And these Soviets were the same ones who sat in judgement at Nuremberg and ranted about German 'crimes' of waging aggressive war and war crimes. These were the same Soviets whose leader Americans called 'Uncle Joe' or 'Good Ole Joe'
and whom they allowed to swallow and enslave half of Europe.
Go and walk on Vyborg and watch those houses, read the history of the city, read about those architects who have designed those houses. For example: Alvar Aalto, Aarne Sarvela, Ragnar Amadeus Ypyä, Erkki Huttunen etc.
"if you don't know what fascist means pls look it up in wikipedia and stop pretending you are a smart one" I know well what fascist means but it seems you don't know a thing. If you know wikipedia, go there and read about it. You certainly need that information.
My grandfather told me that he was in Viipuri when the russians bombed it. He was evacuating civilians together with the finnish-swedish volunteers. After a while the soldiers just freaked out and started running away from the bombers or whatever. And my grandfather, with he's bare eyes saw how they ran straight into the blasts and explosions. I'm just glad he didn't start running and just took cover.
Finnish soldiers averted part of Soviet troops and helped to German Fascists to blocade Leningrad. Embassy of Great Britain in Helsinki even sent protests to Mannerheim due to continued Finnish attacks at Ladoga. Learn your own history by documents not by propaganda.
You are actually a bit wrong here, you are using fragments of the story and make a truth of your own. It was actually requested by stalin that the western allies should declare war and wage war against Finland. The western part of the alliance actually understood that Finland fought for their freedom, so they limited themselves to protest. Remember the words of Churchill "Only Finland - superb, nay, sublime in the jaws of peril - Finland shows what free men can do."
The quote of Churchill was made during the winter war, but the understanding of Finlands critical situation having Russia as its neighbour prevented more actions from the rest. Nobody wanted Russia in Finland, except Russia. From a western perspective the allegiance with Russia as an ally was a deal with the devil to fight another devil. Finland was 'only' brother in arms with Germany and this due that neither France nor Britain could assist Finland with troops due to geographic location@1st war
You are like the other idiot russians... I know what information they gave and give in your schools and the propoganda on TV. Russia will never bee friends to Finland and other people who sufferd from you thro the ages.
Facist Finland? You really are something. Finland has never been facist. I guess I have been talking this with you before and you still keep spreading this nonsense. Finland was democratic country during WW2 if you didn't know that less. You were far away from democratic country and it seems you are now as well. So who should call who facists? It's not you or any of russians. You should think how educated you look when you call finns facists. Incredible.
@tupakki Yes, fascist. For us you were fascist. Do you know how liberation day in Vyborg called? It's liberation of Vyborg from Fascist Finland. It's an official holiday. So yes, you were fascist and stilla are.
Please define me fascist and so called fascist Finland. Can you do that for me? Still are? This is very funny. Are you a comedian? There is not such thing as liberation day of Vyborg. The day is a stealing day of Vyborg from legal owners. That's the right term. I can't understand how somebody can be so stupid and call that liberation. It's pure stupidity thats why I use term stupid. Now the city needs liberation, not before. If you celebrate a crime, there is much wrong in your system.
@tupakki You've just answered your own question. just read what you wrote. Yes there is such a day in Russia and this day is official!!!! Get it please! Also Finland sign all border treaties with Russia so say bye-bye to Karelia, which should always stay within Russia anyway as Finland was part of Russian Empire. So to keep it short, 1)Karelia is Russia and stay as such forever, 2)Vyborg has a liberation day.
I answered to my questions? Stop that joking, I can't take it much more. Admit that you can't even define terms that you are using. Seen that before from russian mouth. I know its official and what it tells of your country? That's the different subject. Finland did sign Paris treaty because it was forced. Even allied wouldn't want to give those areas to Russia but Stalin was crooked and tricked Finland and allies like with Poland.
@tupakki I'm not joking around with you. I'm preatty serious about this. Look at the internet here, look at your replies to me. They are all stink with finish nationalism and schovenism. You Finn's are were and always will be faschists. If you were fooled by Stalin then it's your problem. Stalin fooled a lot of people and nations. btw Stalin was not Russian. What with Poland? Poland was devided between Germany and Soviet Union there was not any crookage behind that
Then you are telling jokes seriously. Don't expect me to take you seriously when you speak in that way. Facist and other hilarious stories. My replies stink with finnish nationalism and chauvinism? Here we go again. I could say something about your behaving but I won't bother. :) I know Stalin wasn't russian but almost all of his closest men were. So there is no point to say that. Read the Churchill's memories, part Russia and Poland - The Soviet Promise, then you know what I mean.
@tupakki who is Churchill? Is Churchill a God or something? He could write whatever was best to suite him. Stalin wrote a lots of stories too, does it mean they are true? lol Anyway, Stalin had only one man near him all the time - Lavrentiy Beria (who's also a georgian) let's see who else? There was Mikoyan, who's Armenian, there was Rokossovski, who was Polish, there was Molotov, who was a jew? Pls name who else you think might be responsible for all evil besides Stalin?
At conference of Yalta, Roosevelt, Stalin and Churchill made a statement that Poland will be an independent country after WW2 because Poland was a reason why WW2 started at first place. Stalin tried to tell that Poland need to be under Soviet Union in safety reasons. Roosevelt and Churchill didn't agree so Stalin promised to respect polish independence. After when red army entered to polish soil, Stalin started to tell stories that polish troops attacked against russian soldiers. Just lies.
@tupakki lol here you go. go to tell this funny polish story to somebody in Finland not to me :) Red Army moved to Poland in 1943-44 on the way to Berlin. Now if you are talking about Katyn that's a different story, which leads back to 1940.. So don't come with this bull shit of yours about Soviet Union occupying Poland etc
Watch what I said. Don't you know at all what for Yalta conference were? Don't try to mix something that I haven't never said. Write Yalta conference on google and read about it. This is from wikipedia: "The Western Powers soon realized that Stalin would not honor his free elections promise regarding Poland." Katyn is a different stroy, I agree. Soviet Union occupied Poland and I can't understand how somebody can be so ignorant and say something else. How you can say something different?
@tupakki I only read Russian virsion of Wikipedia, sorry and I didn't find this bull shit that you're talking about. When did Soviet Union occupied Poland? Please enlight me on that
These polish people fought against Germany in uprising. So what happened then? Stalin betrayed allies and Poland.
I agree that Stalin had many men from Ukraine, Poland, Georgia, you name it. So what difference it makes if Molotov was a jew? Many of those people who were on Russian revolution were jews. There is Lenin who made so awful crimes in Russia and he was russian. I also want to pick Stalin's Stavka, more than half of its members were russians. What Stavka did with Stalin?
@tupakki what da hell do they teach you in Finland? I can't believe you are so brainwashed, omg! Stalin betrayed allies, which was Poland? wtf? Poland was never an allie of Russia, plus you probobably never herd of Russian-Polish wars, the recent one was in 1920's Now if you're talking about 1944 soviet offence and Polish uprising at same time, that's a different storry, but I can't tell what are you talking about so I'm guessing
Are you high or something? Read what I said. Not too hard to read few lines of text. Don't try to mix something which is not relevant for the content. I said uprising troops because Stalin said himself that those same polish people attacked against red army in Poland as they did with german troops earlier. What is so hard to understand?
You wanted names so I will give you names: Georgy Zhukov, Semyon Budyonny, Nikolai Gerasimovich Kuznetsov, Boris Shaposhnikov, Kirill Meretskov, Nikolai Vatutin, Andrei Ždanov, Georgy Malenkov, Lev Mekhlis, Vasili Blokhin. The last name of Blokhin was the chief executioner of the Stalinist NKVD, for example Khatyn massacre is his work sample. You can't say that russians haven't done anything during Stalin's bloody era, they have. I didn't even pick Lenin's era which was very bloody as well.
@tupakki as I said you're brainwashed to the point that everybody who's born in the Soviet Union is automatically get labeled as a davil. Georgy Zhukov is a brilliant Russian commander who defeated Germany in WWII. He has nothing to do with Finland or any other bull shit you're trying to get him to. Most of the ppl in your list are not Russian, even your Blokhin was a Ukrainian. What do you know about Katyn?
Not true at all. There is people in Russia who know how things went. All russian people are not like you who say that everything which isn't soviet or russian propaganda are lies from western countries. That's very funny. Actually Zhukov was a chief of staff of the Soviet army during the Winter War and he was a member of Stalin's Stavka who made only few innocent plans to invade independent countries. Yes he was a saint. Every people I said were russian citizen. Blokhin also russian.
@tupakki What da fuck is stavka has to do anything? Do you know what savka means in Russian? So what he was cheif of stuff. If he was in charge of winter war 1939 operation he would plan it very carefully and would have much different approuche so that you'd speak Russian to me now. Those people were Soviet citizens first of all and Blokhin was a Ukrainian.
Read operation plans of red army and you know what stavka means and it's actions. What it has to do with Winter War and with other wars. Stavka means military headquarters, same as german Oberkommando der Wehrmacht. What happened for example german field marshal Keitel who was a part of german military headquarters? He wasn't a nazi crimainal. Same with your Stavka. It was same as german and did awful things. So those russian men are not innocent for anything.
@tupakki loool, a finn is going to tell me what is what in Russian :))) bravo! Stavka litterly means " a bet in casino etc" but back then it mean, millitary headquarters in Russain is "Gen./General'niy Shtab" or General Staff. I hope we're clear on that now.
Did I want to literally tell what it means? Did I literally translated german headquarters? No I did not. I explained what it means. Don't stick on things which has nothing to do with the subject.
Twisting? There is nothing evil on the word itself. The evil part is when we watch who were in Stavka and what actions they did. That's what I ment. So what twisting is with that? You can say that they didn't anything bad that they all were heroes? Their every actions were made by the book?
They attacked against Finland, made plan how to occupy baltic countries, operation in Poland with nazi-Germany. Those for example. All of those were imperialistic actions and broke so many international laws. Like with Finland it broke a non-aggression pact between our countries and what's the most important, Tarto peace pact. Remember terror bombings against finnish civilians in Winter War. There is much that the highter military staff were responsible. Politicians as well as in Germany.
@tupakki for everything blame your Georgian friends Stalin and Beria, not Russian people. Plus nothing happens without a reason. Finland must fuck something up to piss Soviet Union off.
Yes you are right about one thing here. I don't blame normal russian people. Many of them didn't want any kind of war. They had problems enough for themselves without war. Like during the Winter War a lot of soviet people were starving, long lines of people waited food on streets. Nothing happens without a reason? Finland must fuck something up to piss Soviet Union off? So you don't know a thing if you say things like that. What about Molotov-Ribbentrop pact? Soviet Union wanted Finland.
@tupakki oh don't give me this non sence about Molotvo-Ribbentrop shit. You finns always complain about everything. In fact I have nothing to discuss with you any more, 'cus you won't prove me wrong and I will not convince you neither
Sure, you want to believe in lies. Suit yourself. Molotov-Ribbentrop isn't a shit at all but you want to believe so because russians were walking and holding hands with nazies. That's not suiting your ideology. You just alone saved the world from nazis. Sure and we live in wonderland.
