Reason vs. Faith, Question 8 of 8 - Ayn Rand Institute

[vonGleichenT]

True there is no absolute. What I say goes.

[areyouazombie]

It's funny. Religion and GOD are two different things. Period. And all these people...who have all the answers...but didn't create themselves. Collossians 2:2-20

[jeffanie1984]

question 8 was the best asked and most poorly answered question of them all...

these guys still have alot of great ideas.

[progressxoverdue]

Awesome clip!

[MrChirpsky]

"Man's life" is the standard answer (again, I got that in before I heard the stock answer). Objectivists' also assume an intellectual monopoly on human nature making the philosophy self-affirming. That is, of course, where I, and many depart from it. Human nature is a vital (see Chomsky), but potentially very dangerous (see Foucault), notion (providing the ideational basis for a civilization's entire political/economic mechanism of eaters and eaten, riders and carriers).

[lucentenor]

Laura, did you go out and create a "chaos" and watch it for 16 billion years? The argument that because you don't know how, no one can eventually know how, and therefore only a God knows how is silly. Also, I care if we have morals because it is in our interest as rational beings to identify the good and the bad in reference to our own lives. Morality is important regardless of your religion or irreligion. Open up your mind, but judge critically.

[laurajdahl]

There is an absolute! You misread the Bible's message.. I recommend that you re-read it.. This world is also based on order and patterns..

Science without a creator is pure chaos. NOTHING is created out of chaos! Therefore, there IS a creator! Look at the science around us! Look at the order and energy things emulate. It is all based on a higher design. An intellect that WE can't comprehend and that is okay.

[knelson6599]

@laurajdahl Circular. You define order by the observation of our existing reality. No matter what reality looked like, we would call it "ordered" because that is what we know and have.

[laurajdahl]

Why have morals and values if there is no God or creator?! Who cares..... What's the point?!

[narcissusgray]

Because I am a conscious human being and I wish to live to pursue my own values. My survival is dependent upon my ability to think rationally, therefore any action I take which rejects reason or reality is self-detrimental.

[aznmaplemaster]

you morals are for you personally, if you can sleep comfortably after killing your mother then congratulations, you are so twisted you haven't even barely scratched the surface of what life is all about

[Sivels]

@laurajdahl Why live for a God when you can live for a government, or live for a group (something other than yourself) it's the same thing!

[RoulfYelrab]

I hate those obnoxious little smiles Dr. Brook and Dr. Ghate give each other. It's really annoying.

[Mohammed23100]

I f I am a thief and police or a court arrest me or stops me from stealling (or approaching) anything does it means that I am right and police is Wrong? These guys from AYN or whatever, they dont know what they are saying!!!

[gjsterp]

The formation of Community originally dictated morality.

The Eskimos, until recently, allowed visitors and friends to sleep with their wives. That was custom, or in our view a moral choice. For them it was a social choice.

Nakedness is another social choice, although the Christians would believe it to be a moral choice.

Cutting the skin from the end of one's penis?

Stupidity...

[jimmybox1999]

"Happiness is the object and design of our existence...That which is wrong under one circumstance, may be, and often is, right under another....This is the principle on which the government of heaven is conducted—by revelation adapted to the circumstances in which the children of the kingdom are placed. Whatever God requires is right, no matter what it is, although we may not see the reason thereof till long after the events transpire." -Joseph Smith

[thtrgremlin]

I think what many can't get over is that the bible is both written and interpreted by people. Any "loss in translation" is inconsequential. Religion is at the heart of what we call in culture today as "drama" and "propaganda" where people spread their ideas by attributing it to others to make it sound more credible. To be fair, all these people are saying "Rand this" or "Rand that" rather than "I believe". But whatever you are listening to, THINK; Rand, science, or Bible taken as dogma is wrong.

[Roannepur]

I can agree with most of your comment. I don't exactly think the objectivist philosophy is bad. However, things like the saying "rand this and that", I think they are merely trying to show respect or some admiration for her. Y'know when talking about Plato you don't go I believe. You go Plato this and that. I don't have the same mind as Rand but I'm indivual because I view what is moral on my own in choice. The only thing right on is her anxiom of her philosophy that all of us agree on.

[oscar7557]

but you must give credit where credit is due.

[preteristaynrand]

I see the problem now. You are confused because you believe going to church and listening/believing what they spew is God . Church attendance is not God. God is Truth. And parts of objectivism is truth. Search all things. Take hold of what is true. Discard the rest.

[LegalizeCapitalism]

actually i remove my comment, your being arbitrary and i find it boring. read the literature again.

[preteristaynrand]

I believe some parts of objectivism are true and therefore are from God .But not the whole of objectivism.

[preteristaynrand]

search all things. take hold of what is true. discard the rest.

[preteristaynrand]

I don't want to be "in your face" about these things. It is not my determination to negate anyone's mind. I do understand completely if you mean to say something like, " In the past and even today, it can be demonstrated that many religious organizations are guilty of promoting practices that teach men to negate their own minds." I understand that completely . If you said and believe that , well, haha, I would say I whole-heartedly agree with you my friend.

[preteristaynrand]

" I'll have to ask you to shut up now" hahaha

Is that because you are being confused by Truth?

It's a start! Who said, " It is better to be confused in the search of Truth than to be comfortable relying on falsehoods."? I am not negating man's mind by acknowledging God's presence. That is oxymoronic. How can I be negating when I am acknowledging? You are negating when you deny . Just because you have not realized God's presence yet does not make Him a non-entity.

