Gretzky was All World. Orr was All Universe. +1 per game average. A statistic that will stand for 1000 years. Orr's Boston Bruins Team once had a Plus / Minus of + 794. Gretzky led Oilers never got in the same hemisphere as that number.
#4 was the best hockey player of all time. Hockey isn't just about scoring points. Orr fought, played defense, possessed the puck, outskated everyone during his career as well as scored.
The compliments of Gretzky as the best ever are without end! Anyone ever read the book Last Minute Of Play by Ross Brewitt? Here are some quotes on Gretzky from hockey players from 60s onward:
Phil Esposito:... there's no question, the greatest.
Pierre Pilot: That *!&%in' guy sees things none of us can see.
Look there is great insight on a great new hockey book out called Let's Talk Hockey. It goes into great detail about how dominant Gretzky was in his prime. It's hard to argue against it
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
contact hockey is something wayne could not play. He made friends with his enemies and they wouldnt check him. I f he played today, he would be an average player with good vision for short passes.
Many think his entire career is a fraud, look at highlite reels of Lemiuex, Crosby, Jagr, Ovechkin, Datsyk, Messier, and even Talbot (when he wants the puck he gets it).
Those were the best players of all time hands down.!
Thats bull shit that the "wouldn't" check him. Its the fucking NHL you try to win and includes checking "friends." Thats one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. They didn't check him because they couldn't you moron.
ANY one person that dominates a TEAM sport like hockey - at a professional level - for as long as Gretzky did - is something that comes along only once in a lifetime!!! You should feel honored to have seen him play!!!
Gretzky is an unbelievable hockey player. I really didnt like him much , because him and the Oilers stole so much attention from the NY Islanders, who were an awesome team.
Despite my dislike, what he could do on the ice was remarkable. The peripheral vision, the timing, the thinking were superhuman. He was uncheckable to a large degree because his lateral movement was great.
I have never seen anyone who could setup others like he did. It was like magic. Greatest player ever. Hands down.
Gretzky has the best numbers of all time but to me the best player of all time is number 66 he finished his career the first time at the age of 31 and at that point the only player ever to average 2 points per game at the end of his career. and he did not retire bc he was slipping cause he had 50 goals his last year. But orr by far the best leader ever.
You guys are unbelievable. All the if only's, shoulda, woulda's, coulda's. But they didn't! Gretzky did, plain and simple. He's broken more records than any other player ever. He scored 50 goals in 39 games for god sake. Lemieux couldn't do it, Orr couldn't do it, Crosby and Ovechkin won't even come close. He invented a style of play for himself that would optimize his time and output while on the ice ie: working from his office behind the net. The man changed hockey.
@juiceman1965 Not necessarily, it would make him the best offensive defenseman ever. Im not disagreeing though, Gretzky prob wasnt much to worry about in his own zone...except "quick break out by Gretzky, over to Kurri, leaves it for Gretzky> Gretzky fakes, dekes right, back to Kurri, He Shoots He Scores!!!"
If you put the goaltenders of that time in todays league you would have games with combined goals of more than 25 per game. Come on He was great but there have been better.
You people make me sick comparing Wayne or Mario to Sidney crosby and Alex Ovechkin... You can't compare players from totally different time periods. As for the Mario vs Gretzky debate. Hands down more skilled player was Lemieux, but Gretzky was the greatest Leader in history, the highest point getter, the best playmaker and the most influential person on hockey. Therefore, Gretzky gets the vote and the unquestionable win. Now everyone shut the fuck up.
How can you say Gretzky was the best leader in history and not compare him with other time periods? Your an idiot! Bobby Orr was the best leader on ice ever. Bobby Orr gets the vote as the best Hockey player ever. You shut the fuck up punk! That 12 in your name must be your age.
As i can see, you are 42 years old, that means u lived in orr's era and thats why u got him as a favorit, im 18 and i never seen them play live never, but skill wise Mario was miles better then orr, even better then the great one, but ofc, if we compare them in there era u got a point!
About The Wayne/Mario debate, Gretzky was fortuante to have good health and great teammates most of the time.
Michael Jordan/Jerry Rice are similar, not just in stats and alot of rings, but in supporting cast and good health from day one.
Mario's health wasn't a matter of ice injuries,his time missed was due to Back Surgeries, Back pain, Cancer, post cancer treatment, treatment fatigue, Blood anema.
His doctors say that at his best he never played above 75 %,even coming out of Jr. Hockey.
Did you check Gretzky's teammates in 1979-1983? They weren't any good players. And than in LA same story. Except Robitaille. Lemieux was lucky enough to have Coffey as well, Francis, most productive european player and most productive player of 1990, Jagr..and you are saying, that he was not lucky enough to have good team mates, not in years 1984-1989, but then he had better team-mates then Gretzky. Or you want to say that Kurri is better than Jagr. Check the facts and then write something.
In all sports there is always the guy who has the best stats for a carrer and single season and then there is always they guy who's highlights are every bit as good if not better but who due to circumstances never reached the same stats.
