This is absolutely laughable and assinine. This kind of stuff always does attract the fruit cakes and flakes. Whatever the Cosmic significance of jumping around like you have a corn cob up your ass, I think I will pass on it, remain in my ignorance (happily so) and laugh at you screwballs.
Gurdjieff is rolling over in his grave laughing also.
On a BBC documentary some bloke went in search for an ancient Monastery in Tibet. I recognised the description from one of Gurdjieff's books. In it there were a pile of tree like posts. The BBC bloke passed without a glance. They were described by Gurdjieff as dance indicators for the women who danced for the holy men's gathering. Each post revealed a symbol and so a message was passed through the dance of the women. Semaphor no less; now look at the dances again.
@thufer50 Yes... but what message? maybe related to what gurdjieff said about the difference between thinking and knowing? the former can never experience the latter - coming to know something requires direct experience, with no room for thought or doubt. a dance could be such a direct experience.
Hello friends, I am a Falun Dafa practitioner. Falun Dafa (or Falun Gong) is a cultivation system in the Buddha School based on the principles of the Universe: Truth, Compassion, Forbearance. It helped millions of people to regain health, peace of mind and obtain spiritual fulfillment. Since 1999 this peaceful practice is being brutally persecuted by the CCP in Mainland China. More than 3000 Falun Gong practitioners have died at the hands of CCP in the past 10 years.
I had no idea G. had so much time to put together a video on U tube...........how remarkable! Did anyone watch themselves doing this? merely observing or just observing the ones that were observing? or then again......................there is another view. LOL
the dances are put together by Jeanne Salzmann who was a student of Gurdjieff. The dances here are in all probability the exact same dances taught by Gurdjieff himself. For further information look up the credits in the film "meetings with remarkable men" and search out who Jeanne Salzmann was. Thanks for piecing out this part out of the movie.
the day you came into life and into the sun on this place? the planet? Allah already kissed you? and you kissed him?...anyone understand the meaning of life. It's a precious gift per the soul and never to be corrupted. it is to grow with love and joy and flourish! and never harm another soul on this earth. Remember this my friend ................forever because THAT is the truth of any GOD. as you are a part of GOD.
It's unborn in you. It exist in potential. Not in the body, not of this world. It does not get corrupted, for it is not in this place. The process of possessing a Soul, that can become corrupted. A man is corrupted from the moment of his conception.
To become ordinary, should be the ideal first for every idiot.
A man is possessed by everything but himself. He has no self to possess, as it is in possession to everything else. It is possible to possess oneself, but a man has to be as clever as a thief in the night, or such a man will fail.
Yes. But we are made in God's image, with many possibilities. So the very little can become very much.
As G would say, "To know means to know all. Not to know all means not to know. In order to know all, it is only necessary to know a little. But, in order to know this little, it is first necessary to know pretty much."
If one can not be faithful in what is least, how can they be faithful in what is greater, as "Jesus put it? If one does not know what is little, it will be impossible to know anything more. A man builds from the foundation. It is the little that supports the rest.
Gurdjieff was a Capricorn, thus ruled by Saturn, which governs, among other things, the ways of painful lessons. Being a Capricorn myself, while I do not seek pain, I have found that to truly learn the important lessons in my life, I have had suffer, whether physically, mentally, or emotionally. Personally, I would readily endure the punishment of a true master because I believe a true master would only punish extreme foolishness harshly.
Conscious suffering is an important aspect of our evolution as human beings. Not suffering senselessly but to do it voluntarily. This will apply even if you're not a Capricorn.
Let us all talk about a man who we never met, a man who was an enigma even to the people who lived with him, let us judge something we never expirienced...maybe that will do to drown youreself in stupidity. Or maybe an ego will give us a hand and pull us out by quoting on my comment.
Gurdjieff was Lucifer- he said so in many ways, but no one has ears to hear. He was right about some things, wrong about others, and sometimes he lied.
Surely Lucifer "is" Lucifer? Where and when did he say this? Everyone is right about some things, wrong about others and everyone lies-not sure what your assertion is saying but it is very poorly worded.
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The real work has to do with making money. I have been involved with all the Gurdjieff organizations they are all fakes. If it sounds too good to be true it probably is. Ask yourself one question if they are so great why do they need money. Why do they hide like squirels? They call themselves MEN rather than men. If you are following this rubbish you have reached the a point of hopelessness that goes beyond stupidity. Try to pursue common sense in other words return to common sense. Please.
you are an ignorant. read some books. and after you read some books, read on Oupensky and Gurdjieff.
why do you need money, man? let's see how you'll pay your electricity bills. for trolling around the net you need electric current, you know, don't you?
As you were never part of my Gurdjieff group here in the UK your second sentence is false. Do you need money? I don't follow this rubbish-I explore it! Also how do you define common sense? Is the common sense of someone who lives in the Amazon rain forest the same as someone who lives in London? Will a person who speaks English have the same common sense as a speaker of Hopi?
Friends please watch: Hidden Symmetry 1 - OM CIRCLE - Gurdjieff Sacred Dance Demo. It is in the same link. You will be instantly transported to your Presence Being Awareness, your true SELF, instantly. Just try. I am not kidding. Even other s do the same. Also try Absolute Zero. This is no propaganda. I am not a Gurdjieff follower at all. But I love that sage all the same.
I guess you don't argue with everyone sock. That's darned fine a' ya'. It's almost as if you're not a total pile of shit, but I still know you are. Don't worry about it ego.
Well, no....he didn't ask me in person. I never knew him but I enjoy the books and the teachings and find they fit nicely with my world view. Not sure what your is? But i can guess. Each to their own. If Zenpop wants to spend his time as part of a gurdjieff group, thats his/her business - certainly not yours.
well now Mr Cheapcheap, aren't we an informed soul? Propaganda, hey? Your rant below could be directed at any one of the major/minor religions and cults. The difference with Gurdjieff was he asked you to THINK. Try it sometime, it's liberating!
Cheap cheap Have you? Why worry about others? First liberate yourself. Others will take care of themselves. In fact there are no others in reality. Everyone is connected to the presence being awarenes at all times eternally. I am sure even you know that. In fact you are THAT loving SELF even now. I wish you well.
That's hog wash. Thinking can never lead to liberation. To know one's true Self one should remain without thinking unnecessarily. Thinking is of time, the past and future. Liberation is when the thinker or ego is NOT. Be still and know that you are God. Absolute stillness and silence is needed to know one's true Self or nature. Gurdjieff dances were tuned in such a way that they needed to stop at regular intervals all at once and be still where no thoughts could interrupt the stillness.
