The definition of MY marriage: None of your business.
The definition of your multiple marriages, divorces, and unmarried sex partners: None of MY business.
The definition of "Freedom"?? Go find something to do that doesn't involve sitting around the house all day worrying about who other people are getting married to.
I don't care what the bible says. Don't waste your breath, nor my time.
@rumours77 So if I understand you correctly, you believe that there should not be any parameters on marriage. So it's cool for polygamy, adults and kids, humans and animals, etc. Hopefully this helps you to understand why the state gets involved.
@rumours77 Well that's inconsistant with your previous comment. But I would agree with that in a general sense, however, it's pretty hard for the state to monitor "lust of the flesh", and there are some circumstances when divorce is legit. As far as fornication and adultery go, 100% wrong 100% of the time. (in my opinion) Sadly it seems like more and more politicians, and lawmakers are guilty of all of the above. The governator is a classic example.
The state can easily monitor "the lust of the flesh". All they have to do is make it illegal for women (and I guess, men) to walk around in public half-naked. Make sure you are covered from head to toe, and boom!! No more lust. The only time divorce is legit (according to the Book of 1st Corinthians) is in the event of Adultery. No Adultery, No Divorce.
100% against Fornication?? Cool.....make it illegal.
@rumours77 I think that's the philosophy in Islam, but unfortunately the problem of lust doesn't exist because of clothing.The problem is in me, and you, and anyone because of the sin nature that we all inherited.But I agree that clothing helps avoid lust to a degree. Also I dont like Churches that dont address this issue while the women and girls are dressed like they're goin clubbin, with booty shorts with (juicy) on em n stuff. When I see those juicy shorts, I think juicy=diahrea. It helps.
@Xiolablu3 I never made a blanket statement like that "reproduction feelings are sin". if you read the thread, you'll understand the context. For example, if you're having "reproduction feelings" for a child, or a woman other than you're wife, it would behoove you to recognize those feelings as "wrong", and reject the impulse. If you think that any impulse is worthy of responding to, than you are the one who has some major issues in your "soul and mind". Use your brain.
NOTHING in nature says a MAN and a WOMAN -or two men or women - must be together forever. MARRIAGE IN ANY FORM IS NOT NATURAL, as hunger or thirst are. It is a civil/religious contract INVENTED by men.
If it were natural, no contracts would be necessary, and there would be no divorces. Our liberty to be with whoever we want, for as long as we want must be respected. I don't need anyone to tell me -or approve- who I can or cannot love, just like no one can tell me when to feel thirsty or hungry.
lets see 98 thousand people die in hospitals from mistakes in usa every year, one thousand children drown each year in usa, ten thousand children die in car accidents each year in usa and a attention horror like this turd supports sending billions to other countrys instead of fixing whats bad here in usa
you know it is funny how everyone want us to except gay marriages but yet, they still don't like the fact that a black woman can never be seen with an eligiable european man, thats just too far. ....bastards
Gay marriage has nothing to do with equal rights. Someone with a homosexual orientation in Alabama has the same right to marry as someone with a straight orientation. Any eligible man may marry any eligible woman, no matter of orientation. The issue is not gay rights. The issue is trying to redefine marriage to get society to accept homosexuality.
@SaudaraLink My apologies, I wasn't trying to deny that. I was referring to the illegality here for two men or two women to get married. My point was that BOTH society's beliefs AND the laws concerning gay marriage need to be changed, not one or the other.
@XXDanyAlfXX I think you left something out of the sentence. Marriage has a meaning. It is a not a union between a woman and a tree, a man and a dog, a parent and child, etc. You can love your tree, your dog, your Mom, etc. That doesn't mean you should get married to that person. Marriage is a union between a man and a woman. Why do people want to call other things 'marriage' in the first place? Why not reject the institution of marriage rather than trying to change it.
@SaudaraLink whit all the respect you deserve thats just stupid its different and true love not just fisical love or just caring about something like you care for your dog i mean real love and youre supposed to get married to your most important person whit out caring the look , skills or even sex......................and about marrige was orriginally concived to join families together in orther to protec the power (kings, queens, etc) so maybe that shouldnt change either , look i ramble to much
@XXDanyAlfXX There are two reasons the government should recognized marriage. One is religion and tradition, a reason many governments throughout history have recognized it. The other is establishing inheritance. Men and women can produce children together. Children born in the marriage are considered children and therefore heirs. This is a pragmatic reason for a secular state to recognize marriage. Same sex couples do not produce children with one another.
@SaudaraLink so what about sterile couples that kind of couples according to you shouldnt marrige because they cant have children.... look marrige is for me a commitment to the person you love and for some people a commitment to god to spend the life in the good and in the bad times whit you love one. so i cant see why homosexual people cant do that
@XXDanyAlfXX God has revealed His endorsement of marriage between a man and a woman (in a lot of cases, exceptions are incest, etc.) He has also revealed His disdain for homosexual sex, beastiality, incest, adultery, fornication, and various other sexual sins.
really thats your argument god hate to homosexual?? i hardly doubt that i dont get it why loving someone from the same sex is a sin, i hardly doubt that god in its all mighty and glory is going to doom you only for loving someone. and i hope you not come whit the god create man and women and all that crap.............................
@XXDanyAlfXX What I said is that God made known His disdain for homosexual sex. If youw ant to redefine marriage, why not allow it for a brother, sister, father, mother, and third cousin who all love each other and let them all consumate a group marriage? That is not marriage, it is incest. Marriage has a definition.
@SaudaraLink WTF??? youre comparing homosexual love whit family love you sick!! if you think that someone who likes someone of the same sex is something weird and sick like incest youre the one who haves problem. and cant understand a shit about anything
@SaudaraLink God loves the world so much that He sent His only Son to die for us all. That includes homosexuals. The Bible says of those who do homosexual acts, and other sinners, whose sins have been forgiven through Christ. "And such WERE some of you, but now ye are washed, now ye are sanctified, and now ye are justified, in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God." Is it love to try to keep someone in a destructive sin, on the road to damnation?
@XXDanyAlfXX Why do you need the government to endorse your love for anyone? The government has a practical reason for recognizing real marriages, but no good reason for recognizing gay marriage. God instituted marriage. Why do you want to make a commitment before god if you are just going to make up your own god? Why invent a god that isn't real to commit to? If you believe in God, then do what He says.
@SaudaraLink oh so homosexual make up a god thats what youre saying??? and no god never instituted marrige i dont remember jesus marrying or why dont you tell me i didnt know you where gods right hand to know all that god want or dislike you just belive what angry people say to you and u keep telling god disdain homosexual but gods didnt have any human felling like hate "disdain" , jelous but yeah sure he hate homosexual people thats what happen whit religious people they contradict themself
@XXDanyAlfXX God has revealed His will through prophets. You can't make God endorse what you want. Btw, Christ did teach on marriage, where eh talked about MAN and WOMAN, and repeated 'Two shall be one flesh.' Not all homosexuls make up their own god, and not all who make up their own god are homosexuals. You are the one talking about making commitments before God that do not please God, based on what God has revealed. I haven't said anything about God hating homosexuals.
@SaudaraLink wait a minute i say commiment to the person you love and for some people to god too dont try to twist my words yes you do you say god hate them thats what you want to think thats what all want to think so they can belive they are better than some people. youre just a hipocryt
@XXDanyAlfXX You put words in my mouth again. i wrote of God's disdain for homosexual sex. Can you even think of one reason to think that homosexual sex is not immoral? What purpose would homosexual 'marriage' serve in society? No good purpose. Homosexual sex is not the only sin. Lying, theft, murder, hatred of your brother, fornication, adultery, not honoring your parents. All sins, all worthy of God's judgment. God has mercy, though on those who recieve forgiveness through faith in His Son.
@SaudaraLink well if i have to married whit someone just to "serve the society" i wouldnt do it. you miss the point of marrige everytime you to try to deffend religous people in their hate. so what you say is that is youre a homosexual you have to options 1 dont belive in god and 2 make your god. thats pretty much what youre saying and thats just stupid
@XXDanyAlfXX Again, you are putting words in my mouth. You really have bought into the rhetoric of those who think that people who speak out against this form of sexual immorality are motivated by 'hate.' Btw, you keep leaving out words. I am a 'heterosexual' happily married man.
@XXDanyAlfXX If you loved someone about to fall off a cliff into Hell, would you keep silent so you wouldn't hurt their feelings? Is that love? Telling people that something immoral is immoral is not hate.
@SaudaraLink no it isnt inmoral why you keep up whit that love is love it doesnt matter if its a boy or a girl why you dont understand that ??............ and so now you go directly to hell youre are no one to tell that kind of thing you dont know god you dont know his will you dont know his intentions and if you think you know him youre just stupid
@XXDanyAlfXX Love is love? Would you apply that statement to pedophiles as well? Would you say that since it is love between a 5 year old and a 30 years old, it is okay? That's silly. Genuine love does not make something moral; homosexuality is wrong regardless of how two men or women genuinely feel. We know God's will with regard to this issue because he has made it clear in scripture, substantiated as credible via legitimate historical methodology. Sorry you do not like it.
