this phone sucks. dont buy it. ive had it for over a month and was only able to download 2 apps before the app store crashed.. now i cant download anymore. i can also no longer save any new contatct, after entering the name and number hitting 'save' im always met with a nice little 'Error Saving Contact' msg. and now the onle way to listen to music of talk on the phone itself is through the earphones. after searching on the internet, im not the only one whose had all this happen! Pre Sucks.
1. There aren't thousands of Asian men, only hundreds.
2. They aren't even all men.
3. The only reason they're Asian is because this reflects an Asian religion.
4. This is a beautiful commercial.
5. Quit saying stupid shit because you're an ignorant asshole that never has anything good to say about anything and is always trying to find things to bitch about and make lame, offensive jokes about you fuckheads.
Funny how I overclocked my palm pre to 800 mhz and it's not as fast as in that video, and you also can't customize which apps go in your taskbar thing.
when this phone fisrt came out like the first time a saw the ad i thought it was another version of the iphone i got all happy.... then i found out it was made by palm :(
this is literally the same girl and the same commercial. why do people like this one but think the others are creepy?? maybe people are afraid of serenity...
palm pre, it's like an army of chinese people working just for you. just think, it's like the opening ceremony of the 2008 olympic games on your phone.
Everything u mentioned is a valid point the only problems this phone has are terrible marketing schemes, the cramped ass keyboard and hardly anyone says the hardware is good all the praise is for the OS, I used to want it when it 1st came out then I messed with that keyboard (I'd much rather have a virtual keyboard then sore fingers)
I feel bad for all the sorry fools that this ad works for. More proof that smart phones are just meaningless technology for shallow conspicuous consumers.
A lot can be said about this video. Here goes: what's up with hundreds of Chinese bowing down to one American lady? Air this in China and you'll sure be called out as imperialist. Flick you finger and the Chinese moves accordingly? Is that a beautification of the sweatshop biz that brings us all the cool gadgets? Overall, this is just a lousy ad
I'm afraid you got it wrong, fingers08. The symbolism here is not thousands of Asians worshiping the white woman, but rather thousands of Asians competing in a synchronized dance competition to see which one gets to take the beautiful white slave home.
Thanks to Asia financing our debt we are all owned by the little brown people as it is, only this blond woman is seen by them as unusually beautiful, so they are dancing to see who gets to put her in their golden doghouse in the backyard.
It was neither creepy or fantastic. It was just more eye candy from the advertising world. If the plebes do not like this, then the ad has failed.
As far as being a plebeian, yes, I am and I see nothing shameful about it. However, anyone who mistakes this ad for either art or culture is the true philistine.
You make a good point about it failing because the plebes don't like it. Everything must be lowered to appeal to the dumbest common denominator, huh?
As for this not being art, I don't dismiss something merely because it is promoting a product. Capitalism has made the world a much better place.
Nobody knows this better than the Chinese, as they still have one foot in the depths of poverty, where one finds communist fantasies of pure communal altruism and a vilification of art for profit.
Well aren't you a pseudo intellectual. I am inclined to agree with you though, I quite enjoy these ads and it makes me laugh even more that they are being called "creepy". I have only seen them on youtube due to not watching TV but I picked up a Pre on launch date. It has been giving me a few problems lately.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
If I buy this phone, do I get a faggot albino slave who talks too much, and do I get dancing chinese people? That fatass black plastic dildo can never top the iPhone.
1. Erogonomics - the Pre contours the head and face, iPhone doesn't (that's a big miss for Apple!)
2. WebOS - way more cool app's and stuff will appear on the Pre, in no less than 12-18 months these will equal/more than what's available on the iPhone)
3. Physical QWERTY keyboard - 50/50 on whether a user will want it, but it's there, hidden away - very stealth and cool!
4. Sprint give a MUCH better deal on the service plan i.e. all-in for $19.99/month!!!! The iPhone service plan is PUNITIVE!!
