Of Women by Arthur Schopenhauer part 2

[PopeOfTheUniverse]

i wonder if he'd say these things about his mother. or sister.

[loai050]

Schopenhauer did not have a balanced view, even his distaste for the female form is quite odd and unworthy of inclusion in a serious work. The man was very clever, but not normal alas. He was eccentric . But that said, men who have focused their negativity on women are comforted by his skewed,mean-spirited view of them.

[fredbloggs02]

@loai050 What interests me is, why you care for women in general? You don't speak for women, neither does he; but only you defend them. I'd happily rail against men in general, women in general too... You don't seem to care. To you, you speak for women in general as though you were of their kind. That interests me...especially when most men interested in Schopenhauer would probably(more or less) all have convinced themselves about men in general; they look for the exceptions..

[fredbloggs02]

@loai050... Alas not normal.. Thank God for that! Balanced... Who learns anything from blessedly balanced people? He who defends all, defends nothing. He had the courage for his own thoughts despite the veil of political correctness. I don't object to your finding that distasteful, or your interpretation but have the courage to call it what it is. Please don't stand behind him, please for my sake and his be the exception; don't listen to him.

[loai050]

Yeah - out with the bons bons. I'm sure there are few women interested in high level maths etc. It needs interest, not only ability. There is more to the be known/understood in this world than maths/physics etc -there are other aspects to intelligence- you take a very narrow elitist view , ( real degrees). No need to see women as the enemy, there is good and bad, strengths and weaknesses in both sexes.

[TheAsianEngineer]

@loai050 Males have greater (genotypic) visuospatial intelligence (the cause of evolutionary, look it up), this is why women are underrepresented in Math, Physics and Engineering. Its simply because they're incompetent compared to the male population in those fields. Males also have greater variance in genotypic IQ and thus will always produce the majority of great thinkers, inventors and so on.

[loai050]

@TheAsianEngineer Intelligence isn't all about the viseospatial component. But that's your area of strength and yes it is more a male than female trait. I don't think you guys are all mumbling idiots because you have a lesser ability to communicate, and it's ok that's you aren't so good at multi-tasking, and have poorer peripheral vision, and get emotionaly overwhelmed easily and must detach, can't cope...........you are still worthy people.As to inventions etc.

[loai050]

@loai050 Until relatively recently men did not allow women to hold patents, publish books, attend universities or vote even. Why was that ?????? Why the need to keep women back ?..........why do men feel so threatened by women ? That's the interesting question.

[fredbloggs02]

@loai050 Perhaps honesty has more to do with it than intelligence although; if I were to accept any standard measure of intelligence, I'd not commit to the position of women winning by a storm... Perhaps a lack culpability for themselves has more to do with why women have been oppressed, because they couldn't be controlled by men, because laws today make use of an individual's guilt and women are so made(in general) without a conscience for themselves.

[loai050]

@fredbloggs02 I wouldn't commit to them winning by a storm either ,I'm sure there'd be gender differences in different areas , I don't thin the differences are significant enough to brand women as less intelligent . As to conscience, women are more religious than men, are less likely to cheat , murder etc, I'd say they'd win by a storm on that front. The Schop. quote posted by daviesman90 above is worth a read - it put's a lot of the negative statements in a cultural perspective.

[fredbloggs02]

@loai050 I'd already read Shopehauerr's essay on women, not that those were his only thoughts. He must have lifted it from a different translation, or a text I'm yet to read of his. The way I read it, he explicitly stated women were the less intelligent sex, which is something I don't agree with myself, not that I change the words in his mouth, any more than he should from mine. He spoke of the "exception" but in general disregarded both men and women in general.

[CrazyChitTV]

My girlfriend feels that A.S. is 100% correct on women. In fact she prefers to only hire men at the 2 large bank branches that she manages. They have had to fire A LOT of women for stealing and showing up late.

[loai050]

I was wondering how long it would take for one your ilk to emerge from your burrow and bite,lol.

