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@ThatIrishNut You're not quite understanding what is being said. You are right, to figure out your chance of improving your hand you multiply by 4 with two cards to come and by two with one card to come. However, what they are saying in this video is that to figure out your chance of improving your hand BY the turn, you multiply by 2, and to figure out your chance of making your hand by the river you multiply by 4 (as you have 2 chances). It's the same thing just viewed differently
to summarize what i just said, if u bet 5xpot your giving 45% pot odds, its impossible to come anywhere near these odds @ a 9 player table because aces are only have about 34.5%. so by betting high enough you can make sure that the pot odds you are giving are always higher than the players odds to win the pot meaning if they follow the the formula pot odds < odds=fold, you could win every hand just by betting big. so techincally the adice is flawed
Can anyone tell me im wrong if i say the vieo is wrong, spesifically when she says "only call if odds are greater than pot odds". for example if I have KK and a player who is first to act leads out with a massive 25,800 raise, prior to this raise the pot contained 6800. so 32,600/22,800
1.429:1
1/2.429= 1.429
41% = pot odds
im next to act, with 8 players still in the hand the odds for my KK (roughly 29%) dont exceed the pot odds of 41%. calling is obviously the correct play so IS VID WRONG?
@Hadesofthe07 You really have no idea what you're doing. You would be getting 1 to 1.2 odds first off, and just because KK is 29% to win against 8 random hands doesn't mean you're REALLY 29%. You just call/go all-in with it. The only hand that is beating you is AA, other than that you are a massive favorite to any hand you're against. Way better than 1 to 1.2 odds of winning.
actually her explanation makes sense. if you figure out the percentage of hitting an out on the turn instead of on the turn AND the river then you dont have to take into consideration an opponent raising after the turn.
for example if you had 8 outs and multiplied by 4 you have a hit percentage of 32. but what if you get raised after the turn? 32% means nothing if you fold. so its better to work out the chances of hitting on just the turn
@lellinger You are confusing people! On the turn you also have to use x2 rule, because only ONE card is to come. x4 rule is only applied if both opponents get all in on the flop. Otherwise you always check the odds of ONE CARD to come!!!
So let me get that straight. I check how many cards would make me win and multiply the number by 2 after flop and by 4 after turn and river? Then I check how much percent I pay if I call and check if the percent number of "outs" is higher than the percents of my call?
Finally, a video that uses % instead of X:Y ratios! It's so much more confusing to do the extra steps to get ratios, and I don't even know how to really apply them
This video is kind of misleading the way it says you must fold if you don't have pot odds. They need to say something of implied odds. You only look strictly at pot odds if the other player is all in.
are u fucking crazy? hand 78 and the flop 56 therefore, you can make up and down straight? the pot is 400 and player bets only 100 . Are there any stupid who will not fold?
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This advice is much more applicable to LIMIT Hold 'em than no limit. the reason is implied odds. If you're playing a maniac player, you can make the call even if the immediate pot odds do not justify it because you can win so much more on future streets.
Btw, I've seen videos that use 4x on the flop regardless. The problem with this is that, if you make a call based on 4x with 8 outs, giving a 32% chance to improve your hand by the river, that helps little if you don't actually hit the turn.
Your opponent then bets the turn, and you don't have odds anymore, and can't see the river. So, why exactly was 4x used on the flop? For a river card you only have a 16% chance to see?
Proper pot odds uses 2x on flop to calculate a call to see the turn. ;)
A comment to those of you that don't understand why she only calculated 2x on the flop instead of 4x. The rule of 2 and 4 only shows approximate odds of improving your hand but the turn and river. That doesn't mean that you should pay the pot odds designated by 4x from the flop, unless it is an allin situation. Only 2x should be applied to see the turn to be within pot odds.
This comment does not take implied odds into account. See proper video for that.
so i dont call for 4 perceent diference on the last example?? dont know if im gonna do that ..lol especially as you have implied odds to go on top?? what you think guys
@weapons33 Implied odds wasn't the topic. Just regular old pot odds. BUT, you should only make the call if you are fairly certain to get your opponent(s) to put more chips in the pot if you hit.
DO NOT ANYONE USE THIS SYSTEM UNLESS YOU WANT TO LOSE! IT IS WRONG - the video says it backwards you dont multiply 2 after the flop you multiply by 4 after the flop And multiply 2 after the turn that is why it is called the rule of 4 and 2 the video at 01:45 shows multiply 2 after flop and 4 after turn is WRONG if this were true it would be called the rule of 2 and 4. man, where are the 75,712 people who watched this vid???? I want to play them. :)
With the pot odds calculations, you also need to consider the cards that have been mucked by your opponents. For example, if 2 other players folded, that's another 4 cards eliminated, which could potentially include some of your outs.
@MsMusicCreations There is a reason most people wouldn't think of this... because it's incorrect. You can make NO assumptions about unknown cards that have been mucked. That is the whole point of calculating pot odds. Given an infinite amount of hands, all variations of cards remaining and cards mucked are possible.
Mucked cards can be accounted sometimes, say the board reads 2h4h8s, opponent called a decent bet in a 3 way pot pre, then called a big bet and a call on the flop. He then folds to a check and a big bet on a 3s turn. A lot of tight players will have the flush draw in this spot 95%+ and thus you can discount 2 hearts for your river calculations
Also if someone wouldnt have made a play without at least the A when an A rainbow flop comes, you can discount his A too
discounting the A on the flop can actually make you a lot more money than you think, if an A come for you on the river you no longer need to worry about your kicker because one A was folded on the flop, and you have the only other one in the deck. Now you have the freedom to value raise more than you would have, or less given that you now know your opponent cant have a 5th A.