@tupakki yes, we the one who saved the world and defeated Germany and its allies (incl. Finland) in WW II . That's why we have a 9th of May on a red square and everywhere else including Karelia and Vyborg, That's why Vyborg has a libaration day from Faschist Finland.
Yes and I bet you believe in Santa or father frost Still you couldn't explain your favourite word faschist. Is it that hard? You know that world would have needed saving from communism as well. You did not save world by slaving their people, killing them and occupying their countries. You did same that nazi-Germany, again. I bet that is russian way of saving. ;) You don't save anything by bringing larger bad. I bet those millions victims agree and their relatives too.
We did not have a such thing as Stavka. There has not been conentration camps in Karelia. Their names were transfer camps. The idea of those camps were not to kill anybody. Just to eliminate spys and help for soviet army. People died because there was not enough food and health care wasn't good enough. Those were basically same kind of camps that soviets did finnish civilians during the Winter War, only one difference, russied killed finns with too hard work.
@tupakki you can call them transfer camps but they were just a s bad as concentration camps... a lot of civilians died in those death camps build and orcestrated by finland. stop painting russia in the dark colors. we are great people and if we killed any finish civilians they've must fully deserved that
You don't know anything about those finnish camps so stop talking like you would. It was impossible to let so much russian people to walk freely on war zone. They could have made a great damage for finnish army. There were already reconnaisance parachutist and imagine their tasks on so much people. Those finnish civilians not deserved to be killed in russian terror bombing or by work. As russians didn't deserve to die in sicknesses in finnish camps. You are very sick if you say they deserved.
Actually I do. I have been reading about russian prison camps here in Finland, also in those camps in Karelia and about those camps that germans had in Lapland. I know very well what I am talking about here. I bet you haven't read anything. You have heard something and you are spreading it as a fact. Those I have seen much from your mouth. Believe what ever you wish. I really coundn't care less. This is nothing more than waste of time.
@tupakki The problem is that you reading you so called truthful finish bull shit books and I read real sources, documentaries, tales of survivals from those camps. Exactly it is a wast of time even talking to you on this
You don't even know what I am reading but still you are telling them bullshit. You are really funny person. I can say :). I have been reading books from russian writers. I bet you are telling me that translators have translated them wrong. Right? I am sure you do. I have been reading british, german, american. All kind of books. So all of them are just bullshit. You must be very smart person because you can call all of them liars. :) You are an expert in your alrenative history. Well done. :)
Watch this video? Is this just finnish propaganda? There is lost of videos in youtube for example and they are telling same as I am. They are from many countries, BBC, Military history channel etc. Are they all nothing but lies? Is that what you are trying to tell me. Do you even know how paranoiac that sounds? I can answer to that question. Very.
@tupakki look, even though there is a saying about freedom of speech in the west it is not true. BBC, CNN, FOX and others are typically anti-Russian media and always been. The only western media I trust to is EuroNews. So you've failed again in convincing me
Sure that they are telling nothing else than lies about Russia. Very paranoid way of thinking. Have you ever thought that maybe you see it anti-Russian because you don't want to believe in news that don't see Russia in good light? Have you ever thought so? Like if there is bad news about Finland, I don't think they are anti-Finnish because the new is not what I like. It's just liberty of speech that even bad news can be told.
Just once tell me what made Finland fascist in WW2 or nowadays? Tell me what makes me fascist? Don't answer to anything else than this and explain. This is actually so funny and I can't understand why you can't see it by yourself. Read the definition of fascism and compare that to Finland and Russia (also Soviet Union) You might be suprised. ;)
@tupakki you've been Germany's allies, used swastica (eventhough it wasn't originated in Germany) your basic rules and concept of Finland including your attitude and many other finns here on youtube and in general. Many Finns were part of SS during the WW2 etc. Once again, this is why we have lebaration day in Vyborg from fascist Finns.!!!! You will always will be fascist to us
We used swastika even before nazi-Germany and their content it's totally different. Why you even took this up? We have not been Germany's ally. We have been brothers in arms. It's a big difference. Like finnish soldiers were not under germans headquarters like for example romanians were. You were real ally from nazi-Germany and occupied Poland together, had marches together. Did you forget that? Read the agreement of those finnish ss-soldiers ;). You say things that you don't know better.
@tupakki pls tell me a differents between ally and brothers in arms? what a fucking joke you have no logic. What agreement of ss soldiers? ss were cold blooded killers and if finland was part of it you just nazi as Germany was
When you for example compare Finland to Romania. Romania has same goals as Germany did and they fought under germans. For example in Crimea romanian divisions fought under germans. Romanian leader Antonescu gave Hitler free hands to use romanian soldiers. Finland did not. Also one big difference is that Finland did not sign so called Axis pact which is so called Tripartite pact. Try google and watch which countries signed it, you can't find Finland from those countries. Just find out. ;)
@tupakki it doesn't matter what Finland signed on papers. Romanians did not build the concenration camps and didn't tourture ppl with hunger and sickness. Finland on the other hand did all these and also participated in blockaede of Leningrad, which was one of the bloodiest blockades in the history of WW2. I'm suprised Stalin didn't drop and A-Bomb on you for that.
I really wouldn't want to speak with a person who don't know anything about these things. You also added the blockade of Leningrad. The biggest myth of russian history books. You should know already that Finland had nothing to do with that. Read some history books. Read about those soviet troops who were against Finland on that front. Not too hard to find out the truth. Find also that from where millions of people saved themselves. Then stop being absurd and naive.
Not just finnish. International way of thinking. It's just some inner circle who say like you are saying. There is international historians in World who say as I am saying. I have already said one russian historian here and there is more, also german and at least british and french. I haven't noticed american material but I am sure there is. So it's not only finnish myth, not even close. It would be time to update your knowledge.
@tupakki don't forget about west and east confrontation. I can say that Cuban, Venezuelian, Vietnamees, Chinees, Serbian and other Russia's allies would disagree with you and with those who you call international historians. So shut up about this subject. You are not proving me wrong
@zheka1780 I have proved you are wrong many times but you don't want to believe me. What ever I say to you decide to believe opposite. What was the first big confrontation between Allies and Soviet Union? It was Poland when Stalin didn't keep his promises. Then confrontations went from one to one. You haven't even read about those historian but still you are ready to judge them. I also ment some russian historian I am familiar of.
@zheka1780 Just read our conversation and you can find out when I have tried to explain something but you have believed in your thoughts and assumptions.
@tupakki you only tried to spray you your bull shit propoganda the same junk they teach you in schools. If finns did not have an idea of "greater finland" nobody would take karelia from you. When you get greedy you lose everything. I hope this was a well tought lesson to Finland.
@zheka1780 And this couldn't make less sense. Well I wouldn't even want to comment nonsense like this. It seems you don't nothing about the Winter War and time before and after that either. Read the Yuri Kilin's material as I told you that you don't need to say nonsense like this. Then you will know something about Stalin's plans for example and then we can continue this subject. Then lets see who was greedy and who did what. Now you don't know the backgrounds or anything.
@zheka1780 Please tell me some good books. I am fan of reading. How about a book called "Thoughts for operations: finnish army's operation planning in Continuation War". I have read it already so I know Finland's plans in Continuation War. Don't even try to teach me something that you don't know nothing. Maybe the old man on the street have told you some rumours. That's how it looks. Yeah I agree that it really is nothing but waste of time to talk with you. :) You don't know nothing.
@tupakki you can read all this bs which your country publish to bring the morale of depressing country, but I only trust to documentary material and to our veterans who fougth there. So as again, Karelia is now where it should be and Vyborg is a hero city of WWII, The city was lebarated from finish nazi army.
@zheka1780 This is really getting boring. Once again you are telling me that finnish companies only publish books which are anti-Russian or something which can't be trust. You can't see how absurd your statements are? No one is believing nonsense like that and it's actually quite funny but sad at the same time because somebody is telling those seriously. Once again you are trying to appeal my personal feelings. Quite childish. Finnish nazy army? Are you that desperate already?
@zheka1780 And that tells everything about you and your attitude. I wouldn't need to add more on that. I have used russian historians as a source even here because I know they have wrote awesome books from russian side but once again, that's not the "right" truth for you. Still you are saying every finnish books are bad and full of lies. Very funny, once again.
@tupakki Whatever, I'm reading some of the stuff which Yuri Kilin wrote in his books. His opinion on that war is not much differ from oficial publications. Also in one of his book Yuri Kilin accuses Ari Raunio of fabricating some of the data and other facts.
@zheka1780 That's good. What book you are reading at the moment? I can agree that there is statements on books of finnish writers that I don't agree either. I don't know that fabrications you are talking about there but it's happening everywhere because some people see things differently and that's why they write differently. The best is to read same subject from many writers. It giving best way to see the truth.
@tupakki why are you twistin everythin around again? You are as crooked as Stalin. But tomorrow is a Victory Day in Russia. So I'll be easy on you today and will be celebrating tomorrow. BTW, I think you need to join vodka tourism and come to St.Petersburg to get drunk as your fellow finns usually do :))))
@zheka1780 I am not twisting anything. I am just saying how things are. You are comparing me to the World's most evil man? Way to go. You have right to celebrate that you won the Germany but celebrating the theft of Vyborg for example isn't the right thing. It's actually very wrong. I don't really care if some finns go in Russia and get themselves wasted, it's their business. Still thank you for your invite.
@tupakki Nothing wrong with that. In my opinion this is a price Finland should have paid us for its betrayal. Vyborg was celebrating victory day just as every other city in the former soviet union. As more than 200 mil former soviet citizens they see nothing wrong with that
@zheka1780 What are you talking about? Betrayal? You know there would have been any wars if Soviet Union would have attacked against Finland and trying to occupy finnish land. After the Winter War Soviet Union threaten Finland and took areas which they had no right on Moscow treaty like Enso's industrial area. Between Winter and Continuation War was called the time of danger in Finland. You know why? Soviet Union was real threat. SU also shot down finnish airplane Kaleva on peace time. Etc.
@tupakki Finland let Nazi troops come through and also participated in blockaded of Leningrad. I call it betrayal. Also, if Finland wouldn't think about "greater finland" no war would happen
@zheka1780 If you haven't heard. Sweden signed same kind of papers than Finland did and let german troops to go through Sweden. In that logic you are telling me why you didn't declared war against Sweden? Finland didn't participare on a blocked of Leningrad. I can't understand how so many russian are believing so. Read about that front and you understand. There was so little russian soldiers against Finland on that front that Finland could have broken russian defence line.
@tupakki I call it betrayal. This is why stalin took Karelia from you to secure Leningrad. You need to visit St.Peterburg attend millitary museums and see everything for yourself what your fellow countrymen did in Leningrad.