[CrazyChitTV]

@loai050 In my 1987 graduating class at Univ of Michigan school of engineering we had exactly 4 women and 389 men. In my physics classes it was the same.

As far as caring for little children and such... women are superior since they are half way between children and real men in intelligence.

[loai050]

@CrazyChitTV There's a much bigger percentage of women in engineering and the sciences in Europe - but they find it hard to get a foothold in engineering - men don't want to hire them.

[loai050]

Poor man obviously was surrounded by plain, short-legged, wide- hipped women who weren't interested in art . Bummer.

[loai050]

His was a world where men held all power and women were of necessity narrow in their ambitions and quite scheming, The oppression of women has only lifted recently. This is not so much a factual description of female characteristics, rather it is a description of how women behave when when they could only live through men. Bad ol' days.

[cory2146]

@loai050 Shut your mouth feminist scum.

[CrazyChitTV]

@loai050 Now in the good new feminist days 1 in 6 American women have herpes. Good job gals! Slut it out lol.

Men should always use condoms with these modern diseased women

[loai050]

@CrazyChitTV Yep, slutty men' get- around' sexually a lot more than women, don't want to use condoms and so have passed the STD's around- but women are now catching up more's the pity.

[Bydeathorlevel]

He did marry an 18 year old. I saw a portion of a documentary where she did not accept grapes from him and referred to him in negative terms, I wonder if that was the woman and I wonder if all of these observations of his relating to women are true or not. Is this fact or subjectivism? I see weakness in woman's and man's character, but it seems that woman's character is to be debated,whether it is man's fault for how they act or not, it is man that is also affected by man accordingly. Maturity.

[loai050]

@Bydeathorlevel He never married, had a child by a 19 year old singer with whom he stayed for 10 years, then he took-up with a 17 years old, it was she who let his grapes 'drop gently' behind her into the sea. He seems to have gone for young uneducated girls who were well beneath his class.

[CrazyChitTV]

@loai050 For high IQ men like A.S., myself and many others there are basically no women of similar IQ. For men to try to find women that are smart is a waste of time... it's as useless as searching for the fountain of youth.

Take a look at IQ scores, ACT/SAT exam scores. Men trump women handily not just in math and science, but in all aspects of intelligence. The key as far as women are concerned to men is to not waste any money on women. This is the age where women get to pay.

[loai050]

@CrazyChitTV It has been revealed in the past 5 years that females actually outscored men - but various government actually held back high scoring females and gave the placements to lesser scoring males - unbelievable, but true. Males find it hard to focus - testosterone. Generally, females are better with children, males have less tolerance to stress due to testosterone , hence they are more aggressive , children are stressors. Women must pay equally, pay isn't yet equal, but is near enough.

[CrazyChitTV]

@loai050 ROFL

It is time for women to stop eating bon bons and get off their asses and WORK. Men are no longer willing to marry and support the weaker sex. Until women start getting real degrees like physics and engineering, and stop having babies, they will always be paid less

And the fact is with immigration we don't need American women to breed, we can just import more workers so that women can pay more taxes. It is time that women pay their fair share of taxes by working forever

[Bydeathorlevel]

It is interesting to see what his thoughts are, but he was also a man that lacked in love in his life. It is important to understand women for their struggles, to see these facts by the philosopher first hand because they do exist and he obviously can put into words his observations, but it is also important to note his affections for a certain young lady were dismissed and he constantly was at odds with himself as a lover, he lacked those attributes to get what he wanted, but did attract some.

[leparditas]

we woman are bustards and we need your f... money and social status.

[YourTrollingTroll]

awwww, poor Arty didn't get any...

[jmckinl1ongaku]

No wonder he was single all his life...and miserable.

[MrBastilleDay]

@jmckinl1ongaku why? why WAS he miserable and single all his life? I want to see you back that up.

[darklord220]

@jmckinl1ongaku he fucked a lot of girls, nietszche was the lonely one.

[Lucifer986]

@jmckinl1ongaku Arthur Schopenhauer was not single and was later married to a 18yr, so he was getting his fare share even in old age.

