Tariq Ali - Stop The Massacre: Israel Out Of Gaza - 10th Jan

[habby06]

The fact that you post such hateful speech, where someone is calling for the destruction of a country, demonstrates your intelligence.

Perhaps it would be helpful to look in the mirror.

[habby06]

what is this bullshit?

[ectomorfoo]

Another Intelligent comment from the Zionist lobby...

[habby06]

I'm not part of any lobby just a Zionist.

[ectomorfoo]

The fact that you saw fit to leave a comment on my clip suggests otherwise. I live in hope that one day I will come across a Zionist of sufficient wisdom to be able to make an intelligent point. You are clearly not that person.

[ectomorfoo]

I think they'll tell you something different! Would this be the same Israel where the Central Elections Committee tried to bar Arab parties from even running in the last election? Would this be the same Knesset where Arab members are constantly faced with racist abuse? Would this be the same Knesset where Jewish Cabinet Ministers shout down Arab members when they try to speak in the chamber and regularly have them ejected? Arab members of the Knesset regard Israel as being UNDEMOCRATIC.

[Stone1917]

Let me guess: self-determination doesn't apply to Jews, right? The very fact that you claim that Israel is not a democracy (arabs enjoy more rights there than they do in any other arab country) demonstrates that you have an ideological animus against it. As for Hamas not using civilians as human shields, I don't think even you believe that. Also, you still haven't addressed Hamas firing rockets at Israeli civilians.. I guess you don't want to face the uncomfortable fact that it's a war crime!

[ectomorfoo]

I addressed that in my very first response, as I have addressed every 'point' you've tried to make. You, instead, have chosen to ignore most of my points, presumably because you had nothing believable to say in response. It is risible to claim that Apartheid Israel is a democracy - it'd take me minutes to list 100 reasons why that is not the case. What's your comment on the UN school catastrophe, as your current stance makes you even more extreme than Israel's Zionist government itself?

[runawayrebel]

Maybe you should start thinking from the beginning. You are the ones occupying the Palestinians land, and they are trying to protect it.Human shields?When was there any place that is safe from the Israeli missiles and air strikes? Hamas firing rockets at you is retaliation to what you do to their peoples. They dont have F16s but they have truth.The Gaza attacks showed the real face of Israel, it is a civilian killing, ethnic cleansing machine that can never, and i say never become a democracy.

[Stone1917]

runawayrebel. What occupation are you talking about?? The West Bank is run by the PA and Gaza is run by... Hamas! You also ignore the crucial distinction between Hamas and Israel, one fires *at* civilians, while the other aims at an armed group and sometimes tragically kills civilians. But you don't really care about human life. You care about using the Palestinians to make a political point. Oh, and ask Israeli Arab members of the Knesset if Israel is a democracy. They will tell you!

[Stone1917]

Hamas fires rockets purposefully *at* civilians. Israel targets Hamas militants who fire and hide weaponry among the civilian population, thus placing them at risk. Hamas is thus *doubly* guilty of war crimes. As for ectomorfoo's claim about the occupation, Israel left in 2005... You are 4 years behind the times.

[ectomorfoo]

@Stone1917: I'll ignore the personal insult and concentrate on the *up-to-date* facts. Israel has illegally occupied Palestinian land for sixty years, practising a policy of ethnic cleansing and displacing the Palestinian people. In so doing, it has ignored dozens of UN Security Council and General Assembly resolutions. Tens of thousands of Palestinians have died either as a result of Israeli aggression or of the inhumane conditions in which they have been forced to live by the Israelis.

[ectomorfoo]

Palestinians are entitled under well-established principles of international law to resist this illegal occupation, as they have continued to do for those 60 years. The right to self-determination allows the use of force. Israel's actions in recent weeks fail several tests of international law. Let us not forget that it was Israel, rather than Hamas, that first breached the ceasefire by carrying out attacks on targets in Gaza in December 2008.

[ectomorfoo]

Some might say that this was intended to provoke Hamas. Since then, Israel has responded with wholly disproportionate force in direct contravention of several principles of international law. The laws of war do not permit disproportionate force to be used against an occupied people. The laws of war do not permit disproportionate force to be used in denial of the right to self-determination. The laws of war do not permit genocide, for which there is increasingly significant evidence.

[ectomorfoo]

There is also evidence that white phosphorus is being used in densely populated areas in contravention of the requirement under international humanitarian law that all feasible precautions be taken to avoid civilian injury or loss of life.

[Stone1917]

And you yet again avoid the crucial distinction: Hamas fires *at* civilians, while Israel does all it can to minimize casualties despite Hamas's illegal tactic of using the population of Gaza as human shields.

[Stone1917]

What are you talking about? Again, Israel left Gaza in 2005... and who runs the West Bank? The PA! So using the "occupation" as an excuse for terrorism won't stand up to the facts. You also carefully avoid mentioning that Hamas stores and fires rockets from civilian locations such as schools and homes--shame!

[Stone1917]

I do agree with you though, that the right of self-determination allows the use of force, which is precisely why Israel is entitled to defend its citizens against terrorist attack.

[ectomorfoo]

It seems that Israel's campaign of misinformation is proving quite successful in Barbados. Israel claims that it is democratic - it clearly isn't by any definition - but will not allow any international journalists into Gaza to report. Why do you think that might be? What do you think Israel might have to hide? Israel also makes it virtually impossible for international aid agencies to operate in Gaza. Why, do you think? We shouldn't be too surprised: Israel has a *horrific* human rights record.

[ectomorfoo]

Quite apart from the fact you choose to ignore that Gaza is but a part of occupied Palestine, Israel still controls Gaza's airspace and territorial waters (as well as controlling its access to many essential resources). You mentioned the West Bank: no rockets have been fired from the West Bank and yet Israel continues to murder people there. Hamas does not use its people as human shields - more Israeli misinformation used to justify flagrant breaches of human rights.

[ectomorfoo]

Israel at first lied that Hamas was using its people as human shields to try to cover up an incident at a UN school in which 40 civilians were killed. Today, they were forced to back down and admit that they shelled the building (whether in error or otherwise) when presented with clear evidence to that effect. I won't comment on your last point as it's clear that you don't understand the right to self-determination.

[ectomorfoo]

The Palestinians have a legal right to resist the illegal occupation.

[cretan981]

No. The Palestinians dont have guided rockets but nevertheless most of the Israelis killed are soldiers as in the Lebanese war.

The list of war crimes committed by the IDF are adding up and now appear to include using napalm on civilians. One can only hope Olmert ends up at the Hague.

[Stone1917]

What about Hamas firing rockets at civilians in Israel, huh Tariq? Isn't that a war crime? Who has the double standard now, Tariq?