@zheka1780 Finland stopped its attack on line which was easy to defend and were karelian land. Finland tried to get those Karelian areas in Tarto peace treaty but wasn't succeed and many finns said that Finland betrayed karelian brothers. Hows Karelia now and how it would have been with Finland? Karelians wanted to be a part of Finland because Karelia were russianized and I can prove this for you. How great-Finland started these wars?
@tupakki oh yean? What about eastern karelia and finish attacks there? eastern karelia never belonged to finland. If Karelia was russionize why would they want to join finland? doesn't make sence. yes, you've betrayed your fellow finns in karelia when you signed that treat. should have fight to the end but then there won't be any finns left :)
@zheka1780 Have you even called finnish volunteers? They were finnish volunteers who participated on those trips. Not finnish army. Watch the number of those soldiers, there was not so many finnish soldiers. The russification was running on those times and that's why they wanted to be a part of Finland. They knew how sad their future will be. Was they wrong? No they weren't. Yes Finland had to betray those karelians, I agree. Finland has no choice. You are thinking very weirdly. I can say.
@tupakki I don't care if they were valunteers or regular soldiers. Those valonteers had their finish uniform on. They are not sad, who told you those Karelians would be sad? What's so weird about my thinking? cus it's different from yours?
@zheka1780 I can't understand how you can be happy by that fact that your ancestors have destroyed something very important for karelians and finns. I really would be ashamed if I would be living on land that is not even mine. In the saddest case the former owners are on grave because of Stalin and Soviet Union. I can't understand how you can be proud of this kind of crimes. I don't even think it's very healthy to think in that wat. You have some kind of bigger state syndrome.
@tupakki I think you the one who need medication. What for you is crime for me is dirty politics. And I can't understand why you want Karelia when only 26% of Finns support this idea. I'm glad majority of Finns are wise enough to not spoil the relations with Russia
@zheka1780 Once again you haven't payed attention with Finland. At 2000 it was 20%, 2005 it was 36%, 2008 it was 38%, last year 41% want the Karelia back. 72% of finns want that returning negotiations should start with Russia. Want to see facts? Finnish people want to open conversation with Russia, our politicians don't want it. It has a big difference.
@tupakki sorry to break your heart but Karelia isn't coming back to Finland no matter how many Finns want it back. 41% is still not a majority. I think we need to create a new defensive policy and place short distance ballistic missiles in Karelia to cool off your fascist plans
@zheka1780 It's not your call to make. You can see the trend of that poll. It's going higher and higher for every year and it's close to majority. Now again you started to act like a little kid. I don't want to waste more time to talking when you are so absurd. Your way of thining is pretty twisted but this is a free World so do so.
@zheka1780 If i do need medication then there is nothing which could help you ;). It doesn't matter will you use it crime or dirty politics. Outcome is still the same. It's a huge unjustice against Finland. Still I can't understand how it's so hard to see this. Why it need to spoil relations with Russia?
@zheka1780 If you would have asked I would have told you. The peace treaty of Tarto said that russians can decide on what side on the border they want to live. We are not hearthless people and want to force people from their homes. It wouldn't be same that Soviet Union did to finnish people. I would happily take more russians working in Finland than those immigrants than our goverment is shipping. I am sure handing those areas back to Finland those areas would be glowing once again.
@tupakki and I can assure you in vast mojority if not 100% of those Russians would never accept being under Finland. Then what will you do? You really showing your true nationalistic face by comparing russians to the low class islamist/negro enimals which ur government brings to Finland. Actually it's fine with me when Finland will become another France or Germany with full of turks and other islmaists
@zheka1780 Then the majority could move to Russia if being a part of the Finland wouldn't be what they are expecting. No one is forcing anybody and there is much land in Russia they could live at. Many of this population which has populated for example Karelia are from Belarus etc. and many people are working for goverment so they would go anyway. If you don't understand what I ment by those immigrants then don't even try to say something as stupid as you said. I don't even want to reply that.
@tupakki woow! what a nice plan you just put. I guess all you have to do is go to your government and talk to them about it I'm sure they will listen to you with much attention. You will fail. Nobody will move out the place they were born nobody would want to learn your ugly language and inhabit your twisted culture. so as I said shove your ignorance up in your ass and shut up about Karelia return
@tupakki it's trully shows your nationalistic and ignorant face when you compared our people to low class immigrants which your gov't imports to Finland, which are ppl from africa and arab countries. Actually I don't mind to see Finland being in the same situation as France, That would be nice
@zheka1780 You are saying something like that to me? I suggest that self-examination would be the right thing for you. You are eager to call somebody with terms and not thinking how well those would suit on you. You know Finland is not even close to France. I really don't want to waste more time with you. Talking with a dog would be more educated. You really can't have a proper conversation with facts or not even close. You are appealing to feelings which tells the level of your attitude.
@tupakki to many words from you and much less sence! By France I mean that I don't mind to see Finland being occupied by ppl from middle east and africa :) That would really blend your population and your nationalism :)
@zheka1780 If there is nothing wrong with you. Then you don't Winter and Continuation War good enough. Soviet Union started both wars against Finland and not forgetting that Stalin started whole WW2 with Hitler. Next if you try to tell me that Finland started the Continuation War. Read who asked to bomb finnish targets like airfields and finnish navy and when this happened? Then compare that day to day when Finland started the war. What you can see? If that's not wrong to you. What is?
@tupakki Having Vyborg in Russia is not wrong for me. Finland was part of Russian Empire in the first place so you've lost your land during the war. Time to get over it and start thinking about future.
@zheka1780 You know that part of Karelia Soviet Union stole from Finland is called an old Finland. Write it on google and you will see. Vyborg has never been russian city even it has been a part of Russia. Finland was a Grand Duchy of Finland which means Finland was an autonomic area which had own borders for example. Still I can't understand why we should forget an old Finland. We are thinking about the future and hoping that those areas will be a part of Finland once again.
@tupakki once again I repeat stop saying that we stoled it from you. You gave it away, you've lost the war and lost your land. Look the meaning of the word "stealing". The only possible way to have these lands as part of Finland is for Finland again bacome part of Russian Empire on the same terms as it was during Tsarist Russia. I will have no problem about that. Otherwise you can forget about Karelia
@zheka1780 What other term you would use? Do you think finns happily gave those land to Soviet Union and smiled? They were forced. If a man on street comes on you and take your money by forcing you with a gun. You are just happy and say. He deserve them because I gave them. You do so? Becaming a part of Russia? Now I am sure you are having in ideology that a bigger country can do what ever day wish. It was same during the WW2. Seems at least you haven't changed a bit but you should.
@tupakki sorry but you fought the war and you lost it including your land. If Finland was part of Soviet Union and after 1991 it would have its independance, thus, you'd have you Karelia. But instead you want to fight against us with nazi germany. So you've lost your land and it's ours now. say good bye to it.
@zheka1780 We fought wars that we forced by Soviet Union. If Finland would be a part of Soviet Union after WW2, whole country would much different. Just watching eastern European countries, like baltic states. I have been talking about history so much with you but still you are telling nonsense for me. I am really just wasting my time with you. Soviet Union forced Finland to have protection from Germany. Watch your own part of history and don't be arrogant.
@tupakki you're the one who is arrogant and ignorant and delusional about wanting Karelia back. My advise to you go to Vyborg and start telling ppl that you want Karelia back :))) I may just see you sick face on the news then with a title "finish nationalist has been killed in Vyborg for spreading separatism" :)
You can call all of those more than two million finns in the same term. Actually when finnish businessmen said a proposal that Finland give a permission for russian gaspipe going through finnish territorial waters if Finland get Karelia back. Many people in Vyborg liked the idea as it was in newspapers. You can find that from russian pages where they were writting about it. (h/ttp)(:)//engforum(.)pravda(.)ru/showthread(.)php?259929-Finnish-businessmen-to-stop-Nord-Stream-gaspipe-project
@tupakki Sorry, but I can't open the link which you've provided. I'm sure most participants in the forum were from Finland not from Vyborg. I need to see a Russian part of this forum regarding finland. So you wanted Karelia back for the pipes? and what happen in the end? We put the pipes and we have Karelia :) lol
@zheka1780 I didn't mean the forum. I ment the subject. I already told that dig up the material from russian side and from the magazine which is appearing on Karelia. People are not so rejecting as you are. If you don't believe then you don't. If our politicians would have spine. We wouldn't let the pipe go through our territorial waters. Then would come Estonian territorial waters and would you think that they would give you a permission? NO! Without a Finland you couldn't build the pipe.
@tupakki so what? in the end we're building the pipe and fuck fucking estonians. I like finish government, they are good to us. Also, Estonians would do anything what big guns of Europe will tell them to do.
@tupakki Maybe he didn't do it 'cus you've surrendered your terriotry to SU and agreed to every single term and condition including payimg 300MM to us
Finland did never surrendered. That's you should know by now. Axis countries surrondered with Germany but Finland wasn't one, even your hero Stalin had to admit that. Read the peace terms between our countries and there are no any surrendering. The paying was for that Finland "started" the war which wasn't true at all. Once again it was only Stalin's and Molotov's lies. Nothing else.
@tupakki anyway, yes you did surrender, otherwise you'd not give Karelia back to where it belongs-Russia. You've admitted to every single term and condition Soviet Union asked. Also, you've officially lost the war
Make a peace and surrender are toally different. Good you took up the lost of the war on the table. Actually there is no paper which tells that Finland lost any wars. Like finnish soldiers stayed on arms and unbeaten after WW2. Finland made a peace, not lost a war. You should read about the peace process before you say anything about it. Now you just tell your thoughts. You got finnish areas because Stalin and Molotov lied and were crooked. Read about it and you know what I mean.
@tupakki lol I know everything there is to know about so called peace treaty. Finland was humiliated and officially lost the war even wikipedia says that. So Stalin and Molotov were so crooked that they fooled whole western world? lol That what I called talant :)
@zheka1780 Wikipedia is edited by normal people, like yourself. So don't believe anything what you can find from it. Find me a official paper which says that Finland lost the war and Finland surrendered? I wish luck for you but you won't find a document like that because there is not any. I could talk about the peace process but you don't know it. Stalin and Molotov really tricked whole world and it's called fraud or unfaithfulness in agreement they wrote. It's not talent, not even close.
@tupakki sorry but I don't have an access to those archives, but Finland lost the war it's in every single internet source. So don't try to twist things around it seems you are good at it.
I am not twisting anything. It's simply the truth. Everyone can say on net what ever they wish. Finland did not lose the war. There is nothing which shows that. Finland did not never surrender. How a country lose the war when it's army is stronger than ever? After the major attack in 1944 finnish army was stronger than soviet army. Finland made peace at those times and would have made it even earlier if Stalin and Molotov wouldn't be so crooked.
