Alex Salmond keynote speech SNP 2011 conference, part1/3 (22Oct11)

[TheLiberalKnight]

The Scots act as if they are oppressed by England. It's funny, because the union was actually started by a Scottish king, and Scotland plays just as big a role in the union as England does.

[erelpc]

@TheLiberalKnight They don't. The SNP and the independence supports do. The substantial majority are still aware it's an equal union.

[TheLiberalKnight]

@erelpc Unfortunately it seems the Scottish people are dumb enough to believe the bullshit that Salmond makes up, just because he presents it in a good way (he's good with the PR). Sad, really. But then again, so much of the west is dumb today.

[Cybopath]

@TheLiberalKnight

The union of Great Britain was started under A Queen born in England after a Dutch Usurper took the throne from her father. Someone needs a history lesson but even if the UK was 'started by a Scot' what difference would that make? Nazi Germany was started by an Austrian doesn't mean all Austrians had to like it. Joseph Stalin was a Georgian doesn't mean all Georgians had to like being part of the USSR.

[TheLiberalKnight]

@Cybopath The Scots are bad with money and will bankrupt themselves if left to it. That's why they were forced into political union with England. But the vision of Great Britain was begun by the united crown of King James, who was a Stuart Scot.

Take your independence, but never expect our money ever again, & I will be delighted to know how you will survive once the oil runs out.

[Cybopath]

@TheLiberalKnight

'The Scots are bad with money' nothing like a broad insulting sterotype to make the case of how Scotland is looked down upon and I thought the sterotype was we where all thrifty. Would that be the same Stuart King who's son was killed by Cromwell who began the true building blocks of the UK and British empire, namley attempt anglicize the world. Would that be the same Stuart line that was eventually given away to the Hanovarians who sit on the throne right now??

[Cybopath]

@TheLiberalKnight

Well the oil managed to pay for all your roads and that great tunnel to France which has really helped illeagal immagration into London. But really it'll last 6 Million people a lot longer than the whole of the swelling UK and if New Zealand a country of 3 Million can survive on Agriculture I'm sure we'll think of something, we're quite inventive you know. Sure we won't get to join you in pointless 10 year wars, pay for your Olympic games or watch the NHS turn into BUPA.

[TheLiberalKnight]

@Cybopath No, it didn't. Oil gives Sterlin a boost, but tax incomes from oil are not that high. Stop listening to Salmond's bullshit, and start learning the facts. If you really believe England needs Scottish oil to survive, you keep telling yourself that, and see where you'll end up compared to England. How dare you suggest that England needs Scotland in any way at all. We are one of the richest economies on the planet.

[Cybopath]

@TheLiberalKnight

Sorry England? I didn't say England I said the UK, oh do you think England and the UK are just the same thing? So do a lot of people hence the reason we need independence, pity Wales and N. Ireland don't wake up, at the end of the day my Anglo-Friend, this doesn't concern you. it's not your country and it won't be your vote so arguing with a die hard British Nationalist who by the look of his profile is stuck in the days Victorian British Empire really is a waist of my time.

[TheLiberalKnight]

@Cybopath Fuck off, if I thought the UK and England are the same thing, I wouldn't even be here.

It is my country, I am British. I am tired of you nationalist Scots. The SNP are nationalist socialists- Nazis, basically, except they aren't anti-semetic. They certainly aren't democratic.

If you don't like the British Empire, you deserve to be a miserable little shithole called Scotland. Just wait until 2040- you think your oil will make you rich, but you'll be begging for our money.

[Cybopath]

@TheLiberalKnight

What the nazis that invaded other countries and ran them from Berlin, just like the British empire. Oh and they both used concentration camps. If that's really how you feel why does it concern you so much? feeling the need to spread your unfounded scare mongering?

[TheLiberalKnight]

@Cybopath Typical uneducated monkey brute. You know nothing about the British Empire. Concentration camps? Used to house the captured Dutch, never once intended to kill anyone. In the very same war, we transformed the Zulu Kingdom, and the 2 boer republics into a democracy, will our monarch as head of state. Democracy by force. But you wouldn't understand, you're an idiotic pig who thinks the British empire was like the Nazi empire.