Well Pratyah, I'm already liberated so I'm able to think whenever it suits me. You seem like you're a well meaning sort but you sound like a textbook. Get some individuality! I take what I need from Gurdjieff but I'm not nailing my flag to anyone's mast! One thing you guys forget sometimes is Gurdjieff's great sense of humour. That's a good place to start....
I am happy for you that you are free and liberated. Individuality is a myth. There are no individuals. There is only thoughtless reality. Probably you meant to use the word originality. I am not an expert on Gurudjiva's life (I guess that is the correct pronounciation of Gurdjieff).If I want humour I watch Laurel and Hardy and Charlie Chaplin. I wish you well.
ezdzbztz, it was actually to project oneself as knowing. Which is why I said what was the point of it. People don't think, they do not have original thoughts. This is a fact, very provable. Underthetornado's post served little purpose.
It takes energy to have a thought, truly -- that is to be the source of it. Try to initiate a thought and prolong it. Either you can't, or the wine glass tips over.
A little of something is required, to have anything else later. Like alchemy, it is necessary to have a little gold to make more.
Nothing is too much -- you may lose out on what could be possessed. Just the same is becoming full to quickly before you can walk or you may be bound to the ground!
This is propaganda. The real teaching is not a teaching at all. It is a way to attract people into their evil sinister and nasty world. Stay as far away from any of the Gurdjieff groups in existance today they are cults that will lead you astray. They are evil sociopaths. They are after your money and they are just interested in ruining your life. They are putting these movies out there as a way to hide their true and evil intentions. It is a shortcut to hell.
Utter bull5hit 'cheapcheap18', I've been a member of a Gurdjieffian school for over twenty five years. It's automatons such as yourself that the teaching helps one understand and then, hopefully, develop some sort of compassion for. Idiocy knows no boundaries, or ability to do harm. As Ouspensky said: "If you are hit by a machine it is your own fault."
These dances still astound me. Eat your heart out, Martha Graham! Gurdjieff got there long before you. And with more economy of movement, more power and originality.
True, they are a bit dated. But sometimes being dated is a good thing. As the finest ART Deco is dated. Or as the work of Picasso or Stravinsky is dated.
Many are misled into thinking that those who are brash, charming, the extroverted enterprising salesman types or those outspoken traditionalists and conservatives are more likely to spiritually awake. This is not true. It is not about bravado or toughness, but rather gradual personal discovery of the divine strengths (the king) within, the feminine in the masculine and the masculine in the feminine much like Buddha, Jesus or the character Aragorn in the movie Return of the King
You can say more with less if you say it from a better understanding. And that would require a little more experience, it seems. Best you plug this leak with whatever you have in your pocket, for now, until you can find a qualified surgeon.
The key ingredients to esoteric enlightenment are failures but self-analysis, hardship but not torture, curiosity but not blind submission, humour, observing the principle of analogy and patterns, awareness of one's uniqueness but compassionate, constant philosophising how things "are"...among others in contrast to the ways of many teachers of "advanced religions" that emphasised non-reasoning and "coldness"
Enlightened spiritual development cannot be induced by encouraging group mentality and oneness alone and the use of shock keeping straight. Examples of those inclined to tune to the "universal consciousness" like Barrios, Bruce Lee, Mother Teresa, Schweitzer, Gandhi, Einstein even examples found in fiction like Elektra, Neo in the movie matrix, or the latest Batman show how they "awakened" themselves
Teachers of advanced martial arts, ballet, classical music, theoretical physics etc would agree with my observation that give freedom and and support those unique dreamy ones are more likely to "awake" the hero within. Although G is right in many ways but should have observed and adjusted for this as his own experiences and character are testimony to this.
I teach very gifted bright intelligent students & I observe something that G missed. Those students who are (sensing judgers) are more likely to become unquestioning hardworking robots. They may be more attentive and fast learners but less inclined to "awake". In contrast those few unique ones that seem to drift from the mainstream, dreamy (yet on a quest, "man on a mission",) actively seeking truths and sees "patterns" (perceivers) are the ones who are more inclined towards transformation.
The Teachings of Gurdjieff will last for ever. The closer to the source of knowledge, the purer the water. Only fools and the ignorant will drown it it! :)
The Teachings of Gurdjieff will never ever die ! The closer to the source of knowledge, the purer the water. But only fools and the ignorant will will drown in it. :)
While the dances were interesting and really quite lovely, after reviewing it some more, I too found it a little stifling. I have to say, LOVED the ecstatic dancing of that guy @ 1:16...now THAT is more my style. LOL!
The crazed out of control guy represents your out of controlled mind. The 'stifling' rhythms of the others reel in the out of control subconscious(wild man). It feels good to be wild, but it can also kill you/or make you insane. I imagine alot of people enjoy that crazed little man... we are crazed and it feels good to release it
In the long run it feels better to control it, than allowing it to control you..
Haskellbob, it is better make no commments on deep world of meanings if you do not know deeper ones.Useless empty western mentality is really pathetic.Emperialism and all the massacre around etc.Dirty.Did you find yourself?If they try go out of their way.You say you wouldn't stand for a minute but you are still there:)
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Gurdjieff ripped off these dances from the Sufis and then taught them to students in the west so that he could scam them out of their money! Gurdjieff was a complete fraud and those that still meet to discuss his ideas ignore the fact that he used to brag about fleecing the "sheep" to get the money he wanted for his extravagant lifestyle. Unbeleivably there is still soo many gullible people that Gurdjieff schools are still being formed!
I agree that it's sad that people can be such sheep. I have begun to get over my anger at these groups and Gurdjieff himself by getting away from the people in those groups, who tend to be rather pathetic in many ways... They get something they need, which I guess is good, but I myself wouldn't stand for it for a minute!
The solution of the problem of Narcissus is the fulfillment of self-love rather than its renunciation. We meet here a common error of the moralizing ego which tries to create a loving personality by extirpating self-love. This is a profound psychological mistake and only causes a psychic split. Fulfilled self-love is a prerequisite to the genuine love of any object, and to the flow of psychic energy in general.