One thing: you are a fanatic and an extremist willing to kill yourself in the name of Apple and Steve Jobs. People like you are dangerous and a stain in mankind's history. If a simple phone turned you into a mindless drone then you are evil and your house must be invaded by marines to bring democracy to your family.
jbrandonf i noticed your comment about how they are just trying to sell you something yea is that not what ad's are for generally? And as if iphone doesnt run the same fucking ad 30 times a day and also, thats all you see on the internet. I also saw how you said sprint doesnt give a shit about your "people network". Yea that must be right seeing how sprint saves you money by charging you $100 for everything while at&t charges $160. Why dont you get off your iphone and do something with your life
sorry i don't have time, i'm going fishing with a few mates. you know what fishing is don't you? it's where you actually leave the house and go get a line wet. you've probably seen it in the movies or played it on your nintentdo wii. fresh air, you should try it some time. turn your iphone off for a week and see how much you idolize technology... but seriously if you want to go fishing sometime let me know, i'd be more than happy to show you how to live a purposeful, rewarding existence.
i don't mean to bud into the conversation or anything, but jbrandonf take his advice and go fishing. and so you don't get lost, use you're iPhone's GPS capability. and when you catch a fish, use an iPhone app to tell you which fish it is that you caught! : D oh and just so you don't step in poison ivy, well... lets just say there's an app for that! Oh and also just in case you don't remember where you parked your car, there's an app for that! PCE
you'd be pretty ignorant to think buying a fucking phone will change your life. does it make and receive calls? yes. does it send and receive text? yes. stop being a drone for the capitalist juggernaught, spend your money on travel or education, broaden your horizons, do something wholesome and generally fulfilling instead of wasting you life worshipping the latest ring tone or flashy gadget. look up 'designed obsolescence' in google and learn a thing or two about technology these days.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
You're a grade-A asshole. I did come here assuming anything would change my life. iPhone changed the cell industry, stupid ass. Nobody here is dazzled by a ringtone or gadget. I happen to like gadgets, what's it to you if I admire some videos on youtube. You sit here and act like you know me. Go fuck yourself. And get off the computer while you're at it. BTW, I'll google your little source just so you can sleep tonight....from my iPhone. :-)
that's ok you fucked up your first response too but i let it slide (i think you meant "you'd be pretty ignorant NOT to realize").... fucking clueless... there is no tangible existence in idolising technology, take your iphone out of your arse, it won't smell like roses.
Yes, my first response was botched, still, you don't seem to be adressing my points. Again, you don't know anything about me, and are assuming I idolize technology now. God, you must be great at parties, but I have a feeling you have a hard time with people.
I wish I could think of some witty retort to the whole iPhone-in-ass thing, but I don't know why my phone would be in my ass... figuratively or literally. Why don't you get off the computer and make some friends? Google "Hitch". :-)
I would say it's pretty weak.. Dunno why, the dancers should have some sort of big impact or so, but it's just nothing special for me.. I don't feel wow'ed.
anyway, do you know the song in the background? :)
Very pretty and meaningful, but lacks some cold hard facts about the Pre. This is why the iPhone ads are so good- they show you what you can actually do and how easy it is to do...
Suberb! The rings of pople represents your people network and the movements are inspired in on WebOS. The linked circles at the end represent some kind of conjuction of all Pré features in a perfect mather. Awesome!
fuck off they are just trying to sell you something! they couldn't give a shit about your 'people network'. google the term 'designed obsolescence' and learn something about how the world works today...
Love for M83!!!
LittleFishChan 3 weeks ago
hìhí_î_fèÊl_sô_lõNËlÿ_töÐáý
BabyyuuLuiseau355 8 months ago
M83!!! this phone sucks though.
JacobTIH 11 months ago
awesome ad, people as a radio signal and in the same time as a people around us.
luizsiqueiraneto 11 months ago
vampires cant go into sunlight. WTF!?
kuzco0730 1 year ago
its not alice in wonderland.. its alice in Tarsem's world, he happens to also be the director of "The Cell" and "The Fall".. great films
ghost278 1 year ago
this phone sucks. dont buy it. ive had it for over a month and was only able to download 2 apps before the app store crashed.. now i cant download anymore. i can also no longer save any new contatct, after entering the name and number hitting 'save' im always met with a nice little 'Error Saving Contact' msg. and now the onle way to listen to music of talk on the phone itself is through the earphones. after searching on the internet, im not the only one whose had all this happen! Pre Sucks.
traviss46 1 year ago
@traviss46 Update the fucking phone then. I had the same problems, So I updated the phone. Now the phone runs perfectly.
imalucario110 1 year ago
what song was used ?
jasjindersinghdhesi 1 year ago
"Lower Your Eyelids to Die with the Sun" by M83
marvinmetzner 1 year ago
I fucking hate all of you.
