If you have both the plain and the runway connected to the same pully system, how in the hell does that make them "isolated". blah... kitchen table physics fail.
@ZeroG84 Troll fail - the pulley system is to ensure that the plane and the conveyor are both moving at the same speed. The isolation - and this is the tricky part - comes from the wheels, which dissipate friction. That means the plane and the conveyor are not going to act on each other in any meaningful way. Stay in school kids.
Too stupid for words. It's isolated. Exactly. All this shows is you've got a string from car to plane. Remove cloth. It still moves the plane to the end...... It's not forces. It's distance. On real runway, 3 foot circumference wheel moves the plane forward 3 foot in one rotation. With mythical conveyors, you take away rotation and forward movement. Conveyor (not plane thrust) is unlimited. It can always match plane (not wheel) speed. Thrust is not Lift. Plane in place. No wind. No Lift.
@btankful You're under the misconception that the plane moves forward on ground because of the wheels. In fact, the plane only moves because of the propeller (or jet engine). The wheels you speak of are only there to allow the plane to roll on the ground. The propeller is what is moves the plane. The experiment shows that even when the speed of the plane and the speed of the conveyor are equal (thanks to the car), the plane still takes off.
@Gaffeghan Please. We all know the power is not from the wheels. Original puzzle creator wants you to make two leaps of logic. One, prop thrust not wheel power. Two, if conveyor is unlimited it can always Match speed of plane negating forward motion. It's a mind trap for those who stop after the first. "Getting it" is not picturing that even with extremely fast wheel spin, 1% inertia/friction is overcome with 99% thrust left. Again, cut your string, Match cloth with plane SPEED. No motion.
@btankful The whole point of the car powering both is to ensure that the plane and the cloth move at the same speed. Since the wheels are there to isolate the plane from the ground (or conveyor), the plane is not resisted by the conveyor at all. The cloth does match the speed of the plane, but in the opposite direction. You're complaining that I didn't do what I did do. You're second leap of logic is erroneous. The speed is matched, and the result is that the plane takes off anyway.
@Gaffeghan By definition, speed of the plane is MATCHED by the ground. Granted, after inertia+friction, very little thrust needed to go forward. Wheel and ground are as good as two gears (until liftoff). One revo, 3 feet ahead. Each small throttle up (thrust) can be countered by much conveyor spin. It takes a lot of ground movement, yes, but conveyor is Infinite. It keeps this up until thrust is maxed. Forward plane only means it is NOT matched by the ground. Misinterpreted original premise.
@btankful "A plane is placed on a conveyor belt as long and as wide as a runway. As the plane moves forward, the conveyor matches it's speed in the opposite direction. Can the plane take off?" How is the premise misinterpreted in my experiment? If the conveyor accelerates at the same rate as the plane, the plane moves forward and the wheels spin twice as fast as normal.
shouldn't the experiment be on a 50 foot long belt. Since a plane on a treadmill isn't going to make the distance it needs to travel to gain airspeed shorter.
An aircraft's motion is measured relative to the air, not the ground. As the thrust acts on the air, not the ground, the plane can take off normally, since the conveyor belt has no effect on the airspeed of the plane. Prop pushes back on air, plane moves forwards. The only effect of the conveyor is that the wheels will rotate at twice their usual speed.
However, you add the speed of the airplane + the speed of the conveyor belt. Thus, the particle can accelerate super fast(itself + conveyor belt acceleration) in a short distance. like creating a bomb with atoms.
@alexanderssson Sorry, didn't get that. It's simple enough to understand- the conveyor belt moves backwards at the same speed as the aircraft's forward movement. If you measure the aircraft's airspeed, it moves down the runway and takes of as normal, just with the wheels turning twice as fast. If you measure groundspeed (i.e by the rotation of the wheels) you can't satisfy the parameters of the experiment unless the aircraft is stationary.
You are totaly right. However, both particles are moving, so we have Airplane speed + belt speed. Nevertheless, the air play an important role in the experiment as you stated;thus, I not only agree with you but also i believe that the conveyor belt and the wheels play an important role in the case.
If you have both the plain and the runway connected to the same pully system, how in the hell does that make them "isolated". blah... kitchen table physics fail.
ZeroG84 10 months ago
@ZeroG84 Troll fail - the pulley system is to ensure that the plane and the conveyor are both moving at the same speed. The isolation - and this is the tricky part - comes from the wheels, which dissipate friction. That means the plane and the conveyor are not going to act on each other in any meaningful way. Stay in school kids.