Gurdjieff was the ultimate narcissist - in the negative sense.: _"The cult leader does not escape dependency. Instead, he (and also, in many cases, she) comes to depend on his followers to worship and adore him, to reflect his narcissistic delusion of perfection to him as does the mirror to the Evil Queen in the tale of Snow White. Cult leaders use manic defenses to rationalize and justify their dependence on the projections and trust funds of their wealthy followers."
Baloney: I've been a member of an authentic Gurdjieff group for 20 years: during that span $15 dollars/mth for dues has been the standard amount asked for (and even that isnt mandatory). And so many of the Gurdjieff commnunity are amazing artists, photographers, sculptors, dancers, Etc. I have been around them and personally witnessed their own spiritual fulfillment. So haskelbob, i don't which group you're looking at, but its far from what is the real deal, in terms of a Gurdjieff group.
Just the opposite: G turned people away and turned them off intentionally...he could have been the ultimate Scientologist/Moonie cultist had he given in to those temptations.
The least thing G was after was to be "worshipped" or "adored". To the extent that anyone fell into that trap; they were/are foolish at best.
If I remember correctly about the sufi dance, the movements are VERY precise, though most people only notice the whirling. And yes there is surrender of personal freedom in all sacred dances. Surrender to GOD. Which is the point of all religions, I think.
these dances are very difficult - I have practiced some when I was younger - they use all your senses moving at different times in an awkward coordination - they only work when you let them happen!
D urante las prácticas que se lleven a cabo, nos damos cuenta que en cada sesión se convierte en un "laboratorio de la vida" misma, vivimos situaciones de IDENTIFICACION como el miedo al rechazo, la necesidad de perfección, el miedo al ridículo, el enojo, la impaciencia y la intolerancia, encontrando las formas para disolverlas.
A través del trabajo correcto de pensamientos, emociones, sensaciones y movimientos del cuerpo, así como el ejercicio de la voluntad conciente, paulatinamente nos desplazamos de la dispersión psíquica a las concentración total y de la tensión física (estrés) a la relajación total, la práctica continua de este trabajo en forma correcta permite la realización de los movimientos y experimentar a estados crecientes de conciencia.
El trabajo de las danzas sagradas se considera como un tipo de meditación en movimiento, su práctica requiere de un gran esfuerzo de atención dividida, después de varias sesiones se puede experimentar el recuerdo de sí y la autoobservación. El movimiento de cabez, brazos y manos, piernas y pies, entre otras partes del cuerpo, siguiendo diferentes direcciones, genera una gran demanda de atención y un alto nivel de conciencia para evitar la equivocación.
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This is retarded. Damn monkeys will believe anything. They are just dying to be told what to do. "I wonder if I can get a bunch of people to dance around like fools..." mission accomplished Gurdjieff.
Foul, read Gurdjieff and then comment. Or else, it is clear everything you say is prejudgement, western brainwashed mindless degenerated that call yourself human. You don't understand a thing, maybe not even what I am saying here!
An amazing, albeit unusual video clip. I have never even heard of Gurdjieff until I began looking up clips of dervishes and other similar religious ceremonies.
Who is it that sees Gurdjieff as "crazy"? Upon what grounds? Where are the prejudgments coming from? Do they come from society? Who writes them on the Internet? Have you been able to go inside the mind of Gurdjieff and investigate his "lunacy"?
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Anyone who falls for the Gurdjieff scam is crazy, but there's no getting through to them. Gurdjieff himself was one step away from the madhouse; he only avoided madness by making others believe he was, instead of crazy, in touch with "special powers". The things I say (albeit EXTREMELY UNUSUAL) are profound and special because they come from a highly gifted individual... So I'm not crazy, right? I'm a kind of god, but I'm not crazy.
nonsense: just b/c you may not be able to understand some of the concepts, don't generalize about those who follow the Gurdjieff "scam".
just as an example: i could call Mormonism a cult, etc, but no, wait! those are supposedly upstanding leaders of communities, ETc! on and on it goes.. . Haskelbob, i'm surprised that you fell for the scam of being human, --
Wait until you meet someone involved in the groups; you may find then the strangeness and the mind-control of a negative kind that affected me; the "something special", when the Gurdjieff system is involved, is dubious at best. In my opinion. At worst it is surrender of personal freedom to a set of extremely suspect beliefs that masquerade as profundity.
what groups are you talking about? its well known that there r many fakey individuals who set up their own groups and claim to be transmitting gurdjieff's teachings. then theres the Foundation, which is run by gurdjieff's actual students, all of the still alive ones very old, that is a very serious spiritual group imho (i am not affiliated with them, though. for reals) if theres any fault with people from the Foundation that i have met, however, is that they can be a lil elitist and snooty.
I can see beauty in this dance, and a sense of sacred.
Really nice to see these opinions. They´re really in touch with something special, what´s very different of the concept of God as whe usually believe in Ocident.
It´s just a personal reaction. Knowing what I know about Gurdjieff and the people who flock to him, these dances seem to me like turning over one's freedom. They think they're in touch with something very special, and since that something is almost totally unrelated to what I think of as God, it's disgusting to me. any kind of spiritual elitism hypnosis or cultish behavior really bugs me. If you can see beauty in it, although I can't myself, more power to you.
ah, just look at the dervish dances here as yoga or tai chi: controlled movements in a religious dance/sequence where complete focus is required. the limited experience i have had with these kinds of things does make me feel these practices are absolutely worthwhile. if these physical prayers bother you, then just get on your knees, hold your palms together, and recite prayers for a long while. same dealie, except the prayer is spoken or mental instead of physical. at least, thats my opinion.
i duno. i mean the chinese have developed all these chi theories, and do all sorts of physical exercises related to chi. i'm guessing this religious/spiritual aspect of tai chi is central, and the exercises designed to kick someone's arse would be seen as secondary. not an expert, though.
Sorry, I suppose I'm being pedantic. There's Chi Kung, which is specifically for the development of Chi. To be fair, I suppose it depends on how you learn TC as to what the emphasis is. Initially it was a martial art and the emphasis in recent years has ben more related to the 'spiritual' and some forms only emphasize that.
This is absolutely laughable and assinine. This kind of stuff always does attract the fruit cakes and flakes. Whatever the Cosmic significance of jumping around like you have a corn cob up your ass, I think I will pass on it, remain in my ignorance (happily so) and laugh at you screwballs.
Gurdjieff is rolling over in his grave laughing also.
97448able 2 months ago
Where was this filmed? Which country?
