The Bible vs. The Book of Mormon - Part 2 of 7

[rosiesty]

The Book of Mormon was found in Cummorah,

[gatoron2595]

Besides the book of mormon , , , ,where are these names talked about in any credible articles , , , ? Oh there are in none,,,,

Stop the lies ! ! ! !

[majinish]

@gatoron2595 Nahom (1 Nephi chapter 1) was found in 1994, the Mayan temples talk about a bearded white god that came out of the heavens here to the Americas, there's proof all around that the Book of Mormon is true. it's close-minded people like you that are too ignorant to see it

[jayhawk88z]

@majinish mormon stalworths can't accsept the facts

[Bradzombiecommunist]

I have grown up in this religion my entire life... everything they believe in is a disgusting mental disorder... and they think it takes place in centeral america or something... down the coast of mexico is where they think that the lamanites and nephites came from.. they believe this guy named nephi sailed from jerusaliam... becuase they think it was the promised land... this religion is the most disgusting thing on this planet and is simply phycological pollution... it has no credibility. lies

[momoboy2010]

@Bradzombiecommunist

so you are saying Nephi or Lehi never existed? If Nephi and Lehi never existed, why do we find their names in the record of the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon bears witness to nephi and Lehi because their names are very evident in the Book of Mormon... same with Jesus. The Book of Mormon talks about Jesus throughout the book of mormon...therefore the book of mormon is another testament of Christ.

so simple

[RENFEMikado]

this book of mormon is like something out of Lord of the rings.... it sounds like quite a fanciful tale...

[dominicanplagueboy]

I just know something and it doesnt matter how much you try to deny it and is as that the book of mormon is real and many people dont notice they are serving to satan purposes so ask yourselves what scares you about mormonism pray to the lord with real faith confirm if what mormons do is wrong

[brfootballrocks123]

zarahemla is located in present day guatamala.

[Outlaw1257]

Brfootbalrocks123 Wrote:

zarahemla is located in present day guatamala.

Sure it is!! And the City of Nephi is located by the merry-go-round at Wally World!!

And, the archaeological evidence is where?? Surely, the skeletal remains discovered there should put the DNA issue to rest!!

Yeah, RIGHT!!

[imtherealthing]

AGAIN...

Nice try liar...I have the e-mails if anyone is interested in finding out the truth...this guy will not respond to the rebuttals provided and POINT OUT the flaws...your lies will be exposed...by anyone e-mailing me here at Youtube...I can PROVE it....lol..LIAR...so typical of your kind.

[brfootballrocks123]

i just wrote that for fun cause i knew someone like you would freak out and take it seriously.. thanks for proving my point though

[Outlaw1257]

Brballrocks;

When I first read your post, something in the back of my mind mhad me wondering about that!!

It's not a matter of "freaking out", it's just that I receive some pretty far-fetched PM's from Mormons with outlandish claims.

Anyway, looks like the slightly belated "April Fool's" trick is on me!! Good on'ya!!

Peace Out!!

[thefireministry2010]

LOL No it's located at Disney World lol

[1313babygirl13]

@thefireministry2010 lol

[john146only]

why did the experts mention that, bfootball?

[brfootballrocks123]

no your mom did

[amaxamon]

This is true about the BOM, but very misleading about the Bible. It makes it sound as if the Biblical narrative is bolstered by physical evidence. Not so. The Bible stories reference real places, but it's narrative often departs from the narrative revealed by archeology (the Exodus for one). Sorry.

[JAMRAND]

There is evidence for the exodus.

sorry.

[amaxamon]

What evidence? Where?

I've never been able to find any, other than weak circumstantial evidence. Please illuminate me.

[JAMRAND]

Ok I will Illuminate you LOL

Watch "evidence for the exodus "

[amaxamon]

No thanks. I spent many years researching real archeology for evidence. There is none. The facts overturned my Christian apologetics. Find me actual, direct evidence. If you can.

[JAMRAND]

No thanks, you are not looking for evidence you are only trying to refute it.

There is actually more evidence for the exodus than there is for the extrapolation of evolution.

You accept one but refuse the other only because you have no interest in being held accountable.

[muncastro]

Sorry, those words were addressed to Christians who and accepted the SAME gospel and the same important truths. That does not apply in this case, Thus, I am not admonished at all.

Now read Galations 1:6-9.

Consider YOURSELF to be admonished.

[muncastro]

I looked at it, but I did not have time to wade through a book written in 1900 to go on a scavenger hunt.  There are plenty of things in the Bible that have been confirmed by archeology. It is, however, far more difficult to confrim something that happened thousands of years ago than a huge event that happened in 400 a.d. If a great battle occured then at Cumorah the evidence is still there. Go find it. Dunce yourself.

[freedombolt]

I sent you the links but you seem to be hung up on Cumorah. I can't prove archeologically that the BOM is true but I can certainly prove that there was a highly evolved society thriving in the continental US, Canada and down through mesoamerica in the times refered to in the BOM. Here's one for you. Ever heard of Solomon? David? Great kingdoms supposedly weilding all sorts of might and power in the world. Where's the evidence they existed? Any writings? Artifacts? Manuscripts? Hmmm? Crap!

[muncastro]

And they had all kinds of metals swords and spears, right? You are dreaming. There are Egyptian writings that confirm an ancient kingdom of Israel. Archeologists know where Jericho was (unlike most places named in BOM) and found evidence of battles and fallen walls. Even so, all that took place a long time before 400 a.d. (which is really not that long ago). If a huge battle took place then, it should be easy to demonstrate. Should be no need to speculate.

[freedombolt]

Another thing, I didn't expect you to read the whole thing. If you look closely I gave you a series of specific pages to look at. When people criticize the story of the BOM with one thing like horses and then it's proven an unreliable attack vehicle they jump in the next one and the next one until they come to the "smoking gun".