[Esoparagon]

@Idiocracy2040 What is with that? I've heard a few explanations but it still baffles me. I don't understand how the rationality that leads to atheism could also lead to such leftist beliefs like the nonsense of communism and all that so called 'progressive', politically correct ideology. They seem completely contradictory to rational thought. Blows my mind.

[ShockOfLemonade]

@Esoparagon What so rational thought leads to Conservativism? yeah...

[keiichixpp1]

意志と表象による世界

世界はわが表象である。

意志は盲目に生きんと欲す。

[jdthecrazy]

This is one of the most awesome things I've ever heard! So true!



[rumbamama]

Word for word, this is the absolute truth!

[mrblackholesunn1]

Too right, silly old cows.

[Fuliginosus]

Sounds like the dude has a few bad experiences.

[ParisSpleen74]

it's no accident that this man could not get laid during his lifetime, much like all the pitiable limp-dick misogynists who are virtually high-fiving each other here, in communal agreement with this pathetic failure with women.

[Gogonostop]

@ParisSpleen74

Bitch please.

[TheLusseyran]

@ParisSpleen74 again the pathetic ad hominem attack to his character because your intelligence and arguments are pitifully weak, so you don't even attempt to refute any of his points

[TheLusseyran]

@ParisSpleen74 "You don't have a girlfriend and can't get girls so ner ner" lol the base irony of it!

Please lets have some more comments from you, they serve as footnotes to back up his lecture on the nature of women.

[linguafranca123]

Rofl, for some reason I find this absolutely hilarious!

[NeverAloneForever]

This second part starts to sound like Shoepenhauer was going off here and there . . . as opposed to the first. Ah, well. It was the 19th Century. Not all of it is deluded though. Just a lot.

[81stReich]

Lol definitely true, not in all cases but in most! I go out facing perils and dangers of life and through whatever virtue I have, I perservere and claim victory, but a woman comes along and conquers me, so all my victories are hers. They have no needs for art or achievements, all they have to do is conquer the man to gain it all. I fail to see which one's supposed to be stupid or smarter, because that makes man the fool. I like being the fool, so I guess we can get along :)

[bobosinhell]

I just wish he'd mentioned more about their untrustworthiness, sadism, and massacre of loyalty.

[WizardKing78]

BRAVO ARTHUR!

[machodoggman]

TREAT WOMEN AS SPECIES AND NOT INDIVIDUALS!!!

YES!

[MrBastilleDay]

@machodoggman nope

[machodoggman]

TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!

[machodoggman]

100%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%­%%%%%

[misusedmetaphor]

right so women have "no objective interest in anything" what a crock of bull shit. I struggle with philosophers from this era because although they have a lot of interesting and mind blowing takes on life they all seem to come round to mysogyny. listening to this was infuriating.

[PopeOfTheUniverse]

@misusedmetaphor agreed! a total crock!

[superlyger]

Ask an honest intelligent woman and she would agree.



[VileCAESARB]

I adore woman, just am not dense enough to fall for their games! Control and conform= life is will to power

[redsbr]

Wow, this is a very good analysis of the nature of women. I hope his knowledge is respectively passed on to 21st century thinkers.

[jerryhello100]

Yeah, I'm not going to quote this essay, as I would his other work; but, like his other work, there is some frightening and difficult truth. He really over blows the faults of women, and doesn't seem to include, with men, the masses of male idiots. It comes of a bit bitter. But we oughtn't judge him, it was a different time.

It's just funny to see in the comments section how many bitter, and superior feeling men are completely agreeing with him.

[Bestideasyet]

women are the largest supremacist group in the planet. Unlike racial supremacists though, they are in fact more stupid than those they discriminate.

[SirFrancisDashwood15]

@Bestideasyet Well, said! I actually arrived at this same conclusion. A question that should be asked is: If they aren't our natural superiors, then how did it happen? Because feminism is an artiffcial 'force', and that women have no natural dominance, means that it must have been contrived by men, which it was. The alpha male, power Elite, monopoly capitalists of the world created feminism as a means to destroy, primarily, the white middle-class via destruction of family via war on white males.