[preteristaynrand]

The story of Abraham and his son is an isolated story of God's involvement with Abraham only. It is not a template for us today to take and now copy Abraham's experience by doing the same thing. The bible is not a list of things for us to do today. It is a list of things already done. Most christians are still waiting for prophecies to be fulfilled and fail to see that God has already fulfilled all He promised. That is one reason agnostics fail to realize God even exists.

[LegalizeCapitalism]

ill have to ask you to shut up now because you can't advocate objectivism while relying on illogical assumptions about non-entities that have no factual basis or any observable historical significance. There is no god, just the determination to negate mans mind in the practice of such nonsense.

[preteristaynrand]

and finally , objectivism may not be compatable with faith in christ, but objectivism is surely a product of the fulfillment of christ.

[LegalizeCapitalism]

you have observably no understanding of objectivism.

[preteristaynrand]

the bible is not a list of things to do . we are not to follow Abraham by contemplating killing our sons...the bible is a list of things already done. the bible is the story of God's fulfilled plan of redemption for mankind. Now the kingdom of God is with men. Keep the liberty God has given us. who needs faith in christ when one can have fulfillment in christ . check out preterism.

[2xtrbo]

Every society throughout history has had "thou shalt not kill" and "thou shalt not steal" but only Western society requires a God to tell them that. Others have come to this conclusion by using man's life as a standard of value. Take a look at the Code of Hammurabi, a pre-Hebrew tablet of commandments, that unlike the 10 Commandment tablets of the Bible, exists and is real.

[emolyn2006]

Are you trying to say that before the 10 commandments were given, that the Hebrews didn't consider murder, theft or perjury to be wrong?

[mrsnuggles2k2]

I guess you never heard of Nazi germany, any communist society, or the religion we call "Islam".

[bythebillionsuns]

yes let's look at the 2nd part of the myth of abraham and isaac. you are right, god ultimately staved off the human blood sacrifice, but god still required two sacrifices... one of blood,the ram, and the one of self, the willingness to put god's reasonless desires above ourselves. so you see that just because god stopped abraham's hand at the last moment, didn't lesson the doctrine of self sacrifice that is required by faith. altruism=evil

[emolyn2006]

Have you actually read the story of Abraham and Isaac? When Abraham departs with Isaac to climb up the mountain, he says to his servant WE'LL be back after WE worship. Abraham knew that one of two things would occur, God would provide a substitute (which happened) or that he would raise Isaac back from death. He could deduce this rationally because he knew two things: God is not a liar and God had previously promised that Isaac would have many descendants.

[vetteluvnh]

Congratulations emolyn, this is the answer of a true apologist! You should disregard the fact that murder is WRONG nomatter who is giving the order. What if it was an order to rape your child. Would you just blindly follow this command because god told you to. But hey...you know that god would provide you substitute to rape or he'd make your child have no memory of being raped, so it's ok. Most frightening, is to do something like this because a spooky voice in your head told you to!

[Satyahimsa]

The famous story of Abraham and Isaac, gentleman you have revealed half. Have you read the second part of the story? Does Isaac get sacrificed? How do you understand the second part of the story you come back to time and again?

[xdorian5]

"happiness" from science? Yeah, right.

He admits that we come into this world not knowing value or that we need value, but no where to get it.

His view of religion, and more specifically, Christianity is out of date.

Christianity trusts an external standard that knows the best operation of man, because that standard designed man.

"All things are permissible, but not all things are beneficial"

Christianity: instructions for finding objective value and human happiness!

[OnlyAisA]

Superb presentation of ideas by Yaron Brook, Onkar Ghate, and Leonard Peikoff in answering the questions. Thanks to Ayn Rand for her great brilliance.

[drummergrl225]

lol nice

[Wonderbread166]

Haha "Just kidding"

[texascanyon]

I am my own God and I got faith in myself. You can go use Alpha brain waves and it does what prayer does such as healing it is basicly the same thing,it is reality based.

[MnemoHistory]

Im glad to see this up. I would add that since GOD is a false concept , it is arbitrary to assert its existence. So on that position alone "faith in"GOD" is an arbitrary premise and has nothing to do with reason. Point out the mis-integrations and logical fallacies of the postulation of any GOD , and all the other points are superfluos.

[SeekExcellence]

What a great series. I'm looking forward to more.

[HankTorrents]

Do you know what I hate? Fucken idiot like you that say god doesnt exist and also the people that say god do exist, you cant fucken prove it leave the damn thing alone you stupied ass, assmuncher, monkeyloving dicks. I have only made two post on religion,one stating that yah I dont go to church but believe in the "Possibility" of a god, both you asses can't shut the hell up.Thats it I am shipping my self to the god damn center of the sun, that would be less painful then dealing with this ordeal

[GamblerJustice]

The video never stated god does NOT exist - nor did the comment you are replying to. What the video does however state is that there is no proof of a god and that the moral code derived from religion is wrong.

[WarVideo]

Great set of videos, hope your next set is about a proper foreign policy.

[tonydonadio]

Excellent answer to the question. The point that "god's whim as the standard of morality" is in fact a supernatural form of subjectivism was extremely well put. This is nicely contrasted to Ayn Rand's view of ethics is a science that derives from the metaphysical absolutism of natural law.

[funghizid]

these peeps gimme hope :)

[akinobjectivist]

I agree, Dr. Ghate is so focused on the technical and the practical in his explanations. I admire them both.

[dunkelhaven]

Dr. Ghate ist an excellent teacher. :)

[shovelcharge]

lol "kill your son!"..."just kidding!"