AndyRiot 3 months ago
"now's the time on Sprockets when we dance!"
puragreen 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Sharon Gans the NY "teacher" is a FRAUD. google Gans & Cult and read all about it
UT92862 7 months ago
Seminario Práctico de Cuarto Camino. Instituto para el Desarrollo Armónico La Teca.
Encuentro con Margarita Gurdjieff y Giovanni M. Quinti
Los días 22,23 y 24 de julio en Gazzada (Varese-Italia)
Para todas aquellas personas interesadas en profundizar y vivir las ideas de Cuarto Camino.
Más información en la web: gurdjieff.es
montseroldanmon 7 months ago
the self is ignorant, an idiot, that must learn to make itself subservient to higher consciousness, then it might...only might, be useful
mysteryproductsltd 9 months ago
Better if you think "Oompa Loompa" during this.
onkojo 1 year ago
On a BBC documentary some bloke went in search for an ancient Monastery in Tibet. I recognised the description from one of Gurdjieff's books. In it there were a pile of tree like posts. The BBC bloke passed without a glance. They were described by Gurdjieff as dance indicators for the women who danced for the holy men's gathering. Each post revealed a symbol and so a message was passed through the dance of the women. Semaphor no less; now look at the dances again.
thufer50 1 year ago
@thufer50 Yes... but what message? maybe related to what gurdjieff said about the difference between thinking and knowing? the former can never experience the latter - coming to know something requires direct experience, with no room for thought or doubt. a dance could be such a direct experience.
zapproowsdower 7 months ago
Sorry for double posting! Perfection das exist! at list from 1:14
ilienicolae 2 years ago
Fuking shit! Briliant!!!
ilienicolae 2 years ago
interesting
jacobvardy 2 years ago
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Thank you for this!
Hello friends, I am a Falun Dafa practitioner. Falun Dafa (or Falun Gong) is a cultivation system in the Buddha School based on the principles of the Universe: Truth, Compassion, Forbearance. It helped millions of people to regain health, peace of mind and obtain spiritual fulfillment. Since 1999 this peaceful practice is being brutally persecuted by the CCP in Mainland China. More than 3000 Falun Gong practitioners have died at the hands of CCP in the past 10 years.
Xiaolian7 2 years ago
Can you please tell me where can I buy the music played here. Or the name of the artist.
Thank you!!
AkashicRecords001 2 years ago
Check out for the artist "Kudsi Erguner". He is one of the masters of the instrument (Ney) played here. It is a key instrument for sufi thinking.
guneyozsan 1 year ago
@guneyozsan thanks for the report, i'll search his works...
matuzalem84 1 year ago
I had no idea G. had so much time to put together a video on U tube...........how remarkable! Did anyone watch themselves doing this? merely observing or just observing the ones that were observing? or then again......................there is another view. LOL
underthetornado 2 years ago
the dances are put together by Jeanne Salzmann who was a student of Gurdjieff. The dances here are in all probability the exact same dances taught by Gurdjieff himself. For further information look up the credits in the film "meetings with remarkable men" and search out who Jeanne Salzmann was. Thanks for piecing out this part out of the movie.
whowantstogetnaked 2 years ago
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
zochis 2 years ago
This is a film by Peter Brook about Gurdjieff...
So the dances we see here might not be the same dances Gurdjieff actually saw, but Brook invented for the film.
rozniy 2 years ago 2
dances in the movie were under control G. pupil, 1 lady, this part should be autentic
solto9 2 years ago
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there is no sufism without Islam...
In islamic method-
"Syariah (islamic law) without haqiqat (sufism/tasawuf) is meaningless. and haqiqat without syariah is false......
thing about it..
nasrazam 2 years ago
Then the sufti's are the true followers
of Islam.....The terrorist islamic terrorist
are just MURDERERS.
fntime 2 years ago 2
you are definitely right....
Islam means submit to the divine will, to be peace with each other... not violence...
but to defend the religion is acceptable in syariah law...
nasrazam 2 years ago
Thes dances look beautiful to my eye, clearly influenced by sufi tradition(s)
BUT
Gurdjieff encouraged physical punishment against his students.
I 'll leave it to the readers of this comment to judge on that.
"There is only one reason
We have followed God into this world:
To encourage laughter, freedom, dance
And love."
-hafez
mullahnasruddinQQ 3 years ago 2
you are an utter fool!
sajuline101 2 years ago
Yes, I am and hopefully one day I'll be foolish enough to kiss my beloved!
Allah HU!
mullahnasruddinQQ 2 years ago
the day you came into life and into the sun on this place? the planet? Allah already kissed you? and you kissed him?...anyone understand the meaning of life. It's a precious gift per the soul and never to be corrupted. it is to grow with love and joy and flourish! and never harm another soul on this earth. Remember this my friend ................forever because THAT is the truth of any GOD. as you are a part of GOD.
underthetornado 2 years ago
Comment removed
ezdzbztz 2 years ago
@underthetornado Who are you?
ezdzbztz 2 years ago
What Soul?
JLeo777 2 years ago
@JLeo777 It's cracked.
ezdzbztz 2 years ago
It's unborn in you. It exist in potential. Not in the body, not of this world. It does not get corrupted, for it is not in this place. The process of possessing a Soul, that can become corrupted. A man is corrupted from the moment of his conception.
To become ordinary, should be the ideal first for every idiot.
JLeo777 2 years ago
@JLeo777 So am I everything except myself?
ezdzbztz 2 years ago
A man is possessed by everything but himself. He has no self to possess, as it is in possession to everything else. It is possible to possess oneself, but a man has to be as clever as a thief in the night, or such a man will fail.
JLeo777 2 years ago
@JLeo777 So that means I contain everything?
ezdzbztz 2 years ago
it means you contain very little, and like a open wound, what you do have is continuously loss.
JLeo777 2 years ago
So I'm very little except myself.
ezdzbztz 2 years ago
Yes. But we are made in God's image, with many possibilities. So the very little can become very much.
As G would say, "To know means to know all. Not to know all means not to know. In order to know all, it is only necessary to know a little. But, in order to know this little, it is first necessary to know pretty much."
JLeo777 2 years ago
So being basically basic is pretty much.
ezdzbztz 2 years ago
If one can not be faithful in what is least, how can they be faithful in what is greater, as "Jesus put it? If one does not know what is little, it will be impossible to know anything more. A man builds from the foundation. It is the little that supports the rest.