[YerJob]

the ancients had the right idea

[AKAyoungwriter18]

Such behavior towards women is quite irrational. I can't help but wonder the way he thought about his mother? Was she an irrational being also? Only goo for breeding?

[MrDavies90]

@AKAyoungwriter18

Schopenhauer mother threw him out of the house because he was being a bad boy lol- true story

[AKAyoungwriter18]

@MrDavies90 HAHAHAHAHAHA if that is so that explains it all! "Mother my food is cold!"

[PopeOfTheUniverse]

@AKAyoungwriter18  well said!

[aMinorityView]

Oh, Schopenhauer, you funny man you...Quote: "Having no use at all for women, Schopenhauer never married and spent his life in what he regarded as mellow solitude in the company of his dogs."

[ParisSpleen74]

@aMinorityView

exaaaaaactly.

[elpapaya94]

could this possibly have something to do with the caroline marquet incident? lol that would be hilarious if it were true and a total humilitation on my part if not. =(

[tooshortboi1]

So you think depression stems from "the system".

[littlelizzybeth]

In nature there are males and females that have different varing roles, depending on the animal. Look at seahorses or how many birds share raising the offspring.

[tooshortboi1]

Pessimism is a mask to hide the true insecurity in a man..women use "inferiority" as a cop out.

[S2Cents]

@tooshortboi1 Who's Leftwing? Schopenhauer? The left is traditionally speaking anyway very optimistic about the ability of humans to make progress. lol Hence the term "progressive" People like Marx think it's "the system", economically speaking. Once we change the system we will be happy animals!

[bree9991]

Notice how everyone is in such a hurry to point out 'although I don't a agree with his veiws'...

Of course you don't, look at the time you're living in. This view was the norm for hundreds of years, since recorded history. And in the last 40 years we have been taught to -only take the middle ground -disagree with the unPC but find something to praise at the same time, so you don't seem too assertive.

His comments are not random, they perfectly match biological reasons for female tendancy.

[Thresholds]

The only historically "normal" view this essay contains is that women are subordinate/inferior (in morals, intellect, art, etc.) and should remain so. But his biological and psychological arguments for these positions aren't grounded in any empirical facts and are therefore unjustified speculations (from a particularly hateful, biased perspective, too). Also, the rest of the essay is very unconventional: the defense of polygamy, for example. It's not by chance that he used Byron as a contrast.

[bree9991]

Its nothing to do with 'should' or 'shouldnt', believing something doesnt make it true. He observes differences, both inferior and superior in women and he talks about them. Big deal. Some of what he's saying is going a bit far and doesnt apply to everyone, but a lot of the basic differences and the reasons behind them make sense and explain odd behaviour that hasnt been eradicated by politically correct institutions. Man doesnt shape man, he shapes what is fashionable to talk about.

[Thresholds]

Schopenhauer believed women should be kept in their [natural] place, i.e., bound to men. That's a pretty normal historical view.

His reasons make sense, if you disregard a 100+ years of advancements in biology, psychology, and social science (not to mention philosophy)! Don't get me wrong, I think Schopenhauer is brilliant, but his explanations for behaviors in this essay are extremely crude, even for him.

[BrandonEM09]

you don't know what you're talking about, you're full of shit, you make things worse by encouraging a culturally defined stereotype and falsely claiming you have any evidence for this that can't easily be chalked up to deep cultural programming...that being said, its funny/mortifying that these themes still animate much of the behavior of observable gender relations in the western world

[bree9991]

What deeply cultured world are you living in? The only culture I see is a culture of hate, hate of differences between peoples and genders, hatred of the past, hatred of strength, courage, femininity,beauty, a sheer hatred of anything and everything natural to us. These 'themes' are hard to squash with culture, because they are based on biology, you can't force a female lioness to act like a lion or vice versa. Whats funny is that you think indoctrination of PC beliefs can overcome instinct.