[Cybopath]

@TheLiberalKnight

Think the Nazis thought the same thing when they forced their democracy on France. Maybe everyone thinks their Empire is good it's just the innocent people who loose there countries and cultures that feel otherwise. Mind you it's rather ironic that now the 3rd world is invading south England. Swings and roundabouts my red coatted friend.

[TheLiberalKnight]

@Cybopath I didn't think you could top your last comment! LOL!

The Union of South Africa was a free democracy, in which anyone could vote if they owned property, including blacks and boers. Only foreign policy was controlled by London.

Compare that to Vichy France, an authoritarian regime which was unelected.

Oh please, so many people hate immigration, the policy cannot be continued for much longer.

[Cybopath]

@TheLiberalKnight

Here's the thing you can't get through your thick skull, Invading and taking other peoples land is essentually wrong and the fact you just refered to Africans as 'blacks' pretty much sums up the butcher's apron loving Al Murray sterotype that you are. Shame your lil' empire crumbled, shame it's gonna get a bit smaller. Need to find some other penis extention in future son.

[TheLiberalKnight]

@Cybopath Lol, it's OUR empire, Scottish boy. It was the British empire, not the English empire. No matter how hard you try to pretend otherwise, Scottish people were equally as responsible as the English for the empire. They say for instance that Burma was a Scottish colony. Keep dreaming, pretending that poor Scotland is oppressed by England... lol!

[Cybopath]

@TheLiberalKnight

It's far easier for you to find yourself British as English and British is the exact same identity not like the duel ones Scots and Welsh must carry. I'm well aware Scots tried an empire and where part of the slave trade, the difference is I'm ashamed of that while you glote like Alf Garnett. Keep dreaming that you're going to hang on to that last prisoners of your dying empire. India, Hong Kong, Jamacia, Australia, Ireland said toodle pip too, must be soo painfull for you.

[TheLiberalKnight]

@Cybopath Again, you refer to the British Empire as an English phenominal. Did you know that Scotland sent 40% more men to the colonies than England did? Did you know that Australia is made up 20% of Scottish colonists? 15% In Canada. Ireland especially, the Scottish aristocrats and landlords did far worse than England and in greater numbers.

There is nothing more hilarious than a Scot accusing an Englishman of imperialism and colonialism.

[Cybopath]

@TheLiberalKnight

Could have sworn I already said I was well aware that Scots where a part of the Empire and Slave trade and that I was ashamned of that fact and not proud like you. Doesn't really change the fact that the Empire was an Anglo-Themed one ran from London. Stage one was to anglicize the nations that surrounded you then the world.

[Cybopath]

@TheLiberalKnight

But at the end of the day if Scotland, A little shit hole as you descrided it, is full of miserable, stupid, mean idiots who are bad with money why are you SOO concerned with keeping it part of the UK? Kind of a strange position to hold.But then the fact you call yourself a Liberal also is bipolar.

[TheLiberalKnight]

@Cybopath I love Scotland, actually. The truth is, the majority of Scots don't want to leave the union. Scotland and England are moving ever closer together. Families bond us, trade bonds us, culture bonds us, and society bonds us. The Scottish nationalists are a filthly, nazi, fascist minority of Scots. That is the truth. You have gained attention because of your leader Salmond, who is very good with PR and lying.

[Cybopath]

@TheLiberalKnight

Ah the majority of Scots don't want Independence, I see, then why waist your time fighting it? I wish Salmond, A majority elected first minister, could live up the the great example of the minority coilition government UK leader Mr. Cameron. Yes he gave the UK a fare referendum on the UK's place in the E.U didn't he? He didn't rush the AV vote at all and we in Scotland a farley represented when we have 1 Tory MP. Yay for this liberal democracy.

[Cybopath]

@TheLiberalKnight

Families and Culture bond us with Ireland, The USA and Canada too. WOn't make a difference if Scotland is an Independent country, I'm not planning on never speaking to my cousins again. Swedes, Norwegians, Finns all manage to be Scandinavian without Stockholm running the show.

[1scot4scotland]

Alex Salmond makes me proud to be Scottish, he deserves respect.