Spots Illustrated considers Lemieux the most talented player ever, Booby Orr says he's the best he's ever seen and Paul Coffey said he was the best he ever played with.
I'd say those guys know Wayne and Mario's abilities pretty good.
You cant even get spelling of word retarded right. Two mistakes in first sentence. English is my second language and i know it better than you.
You cant even get the continent right. Me, american :)
I am asking you now: Are you retarded?
I was talking about early Wayne's NHL years 1979-1983. Where was Kurri and others then? Mario had realy good team arround him in 1989-1992, Ron Francis, Larry Murphy, Joe Mullen, Paul Coffey, Bryan Trottier..all Hall of Famers + Jagr, best player in 1990-ties
And list goes on, Ulf Samuelsson, Kevin Stevens......for example Francis stands second all-time in career assists behind Wayne Gretzky with 1,249, fourth in career points (1,798), Jagr best european forward to play in NHL, i think these are all extraordinary players...
Your so right about the Penguins team. Many people believe Gretzky was better because of Edmonton. The truth is, Mario had Jagr, Stevens, Francis and still others who are known to be EVEN BETTER THAN those players from Edmonton or just as good. Not only that, but what about Tom Barrasso at the time? Does anyone give him the credit he deserves? He at one moment, was on his game better than most golies at the time.
The only scoring record, where Mario comes close to Wayne is 600goals milestone, Mario needed 719 games to achieve it, Wayne needed just one game less, 718. I checked stats already: PPG number (number in brackets included playoff points)
Lemiuex - 1.88ppg (1.85ppg)
Gretzky - 1.92ppg (1.91ppg)
Some people say, i should check the stats, when he'd retired 1st time, so there we go:
When he retired the first time he did not have higher numbers at all. The fact is he needed 719games to score 600 and 26games after that he retired the first time. You shouldn't realy use statistics against Wayne :)
How can you count the games, what he missed? He did nothing for the team in those games, that counts what he did on ice. Everybody knows, that Gretzky did not score "too many goals" in the second part of his career, but when he had 915 games played, he had better average than Mario, that's fact. But goals are not everything and in points Mario had never better numbers. But i take your point and leave this conversation. Had Mario stayed healthy, these stats would have been much different.
Besides, Wayne averaged 180 points a year for his first 10 seasons! Mario only broke 180 points 1x I think (maybe 2?) ever. Wayne's PPG and GPG averaged went down because he played the last 8 years of his career with a herniated back, and on some totally aweful teams. You keep saying he had better team, but that was really only in edmonton. LA and RYR both sucked, and that was half his career. Lemiuex played with Jagir through most his best years, who was the 2nd best in the league.
the game has evolved,since hasek revolutionized the goaltending game by implementing the butterfly style goaltenders no longer look helpless (see orr and gretzky vids.)
Lemieux missed 513 games and played 572 less than Gretzky.
Based on averages mario would ahve scored 182 more goals than Wayne had he played the 513 he missed and 227 more goals than Wayne had he played as many games.
Paul Coffee won cups with both and said that Mario was the best he had ever played with.
According to doctors Lemieux was never better than 80% at any time in his carrer due to his back.
Wayne played for a great team, amrio played for years with the worst.
Tell Paul Coffey and Bobby Orr that Gretzky is better than Lemieux.
Coffey won cups with both of them and said that Mario was better and Orr said Lemieux was the best he had ever seen.
I think they know a little more than you.
Stats are misleading.
They don't factor in Wayne being with the best team or good health, and Mario being with the worst for years and having evey imaginale bad luck senerio.
IS Mario only the 7th and 9th best goal and point scorer becasue carrer total stats say so?
The famous 'better team' excuse, used by people who don't know hockey very well. It's true that Mario started with the worst team in the NHL, but don't forget that Wayne started with an expansion team filled with players with no NHL experience. He still managed to win the Hart trophy on his first season, and the next one, and the next one, and the next one, and the next one...
mario was on pace twice by the All star game to break single season totlas, 89-90 he broke his wrist, 92-93 he got cancer, missed 23 was 12 point down in the rscoring race and won by 12 points.
Actually it's Wayne 9, Mario 3. You know what the Hart trophy is, don't you?
You can say anything with suppositions when you lack real arguments. I could say that Wayne should have won 2 more scoring titles, he finished tied with Dionne in 80 but Dionne had more goals, and he would have surpassed Lemieux in 88 because he missed a lot of games. So it could have been Wayne 12 and Mario 5 Art Ross.
Anything else to add so I can smash your arguments once again?
I forgot to mention that Wayne is without a doubt the best hockey player ever, and if he was 6'4" and was never traded from a champion team, he would even have better stats (possibly 900 goals and 3000 pts). Case closed.
Wow you're repeating yourself, out of arguments? Anyway, if Mario played all the games he missed, he would be in a wheelchair today because he had the weakest body in all pro sport. Orr said that Mario was the most 'talented' not the best, even Mario himself thinks Wayne is the best.
The most talented is not the best, it helps but it's not all. Alexandre Daigle was the most talented player of the 93 draft, but was he the best?