JLeo777 2 years ago
Nice like head over feet! I love you! Have to go to sleep, my feet are cold.
ezdzbztz 2 years ago
may it be well with you.
JLeo777 2 years ago
Avoiding pain is what makes a man weak, prevents him to be free into the spaces where there could be pain.
Strong man can bear pain and realize it is not stronger than him, then it can overcome it and make it dissapear.
Contact with small pain and incresing it to one`s own treshold is training not punishment.
cesar981 2 years ago
Who is talking about AVOIDING pain? Please read my comments carefully before answering to them.
There is a big difference between AVOIDING and SEARCHING for something.
If you choose a teacher punishing you- than, in my humble opinion- you are searching for pain.
Good Luck on that path my dear.
mullahnasruddinQQ 2 years ago
Gurdjieff was a Capricorn, thus ruled by Saturn, which governs, among other things, the ways of painful lessons. Being a Capricorn myself, while I do not seek pain, I have found that to truly learn the important lessons in my life, I have had suffer, whether physically, mentally, or emotionally. Personally, I would readily endure the punishment of a true master because I believe a true master would only punish extreme foolishness harshly.
RisusEtOblivio 2 years ago
Enjoy!
mullahnasruddinQQ 2 years ago
Conscious suffering is an important aspect of our evolution as human beings. Not suffering senselessly but to do it voluntarily. This will apply even if you're not a Capricorn.
whowantstogetnaked 2 years ago
Seemes to be like this. thank you
JonasAbrahamLind 2 years ago
I never heard of Gurdjieff encouraging
physical punishment, But some of
his dances and excercises put strain
on the body....learning to control the
body, in the same way of yogi's and
weight lifters.
Gurdjieff also was a lover of wine
and song.
fntime 2 years ago
I've been through everyone of Gurdjieff's books, three times each, per his advice.
Books won't get you there.
Lao Tsu said that the Way that can be named is not the Way. I think he hit closer to the mark than anyone.
patsaretherealchumps 3 years ago
Let us all talk about a man who we never met, a man who was an enigma even to the people who lived with him, let us judge something we never expirienced...maybe that will do to drown youreself in stupidity. Or maybe an ego will give us a hand and pull us out by quoting on my comment.
Oramireally 3 years ago 2
merde
ezdzbztz 2 years ago
Gurdjieff was Lucifer- he said so in many ways, but no one has ears to hear. He was right about some things, wrong about others, and sometimes he lied.
RosicrucianAlchemy 3 years ago
Surely Lucifer "is" Lucifer? Where and when did he say this? Everyone is right about some things, wrong about others and everyone lies-not sure what your assertion is saying but it is very poorly worded.
Fountainbleau 3 years ago 2
That is an Ignorant statement.
OpenMind00 3 years ago
Good! The best part of the film 'Meetings with remarkable men'.
17poundr 3 years ago
Incredible precision. Interesting to compare it to other sacred dances, such as the Lama dances of Tibetan Buddhism.
argenteum 3 years ago 2
bonito y curativo
meusac 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The real work has to do with making money. I have been involved with all the Gurdjieff organizations they are all fakes. If it sounds too good to be true it probably is. Ask yourself one question if they are so great why do they need money. Why do they hide like squirels? They call themselves MEN rather than men. If you are following this rubbish you have reached the a point of hopelessness that goes beyond stupidity. Try to pursue common sense in other words return to common sense. Please.
contain591 3 years ago
you are an ignorant. read some books. and after you read some books, read on Oupensky and Gurdjieff.
why do you need money, man? let's see how you'll pay your electricity bills. for trolling around the net you need electric current, you know, don't you?
sesdeux 3 years ago 5
As you were never part of my Gurdjieff group here in the UK your second sentence is false. Do you need money? I don't follow this rubbish-I explore it! Also how do you define common sense? Is the common sense of someone who lives in the Amazon rain forest the same as someone who lives in London? Will a person who speaks English have the same common sense as a speaker of Hopi?
Fountainbleau 3 years ago
thanks for this video - it's really amazing
ub333bu 3 years ago
seek out the Master of Gurdjieff then u will be on the TRUTH
oweh007 3 years ago 2
Yes Bob,lets meet in the totality of loving silence. Love and best wishes.
pratyah 3 years ago 2
Friends please watch: Hidden Symmetry 1 - OM CIRCLE - Gurdjieff Sacred Dance Demo. It is in the same link. You will be instantly transported to your Presence Being Awareness, your true SELF, instantly. Just try. I am not kidding. Even other s do the same. Also try Absolute Zero. This is no propaganda. I am not a Gurdjieff follower at all. But I love that sage all the same.
pratyah 3 years ago
I guess you don't argue with everyone sock. That's darned fine a' ya'. It's almost as if you're not a total pile of shit, but I still know you are. Don't worry about it ego.
source69 2 years ago
Why is it using Persian music? Does that mean these guys are influenced by Sufis?
Bisotun 3 years ago
Yes. Gurdjieff was influenced by Sufiism.
patsaretherealchumps 3 years ago
Well, no....he didn't ask me in person. I never knew him but I enjoy the books and the teachings and find they fit nicely with my world view. Not sure what your is? But i can guess. Each to their own. If Zenpop wants to spend his time as part of a gurdjieff group, thats his/her business - certainly not yours.
Bobsherunkle 3 years ago
well now Mr Cheapcheap, aren't we an informed soul? Propaganda, hey? Your rant below could be directed at any one of the major/minor religions and cults. The difference with Gurdjieff was he asked you to THINK. Try it sometime, it's liberating!
Bobsherunkle 3 years ago
I'm sure he asked you to think in person. Have you liberated yourself yet? have you had an epiphany yet?
cheapcheap18 3 years ago
Cheap cheap Have you? Why worry about others? First liberate yourself. Others will take care of themselves. In fact there are no others in reality. Everyone is connected to the presence being awarenes at all times eternally. I am sure even you know that. In fact you are THAT loving SELF even now. I wish you well.
pratyah 3 years ago
That's hog wash. Thinking can never lead to liberation. To know one's true Self one should remain without thinking unnecessarily. Thinking is of time, the past and future. Liberation is when the thinker or ego is NOT. Be still and know that you are God. Absolute stillness and silence is needed to know one's true Self or nature. Gurdjieff dances were tuned in such a way that they needed to stop at regular intervals all at once and be still where no thoughts could interrupt the stillness.
pratyah 3 years ago
Well Pratyah, I'm already liberated so I'm able to think whenever it suits me. You seem like you're a well meaning sort but you sound like a textbook. Get some individuality! I take what I need from Gurdjieff but I'm not nailing my flag to anyone's mast! One thing you guys forget sometimes is Gurdjieff's great sense of humour. That's a good place to start....