@tupakki yes they did surrender by signing the treaty and first you didn't want to sign anything but after soviet army crush you in karelia you started to think about saving yourself, thus, signing to everything we demanded. After 1944 finish army was stronger? what are you smoking? Finish army was barely holding on couple of more pushes and finland would be left withough menpower. So think twice before saying something like this
@zheka1780 You can't see the difference between two subjects which are totally different. If you can', then you can think signing a peace is surrendering which it's not. Actually is funny that you say soviet army crushed finnish army. It was opposite, Stalin asked soviet troops to dig in because they couldn't continue. Finland got it's troops ready so at that moment it was stronger than ever. Read what americans said to finns that we can't continue war anymore. ;) Then you understand.
@tupakki You are most retarded Finn I've ever talked to. Actually most finns still believe that they won the war. It's okey. This is what they teach you in schools. Anyway, Finland lost continuation war and was barely holding on. Soviet Army crushed Finland in Karelia, lebarated Vyborg and other land. Finland was barely breathing. If you think Finish army was stronger why it signed all humilating treaties?
@zheka1780 Finland did not win the war but neither did Soviet Union. If you don't believe in facts then believe in what ever you wish. I couldn't care less. Everything you say is not based on anything else than on your own thoughts. As I said it reveals you don't know a thing about military history. Finland did write peace treaty because was forced by allies. Finland wanted to make peace in the end of 1943 and beginning of 1944. Stalin didn't want to. Stalin was very crooked man.
@tupakki Finland made peace because of the allies? This is most bazare statement I've ever herd. even ultra-nationalistic finns never said that. wow shows a real ignorance from ur side. But whatever, Karelia and Vyborg is in right place where it should be.
@tupakki Finland made peace because of the allies? This is most bazare statement I've ever herd. even ultra-nationalistic finns never said that. wow shows a real ignorance from ur side. But whatever, Karelia and Vyborg is in right place where it should be.
@zheka1780 You don't know anything about military history when you are speaking like that. I could tell you about soviet 32. army when he walked into trap. Soviet divisions 289. and 176. were destroyed by finns. On Karelian isthmus, Tali-Ihantala, finnish troops stopped the assault and after that moment, finnish army was stronger than soviet. Finnish troops could have push russians back but americans told that Finland can't attack anymore. Read the military history. I could use more details.
@tupakki You've lost the freaking war. Here you're talking about the battles not wars. You are braines washed and sound like an idiot if you think that Americans told Finns to stop fighting. This is just redicoulus. I'm no wondering why Vyborg was awarded a status of hero city so history can't be re-writen by such idiots as you
@zheka1780 In your head we lost the war. Battles at summer 1944 effected to the result of the war. Roosevelt told Stalin that Finland need to get off the war as soon as possible. It would have happened without any foughts but Stalin once again tried to have Finland or at least major part of it. Once again, read history and you will know details. Rewriting? You are really something. You don't nothing about the history and when you hear facts you get offended by them. Very absurd.
@zheka1780 If you try to insult me by those stupid statements. Not working. So I should read wikipedia instead of actual history books? ;) Thank you for telling me. You don't know anything about peace process between Soviet Union and Finland and how England and USA was involved. That's why its bizarre for you. It's really pointless to talk about these things with you because you don't know them at all. You are just telling things you have heard somewhere which isn't making any sense at all.
@tupakki What history books? finish? I'm just telling you things which I know and which are proven, but you so arrogant as a jack-ass to accept anything
@zheka1780 How many times I need to repeat myself before you get something? Read what I have been saying earlier. Have I been talking only about finnish history books? What I should accept now? This is not making much sense but that's not a suprise anymore.
@tupakki a suprise for you. go to 3w (dot)ntv (dot)ru/novosti/ 192185/#tn5 (type in without spaces) It's today news. It sBtw, I have an another suprise ays that five towns throghout the Russia were given status of hero cities and Vyborg is one of them. In the news it says that city was occupied by finns and germans in 1941 and was libareted in 1944 :) So you finns are occupiers of Vyborg
I know that already. So it was no suprise for me. It was very sick to give a name like that to Vyborg, a finnish city. It was very big insult. Imagine that somebody would steal a big city from you and they give a name like that to it. How you would think it? Finns and germans occupied the city? That really tells the level of your news. There was no german troops on Vyborg area (few soldiers there were like some german navy troops). How you can liberate a finnish city from finnish soldiers?
@tupakki so they said this on finish news too :) So you see NTV wasn't lying after all :) They just gave the name as a hero city to it in a memory of those who died in finish concentration camps and those who died retaking the city from nazi Germany and Finland. I can uderstand why are you not happy, but you should understand us too. Same thing I can say about your news agencies that they are full of BS
@zheka1780 Yes they have said it on finnish news. First time about a month ago. Vyborg was not a hero city of Soviet war history. It's a huge insult for finnish people. I already explained you about those finnish camps and you know what? Soviet Union did same with finnish civilians they got. Have you ever heard what happened people from Suomussalmi, Juntusranta? They were sent to soviet camps and many of them died. Also those partisan hits on finnish villages where civilians were killed.
@tupakki whatever. How would they say a month ago on this if it was announced only 2 days ago in Russia? Partisants would hit only those who help the nazis during WW2
@zheka1780 It was on Helsingin Sanomat at 26.3.2010. It makes more than a month ago. I can give you the page if you want. Partisans killed finnish civilians during the Continuation War. "In East Karelia most partisans attacked Finnish military supply and communication targets, but on the Finnish side of the border, almost two thirds of the attacks targeted civilians..." Try google and you can find more about these hits.
@tupakki First of all Eastern Karelia never belonged to Finland so patisans had all the rights to attack Finns there. They were targeting civilians who were helping finns.
@zheka1780 Read what I said. "but on the Finnish side of the border, almost two thirds of the attacks targeted civilians...". On the Finnish side of the border, it means inside of finnish borders. Yes I know partisans worked on finnish front and finns have same kind type of troop which worker behind enemy line as well but never targeted any civilians. I said that finns couldn't let russian to be free on military area because they were supporting partisans. That's one reason for camps.
"You will always will be fascist to us" Till this moment you can't explain me fascism and how you can see that in Finland and finns. I have asked it several times. No one has ever called democratic Finland a term fascist country besides russians. What it really tells about you and your country? You know what, europeans and americans have called Soviet Union as a red fascism after the WW2. You really are something. :) Liberation day of fascist finns. I couldn't laugh more.
@tupakki we don't expect the west to thing highly of us. We were in cold war with them this is why they have such a stupid mentality regarding russia (including you) We don't give a shit what some redneck called us red fascist or something else. Franklly I've never herd of this term. Yes, Vyborg has this day and it's official. You can laugh as much as you want but this won't change a thing. lol
If you have not heard the term it doesn't mean its not there. Write it on google and soon you have seen it more than eneough. Yes I have noticed that you don't care what people think about you and your country but maybe you should. Also write "Fascism in Russia" on google and see who should be worried about fascism. ;) Yes I do laugh for liberation of Vyborg. It's nothing more than a sick joke. I can't understand how you can't see it.
@tupakki yes we do have skinheads like everywhere else including your Finland. Anyway, soon we'll 9th of may celebrations including in Vyborg. Come on over and you'll see how we celebrete a liberations of it. It's better to see once then to hear about it
Yes I know why Stalin shot Polish officers because he was going to do the same with finnish officers and civil guards. He also said: "God made a mistake when he put finns on that land but I can fix God's error". There is also many other sick statements he said about finns. Ok if I am brainwashed, just tell me how it was justified to shoot tens of thousands of polish people? I can't wait to hear how twisted reply I will get from you. I bet you also say that you liberated baltic states. Right?
@tupakki OMG! I think they zombie you in your school. When did Stalin say something like this about Finns. I want to see proves. Just don't give the bull shit from Finland on that. Give me some neutrual sources. According to recent archives, which for most part are open now, Stalin shot those officers (not soldiers or civilians) as an act of revenge for 1920s Soviet-Polish war, when thousands Soviet POW died in Polish camps. If you don't believe it's your problem. Even Poles agree with this
Stalin said it before the Winter War. It's from history book and I will try to find the orginal source for this statement. Bull shit from Finland? Sure. I want to tell you something, Finland isn't a Russia where lies are next truth. Oh it was just a revenge to kill those polish officers and other polish people. Sorry that I was so harsh. Then it's right to kill any people as a revenge. So those kills of polish intelligentsia was also same revenge? 1919-21 russian prisoners died, I agree.
@tupakki I really don't know why Stalin decisded to kill polish itelegnciya, maybe same reason he killed Russian intelegnciya, but many say because of that polish intelegenciya took a part in Soviet Polish war of the 20sIf you still don't know there are 10'000 Soviet citizens also were shot in Katyn theyr graves next to Polish ones. No revenge is not good, but Stalin was commander at that war with Poland so yes, he took it very personal.
It was just an awful crime, a war crime. Yes I know Stalin killed polish intelligentsia for same reason he killed russian and other. That's true. That happening need to be remember in history. Not forgetting as its happening now. There is also other soviet crimes which need to be remembered as nazi crimes. Soviet Union did awful things for many people, including finns and karelian. Those crimes need to be judged by Russia and it's leaders.
@tupakki where is it happening now? just don't give me this horse shit on Putin and Medvedev, ok? I won't buy it anyway. Judge by Russia? and who's going to be on trial then? dead stalin or others? It's history now. Karelia is not coming back to you and Estonians are not going to be paid as they ask.
I don't give a horse ass what you buy and what you won't. If Russia would be like European country, it would admit all of those crimes they have done. Germany has done that so long time ago, they admit crimes of nazi-Germany. Like people are saying, Russia isn't even close as European countries. I need to agree with it. Future will show the destiny of Karelia. It's not mine and whats more important, not your call. Many estonians died for example in Siberia and SU occupied their country.
@tupakki yet you europeans are havily depend on Russia, so who gives a shit about Russia being in EU. I personally don't want to. Fuck Estonia. Them nazis deserved everything. They can go to hell.
And these Soviets were the same ones who sat in judgement at Nuremberg and ranted about German 'crimes' of waging aggressive war and war crimes. These were the same Soviets whose leader Americans called 'Uncle Joe' or 'Good Ole Joe'
and whom they allowed to swallow and enslave half of Europe.
mawel1955 11 months ago 9
Carelia is Finnish!
Anton77bln 1 year ago 7
This has been flagged as spam show
Go and walk on Vyborg and watch those houses, read the history of the city, read about those architects who have designed those houses. For example: Alvar Aalto, Aarne Sarvela, Ragnar Amadeus Ypyä, Erkki Huttunen etc.
"if you don't know what fascist means pls look it up in wikipedia and stop pretending you are a smart one" I know well what fascist means but it seems you don't know a thing. If you know wikipedia, go there and read about it. You certainly need that information.
tupakki 1 year ago
Great but felt strange - kummalta tuntui..
hopsista321 2 years ago
My grandfather told me that he was in Viipuri when the russians bombed it. He was evacuating civilians together with the finnish-swedish volunteers. After a while the soldiers just freaked out and started running away from the bombers or whatever. And my grandfather, with he's bare eyes saw how they ran straight into the blasts and explosions. I'm just glad he didn't start running and just took cover.
laskusiiveke 2 years ago
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You are angry-it means you are not wrong. (С)
Finnish soldiers averted part of Soviet troops and helped to German Fascists to blocade Leningrad. Embassy of Great Britain in Helsinki even sent protests to Mannerheim due to continued Finnish attacks at Ladoga. Learn your own history by documents not by propaganda.