[ThePjokerman]

This is a real treasure for us English speakers. It is a good thing to bring the message to as many people as possible. Only a fool would believe this truth isn't being used against "The Species", so it is good to make this information and this part-time thespian most accessible. Well, it is good.

[DesiDude666]

The women are not the fairer sex, neither are they better. Biologically they perform their unique functional roles, as men perform their unique biological roles - and for that, I would agree to the thesis that ones who did label them the 'fairer' sex had done so in a state of passion for one of them.

However, their generalization is particularly negative in an intellectual analysis. Women during Orientalism might have had certain social traits, can we relate them with the women today? No.

[DucJeanDesEsseintes]

Die „freien Frauen, die „sich selbst verwirklichen, werden gehasst und zugleich verachtet. Niemand erwartet in ihnen Tugend und sie können auch keine haben, da Tugend nicht Sache des Weibes ist. Geachtet wird auf lange Sicht nur das Weib, das auch geliebt werden kann, das tugendhafte Weib.

[ejgiv]

A beautiful translation and very well read I might add. So much of what Schopenhauer says here is exactly correct. The problem is that he does not get to the "principle" of femininity in that he only speaks of "woman". "The feminine" as it were is found just as much in men as it is in women; by the same token "the masculine" is found in women often enough. Otto Weininger delves deeper into the problem than Schopenhauer did assuming the inherent "bi-sexual disposition" of all humans.

[bree9991]

So if you look at every other mammal species on the planet, are the females all just happening to be acting like females and the males all just coincidentallt taking on the masculine roles? Are they culturally taught to take on gender roles? Of course not, they have inherent Differences. And why would humans be an exception? What is more likely, that we humans are some freak of nature who dont have gender differences or is 70,000 years of gender relations actually reflecting something real??

[Thresholds]

Is that why bonobos are matriarchal?

[slimjunks]

wish i'd found this info. a long time ago... i've always tried 2 respect women as equals, but uh, all anybody could ever tell me is, "can't live w/ 'em, nor w/o 'em." they r strange creatures indeed, but perhaps us men per domestication has made them that way. 1 thing i'd like 2 say, is uh, women tend 2 b religious. they won't analyze 4 self unless it's 4 the moment at hand. sux 4 me, i can't deal w/ 'em. get a good dog.

[comicfan88]

One last bit of information:

"Schopenhauer held a high opinion of one woman, Madame de Guyon, whose writings and biography he recommended."

For the beginners of Schopenhauer, I reccomend to dispel all those ridiculous prejudices, like the one that he was a mysoginist.

He was a misanthropist.

[MrJohnJamal]

I'm also a misanthropist. I hate anything bodily oriented.

[Thresholds]

I'm a Schop "beginner," though not a total n00b, and I'm not quite sure why I should dispel of the idea that he was a misogynist given the complete misogyny of this essay. The fact that he respected a couple women, does not redeem him of from the charge of sexism. If you have any more information, please share.

[comicfan88]

Human existence must be some kind of error said Schopenhauer (along other things), the misanthropist, which negates right away partiality of feeling (misogyny). But do not be misguided by thinking of him as a poor soul full of hate. He was very sensible and noble (he defended suicide, animal rights, homosexuality and other things). I recommend you to read his primary works rather than to depend on second hand accounts like mine.

[Thresholds]

I don't see how his pessimism negates his misogyny. Life is a mistake, and woman is still more abominable and "unaesthetic" than man.

I don't know much about his biography. I know that he was an advocate of animal rights, that he advocated compassion through his moral philosophy, etc. But I also remember reading about him pushing some woman off a flight of stairs. I don't remember if this was an accusation or whether it was actually verified.

[comicfan88]

Not his pessimism his misanthropy. A misanhtrope by definition "hates" men.

Still, it is very possible that the relation with his mother gave him a bias, to negative opinion of women.