Bobsherunkle 3 years ago 2
I am happy for you that you are free and liberated. Individuality is a myth. There are no individuals. There is only thoughtless reality. Probably you meant to use the word originality. I am not an expert on Gurudjiva's life (I guess that is the correct pronounciation of Gurdjieff).If I want humour I watch Laurel and Hardy and Charlie Chaplin. I wish you well.
pratyah 3 years ago
No, I meant "individuality". Anyway, let's agree to differ and leave it there. I wish you well too, my friend.
Bobsherunkle 3 years ago
pratyah, you are speaking of different things. Thinking was important in The Work, especially considering that people don't think! Think on that.
JLeo777 2 years ago
"The Work"..................YOU think on that.
underthetornado 2 years ago
What is the purpose of this response.
JLeo777 2 years ago
@JLeo777 To meet yourself.
ezdzbztz 2 years ago
ezdzbztz, it was actually to project oneself as knowing. Which is why I said what was the point of it. People don't think, they do not have original thoughts. This is a fact, very provable. Underthetornado's post served little purpose.
JLeo777 2 years ago
@JLeo777 Where do they come from? Why do I walk straight?
ezdzbztz 2 years ago
It takes energy to have a thought, truly -- that is to be the source of it. Try to initiate a thought and prolong it. Either you can't, or the wine glass tips over.
JLeo777 2 years ago
@JLeo777 I am out of wine.
ezdzbztz 2 years ago
every super effort increases capacity.
JLeo777 2 years ago
@JLeo777 Nothing is too much.
ezdzbztz 2 years ago
A little of something is required, to have anything else later. Like alchemy, it is necessary to have a little gold to make more.
Nothing is too much -- you may lose out on what could be possessed. Just the same is becoming full to quickly before you can walk or you may be bound to the ground!
JLeo777 2 years ago
My spleen is going to sleep now.
ezdzbztz 2 years ago
sleep a real sleep. Night.
JLeo777 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Just do it!
ezdzbztz 2 years ago
This is propaganda. The real teaching is not a teaching at all. It is a way to attract people into their evil sinister and nasty world. Stay as far away from any of the Gurdjieff groups in existance today they are cults that will lead you astray. They are evil sociopaths. They are after your money and they are just interested in ruining your life. They are putting these movies out there as a way to hide their true and evil intentions. It is a shortcut to hell.
cheapcheap18 3 years ago
Utter bull5hit 'cheapcheap18', I've been a member of a Gurdjieffian school for over twenty five years. It's automatons such as yourself that the teaching helps one understand and then, hopefully, develop some sort of compassion for. Idiocy knows no boundaries, or ability to do harm. As Ouspensky said: "If you are hit by a machine it is your own fault."
zenpop 3 years ago
You waisted 25 years of your life as a member of a gurdjieff school? I agree with you Idiocy knows no boundaries.
cheapcheap18 3 years ago
I like specially the second dance, who is also very clear. Exeptional the man who shakes himself around the Observer.
MrPinkok 3 years ago 5
Amazing and unique. I am just downloading and grabbing all information about Gurdgjieff's teachings.
Many thanks for uploading this.
seyoumeye 3 years ago
you should get into a school and start practicing, then ;)
DrakCorpInc 3 years ago
These dances still astound me. Eat your heart out, Martha Graham! Gurdjieff got there long before you. And with more economy of movement, more power and originality.
True, they are a bit dated. But sometimes being dated is a good thing. As the finest ART Deco is dated. Or as the work of Picasso or Stravinsky is dated.
BillSalem 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The Way = self-sadism
dinkwit 3 years ago
olehaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!
iteaca 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
los extraterrestres nos invaden
E.T comming soon....
carlo4002 3 years ago
Well, E.T., already in your country, more like, H.C., who you should be worrying about. (H.C. = Hugo Chavez)
Bueno los extraterrestres ya te invadieron con el marciano mas ridiculo de las americas H.C. (H.C. = Hugo Chavez)
fabrizzzio48 3 years ago
i love drill team!
SleepyGina 4 years ago
This movie is worth seeing in it's entirety. These dances are shown in the end when seeker Gurdjieff finds the super monastery in Kafiristan.
Best parts are the beginning and this intense end.
Meckipsychman 4 years ago 3
Thank you for 12 and 21 it was great! :)
armix8 4 years ago
Many are misled into thinking that those who are brash, charming, the extroverted enterprising salesman types or those outspoken traditionalists and conservatives are more likely to spiritually awake. This is not true. It is not about bravado or toughness, but rather gradual personal discovery of the divine strengths (the king) within, the feminine in the masculine and the masculine in the feminine much like Buddha, Jesus or the character Aragorn in the movie Return of the King
flying8speedistra 4 years ago 3
You can say more with less if you say it from a better understanding. And that would require a little more experience, it seems. Best you plug this leak with whatever you have in your pocket, for now, until you can find a qualified surgeon.
SamFreedom 4 years ago
Hey Sammy, you made the pants too long.
This is about an ancient wisdom, not something
that you might run into in beer bars of San
Francisco.
You sound like a guy who enjoys a stout, but
insist that the hops be Saaz. And with you
that's only half the problem. Your are in essence very mixed up!! Weren't you the guy who insisted that LSD, would cure your problem.
It didn't work did it, now you are more confused than ever.
I feel for you Sammy.
fntime 4 years ago
As only man number 2 can feel but I appreciate your intentions even if they fall short.
SamFreedom 3 years ago
The key ingredients to esoteric enlightenment are failures but self-analysis, hardship but not torture, curiosity but not blind submission, humour, observing the principle of analogy and patterns, awareness of one's uniqueness but compassionate, constant philosophising how things "are"...among others in contrast to the ways of many teachers of "advanced religions" that emphasised non-reasoning and "coldness"
flying8speedistra 4 years ago 4
Enlightened spiritual development cannot be induced by encouraging group mentality and oneness alone and the use of shock keeping straight. Examples of those inclined to tune to the "universal consciousness" like Barrios, Bruce Lee, Mother Teresa, Schweitzer, Gandhi, Einstein even examples found in fiction like Elektra, Neo in the movie matrix, or the latest Batman show how they "awakened" themselves
flying8speedistra 4 years ago 2
flying8speedistra, want to write a book? :D
don't do it on youtube if so
AgathoDaimon911991 4 years ago
Teachers of advanced martial arts, ballet, classical music, theoretical physics etc would agree with my observation that give freedom and and support those unique dreamy ones are more likely to "awake" the hero within. Although G is right in many ways but should have observed and adjusted for this as his own experiences and character are testimony to this.
flying8speedistra 4 years ago
No.