@rumblefishism no god say he dont want people to be lujurious in bed actually in the bible say someone that its gay since he she is born he-she should be respected and tread whit care totally the oposite of what youre doing
@XXDanyAlfXX I can barely comprehend what you've written because your grammar is so terrible. If you are claiming that being born homosexual makes the behavior morally permissible, and that such a position is supported biblically, then you are way off base.
@rumblefishism haha well english is not my home language anyway stop writting to me you get into somebody else conversation and just start sending hate words to me or what i belive figthing to u seems useless to me so stop doing that
@SaudaraLink wearing different kinds of fabric together is a 'sin' eating shellfish is a sin
but accordiong to your interpretation of the bible, you should have your children to the town square and have them stoned to death if they dissobey you
@XXDanyAlfXX Some pple think, 'choose the religion that's right for you adn reality is sure to follow' but that doesn't make sense. Btw, I did not say God hated homosexuals. I mentioned God's disdain for homosexual sex, IN regard to male homosexuality, God has revealed that it is an abomination. The BIble has a lot to say about God's feelings. Those who say that God has no feelings are influenced by neo-Platonism or other philosphies. this idea does nto come from the Bible.
@SaudaraLink no god disdain any can of sex that didnt have reproduction meaning so we all are doom according to you every human been that have a sexual intercorse whit out having children is doom if you want to think it like that plus if god is going to disdain someone just for loving someone of the same sex well thats their problem people born like that you know they cant change that so if god is that stupid i want to be disdain too but no people make god look stupid and hatefull
equal rights for every one lets see shawn peen has fought for them in wars oh wait no he didnt, he all talk and some else do the fighting typical puke
@tomanyasses I'm not gay actually, Its just that I don't see how two gay people getting married effects anyones lives. Now if you can answer the question that would be great, instead of simply remarking like a smart ass.
@StirItUP1973 no your trying to get me to think for you are to say something so you can make your troll comments ,amazing you have same political crap talk as the rest
I don't know why people vote against gay marriage. Two men or two women getting married does not effect my life at all. And it won't effect the lives of anyone who votes against it.
1. people choose to be polyamorists.. therefore if they choose to be in multiple relationships then thats fine, but they have to deal with the fact that these relationships will not be legally recognised. being gay however is not something people choose, and therefore it is wrong to discriminate against them on the basis of who they are.
2. your pet can not consent to marrying you. two gay people can consent to marrying each other, provided they are over the age of 18.
1) no double standard: a poly person can be sexually satisfied by one partner. a gay person can't be sexually satisfied by a partner of the opposite sex.
2) i dont recall using the term gay gene, in fact i agree environmental factors probably do play a substantial role.. i don't see how you equate this to it being a choice that the individual has consciously made. environmental factors influence intelligence, peole dont choose to be intelligent or not... also there are no straight babies either
1. well she sounds more bisexual to me.. i am fully gay and have dated girls in the past however our relationships always broke up because you cant have sex with a floppy dick. sorry for being so graphic, but its the honest truth. girls just do not turn me on sexually, and i would say that is the way it is for the majority of gay people.
2. i never said 'born gay' if you read my original response, i simply said it is not something people choose.. i also said people arent born straight.
1. she is bisexual, but has strong leanings toward women, emotionally as well as sexually.
2. saying i have no choice does not mean born that way. just say a kid never gets any education, he will therefore probably be below average intelligence. he was not necessairly born dumber than everyone else, but due to factors outside his control he is now something he can not help.
3. it is a civil rights issue as i am being punished for who i am, something i didnt choose and cant change
i really just dont understand how you think that environmental factors as opposed to genetic programming means gay people choose it.. that just really doesnt make sense.. i have been attracted to guys since i was like 5. so your point about me choosing it is redundant.
anyway lets just agree to disagree.. i know that in the future we will get equal rights. most of the people in my generation are completely accepting of it. :)
going by your logic people who are born into poor families choose to be poor.. because there is no "poor gene", therefore it is a choice.. that just simply isn't the way it is.. one can't effect what environmental factors will be imposed on them as an infant
the environmental factors that you talk about must have "swayed" me at an extremely early age, before 5.. and now i am stuck as a gay person. i would much rather be straight but i am not.
environmental favtors, such as some 'trauma', also have nothing to do with you.
just say hypothetically the environmental factor that made me gay was the fact that i grew up without a dad.. how did i have any control over that?
all evidence shows that people's sexuality is fixed ata very early age.
so whether we are physically born like that is irrelevant. we can't change it. should people who became blind later in life be treated differently to people who were born blind?
With the whole poor thing, I come from an extremely poor country, and staying poor is not a choice. There are so many poor people fighting to earn themselves better money but don't manage to achieve it. Why? Well, one reason could be that they can't afford an education, so whatever job they get doesn't really give good pay. Therefore they stay poor, but not because they choose to. Main reason though I think is the "Social Indifference". Still, they don't choose to stay poor.
fair point, it is able to be changed, but it is very hard. And as I said, they don't always choose to stay poor. I guess it varies a bit from country to country, a poor person in Australia has higher chances to improve his lifestyle rather than a poor person in Peru and I've lived in both these countries. I suppose u speak in generalities so, well, fair enough I guess.
I think you are very stupid! How will babies know that they are gay or their parents know that their babies are gay. Do you believe in God? If yes, do you have solid proof that there is God?
1.2 MILLION HOMOSEXUALS WERE KILLED IN A HOLOCAUST! They were burned alive in ovens, killed in gas chambers & tortured with irrelevant medical experiments like animals.
This is not "gay rights" it is HUMAN RIGHTS as for the first time in 40 yrs of legislation prop 8 was even condemned internationally by Amnesty International, your own president, vice president & the head of the EU & you have the ordasity to tell me to get an education!
preach to the choir, man. every time the majority offers a "helping hand" they just reaffirm that they are the ones in control. I'm sure sean penn means well, but he is just one of many who have the power to "decide" to speak for equal rights, and therefore can hardly claim to champion the cause.
obama is saying that his PERSONAL belief is that marriage is a union between a man and a woman but hes also stating his PERSONAL belief shouldnt effect the civil rights of gay people.
in other words he's expressing that people should be able to believe what they want but it shouldnt be at the expense of people's civil rights
you have the right to believe whatever you want to believe
all im saying is that just because you believe something doesnt mean the rest of the world has to. gay people are as human and as american as everyone else living within this nation. ergo they deserve to have the same rights as everyone else.
if i'm not mistaken - people have the right to freedom of religion, therefore state and religion should be separate. running the US based on a certain belief completely defies that.
a) Once again, your ignorance prevails. I'm actually English and we spell words with original intent!
b) The church still has the right to discriminate with or without prop 8. It is inteferring in affairs of a secular constitution. It is like me a muslim saying I have the right to treat women as 2nd class citizens outside of Mosques!
c) Finally, I don't think any gay person needs your acceptance of their "lifestyle" in the same way black people don't need acceptance from the Ku Klux Klan!
DaryLeonardo, I don't agree with your reasoning. Besides, Obama is trying to do his Democrat/Liberal level best to please both sides of the coin. Can't you see that? And, Gays Never had the right to marriage, so how can a right be taken away when it was never there to begin with? This is not a civil rights issue. It's about morality.
I see, so in a country where LGBT teens have the highest suicide rate, your version of morality is to teach them that they are second class citizens. You don't know the meaning of the word MORALITY!
I think Sean Penn's speech was quite tasteful! And I think everyone's missing the point by calling it "courageous" or calling him a coward. Frankly, he wasn't being either one. He made the speech to get more awareness for the issue at hand and he did it with class and with poise. Give the man some credit: He's using his fame to call some attention to the fact that our country still has a long way to go in its quest for equal opportunity. That's something he SHOULD be applauded for.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
iluvmyspurs: Applauding gay marriage at an Awards nite & connecting it to 'equal rights is totally askew. Now, look at gay marriage/GLBT in it's True Light. It is akin to adultery, fornication, porno, bigamy, manboylove, underage sex, beastialty, sex slavery, etc. These are all immoral sins (whether one is Christian or not) & an affront to God & 'good Christians' everywhere. Gay marriage was Never a Right, only Trad' Marriage has been recognized since Adam & Eve were wed by the Lord in Eden.
Hmmm.. how are you so well equipped Yunginspirit with such terms as "manboylove" or "fornication"? Could it be that subconsciously you too support civil liberties but your hatred for your own sexuality and the guilt you feel for it is hazing your judgment? Possibly? No? Let's talk about it, honey :)
How is this speach "courageous?" When you speak to an audience of like-minded people and tell them exactly what they want to hear, it's called it pandering. And pandering is an act of cowardice.
Elizabeth Hasselback promotes the conservative agenda to a liberal audience and I don't see any mention of her courage.
I can see your point there, but I don't think Sean Penn considers those who disagree with him as his fans. Besides; the guy's probably a billionaire now and any loss of fans would make no difference to him. If he really wanted to show some courage, he would have made that speech in a forum where people get to respond with questions and he's have to back up his arguments with facts.