Also, one has to read this essay on a socio-historico view i suppose. Of course, somebody born today see this essay as an abomination, as much as, quite probably, people of 20 years more, will see our behavior and opinion of non- human animals with horror and resentiment.

[Thresholds]

OK, my bad, his misanthropy. I don't remember anything quite as vitriolic as this essay ever being directed at "men as such."

His relation with his mother quite obviously did effect his views of women.

This essay was harsh even for its time period.

[comicfan88]

Schopenhauer too, peculiarly, claimed that the new born inherit, from the mother, intelligence and, from the father, character.

So one could say that he disliked that woman, so capable, comformed herself on platitude.

I do not agree with schopenhauer on this issue (although he says some truths, like that ridiculous envy between women).

Still, even if he said only rubbish :D (on this essay), his prose is magnific and worthy of reading whether he spoke mistakenly, as he does here.

[Thresholds]

I agree with a bunch of stuff in this essay and it's one of my favorite pieces, actually, especially for the prose and the author's unabashed strong feelings on the matter (to put it mildly!)

[bree9991]

Oh he defended homosexuality and suicide, then he must be alright! As long as he subscribed to left-wing ideas it's ok people we can respect him, we're safe!

[comicfan88]

He did not defended it. He proved the irrationality and stupidity in the arguments against homosexuality and suicide.

Whether they are left wing or whatever cartoonish representation you make of the complex arena of politics has nothing to do with his arguments.

I respect him for his genius and blodness, as well as humanity. To lament is his hate for women, but not even genius is perfect.

[comicfan88]

Read his world as will and representation and his essays parerga and paralipomena.

[Thresholds]

Those are exactly the works that I've read. Great stuff. Highly enjoyable and interesting philosophy.

[comicfan88]

It is also worth knowing that schopenhauer said this later on:

After the elderly Schopenhauer sat for a sculpture portrait by Elisabet Ney, he told Richard Wagner's friend Malwida von Meysenbug, "I have not yet spoken my last word about women. I believe that if a woman succeeds in withdrawing from the mass, or rather raising herself above the mass, she grows ceaselessly and more than a man."

[comicfan88]

There are of course some honourable mentions(Austen, Dickinson, George Eliot), but never comparable to Beethoven, shakespeare, Miguelangelo to name a few.

Woman has made no contribution of great importance in philosophy as well.

Honourable mentions(Hypatia, Agnesi, Wollstonecraft)... yes, but not a cultural shift or sublime masterpiece.

[Thresholds]

It is trivially true that women haven't produced any good philosophy over the greater course of history. You can't expect anything significant to come out of a class of people who were as oppressed, sheltered, and discouraged as them. It was far from being an equal playing field (and it might not be all that equal even today). But over the past 100 years or so, we've seen an enormous rise in good female philosophers.

[comicfan88]

I wont negate that. But it is dubious the claim that women were intellectually inferior because of oppression, and because of it never flourished until now. That is half truth. Genius did flourish before, like Maria Agnesi, Hypatia or Mary Wollstonecraft (whom criticized woman for being comfortable on their submissive role and for idealizing herself, as a sentimental heroine of cheap novels).

[Thresholds]

It's not dubious at all, unless you don't believe women were actually oppressed. When you are held back and discouraged from learning and intellectual growth (in many cases on a legal basis), why should we expect you to make any significant contribution to our culture? How many famous African slave philosophers can you name? (I know it's an unfair analogy, but it gets the point across, which is why I used it).

[comicfan88]

Yes, it is true that woman was heavily oppressed, but is also true that many of them were quite at ease with this submissive role and with superficiality, and even enjoyed it like the "ladies" that Schopenhauer speaks here about.

[Thresholds]

Yeah, many people internalize and sexualize the submissive/inferior roles that society assigns them. Women are the perfect example of this. But you should be wary of attributing the desire of women to be submissive and superficial to their essence, since this is far from being an established fact.

[comicfan88]

Oh, did not say it was their essence.

[Thresholds]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you attributed their desire for the submissive role to their essence. I thought that you were saying that in order to justify the idea that women were oppressed because they like being in an oppressed position.