1. There aren't thousands of Asian men, only hundreds.
2. They aren't even all men.
3. The only reason they're Asian is because this reflects an Asian religion.
4. This is a beautiful commercial.
5. Quit saying stupid shit because you're an ignorant asshole that never has anything good to say about anything and is always trying to find things to bitch about and make lame, offensive jokes about you fuckheads.
Great ad.
CoreyForeside 1 year ago
@CoreyForeside you are so stupid man...
flandriack 1 year ago
@flandriack You're the common YouTube loser. Find something good to say every once in a while.
CoreyForeside 1 year ago
alice in wonderland
Wacowaco96 1 year ago
got my pre yesterday...love it. and yes it does FLOW...
unrulyearth 1 year ago
Funny how I overclocked my palm pre to 800 mhz and it's not as fast as in that video, and you also can't customize which apps go in your taskbar thing.
kdecius 1 year ago
@kdecius yes u can customize which app go in your task bar ive had a pre for a while and i figured that out the 1st day i got it
cyraxandflyraxHaters 1 year ago
And that's why they were purchased by HP at a donation price.
DjYuhin 1 year ago
They screwed up with the keyboard, it should be horizontal like the Verizon Droid phones.
Chnamanjx 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
music/song: M83 - Lower Your Eyelids to Die with the Sun
YouTube vid ID: /watch?v=K2xqBP3LSa8
JPMorgan900 1 year ago
Comment removed
JPMorgan900 1 year ago
what a waste of money! no wonder they are going broke!
doyleoliver 1 year ago
Looks good. Except the ugly model they used in the ad.
alex9044 1 year ago
This add is amazing!!
TheTechDaily 1 year ago
just in case anyone is wondering the song is called Lower Your Eyelids to Die With the Sun.
i heard the song last night randomly and when i first saw this i was wondering what the song was. so glad i found it
mattwatchesvids 2 years ago 3
M83!!!
Love M83. Possibly the only artist I will rush out and buy a CD of
greatone1987 1 year ago
its funny how people freak out about a simple freaking ad.....its actually kind of stupid.
iLprd91 2 years ago
when this phone fisrt came out like the first time a saw the ad i thought it was another version of the iphone i got all happy.... then i found out it was made by palm :(
camthesciencekid123 2 years ago
this is literally the same girl and the same commercial. why do people like this one but think the others are creepy?? maybe people are afraid of serenity...
alex3erynys 2 years ago 3
Been done before.
pathguns 2 years ago
Every time I watch this Ad my throat start to hurt, that's how awesome it is. So perfect, like a masterpiece of art.
5/5
Venezuela305 2 years ago 15
its also very futuristic
VenusSatanas 2 years ago
I quite like this advert, its simplistic. But sticks in your mind.
joneseyuk 2 years ago 5
CAN someone tell what the the BACKGROUND MELODY is please!! thanks :) x
ZJoeZ44 2 years ago
M83 - Lower you eyelids to die with the sun
jonathanbranthwaite 2 years ago
to be honest im not interested in the phone but just listen to that drumming....
eternaljimmyjim 2 years ago
palm pre, it's like an army of chinese people working just for you. just think, it's like the opening ceremony of the 2008 olympic games on your phone.
enigomatic 2 years ago
wtf is with this? why is it all asian people?
that's so stereotypical and racist.
Sabrina7722772 2 years ago
@Sabrina7722772
OMG I swear it is... That's what I was thinking the whole time!
blackcatbone 1 year ago
palm is cheap sucky phone whos tryng to reach iphones lvl
iPuhelin 2 years ago
Comment removed
MrTitan7000 2 years ago
1. it takes multitouch to a whole new level
2. it was built to multitask
3. slide out qwerty ketboard (not an annoying touch keyboard tht u make mistakes on)
4. 3 megapixels compared to iphone's 2 meg
5 . it combines inboxes and contacts from exchange gmail, facebook and more!
6. you can google with out opening the browser
this phone killed slash tht murdered the iphone!
MrTitan7000 2 years ago
what do you think about the new nokia n900?