@ProtectSouthOssetia uh yeah and on top of that, what about the boycotts outside of the actual academy awards building as they all entered shouting hateful words and threats? Its courageous because he is not gay and yet took on a controversial role as an actor to make an important political statement for homosexuals. This acceptance speech could have totally distanced some fans and it was brave of him to make it known that he wasn't just "acting" in this movie but that he stands by it's message
I'm sorry, this man just made a speech of equal rights to a minority group which is being wrongly persecuted in front of a nation where 55% of the population disagree with him! I'VE NO DOUBT HE RECIEVED DEATH THREATS FROM EVANGELICALS FOR DOING THIS! A speech which will be looked back in 50yrs time with pride! Elizabeth Hasselbeck does even compare to this eloquence, compassion and courage!
I don't take my marching orders from E Hasselbeck. I go by God's word (which is eternally true). Regardless of how far America backslides in the next 50 years, times don't set morals.
If gays wanna unite and call themselves married, so be it. But don't expect my stamp of approval. I will not offer my approval of what I know to be abominable. No, Sean Penn didn't receive any death threats from Evangelicals. Death threats come from the left.
@gop4usa12 Well, what he is taking is socially just and what conservative person would talk about gay rights is not socially just. So, anybody who stands up for truth and just cause is courageous.
Your dumbass comment is the reason people like me vote against gay marriage. You throw words around like "socially just" to provote an agenda that's based on a fad. Marriage is a sacred trust, not an expression of equal rights.
@gop4usa12 And who the fuck are you to decide what marriage means to everybody? Who made you the hitler? Everybody has the right to choose what anything means in their lives!
Wow! Looks like somebody has a bad temper. If you want to decide marriage for yourself, go ahead and just do it. But don't expect my vote on what I believe is morally repugnant. If gay marriage is illegal, show me one gay couple that's been arrested for getting married. Instead of trying to force the people's votes, why don't you fight to get the government out of the marriage business altogether?
@gop4usa12 I agree with you that government should keep its nose out of marriage business altogether and I respect your right to vote whatever you want. But since this is out there for vote now, I have the right to voice my opinion in a public forum like youtube, and argue my viewpoint. I feel gay lifestyle is wierd and unnatural, but I respect their right for equality and choice. If somebody is dragging their personal lives to votebanks, they deserve to get justice and equality.
And why is gay marriage out for a vote? Have you thought that one through yet? It's not about equal rights. It's about blurring the value of the family that's been embraced throughout all time. The end result is replacing what we know to be a family to a one-world community. Think about this: The very people who are most active in pushing through gay marriage are the same ones who embrace communism. This issue sets a dangerous precedent, and the marxists know it.
And why is gay marriage out for a vote? Have you thought that one through yet? It's not about equal rights. It's about blurring the value of the family that's been embraced throughout all time. The end result is replacing what we know to be a family to a one-world community. Think about this: The very people who are most active in pushing through gay marriage are the same ones who embrace communism.
@pradeeptubeu And why is gay marriage out for a vote? Have you thought that one through yet? It's not about equal rights. It's about blurring the value of the family that's been embraced throughout all time. The end result is replacing what we know to be a family to a one-world community. Think about this: The very people who are most active in pushing through gay marriage are the same ones who embrace communism.
@gop4usa12 that true there changing meaning so we cant talk wors become so twisted . the gays want to feel there union is just as good as a man and women , and not consdier what others feel. the best would to call marriage something else for all and keep marriage as a detail word for man and women . they should ask on taxes are you a union or some other word instead of twisting the word marriage to include something else.
@tomanyasses I tell you what: When the day comes that the gay community quit referring to marriage as a "right," I'll start taking them seriously on it. Marriage has nothing to do with rights. It has everything to do with responsibility. A couple makes a commitment to eachother for the sake of the children their behavior will soon produce. And since they only see "rights" in regard to marriage, they don't deserve my acknowledgement.
@gop4usa12 um.... your supposed to get married BEFORE you have children. And what does that have to do with anything? What about adoption? Are straight couples that are unable to have a baby lose the right to a marriage since there is no "point" as you say?
@gop4usa12 There are many gay couples who are looking to adopt. The more couples out there and loving families for orphaned babies the better in my opinion. Gay or straight has nothing to do with it. Especially when like 50%+ of straight marriages fail, i don't see the point in Gays trying it out. They couldn't be much worse at marriage.
Failing hetro marriages don't justify your idiology. Marriage is between man and woman, that's God's design. It takes a man and woman to raise a kid, not two men or two women. But if it makes you feel better, I would rather see a gay couple raise a child than a single parent.
Point is; marriage is troubling enough as it is. That's no reason to pervert the institution.
I'm sorry, but last I checked nearly half of all marriages end in divorce and the number of divorces caused by gambling issues are more than double than those without gambling issues. Many families begin or are torn apart by rape and abortion. Many men beat their wives and children sometimes to death because they want to feel "powerful" or "manly"
And now you are saying that allow gay marriage will pervert it? On what level does this make any sense?
Of course there are bad marriages. That doesn't mean gay marriage is going to make it any better. People used to get married because it was the right thing to do, not because they thought it was their right. Get it? Instead of shoving this fad down our throats, why don't you instead fight to get the government out of the marriage regulation business altogether?
Doesn't mean it's going to make it any worse either. The only ones who beleive that are closed minded idiots who think that homosexuality is only about the sex and not just 2 people in love.
Oh, so it's a fad now? You have any idea how retarded that sounds? Homosexuality has been around for centuries and now that people are fighting for their rights it suddenlybecomes a fad?
marriage is marriage pure and simple. Why does it bother you that gay people want to share in that?
And of course it is everyone's right to choose who they marry. Otherwise marriage becomes more of a dictatorship and has not sanctity at all. "You can marry him but not her. You can marry her but not him. You can marry but don't buttfuck each other. You can have equal rights as married couples but don't call it marriage."
People are just oberreacting becuase it goes against their personal beleifs and feel that they have to warn everyone about the dangers of love.
That's the only logical reason that anyone can muster against homosexuality is that it goes against there personal beleifs. If so, than don't marry someone of the sex, simple as that.
"homosexuality us unnatural" It's proven that there are animals in many species of the animal kingdom that contain homosexual tendancies.
"It's unnatural to pound someone in the ass" Tell that to many straight women who get banged that way by their male counterparts.
@GojyotheFeared: it goes far above that. If gay marrige has the same status as traditional, what the heck I say it, christian marrige, than there is something really wrong with this country! Those leftist dont give a crap about gays, the only thing they care about it to destroy christianity, hell they even use islam for that reason, but obviously the majority of americans still has its senses together, thats why 72% voted against the ground zero mosque, so think again!
Oh please, that's nothing but racism in it's purest form.
Am i saying it doesn't strike a nerve with me that it's built so close to Ground Zero? No, because it does. However, true Americans should abide by the Constitution in which states that each man is free to worship as he pleases.
If we band together and say "Hey, you can't worship here because you'r Muslim or Arab or any other middle eastern religion" then the constitution means nothing.
And that idiot who came out and said he was going to burn all those Korans (spelling?) should be ashamed of himself for even thinking about it and deserves all the flak he gets from others.
On the second note, gay marriage isn't about getting special rights like opposers claim. It's about EQUAL RIGHTS. It's about the right to say, "hey, we have just as much right to be in love as you do" and anyone who opposes it using pedophilia and bestiality is an idiot.
@GojyotheFeared I mean no disrespect here but let me pose a question. Where do you draw the line if not here? Can two women marry? How about two women and a man? How about four men? What about three women and a child? What about a man and his dog? Where would you insert your values? At what point would you impose 'your' values to say, "that's wrong". And on what would you base those values?
You asked your question. but before I answer, let me ask one of my own. This will actually be a 2 pronged question.
Why is it that when the subject of gay marriage comes up, people automoaticly go to poylygamy and pedophilia as a defense against it? And why is it that when they are used that it is more of an indication that gay people are frequently falsely accused of being pedophiles and/or polygamist and/or bestialists themselves?
These have nothing to do with gay marriage except to be utilized by opposers as a way of keeping the stigma of fear of the homosexual when really, there is nothing to fear. It is all blatant propoganda with no substanence to it.
The fact is that most pedophiles are either straight, or have no gener orientation at all as their attraction is primarily based on age and not gender.
The fact is that what makes one a homosexual or heterosexual doesn't make them polygamists.
@GojyotheFeared Ok...I understand what you're saying here but you've missed the point of my argument. My point is simply this. Most people on either side of this issue would agree that three men getting married... or a woman and a child.... or four men and a dog is wrong. We would not allow it. Why? Because it goes against our moral sensabilities. So, my question is, how far is too far for you? And how do you justify drawing the line at all?
@GojyotheFeared Don't misunderstand.... I'm not saying it's all the same...far from it. What I am asking is that by arguing we should all just 'live and let live' sounds good until we start applying it to lifestyles that you might find disgusting as well... such as polygamy or pedophilia. Then you start imposing your values....the members of NAMBLA might end up telling you to mind your own business and let them live out their lives as well. Where do you draw the line?
The fact is that there are laws in several states that prevent people from having more than one spouse, andif that isn't enough, they should look to their own morality.
Being gay has nothing to do with one's own moral issues because the fact is everyone is preprogramed to like and dislike certain things.
For example, my favorite color is red. Now, evangelicals might percieve that as me worshiping the devil when I most certainly do not.
My own moral issues lie with the most basic and fundamental of morals that is, or at least, once was highly regarded by the majority of America. The longing to be with that special someone to spend the rest of your life loving and devoting yourself to.