Lemieux was so diplomatic when he refused to represent his country at the world juniors because he feared that missing some games could stop him from breaking Lafleur's goals record, and when he didn't move from his seat when Pittsburg made him the honour to be drafted 1st overall (reason : Mario wanted one million for his rookie contract in 84...)
Try to compare them this way: How many games needed Mario to score 500goals and how many needed Wayne? What was Waynes scoring record, when he had 915games played, which is Mario's total? I think Wayne will always be a little ahead...both are extraordinary players from any point of view, hard to even compare them with anybody else, except Bobby Orr.
I understand what you want to say, but still nobody has higher scoring average pre game then Wayne and i think nobody will ever have...he is best player for me. I know what you are trying to say... but for me all that is just WHAT IF? Consider just facts, records, trophies and so...
I don't know how many games he had played when he had retired the first time, but what i am sure about is that with same number of games was Gretzky on better average. I'll check it in statistics anyway. He suffered some injuries as well, for example the season 87-88, when he played 13games less then Mario and if you compare the stats from that season, gues who would have won Art Ross. That's same like all about Mario: WHAT IF... I know Mario is the best player for you and for me it is Wayne.
Besides, Wayne still has the record for the best PPG in a single season as well. Yes Mario had seasons he was on pace to beat Wayne 215 mark, but Wayne himself had seasons he was on pace to beat it, but missed games due to injury. The year he had 208 he set the record for the NHL's best PPG average for a single season. He also set the record for most points in 1 post season that year with 47 in 18 games. Mario's best was 43 in 21 games. Not really that close.
Just an opinion. I am old enough have seen the Leafs win the cup. I watched the Summit Series, The great teams of Montreal, the Big bad Bruins, the Broad Street Bullies, back to the Canadiens, the NY Islanders, The Oilers. Mr. Hockey, the Great One, Lemieux and others but I have to tell you, Robert Orr is the most COMPLETE hockey player. The game has changed but you cannot change talent and skill. I am sure somebody older than I can tell me different.
Depends on how you define "best ever". If you go by numbers, Gretzky obviously has the numbers AND the Cups. But Orr not only excelled, he changed the game. Completely changed the way the game was played. First defenseman to win the scoring title. No other player has had that impact.
Gretzky will be remembered as the greatest hockey player to play the game. Orr comes close but he sure as hell isn't better. 215 points in one season!
Oh yeah if Orr was so much better than Gretzky than how come he broke just about all of Orr's records? Gretzky knows where the puck will be. And don't give me any of that shit that the league was "easier" in Gretzky's day because there were more players in Gretzky's time than Orr's. Orr was a very talented player but Gretzky is the best hands down!
Tell you what ... let's do a switch-aroo for comparisons sake. Does Orr score as many points playing center with Kurri and company. Maybe, maybe not ... who knows .. NOW!! Let's have Gretz play D in the Boston Garden. In my humble opinion, he'd be run over behind his own net by the other team's forwards, would be very hard pressed to do anything remotely similar to Orr's rush and finally ... would have to fight and fight through checks just like Orr did. I think Wayne's body would fall apart!
I just watched the video by JohnnyStorm2007 entitled "Gretzky Vs Orr: Gretzky the Best...Orr is he?". If any of you really want to have "some" idea(and that's just "some") of how much better a hockey player Bobby Orr was than Gretzky, you should watch it. Case closed. Orr was just amazing, even on one knee better than anybody else as Bobby Hull said. Really folks, there's just no contest.
Orr holds like 4 records right now, and they are only records for a defenseman, except his +/- record. Gretzky owns 60. I think one can make a strong case for Orr, but to say Gretzky isn't even close is just being close minded. Gretzky DID change hockey as much as Orr. He, and the Oiler team built around him, proved that pure offense with little to no regard for defense could still win championships and build a dynasty. Until then, everyone thought that D would always beat O in the post season
@shazariahl Agreed. Gretzky proved that small men could dominate!
The Oilers could play defence when they needed to, however. Remember the '84 Stanley Cup final? A shutout in the first game and then just 6 goals allowed in the last 3 games of that final. The Oilers, btw, scored 20 goals the games I mentioned!
Oh, you must be talking about the goal when Gretzky skates by Lemieux behind the net, wrap around, he scores! Ya that was a great goal, I'll try and upload it soon.
Honestly, when I see your comment, it sounds like a little kid that just wants to be heard. But, anyway, why in the world would they'd suck today? Is it because they were so dominant when they played? I don't know how much you've been around the game of hockey but, the bottom line, is that when you have guys with skills that most people only dream of, they'd be exceptional in any era.If Orr were 6 foot 4, he wouldn't have been the player he was!
Gretzky was All World. Orr was All Universe. +1 per game average. A statistic that will stand for 1000 years. Orr's Boston Bruins Team once had a Plus / Minus of + 794. Gretzky led Oilers never got in the same hemisphere as that number.