XXchillioXX 2 years ago
Everything u mentioned is a valid point the only problems this phone has are terrible marketing schemes, the cramped ass keyboard and hardly anyone says the hardware is good all the praise is for the OS, I used to want it when it 1st came out then I messed with that keyboard (I'd much rather have a virtual keyboard then sore fingers)
sajohnson09 1 year ago
lol 1000 chinease slaves getting paid 50 cents each for this whole commercial
SnipeDroid 2 years ago
i always thought she was naked in her videos
Dante2008Allen 2 years ago
lol i swear i did too
MrTitan7000 2 years ago
I feel bad for all the sorry fools that this ad works for. More proof that smart phones are just meaningless technology for shallow conspicuous consumers.
LethalGopher 2 years ago
Aren't thousands of dancing asian men a little much for A FUCKING PHONE COMMERICAL!!!?????
EnergyDrinks666 2 years ago 2
you must be a retard
Dante2008Allen 2 years ago
this one is much better than senseless ad before
dodow1234 2 years ago
hey this one isn't creepy!
Sivant 2 years ago
Honestly this look like a " think green... " ad to me O-o. It's an awesome ad but seriously does not well represent palm pre.
Mappy4ever 2 years ago
They're all her twitter followers...
skitterrusty 2 years ago 16
hahaha too cute!
marani1970 2 years ago
the phone sucks
luislps29 2 years ago
A lot can be said about this video. Here goes: what's up with hundreds of Chinese bowing down to one American lady? Air this in China and you'll sure be called out as imperialist. Flick you finger and the Chinese moves accordingly? Is that a beautification of the sweatshop biz that brings us all the cool gadgets? Overall, this is just a lousy ad
fingers08 2 years ago 7
I'm afraid you got it wrong, fingers08. The symbolism here is not thousands of Asians worshiping the white woman, but rather thousands of Asians competing in a synchronized dance competition to see which one gets to take the beautiful white slave home.
Thanks to Asia financing our debt we are all owned by the little brown people as it is, only this blond woman is seen by them as unusually beautiful, so they are dancing to see who gets to put her in their golden doghouse in the backyard.
TulliusVII 2 years ago 5
wow poetic justice....so well said.
marani1970 2 years ago
i kno huh?
MrTitan7000 2 years ago
LOL! They wouldnt have done it with thousands of black men.
angel2901 2 years ago 7
beautiful.
Shaolin, the making of this commercial was crazy
hyrulehero6325 2 years ago
The phone must be amazing to pick up internet signal in the middle of no where on a rock.
anthonytheperson 2 years ago 3
No wonder the world isn't a more artistic place. You all think this is creepy? Even the baby is freaky? Albino Slave?
You people are really plebeians. This commercial is fantastic. Go back to your Jon and Kate and your American Idol you motley mob of philistines.
Nudiford 2 years ago 3
It was neither creepy or fantastic. It was just more eye candy from the advertising world. If the plebes do not like this, then the ad has failed.
As far as being a plebeian, yes, I am and I see nothing shameful about it. However, anyone who mistakes this ad for either art or culture is the true philistine.
Quankers 2 years ago
You make a good point about it failing because the plebes don't like it. Everything must be lowered to appeal to the dumbest common denominator, huh?
As for this not being art, I don't dismiss something merely because it is promoting a product. Capitalism has made the world a much better place.
Nobody knows this better than the Chinese, as they still have one foot in the depths of poverty, where one finds communist fantasies of pure communal altruism and a vilification of art for profit.
Nudiford 2 years ago
As art, this ad sucks.
As a promotion of a product, this ad sucks.
What I said is true because on the internet only my opinion matters.
therealsuperhobo 2 years ago 3
I think you are full of hot gas.
Quankers 2 years ago
What are you, a fish? Of course we're full of hot gas... we're human.
