I strongly suggest to watch the entire episodes, not just one particular part of the 10 series drama.
It is true that Chinese weren't completely victorious exactly because Chinese were beaten up so badly by the South Koreans in many battles; and it's exactly true that South Korea wasn't able to achieve complete victory either because South Korea was beaten up badly by the Chinese in a lot of battles as well.
There's no reason for Chinese to feel angry and call this drama a cheap propaganda.
I went through the entire drama - despite all the controversies, I say it's good entertainment.
Plus I dont' get the reason why this drama enrages the Chinese here: take a look at other episodes - the drama depicts as closely as possible how South Korean army was obliterated by the Chinese PLA; it also describes how well South Korea prevailed victorious in some combats.
It tells me nothing but the director and staff were trying to be as close to actual history as possible.
Late stages of the war: Chinese PLA came in massive numbers, the U.N. forces for driven all the way down south even losing Seoul, the South Korean capital city.
Then the big and small pushing combat went on and on nearby the 38th parallel.
By 1953, the armistice agreement was signed to call a seize fire.
So in conclusion, some stages of the war, the Chinese were being beaten up pretty badly by South Korea while some stages of the war, the Koreans were being raped by the Chinese.
@lonewar You don't have to worry about I being offended - these open discussions are something that brings you Chinese and Koreans like I closer together; afterall, you said it yourself, we don't know each other that well.
Plus, I already commented that drama is a drama; I don't buy this drama as a history documentary. It's a drama, an imaginative story taking the Korean war as a theme to picture friendship among men in war.
@lonewar Furthermore, I never said the PLA in Korea was inexperienced. I clearly said they were experienced warriors. I just said, in the legal context, although they were the regular troops, being commanded by the CCP, they came in as a volunteer army.
A comment from the Chinese historians make it clear CCP had two objectives: 1) make sure Americans don't confront Manchuria; 2) avoid full scale confrontation against the U.S.
@lonewar In order to do so, CCP couldn't send in an army under the flag of CCP otherwise it would mean China would take the risk of going into another full scale war against the U.N. Therefore, the Chinese forces in Korea were volunteer based forces coming from the well experienced combat soldiers of the regular PLA.
@lonewar Besides, about Korean movies like 신기전; again, it's nothing more than a fake movie. Nobody here in Korea is stupid enough to believe the movie as a true history documentary. The theme of 신기전 was to tell out the public about the importance of science and technology; if we neglect sci. & tech. then the only option left for us is to be overran by 'foreign evil devils.'
That's it. Period. Just an imaginary drama, not a history documentary.
@lonewar Besides, about comments coming from other part of China; I'd rather ignore pointless profanity.
I had many Chinese friends and they taught me the value of respect; if I want to be respected, then don't offend others.
Furthremore, just because a topic is sensitive doesn't mean we should avoid it.
There were significant Chinese making out fake stories that Koreans claimed everything is from Korea; but that misunderstanding was resolved after a long conversation.
@lonewar That's why I'd rather take up the discussion especially if the topic is sensitive instead of avoiding it.
The example I said below, only after a long conversation of trying to understand each other, my Chinese friends finally understood that nobody in Korea ever made any idiotic comments that 'everything is from Korea.'
That really flopped me up; suddenly everybody asking me 'why do Koreans claim everything is from Korea?' really was a surprise in the first place.
@drjaekim The PVA were mostly from the NorthEast Manchurian army right? Well to be honest that army was the weakest . The Central China and Eastern China Field armies were much stronger. The NE army won those battles due to forcing their enemies to surrender, but EFA and CFA gained actual experience from actually fighting the enemy.
@drjaekim The fact that NE army won famous victories such as Liaoshen were not impressive at all. For example the Siege of Jinzhou, Siege of Changcun , Siege of Shengyang and siege of 9th army group ended with PLA victories only because the Nationalists surrendered too easily(for many reasons of course). The CFA and ECFA won battles by actually fighting their enemies and not waiting till they surrendered.
@drjaekim Now NE army, ECFA and CFA used encirclement tactics agianst Nationalists but whats different about ECFA and CFA were that they didn't just sit around they attacked Nationalist soldiers who were being encircled resulting in heavy casualties for those two army groups. For example in the Shuangduiji and Menglianggu campaigns they fought nationalist elite 74th division and 12th army in full confrontation resulting in heavy casualties despite destroying those elite units.