SamFreedom 4 years ago 3
I teach very gifted bright intelligent students & I observe something that G missed. Those students who are (sensing judgers) are more likely to become unquestioning hardworking robots. They may be more attentive and fast learners but less inclined to "awake". In contrast those few unique ones that seem to drift from the mainstream, dreamy (yet on a quest, "man on a mission",) actively seeking truths and sees "patterns" (perceivers) are the ones who are more inclined towards transformation.
flying8speedistra 4 years ago
Yes.
SamFreedom 4 years ago
The Teachings of Gurdjieff will last for ever. The closer to the source of knowledge, the purer the water. Only fools and the ignorant will drown it it! :)
Very best regards from DIMschool Belgium
School voor Ontwikkeling van de Innerlijke Mens.
Tsennekikke 4 years ago
The Teachings of Gurdjieff will never ever die ! The closer to the source of knowledge, the purer the water. But only fools and the ignorant will will drown in it. :)
Best regards from DIMschool Belgium
School voor Ontwikkeling van de Innerlijke Mens
Tsennekikke 4 years ago
While the dances were interesting and really quite lovely, after reviewing it some more, I too found it a little stifling. I have to say, LOVED the ecstatic dancing of that guy @ 1:16...now THAT is more my style. LOL!
Sarakiel 4 years ago
The crazed out of control guy represents your out of controlled mind. The 'stifling' rhythms of the others reel in the out of control subconscious(wild man). It feels good to be wild, but it can also kill you/or make you insane. I imagine alot of people enjoy that crazed little man... we are crazed and it feels good to release it
In the long run it feels better to control it, than allowing it to control you..
crazedmystic 4 years ago
Nice, thank you.
SamFreedom 4 years ago
There's more to it than that...
nilent 4 years ago
Haskellbob, it is better make no commments on deep world of meanings if you do not know deeper ones.Useless empty western mentality is really pathetic.Emperialism and all the massacre around etc.Dirty.Did you find yourself?If they try go out of their way.You say you wouldn't stand for a minute but you are still there:)
aserdarkarababa 4 years ago
Stupid consumeristic eastern mentality
crazedmystic 4 years ago
Hu !
Jazzgriot 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Gurdjieff ripped off these dances from the Sufis and then taught them to students in the west so that he could scam them out of their money! Gurdjieff was a complete fraud and those that still meet to discuss his ideas ignore the fact that he used to brag about fleecing the "sheep" to get the money he wanted for his extravagant lifestyle. Unbeleivably there is still soo many gullible people that Gurdjieff schools are still being formed!
ross78240 4 years ago
Put up or shut up Ross, show us your evidence...go on...please!
Mokkor 4 years ago
I agree that it's sad that people can be such sheep. I have begun to get over my anger at these groups and Gurdjieff himself by getting away from the people in those groups, who tend to be rather pathetic in many ways... They get something they need, which I guess is good, but I myself wouldn't stand for it for a minute!
haskellbob 4 years ago
Did they create your anger or did you.. Haskell 99.9% of the people in this world are pathetic. Look in the mirror you self absorbed narcissist
crazedmystic 4 years ago
Thank you. I often do.
haskellbob 4 years ago
The solution of the problem of Narcissus is the fulfillment of self-love rather than its renunciation. We meet here a common error of the moralizing ego which tries to create a loving personality by extirpating self-love. This is a profound psychological mistake and only causes a psychic split. Fulfilled self-love is a prerequisite to the genuine love of any object, and to the flow of psychic energy in general.
haskellbob 4 years ago 2
Gurdjieff was the ultimate narcissist - in the negative sense.: _"The cult leader does not escape dependency. Instead, he (and also, in many cases, she) comes to depend on his followers to worship and adore him, to reflect his narcissistic delusion of perfection to him as does the mirror to the Evil Queen in the tale of Snow White. Cult leaders use manic defenses to rationalize and justify their dependence on the projections and trust funds of their wealthy followers."
haskellbob 4 years ago
I depend on everyone. No Man is an Island. We got a bunch underdeveloped baby Islands crying for themselves.
crazedmystic 4 years ago
Baloney: I've been a member of an authentic Gurdjieff group for 20 years: during that span $15 dollars/mth for dues has been the standard amount asked for (and even that isnt mandatory). And so many of the Gurdjieff commnunity are amazing artists, photographers, sculptors, dancers, Etc. I have been around them and personally witnessed their own spiritual fulfillment. So haskelbob, i don't which group you're looking at, but its far from what is the real deal, in terms of a Gurdjieff group.
surrealufo999 4 years ago 2
Just the opposite: G turned people away and turned them off intentionally...he could have been the ultimate Scientologist/Moonie cultist had he given in to those temptations.
The least thing G was after was to be "worshipped" or "adored". To the extent that anyone fell into that trap; they were/are foolish at best.
nilent 4 years ago
Narcissus killed himself after realizing what he was looking at was just a lie.
Self-love does not help anybody. It hurts everyone you sick little toad
Are You Happy with your latte and color tv? sitin' at home all alone in your own self-loving narcissistic head?
crazedmystic 4 years ago
Well said; we're all in the same leaky "boat".
nilent 4 years ago
I feel your sever pain Ross... You think its anger
its really fear
crazedmystic 4 years ago
If I remember correctly about the sufi dance, the movements are VERY precise, though most people only notice the whirling. And yes there is surrender of personal freedom in all sacred dances. Surrender to GOD. Which is the point of all religions, I think.
Sarakiel 4 years ago 3
Geprodis, you advertise your ignorance well. Do you even have an idea why they learn these movements? Back to your cage little monkey.
kenrayboy 4 years ago
these dances are very difficult - I have practiced some when I was younger - they use all your senses moving at different times in an awkward coordination - they only work when you let them happen!
sporad 4 years ago 4
Nice
xwsftassell 4 years ago 2
D urante las prácticas que se lleven a cabo, nos damos cuenta que en cada sesión se convierte en un "laboratorio de la vida" misma, vivimos situaciones de IDENTIFICACION como el miedo al rechazo, la necesidad de perfección, el miedo al ridículo, el enojo, la impaciencia y la intolerancia, encontrando las formas para disolverlas.
cariberos 4 years ago 2
Bravo- yo estoy de acuerdo con todos sus commentarios.