Nudiford 2 years ago
Well aren't you a pseudo intellectual. I am inclined to agree with you though, I quite enjoy these ads and it makes me laugh even more that they are being called "creepy". I have only seen them on youtube due to not watching TV but I picked up a Pre on launch date. It has been giving me a few problems lately.
m4gnutz 2 years ago 2
EVEN THE BABY IS FREAKY! its like they are doing this on purpose haha
SiddifOnline 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
i have bus ramming inside my head!!
it destroys my head from inside out.... and all my sense is packed into that bus..... if it gets away...
what lil sense i got left is getting away with the bus!!
why is they trying to leave me all the time?!?!
wat should i doo???
footage82 2 years ago
Definitely like the Sprint Ads better, they almost make me want to stay with Sprint and dole out sympathy for them. This it's just creepy.
quinnsans 2 years ago
this ad campaign really irritates me for some reason, I think its that all this existential shit does not belong in the ad for a phone.
Biffcutwtright 2 years ago
Yeah, like she's getting coverage in the middle of nowhere //s
Princess101Chik 2 years ago
So this is a girls phone?
BoatRepairMan 2 years ago
I want to hit her for trying to sound smart.
Kvnjnsn0 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
If I buy this phone, do I get a faggot albino slave who talks too much, and do I get dancing chinese people? That fatass black plastic dildo can never top the iPhone.
HaZedViZion 2 years ago
They Shouldn't have used an ugly Girl who looks like Macaulay Culkin.
Makes me never want to get this phone.
DaCanary 2 years ago
Hey, Lakai Fully Flared intro song. Awesome.
weech0 2 years ago
obviously a rip off of what they saw in the Beijing olympics opening ceremony.
Medsas 2 years ago
I'm assuming that when you buy a Palm Pre, you're also given a supply of LSD?
christophermcbreen 2 years ago 7
LOL
supermanxevan 2 years ago
it's a cult!
moriya2k2 2 years ago
finally a phone by albinos, for albinos
jnorris441 2 years ago
So if I buy it do I get a bunch of Chinese people to dance around me too?
samiiowns 2 years ago 3
yes
billybobthortansbro 2 years ago
HAHAHAHHAHAHHAA.
josephgrovers 2 years ago
Hey it's m83! I forgot I had this song, and I was looking for it!
YvesIsaki 2 years ago
thats the lakai fully flared intro song
Quakey55 2 years ago 2
Like Justine said, Palm Pre=Palm Poop.
iPhone rules ALL!
There is nothing good about this phone that could EVER beat the iPhone. NAME ONE THING!!!!
joewillgo 2 years ago
1. Erogonomics - the Pre contours the head and face, iPhone doesn't (that's a big miss for Apple!)
2. WebOS - way more cool app's and stuff will appear on the Pre, in no less than 12-18 months these will equal/more than what's available on the iPhone)
3. Physical QWERTY keyboard - 50/50 on whether a user will want it, but it's there, hidden away - very stealth and cool!
4. Sprint give a MUCH better deal on the service plan i.e. all-in for $19.99/month!!!! The iPhone service plan is PUNITIVE!!
TortureIsTerrorism 2 years ago
It doesn't break after 1 month of use.
Nosferatsu 2 years ago
The iPhone lasts longer then a month HEAVEY HAND
joewillgo 2 years ago
One thing: you are a fanatic and an extremist willing to kill yourself in the name of Apple and Steve Jobs. People like you are dangerous and a stain in mankind's history. If a simple phone turned you into a mindless drone then you are evil and your house must be invaded by marines to bring democracy to your family.
PrometeumYT 2 years ago
Youtube should do something about you strange hippy's
joewillgo 2 years ago
mines coming this week woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot!!
Xcon540 2 years ago
OH so verizon has the network people following you, and if you get AT&T you get monks following you around?
BlackBerryHELPER 2 years ago
They copied the song from fully flared
ABflyersk8r 2 years ago
I don't really get this ad with all of the monks and everything...
emoflipsan 2 years ago 3
jbrandonf i noticed your comment about how they are just trying to sell you something yea is that not what ad's are for generally? And as if iphone doesnt run the same fucking ad 30 times a day and also, thats all you see on the internet. I also saw how you said sprint doesnt give a shit about your "people network". Yea that must be right seeing how sprint saves you money by charging you $100 for everything while at&t charges $160. Why dont you get off your iphone and do something with your life
dhose94 2 years ago 3
sorry i don't have time, i'm going fishing with a few mates. you know what fishing is don't you? it's where you actually leave the house and go get a line wet. you've probably seen it in the movies or played it on your nintentdo wii. fresh air, you should try it some time. turn your iphone off for a week and see how much you idolize technology... but seriously if you want to go fishing sometime let me know, i'd be more than happy to show you how to live a purposeful, rewarding existence.