Satarti 2 years ago
You are actually a bit wrong here, you are using fragments of the story and make a truth of your own. It was actually requested by stalin that the western allies should declare war and wage war against Finland. The western part of the alliance actually understood that Finland fought for their freedom, so they limited themselves to protest. Remember the words of Churchill "Only Finland - superb, nay, sublime in the jaws of peril - Finland shows what free men can do."
Hrafn89 2 years ago 4
The quote of Churchill was made during the winter war, but the understanding of Finlands critical situation having Russia as its neighbour prevented more actions from the rest. Nobody wanted Russia in Finland, except Russia. From a western perspective the allegiance with Russia as an ally was a deal with the devil to fight another devil. Finland was 'only' brother in arms with Germany and this due that neither France nor Britain could assist Finland with troops due to geographic location@1st war
Hrafn89 2 years ago 3
Here is another quote from him, stating that he would support the devil vs Hitler....
If Hitler invaded Hell, I would make at least a favorable reference to the Devil in House of Commons.
Winston Churchill
Hrafn89 2 years ago
You are like the other idiot russians... I know what information they gave and give in your schools and the propoganda on TV. Russia will never bee friends to Finland and other people who sufferd from you thro the ages.
HistCoN 2 years ago
@HistCoN why we should be friends with Finland? You fuckers hate us so for us you will always be facist Finland
zheka1780 2 years ago
Facist Finland? You really are something. Finland has never been facist. I guess I have been talking this with you before and you still keep spreading this nonsense. Finland was democratic country during WW2 if you didn't know that less. You were far away from democratic country and it seems you are now as well. So who should call who facists? It's not you or any of russians. You should think how educated you look when you call finns facists. Incredible.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki Yes, fascist. For us you were fascist. Do you know how liberation day in Vyborg called? It's liberation of Vyborg from Fascist Finland. It's an official holiday. So yes, you were fascist and stilla are.
zheka1780 1 year ago
Please define me fascist and so called fascist Finland. Can you do that for me? Still are? This is very funny. Are you a comedian? There is not such thing as liberation day of Vyborg. The day is a stealing day of Vyborg from legal owners. That's the right term. I can't understand how somebody can be so stupid and call that liberation. It's pure stupidity thats why I use term stupid. Now the city needs liberation, not before. If you celebrate a crime, there is much wrong in your system.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki You've just answered your own question. just read what you wrote. Yes there is such a day in Russia and this day is official!!!! Get it please! Also Finland sign all border treaties with Russia so say bye-bye to Karelia, which should always stay within Russia anyway as Finland was part of Russian Empire. So to keep it short, 1)Karelia is Russia and stay as such forever, 2)Vyborg has a liberation day.
zheka1780 1 year ago
I answered to my questions? Stop that joking, I can't take it much more. Admit that you can't even define terms that you are using. Seen that before from russian mouth. I know its official and what it tells of your country? That's the different subject. Finland did sign Paris treaty because it was forced. Even allied wouldn't want to give those areas to Russia but Stalin was crooked and tricked Finland and allies like with Poland.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki I'm not joking around with you. I'm preatty serious about this. Look at the internet here, look at your replies to me. They are all stink with finish nationalism and schovenism. You Finn's are were and always will be faschists. If you were fooled by Stalin then it's your problem. Stalin fooled a lot of people and nations. btw Stalin was not Russian. What with Poland? Poland was devided between Germany and Soviet Union there was not any crookage behind that
zheka1780 1 year ago
Then you are telling jokes seriously. Don't expect me to take you seriously when you speak in that way. Facist and other hilarious stories. My replies stink with finnish nationalism and chauvinism? Here we go again. I could say something about your behaving but I won't bother. :) I know Stalin wasn't russian but almost all of his closest men were. So there is no point to say that. Read the Churchill's memories, part Russia and Poland - The Soviet Promise, then you know what I mean.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki who is Churchill? Is Churchill a God or something? He could write whatever was best to suite him. Stalin wrote a lots of stories too, does it mean they are true? lol Anyway, Stalin had only one man near him all the time - Lavrentiy Beria (who's also a georgian) let's see who else? There was Mikoyan, who's Armenian, there was Rokossovski, who was Polish, there was Molotov, who was a jew? Pls name who else you think might be responsible for all evil besides Stalin?
zheka1780 1 year ago
At conference of Yalta, Roosevelt, Stalin and Churchill made a statement that Poland will be an independent country after WW2 because Poland was a reason why WW2 started at first place. Stalin tried to tell that Poland need to be under Soviet Union in safety reasons. Roosevelt and Churchill didn't agree so Stalin promised to respect polish independence. After when red army entered to polish soil, Stalin started to tell stories that polish troops attacked against russian soldiers. Just lies.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki lol here you go. go to tell this funny polish story to somebody in Finland not to me :) Red Army moved to Poland in 1943-44 on the way to Berlin. Now if you are talking about Katyn that's a different story, which leads back to 1940.. So don't come with this bull shit of yours about Soviet Union occupying Poland etc
zheka1780 1 year ago
Watch what I said. Don't you know at all what for Yalta conference were? Don't try to mix something that I haven't never said. Write Yalta conference on google and read about it. This is from wikipedia: "The Western Powers soon realized that Stalin would not honor his free elections promise regarding Poland." Katyn is a different stroy, I agree. Soviet Union occupied Poland and I can't understand how somebody can be so ignorant and say something else. How you can say something different?
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki I only read Russian virsion of Wikipedia, sorry and I didn't find this bull shit that you're talking about. When did Soviet Union occupied Poland? Please enlight me on that
zheka1780 1 year ago
These polish people fought against Germany in uprising. So what happened then? Stalin betrayed allies and Poland.
I agree that Stalin had many men from Ukraine, Poland, Georgia, you name it. So what difference it makes if Molotov was a jew? Many of those people who were on Russian revolution were jews. There is Lenin who made so awful crimes in Russia and he was russian. I also want to pick Stalin's Stavka, more than half of its members were russians. What Stavka did with Stalin?
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki what da hell do they teach you in Finland? I can't believe you are so brainwashed, omg! Stalin betrayed allies, which was Poland? wtf? Poland was never an allie of Russia, plus you probobably never herd of Russian-Polish wars, the recent one was in 1920's Now if you're talking about 1944 soviet offence and Polish uprising at same time, that's a different storry, but I can't tell what are you talking about so I'm guessing
zheka1780 1 year ago
Are you high or something? Read what I said. Not too hard to read few lines of text. Don't try to mix something which is not relevant for the content. I said uprising troops because Stalin said himself that those same polish people attacked against red army in Poland as they did with german troops earlier. What is so hard to understand?
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki I still don't get it. What troops uprised against Soviet? Was it during WWII? Looks to me you are on crack
zheka1780 1 year ago
You wanted names so I will give you names: Georgy Zhukov, Semyon Budyonny, Nikolai Gerasimovich Kuznetsov, Boris Shaposhnikov, Kirill Meretskov, Nikolai Vatutin, Andrei Ždanov, Georgy Malenkov, Lev Mekhlis, Vasili Blokhin. The last name of Blokhin was the chief executioner of the Stalinist NKVD, for example Khatyn massacre is his work sample. You can't say that russians haven't done anything during Stalin's bloody era, they have. I didn't even pick Lenin's era which was very bloody as well.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki as I said you're brainwashed to the point that everybody who's born in the Soviet Union is automatically get labeled as a davil. Georgy Zhukov is a brilliant Russian commander who defeated Germany in WWII. He has nothing to do with Finland or any other bull shit you're trying to get him to. Most of the ppl in your list are not Russian, even your Blokhin was a Ukrainian. What do you know about Katyn?
zheka1780 1 year ago
Not true at all. There is people in Russia who know how things went. All russian people are not like you who say that everything which isn't soviet or russian propaganda are lies from western countries. That's very funny. Actually Zhukov was a chief of staff of the Soviet army during the Winter War and he was a member of Stalin's Stavka who made only few innocent plans to invade independent countries. Yes he was a saint. Every people I said were russian citizen. Blokhin also russian.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki What da fuck is stavka has to do anything? Do you know what savka means in Russian? So what he was cheif of stuff. If he was in charge of winter war 1939 operation he would plan it very carefully and would have much different approuche so that you'd speak Russian to me now. Those people were Soviet citizens first of all and Blokhin was a Ukrainian.
zheka1780 1 year ago
Read operation plans of red army and you know what stavka means and it's actions. What it has to do with Winter War and with other wars. Stavka means military headquarters, same as german Oberkommando der Wehrmacht. What happened for example german field marshal Keitel who was a part of german military headquarters? He wasn't a nazi crimainal. Same with your Stavka. It was same as german and did awful things. So those russian men are not innocent for anything.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki loool, a finn is going to tell me what is what in Russian :))) bravo! Stavka litterly means " a bet in casino etc" but back then it mean, millitary headquarters in Russain is "Gen./General'niy Shtab" or General Staff. I hope we're clear on that now.
zheka1780 1 year ago
Did I want to literally tell what it means? Did I literally translated german headquarters? No I did not. I explained what it means. Don't stick on things which has nothing to do with the subject.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki wft? why are you twisting everything around dude? stavka is stavka and nothing evil about that word
zheka1780 1 year ago
Twisting? There is nothing evil on the word itself. The evil part is when we watch who were in Stavka and what actions they did. That's what I ment. So what twisting is with that? You can say that they didn't anything bad that they all were heroes? Their every actions were made by the book?