As someone once said, "There is no such thing as an open marriage. Once you admit your spouse is no longer the one you are willing to wake up to in the morning, it becomes a lie. Divorce is open. Marriage is pretending."
@GojyotheFeared Excellent! It sounds like you've got a developed sense of morality by which you live by. But , it all comes back to my original question. What happens when your moral values collide with someone elses? How do you deal with it? You and I agree that my examples are wrong... really wrong. But who are we to impose our values on them and say that four men can't 'love' each other in a 'marriage'? They would say, "Just because you don't understand doesn't give you the right to stop us."
@GojyotheFeared Let's avoid getting personal in this. I'm interested in the discussion. You can't possibly know me or make those assumptions. I never accused you of being such. Seriously...where would you draw the line? And how would you justify it?
I draw the line on allthe subjects raised except for gay marriage. Why? because it is exactly the same as straight marriage. The only obvious difference is it's with 2 people of the same sex. However, the fundamentals are still the same. 2 consenting adults exchanging vows to love honor and cherish each other for the rest of their lives.
I draw the line of polygamy for obvious reasons. Once you say it's okay to have more than one wife, what's to stop the husband from taking one over the other and abandoning her? Or if you have say one wife to have sex with, another to cook and clean and another to take care of the kids, it becomes grossly perverse in a rather subserviant world. In that kind of situation, there are no true wives, only servants.
@GojyotheFeared Thanks. I agree with you on most of those points. The only problem here is that by taking this stand, it imposes your values on another group of people that might fundamentally disagree. It creates a serious ethical dilemma. Seriously, I enjoyed our conversation. Thank you for the debate. I like getting to know what 'the other side' thinks. I will likely never agree with you on this point but at least I can better understand your position.
But that's the thing. Legalizing something isn't the same as imposing it on others.
For example, it doesn't mean men and women are going to just suddenly divorce each other and run off and marry someone of the same sex.
It doesn't mean your vows are going to be any less meaningful than mine.
It doesn't mean that people aren't going to get fired or hired if they're gay or not (though this is not accounting for employers' personal opinions on this issue).
@GojyotheFeared Yes, I agree. But don't you see that by 'draw[ing] the line' like you rightfully did, you are imposing your values on someone else. Are their opinions any less than yours or mine? Well, in this case yes. You and I are justified to tell them no. The problem the Right [like me] has is this: We are not interested in making anyone else live like us. We are, however, concerned with the societal implications...just like you. Only we draw the line in a different spot.
No, I am not. If it comes up for vote one day (thought I highly doubt it will), I will vote against everything I have stated as being against. Until that day, I live by my own personal values as I see fit.
I am only stating my own personal beliefs. I am not here to try and tell you or anyone else how to live. All I can do is suggest that those that are pedophiles, polygamist, etc, is that they change their ways if not for their own sake, but for those around them.
@GojyotheFeared Well, I've enjoyed our debate. I'm about to leave for the day so I thank you for your time. I wish you the best. I'm always happy to have spirited conversations like this with rational people. Feel free to write anytime.
@GojyotheFeared That is part of the problem in having discussion like this... we sometimes cross each other up and don't see in time what the other wrote. No offense intended but imposition isn't a bad word. We all do it to one degree or another. We all impose our values no matter how much we try not to. They are bound to clash in a free society. Take care... gotta run.
While I agree to a certain extent that most to all people impose somethng or another, there is no imposition here.
I have my own personal values and live by them to the best of my abilities each and every day and I pray to God that one day people will finally wake up to the realization that what they are doing in polygamy, bestiality and pedophila are fundamentally and morally wrong and that there is nothing to fear from homosexuality except their own fear as it leads to...
But that is always going to be the common denominator here. Our personal issues. They may vary person to person, but it is still something that will remain in the backs or forefronts of our minds no matter where you stand on the issue.
I draw the line on bestiality of course because you're going outside of your own species which leaves open a number of issues. 1. The animal is obviously not going to consent as it cannot consent it is all about the person's lust for the animal. 2. There are only very few animals that can actually breed with other animals such as horses and burros (mules). 3. Which animal could possibly start the next AID's epidemic?
I draw the line on pedophilia because if True Blood has taught us anything, it's that emotional and psychological scarring can last a lifetime as a result. (Yes I realize the mundaneness of using an HBO series as a reference, but this kind of stuff does happen all the time).
Not to mention the fact that children are minors. If we put an age limit on them to drink, drive, smoke, work and even get married, then why is this even brought up for discussion?
I wonder how elegant he thinks Obama is now.
swarmis 10 months ago
It's not a matter of equal rights, any human is free to get married. It's a matter of defining just what marriage is.
swarmis 10 months ago
@swarmis You really don't get it, do you? Truly?
reflectivelife 9 months ago
@swarmis
The definition of MY marriage: None of your business.
The definition of your multiple marriages, divorces, and unmarried sex partners: None of MY business.
The definition of "Freedom"?? Go find something to do that doesn't involve sitting around the house all day worrying about who other people are getting married to.
I don't care what the bible says. Don't waste your breath, nor my time.
rumours77 8 months ago
@rumours77 So if I understand you correctly, you believe that there should not be any parameters on marriage. So it's cool for polygamy, adults and kids, humans and animals, etc. Hopefully this helps you to understand why the state gets involved.
swarmis 8 months ago
@swarmis
No, but I also believe that fornication, adultery, divorce, ans the lust of the flesh should be ilegal as well.
rumours77 8 months ago
@rumours77 Well that's inconsistant with your previous comment. But I would agree with that in a general sense, however, it's pretty hard for the state to monitor "lust of the flesh", and there are some circumstances when divorce is legit. As far as fornication and adultery go, 100% wrong 100% of the time. (in my opinion) Sadly it seems like more and more politicians, and lawmakers are guilty of all of the above. The governator is a classic example.
swarmis 8 months ago
@swarmis
The state can easily monitor "the lust of the flesh". All they have to do is make it illegal for women (and I guess, men) to walk around in public half-naked. Make sure you are covered from head to toe, and boom!! No more lust. The only time divorce is legit (according to the Book of 1st Corinthians) is in the event of Adultery. No Adultery, No Divorce.
100% against Fornication?? Cool.....make it illegal.
rumours77 8 months ago
@rumours77 I think that's the philosophy in Islam, but unfortunately the problem of lust doesn't exist because of clothing.The problem is in me, and you, and anyone because of the sin nature that we all inherited.But I agree that clothing helps avoid lust to a degree. Also I dont like Churches that dont address this issue while the women and girls are dressed like they're goin clubbin, with booty shorts with (juicy) on em n stuff. When I see those juicy shorts, I think juicy=diahrea. It helps.
swarmis 8 months ago
@swarmis Reproduction feelings are a sin? Since when? how f*cked up is your soul and mind?
Xiolablu3 5 months ago
@Xiolablu3 I never made a blanket statement like that "reproduction feelings are sin". if you read the thread, you'll understand the context. For example, if you're having "reproduction feelings" for a child, or a woman other than you're wife, it would behoove you to recognize those feelings as "wrong", and reject the impulse. If you think that any impulse is worthy of responding to, than you are the one who has some major issues in your "soul and mind". Use your brain.
swarmis 5 months ago
A legal adult should have the right to marry any other legal adult.
hfrancoe 11 months ago
NOTHING in nature says a MAN and a WOMAN -or two men or women - must be together forever. MARRIAGE IN ANY FORM IS NOT NATURAL, as hunger or thirst are. It is a civil/religious contract INVENTED by men.
If it were natural, no contracts would be necessary, and there would be no divorces. Our liberty to be with whoever we want, for as long as we want must be respected. I don't need anyone to tell me -or approve- who I can or cannot love, just like no one can tell me when to feel thirsty or hungry.
jacktower 1 year ago
lets see 98 thousand people die in hospitals from mistakes in usa every year, one thousand children drown each year in usa, ten thousand children die in car accidents each year in usa and a attention horror like this turd supports sending billions to other countrys instead of fixing whats bad here in usa
tomanyasses 1 year ago
you know it is funny how everyone want us to except gay marriages but yet, they still don't like the fact that a black woman can never be seen with an eligiable european man, thats just too far. ....bastards
KKSweetcakes 1 year ago
Gay marriage has nothing to do with equal rights. Someone with a homosexual orientation in Alabama has the same right to marry as someone with a straight orientation. Any eligible man may marry any eligible woman, no matter of orientation. The issue is not gay rights. The issue is trying to redefine marriage to get society to accept homosexuality.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink This is true. But there are places (where I live included) where the law has yet to be changed to allow all marriages.
snamaarGoliM 1 year ago
@snamaarGoliM I know of no state in the US where a man is forbidden from marrying a woman because of either of their alleged 'sexual orientation.'
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink My apologies, I wasn't trying to deny that. I was referring to the illegality here for two men or two women to get married. My point was that BOTH society's beliefs AND the laws concerning gay marriage need to be changed, not one or the other.
snamaarGoliM 1 year ago
@snamaarGoliM they need to do one thing call it like marriage that way we know exactely what going on , why call boy a girl and girl a boy ,idiot
tomanyasses 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink so in your world if someone tells you, you cant married the person you love just because no what would you do? ...........