[comicfan88]

Is fine :)

I dont think all of them feel comfortable. Probably those that feel comfortable on the submissive role, were those brought up in such manner.

I admit lack of knowledge on this and certain bias toward schopenhauer to defend him :) (a fav philosopher).

[Thresholds]

Definitely, not every woman feels comfortable with this, just as not every man feels comfortable with playing the dominant, masculine role. If you ask me, these boxes are too rigid for most of us. I think that every member of society is brought up with them (to some degree at least), though, because these are simply our Western social norms, not just our private, family values.

[bree9991]

No, these were western social norms before WW2 and going back to recorded history. The last 30 years has made this blasphemy, hence why all the male commenters here are almost falling over themselves to apologize before they assert an opinion. If it were a 'social norm' now then everyone would be agreeing with it.

[Thresholds]

I don't disagree that egalitarianism has made some big strides via the women's movement in the past 100 years (let alone 30!), nor would I disagree that most educated people lean towards feminist positions today. But, I don't think either of these things have been sufficient for the squelching of sexism and the deeply ingrained cultural scripts and roles that Western society assigns to women and expects them to follow.

Schop's essay was unconventional and very contemptuous, even for its time.

[comicfan88]

To me, it would be strange that such an intelligent man, a genius, would say such random silly things about woman. I suppose, because of this (his reputation as genius), some things he says might be true, but after reading works like Mill "subjection of women" and mary Wollstonecraft "vindication of the rights of woman" one cannot but disagree with him in his central point.

[Thresholds]

Yeah, I think Mill is especially timely in this regard, since his essay and Schop's weren't very far apart at all. I really like Mill's essay, too.

I don't know Schop's bio all too well, but his attack on women always resonated with me as being rooted in a desire for revenge (revenge on the women that mattered to him or effected him and caused him to suffer throughout his life). I assume that his feelings towards women fluctuated regularly, since he was attracted to them.

[bree9991]

One could easily disagree with his 'central' point, if one doesn't insist on being central. The world isn't central. Animal and human instincts aren't always 'moderate' and 'nice'

They aren't random things, they are what every society has accepted as normal for time immorial up until the second world war and the 60's. (except for a few communist dictatorships)

The works you sight were written during political movements. They don't represent cultural&biological norms. Unless its 2010.

[comicfan88]

Schopenhauer essay while incorrect in certain aspects(this is because some of them must be understood in a socio-historical manner), still many of the arguments are hard to refute.

Like the argument about the fine arts, the one only a pride blind fool woould not accept.

Woman has never created a work of art of sublime qualities in literature, nor in painting, nor in music, etc.

[jonnyoaks]

man,the more you listen to this audio,the more it effects you.you start to see living proof of its truth in everyday life.

[ultrasynthetic]

I only wish he could separate the cultural inflection from the pure behavioral conclusion. However, props to him for speaking as bluntly as he has.

[floydianworld]

Interesting what he was saying about women committing perjury in court and should women be sworn in.

The feminist movement is proof if ever it were needed that women are consummate compulsive liars.

[WizardKing78]

@floydianworld It's ironic that women are generally perceived as paragons of virute and honesty. This is merely tesimony to their perennial dishonesty.

[mossfitz]

@WizardKing78 Haha! its amazing to see men still taking this diatribe seriously. Of course people will use cunning when education has been denied them - Whatever is needed to survive. Fact is these assertions can and have been tested and here S. is simply absurd and blind to the position women had been put into in his time.

[WizardKing78]

@mossfitz No, he's bang on money, and you know it.

[sbdwch]

@floydianworld The gay movement is proof that men are faggots.

[Tragedienne3]

No crime is for the benefit for society, be it for men or for women. Murder, rape and violence is anti-humane. Obedience to the law is for the benefit of ones own survival and happiness as much as the total survival of survival and happiness for humanity. Read up on evolutional theory. Women in western countries are economical self sufficiant since they excel in higher education. Men get sick, lonely and commit suicide when their female partner want to seprate or dies. Talk about who's in need.