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki and what your stavka was doing? killing soviet civilians in the concentration camps in Karelia.
zheka1780 1 year ago
They attacked against Finland, made plan how to occupy baltic countries, operation in Poland with nazi-Germany. Those for example. All of those were imperialistic actions and broke so many international laws. Like with Finland it broke a non-aggression pact between our countries and what's the most important, Tarto peace pact. Remember terror bombings against finnish civilians in Winter War. There is much that the highter military staff were responsible. Politicians as well as in Germany.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki for everything blame your Georgian friends Stalin and Beria, not Russian people. Plus nothing happens without a reason. Finland must fuck something up to piss Soviet Union off.
zheka1780 1 year ago
Yes you are right about one thing here. I don't blame normal russian people. Many of them didn't want any kind of war. They had problems enough for themselves without war. Like during the Winter War a lot of soviet people were starving, long lines of people waited food on streets. Nothing happens without a reason? Finland must fuck something up to piss Soviet Union off? So you don't know a thing if you say things like that. What about Molotov-Ribbentrop pact? Soviet Union wanted Finland.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki oh don't give me this non sence about Molotvo-Ribbentrop shit. You finns always complain about everything. In fact I have nothing to discuss with you any more, 'cus you won't prove me wrong and I will not convince you neither
zheka1780 1 year ago
Sure, you want to believe in lies. Suit yourself. Molotov-Ribbentrop isn't a shit at all but you want to believe so because russians were walking and holding hands with nazies. That's not suiting your ideology. You just alone saved the world from nazis. Sure and we live in wonderland.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki yes, we the one who saved the world and defeated Germany and its allies (incl. Finland) in WW II . That's why we have a 9th of May on a red square and everywhere else including Karelia and Vyborg, That's why Vyborg has a libaration day from Faschist Finland.
zheka1780 1 year ago
Yes and I bet you believe in Santa or father frost Still you couldn't explain your favourite word faschist. Is it that hard? You know that world would have needed saving from communism as well. You did not save world by slaving their people, killing them and occupying their countries. You did same that nazi-Germany, again. I bet that is russian way of saving. ;) You don't save anything by bringing larger bad. I bet those millions victims agree and their relatives too.
tupakki 1 year ago
We did not have a such thing as Stavka. There has not been conentration camps in Karelia. Their names were transfer camps. The idea of those camps were not to kill anybody. Just to eliminate spys and help for soviet army. People died because there was not enough food and health care wasn't good enough. Those were basically same kind of camps that soviets did finnish civilians during the Winter War, only one difference, russied killed finns with too hard work.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki you can call them transfer camps but they were just a s bad as concentration camps... a lot of civilians died in those death camps build and orcestrated by finland. stop painting russia in the dark colors. we are great people and if we killed any finish civilians they've must fully deserved that
zheka1780 1 year ago
You don't know anything about those finnish camps so stop talking like you would. It was impossible to let so much russian people to walk freely on war zone. They could have made a great damage for finnish army. There were already reconnaisance parachutist and imagine their tasks on so much people. Those finnish civilians not deserved to be killed in russian terror bombing or by work. As russians didn't deserve to die in sicknesses in finnish camps. You are very sick if you say they deserved.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki looks like you don't know a shit about what your faschist country did in those camps. You country killed those innocent civilians...
zheka1780 1 year ago
Actually I do. I have been reading about russian prison camps here in Finland, also in those camps in Karelia and about those camps that germans had in Lapland. I know very well what I am talking about here. I bet you haven't read anything. You have heard something and you are spreading it as a fact. Those I have seen much from your mouth. Believe what ever you wish. I really coundn't care less. This is nothing more than waste of time.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki The problem is that you reading you so called truthful finish bull shit books and I read real sources, documentaries, tales of survivals from those camps. Exactly it is a wast of time even talking to you on this
zheka1780 1 year ago
You don't even know what I am reading but still you are telling them bullshit. You are really funny person. I can say :). I have been reading books from russian writers. I bet you are telling me that translators have translated them wrong. Right? I am sure you do. I have been reading british, german, american. All kind of books. So all of them are just bullshit. You must be very smart person because you can call all of them liars. :) You are an expert in your alrenative history. Well done. :)
tupakki 1 year ago
Watch this video? Is this just finnish propaganda? There is lost of videos in youtube for example and they are telling same as I am. They are from many countries, BBC, Military history channel etc. Are they all nothing but lies? Is that what you are trying to tell me. Do you even know how paranoiac that sounds? I can answer to that question. Very.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki look, even though there is a saying about freedom of speech in the west it is not true. BBC, CNN, FOX and others are typically anti-Russian media and always been. The only western media I trust to is EuroNews. So you've failed again in convincing me
zheka1780 1 year ago
Sure that they are telling nothing else than lies about Russia. Very paranoid way of thinking. Have you ever thought that maybe you see it anti-Russian because you don't want to believe in news that don't see Russia in good light? Have you ever thought so? Like if there is bad news about Finland, I don't think they are anti-Finnish because the new is not what I like. It's just liberty of speech that even bad news can be told.
tupakki 1 year ago
Just once tell me what made Finland fascist in WW2 or nowadays? Tell me what makes me fascist? Don't answer to anything else than this and explain. This is actually so funny and I can't understand why you can't see it by yourself. Read the definition of fascism and compare that to Finland and Russia (also Soviet Union) You might be suprised. ;)
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki you've been Germany's allies, used swastica (eventhough it wasn't originated in Germany) your basic rules and concept of Finland including your attitude and many other finns here on youtube and in general. Many Finns were part of SS during the WW2 etc. Once again, this is why we have lebaration day in Vyborg from fascist Finns.!!!! You will always will be fascist to us
zheka1780 1 year ago
We used swastika even before nazi-Germany and their content it's totally different. Why you even took this up? We have not been Germany's ally. We have been brothers in arms. It's a big difference. Like finnish soldiers were not under germans headquarters like for example romanians were. You were real ally from nazi-Germany and occupied Poland together, had marches together. Did you forget that? Read the agreement of those finnish ss-soldiers ;). You say things that you don't know better.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki pls tell me a differents between ally and brothers in arms? what a fucking joke you have no logic. What agreement of ss soldiers? ss were cold blooded killers and if finland was part of it you just nazi as Germany was
zheka1780 1 year ago
When you for example compare Finland to Romania. Romania has same goals as Germany did and they fought under germans. For example in Crimea romanian divisions fought under germans. Romanian leader Antonescu gave Hitler free hands to use romanian soldiers. Finland did not. Also one big difference is that Finland did not sign so called Axis pact which is so called Tripartite pact. Try google and watch which countries signed it, you can't find Finland from those countries. Just find out. ;)
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki it doesn't matter what Finland signed on papers. Romanians did not build the concenration camps and didn't tourture ppl with hunger and sickness. Finland on the other hand did all these and also participated in blockaede of Leningrad, which was one of the bloodiest blockades in the history of WW2. I'm suprised Stalin didn't drop and A-Bomb on you for that.
zheka1780 1 year ago
I really wouldn't want to speak with a person who don't know anything about these things. You also added the blockade of Leningrad. The biggest myth of russian history books. You should know already that Finland had nothing to do with that. Read some history books. Read about those soviet troops who were against Finland on that front. Not too hard to find out the truth. Find also that from where millions of people saved themselves. Then stop being absurd and naive.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki I can say the oposite about you. It's a big myth of finish history books that Finland had nothing to do with Leningrad.
zheka1780 1 year ago
Not just finnish. International way of thinking. It's just some inner circle who say like you are saying. There is international historians in World who say as I am saying. I have already said one russian historian here and there is more, also german and at least british and french. I haven't noticed american material but I am sure there is. So it's not only finnish myth, not even close. It would be time to update your knowledge.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki don't forget about west and east confrontation. I can say that Cuban, Venezuelian, Vietnamees, Chinees, Serbian and other Russia's allies would disagree with you and with those who you call international historians. So shut up about this subject. You are not proving me wrong
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 I have proved you are wrong many times but you don't want to believe me. What ever I say to you decide to believe opposite. What was the first big confrontation between Allies and Soviet Union? It was Poland when Stalin didn't keep his promises. Then confrontations went from one to one. You haven't even read about those historian but still you are ready to judge them. I also ment some russian historian I am familiar of.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki can you specifially point me out where exactly you've proved me wrong?
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 Just read our conversation and you can find out when I have tried to explain something but you have believed in your thoughts and assumptions.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki you only tried to spray you your bull shit propoganda the same junk they teach you in schools. If finns did not have an idea of "greater finland" nobody would take karelia from you. When you get greedy you lose everything. I hope this was a well tought lesson to Finland.
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 And this couldn't make less sense. Well I wouldn't even want to comment nonsense like this. It seems you don't nothing about the Winter War and time before and after that either. Read the Yuri Kilin's material as I told you that you don't need to say nonsense like this. Then you will know something about Stalin's plans for example and then we can continue this subject. Then lets see who was greedy and who did what. Now you don't know the backgrounds or anything.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki Go read some books too. Seems to me you know nothing about the conflict and greater Finland plans. It's a waste of time even talking to you.
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 Please tell me some good books. I am fan of reading. How about a book called "Thoughts for operations: finnish army's operation planning in Continuation War". I have read it already so I know Finland's plans in Continuation War. Don't even try to teach me something that you don't know nothing. Maybe the old man on the street have told you some rumours. That's how it looks. Yeah I agree that it really is nothing but waste of time to talk with you. :) You don't know nothing.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki you can read all this bs which your country publish to bring the morale of depressing country, but I only trust to documentary material and to our veterans who fougth there. So as again, Karelia is now where it should be and Vyborg is a hero city of WWII, The city was lebarated from finish nazi army.
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 This is really getting boring. Once again you are telling me that finnish companies only publish books which are anti-Russian or something which can't be trust. You can't see how absurd your statements are? No one is believing nonsense like that and it's actually quite funny but sad at the same time because somebody is telling those seriously. Once again you are trying to appeal my personal feelings. Quite childish. Finnish nazy army? Are you that desperate already?
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki I would never take finish source as as "truth" source. I'm not desparate. Look in the beginning of our conversation.
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 And that tells everything about you and your attitude. I wouldn't need to add more on that. I have used russian historians as a source even here because I know they have wrote awesome books from russian side but once again, that's not the "right" truth for you. Still you are saying every finnish books are bad and full of lies. Very funny, once again.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki Whatever, I'm reading some of the stuff which Yuri Kilin wrote in his books. His opinion on that war is not much differ from oficial publications. Also in one of his book Yuri Kilin accuses Ari Raunio of fabricating some of the data and other facts.
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 That's good. What book you are reading at the moment? I can agree that there is statements on books of finnish writers that I don't agree either. I don't know that fabrications you are talking about there but it's happening everywhere because some people see things differently and that's why they write differently. The best is to read same subject from many writers. It giving best way to see the truth.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki why are you twistin everythin around again? You are as crooked as Stalin. But tomorrow is a Victory Day in Russia. So I'll be easy on you today and will be celebrating tomorrow. BTW, I think you need to join vodka tourism and come to St.Petersburg to get drunk as your fellow finns usually do :))))
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 I am not twisting anything. I am just saying how things are. You are comparing me to the World's most evil man? Way to go. You have right to celebrate that you won the Germany but celebrating the theft of Vyborg for example isn't the right thing. It's actually very wrong. I don't really care if some finns go in Russia and get themselves wasted, it's their business. Still thank you for your invite.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki Nothing wrong with that. In my opinion this is a price Finland should have paid us for its betrayal. Vyborg was celebrating victory day just as every other city in the former soviet union. As more than 200 mil former soviet citizens they see nothing wrong with that
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 What are you talking about? Betrayal? You know there would have been any wars if Soviet Union would have attacked against Finland and trying to occupy finnish land. After the Winter War Soviet Union threaten Finland and took areas which they had no right on Moscow treaty like Enso's industrial area. Between Winter and Continuation War was called the time of danger in Finland. You know why? Soviet Union was real threat. SU also shot down finnish airplane Kaleva on peace time. Etc.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki Finland let Nazi troops come through and also participated in blockaded of Leningrad. I call it betrayal. Also, if Finland wouldn't think about "greater finland" no war would happen
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 If you haven't heard. Sweden signed same kind of papers than Finland did and let german troops to go through Sweden. In that logic you are telling me why you didn't declared war against Sweden? Finland didn't participare on a blocked of Leningrad. I can't understand how so many russian are believing so. Read about that front and you understand. There was so little russian soldiers against Finland on that front that Finland could have broken russian defence line.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki I call it betrayal. This is why stalin took Karelia from you to secure Leningrad. You need to visit St.Peterburg attend millitary museums and see everything for yourself what your fellow countrymen did in Leningrad.
