so miserable, either physical or emotionally to coerse them into an action they do not want to perform.
MrKevMan 2 years ago
How do we differ from the Nazi's if we use any means necessary to win?
ElwynMaximus 2 years ago
Wow so using torture on people makes us like the Nazi's who committed Genocide against the Jews and murdered thousands of Russians. I love the comparison.
Yep that sums it all up draping towels across the face of known terrorists and then pouring water on them makes us just as bad as Hitler.
DontTazemebrooo 2 years ago
On a smaller scale than hitler, yes it does.
ElwynMaximus 2 years ago
Do explain.
DontTazemebrooo 2 years ago
I'd be happy to explain.
Torture is a war crime and a crime against humanity. See the relationship?
ElwynMaximus 2 years ago
War crimes are set forth by the Geneva Convention are they not?
The Geneva Convention does not protect non uniformed combatants and never has.
DontTazemebrooo 2 years ago
Were the jews wartime combatants?
ElwynMaximus 2 years ago
If you suggest its ok to torture "non-enemy combatants" what does this say about the character and values of our nation?
Torture against another human being is a crime regardless of who that person is.
My security isn't worth the price of losing my values.
ElwynMaximus 2 years ago
"MY security isn't worth the price of losing MY values".
But the truth of the matter is Elwyn it isn't just your security at stake.
I completely understand your point of view. You want to take the high road and as an individual it is possible to do so but as a nation it is not always an option.
DontTazemebrooo 2 years ago
You're talking about America, right? The nation that holds the law as the highest standard? Because without law and order you have a failed state. Our constitution becomes worthless.
Back to torture. It's illegal but you support it. Therefore, you put your security before your freedoms. What was it Franklin said about that?
ElwynMaximus 2 years ago
Please name the federal law mandating that torture is illegal then get back to me.
I would do the work myself but I know their isnt one. You made the assertion that our laws prohibit such an act now please cite the code.
(Please note that the eighth amendment only pertains to punishments and not methods in which information is extracted from non citizens on foreign soil.)
DontTazemebrooo 2 years ago
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
US Constitution, 8th Ammendment
ElwynMaximus 2 years ago
Ok I'll play that game.
Under title 18 Part 1 Chap 113C 2