XXDanyAlfXX 1 year ago
@XXDanyAlfXX I think you left something out of the sentence. Marriage has a meaning. It is a not a union between a woman and a tree, a man and a dog, a parent and child, etc. You can love your tree, your dog, your Mom, etc. That doesn't mean you should get married to that person. Marriage is a union between a man and a woman. Why do people want to call other things 'marriage' in the first place? Why not reject the institution of marriage rather than trying to change it.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink whit all the respect you deserve thats just stupid its different and true love not just fisical love or just caring about something like you care for your dog i mean real love and youre supposed to get married to your most important person whit out caring the look , skills or even sex......................and about marrige was orriginally concived to join families together in orther to protec the power (kings, queens, etc) so maybe that shouldnt change either , look i ramble to much
XXDanyAlfXX 1 year ago
@XXDanyAlfXX There are two reasons the government should recognized marriage. One is religion and tradition, a reason many governments throughout history have recognized it. The other is establishing inheritance. Men and women can produce children together. Children born in the marriage are considered children and therefore heirs. This is a pragmatic reason for a secular state to recognize marriage. Same sex couples do not produce children with one another.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink so what about sterile couples that kind of couples according to you shouldnt marrige because they cant have children.... look marrige is for me a commitment to the person you love and for some people a commitment to god to spend the life in the good and in the bad times whit you love one. so i cant see why homosexual people cant do that
XXDanyAlfXX 1 year ago
@XXDanyAlfXX God has revealed His endorsement of marriage between a man and a woman (in a lot of cases, exceptions are incest, etc.) He has also revealed His disdain for homosexual sex, beastiality, incest, adultery, fornication, and various other sexual sins.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
really thats your argument god hate to homosexual?? i hardly doubt that i dont get it why loving someone from the same sex is a sin, i hardly doubt that god in its all mighty and glory is going to doom you only for loving someone. and i hope you not come whit the god create man and women and all that crap.............................
XXDanyAlfXX 1 year ago
@XXDanyAlfXX What I said is that God made known His disdain for homosexual sex. If youw ant to redefine marriage, why not allow it for a brother, sister, father, mother, and third cousin who all love each other and let them all consumate a group marriage? That is not marriage, it is incest. Marriage has a definition.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink WTF??? youre comparing homosexual love whit family love you sick!! if you think that someone who likes someone of the same sex is something weird and sick like incest youre the one who haves problem. and cant understand a shit about anything
XXDanyAlfXX 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink God loves the world so much that He sent His only Son to die for us all. That includes homosexuals. The Bible says of those who do homosexual acts, and other sinners, whose sins have been forgiven through Christ. "And such WERE some of you, but now ye are washed, now ye are sanctified, and now ye are justified, in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God." Is it love to try to keep someone in a destructive sin, on the road to damnation?
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@XXDanyAlfXX Why do you need the government to endorse your love for anyone? The government has a practical reason for recognizing real marriages, but no good reason for recognizing gay marriage. God instituted marriage. Why do you want to make a commitment before god if you are just going to make up your own god? Why invent a god that isn't real to commit to? If you believe in God, then do what He says.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink oh so homosexual make up a god thats what youre saying??? and no god never instituted marrige i dont remember jesus marrying or why dont you tell me i didnt know you where gods right hand to know all that god want or dislike you just belive what angry people say to you and u keep telling god disdain homosexual but gods didnt have any human felling like hate "disdain" , jelous but yeah sure he hate homosexual people thats what happen whit religious people they contradict themself
XXDanyAlfXX 1 year ago
@XXDanyAlfXX God has revealed His will through prophets. You can't make God endorse what you want. Btw, Christ did teach on marriage, where eh talked about MAN and WOMAN, and repeated 'Two shall be one flesh.' Not all homosexuls make up their own god, and not all who make up their own god are homosexuals. You are the one talking about making commitments before God that do not please God, based on what God has revealed. I haven't said anything about God hating homosexuals.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink wait a minute i say commiment to the person you love and for some people to god too dont try to twist my words yes you do you say god hate them thats what you want to think thats what all want to think so they can belive they are better than some people. youre just a hipocryt
XXDanyAlfXX 1 year ago
@XXDanyAlfXX You put words in my mouth again. i wrote of God's disdain for homosexual sex. Can you even think of one reason to think that homosexual sex is not immoral? What purpose would homosexual 'marriage' serve in society? No good purpose. Homosexual sex is not the only sin. Lying, theft, murder, hatred of your brother, fornication, adultery, not honoring your parents. All sins, all worthy of God's judgment. God has mercy, though on those who recieve forgiveness through faith in His Son.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink well if i have to married whit someone just to "serve the society" i wouldnt do it. you miss the point of marrige everytime you to try to deffend religous people in their hate. so what you say is that is youre a homosexual you have to options 1 dont belive in god and 2 make your god. thats pretty much what youre saying and thats just stupid
XXDanyAlfXX 1 year ago
@XXDanyAlfXX Again, you are putting words in my mouth. You really have bought into the rhetoric of those who think that people who speak out against this form of sexual immorality are motivated by 'hate.' Btw, you keep leaving out words. I am a 'heterosexual' happily married man.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink oh so now is inmoral ?? and if its not hate what it is?? love??
XXDanyAlfXX 1 year ago
@XXDanyAlfXX If you loved someone about to fall off a cliff into Hell, would you keep silent so you wouldn't hurt their feelings? Is that love? Telling people that something immoral is immoral is not hate.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink no it isnt inmoral why you keep up whit that love is love it doesnt matter if its a boy or a girl why you dont understand that ??............ and so now you go directly to hell youre are no one to tell that kind of thing you dont know god you dont know his will you dont know his intentions and if you think you know him youre just stupid
XXDanyAlfXX 1 year ago
@XXDanyAlfXX Love is love? Would you apply that statement to pedophiles as well? Would you say that since it is love between a 5 year old and a 30 years old, it is okay? That's silly. Genuine love does not make something moral; homosexuality is wrong regardless of how two men or women genuinely feel. We know God's will with regard to this issue because he has made it clear in scripture, substantiated as credible via legitimate historical methodology. Sorry you do not like it.
rumblefishism 1 year ago
@rumblefishism no god say he dont want people to be lujurious in bed actually in the bible say someone that its gay since he she is born he-she should be respected and tread whit care totally the oposite of what youre doing
XXDanyAlfXX 1 year ago
@XXDanyAlfXX I can barely comprehend what you've written because your grammar is so terrible. If you are claiming that being born homosexual makes the behavior morally permissible, and that such a position is supported biblically, then you are way off base.
rumblefishism 1 year ago
@rumblefishism haha well english is not my home language anyway stop writting to me you get into somebody else conversation and just start sending hate words to me or what i belive figthing to u seems useless to me so stop doing that
XXDanyAlfXX 1 year ago
@rumblefishism take the bible and shove it up your ass
sonyaroxxx 1 year ago
@rumblefishism
If there was a God, he'd be ashamed of people like you.
PenelopevonIthaka 8 months ago
@SaudaraLink percive something as inmoral just because you dont like it thats hate blinding you no matter what you say
XXDanyAlfXX 1 year ago
@XXDanyAlfXX The issue is not whether I like it or not. God said it is an abomination.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink no the issue is how much do you want that to be true
XXDanyAlfXX 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink immoral in your eyes
hah13 1 year ago
@hah13 stupid shit
Roldulffff 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink wearing different kinds of fabric together is a 'sin' eating shellfish is a sin
but accordiong to your interpretation of the bible, you should have your children to the town square and have them stoned to death if they dissobey you
hah13 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@shut up bitch!!
Roldulffff 1 year ago
@XXDanyAlfXX Some pple think, 'choose the religion that's right for you adn reality is sure to follow' but that doesn't make sense. Btw, I did not say God hated homosexuals. I mentioned God's disdain for homosexual sex, IN regard to male homosexuality, God has revealed that it is an abomination. The BIble has a lot to say about God's feelings. Those who say that God has no feelings are influenced by neo-Platonism or other philosphies. this idea does nto come from the Bible.
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink no god disdain any can of sex that didnt have reproduction meaning so we all are doom according to you every human been that have a sexual intercorse whit out having children is doom if you want to think it like that plus if god is going to disdain someone just for loving someone of the same sex well thats their problem people born like that you know they cant change that so if god is that stupid i want to be disdain too but no people make god look stupid and hatefull
XXDanyAlfXX 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink what do you think youre going to have a price to critice other people ????
XXDanyAlfXX 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink but if you only thinkabout married as a tradition you have to do sometime in your life then you miss the point well thats what i think
XXDanyAlfXX 1 year ago
equal rights for every one lets see shawn peen has fought for them in wars oh wait no he didnt, he all talk and some else do the fighting typical puke
tomanyasses 1 year ago
@tomanyasses How am I wrong? How does two gay people getting married effect your life at all?
StirItUP1973 1 year ago
@StirItUP1973 lol you must be gay how does me sayng it effects my life effects your life
tomanyasses 1 year ago
@tomanyasses I'm not gay actually, Its just that I don't see how two gay people getting married effects anyones lives. Now if you can answer the question that would be great, instead of simply remarking like a smart ass.