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 Finland stopped its attack on line which was easy to defend and were karelian land. Finland tried to get those Karelian areas in Tarto peace treaty but wasn't succeed and many finns said that Finland betrayed karelian brothers. Hows Karelia now and how it would have been with Finland? Karelians wanted to be a part of Finland because Karelia were russianized and I can prove this for you. How great-Finland started these wars?
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki oh yean? What about eastern karelia and finish attacks there? eastern karelia never belonged to finland. If Karelia was russionize why would they want to join finland? doesn't make sence. yes, you've betrayed your fellow finns in karelia when you signed that treat. should have fight to the end but then there won't be any finns left :)
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 Have you even called finnish volunteers? They were finnish volunteers who participated on those trips. Not finnish army. Watch the number of those soldiers, there was not so many finnish soldiers. The russification was running on those times and that's why they wanted to be a part of Finland. They knew how sad their future will be. Was they wrong? No they weren't. Yes Finland had to betray those karelians, I agree. Finland has no choice. You are thinking very weirdly. I can say.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki I don't care if they were valunteers or regular soldiers. Those valonteers had their finish uniform on. They are not sad, who told you those Karelians would be sad? What's so weird about my thinking? cus it's different from yours?
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 I can't understand how you can be happy by that fact that your ancestors have destroyed something very important for karelians and finns. I really would be ashamed if I would be living on land that is not even mine. In the saddest case the former owners are on grave because of Stalin and Soviet Union. I can't understand how you can be proud of this kind of crimes. I don't even think it's very healthy to think in that wat. You have some kind of bigger state syndrome.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki I think you the one who need medication. What for you is crime for me is dirty politics. And I can't understand why you want Karelia when only 26% of Finns support this idea. I'm glad majority of Finns are wise enough to not spoil the relations with Russia
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 Once again you haven't payed attention with Finland. At 2000 it was 20%, 2005 it was 36%, 2008 it was 38%, last year 41% want the Karelia back. 72% of finns want that returning negotiations should start with Russia. Want to see facts? Finnish people want to open conversation with Russia, our politicians don't want it. It has a big difference.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki sorry to break your heart but Karelia isn't coming back to Finland no matter how many Finns want it back. 41% is still not a majority. I think we need to create a new defensive policy and place short distance ballistic missiles in Karelia to cool off your fascist plans
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 It's not your call to make. You can see the trend of that poll. It's going higher and higher for every year and it's close to majority. Now again you started to act like a little kid. I don't want to waste more time to talking when you are so absurd. Your way of thining is pretty twisted but this is a free World so do so.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki just don't shoot yourself
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 Like what this is supposed to mean?
tupakki 1 year ago
@zheka1780 If i do need medication then there is nothing which could help you ;). It doesn't matter will you use it crime or dirty politics. Outcome is still the same. It's a huge unjustice against Finland. Still I can't understand how it's so hard to see this. Why it need to spoil relations with Russia?
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki because it's pure ignorant from your side. You want to return Karelia without even asking our citizens who're leaving there
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 If you would have asked I would have told you. The peace treaty of Tarto said that russians can decide on what side on the border they want to live. We are not hearthless people and want to force people from their homes. It wouldn't be same that Soviet Union did to finnish people. I would happily take more russians working in Finland than those immigrants than our goverment is shipping. I am sure handing those areas back to Finland those areas would be glowing once again.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki and I can assure you in vast mojority if not 100% of those Russians would never accept being under Finland. Then what will you do? You really showing your true nationalistic face by comparing russians to the low class islamist/negro enimals which ur government brings to Finland. Actually it's fine with me when Finland will become another France or Germany with full of turks and other islmaists
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 Then the majority could move to Russia if being a part of the Finland wouldn't be what they are expecting. No one is forcing anybody and there is much land in Russia they could live at. Many of this population which has populated for example Karelia are from Belarus etc. and many people are working for goverment so they would go anyway. If you don't understand what I ment by those immigrants then don't even try to say something as stupid as you said. I don't even want to reply that.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki woow! what a nice plan you just put. I guess all you have to do is go to your government and talk to them about it I'm sure they will listen to you with much attention. You will fail. Nobody will move out the place they were born nobody would want to learn your ugly language and inhabit your twisted culture. so as I said shove your ignorance up in your ass and shut up about Karelia return
zheka1780 1 year ago
@tupakki it's trully shows your nationalistic and ignorant face when you compared our people to low class immigrants which your gov't imports to Finland, which are ppl from africa and arab countries. Actually I don't mind to see Finland being in the same situation as France, That would be nice
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 You are saying something like that to me? I suggest that self-examination would be the right thing for you. You are eager to call somebody with terms and not thinking how well those would suit on you. You know Finland is not even close to France. I really don't want to waste more time with you. Talking with a dog would be more educated. You really can't have a proper conversation with facts or not even close. You are appealing to feelings which tells the level of your attitude.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki to many words from you and much less sence! By France I mean that I don't mind to see Finland being occupied by ppl from middle east and africa :) That would really blend your population and your nationalism :)
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 If there is nothing wrong with you. Then you don't Winter and Continuation War good enough. Soviet Union started both wars against Finland and not forgetting that Stalin started whole WW2 with Hitler. Next if you try to tell me that Finland started the Continuation War. Read who asked to bomb finnish targets like airfields and finnish navy and when this happened? Then compare that day to day when Finland started the war. What you can see? If that's not wrong to you. What is?
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki Having Vyborg in Russia is not wrong for me. Finland was part of Russian Empire in the first place so you've lost your land during the war. Time to get over it and start thinking about future.
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 You know that part of Karelia Soviet Union stole from Finland is called an old Finland. Write it on google and you will see. Vyborg has never been russian city even it has been a part of Russia. Finland was a Grand Duchy of Finland which means Finland was an autonomic area which had own borders for example. Still I can't understand why we should forget an old Finland. We are thinking about the future and hoping that those areas will be a part of Finland once again.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki once again I repeat stop saying that we stoled it from you. You gave it away, you've lost the war and lost your land. Look the meaning of the word "stealing". The only possible way to have these lands as part of Finland is for Finland again bacome part of Russian Empire on the same terms as it was during Tsarist Russia. I will have no problem about that. Otherwise you can forget about Karelia
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 What other term you would use? Do you think finns happily gave those land to Soviet Union and smiled? They were forced. If a man on street comes on you and take your money by forcing you with a gun. You are just happy and say. He deserve them because I gave them. You do so? Becaming a part of Russia? Now I am sure you are having in ideology that a bigger country can do what ever day wish. It was same during the WW2. Seems at least you haven't changed a bit but you should.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki sorry but you fought the war and you lost it including your land. If Finland was part of Soviet Union and after 1991 it would have its independance, thus, you'd have you Karelia. But instead you want to fight against us with nazi germany. So you've lost your land and it's ours now. say good bye to it.
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 We fought wars that we forced by Soviet Union. If Finland would be a part of Soviet Union after WW2, whole country would much different. Just watching eastern European countries, like baltic states. I have been talking about history so much with you but still you are telling nonsense for me. I am really just wasting my time with you. Soviet Union forced Finland to have protection from Germany. Watch your own part of history and don't be arrogant.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki you're the one who is arrogant and ignorant and delusional about wanting Karelia back. My advise to you go to Vyborg and start telling ppl that you want Karelia back :))) I may just see you sick face on the news then with a title "finish nationalist has been killed in Vyborg for spreading separatism" :)
zheka1780 1 year ago
You can call all of those more than two million finns in the same term. Actually when finnish businessmen said a proposal that Finland give a permission for russian gaspipe going through finnish territorial waters if Finland get Karelia back. Many people in Vyborg liked the idea as it was in newspapers. You can find that from russian pages where they were writting about it. (h/ttp)(:)//engforum(.)pravda(.)ru/showthread(.)php?259929-Finnish-businessmen-to-stop-Nord-Stream-gaspipe-project
tupakki 1 year ago
@zheka1780 And don't read the forum. I just want to show the subject.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki Sorry, but I can't open the link which you've provided. I'm sure most participants in the forum were from Finland not from Vyborg. I need to see a Russian part of this forum regarding finland. So you wanted Karelia back for the pipes? and what happen in the end? We put the pipes and we have Karelia :) lol
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 I didn't mean the forum. I ment the subject. I already told that dig up the material from russian side and from the magazine which is appearing on Karelia. People are not so rejecting as you are. If you don't believe then you don't. If our politicians would have spine. We wouldn't let the pipe go through our territorial waters. Then would come Estonian territorial waters and would you think that they would give you a permission? NO! Without a Finland you couldn't build the pipe.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki so what? in the end we're building the pipe and fuck fucking estonians. I like finish government, they are good to us. Also, Estonians would do anything what big guns of Europe will tell them to do.
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 Talking nonsense with you is as thrilling as watching paint dry. This is not taking us nowhere so we can stop this waste of time.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki Maybe he didn't do it 'cus you've surrendered your terriotry to SU and agreed to every single term and condition including payimg 300MM to us
zheka1780 1 year ago
Finland did never surrendered. That's you should know by now. Axis countries surrondered with Germany but Finland wasn't one, even your hero Stalin had to admit that. Read the peace terms between our countries and there are no any surrendering. The paying was for that Finland "started" the war which wasn't true at all. Once again it was only Stalin's and Molotov's lies. Nothing else.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki anyway, yes you did surrender, otherwise you'd not give Karelia back to where it belongs-Russia. You've admitted to every single term and condition Soviet Union asked. Also, you've officially lost the war
zheka1780 1 year ago
Make a peace and surrender are toally different. Good you took up the lost of the war on the table. Actually there is no paper which tells that Finland lost any wars. Like finnish soldiers stayed on arms and unbeaten after WW2. Finland made a peace, not lost a war. You should read about the peace process before you say anything about it. Now you just tell your thoughts. You got finnish areas because Stalin and Molotov lied and were crooked. Read about it and you know what I mean.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki lol I know everything there is to know about so called peace treaty. Finland was humiliated and officially lost the war even wikipedia says that. So Stalin and Molotov were so crooked that they fooled whole western world? lol That what I called talant :)
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 Wikipedia is edited by normal people, like yourself. So don't believe anything what you can find from it. Find me a official paper which says that Finland lost the war and Finland surrendered? I wish luck for you but you won't find a document like that because there is not any. I could talk about the peace process but you don't know it. Stalin and Molotov really tricked whole world and it's called fraud or unfaithfulness in agreement they wrote. It's not talent, not even close.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki sorry but I don't have an access to those archives, but Finland lost the war it's in every single internet source. So don't try to twist things around it seems you are good at it.
zheka1780 1 year ago
I am not twisting anything. It's simply the truth. Everyone can say on net what ever they wish. Finland did not lose the war. There is nothing which shows that. Finland did not never surrender. How a country lose the war when it's army is stronger than ever? After the major attack in 1944 finnish army was stronger than soviet army. Finland made peace at those times and would have made it even earlier if Stalin and Molotov wouldn't be so crooked.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki yes they did surrender by signing the treaty and first you didn't want to sign anything but after soviet army crush you in karelia you started to think about saving yourself, thus, signing to everything we demanded. After 1944 finish army was stronger? what are you smoking? Finish army was barely holding on couple of more pushes and finland would be left withough menpower. So think twice before saying something like this
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 You can't see the difference between two subjects which are totally different. If you can', then you can think signing a peace is surrendering which it's not. Actually is funny that you say soviet army crushed finnish army. It was opposite, Stalin asked soviet troops to dig in because they couldn't continue. Finland got it's troops ready so at that moment it was stronger than ever. Read what americans said to finns that we can't continue war anymore. ;) Then you understand.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki You are most retarded Finn I've ever talked to. Actually most finns still believe that they won the war. It's okey. This is what they teach you in schools. Anyway, Finland lost continuation war and was barely holding on. Soviet Army crushed Finland in Karelia, lebarated Vyborg and other land. Finland was barely breathing. If you think Finish army was stronger why it signed all humilating treaties?