MrTehChopper 6 days ago
this music SUCKS and you did a terrible job of editing this video. thumbs up if you agree.
dipalipasaurus 10 months ago
@dipalipasaurus sorry no one did agree
BobbasN1 6 months ago
niether Orr or Gretzky tbh, Tretyak! for Goalie, Kharlamov for offensve and Lidström for Defense :P
Cherdenkov 1 year ago
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man im sick of people saying orr is the best player off all time its obvisly #99
7jaysfan7 1 year ago
man im sick of people saying orr is the best player off all time its obvisly #99
7jaysfan7 1 year ago
#4 was the best hockey player of all time. Hockey isn't just about scoring points. Orr fought, played defense, possessed the puck, outskated everyone during his career as well as scored.
zeykshade 1 year ago 8
All these highlight packs are the same....pretty sure we can come up with more kids!
D0NKY 1 year ago
@D0NKY Just watch some of him games. I've watched about 50 of his best games...we will never see another like him if we ALL live to be 99!
Scoclamor 1 year ago
The compliments of Gretzky as the best ever are without end! Anyone ever read the book Last Minute Of Play by Ross Brewitt? Here are some quotes on Gretzky from hockey players from 60s onward:
Phil Esposito:... there's no question, the greatest.
Pierre Pilot: That *!&%in' guy sees things none of us can see.
Mike Walton:...nobody better.
Scoclamor 1 year ago
Comment removed
Scoclamor 1 year ago
Look there is great insight on a great new hockey book out called Let's Talk Hockey. It goes into great detail about how dominant Gretzky was in his prime. It's hard to argue against it
bigphil399 2 years ago
umm he was good but bobby orr was better
nhhockey8 2 years ago
Gretzky is by faar better then B. Orr!!!!
ostaplyakh2008 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
contact hockey is something wayne could not play. He made friends with his enemies and they wouldnt check him. I f he played today, he would be an average player with good vision for short passes.
Many think his entire career is a fraud, look at highlite reels of Lemiuex, Crosby, Jagr, Ovechkin, Datsyk, Messier, and even Talbot (when he wants the puck he gets it).
Those were the best players of all time hands down.!
stockchalet 2 years ago
Thats bull shit that the "wouldn't" check him. Its the fucking NHL you try to win and includes checking "friends." Thats one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. They didn't check him because they couldn't you moron.
drvertigo 2 years ago 4
@drvertigo Billy Smith did a lot more than check him in the '83 finals!
Scoclamor 1 year ago
Except for the fact that Bobby Orr will still skate around all of them and score!
oliverjohn455 2 years ago
"Wayne Gretzky - Best Hockey Player Ever"
"Robert Gordon Orr - Best Hockey Player Ever"
"Jari kurri - Best Hockey Player Ever"
Theres best ones
n73phone 2 years ago
ANY one person that dominates a TEAM sport like hockey - at a professional level - for as long as Gretzky did - is something that comes along only once in a lifetime!!! You should feel honored to have seen him play!!!
Earthlinked 2 years ago 2
Gretzky is an unbelievable hockey player. I really didnt like him much , because him and the Oilers stole so much attention from the NY Islanders, who were an awesome team.
Despite my dislike, what he could do on the ice was remarkable. The peripheral vision, the timing, the thinking were superhuman. He was uncheckable to a large degree because his lateral movement was great.
I have never seen anyone who could setup others like he did. It was like magic. Greatest player ever. Hands down.
ponnapal 2 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Gretzkey is the best. my top 5 are
1.Gretzky
2.Bossy
3.Lemuix
4.Ovechkin
5.Orr
islandersdude95 3 years ago
How the HELL do you leave out Gordie Howe from any hockey top five list???
bodysurfer336699 3 years ago 2
Gretzky has the best numbers of all time but to me the best player of all time is number 66 he finished his career the first time at the age of 31 and at that point the only player ever to average 2 points per game at the end of his career. and he did not retire bc he was slipping cause he had 50 goals his last year. But orr by far the best leader ever.
piggy6610 3 years ago
"Wayne Gretzky - Best Hockey Player Ever"
Lol. Sure. Ask people who have seen them all, from the early 60's. One name emerges - Robert Gordon Orr. Gretzky is not even a close second.
gangster3591 3 years ago 3
You guys are unbelievable. All the if only's, shoulda, woulda's, coulda's. But they didn't! Gretzky did, plain and simple. He's broken more records than any other player ever. He scored 50 goals in 39 games for god sake. Lemieux couldn't do it, Orr couldn't do it, Crosby and Ovechkin won't even come close. He invented a style of play for himself that would optimize his time and output while on the ice ie: working from his office behind the net. The man changed hockey.
drteith 3 years ago
Greatest OFFENSIVE player ever. Orr played defense too which makes him the Greatest Player Ever....Gretzky didn't change the game the way Orr did
juiceman1965 3 years ago 10
@juiceman1965 Not necessarily, it would make him the best offensive defenseman ever. Im not disagreeing though, Gretzky prob wasnt much to worry about in his own zone...except "quick break out by Gretzky, over to Kurri, leaves it for Gretzky> Gretzky fakes, dekes right, back to Kurri, He Shoots He Scores!!!"
zekethehillbilly 1 year ago
shooting on the old goalie pads its like aiming on an empty net, give me a break....
ollecarlsson 3 years ago
If you put the goaltenders of that time in todays league you would have games with combined goals of more than 25 per game. Come on He was great but there have been better.
mikhailmike 3 years ago
brian holzinger could of been way better if he really tried
7Italiaaaaaaaa 3 years ago
Who chose this gay ass music for this vid?