StirItUP1973 1 year ago
@StirItUP1973 i didnt smart ass you, that's your problem you dont grasp the thought think again
tomanyasses 1 year ago
@tomanyasses You're obviously a troll. I'm done trying to get you to answer a question. Have a nice day :)
StirItUP1973 1 year ago
@StirItUP1973 no your trying to get me to think for you are to say something so you can make your troll comments ,amazing you have same political crap talk as the rest
tomanyasses 1 year ago
@tomanyasses Didn't Sean Penn pretend to be a soldier in a movie once?
SaudaraLink 1 year ago
@SaudaraLink yes in viet nam movie about as close to serving usa as a monkey
tomanyasses 1 year ago
I don't know why people vote against gay marriage. Two men or two women getting married does not effect my life at all. And it won't effect the lives of anyone who votes against it.
StirItUP1973 1 year ago
@StirItUP1973 wrong
tomanyasses 1 year ago
bLAH BLAH BLAH SELF RIGHTOUS NITWIT
GreenEarBuds 1 year ago
@GreenEarBuds so true
tomanyasses 1 year ago
1. people choose to be polyamorists.. therefore if they choose to be in multiple relationships then thats fine, but they have to deal with the fact that these relationships will not be legally recognised. being gay however is not something people choose, and therefore it is wrong to discriminate against them on the basis of who they are.
2. your pet can not consent to marrying you. two gay people can consent to marrying each other, provided they are over the age of 18.
oskar092 2 years ago
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backwoodsmister 2 years ago
1) no double standard: a poly person can be sexually satisfied by one partner. a gay person can't be sexually satisfied by a partner of the opposite sex.
2) i dont recall using the term gay gene, in fact i agree environmental factors probably do play a substantial role.. i don't see how you equate this to it being a choice that the individual has consciously made. environmental factors influence intelligence, peole dont choose to be intelligent or not... also there are no straight babies either
oskar092 2 years ago
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backwoodsmister 2 years ago
1. well she sounds more bisexual to me.. i am fully gay and have dated girls in the past however our relationships always broke up because you cant have sex with a floppy dick. sorry for being so graphic, but its the honest truth. girls just do not turn me on sexually, and i would say that is the way it is for the majority of gay people.
2. i never said 'born gay' if you read my original response, i simply said it is not something people choose.. i also said people arent born straight.
oskar092 2 years ago
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backwoodsmister 2 years ago
1. she is bisexual, but has strong leanings toward women, emotionally as well as sexually.
2. saying i have no choice does not mean born that way. just say a kid never gets any education, he will therefore probably be below average intelligence. he was not necessairly born dumber than everyone else, but due to factors outside his control he is now something he can not help.
3. it is a civil rights issue as i am being punished for who i am, something i didnt choose and cant change
oskar092 2 years ago
i really just dont understand how you think that environmental factors as opposed to genetic programming means gay people choose it.. that just really doesnt make sense.. i have been attracted to guys since i was like 5. so your point about me choosing it is redundant.
anyway lets just agree to disagree.. i know that in the future we will get equal rights. most of the people in my generation are completely accepting of it. :)
oskar092 2 years ago
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backwoodsmister 2 years ago
i wasnt going to reply but i can't help it
going by your logic people who are born into poor families choose to be poor.. because there is no "poor gene", therefore it is a choice.. that just simply isn't the way it is.. one can't effect what environmental factors will be imposed on them as an infant
the environmental factors that you talk about must have "swayed" me at an extremely early age, before 5.. and now i am stuck as a gay person. i would much rather be straight but i am not.
oskar092 2 years ago
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backwoodsmister 2 years ago
environmental favtors, such as some 'trauma', also have nothing to do with you.
just say hypothetically the environmental factor that made me gay was the fact that i grew up without a dad.. how did i have any control over that?
all evidence shows that people's sexuality is fixed ata very early age.
so whether we are physically born like that is irrelevant. we can't change it. should people who became blind later in life be treated differently to people who were born blind?
oskar092 2 years ago
With the whole poor thing, I come from an extremely poor country, and staying poor is not a choice. There are so many poor people fighting to earn themselves better money but don't manage to achieve it. Why? Well, one reason could be that they can't afford an education, so whatever job they get doesn't really give good pay. Therefore they stay poor, but not because they choose to. Main reason though I think is the "Social Indifference". Still, they don't choose to stay poor.
maujos4 1 year ago
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backwoodsmister 1 year ago
fair point, it is able to be changed, but it is very hard. And as I said, they don't always choose to stay poor. I guess it varies a bit from country to country, a poor person in Australia has higher chances to improve his lifestyle rather than a poor person in Peru and I've lived in both these countries. I suppose u speak in generalities so, well, fair enough I guess.
maujos4 1 year ago
I think you are very stupid! How will babies know that they are gay or their parents know that their babies are gay. Do you believe in God? If yes, do you have solid proof that there is God?
fabio11715 2 years ago
Now I understand of course your opinions are above the President, Vice President, Nancy Pelosi, Amnesty International and The head of the EU.
But pusihng that to one side.
Your question of Polygamy is a complete non sequitor it is impossible for two men or women to practice Polygamy!
2) Your point of comparing a human being to an animal, based upon their sexual orientation puts you in the same category of NAZIS.
As for being "insensitive" - go & tell that to Judy Shepherd!
mgbrighton 2 years ago
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backwoodsmister 2 years ago
HOW DARE YOU!
1.2 MILLION HOMOSEXUALS WERE KILLED IN A HOLOCAUST! They were burned alive in ovens, killed in gas chambers & tortured with irrelevant medical experiments like animals.
This is not "gay rights" it is HUMAN RIGHTS as for the first time in 40 yrs of legislation prop 8 was even condemned internationally by Amnesty International, your own president, vice president & the head of the EU & you have the ordasity to tell me to get an education!
mgbrighton 2 years ago
preach to the choir, man. every time the majority offers a "helping hand" they just reaffirm that they are the ones in control. I'm sure sean penn means well, but he is just one of many who have the power to "decide" to speak for equal rights, and therefore can hardly claim to champion the cause.
boone23howard 2 years ago
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backwoodsmister 2 years ago
i think you should watch those videos again...
obama is saying that his PERSONAL belief is that marriage is a union between a man and a woman but hes also stating his PERSONAL belief shouldnt effect the civil rights of gay people.
in other words he's expressing that people should be able to believe what they want but it shouldnt be at the expense of people's civil rights
DaryLeonardo 2 years ago
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backwoodsmister 2 years ago
you have the right to believe whatever you want to believe
all im saying is that just because you believe something doesnt mean the rest of the world has to. gay people are as human and as american as everyone else living within this nation. ergo they deserve to have the same rights as everyone else.
if i'm not mistaken - people have the right to freedom of religion, therefore state and religion should be separate. running the US based on a certain belief completely defies that.
DaryLeonardo 2 years ago
I'm afraid your simply wrong!
The constitution was purposely built to prevent religious persecution and right of the minority being voted on by the majority.
Homosexuality is predetermined in the womb sir - science has prooved this! There only one word ignorance and lack of self respect - PREDJUDICE.
mgbrighton 2 years ago
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backwoodsmister 2 years ago
a) Once again, your ignorance prevails. I'm actually English and we spell words with original intent!
b) The church still has the right to discriminate with or without prop 8. It is inteferring in affairs of a secular constitution. It is like me a muslim saying I have the right to treat women as 2nd class citizens outside of Mosques!
c) Finally, I don't think any gay person needs your acceptance of their "lifestyle" in the same way black people don't need acceptance from the Ku Klux Klan!
mgbrighton 2 years ago
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backwoodsmister 2 years ago
DaryLeonardo, I don't agree with your reasoning. Besides, Obama is trying to do his Democrat/Liberal level best to please both sides of the coin. Can't you see that? And, Gays Never had the right to marriage, so how can a right be taken away when it was never there to begin with? This is not a civil rights issue. It's about morality.
Yunginspirit 2 years ago
I see, so in a country where LGBT teens have the highest suicide rate, your version of morality is to teach them that they are second class citizens. You don't know the meaning of the word MORALITY!
mgbrighton 2 years ago
backwoodsmister:
Right! I agree with you whole-heartedly.
Yunginspirit 2 years ago
I think Sean Penn's speech was quite tasteful! And I think everyone's missing the point by calling it "courageous" or calling him a coward. Frankly, he wasn't being either one. He made the speech to get more awareness for the issue at hand and he did it with class and with poise. Give the man some credit: He's using his fame to call some attention to the fact that our country still has a long way to go in its quest for equal opportunity. That's something he SHOULD be applauded for.
iluvmyspurs32 2 years ago
iluvyspurs:
You are totally wrong!
Yunginspirit 2 years ago
If you can explain to me WHY I'm wrong, that would be great. Thanks!
iluvmyspurs32 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
iluvmyspurs: Applauding gay marriage at an Awards nite & connecting it to 'equal rights is totally askew. Now, look at gay marriage/GLBT in it's True Light. It is akin to adultery, fornication, porno, bigamy, manboylove, underage sex, beastialty, sex slavery, etc. These are all immoral sins (whether one is Christian or not) & an affront to God & 'good Christians' everywhere. Gay marriage was Never a Right, only Trad' Marriage has been recognized since Adam & Eve were wed by the Lord in Eden.