Gaffeghan 10 months ago 4
Too stupid for words. It's isolated. Exactly. All this shows is you've got a string from car to plane. Remove cloth. It still moves the plane to the end...... It's not forces. It's distance. On real runway, 3 foot circumference wheel moves the plane forward 3 foot in one rotation. With mythical conveyors, you take away rotation and forward movement. Conveyor (not plane thrust) is unlimited. It can always match plane (not wheel) speed. Thrust is not Lift. Plane in place. No wind. No Lift.
btankful 1 year ago
@btankful You're under the misconception that the plane moves forward on ground because of the wheels. In fact, the plane only moves because of the propeller (or jet engine). The wheels you speak of are only there to allow the plane to roll on the ground. The propeller is what is moves the plane. The experiment shows that even when the speed of the plane and the speed of the conveyor are equal (thanks to the car), the plane still takes off.
Gaffeghan 1 year ago
@Gaffeghan Please. We all know the power is not from the wheels. Original puzzle creator wants you to make two leaps of logic. One, prop thrust not wheel power. Two, if conveyor is unlimited it can always Match speed of plane negating forward motion. It's a mind trap for those who stop after the first. "Getting it" is not picturing that even with extremely fast wheel spin, 1% inertia/friction is overcome with 99% thrust left. Again, cut your string, Match cloth with plane SPEED. No motion.
btankful 1 year ago
@btankful The whole point of the car powering both is to ensure that the plane and the cloth move at the same speed. Since the wheels are there to isolate the plane from the ground (or conveyor), the plane is not resisted by the conveyor at all. The cloth does match the speed of the plane, but in the opposite direction. You're complaining that I didn't do what I did do. You're second leap of logic is erroneous. The speed is matched, and the result is that the plane takes off anyway.
Gaffeghan 1 year ago
@Gaffeghan By definition, speed of the plane is MATCHED by the ground. Granted, after inertia+friction, very little thrust needed to go forward. Wheel and ground are as good as two gears (until liftoff). One revo, 3 feet ahead. Each small throttle up (thrust) can be countered by much conveyor spin. It takes a lot of ground movement, yes, but conveyor is Infinite. It keeps this up until thrust is maxed. Forward plane only means it is NOT matched by the ground. Misinterpreted original premise.
btankful 1 year ago
@btankful "A plane is placed on a conveyor belt as long and as wide as a runway. As the plane moves forward, the conveyor matches it's speed in the opposite direction. Can the plane take off?" How is the premise misinterpreted in my experiment? If the conveyor accelerates at the same rate as the plane, the plane moves forward and the wheels spin twice as fast as normal.
Gaffeghan 1 year ago
shouldn't the experiment be on a 50 foot long belt. Since a plane on a treadmill isn't going to make the distance it needs to travel to gain airspeed shorter.
taledarkside 1 year ago
My brilliant home schooled nephew. Saffy
saffernellie 2 years ago
I have the same RC car stashed underneath my bed, lol.
DeeJayBounce 2 years ago
very well done vid i must say.
diazflac07 3 years ago 2
Brilliant.
miketwo345 3 years ago 2
An aircraft's motion is measured relative to the air, not the ground. As the thrust acts on the air, not the ground, the plane can take off normally, since the conveyor belt has no effect on the airspeed of the plane. Prop pushes back on air, plane moves forwards. The only effect of the conveyor is that the wheels will rotate at twice their usual speed.
petem1989 3 years ago 13
Yup.
Gaffeghan 3 years ago
@petem1989
However, you add the speed of the airplane + the speed of the conveyor belt. Thus, the particle can accelerate super fast(itself + conveyor belt acceleration) in a short distance. like creating a bomb with atoms.
alexanderssson 2 years ago
@alexanderssson Sorry, didn't get that. It's simple enough to understand- the conveyor belt moves backwards at the same speed as the aircraft's forward movement. If you measure the aircraft's airspeed, it moves down the runway and takes of as normal, just with the wheels turning twice as fast. If you measure groundspeed (i.e by the rotation of the wheels) you can't satisfy the parameters of the experiment unless the aircraft is stationary.
petem1989 2 years ago
@petem1989
You are totaly right. However, both particles are moving, so we have Airplane speed + belt speed. Nevertheless, the air play an important role in the experiment as you stated;thus, I not only agree with you but also i believe that the conveyor belt and the wheels play an important role in the case.
alexanderssson 2 years ago
Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.....
mike21b 4 years ago 2
Airplane much?
God I miss Lloyd Bridges!
charmi0204 4 years ago
Yeah....
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit smoking
mike21b 4 years ago
Forces are equal but isolated...really...COOL!
bob173rd 4 years ago 6
Very interesting. Thank you!
charmi0204 4 years ago
Twisting my brain, but I think I get it. Thanks!
charmi0204 4 years ago
The forces are isolated! The center cannot hold! MAYDAY! MAYDAY!
Hey. This is way nifty and more than a little cool.
angularallen 4 years ago 2