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 Finland did not win the war but neither did Soviet Union. If you don't believe in facts then believe in what ever you wish. I couldn't care less. Everything you say is not based on anything else than on your own thoughts. As I said it reveals you don't know a thing about military history. Finland did write peace treaty because was forced by allies. Finland wanted to make peace in the end of 1943 and beginning of 1944. Stalin didn't want to. Stalin was very crooked man.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki Finland made peace because of the allies? This is most bazare statement I've ever herd. even ultra-nationalistic finns never said that. wow shows a real ignorance from ur side. But whatever, Karelia and Vyborg is in right place where it should be.
zheka1780 1 year ago
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@tupakki Finland made peace because of the allies? This is most bazare statement I've ever herd. even ultra-nationalistic finns never said that. wow shows a real ignorance from ur side. But whatever, Karelia and Vyborg is in right place where it should be.
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 You don't know anything about military history when you are speaking like that. I could tell you about soviet 32. army when he walked into trap. Soviet divisions 289. and 176. were destroyed by finns. On Karelian isthmus, Tali-Ihantala, finnish troops stopped the assault and after that moment, finnish army was stronger than soviet. Finnish troops could have push russians back but americans told that Finland can't attack anymore. Read the military history. I could use more details.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki You've lost the freaking war. Here you're talking about the battles not wars. You are braines washed and sound like an idiot if you think that Americans told Finns to stop fighting. This is just redicoulus. I'm no wondering why Vyborg was awarded a status of hero city so history can't be re-writen by such idiots as you
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 In your head we lost the war. Battles at summer 1944 effected to the result of the war. Roosevelt told Stalin that Finland need to get off the war as soon as possible. It would have happened without any foughts but Stalin once again tried to have Finland or at least major part of it. Once again, read history and you will know details. Rewriting? You are really something. You don't nothing about the history and when you hear facts you get offended by them. Very absurd.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki lol. Do you take drugs? I suggest you at least read wikipedia about this and then open your mouth saying you know history, which you don't
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 If you try to insult me by those stupid statements. Not working. So I should read wikipedia instead of actual history books? ;) Thank you for telling me. You don't know anything about peace process between Soviet Union and Finland and how England and USA was involved. That's why its bizarre for you. It's really pointless to talk about these things with you because you don't know them at all. You are just telling things you have heard somewhere which isn't making any sense at all.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki What history books? finish? I'm just telling you things which I know and which are proven, but you so arrogant as a jack-ass to accept anything
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 How many times I need to repeat myself before you get something? Read what I have been saying earlier. Have I been talking only about finnish history books? What I should accept now? This is not making much sense but that's not a suprise anymore.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki a suprise for you. go to 3w (dot)ntv (dot)ru/novosti/ 192185/#tn5 (type in without spaces) It's today news. It sBtw, I have an another suprise ays that five towns throghout the Russia were given status of hero cities and Vyborg is one of them. In the news it says that city was occupied by finns and germans in 1941 and was libareted in 1944 :) So you finns are occupiers of Vyborg
zheka1780 1 year ago
I know that already. So it was no suprise for me. It was very sick to give a name like that to Vyborg, a finnish city. It was very big insult. Imagine that somebody would steal a big city from you and they give a name like that to it. How you would think it? Finns and germans occupied the city? That really tells the level of your news. There was no german troops on Vyborg area (few soldiers there were like some german navy troops). How you can liberate a finnish city from finnish soldiers?
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki so they said this on finish news too :) So you see NTV wasn't lying after all :) They just gave the name as a hero city to it in a memory of those who died in finish concentration camps and those who died retaking the city from nazi Germany and Finland. I can uderstand why are you not happy, but you should understand us too. Same thing I can say about your news agencies that they are full of BS
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 Yes they have said it on finnish news. First time about a month ago. Vyborg was not a hero city of Soviet war history. It's a huge insult for finnish people. I already explained you about those finnish camps and you know what? Soviet Union did same with finnish civilians they got. Have you ever heard what happened people from Suomussalmi, Juntusranta? They were sent to soviet camps and many of them died. Also those partisan hits on finnish villages where civilians were killed.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki whatever. How would they say a month ago on this if it was announced only 2 days ago in Russia? Partisants would hit only those who help the nazis during WW2
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 It was on Helsingin Sanomat at 26.3.2010. It makes more than a month ago. I can give you the page if you want. Partisans killed finnish civilians during the Continuation War. "In East Karelia most partisans attacked Finnish military supply and communication targets, but on the Finnish side of the border, almost two thirds of the attacks targeted civilians..." Try google and you can find more about these hits.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki First of all Eastern Karelia never belonged to Finland so patisans had all the rights to attack Finns there. They were targeting civilians who were helping finns.
zheka1780 1 year ago
@zheka1780 Read what I said. "but on the Finnish side of the border, almost two thirds of the attacks targeted civilians...". On the Finnish side of the border, it means inside of finnish borders. Yes I know partisans worked on finnish front and finns have same kind type of troop which worker behind enemy line as well but never targeted any civilians. I said that finns couldn't let russian to be free on military area because they were supporting partisans. That's one reason for camps.
tupakki 1 year ago
"You will always will be fascist to us" Till this moment you can't explain me fascism and how you can see that in Finland and finns. I have asked it several times. No one has ever called democratic Finland a term fascist country besides russians. What it really tells about you and your country? You know what, europeans and americans have called Soviet Union as a red fascism after the WW2. You really are something. :) Liberation day of fascist finns. I couldn't laugh more.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki we don't expect the west to thing highly of us. We were in cold war with them this is why they have such a stupid mentality regarding russia (including you) We don't give a shit what some redneck called us red fascist or something else. Franklly I've never herd of this term. Yes, Vyborg has this day and it's official. You can laugh as much as you want but this won't change a thing. lol
zheka1780 1 year ago
If you have not heard the term it doesn't mean its not there. Write it on google and soon you have seen it more than eneough. Yes I have noticed that you don't care what people think about you and your country but maybe you should. Also write "Fascism in Russia" on google and see who should be worried about fascism. ;) Yes I do laugh for liberation of Vyborg. It's nothing more than a sick joke. I can't understand how you can't see it.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki yes we do have skinheads like everywhere else including your Finland. Anyway, soon we'll 9th of may celebrations including in Vyborg. Come on over and you'll see how we celebrete a liberations of it. It's better to see once then to hear about it
zheka1780 1 year ago
@tupakki Do you even know why Stalin shot those Polish officers? Most probably not, only ignorance and brainwashing from your side
zheka1780 1 year ago
Yes I know why Stalin shot Polish officers because he was going to do the same with finnish officers and civil guards. He also said: "God made a mistake when he put finns on that land but I can fix God's error". There is also many other sick statements he said about finns. Ok if I am brainwashed, just tell me how it was justified to shoot tens of thousands of polish people? I can't wait to hear how twisted reply I will get from you. I bet you also say that you liberated baltic states. Right?
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki OMG! I think they zombie you in your school. When did Stalin say something like this about Finns. I want to see proves. Just don't give the bull shit from Finland on that. Give me some neutrual sources. According to recent archives, which for most part are open now, Stalin shot those officers (not soldiers or civilians) as an act of revenge for 1920s Soviet-Polish war, when thousands Soviet POW died in Polish camps. If you don't believe it's your problem. Even Poles agree with this
zheka1780 1 year ago
Stalin said it before the Winter War. It's from history book and I will try to find the orginal source for this statement. Bull shit from Finland? Sure. I want to tell you something, Finland isn't a Russia where lies are next truth. Oh it was just a revenge to kill those polish officers and other polish people. Sorry that I was so harsh. Then it's right to kill any people as a revenge. So those kills of polish intelligentsia was also same revenge? 1919-21 russian prisoners died, I agree.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki I really don't know why Stalin decisded to kill polish itelegnciya, maybe same reason he killed Russian intelegnciya, but many say because of that polish intelegenciya took a part in Soviet Polish war of the 20sIf you still don't know there are 10'000 Soviet citizens also were shot in Katyn theyr graves next to Polish ones. No revenge is not good, but Stalin was commander at that war with Poland so yes, he took it very personal.
zheka1780 1 year ago
It was just an awful crime, a war crime. Yes I know Stalin killed polish intelligentsia for same reason he killed russian and other. That's true. That happening need to be remember in history. Not forgetting as its happening now. There is also other soviet crimes which need to be remembered as nazi crimes. Soviet Union did awful things for many people, including finns and karelian. Those crimes need to be judged by Russia and it's leaders.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki where is it happening now? just don't give me this horse shit on Putin and Medvedev, ok? I won't buy it anyway. Judge by Russia? and who's going to be on trial then? dead stalin or others? It's history now. Karelia is not coming back to you and Estonians are not going to be paid as they ask.
zheka1780 1 year ago
I don't give a horse ass what you buy and what you won't. If Russia would be like European country, it would admit all of those crimes they have done. Germany has done that so long time ago, they admit crimes of nazi-Germany. Like people are saying, Russia isn't even close as European countries. I need to agree with it. Future will show the destiny of Karelia. It's not mine and whats more important, not your call. Many estonians died for example in Siberia and SU occupied their country.
tupakki 1 year ago
@tupakki yet you europeans are havily depend on Russia, so who gives a shit about Russia being in EU. I personally don't want to. Fuck Estonia. Them nazis deserved everything. They can go to hell.
zheka1780 1 year ago