This is a little used tool in poker and works great for online tourneys where players can get extremely tight
@imluvinyourmum You value bet when you are ahead, and it is based on your opponents hand, not yours. :) What you meant is that you can value bet here, because you think your A is bestt.
But at this point, your A is easily beaten. You are easily up against 2 pair or better. I would make a blocking bet if out of pos, and check through in pos, not a value bet. Better safe than sorry.
@joembush oh, i thought u value bet when u were behind and u dont even think about their cards -.-
meant what i said, ABC dictates u value bet less when the deck is dead to ur good hand. Im talking about having trip A's too, u have A10, an opponent u put on an A weak kicker folds, u hit the 3rd A on the river, now u dont have to worry about AJ, AQ and AK but now know ur opponent doesnt have an A. Has saved me well over a grand in live games and made some too
@imluvinyourmum This is fine for accounting for mucked cards if you're making 'correct' reads of other player's hands. This is different then just assuming some of your outs are out of play just because, as the original poster insinuated. In my experience however, this is not easy to do unless you know are up against a tight player. Loose players are difficult in this scenario, and therefore I wouldn't discount outs so quickly when against them.
@joembush i wouldnt make this read on the internet often, but live it is quite easy to narrow down a lot of opponents hands when you factor in betting pattern + tells, also in live games the action moves so slow its bleedingly obvious when someones raising alot or folding alot. Also this is still a small factor and only really plays apart on the size of bets on later streets, but is still a factor too consider.
Anyway opportunity too sharpen your edge you should take
@Implosion99 true this should be taken into account but not into calculations because it would be a very complicated statistic calculation. but you should indeed take into account that if you need for example a 5 or 8 for example to complete a straight that some of these have already been folded and your chances of hitting your straight is less than the calculated odds.
@HERxLEGACY Yeah, good point, you'd have to go into conditional probability which would be a bit difficult to do at a poker table hehe. I reckon you'd want to keep it simple to make your decisions fast.
i agree is like this on the flop we have 9 outs x4 =36% to improve your hand by the end , if the turn you not improve your hand is like this 9 outs x2+2= 20% to improve on the river is simple
@DJdoodoo They're saying turn as in the next street, which would be times 2. Likewise, they're saying river as in going from flop to river, then it would be times 4. Not wrong, just poorly worded.
@DJdoodoo no your wrong cuz common sense tells you that if you miss on the turn it goes from 47 to 45 which means you have an even higher chance of hitting one of the cards you need.
@xxxAlain exactly you said it urself, its the river so the odds of landing ur straight are decreased because u only draw one more card. if it were on the flop you would have 2 cards to try to catch the straight BY THE RIVER. So the odds are higher at that point... with each betting round your odds change.
@xxxAlain I agree. Its probably x 4 on the turn and x 2 on river since its your last chance to hit. But why are we guessing we're watching this to learn. 3 stars
what a stupid explanation. she's just confusiong people. she used the rule of 2 both on the TURN and the RIVER.
If you want to see what your odds are of hitting on the river WHEN YOU ARE STILL ON THE FLOP, then x4. otherwise just x2 for the turn and x2 for the river.
if you x4 on the flop that doesn't mean the answer is the potential % that you'll hit on the turn
You are very right...This video (and lots like these ones) are stupid...
After seeing this people get the idea that "x4" is from flop to turn...And this is really bad, 'cause....Let us see a funny example:
You have a flush draw on the flop. This means you have 9 outs. By this stupid video, you would do 9 x 4 = 36 % LOL. And of course we don't have 36% of hiting the flush! I wish! lol (we have 4:1 or 20%..or like you say and well, 9x2=18% which is very close to reality: 19%)
@rdot21 actually, the reason you x by 4 on the flop is to calculate your TOTAL chance of hitting your hand BY the river, NOT ON the river. The reason you multiply by 4 instead of 2 is because you have two chances to draw that card (1. The turn, 2. The river).
If you want to calculate your chance of hitting your hand ON the river, you multiply by 2. If you want to calculate your chance of hitting ON the turn specifically (disregarding the river) you ALSO only multiply by 2.
She is right about the four and two rule. 1:36 it shows that 12 x 2 =24% is the odds of hitting the out BY the turn after the flop. That is only one card. If you are counting the percentage after the flop BY the river, there are two cards to be seen and therefore it is 48% because if you play from the flop all the way to the river you get two chances to hit an out instead of one. If you are calculating percentage from the turn then yes there is only one card to hit your out on the river.
Yeah, but problem with this rule is that its kind of misleading. Although your chances of making your hand improve, it hurts your pot odds when theres more than one card to come. Simple mistake many amateurs make is the don't calculate their effective odds. Example. Your playing holdem and after the flop you have a 4 flush. Theres two cards to come which improves your odds to about 2-1. pots 20$, opponent bets 10$. You might say "im getting 3-1odds and may chances are 2-1. Ill call!
but 2-1 odds of making the flush applies only if you want to see both cards and to see the last card youll probably have to pay an extra 20$ on the next round. So when you want to see a hand all the way to the end, you cant say you are getting, in this case 30-10 odds. you have to say "if i miss my hand, i lose 10$ on this round and 20$ the next. In all I lose 30$. If i make my hand I was the 30$ in there now plus the 20$ on the next round for a total of 50$.
now, instead of 30-10 your getting 50-30 which is 1.66666666-1 on a 2 -1 draw therefore you must toss your hand in the muck as its now a losing play. the only time you could play this hand is when you think your opponent will call a bet on the end, but now im getting into implied odds and reverse implied odds and its just too much work. dont watch these videos. I cant beleive the crap they have new players learning.