Yunginspirit 2 years ago
Hmmm.. how are you so well equipped Yunginspirit with such terms as "manboylove" or "fornication"? Could it be that subconsciously you too support civil liberties but your hatred for your own sexuality and the guilt you feel for it is hazing your judgment? Possibly? No? Let's talk about it, honey :)
AlsatianCousin 2 years ago
hurry up and die of old age allready the world dont need people who think like you
InFaHazel 2 years ago
... I find you to be an idiot, and God is not pleased with your hatred.
JyginsGreenBird 2 years ago
i think Yunginspirit is the kind of uh, the people is very kind and helpful, and full of wisdom, but never be able to accept GAY rights.
keranhwang 2 years ago
How is this speach "courageous?" When you speak to an audience of like-minded people and tell them exactly what they want to hear, it's called it pandering. And pandering is an act of cowardice.
Elizabeth Hasselback promotes the conservative agenda to a liberal audience and I don't see any mention of her courage.
gop4usa12 2 years ago
he can lose some fans who oppose same sex marrige
ProtectSouthOssetia 2 years ago 2
I can see your point there, but I don't think Sean Penn considers those who disagree with him as his fans. Besides; the guy's probably a billionaire now and any loss of fans would make no difference to him. If he really wanted to show some courage, he would have made that speech in a forum where people get to respond with questions and he's have to back up his arguments with facts.
gop4usa12 2 years ago
@ProtectSouthOssetia uh yeah and on top of that, what about the boycotts outside of the actual academy awards building as they all entered shouting hateful words and threats? Its courageous because he is not gay and yet took on a controversial role as an actor to make an important political statement for homosexuals. This acceptance speech could have totally distanced some fans and it was brave of him to make it known that he wasn't just "acting" in this movie but that he stands by it's message
xentry 1 year ago
I'm sorry, this man just made a speech of equal rights to a minority group which is being wrongly persecuted in front of a nation where 55% of the population disagree with him! I'VE NO DOUBT HE RECIEVED DEATH THREATS FROM EVANGELICALS FOR DOING THIS! A speech which will be looked back in 50yrs time with pride! Elizabeth Hasselbeck does even compare to this eloquence, compassion and courage!
mgbrighton 2 years ago
@mgbrighton
I don't take my marching orders from E Hasselbeck. I go by God's word (which is eternally true). Regardless of how far America backslides in the next 50 years, times don't set morals.
If gays wanna unite and call themselves married, so be it. But don't expect my stamp of approval. I will not offer my approval of what I know to be abominable. No, Sean Penn didn't receive any death threats from Evangelicals. Death threats come from the left.
gop4usa12 2 years ago
@gop4usa12 You are aloud your opinion... God Bless USA :) Thank you Harvey for your courage... we WILL win this :)
XxSpartaxX 1 year ago
@gop4usa12 Well, what he is taking is socially just and what conservative person would talk about gay rights is not socially just. So, anybody who stands up for truth and just cause is courageous.
pradeeptubeu 1 year ago
@pradeeptubeu
Your dumbass comment is the reason people like me vote against gay marriage. You throw words around like "socially just" to provote an agenda that's based on a fad. Marriage is a sacred trust, not an expression of equal rights.
gop4usa12 1 year ago
@gop4usa12 And who the fuck are you to decide what marriage means to everybody? Who made you the hitler? Everybody has the right to choose what anything means in their lives!
pradeeptubeu 1 year ago
@pradeeptubeu
Wow! Looks like somebody has a bad temper. If you want to decide marriage for yourself, go ahead and just do it. But don't expect my vote on what I believe is morally repugnant. If gay marriage is illegal, show me one gay couple that's been arrested for getting married. Instead of trying to force the people's votes, why don't you fight to get the government out of the marriage business altogether?
gop4usa12 1 year ago
@gop4usa12 I agree with you that government should keep its nose out of marriage business altogether and I respect your right to vote whatever you want. But since this is out there for vote now, I have the right to voice my opinion in a public forum like youtube, and argue my viewpoint. I feel gay lifestyle is wierd and unnatural, but I respect their right for equality and choice. If somebody is dragging their personal lives to votebanks, they deserve to get justice and equality.
pradeeptubeu 1 year ago
@pradeeptubeu
And why is gay marriage out for a vote? Have you thought that one through yet? It's not about equal rights. It's about blurring the value of the family that's been embraced throughout all time. The end result is replacing what we know to be a family to a one-world community. Think about this: The very people who are most active in pushing through gay marriage are the same ones who embrace communism. This issue sets a dangerous precedent, and the marxists know it.
gop4usa12 1 year ago
@pradeeptubeu
And why is gay marriage out for a vote? Have you thought that one through yet? It's not about equal rights. It's about blurring the value of the family that's been embraced throughout all time. The end result is replacing what we know to be a family to a one-world community. Think about this: The very people who are most active in pushing through gay marriage are the same ones who embrace communism.
gop4usa12 1 year ago
@pradeeptubeu And why is gay marriage out for a vote? Have you thought that one through yet? It's not about equal rights. It's about blurring the value of the family that's been embraced throughout all time. The end result is replacing what we know to be a family to a one-world community. Think about this: The very people who are most active in pushing through gay marriage are the same ones who embrace communism.
gop4usa12 1 year ago
@gop4usa12 that true there changing meaning so we cant talk wors become so twisted . the gays want to feel there union is just as good as a man and women , and not consdier what others feel. the best would to call marriage something else for all and keep marriage as a detail word for man and women . they should ask on taxes are you a union or some other word instead of twisting the word marriage to include something else.
tomanyasses 1 year ago
@tomanyasses I tell you what: When the day comes that the gay community quit referring to marriage as a "right," I'll start taking them seriously on it. Marriage has nothing to do with rights. It has everything to do with responsibility. A couple makes a commitment to eachother for the sake of the children their behavior will soon produce. And since they only see "rights" in regard to marriage, they don't deserve my acknowledgement.
gop4usa12 1 year ago
@gop4usa12 um.... your supposed to get married BEFORE you have children. And what does that have to do with anything? What about adoption? Are straight couples that are unable to have a baby lose the right to a marriage since there is no "point" as you say?
xentry 1 year ago
@gop4usa12 There are many gay couples who are looking to adopt. The more couples out there and loving families for orphaned babies the better in my opinion. Gay or straight has nothing to do with it. Especially when like 50%+ of straight marriages fail, i don't see the point in Gays trying it out. They couldn't be much worse at marriage.
xentry 1 year ago
@xentry
Failing hetro marriages don't justify your idiology. Marriage is between man and woman, that's God's design. It takes a man and woman to raise a kid, not two men or two women. But if it makes you feel better, I would rather see a gay couple raise a child than a single parent.
Point is; marriage is troubling enough as it is. That's no reason to pervert the institution.
gop4usa12 1 year ago
@gop4usa12
Pervert the institution?
I'm sorry, but last I checked nearly half of all marriages end in divorce and the number of divorces caused by gambling issues are more than double than those without gambling issues. Many families begin or are torn apart by rape and abortion. Many men beat their wives and children sometimes to death because they want to feel "powerful" or "manly"
And now you are saying that allow gay marriage will pervert it? On what level does this make any sense?
GojyotheFeared 1 year ago
@GojyotheFeared
Of course there are bad marriages. That doesn't mean gay marriage is going to make it any better. People used to get married because it was the right thing to do, not because they thought it was their right. Get it? Instead of shoving this fad down our throats, why don't you instead fight to get the government out of the marriage regulation business altogether?
gop4usa12 1 year ago
@gop4usa12
Doesn't mean it's going to make it any worse either. The only ones who beleive that are closed minded idiots who think that homosexuality is only about the sex and not just 2 people in love.
Oh, so it's a fad now? You have any idea how retarded that sounds? Homosexuality has been around for centuries and now that people are fighting for their rights it suddenlybecomes a fad?
marriage is marriage pure and simple. Why does it bother you that gay people want to share in that?
GojyotheFeared 1 year ago
@gop4usa12
And of course it is everyone's right to choose who they marry. Otherwise marriage becomes more of a dictatorship and has not sanctity at all. "You can marry him but not her. You can marry her but not him. You can marry but don't buttfuck each other. You can have equal rights as married couples but don't call it marriage."
People are just oberreacting becuase it goes against their personal beleifs and feel that they have to warn everyone about the dangers of love.
GojyotheFeared 1 year ago
@gop4usa12
That's the only logical reason that anyone can muster against homosexuality is that it goes against there personal beleifs. If so, than don't marry someone of the sex, simple as that.
"homosexuality us unnatural" It's proven that there are animals in many species of the animal kingdom that contain homosexual tendancies.
"It's unnatural to pound someone in the ass" Tell that to many straight women who get banged that way by their male counterparts.
It's all really absurd.
GojyotheFeared 1 year ago
@GojyotheFeared: it goes far above that. If gay marrige has the same status as traditional, what the heck I say it, christian marrige, than there is something really wrong with this country! Those leftist dont give a crap about gays, the only thing they care about it to destroy christianity, hell they even use islam for that reason, but obviously the majority of americans still has its senses together, thats why 72% voted against the ground zero mosque, so think again!
SupernaturalXtreme 1 year ago
@SupernaturalXtreme
Oh please, that's nothing but racism in it's purest form.