natedizzle83 2 years ago
i don't mean to bud into the conversation or anything, but jbrandonf take his advice and go fishing. and so you don't get lost, use you're iPhone's GPS capability. and when you catch a fish, use an iPhone app to tell you which fish it is that you caught! : D oh and just so you don't step in poison ivy, well... lets just say there's an app for that! Oh and also just in case you don't remember where you parked your car, there's an app for that! PCE
joshdawall 2 years ago 3
The first smart phone exclusively for vaginas.
usedbymyusername 2 years ago
fucking phone companies selling shit like it's going to change the world.
natedizzle83 2 years ago
LMAO
FROG55JQN 2 years ago
While I think this commercial was a little...dramatic..you'd be pretty ignorant to realize how much has changed since the iPhone came out?
jbrandonf 2 years ago
you'd be pretty ignorant to think buying a fucking phone will change your life. does it make and receive calls? yes. does it send and receive text? yes. stop being a drone for the capitalist juggernaught, spend your money on travel or education, broaden your horizons, do something wholesome and generally fulfilling instead of wasting you life worshipping the latest ring tone or flashy gadget. look up 'designed obsolescence' in google and learn a thing or two about technology these days.
natedizzle83 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
You're a grade-A asshole. I did come here assuming anything would change my life. iPhone changed the cell industry, stupid ass. Nobody here is dazzled by a ringtone or gadget. I happen to like gadgets, what's it to you if I admire some videos on youtube. You sit here and act like you know me. Go fuck yourself. And get off the computer while you're at it. BTW, I'll google your little source just so you can sleep tonight....from my iPhone. :-)
jbrandonf 2 years ago
Oops, excuse me, *didn't come here assuming...
jbrandonf 2 years ago
that's ok you fucked up your first response too but i let it slide (i think you meant "you'd be pretty ignorant NOT to realize").... fucking clueless... there is no tangible existence in idolising technology, take your iphone out of your arse, it won't smell like roses.
natedizzle83 2 years ago
Yes, my first response was botched, still, you don't seem to be adressing my points. Again, you don't know anything about me, and are assuming I idolize technology now. God, you must be great at parties, but I have a feeling you have a hard time with people.
I wish I could think of some witty retort to the whole iPhone-in-ass thing, but I don't know why my phone would be in my ass... figuratively or literally. Why don't you get off the computer and make some friends? Google "Hitch". :-)
jbrandonf 2 years ago
now we have some rich shaolin monks
purecussion 2 years ago
same song from Lakai fully flared intro
Guitarmaster332 2 years ago
type in youtube for a better ad "its a big ad" trust me you'll like it
insanic1 2 years ago
Wow that ad pwned ^.^
As far as I know that never played here in the states, so thanks for that.
Truthiness231 2 years ago
sorry, just found out:
M83 - Lower your eyelids to die with the sun
=)
BaltasMykolas 2 years ago
I would say it's pretty weak.. Dunno why, the dancers should have some sort of big impact or so, but it's just nothing special for me.. I don't feel wow'ed.
anyway, do you know the song in the background? :)
BaltasMykolas 2 years ago
Very pretty and meaningful, but lacks some cold hard facts about the Pre. This is why the iPhone ads are so good- they show you what you can actually do and how easy it is to do...
grahamlord86 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Music: M83 - Lower Your Eyelids To Die With The Sun
mscholtus 2 years ago
Comment removed
mscholtus 2 years ago
thats Tamara Hope from that horrible disney channel movie stepsister from planet weird! she looks soo much hotter now!
izzy1290 2 years ago
third omg!
DjUmKuE 2 years ago
Suberb! The rings of pople represents your people network and the movements are inspired in on WebOS. The linked circles at the end represent some kind of conjuction of all Pré features in a perfect mather. Awesome!
pedronunogarcia 2 years ago
fuck off they are just trying to sell you something! they couldn't give a shit about your 'people network'. google the term 'designed obsolescence' and learn something about how the world works today...
natedizzle83 2 years ago 3
yes off course they are tring to sell me something, and what?
pedronunogarcia 2 years ago
Breathtaking!
soloman747 2 years ago