[1scot4scotland]

it's our choice what currency we use ya prick

[ukipwarrior]

If they go for Independence NO to them using Sterling under NO circumstances!!

[calicheSCOT]

@ukipwarrior Have you seen the value of the Sterling? You can't keep on printing money and expect it to keep its value. Scotland would be more than glad to get rid of it.

[ukipwarrior]

@calicheSCOT Have fun with your new German Bankster friends :-)

[calicheSCOT]

@ukipwarrior I know your a UKIP monkey and understand little outside your own insular world, but the Euro isn't the only currency in Europe, Scotland would be far better off basing its own currency on oil and gas exports like the Norweigen Krone. Englands 'sterling' currency would be based on... debt?

[ukipwarrior]

@calicheSCOT What happens when the oil is depleted or we move to Hydrogen cars before then? What industry is to support your socialistic economy?

[calicheSCOT]

@ukipwarrior Current estimates have North Sea oil lasting 50+ years, so theres a lot of assumption in your question. But it is expected that the renewable energy industry will take over. You would know this if you had watched the speech rather than spout xenophobic rubbish.

And you didn't answer my question. The GBP is only being held afloat by North Sea oil and gas reserves, what would England base its economy on? Financial services (lol)?

[levenbrown]

@ukipwarrior - You'll probably know that I like UKIP - very refreshing to see an political party with some good solid 'country before party/career' policies. The other parties lack this in spades.

I'd prefer Scotland to stay in the UK but I don't think she would struggle as a small friendly independent nation. Scotland managed on her own for a few hundred years before 1707. The elephant in the room with the SNP is it's relationship with the EU - they can't be independent AND members of the EU.

[levenbrown]

@calicheSCOT

UKIP are hardly an insular party they are the only ones suggesting we trade with the rest of the world - the other parties seem to think Europe is the only market we should focus on!

That aside UKIP seem to becoming a bit anti Scotland which is not pleasing as they have some fine ideas and I love Farage ripping into the EU.

Scotland would be free to choose her currency and if that is the road she chooses then I agree with you a value or commodity backed currency is preferential.

[richardjohnsonowns]

@calicheSCOT Hello Caliche, i am a UKIP member yet i have great respect for the SNP. I have some sincere questions. Does the SNP want Political Independence from Britain while advocating Political Dependence with Europe? In the early years, does the SNP want to keep the Pound as their currency until it forms its own currency? Btw, as a UKIP member i fully support the devolution of powers to a local level, which includes Scotland having a large degree of home rule.

[calicheSCOT]

@richardjohnsonowns Hello!

I'm not sure what you mean by 'Political Dependence', so I don't think I would be able to answer that question properly unless your more specific. The SNP do support being a member of the EU however, as the vast majority of our trade would be within Europe.

As for early currency, the SNP has repeatedly stated that Scotland would retain the £, followed by a referendum on either the status quo, own currency or joining the Eurozone.

[richardjohnsonowns]

@calicheSCOT Hey :). By political dependence i mean... in Britain 80% of our laws are made by foreign unelected bureaucrats in brussels. We have little control over our own borders and the human rights of criminals etc which is down to that political union. You dont have to be part of the EU to trade with them, a free trade agreement is sufficient. What exactly does the SNP want out of the EU? Thanks for the response about the currency :)

[calicheSCOT]

@richardjohnsonowns 80% seems a little excessive, do you have sources for this? As for the unelected side, well the Euro-council is comprised of elected heads of state, who in turn nominate members for the Commission, and both are accountable to the EU Parliment who are democratically elected. Agreement of all three are required for legislation to pass so its hardly 'unelected bureaucrats' who make the law. The EU is a single market so being a member makes trade far more profitable.

[scjsdnfgo8743hhgbf54]

@calicheSCOT i agree but we would need to be careful not to succumb to dutch disease i.e. our oil industry is so good that out currency becomes more valuable and makes it harder for our smaller exporters to sell goods on the foreign market

[calicheSCOT]

@scjsdnfgo8743hhgbf54 Quite right, and considering that the whisky industry is just about as large as north sea oil and gas, its important Scotland's currency remained competitive. However, with a central bank in Scotland we would be able to keep better control of our currency to maintain growth, particuarly in times of hardship like today. Joining the Euro or keeping the £ would be a bad idea in the long run IMHO.