AndrewStro 3 years ago
You people make me sick comparing Wayne or Mario to Sidney crosby and Alex Ovechkin... You can't compare players from totally different time periods. As for the Mario vs Gretzky debate. Hands down more skilled player was Lemieux, but Gretzky was the greatest Leader in history, the highest point getter, the best playmaker and the most influential person on hockey. Therefore, Gretzky gets the vote and the unquestionable win. Now everyone shut the fuck up.
seanlychou12 3 years ago
How can you say Gretzky was the best leader in history and not compare him with other time periods? Your an idiot! Bobby Orr was the best leader on ice ever. Bobby Orr gets the vote as the best Hockey player ever. You shut the fuck up punk! That 12 in your name must be your age.
bapabob 3 years ago 2
As i can see, you are 42 years old, that means u lived in orr's era and thats why u got him as a favorit, im 18 and i never seen them play live never, but skill wise Mario was miles better then orr, even better then the great one, but ofc, if we compare them in there era u got a point!
le0zar 3 years ago
definitely. Gretzky was a great player but didn't have the leadership of Orr or even Steve Yzerman.
SMSV2008 3 years ago
@SMSV2008 Bullshite, have you ever heard of leading by example?
zekethehillbilly 1 year ago
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ovechkin or crosby are the best
MPSkateProductions 3 years ago
wow, you're actually retarded. there is no way in hell that Crosby and Ovechkin combined are better than Lemieux or Gretzky.
hizzleeee 3 years ago 2
mario is better but wayne is still really good but sindy crosby i taking there place
rollerdude1361 3 years ago
First of all, sidney crosby is not a girl... "sindy crosby"
saile5 3 years ago
About The Wayne/Mario debate, Gretzky was fortuante to have good health and great teammates most of the time.
Michael Jordan/Jerry Rice are similar, not just in stats and alot of rings, but in supporting cast and good health from day one.
Mario's health wasn't a matter of ice injuries,his time missed was due to Back Surgeries, Back pain, Cancer, post cancer treatment, treatment fatigue, Blood anema.
His doctors say that at his best he never played above 75 %,even coming out of Jr. Hockey.
Bigbadben7 3 years ago
Did you check Gretzky's teammates in 1979-1983? They weren't any good players. And than in LA same story. Except Robitaille. Lemieux was lucky enough to have Coffey as well, Francis, most productive european player and most productive player of 1990, Jagr..and you are saying, that he was not lucky enough to have good team mates, not in years 1984-1989, but then he had better team-mates then Gretzky. Or you want to say that Kurri is better than Jagr. Check the facts and then write something.
Michal103818 3 years ago
The Oilers in the early 80's were no where near as bad as the Pens in the mid and late 80's.
The Pens were on the verge of leaving Pittsburgh they were so bad.
When Gretzky left the Oilers they were stil able to win the Cup with the same nucleus as when he was there.
The year Pitt won the Cup with Coffey, Mario missed 60 games from back surgery, so they played 22 reg season games together then the playoffs.
It was Coffey who said that Mario was the best he ever played with.
Bigbadben7 3 years ago
In all sports there is always the guy who has the best stats for a carrer and single season and then there is always they guy who's highlights are every bit as good if not better but who due to circumstances never reached the same stats.
Spots Illustrated considers Lemieux the most talented player ever, Booby Orr says he's the best he's ever seen and Paul Coffey said he was the best he ever played with.
I'd say those guys know Wayne and Mario's abilities pretty good.
Bigbadben7 3 years ago
I cant belive you just told that guy to check the facts are you retartded?
Gretkys team mates in edmonton.
Mark Messier Hall of fame 50 multiple 50 goal scorer
Jari Kurri, best left winger in the game
Glenn Andreson multiple 50 goal scorer
Paul Coffey
Mike Krushelniski
Kevin Low
The list goes on.
You must be American. Stick to tractor pulls and baseball.
anarkidz2 3 years ago
You cant even get spelling of word retarded right. Two mistakes in first sentence. English is my second language and i know it better than you.
You cant even get the continent right. Me, american :)
I am asking you now: Are you retarded?
I was talking about early Wayne's NHL years 1979-1983. Where was Kurri and others then? Mario had realy good team arround him in 1989-1992, Ron Francis, Larry Murphy, Joe Mullen, Paul Coffey, Bryan Trottier..all Hall of Famers + Jagr, best player in 1990-ties
Michal103818 3 years ago
And list goes on, Ulf Samuelsson, Kevin Stevens......for example Francis stands second all-time in career assists behind Wayne Gretzky with 1,249, fourth in career points (1,798), Jagr best european forward to play in NHL, i think these are all extraordinary players...