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if you have 8 outs on the trun, it's about 32% chance that you will hit one of the outs...well, you pot odds are 20% so...CALL, dumbass bitch, NOT FOLD!
it's correct, because it says in the turn OR in the riv er, then u multiply by 4. so there are more chances of getting the card u need in any of those two places, rather than in one (turn)
ok ive watched this video and other countless times, i understand the outs and all, but ok i have a question for the 4 and 2 rule. For the turn, is it the 4 first? Or the 2? and for the odds, do u count the number of cards that the dealer "burns" as well?
That doesnt make any sense. If you play five potential hands and the odds are 5-1 for 20%, why is the previous pot odds example a 50 call to a 150 pot and its still 3-1 and you dont consider the 4h time you'd play that hand? Why is that?
if they total is 300, and your opponent bets 100, then the pot is 400. Well it'll cost you only 100 to call. The Odds are 400:100 or 4:1. This means for every 5 hands you play, you can lose 4 times and win 1 time & you'll break even. So it's actually not 1/4, its 1/5. 5 being the total # of hands you'll hypothetically play, and 1 being the number of times you'll win. So if you ever see odds like 5:1 or 3:1, just remember, you add those two #'s together. 3:1 is 1/(3+1) = 1/4 = 25%, not 33%.
nvm, I figured it out. I got really confused and didn't realize you have to add them together to get your actualy pot odds %. Example: 4:1 means 20% bcuz you would supposedly play 5 total hands, lose 4, and win 1, to break even; thus making that 1/5=20% and not 1/4=25%
I have a question, In percentage pot odds do I take into account previous bets that I have made?
Say for example in the pre flop I call 50 and my opponent calls 50 the blinds were 25/50, then on the flop my opponent bets 50, this will make me bet 50 to win 225, but in reality I have bet 100 taking into account my pre flop bet, in pot odds ratio I take into account previous bets I know, but do I take previous bets into percentages accounts?
ofcourse not. The previous bets are no longer your money once they're in the pot. it'd be 225:50 = 4,5:1 which is about 22%
Anyway if you wanna do it alittle more advanced it should be the rule of 4,3 and 2,1. cuz: x/47 +x/48 = 4,3% * x where x is outs. And if you wanna do it even more precise, you should take into account that you sometimes will be able to hit runner runners.
no it means the bigger ratio thee bigger percentage it is i can bet 2000$ and if i bet for a 1000$ u still need to pay a 1000$ to call so its again 2:1 coz its 2000/1000 same as with 100/50
Even if you don't have the pot odds, if you hit your card and your know opponant will go bust betting then that increases the value of making the call.
You only know your two hole cards and the flop (52 cards in the deck - 5 of these = 47 remaining cards). Since there is (legally :)) no way of finding out what your opponents hold nor getting the look on burn cards, any of remaining 47 cards must be taken into account, although you might not know you have smaller number of outs than you think (ie opponents hold some of your outs, some have been folded etc.).
isnt as difficult as it seems.the important thing is to know how many cards are left in the deck that makes u a better hand than your opponent. If u have for example KQ and the flop comes 7 J 2 and your opponent bets you can put him on a Jack.......so u will have 6 outs (3 kings + 3 queens) to beat him. the odds of getting those cards are 6X4=24%.that means 24% of the time u will hit a K or a Q either in the turn or river.if it doesnt come on the turn it will be 6X2=12% to hit them on the river.
Well it was a verry weak kicker, so even if you hit your ace you would be in deep trouble and stuck with a difficult dession if someone else had an ace with a better kicker. So it's best to not count the ace as a winning card imo. Unless maybe you already had a 5 and the ace would give you two pair, then I'd consider to count the 3 remaining aces and 2 remaining 5's as outs, thus making it 17 outs.
Yeah, it depends on who you're playing against as well as other factors. Aces could be counted as outs depending on how the hand was played. Of course, if there are 5 people in a pot that was raised preflop, an ace would likely not be an out.
I guess deciding whether to count the ace as an out is situational at best. Even a 5 could be an out in some situations here.
u x4 after the flop, but only if you plan on seeing the turn, for example: all in. if you only want to see one card (the turn) it is x2. then after the turn it is x2 again.
so you can use x4 after the flop if you plan on seeing the river. if not use x2, since u are not sure that u will be seeing the river or not.
Hey there! Have you seen the book How to Shake the Online Poker Money Tree ? I got some helpful advice from it and now can play like a pro and just won a large tournament with no sweat.
milon4200 1 month ago
last one should be a call, implied odds are very good
shazell15 1 month ago
I thought it was x4 on the turn and x2 on the river?