@drjaekim Going back to Liaoshen the NE Army claimed to have destroyed the Nationalist New 1st and New 6th armies in two parts one in Changcun siege and the other in 9th army group siege . In truth those two armies surrendered mostly peacefully and barely any fighting occured . Why did I bring this up? Well because I disagree with you saying the Chinese armies were disciplined and experienced right?
@drjaekim Experienced means fighting the enemy and surviving. PLA mostly won due to frocing the enemy to surrender, thats not experience thats luck(about NE field army only all other Chinese communist armies had to fight their enemies while experiencing heavy casualties). Now back to korean War these so called,"disciplined and experienced" Chinese coldiers were in name only . Sure they might have known what the battlefield was like , but their past victories were"too easy".
@samg9888 Well yeah ....let's see. US army:well disciplined, well equipped, bigger force than enemy, lot's of allies to back it up and better technology against cavemen armed with crappy weapons. The comparison can't be made as the US force does fight the Talibans, and Iraq troops not just encircling them and waiting for them to surrender.
@drjaekim Thank you for typing so many words and I like this discussion. If one day South Korea will take over North Korea, I think many Chinese will support your country, because the current North Korea regime sucks.
Korean war...both the Chinese side and the Korean side saw glorious victories while experiencing miserable defeats at the same time.
Early stages of the war: South Korea was getting our ass kicked obviously; no preparation for war at all.
Middle stages of the war: with the U.N. support, South Korea was about to unify the country when we reached the Abrok River and the Duman River confronting Manchuria. And that was the time the first Chinese prisoner was caught POW.
What a ridiculous drama! PLA got really strict disciplines because they just finished civil war back then. Doing those aggressive nonsense? Come on, nobody would risk lives to shake naked ass in front their enemy!
@lonewar The PLA at the time were a mix and match of all units. Yes, majority of them were strict disciplined army, but legally speaking, they weren't the regular army. The Chinese military at the time intervened as volunteer task group, not as the Chinese PLA force, in order to evade full scale confrontation against the U.N.
@lonewar And because it was a mix and match of everybody - both disciplined and peasant farmers - it is true that some part of the Chinese were fighting well while some part were doing exactly what the drama depicts.
From the military intelligence recorded by both the Chinese part and the U.N. part, it is true that the Chinese were suffering shortage in their supplies that not all, but significant part of the PLA forces had nothing but flags and gongs in their hand.
@drjaekim Gongs are for propaganda, not warfares.
I don't know your definition of "regular army", but PLA had fought with Chinese national army before 1949, and Japanese troops before 1945. Yes they're quite short of weapons and food maybe and the the whole China was quite poor because of the continuous WW2 and civil war, but they are experienced. The CCP believed if China could not prevent the US from taking over North Korea, they will invade China.
@drjaekim But this drama scene is just too...imaginative! I doubt no one sane in this world would do that kind of thing. I can't believe U even buy it!It just reminds me Mel Gibson's film Braveheart in 1995.
The weird scene in the drama is not a big deal. But as I know more Korea movies and dramas, I know that you Koreans don't know much about us. You may have created a image of us but that's not who we are. Be wary of this, it is a form of brainwashing that set blockade between the two nations.
@drjaekim I like war movies. But Korean war seems still quite a sensitive issue. No directors in China or the US dare to make movie on this topic. What a pity! Americans had made movies of each of their wars, civil wars, WW2, Vietnam war, Irap war, but not this war.
@lonewar 义勇军 would be the right Chinese word, isn't it?
From what I've learned from a Chinese history professor was that majority of the PLA involved in Korea were strictly disciplined well experienced army from the civil war, but legally they were coming in as 义勇军, volunteer army so that the Chinese government which was new at the time could have excuses of evading trouble against the U.N., especially the United States of America.
@drjaekim The correct official name of the Chinese army was 志愿军，or志願軍 in traditional Chinese.义勇军 is another word.
Actually I hope the Korean war should never happened and so that North Koreans don't have to live like they do now. And I don't even believe in communism at all. But I just also don't like you depict some weird images and say: they are Chinese!
Not just this single movie, others like 신기전, Ming's regular army from China dress like barbarians, while Koreans dress like us.
@drjaekim What's worse, your army have missiles! Before about 600 years ago! There're comments from mainland of China, Hongkong, Taiwan. I believe you do not want to read their comments.