Michal103818 3 years ago
Your so right about the Penguins team. Many people believe Gretzky was better because of Edmonton. The truth is, Mario had Jagr, Stevens, Francis and still others who are known to be EVEN BETTER THAN those players from Edmonton or just as good. Not only that, but what about Tom Barrasso at the time? Does anyone give him the credit he deserves? He at one moment, was on his game better than most golies at the time.
SpeakGodSpeak 3 years ago 2
Still to Eskimo houses and hunting for Elk. Not all Americans like Baseball or Tractors. Your very ignorant.
SpeakGodSpeak 3 years ago
The only scoring record, where Mario comes close to Wayne is 600goals milestone, Mario needed 719 games to achieve it, Wayne needed just one game less, 718. I checked stats already: PPG number (number in brackets included playoff points)
Lemiuex - 1.88ppg (1.85ppg)
Gretzky - 1.92ppg (1.91ppg)
Some people say, i should check the stats, when he'd retired 1st time, so there we go:
Games Comparison
Lemieux - 745 games - 1494 points. 2.01 PPG
Gretzky(ten seasons) - 774games - 1837 points. 2.37 PPG
Michal103818 3 years ago
Mario retired in 97 as all time leader in goal per game and point per game averages.
He returned and brought them down but still barely behind in points per game but still ahead in goals per game.
He missed tons of games in his youth.
His highlights are better.
Wayne had great players for years who won the Cup after he left.
Mario was on the worst ever team for years.
Coffey won Cups with both and said Mario was the best he ever played with and Orr said Mario was the best he ever saw.
Bigbadben7 3 years ago
Did you even check numbers above? These are facts!!
What you are saying is not true.
Open your eyes and read again:
Lemieux - 745 games - 1494 points. 2.01 PPG
Gretzky(ten seasons) - 774games - 1837 points. 2.37 PPG
When he retired the first time he did not have higher numbers at all. The fact is he needed 719games to score 600 and 26games after that he retired the first time. You shouldn't realy use statistics against Wayne :)
Michal103818 3 years ago
Lemieux is still ahead on GPG, more impressive.
How many games it takes to reah a milestone or over all #s can't be used for to Lemieux.
Wayne played year in and year out nearly every game without limitations in his youth.
Mario had to keep coming back from hiatus' surgeries and illnesses to play in those # of games to achive milestones.
Mario only played 915 of 1428 possible reg season games.
That's 523 games missed over his carrer.
Do the math on his averages based on that.
Bigbadben7 3 years ago
How can you count the games, what he missed? He did nothing for the team in those games, that counts what he did on ice. Everybody knows, that Gretzky did not score "too many goals" in the second part of his career, but when he had 915 games played, he had better average than Mario, that's fact. But goals are not everything and in points Mario had never better numbers. But i take your point and leave this conversation. Had Mario stayed healthy, these stats would have been much different.
Michal103818 3 years ago
If I were a Golie trying to defend a penalty shot or a break away I would prefer to face Gretzky than Lemieux.
I know that's not Hockey is about but Lemieux's highlight films are another level.
Bigbadben7 3 years ago
Yes , you see like me that Lemieux's playing comes off another dimension, a one in which only Lemieux is allowed.
jpoux27 3 years ago
Besides, Wayne averaged 180 points a year for his first 10 seasons! Mario only broke 180 points 1x I think (maybe 2?) ever. Wayne's PPG and GPG averaged went down because he played the last 8 years of his career with a herniated back, and on some totally aweful teams. You keep saying he had better team, but that was really only in edmonton. LA and RYR both sucked, and that was half his career. Lemiuex played with Jagir through most his best years, who was the 2nd best in the league.
shazariahl 2 years ago
all the old-school players wouldn't stand a chance in todays league....the game has evolved
TaylorH0pkins 3 years ago 2
the game has evolved,since hasek revolutionized the goaltending game by implementing the butterfly style goaltenders no longer look helpless (see orr and gretzky vids.)
bennnlowe 3 years ago
Lemieux missed 513 games and played 572 less than Gretzky.
Based on averages mario would ahve scored 182 more goals than Wayne had he played the 513 he missed and 227 more goals than Wayne had he played as many games.
Paul Coffee won cups with both and said that Mario was the best he had ever played with.
According to doctors Lemieux was never better than 80% at any time in his carrer due to his back.
Wayne played for a great team, amrio played for years with the worst.
Bigbadben7 3 years ago
All lame theories and suppositions. Come on buddy, face the facts, Gretzky's the best, he proved it.
Irato99 3 years ago
Tell Paul Coffey and Bobby Orr that Gretzky is better than Lemieux.
Coffey won cups with both of them and said that Mario was better and Orr said Lemieux was the best he had ever seen.
I think they know a little more than you.
Stats are misleading.
They don't factor in Wayne being with the best team or good health, and Mario being with the worst for years and having evey imaginale bad luck senerio.
IS Mario only the 7th and 9th best goal and point scorer becasue carrer total stats say so?