ThatIrishNut 2 months ago 3
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teddypsn 1 month ago
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@ThatIrishNut You're not quite understanding what is being said. You are right, to figure out your chance of improving your hand you multiply by 4 with two cards to come and by two with one card to come. However, what they are saying in this video is that to figure out your chance of improving your hand BY the turn, you multiply by 2, and to figure out your chance of making your hand by the river you multiply by 4 (as you have 2 chances). It's the same thing just viewed differently
777static777 1 week ago
macchecazzo!
supersystem1979 2 months ago
to summarize what i just said, if u bet 5xpot your giving 45% pot odds, its impossible to come anywhere near these odds @ a 9 player table because aces are only have about 34.5%. so by betting high enough you can make sure that the pot odds you are giving are always higher than the players odds to win the pot meaning if they follow the the formula pot odds < odds=fold, you could win every hand just by betting big. so techincally the adice is flawed
Hadesofthe07 2 months ago
Can anyone tell me im wrong if i say the vieo is wrong, spesifically when she says "only call if odds are greater than pot odds". for example if I have KK and a player who is first to act leads out with a massive 25,800 raise, prior to this raise the pot contained 6800. so 32,600/22,800
1.429:1
1/2.429= 1.429
41% = pot odds
im next to act, with 8 players still in the hand the odds for my KK (roughly 29%) dont exceed the pot odds of 41%. calling is obviously the correct play so IS VID WRONG?
Hadesofthe07 2 months ago
@Hadesofthe07 You really have no idea what you're doing. You would be getting 1 to 1.2 odds first off, and just because KK is 29% to win against 8 random hands doesn't mean you're REALLY 29%. You just call/go all-in with it. The only hand that is beating you is AA, other than that you are a massive favorite to any hand you're against. Way better than 1 to 1.2 odds of winning.
airickeric 3 weeks ago
She forgot implied odds.
sdrawkcab190 2 months ago
simple and clear.
YouCoachPoker 2 months ago
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chazrockwell84 4 months ago
ace 5 example she missed out the 3 ace outs.
ojideagu 5 months ago
actually her explanation makes sense. if you figure out the percentage of hitting an out on the turn instead of on the turn AND the river then you dont have to take into consideration an opponent raising after the turn.
for example if you had 8 outs and multiplied by 4 you have a hit percentage of 32. but what if you get raised after the turn? 32% means nothing if you fold. so its better to work out the chances of hitting on just the turn
silentsniper125 5 months ago
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lellinger 6 months ago
@lellinger She actually did. Those remain the same as the cards you never get to see after the river !!
balghiti1 3 months ago
@lellinger there's no point considering the burn cards because you dont know what they are
Bescumberer 3 months ago
@lellinger You can't know what the burnt cards are, can you? So it changes nothing
DemonikOu 2 months ago
@lellinger You are confusing people! On the turn you also have to use x2 rule, because only ONE card is to come. x4 rule is only applied if both opponents get all in on the flop. Otherwise you always check the odds of ONE CARD to come!!!
bytedildo 2 months ago
thank u thank u very much!!!! Muchas gracias! great video
xXpieroXx2 7 months ago
Thanks soooooo much :D
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SuperOldwiseman 8 months ago
So let me get that straight. I check how many cards would make me win and multiply the number by 2 after flop and by 4 after turn and river? Then I check how much percent I pay if I call and check if the percent number of "outs" is higher than the percents of my call?
Awesome1601 9 months ago
@Awesome1601 No. It's times 4 if you got to see the turn and river. It's by 2 if you only see 1 more street.
ojideagu 5 months ago
Finally, a video that uses % instead of X:Y ratios! It's so much more confusing to do the extra steps to get ratios, and I don't even know how to really apply them
funincluded 9 months ago
@naughttube For sure it is x2 on the turn and 4 on the river ( the 5th card to come out on the table) ??
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harrymerritt69 10 months ago
wouldn't you have 15 outs if you count the aces??
cristofolon 10 months ago
This video is kind of misleading the way it says you must fold if you don't have pot odds. They need to say something of implied odds. You only look strictly at pot odds if the other player is all in.
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55emeryoertle44 11 months ago
are u fucking crazy? hand 78 and the flop 56 therefore, you can make up and down straight? the pot is 400 and player bets only 100 . Are there any stupid who will not fold?
IspanasOnTop 1 year ago
When your outs are above 8, YOU MUST subtract one digit before multiplying
Husapi 1 year ago
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JackDiamond777 1 year ago
This advice is much more applicable to LIMIT Hold 'em than no limit. the reason is implied odds. If you're playing a maniac player, you can make the call even if the immediate pot odds do not justify it because you can win so much more on future streets.
b1naryd1g1t5 1 year ago
Btw, I've seen videos that use 4x on the flop regardless. The problem with this is that, if you make a call based on 4x with 8 outs, giving a 32% chance to improve your hand by the river, that helps little if you don't actually hit the turn.
Your opponent then bets the turn, and you don't have odds anymore, and can't see the river. So, why exactly was 4x used on the flop? For a river card you only have a 16% chance to see?
Proper pot odds uses 2x on flop to calculate a call to see the turn. ;)
joembush 1 year ago
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joembush 1 year ago
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A comment to those of you that don't understand why she only calculated 2x on the flop instead of 4x. The rule of 2 and 4 only shows approximate odds of improving your hand but the turn and river. That doesn't mean that you should pay the pot odds designated by 4x from the flop, unless it is an allin situation. Only 2x should be applied to see the turn to be within pot odds.
This comment does not take implied odds into account. See proper video for that.
joembush 1 year ago
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joembush 1 year ago
so i dont call for 4 perceent diference on the last example?? dont know if im gonna do that ..lol especially as you have implied odds to go on top?? what you think guys
weapons33 1 year ago
@weapons33 Implied odds wasn't the topic. Just regular old pot odds. BUT, you should only make the call if you are fairly certain to get your opponent(s) to put more chips in the pot if you hit.
joembush 1 year ago
Isn't the turn that you do x4 and the river x2. that would be mathematical more logic
HERxLEGACY 1 year ago
@HERxLEGACY You can't calculate odds after the river..its the last cards dealt. x4 on the flop, x2 on the turn.