I thought this movie was intended to be just a comedy or fiction movie or something until they told me the Korean director of the movie did some research in history.
ROK just fail so much they won't accept the reality that the Chinese army literally rape their military and took over their capital and defeated all their white ass allies combined, The only way to make them feel less shamefull is their dramas. sad indeed, when i saw this i LMAO, not because of the chinese in it but on the korean who made them.
@ComradeMing Yes thats common knowledge abut racial segregation, there were loopholes on that such as having the Navaho code talkers. And Japanese American interpreters. The Korean War was where the American military was integrated. And the racial segregation of American military forces was instituted in the 1800s. The were ethnic Chinese in American military during WW2.
That was funny
XiaoDanDragon 1 week ago
What the hell
XiaoDanDragon 1 week ago
p.s. Thanks for those people filling me in with lots of history lessons.
drjaekim 2 weeks ago
I strongly suggest to watch the entire episodes, not just one particular part of the 10 series drama.
It is true that Chinese weren't completely victorious exactly because Chinese were beaten up so badly by the South Koreans in many battles; and it's exactly true that South Korea wasn't able to achieve complete victory either because South Korea was beaten up badly by the Chinese in a lot of battles as well.
There's no reason for Chinese to feel angry and call this drama a cheap propaganda.
drjaekim 2 weeks ago
I went through the entire drama - despite all the controversies, I say it's good entertainment.
Plus I dont' get the reason why this drama enrages the Chinese here: take a look at other episodes - the drama depicts as closely as possible how South Korean army was obliterated by the Chinese PLA; it also describes how well South Korea prevailed victorious in some combats.
It tells me nothing but the director and staff were trying to be as close to actual history as possible.
drjaekim 2 weeks ago
hay lắm!
ngoccao1 3 weeks ago
Im guessing that the chinese said "kiss my ass"
SuperForeverKpop 1 month ago
it a drama not a real why you guy talking this like a stupid thing?
OMG is this a comment war or something ?
Kimjunku16 1 month ago
Wow some people can't take a joke !
TheHtjohn 1 month ago
I am Chinese and I still think this is hilarious.
robustfesto 1 month ago
South got almost wiped out this is bullshit south Korea propaganda
ART4455491 1 month ago
Late stages of the war: Chinese PLA came in massive numbers, the U.N. forces for driven all the way down south even losing Seoul, the South Korean capital city.
Then the big and small pushing combat went on and on nearby the 38th parallel.
By 1953, the armistice agreement was signed to call a seize fire.
So in conclusion, some stages of the war, the Chinese were being beaten up pretty badly by South Korea while some stages of the war, the Koreans were being raped by the Chinese.
drjaekim 2 months ago
@drjaekim Hope you don't think I am offensive because I'm not. There's other issues but I think I'd not talked about them.
lonewar 2 months ago
@lonewar You don't have to worry about I being offended - these open discussions are something that brings you Chinese and Koreans like I closer together; afterall, you said it yourself, we don't know each other that well.
Plus, I already commented that drama is a drama; I don't buy this drama as a history documentary. It's a drama, an imaginative story taking the Korean war as a theme to picture friendship among men in war.
drjaekim 2 months ago
@lonewar Furthermore, I never said the PLA in Korea was inexperienced. I clearly said they were experienced warriors. I just said, in the legal context, although they were the regular troops, being commanded by the CCP, they came in as a volunteer army.
A comment from the Chinese historians make it clear CCP had two objectives: 1) make sure Americans don't confront Manchuria; 2) avoid full scale confrontation against the U.S.
drjaekim 2 months ago
@lonewar In order to do so, CCP couldn't send in an army under the flag of CCP otherwise it would mean China would take the risk of going into another full scale war against the U.N. Therefore, the Chinese forces in Korea were volunteer based forces coming from the well experienced combat soldiers of the regular PLA.
drjaekim 2 months ago
@lonewar Besides, about Korean movies like 신기전; again, it's nothing more than a fake movie. Nobody here in Korea is stupid enough to believe the movie as a true history documentary. The theme of 신기전 was to tell out the public about the importance of science and technology; if we neglect sci. & tech. then the only option left for us is to be overran by 'foreign evil devils.'
That's it. Period. Just an imaginary drama, not a history documentary.
drjaekim 2 months ago
@lonewar Besides, about comments coming from other part of China; I'd rather ignore pointless profanity.