Bigbadben7 3 years ago
The famous 'better team' excuse, used by people who don't know hockey very well. It's true that Mario started with the worst team in the NHL, but don't forget that Wayne started with an expansion team filled with players with no NHL experience. He still managed to win the Hart trophy on his first season, and the next one, and the next one, and the next one, and the next one...
Irato99 3 years ago
Wayne has 10 ,Mario 6.
The next 3 Gretzky won were never in a healthy Mario season.
80-81 to 86-87 where Wayne's.
Mario, 87-88,88-89, 91-92, 92-93, 95-96, and 96-97.
The other 3 for, 89-90, Mario was on pace at All Star game to break single season totals when he broke his wrist.
90-91 Mario had back surgery, missed 60, but came back and won Conn Smythe.
93-94 Mario missed 50 from fatigue and anema.
Jagr won it in 94-95 when Mario took a year off.
Could have been Mario 10, Wayne 6.
Bigbadben7 3 years ago
mario was on pace twice by the All star game to break single season totlas, 89-90 he broke his wrist, 92-93 he got cancer, missed 23 was 12 point down in the rscoring race and won by 12 points.
Bigbadben7 3 years ago
Actually it's Wayne 9, Mario 3. You know what the Hart trophy is, don't you?
You can say anything with suppositions when you lack real arguments. I could say that Wayne should have won 2 more scoring titles, he finished tied with Dionne in 80 but Dionne had more goals, and he would have surpassed Lemieux in 88 because he missed a lot of games. So it could have been Wayne 12 and Mario 5 Art Ross.
Anything else to add so I can smash your arguments once again?
Irato99 3 years ago
I had erased my first line for space reasons and didn't realize that didn't leave any mention of the Art Ross Trophy as my primary point.
I never put too much emphasis on MVP trophies in any sport, they are far too subjective.
ven still with Mario's 513 games misssed, most of them in his 20's and early 30's he would ahve won more as well.
Bigbadben7 3 years ago
Your last post is very funny.
I forgot to mention that Wayne is without a doubt the best hockey player ever, and if he was 6'4" and was never traded from a champion team, he would even have better stats (possibly 900 goals and 3000 pts). Case closed.
Irato99 3 years ago
What you aren't realizing is that Mario missed the bulk of his games during his prime not later in his carrer.
Mario was easily on pace twice by the All Star game to break Wayne's single season totlas.
89-90 when he broke his wrist, and was also only a few games away from breaing the consecutive game scoring streak, and 92-93 when he got cancer.
Paul Coffey won cups with both and said mario was the best player he ever played with.
Bobby Orr said that mario was the best he had ever seen.
Bigbadben7 3 years ago
Wow you're repeating yourself, out of arguments? Anyway, if Mario played all the games he missed, he would be in a wheelchair today because he had the weakest body in all pro sport. Orr said that Mario was the most 'talented' not the best, even Mario himself thinks Wayne is the best.
Irato99 3 years ago
To be the most talented is to be the best.
If we are both in a rock band and you are more talented at writing songs and singing than i am, then you are better than I am.
Lemieux has always been diplomatic,
I noticed you made no reference to the Paul Coffey quote which you can find on the Magnificent One video and the 91 Pens highlights.
Bigbadben7 3 years ago
The most talented is not the best, it helps but it's not all. Alexandre Daigle was the most talented player of the 93 draft, but was he the best?
Lemieux was so diplomatic when he refused to represent his country at the world juniors because he feared that missing some games could stop him from breaking Lafleur's goals record, and when he didn't move from his seat when Pittsburg made him the honour to be drafted 1st overall (reason : Mario wanted one million for his rookie contract in 84...)
Irato99 3 years ago
Try to compare them this way: How many games needed Mario to score 500goals and how many needed Wayne? What was Waynes scoring record, when he had 915games played, which is Mario's total? I think Wayne will always be a little ahead...both are extraordinary players from any point of view, hard to even compare them with anybody else, except Bobby Orr.
Michal103818 3 years ago
Mario was mising tons of games in his prime and spreading his number of games needed to reach certain milestones over the years as he got older.
Had he never initially had back problems he would have reached milestones quicker based on his averages per season by games played.
Then consider that even when he was young and playing he was never more than 75% due to his spine according to doctors.
He was always at a disadvantage phsycially and with his team mates he had early on for several years
Bigbadben7 3 years ago
I understand what you want to say, but still nobody has higher scoring average pre game then Wayne and i think nobody will ever have...he is best player for me. I know what you are trying to say... but for me all that is just WHAT IF? Consider just facts, records, trophies and so...
Michal103818 3 years ago
When Lemieux retired the first time in 97 his scoring average was the highest ever as well as his goal per game average.
He screwed all that up by coming back 3 years later.
Even still he is still basically tied with Wayne on points per game and ahead of him on goals per game average to this day.