Ph4nToM890 1 year ago
damn im confused now
joyariffic 1 year ago
DO NOT ANYONE USE THIS SYSTEM UNLESS YOU WANT TO LOSE! IT IS WRONG - the video says it backwards you dont multiply 2 after the flop you multiply by 4 after the flop And multiply 2 after the turn that is why it is called the rule of 4 and 2 the video at 01:45 shows multiply 2 after flop and 4 after turn is WRONG if this were true it would be called the rule of 2 and 4. man, where are the 75,712 people who watched this vid???? I want to play them. :)
likitt2 1 year ago
With the pot odds calculations, you also need to consider the cards that have been mucked by your opponents. For example, if 2 other players folded, that's another 4 cards eliminated, which could potentially include some of your outs.
Implosion99 1 year ago
@Implosion99 Thank u for having common sense a lot of people would not think of this
MsMusicCreations 1 year ago
@MsMusicCreations There is a reason most people wouldn't think of this... because it's incorrect. You can make NO assumptions about unknown cards that have been mucked. That is the whole point of calculating pot odds. Given an infinite amount of hands, all variations of cards remaining and cards mucked are possible.
joembush 1 year ago
@joembush yeah they can
Mucked cards can be accounted sometimes, say the board reads 2h4h8s, opponent called a decent bet in a 3 way pot pre, then called a big bet and a call on the flop. He then folds to a check and a big bet on a 3s turn. A lot of tight players will have the flush draw in this spot 95%+ and thus you can discount 2 hearts for your river calculations
Also if someone wouldnt have made a play without at least the A when an A rainbow flop comes, you can discount his A too
imluvinyourmum 1 year ago
discounting the A on the flop can actually make you a lot more money than you think, if an A come for you on the river you no longer need to worry about your kicker because one A was folded on the flop, and you have the only other one in the deck. Now you have the freedom to value raise more than you would have, or less given that you now know your opponent cant have a 5th A.
This is a little used tool in poker and works great for online tourneys where players can get extremely tight
imluvinyourmum 1 year ago
@imluvinyourmum You value bet when you are ahead, and it is based on your opponents hand, not yours. :) What you meant is that you can value bet here, because you think your A is bestt.
But at this point, your A is easily beaten. You are easily up against 2 pair or better. I would make a blocking bet if out of pos, and check through in pos, not a value bet. Better safe than sorry.
joembush 1 year ago
@joembush oh, i thought u value bet when u were behind and u dont even think about their cards -.-
meant what i said, ABC dictates u value bet less when the deck is dead to ur good hand. Im talking about having trip A's too, u have A10, an opponent u put on an A weak kicker folds, u hit the 3rd A on the river, now u dont have to worry about AJ, AQ and AK but now know ur opponent doesnt have an A. Has saved me well over a grand in live games and made some too
imluvinyourmum 1 year ago
@imluvinyourmum This is fine for accounting for mucked cards if you're making 'correct' reads of other player's hands. This is different then just assuming some of your outs are out of play just because, as the original poster insinuated. In my experience however, this is not easy to do unless you know are up against a tight player. Loose players are difficult in this scenario, and therefore I wouldn't discount outs so quickly when against them.
joembush 1 year ago
@joembush i wouldnt make this read on the internet often, but live it is quite easy to narrow down a lot of opponents hands when you factor in betting pattern + tells, also in live games the action moves so slow its bleedingly obvious when someones raising alot or folding alot. Also this is still a small factor and only really plays apart on the size of bets on later streets, but is still a factor too consider.
Anyway opportunity too sharpen your edge you should take
imluvinyourmum 1 year ago
@Implosion99 true this should be taken into account but not into calculations because it would be a very complicated statistic calculation. but you should indeed take into account that if you need for example a 5 or 8 for example to complete a straight that some of these have already been folded and your chances of hitting your straight is less than the calculated odds.
HERxLEGACY 1 year ago
@HERxLEGACY Yeah, good point, you'd have to go into conditional probability which would be a bit difficult to do at a poker table hehe. I reckon you'd want to keep it simple to make your decisions fast.
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SharanZamarron48508 1 year ago
i agree is like this on the flop we have 9 outs x4 =36% to improve your hand by the end , if the turn you not improve your hand is like this 9 outs x2+2= 20% to improve on the river is simple
romica2007 1 year ago
Its 4 on the turn and 2 on the river. They got it wrong.
DJdoodoo 1 year ago
@DJdoodoo They're saying turn as in the next street, which would be times 2. Likewise, they're saying river as in going from flop to river, then it would be times 4. Not wrong, just poorly worded.
tonedawg2189 1 year ago
@DJdoodoo
1 month ago
"Its 4 on the turn and 2 on the river. They got it wrong."
you are saying the same thing. What the video mean is the chance of getting your hand WITHIN the turn and river.
FordSierraIS 1 year ago
@DJdoodoo no your wrong cuz common sense tells you that if you miss on the turn it goes from 47 to 45 which means you have an even higher chance of hitting one of the cards you need.
badcat1324 1 year ago
Its 4 on the turn and 2 on the river. They got it wrong.