[Tragedienne3]

Your statement doesn't follow reality. Men obsess over porno to the point of addiction, how primitive. If men really were superior in regard to a sense of justice, how does that combine with the lack of human character to be observed in the statistics of male criminals outnumbering female criminals. Also; where is the sense of justice in disregarding scientific knowledge in order to put one gender down in order to heighten YOUR self-worth? That's not justice; that's a fundamental defect in you.

[floydianworld]

Men have a desire to reproduce and if you are faced with a naked woman in front of you, you take notice. This is purely primal and evolutionary.

Porn hijacks this evolutionary desire and alot of women have gotten extremely rich in the process.

(Exploitation of male sexual desire is the constant of all [99%] commercially viable porn. Feminists argue about porn artists being raped as a child, being abused by managers, etc. but these are not constants.)

[MrJohnJamal]

Yes. However I already solved my lust for real females through moe.

[floydianworld]

In a proper Patriarchal society mass pornography and all it entails would not be allowed. Men are not sexual anarchists unlike women/feminists.

Recently in the Israeli parliament they voted to restrict explicit content on cable TV. Guess who voted against these restrictions: all the women elected to parliament.

It is only available because we live in a Feminist Matriarchy.

[floydianworld]

So your proposition is kind of stupid. You are expecting full use of men's strength and reason in a Matriarchal society where women make all the rules, which we live in.

This Matriarchy does not cater for their strengths or reason.

[jonnyoaks]

women.know you place

[theMAXILOPEZpsycho]

if only women could just accept these truths, we'd all be far happier

[peternolan9]

the guy is absolutely spot on...never heard a better description of women anywhere...listen to this men...this is what women are ALL about.

[dcikaruga]

Mencken wrote a few things about women too and you'd be surprised how much these two share.

[SamCocknose]

a shame such a great philosopher must shoot himself in the foot with this purely self-opinionated misogyny. Although even with such a bogus argument about women, he presents it very well and there seems to be something sound about it...I am glad Schopenhauer is wrong in this case, with his hate of women and I am glad such views are not accepted. I still however cannot help but assent to some of the things in his essay On Women, only because his argument highlights prejudices i admit i have.

[tonikmajor]

with all due respect,

the only way to truly appreciate his philosophy on the subject is to have been engaged in various intimate relations with women. and i cannot find much fault in his views. and even more, i do not go for the most classless of women.

and so, i dont see how you can assert that he is "wrong." in my opinion (based on my expierence), he is "approximate."

cheers

[SamCocknose]

I have met many types of women, that should be no surprise, since Schopenhauer is wrong to generalise a whole gender; since clearly through my experience, women are palpably different. Schopenhauer's fault is generality which leads him to a prejudice and a prejudice is a mal-judgement which I do not appreciate.

I can assert that he is wrong based on many facts; like how it has been shown how homosexual women display similar brain activity to heterosexual men. I have many examples however.

[tonikmajor]

i agree with you on that. but what is philosophy but a generalization of existence in general?

that said, i am usually not too harsh with philosophical assertions, in that philosophy, by its very nature, does not admit to any "truth."

[SamCocknose]

it is true existentialist philosophy is a generalisation, as you say; but when it comes to matters which do not by definition; have a surrounding, general idea, then to make an assertion (without evidence) is not very clever...

However, Schopenhauer is not the type to use empirical evidence, but tried to construct conclusions from his own opinions. In some cases I believe he does succeed with this, like in 'On Suicide' but here I just don't think his arguments make the cut...

[JeanBaptistePoquelin]

Bravo! Schopenhauer is surpassed only by Nietzsche and Otto Weininger when it comes to his radical anti-feminism.

[wahnano]

This is a true genius, no doubt.

[AnnaHeidiBourne]

Now that was a real Man. Where are they today? Nothing but freaks and pussies!

[tonikmajor]

LOL! that was awesome

[smurfieboo]

I agree!