I had many Chinese friends and they taught me the value of respect; if I want to be respected, then don't offend others.
Furthremore, just because a topic is sensitive doesn't mean we should avoid it.
There were significant Chinese making out fake stories that Koreans claimed everything is from Korea; but that misunderstanding was resolved after a long conversation.
drjaekim 2 months ago
@lonewar That's why I'd rather take up the discussion especially if the topic is sensitive instead of avoiding it.
The example I said below, only after a long conversation of trying to understand each other, my Chinese friends finally understood that nobody in Korea ever made any idiotic comments that 'everything is from Korea.'
That really flopped me up; suddenly everybody asking me 'why do Koreans claim everything is from Korea?' really was a surprise in the first place.
drjaekim 2 months ago
@drjaekim The PVA were mostly from the NorthEast Manchurian army right? Well to be honest that army was the weakest . The Central China and Eastern China Field armies were much stronger. The NE army won those battles due to forcing their enemies to surrender, but EFA and CFA gained actual experience from actually fighting the enemy.
RepublicofChina1000 2 weeks ago
@drjaekim The fact that NE army won famous victories such as Liaoshen were not impressive at all. For example the Siege of Jinzhou, Siege of Changcun , Siege of Shengyang and siege of 9th army group ended with PLA victories only because the Nationalists surrendered too easily(for many reasons of course). The CFA and ECFA won battles by actually fighting their enemies and not waiting till they surrendered.
RepublicofChina1000 2 weeks ago
@drjaekim Now NE army, ECFA and CFA used encirclement tactics agianst Nationalists but whats different about ECFA and CFA were that they didn't just sit around they attacked Nationalist soldiers who were being encircled resulting in heavy casualties for those two army groups. For example in the Shuangduiji and Menglianggu campaigns they fought nationalist elite 74th division and 12th army in full confrontation resulting in heavy casualties despite destroying those elite units.
RepublicofChina1000 2 weeks ago
@drjaekim Going back to Liaoshen the NE Army claimed to have destroyed the Nationalist New 1st and New 6th armies in two parts one in Changcun siege and the other in 9th army group siege . In truth those two armies surrendered mostly peacefully and barely any fighting occured . Why did I bring this up? Well because I disagree with you saying the Chinese armies were disciplined and experienced right?
RepublicofChina1000 2 weeks ago
@drjaekim Experienced means fighting the enemy and surviving. PLA mostly won due to frocing the enemy to surrender, thats not experience thats luck(about NE field army only all other Chinese communist armies had to fight their enemies while experiencing heavy casualties). Now back to korean War these so called,"disciplined and experienced" Chinese coldiers were in name only . Sure they might have known what the battlefield was like , but their past victories were"too easy".
RepublicofChina1000 2 weeks ago
@RepublicofChina1000
isnt our victory in Iraq too easy?
samg9888 2 weeks ago
@samg9888 Well yeah ....let's see. US army:well disciplined, well equipped, bigger force than enemy, lot's of allies to back it up and better technology against cavemen armed with crappy weapons. The comparison can't be made as the US force does fight the Talibans, and Iraq troops not just encircling them and waiting for them to surrender.
RepublicofChina1000 2 weeks ago
@drjaekim In Korea war only did the Chinese armies get the "discipline and experience" the right way and not from cheap victories.
RepublicofChina1000 2 weeks ago
@lonewar Anyway, I'd welcome more comments.
As you were pointing out, I'm carrying the same exact principle; no means of offense at all.
I'm just trying to learn more about you and your culture.
drjaekim 2 months ago
@drjaekim Thank you for typing so many words and I like this discussion. If one day South Korea will take over North Korea, I think many Chinese will support your country, because the current North Korea regime sucks.
lonewar 2 months ago
Korean war...both the Chinese side and the Korean side saw glorious victories while experiencing miserable defeats at the same time.
Early stages of the war: South Korea was getting our ass kicked obviously; no preparation for war at all.
Middle stages of the war: with the U.N. support, South Korea was about to unify the country when we reached the Abrok River and the Duman River confronting Manchuria. And that was the time the first Chinese prisoner was caught POW.
drjaekim 2 months ago
What a ridiculous drama! PLA got really strict disciplines because they just finished civil war back then. Doing those aggressive nonsense? Come on, nobody would risk lives to shake naked ass in front their enemy!