DJdoodoo 1 year ago
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NikitaKeenan 1 year ago
Shoudlnt it be 8x4 at the end ?????
Its the river .. Check 1:38
I mean it´s confusing !
I think it´s not correct !
xxxAlain 1 year ago
@xxxAlain exactly you said it urself, its the river so the odds of landing ur straight are decreased because u only draw one more card. if it were on the flop you would have 2 cards to try to catch the straight BY THE RIVER. So the odds are higher at that point... with each betting round your odds change.
trunkss87 1 year ago
@xxxAlain I agree. Its probably x 4 on the turn and x 2 on river since its your last chance to hit. But why are we guessing we're watching this to learn. 3 stars
chachodude 1 year ago
what a stupid explanation. she's just confusiong people. she used the rule of 2 both on the TURN and the RIVER.
If you want to see what your odds are of hitting on the river WHEN YOU ARE STILL ON THE FLOP, then x4. otherwise just x2 for the turn and x2 for the river.
if you x4 on the flop that doesn't mean the answer is the potential % that you'll hit on the turn
rdot21 1 year ago 13
@rdot21
You are very right...This video (and lots like these ones) are stupid...
After seeing this people get the idea that "x4" is from flop to turn...And this is really bad, 'cause....Let us see a funny example:
You have a flush draw on the flop. This means you have 9 outs. By this stupid video, you would do 9 x 4 = 36 % LOL. And of course we don't have 36% of hiting the flush! I wish! lol (we have 4:1 or 20%..or like you say and well, 9x2=18% which is very close to reality: 19%)
ssopro 1 year ago
@rdot21 okay that's true, but the most important thing is from flop to river and not from flop to turn.. so why not x4 it's okay
Pomonoli 1 year ago
@rdot21 actually, the reason you x by 4 on the flop is to calculate your TOTAL chance of hitting your hand BY the river, NOT ON the river. The reason you multiply by 4 instead of 2 is because you have two chances to draw that card (1. The turn, 2. The river).
If you want to calculate your chance of hitting your hand ON the river, you multiply by 2. If you want to calculate your chance of hitting ON the turn specifically (disregarding the river) you ALSO only multiply by 2.
777static777 1 year ago
@rdot21 x4 on turn, x2+2 river??
t100base 1 year ago
@rdot21
You didn't understand what she said.
bigDeeOT 10 months ago
@rdot21 thak you sir , 'cause my brain was doing a blind knot.. !
plstrom 9 months ago
@plstrom you are most welcome
rdot21 5 months ago
forget it, my mistake! :)
alohageo 2 years ago
She is right about the four and two rule. 1:36 it shows that 12 x 2 =24% is the odds of hitting the out BY the turn after the flop. That is only one card. If you are counting the percentage after the flop BY the river, there are two cards to be seen and therefore it is 48% because if you play from the flop all the way to the river you get two chances to hit an out instead of one. If you are calculating percentage from the turn then yes there is only one card to hit your out on the river.
channelsurfer06 2 years ago
Yeah, but problem with this rule is that its kind of misleading. Although your chances of making your hand improve, it hurts your pot odds when theres more than one card to come. Simple mistake many amateurs make is the don't calculate their effective odds. Example. Your playing holdem and after the flop you have a 4 flush. Theres two cards to come which improves your odds to about 2-1. pots 20$, opponent bets 10$. You might say "im getting 3-1odds and may chances are 2-1. Ill call!
thejaydoh 2 years ago
but 2-1 odds of making the flush applies only if you want to see both cards and to see the last card youll probably have to pay an extra 20$ on the next round. So when you want to see a hand all the way to the end, you cant say you are getting, in this case 30-10 odds. you have to say "if i miss my hand, i lose 10$ on this round and 20$ the next. In all I lose 30$. If i make my hand I was the 30$ in there now plus the 20$ on the next round for a total of 50$.
thejaydoh 2 years ago
now, instead of 30-10 your getting 50-30 which is 1.66666666-1 on a 2 -1 draw therefore you must toss your hand in the muck as its now a losing play. the only time you could play this hand is when you think your opponent will call a bet on the end, but now im getting into implied odds and reverse implied odds and its just too much work. dont watch these videos. I cant beleive the crap they have new players learning.
thejaydoh 2 years ago
"be careful not to count the 2 of spades twice"
hey, if you forget that you're gonna count one extra out. is ir really THAT important?? i mean, 4 extra outs would be a big mistake, but one??
maiabh 2 years ago
yeah its 4x on the turn 2x on the river.
you0rsp888 2 years ago
it's 4x by the river, assuming you don't already know the turn card, and 2x by the turn.
Spacecowboyy 1 year ago
Is it not the turn x 4 and the river x 2. This is messed up.
MidnightCamaro1989 2 years ago
theres 1 less card out of the deck, the chances are more. trust me its going to be the river which has better chances
BigCWii2006 2 years ago
backgammon rulez!
Murphy4709 2 years ago
Comment removed
beanzmatt 2 years ago
makes PERFECT sence to me :) i knew the rull of 2 and 4 allready but the Pot odds and making the call beit higher then 25 % helped me ALOT :) ty
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sienipata 2 years ago
lol... way to confuse people. thanks.
makemehavefun 2 years ago
no. the pot is 150.