[bossendenwoodconvict]

@ukipwarrior It's not "independence" it's just separation from the other nations of The U.K.

Separation is not independence - the SNP are europhiles. Scotland would have far more freedom under a U.K.I.P. government than an SNP one, as the U.K. would be free from Europe.

[scjsdnfgo8743hhgbf54]

@bossendenwoodconvict oh shut up you goon, scotland would not have more independence under a UKIP government, by your logic no nation is independent as the majority of them are tied into the economic system of the planet

[scjsdnfgo8743hhgbf54]

@bossendenwoodconvict no, right now it has no voice on international matters because the SNP are not in a majority in westminister. If Scotland was interdependent it would have the same level of authority as the UK in the EU as it would be a member, the point about Cameron and the others is completely irrelevant, just because ive got ancient irish blood doesnt mean im too bothered about northern ireland. youre first argument makes no sense either. Union in the EU is not the same as in the UK

[bossendenwoodconvict]

@scjsdnfgo8743hhgbf54 Re: Scotland would have the same level of authority as the U.K. in the E.U. Yes, virtually none. The fact that Scottish people tend to rise to the top of poltical institutions is relevant as it shows, much to the dismay of Scottish nationalists, that people in the rest of The U.K. are not anti Scottish and attempts to create ill will between the various people's of The U.K. have failed. These leaders Scottish blood is not ancient either.

[scjsdnfgo8743hhgbf54]

@bossendenwoodconvict oh sorry, you want the UK to act alone on a world stage with more countries and you say it would have a more of a backing from other nations, good one. who said the rest of the UK was anti-scottish? haha it is completely irrelevant because it is obviously the best that get the top job, they just happen to be scottish, so why are we sending our talent to westminister when they could be working their magic in scotland? youre the one that made this point not me.

[bossendenwoodconvict]

@scjsdnfgo8743hhgbf54 Well, be happy that your talents are benefiting the whole country, not only your part of it. Re: The U.K. we shouldn't be The 51st State of America (Lab/Con policy), A province of Europe (Lib/Lab/Con policy) or provinceS of Europe (SNP policy)

[scjsdnfgo8743hhgbf54]

@bossendenwoodconvict why? very little people want to be british any more, the english dont even care what we do, its only high up politicians, youre making no sense in your argument what so ever, you basically want britain to be by itself in the world with no economic, poltical or cultural ties, thank fuck youre not our PM

[bossendenwoodconvict]

@scjsdnfgo8743hhgbf54 I'm happy being British and value the achievements of the our nation. Unlike the Europeans, who have either lived under nazism or communism, we have avoided this. We didn't suffer any bloody revolutions either. Why should the nation which defeated Hitler then dismantle itself and tie itself to a declining European economy? I very much want to see cultural ties with the REST of the World outside Europe having lived in Asian for many years.

[scjsdnfgo8743hhgbf54]

@bossendenwoodconvict so youre proud of the british empire that exploited other people, that shot thousands in kenya, took food from indians during a famine and shipped it to britain, we have had bloody revolutions, it was called the war of the roses, the wars of independence, just because its far in the past doesnt mean it didnt happen. Youre quite obviously dwelling on the past and not looking forard, yes we defeated hitler but so did the under ground militant networks in france

[bossendenwoodconvict]

@scjsdnfgo8743hhgbf54 My view of history is that it is one long episode of oppression, injustice and misery, with a few bright spots. It seems there is something wrong with human nature.

I don't deny the wrongs we have done, but Britishness is more progressive than some forms of Scottish and English nationalism, which hark back to even darker times. If India invalidates Britishness, then the crusades invalidate Englishness and burnings of Protestants at St. Andrews invalidate Scottishness.