Am i saying it doesn't strike a nerve with me that it's built so close to Ground Zero? No, because it does. However, true Americans should abide by the Constitution in which states that each man is free to worship as he pleases.
If we band together and say "Hey, you can't worship here because you'r Muslim or Arab or any other middle eastern religion" then the constitution means nothing.
GojyotheFeared 1 year ago
@SupernaturalXtreme
And that idiot who came out and said he was going to burn all those Korans (spelling?) should be ashamed of himself for even thinking about it and deserves all the flak he gets from others.
On the second note, gay marriage isn't about getting special rights like opposers claim. It's about EQUAL RIGHTS. It's about the right to say, "hey, we have just as much right to be in love as you do" and anyone who opposes it using pedophilia and bestiality is an idiot.
GojyotheFeared 1 year ago
@GojyotheFeared I mean no disrespect here but let me pose a question. Where do you draw the line if not here? Can two women marry? How about two women and a man? How about four men? What about three women and a child? What about a man and his dog? Where would you insert your values? At what point would you impose 'your' values to say, "that's wrong". And on what would you base those values?
eternalwolf777 1 year ago 2
@eternalwolf777
You asked your question. but before I answer, let me ask one of my own. This will actually be a 2 pronged question.
Why is it that when the subject of gay marriage comes up, people automoaticly go to poylygamy and pedophilia as a defense against it? And why is it that when they are used that it is more of an indication that gay people are frequently falsely accused of being pedophiles and/or polygamist and/or bestialists themselves?
GojyotheFeared 1 year ago
@eternalwolf777
These have nothing to do with gay marriage except to be utilized by opposers as a way of keeping the stigma of fear of the homosexual when really, there is nothing to fear. It is all blatant propoganda with no substanence to it.
The fact is that most pedophiles are either straight, or have no gener orientation at all as their attraction is primarily based on age and not gender.
The fact is that what makes one a homosexual or heterosexual doesn't make them polygamists.
GojyotheFeared 1 year ago
@GojyotheFeared Ok...I understand what you're saying here but you've missed the point of my argument. My point is simply this. Most people on either side of this issue would agree that three men getting married... or a woman and a child.... or four men and a dog is wrong. We would not allow it. Why? Because it goes against our moral sensabilities. So, my question is, how far is too far for you? And how do you justify drawing the line at all?
eternalwolf777 1 year ago
@GojyotheFeared Don't misunderstand.... I'm not saying it's all the same...far from it. What I am asking is that by arguing we should all just 'live and let live' sounds good until we start applying it to lifestyles that you might find disgusting as well... such as polygamy or pedophilia. Then you start imposing your values....the members of NAMBLA might end up telling you to mind your own business and let them live out their lives as well. Where do you draw the line?
eternalwolf777 1 year ago
@eternalwolf777
The fact is that there are laws in several states that prevent people from having more than one spouse, andif that isn't enough, they should look to their own morality.
Being gay has nothing to do with one's own moral issues because the fact is everyone is preprogramed to like and dislike certain things.
For example, my favorite color is red. Now, evangelicals might percieve that as me worshiping the devil when I most certainly do not.
GojyotheFeared 1 year ago
@GojyotheFeared I see... so do you believe that homosexuality is genetic then? Or behavioral?
eternalwolf777 1 year ago
@eternalwolf777
My own moral issues lie with the most basic and fundamental of morals that is, or at least, once was highly regarded by the majority of America. The longing to be with that special someone to spend the rest of your life loving and devoting yourself to.
As someone once said, "There is no such thing as an open marriage. Once you admit your spouse is no longer the one you are willing to wake up to in the morning, it becomes a lie. Divorce is open. Marriage is pretending."
GojyotheFeared 1 year ago
@GojyotheFeared Excellent! It sounds like you've got a developed sense of morality by which you live by. But , it all comes back to my original question. What happens when your moral values collide with someone elses? How do you deal with it? You and I agree that my examples are wrong... really wrong. But who are we to impose our values on them and say that four men can't 'love' each other in a 'marriage'? They would say, "Just because you don't understand doesn't give you the right to stop us."
eternalwolf777 1 year ago
@eternalwolf777
I am gay, not a polygamist, or a bestialist or a pedophile and for you to raise the subject only serves to reveal your own insecurities.
GojyotheFeared 1 year ago
@GojyotheFeared Let's avoid getting personal in this. I'm interested in the discussion. You can't possibly know me or make those assumptions. I never accused you of being such. Seriously...where would you draw the line? And how would you justify it?
eternalwolf777 1 year ago
@eternalwolf777
I draw the line on allthe subjects raised except for gay marriage. Why? because it is exactly the same as straight marriage. The only obvious difference is it's with 2 people of the same sex. However, the fundamentals are still the same. 2 consenting adults exchanging vows to love honor and cherish each other for the rest of their lives.
GojyotheFeared 1 year ago
@eternalwolf777
I draw the line of polygamy for obvious reasons. Once you say it's okay to have more than one wife, what's to stop the husband from taking one over the other and abandoning her? Or if you have say one wife to have sex with, another to cook and clean and another to take care of the kids, it becomes grossly perverse in a rather subserviant world. In that kind of situation, there are no true wives, only servants.
GojyotheFeared 1 year ago
@GojyotheFeared Thanks. I agree with you on most of those points. The only problem here is that by taking this stand, it imposes your values on another group of people that might fundamentally disagree. It creates a serious ethical dilemma. Seriously, I enjoyed our conversation. Thank you for the debate. I like getting to know what 'the other side' thinks. I will likely never agree with you on this point but at least I can better understand your position.
eternalwolf777 1 year ago
@eternalwolf777
But that's the thing. Legalizing something isn't the same as imposing it on others.
For example, it doesn't mean men and women are going to just suddenly divorce each other and run off and marry someone of the same sex.
It doesn't mean your vows are going to be any less meaningful than mine.
It doesn't mean that people aren't going to get fired or hired if they're gay or not (though this is not accounting for employers' personal opinions on this issue).
GojyotheFeared 1 year ago
@GojyotheFeared Yes, I agree. But don't you see that by 'draw[ing] the line' like you rightfully did, you are imposing your values on someone else. Are their opinions any less than yours or mine? Well, in this case yes. You and I are justified to tell them no. The problem the Right [like me] has is this: We are not interested in making anyone else live like us. We are, however, concerned with the societal implications...just like you. Only we draw the line in a different spot.
eternalwolf777 1 year ago
@eternalwolf777
No, I am not. If it comes up for vote one day (thought I highly doubt it will), I will vote against everything I have stated as being against. Until that day, I live by my own personal values as I see fit.
I am only stating my own personal beliefs. I am not here to try and tell you or anyone else how to live. All I can do is suggest that those that are pedophiles, polygamist, etc, is that they change their ways if not for their own sake, but for those around them.
GojyotheFeared 1 year ago
@GojyotheFeared Well, I've enjoyed our debate. I'm about to leave for the day so I thank you for your time. I wish you the best. I'm always happy to have spirited conversations like this with rational people. Feel free to write anytime.
eternalwolf777 1 year ago
@eternalwolf777
You asked me what my morals were. I told you what they were and explained why as part of a rational discussion like you asked.
However, I am offended that you would take my own personal values as a symbol of imposission.
GojyotheFeared 1 year ago
@GojyotheFeared That is part of the problem in having discussion like this... we sometimes cross each other up and don't see in time what the other wrote. No offense intended but imposition isn't a bad word. We all do it to one degree or another. We all impose our values no matter how much we try not to. They are bound to clash in a free society. Take care... gotta run.
eternalwolf777 1 year ago
@eternalwolf777
While I agree to a certain extent that most to all people impose somethng or another, there is no imposition here.
I have my own personal values and live by them to the best of my abilities each and every day and I pray to God that one day people will finally wake up to the realization that what they are doing in polygamy, bestiality and pedophila are fundamentally and morally wrong and that there is nothing to fear from homosexuality except their own fear as it leads to...
GojyotheFeared 1 year ago
@eternalwolf777
hate along with verbal and physical harassment and even death.
Yet I will not force my views on others as it is their own choice on how they live along with the consequences in doing so.
All I can do is live my life as I choose and continue to be hopeful for a better future.
GojyotheFeared 1 year ago
@eternalwolf777
But that is always going to be the common denominator here. Our personal issues. They may vary person to person, but it is still something that will remain in the backs or forefronts of our minds no matter where you stand on the issue.
GojyotheFeared 1 year ago
@eternalwolf777
I draw the line on bestiality of course because you're going outside of your own species which leaves open a number of issues. 1. The animal is obviously not going to consent as it cannot consent it is all about the person's lust for the animal. 2. There are only very few animals that can actually breed with other animals such as horses and burros (mules). 3. Which animal could possibly start the next AID's epidemic?
GojyotheFeared 1 year ago
@eternalwolf777
I draw the line on pedophilia because if True Blood has taught us anything, it's that emotional and psychological scarring can last a lifetime as a result. (Yes I realize the mundaneness of using an HBO series as a reference, but this kind of stuff does happen all the time).
Not to mention the fact that children are minors. If we put an age limit on them to drink, drive, smoke, work and even get married, then why is this even brought up for discussion?
GojyotheFeared 1 year ago