50 to call (making the pot 200)
3 to 1 odds on your 50
xxxIzekeIxxx 2 years ago
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19lelle91 2 years ago
TERRORISTI!!! Avete invertito le percentuali nella regola two- four
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CasinoPartySpace 2 years ago
lol not possible to get more odds on the turn
MrLoouie86 2 years ago
this is wrong, the rule is 4 and 2 not 2 and 4. 4 on the turn and 2 on the river. she said it backwards
numb1cutie 2 years ago
agreed this is wrong. it shud be like this:
number of outs on the flop x 4
and number of outs on the river x 2
MrLoouie86 2 years ago
Good, it's right!
ziocacu 2 years ago
in the beginning why should i count the 2:s?
abbeItheIman 2 years ago
straight?
efalsetto 2 years ago
Yeh i didnt see the ace, hehe ;P
abbeItheIman 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
if you have 8 outs on the trun, it's about 32% chance that you will hit one of the outs...well, you pot odds are 20% so...CALL, dumbass bitch, NOT FOLD!
praetorian18 2 years ago
(8/46)*100 = 17,39%
naughttube 2 years ago
this video is wrong its times by 4 on the turn and times by 2 on the river
1993terry 2 years ago
It is correct to say you have x2 to win ON the turn and x4 BY the river (turn and river combined)
This is what she says in the video, and it is correct.
Lets say you have an open ended on the flop.
% to win ON the turn. 8 outs x 2 = 16%
% to win BY the river 8 outs x 4 = 32%
naughttube 2 years ago 16
wtf, that makes not sense at all
SchwarzundWeis 2 years ago
very technical that donkeys don't know.
FreeClassifiedAds 2 years ago
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tcuk 2 years ago
Its says to use rule of 2 in the first example for the turn, then on the last example it uses rule of to on the river??
XTONE85 2 years ago
you only multiply by 4 on the river, when you have not seen the turn yet.
ichundichundduunder 2 years ago
I think this video is incorrect. I think that for the turn you multiply your outs times FOUR 4 and for the river you multiply by two
mannyn123 2 years ago
it's correct, because it says in the turn OR in the riv er, then u multiply by 4. so there are more chances of getting the card u need in any of those two places, rather than in one (turn)
surutis 2 years ago
i ve never fold 87 on that board if he bet 100 to win 400,NEVER
fedeturner 2 years ago
ok this makes a litle more sense now, i was multiplying by 4 for the turn, and 2 by the river, i didnt know it was the other way around lol
HappyClubRaver 2 years ago
how did it become 25 % in the first example?
pot is currently 150, 50 to call so shouldnt it be 200 (current pot plus call price) / 50 (price to call) = 4, so 400% ?
gogglemarks 2 years ago
ok ive watched this video and other countless times, i understand the outs and all, but ok i have a question for the 4 and 2 rule. For the turn, is it the 4 first? Or the 2? and for the odds, do u count the number of cards that the dealer "burns" as well?
HappyClubRaver 2 years ago
you ONLY count the cards you SAW, so your hand and whats on the board. on the TURN you multiply by 2 and on the river by 4
SchwarzundWeis 2 years ago
That doesnt make any sense. If you play five potential hands and the odds are 5-1 for 20%, why is the previous pot odds example a 50 call to a 150 pot and its still 3-1 and you dont consider the 4h time you'd play that hand? Why is that?
omusialo 2 years ago
Pot Odds %25 how is it became %20 i did not understand 2:53 example. Total pot 100/400=%25
pinusstrikesback 2 years ago
its 20% because your bet is included
so it's 400+100(your bet) / 5 = 100 = 20%
nforce2 2 years ago
if they total is 300, and your opponent bets 100, then the pot is 400. Well it'll cost you only 100 to call. The Odds are 400:100 or 4:1. This means for every 5 hands you play, you can lose 4 times and win 1 time & you'll break even. So it's actually not 1/4, its 1/5. 5 being the total # of hands you'll hypothetically play, and 1 being the number of times you'll win. So if you ever see odds like 5:1 or 3:1, just remember, you add those two #'s together. 3:1 is 1/(3+1) = 1/4 = 25%, not 33%.
zalmi1 2 years ago
THANK YOU, that makes much more sense
SchwarzundWeis 2 years ago
cool freakin video - this is the kindof poker videos i like - ones which i learn something from
dnapowersports 2 years ago
Comment removed
zalmi1 2 years ago
nvm, I figured it out. I got really confused and didn't realize you have to add them together to get your actualy pot odds %. Example: 4:1 means 20% bcuz you would supposedly play 5 total hands, lose 4, and win 1, to break even; thus making that 1/5=20% and not 1/4=25%
zalmi1 2 years ago
great vid
yanchi1 2 years ago
I have a question, In percentage pot odds do I take into account previous bets that I have made?
Say for example in the pre flop I call 50 and my opponent calls 50 the blinds were 25/50, then on the flop my opponent bets 50, this will make me bet 50 to win 225, but in reality I have bet 100 taking into account my pre flop bet, in pot odds ratio I take into account previous bets I know, but do I take previous bets into percentages accounts?
Sylkra 2 years ago
ofcourse not. The previous bets are no longer your money once they're in the pot. it'd be 225:50 = 4,5:1 which is about 22%
Anyway if you wanna do it alittle more advanced it should be the rule of 4,3 and 2,1. cuz: x/47 +x/48 = 4,3% * x where x is outs. And if you wanna do it even more precise, you should take into account that you sometimes will be able to hit runner runners.
nejtilsvampe 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
forget the math just trust your instincts.
GameOverXbox 2 years ago
That is my strategy. Forget the math. Trust your gut.