[scjsdnfgo8743hhgbf54]

@bossendenwoodconvict progressiveness is seen as the sliding to the left side of politics, in that sense scotland is much further ahead of england, theyre holding us back

[bossendenwoodconvict]

@scjsdnfgo8743hhgbf54 The terms right and left are redundant now. If you look at the far left and far right, (socialism or national socialism,) the fruits are the same: Suppression of free speech and the press, attacks on political opponents, plus ultimately death camps. Scots may vote on mass for Labour, a "left" wing party, but how is that progressive? Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, were horrific.

Now, please say something positive about the other home nations, not divisive comparisons.

[scjsdnfgo8743hhgbf54]

@bossendenwoodconvict so who is to say that we can not break that trend? a open liberal socialist society where everyone starts off the same with free education, free health, free speech and civil rights along with everything we hold dear. If we do not stride for this we will never get it. Labour hasn't been socialist since before thatcher any way, Blair and Brown supported privatization of public owned companies, just because they are scottish doesnt mean theyre saintly

[bossendenwoodconvict]

@scjsdnfgo8743hhgbf54 I feel little enthusiasm for either consumer capitalism or socialism. Socialism is far more dangerous as history shows. Capitalism encourages people to consume more than the planet can afford. Therefore it should be controlled.

 I am against privatisation of the Royal Mail (I am a former postie) and against privatisation of the NHS. European directives are behind these privatisations.

I am open to ideas about how to create a better society if you have any suggestions.

[scjsdnfgo8743hhgbf54]

@bossendenwoodconvict if scotland can better resist these directives why shouldnt we go out on our own as we obviously have different ideas of how to run a country from the rest of the uk and are able to stand up to europe. Socialism as a system has never actually existed in its pure form so we cant say it doesnt work, capitalism makes everything dependent on capital, if you dont have capital you cant build a school, hospital or anything the people really need, simply because there is no capital

[bossendenwoodconvict]

@scjsdnfgo8743hhgbf54 The fatal directive is EU Directive 97/67/EC 'Privatization of The Postal Services.' Through this our own postal service lost its monopoly on mail weighing more than 350 grammes.This undermines national mail services in order to create a Europe wide one. Undermining such symbols of national identity makes it easier to absorb nations into the E.U. The best way to resist is to stop supporting the Lib/Lab/Con and the SNP and vote for real Indpendence ie: U.K.I.P.

[SOCIALISTnetwork]

I can only hope that an Independant scotland will lead to an independant Northern england Republic too and I say that as a southerner.The Rightwing should be left to govern their own Utopia.And i know a break up of the UK will hurt every Tory who still likes to think we have "Pink bits" on the World Map. A British Union is is still possible if we were all made to feel like equals .A British Peoples Republic is the answer.

[levenbrown]

nice speech but it always galls me when the SNP talk of 'independence' when they are totally committed to membership of the EU. The SNP should at very least commit 100% to a referendum on EU membership otherwise we are merely swapping rule from westminster for rule from brussels.

The Climate change emphasis is also deeply flawed and the drive for windmills blighting our landscape is wrong and it is also the main driving factor for needless higher energy cost. I would urge them to reconsider.

[bossendenwoodconvict]

@levenbrown If Salmond wanted complete separation from The Union of this country AND the EuropeanUnion, his position would have more integrity. It appears though, that (in common with the LIb/Lab/Con) he wants the constituent parts of our great British nation to be provinces of Europe, instead of nations of The U.K. The maps dividing the British have already been drawn up... now Salmond is attempting to make them a reality.

[levenbrown]

@bossendenwoodconvict -- Well said ... quite agree.

[MinutemanUK]

Why is this party not being made a villain?

The national partys of England are being vilified and banned through laws, that the present and past governments in the English parliament have made up to supress the English?

British? .... Not.

I have pride in my English countrymen, especially the past men that have fought for good and lost their lives ...

I have no problem with the Scottish National Party and applaud the stance for their nationality.

So why can I not applaud my nationality.

Guess

[bossendenwoodconvict]

@dot2dotnews The SNP is best understood as a Unionist party- A European Unionist party! They have no problem uniting with Europe and its countries which have a far less stable history than The U.K. and were at war with us at various times even in recent history. At the same time they don't wish to be part of the rest of The U.K. whose peoples have fought together to defend our common British homeland for centuries.