This drama sucks!
lonewar 2 months ago
@lonewar The PLA at the time were a mix and match of all units. Yes, majority of them were strict disciplined army, but legally speaking, they weren't the regular army. The Chinese military at the time intervened as volunteer task group, not as the Chinese PLA force, in order to evade full scale confrontation against the U.N.
drjaekim 2 months ago
@lonewar And because it was a mix and match of everybody - both disciplined and peasant farmers - it is true that some part of the Chinese were fighting well while some part were doing exactly what the drama depicts.
From the military intelligence recorded by both the Chinese part and the U.N. part, it is true that the Chinese were suffering shortage in their supplies that not all, but significant part of the PLA forces had nothing but flags and gongs in their hand.
drjaekim 2 months ago
@drjaekim Gongs are for propaganda, not warfares.
I don't know your definition of "regular army", but PLA had fought with Chinese national army before 1949, and Japanese troops before 1945. Yes they're quite short of weapons and food maybe and the the whole China was quite poor because of the continuous WW2 and civil war, but they are experienced. The CCP believed if China could not prevent the US from taking over North Korea, they will invade China.
lonewar 2 months ago
@drjaekim But this drama scene is just too...imaginative! I doubt no one sane in this world would do that kind of thing. I can't believe U even buy it!It just reminds me Mel Gibson's film Braveheart in 1995.
The weird scene in the drama is not a big deal. But as I know more Korea movies and dramas, I know that you Koreans don't know much about us. You may have created a image of us but that's not who we are. Be wary of this, it is a form of brainwashing that set blockade between the two nations.
lonewar 2 months ago
@drjaekim I like war movies. But Korean war seems still quite a sensitive issue. No directors in China or the US dare to make movie on this topic. What a pity! Americans had made movies of each of their wars, civil wars, WW2, Vietnam war, Irap war, but not this war.
lonewar 2 months ago
@lonewar 义勇军 would be the right Chinese word, isn't it?
From what I've learned from a Chinese history professor was that majority of the PLA involved in Korea were strictly disciplined well experienced army from the civil war, but legally they were coming in as 义勇军, volunteer army so that the Chinese government which was new at the time could have excuses of evading trouble against the U.N., especially the United States of America.
drjaekim 2 months ago
@drjaekim The correct official name of the Chinese army was 志愿军，or志願軍 in traditional Chinese.义勇军 is another word.
Actually I hope the Korean war should never happened and so that North Koreans don't have to live like they do now. And I don't even believe in communism at all. But I just also don't like you depict some weird images and say: they are Chinese!
Not just this single movie, others like 신기전, Ming's regular army from China dress like barbarians, while Koreans dress like us.
lonewar 2 months ago
@drjaekim What's worse, your army have missiles! Before about 600 years ago! There're comments from mainland of China, Hongkong, Taiwan. I believe you do not want to read their comments.
I thought this movie was intended to be just a comedy or fiction movie or something until they told me the Korean director of the movie did some research in history.
lonewar 2 months ago
S. Korea rule
end of
SKgyebaek 2 months ago
ROK just fail so much they won't accept the reality that the Chinese army literally rape their military and took over their capital and defeated all their white ass allies combined, The only way to make them feel less shamefull is their dramas. sad indeed, when i saw this i LMAO, not because of the chinese in it but on the korean who made them.
purelego 2 months ago 2
That was Hilarious
JLOStudios 4 months ago
@ComradeMing Yes thats common knowledge abut racial segregation, there were loopholes on that such as having the Navaho code talkers. And Japanese American interpreters. The Korean War was where the American military was integrated. And the racial segregation of American military forces was instituted in the 1800s. The were ethnic Chinese in American military during WW2.
XVMSSS02 4 months ago
@ComradeMing they deny it hen but then they admit now during the post-Soviet era.
The werent all white they were blacks from Ethiopia and brown people from Turkey .
And the American military had browns and blacks too.
XVMSSS02 4 months ago
@ComradeMing And like you didnt use white Soviet cocks piloting those Mig15 for air cover?
XVMSSS02 4 months ago
hahahahaha
MrJsmith1987 4 months ago
It is fake. South Korean, it's shame on you.
yunlongwang1987 5 months ago 5
They are Korean in disguise lol Chinese PLA never did anything like that.
NgJackal1990 5 months ago 5
nice shot..haha
siuevan 6 months ago