Bigbadben7 3 years ago
I don't know how many games he had played when he had retired the first time, but what i am sure about is that with same number of games was Gretzky on better average. I'll check it in statistics anyway. He suffered some injuries as well, for example the season 87-88, when he played 13games less then Mario and if you compare the stats from that season, gues who would have won Art Ross. That's same like all about Mario: WHAT IF... I know Mario is the best player for you and for me it is Wayne.
Michal103818 3 years ago
Besides, Wayne still has the record for the best PPG in a single season as well. Yes Mario had seasons he was on pace to beat Wayne 215 mark, but Wayne himself had seasons he was on pace to beat it, but missed games due to injury. The year he had 208 he set the record for the NHL's best PPG average for a single season. He also set the record for most points in 1 post season that year with 47 in 18 games. Mario's best was 43 in 21 games. Not really that close.
shazariahl 2 years ago
Just an opinion. I am old enough have seen the Leafs win the cup. I watched the Summit Series, The great teams of Montreal, the Big bad Bruins, the Broad Street Bullies, back to the Canadiens, the NY Islanders, The Oilers. Mr. Hockey, the Great One, Lemieux and others but I have to tell you, Robert Orr is the most COMPLETE hockey player. The game has changed but you cannot change talent and skill. I am sure somebody older than I can tell me different.
biko0909 3 years ago
Depends on how you define "best ever". If you go by numbers, Gretzky obviously has the numbers AND the Cups. But Orr not only excelled, he changed the game. Completely changed the way the game was played. First defenseman to win the scoring title. No other player has had that impact.
swise63 3 years ago
Goaltenders weren't good as now so...
sebastien323 3 years ago
Gretzky will be remembered as the greatest hockey player to play the game. Orr comes close but he sure as hell isn't better. 215 points in one season!
curcloin25 3 years ago
Oh yeah if Orr was so much better than Gretzky than how come he broke just about all of Orr's records? Gretzky knows where the puck will be. And don't give me any of that shit that the league was "easier" in Gretzky's day because there were more players in Gretzky's time than Orr's. Orr was a very talented player but Gretzky is the best hands down!
jrpeters5 3 years ago
Tell you what ... let's do a switch-aroo for comparisons sake. Does Orr score as many points playing center with Kurri and company. Maybe, maybe not ... who knows .. NOW!! Let's have Gretz play D in the Boston Garden. In my humble opinion, he'd be run over behind his own net by the other team's forwards, would be very hard pressed to do anything remotely similar to Orr's rush and finally ... would have to fight and fight through checks just like Orr did. I think Wayne's body would fall apart!
theontheoffwing 3 years ago
whats the song called?
SxelaRevol 3 years ago
I just watched the video by JohnnyStorm2007 entitled "Gretzky Vs Orr: Gretzky the Best...Orr is he?". If any of you really want to have "some" idea(and that's just "some") of how much better a hockey player Bobby Orr was than Gretzky, you should watch it. Case closed. Orr was just amazing, even on one knee better than anybody else as Bobby Hull said. Really folks, there's just no contest.
vakker2 3 years ago
Orr holds like 4 records right now, and they are only records for a defenseman, except his +/- record. Gretzky owns 60. I think one can make a strong case for Orr, but to say Gretzky isn't even close is just being close minded. Gretzky DID change hockey as much as Orr. He, and the Oiler team built around him, proved that pure offense with little to no regard for defense could still win championships and build a dynasty. Until then, everyone thought that D would always beat O in the post season
shazariahl 2 years ago
@shazariahl Agreed. Gretzky proved that small men could dominate!
The Oilers could play defence when they needed to, however. Remember the '84 Stanley Cup final? A shutout in the first game and then just 6 goals allowed in the last 3 games of that final. The Oilers, btw, scored 20 goals the games I mentioned!
Scoclamor 1 year ago
The greatest hockey player ever......Wayne Gretzky!
stanleycup2008 3 years ago
legend and number 1 ever and 4ever in NHL
TayraBitch 3 years ago
This video kinda sucked. If Mario were in it, it would be better lol
Pensfreak 4 years ago
Oh, you must be talking about the goal when Gretzky skates by Lemieux behind the net, wrap around, he scores! Ya that was a great goal, I'll try and upload it soon.
tjackson76 3 years ago
gretzky or orr would suck so bad if they played today
SlapShot2010 4 years ago
You obviously know absolutely nothing about hockey. Go play with your sidney crosby action figure or something.
jacknugentIII 4 years ago
Honestly, when I see your comment, it sounds like a little kid that just wants to be heard. But, anyway, why in the world would they'd suck today? Is it because they were so dominant when they played? I don't know how much you've been around the game of hockey but, the bottom line, is that when you have guys with skills that most people only dream of, they'd be exceptional in any era.If Orr were 6 foot 4, he wouldn't have been the player he was!
manofthenorth 4 years ago
All I will say is; you'll see another Wayne Gretzky come along, before you see another Bobby Orr.
manofthenorth 4 years ago
I dunno if anyone will ever see either. Orr was amazing, but Gretzky brought hockey to the forefront.
jacknugentIII 4 years ago
maybe the music is bad but Wayne Gretzky owns
1CrazyDudeMan 4 years ago