TheOriginalEnE 2 years ago
You too.
Tuxster3 2 years ago
GameOverXbox, if you forget the math and just trust your instincts, then your game in poker is really over !!!!!!
mega7ron 2 years ago
Yeah...uh right...right. Just trust your instincts.
Your posting this statement shows you know nothing of poker.
Actually, I think you're just being a troll.
Tuxster3 2 years ago 2
hahah your rite really Tuxster3
mtbdudes21 2 years ago 3
Hehehe. :D
Tuxster3 2 years ago
wait, so if the pot has 100 in it, and someone bets 50 and i have to call 50, i have a 3:1 chance, so a 25% pot odds right?
bit of the pot is 50 and somone bets 50 and i have to call 50 i have a 2:1 chance, so a 50% pot odds
this tells me that the more there is in the pot, the more one should risk
SchwarzundWeis 2 years ago
no it means the bigger ratio thee bigger percentage it is i can bet 2000$ and if i bet for a 1000$ u still need to pay a 1000$ to call so its again 2:1 coz its 2000/1000 same as with 100/50
pro4aReason 2 years ago
sorry i obviously meant the smaller ratio not bigger it has nothing to do with pot size
pro4aReason 2 years ago
2:1 is 33% mate, not 50%.
You have to win 1 out of 3 times to break even.
Be careful use fractions when thinking in pot odds, because 1/2 and 2:1 are not the same.
50% would be 1:1 in odds terms, a good ol' coin flip :]
naughttube 2 years ago
The video doesn't talk about Implied odds.
Even if you don't have the pot odds, if you hit your card and your know opponant will go bust betting then that increases the value of making the call.
ojideagu 2 years ago
Nice.
bnz500 2 years ago
the first is correct the rest is nonsense
50+50 = 100 (pot)
50 to call so pot odds 100:50 = 2:1 = 33.33% odds
notsobad 2 years ago
do u subtract ur opponets hands
SUNKIST54 2 years ago
The answer is no.
You only know your two hole cards and the flop (52 cards in the deck - 5 of these = 47 remaining cards). Since there is (legally :)) no way of finding out what your opponents hold nor getting the look on burn cards, any of remaining 47 cards must be taken into account, although you might not know you have smaller number of outs than you think (ie opponents hold some of your outs, some have been folded etc.).
kurcobolja 2 years ago 3
it's not that difficult.
in the example, there are 12 cards left in the deck that will make a hand, so your ODDS are: 12/47 which is 25%
(or 1:3 → 12 winning cards : 35 losing cars)
let's say there's $400 in the pot and you have to put in $200 to call, so your POT ODDS are 200/600 = 33%
Since your ODDS are now smaller then your POT ODDS, you should fold.
eddyvanbuiten 2 years ago
isnt as difficult as it seems.the important thing is to know how many cards are left in the deck that makes u a better hand than your opponent. If u have for example KQ and the flop comes 7 J 2 and your opponent bets you can put him on a Jack.......so u will have 6 outs (3 kings + 3 queens) to beat him. the odds of getting those cards are 6X4=24%.that means 24% of the time u will hit a K or a Q either in the turn or river.if it doesnt come on the turn it will be 6X2=12% to hit them on the river.
macets 2 years ago
This level of math could be on "Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader".
darklyt3 2 years ago
seems like you have to have a masters in maths to be a pro poker player :/
zujuue99e9e99v9vvvvv 2 years ago
Let me quote somebody better in poker than me: 'Texas hold 'em is the easiest game to learn, but the toughest one to master.'
kurcobolja 2 years ago 2
I always thought that was Othello!
mtbdudes21 2 years ago
thank you for that stellar contribution
timmytankTK 2 years ago
I hate pot odds. I get the whole outs thing but pot odds makes my head hurt
fulham552 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Its too complicated..
Radenko90 2 years ago
Shouldn't it have counted an ace as an out too, when it showed the A5 of spades? I usually count overcards as outs, depending on the situation.
soulhunger1 3 years ago
Well it was a verry weak kicker, so even if you hit your ace you would be in deep trouble and stuck with a difficult dession if someone else had an ace with a better kicker. So it's best to not count the ace as a winning card imo. Unless maybe you already had a 5 and the ace would give you two pair, then I'd consider to count the 3 remaining aces and 2 remaining 5's as outs, thus making it 17 outs.
nejtilsvampe 2 years ago
Yeah, it depends on who you're playing against as well as other factors. Aces could be counted as outs depending on how the hand was played. Of course, if there are 5 people in a pot that was raised preflop, an ace would likely not be an out.
I guess deciding whether to count the ace as an out is situational at best. Even a 5 could be an out in some situations here.
soulhunger1 2 years ago
yea but u do not know..the players coulda folded all the spades and 2s left in the deck
baders 3 years ago
This video isn't taking into account the implied odds.
rage4200 3 years ago
it is wrong and wright.
u x4 after the flop, but only if you plan on seeing the turn, for example: all in. if you only want to see one card (the turn) it is x2. then after the turn it is x2 again.
so you can use x4 after the flop if you plan on seeing the river. if not use x2, since u are not sure that u will be seeing the river or not.
at 1.40 she explains it correctly.
mattingly17 3 years ago
This type of stuff can be way to much sometimes.
roshaun909 3 years ago
somebody really fk'd this system all up!
ElitePokerPlayer 3 years ago
what are you talking about..
skarules111 3 years ago
meanleaver ur right its the other way around
magula15 3 years ago