Gracias por compartir sus experiencias del trabajo.
sukita1060 4 years ago
A través del trabajo correcto de pensamientos, emociones, sensaciones y movimientos del cuerpo, así como el ejercicio de la voluntad conciente, paulatinamente nos desplazamos de la dispersión psíquica a las concentración total y de la tensión física (estrés) a la relajación total, la práctica continua de este trabajo en forma correcta permite la realización de los movimientos y experimentar a estados crecientes de conciencia.
cariberos 4 years ago 2
El trabajo de las danzas sagradas se considera como un tipo de meditación en movimiento, su práctica requiere de un gran esfuerzo de atención dividida, después de varias sesiones se puede experimentar el recuerdo de sí y la autoobservación. El movimiento de cabez, brazos y manos, piernas y pies, entre otras partes del cuerpo, siguiendo diferentes direcciones, genera una gran demanda de atención y un alto nivel de conciencia para evitar la equivocación.
cariberos 4 years ago 2
Muchas gracias por éste maravilloso video!! Tuve la oportunidad de ejecutar esta danza y al encontrar ésta sorpresa me causa una inmensa alegria.
cariberos 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This is retarded. Damn monkeys will believe anything. They are just dying to be told what to do. "I wonder if I can get a bunch of people to dance around like fools..." mission accomplished Gurdjieff.
Geprodis 4 years ago
GOOD FOR SOMEONE THAT KNOWS NOTHING
NEOIVAN1324 4 years ago 3
Foul, read Gurdjieff and then comment. Or else, it is clear everything you say is prejudgement, western brainwashed mindless degenerated that call yourself human. You don't understand a thing, maybe not even what I am saying here!
aski5 3 years ago
Hey is there any way I can get the download of this?
Sarakiel 4 years ago
You could buy the movie. Or check your library.
nilent 4 years ago
foda!
vnicolav 4 years ago
An amazing, albeit unusual video clip. I have never even heard of Gurdjieff until I began looking up clips of dervishes and other similar religious ceremonies.
Sarakiel 4 years ago 3
Who is it that sees Gurdjieff as "crazy"? Upon what grounds? Where are the prejudgments coming from? Do they come from society? Who writes them on the Internet? Have you been able to go inside the mind of Gurdjieff and investigate his "lunacy"?
LeavesinTibet 4 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Anyone who falls for the Gurdjieff scam is crazy, but there's no getting through to them. Gurdjieff himself was one step away from the madhouse; he only avoided madness by making others believe he was, instead of crazy, in touch with "special powers". The things I say (albeit EXTREMELY UNUSUAL) are profound and special because they come from a highly gifted individual... So I'm not crazy, right? I'm a kind of god, but I'm not crazy.
Gurdjieff followers get what they deserve.
haskellbob 4 years ago
i guess there's no reasoning with you. i'll stop trying.
mongrelmutt22 4 years ago
Same here.
haskellbob 4 years ago
You really enjoy lying a great deal.
EduardoMolinillo 4 years ago
nonsense: just b/c you may not be able to understand some of the concepts, don't generalize about those who follow the Gurdjieff "scam".
just as an example: i could call Mormonism a cult, etc, but no, wait! those are supposedly upstanding leaders of communities, ETc! on and on it goes.. . Haskelbob, i'm surprised that you fell for the scam of being human, --
surrealufo999 4 years ago 2
Wait until you meet someone involved in the groups; you may find then the strangeness and the mind-control of a negative kind that affected me; the "something special", when the Gurdjieff system is involved, is dubious at best. In my opinion. At worst it is surrender of personal freedom to a set of extremely suspect beliefs that masquerade as profundity.
haskellbob 4 years ago
what groups are you talking about? its well known that there r many fakey individuals who set up their own groups and claim to be transmitting gurdjieff's teachings. then theres the Foundation, which is run by gurdjieff's actual students, all of the still alive ones very old, that is a very serious spiritual group imho (i am not affiliated with them, though. for reals) if theres any fault with people from the Foundation that i have met, however, is that they can be a lil elitist and snooty.
mongrelmutt22 4 years ago
I can see beauty in this dance, and a sense of sacred.
Really nice to see these opinions. They´re really in touch with something special, what´s very different of the concept of God as whe usually believe in Ocident.
luamargarida 4 years ago 4
It´s just a personal reaction. Knowing what I know about Gurdjieff and the people who flock to him, these dances seem to me like turning over one's freedom. They think they're in touch with something very special, and since that something is almost totally unrelated to what I think of as God, it's disgusting to me. any kind of spiritual elitism hypnosis or cultish behavior really bugs me. If you can see beauty in it, although I can't myself, more power to you.
haskellbob 4 years ago
ah, just look at the dervish dances here as yoga or tai chi: controlled movements in a religious dance/sequence where complete focus is required. the limited experience i have had with these kinds of things does make me feel these practices are absolutely worthwhile. if these physical prayers bother you, then just get on your knees, hold your palms together, and recite prayers for a long while. same dealie, except the prayer is spoken or mental instead of physical. at least, thats my opinion.
mongrelmutt22 4 years ago
Tai Chi is actually a martial art, so the focus is different, surely.
moominpic 4 years ago
i duno. i mean the chinese have developed all these chi theories, and do all sorts of physical exercises related to chi. i'm guessing this religious/spiritual aspect of tai chi is central, and the exercises designed to kick someone's arse would be seen as secondary. not an expert, though.
mongrelmutt22 4 years ago
Sorry, I suppose I'm being pedantic. There's Chi Kung, which is specifically for the development of Chi. To be fair, I suppose it depends on how you learn TC as to what the emphasis is. Initially it was a martial art and the emphasis in recent years has ben more related to the 'spiritual' and some forms only emphasize that.
moominpic 4 years ago
Why is it "disgusting?"
VerdureVision 4 years ago
Disgusting!
haskellbob 4 years ago
Oh! Why, please?
locadelbosque 4 years ago
You are actually taking about yourself, aren't you?
aski5 3 years ago
Amazing!
bzeliotis 4 years ago