I am a dunce for carrying on this conversation for as long as I have.

Goodbye.

[muncastro]

You are not really a stupid person,although you say many stupid things. You are just a person who is hopelessly brainwashed. If you would just learn to think for yourself, probably you could something far greater than a dunce. But you won't. And that is what is so very sad.

[freedombolt]

Time will tell Sigmund.

[muncastro]

I am Sigmund Freud. Jews sailed to N.America,having horses and steel. The Jews were fair, like Aryans. The bad ones had their skin darkened becoming Indians. The fair Jews left a record on gold plates written in reformed Egyptian. JS translated by putting a stone in a hat and placing the hat over his face. The words appeared magically. Egyptians were black cuz they descended from cursed Cain and Ham. God has a body and lives near Kolob. Maybe in time youll want to live in the real world.

[freedombolt]

You win. I am bailing out. Titus 3:9-10 Consider yourself admnonished.

[muncastro]

First, I hardly think that a book written in 1900 is exactly "cutting edge." 2nd, as I stated earlier, I am not at all interested in South American or Meso-American archeology. JS believed he was writing about stuff that occurred between Cumorah and the Rockies. 3rd why make this difficult? The LDS owns Cumorah. If a great battle took place there as late as 400 a.d., I guarantee you that you could find traces of that great battle. That LDS won't dig speaks volumes.

[freedombolt]

When was the Bible written? Cutting edge indeed. You are a dunce. I wrote that there is a ton of USA archeological evidence. Ever hear of the moundbuilders? You didn't even look at the stuff I sent you.

Hey, did you hear the discovery channel is running episodes essentially refuting that the exodus ever happened? That Israelites never were slaves in egypt? They've got "proof" or actually what they would refer to as a lack of evidence. Why make this difficult God? Show yourself now!

[freedombolt]

Muncastro:

I'll send two links to your personal mail that if you love archeological evidence will be great. Warning though. They address the "problems" critics use against the BOM. If you're really objective you'll read them.

[muncastro]

If LDS would get rid of Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price and would admit that the BOM is ficitious I would raise no serious objection to their having it as a part of their cannon. But they lie about its being historical; thus I have to think their inspiration comes from the Father of Lies and not the Spirit of Truth.

[muncastro]

You are completely missing the point. No one is asking LDS to prove every single detail of the BOM. The problem is you can't prove the historicity of ANY detail regarding the "Hebrews" settling in North America. As I said earlier, the LDS owns Cumorah. Should be simple to excavate Cumorah and find evidence that a great battle took place there as recently as 400 a.d. God does not require us to be brain dead. Show us the artifacts, or be forever quiet about the historicity of BOM.

[freedombolt]

Folks, I know you want to see the plates. I know you want to see a stone unearthed that says, "I mormon wrote this record and lived among my people here in this land"

Well you know what, the Jews want to see Jesus' resurected body with the nail prints. The athiests want God to part the clouds and shout, "Here I am!" Do you remember what faith is? Why didn't Jesus come the first time in all his glory and silence the Pharasees? God could answer a lot of things but he leaves faith in the equation.

[muncastro]

All the stuff about Meso America is totally irrelevant. Smith clearly thought the events of BOM occurred in North America. He prophesied over a dead Indian whom Smith said was a white Lamanite known from Cumorah to the Rocky Mountains. LDS owns Cumorah. Why won't they dig up something from the two great battles fought there to show that BOM is based on some semblance of historicity? The reason is, they can't! Only the ignorant or the hopelessly brainwashed could ever believe the BOM.

[freedombolt]

Feel better now?

[muncastro]

It's not about my feelings. It's about acknowledging the truth, which you seem to be unable to do.

There is none so blind as he who will not see.

[freedombolt]

You vent to validate your own position.

If you'd like to compare the gospel of mainstream christianity to the one taught in the LDS Church I'd be happy to oblige. Most people just want to talk about wives, gods, underwear, "false prophecies", different Christs ect......How about the purpose of life? Want to start there? Tell me what it is. Why are we here?

[muncastro]

And you don't think that false prophecies; different Christ or the Historicity of BOM and Book of Abraham are important? You don't worship a God of Truth? LDS has many opportunities to verify some of its claims. Archaeology? A dead end. Genetics? Indians aren't Jews. Original BOA manuscripts? Book of Breathings; nothing to do with Abraham. Ditto for the facsimiles. You place your faith on a web of patent lies lies and more lies. You do not worship a God of Truth.

[freedombolt]

Translation:

You don't want to talk doctrine.

Glad I could offer you a place to vent.

So, you believe what you believe because of man and signs? Isn't that what archeological evidence and other empirical evidence originate from and are? What did Christ have to say about that; the learning of men and wisdom of men? You'd do yourself some good to consider exactly what it is that you are putting your faith in. What happens tomorrow if they discover something that "proves" the Bible wrong?

[muncastro]

Since you "translated" me, let me return the favor.

Translation of your entire last post: You would rather believe obvious lies than embrace the Truth.

Jesus never asked his followers to do that.

Sadly your position can be summarized by the following words: There is none so blind as he who will not see.

[freedombolt]

There is none so blind as he who will not see. No saybacks!

Are you for real?

[muncastro]

The Book of Mormon is not for real. The Book of Abraham is not for real. Yet you stake your life on those things.

Are you sure YOU are for real?

[freedombolt]

Yeah they are real. I think you meant TRUE. (You'd be wrong there too.) Tell me why you believe the Bible is true? Archeology? That's all this video is based in. History and archeology. So by that reasoning the Quran is true. The Tipitaka, the Budhist Holy Book, must be true. Budha did exist and we have archeological evidence of the places he lived and taught ect....must be true then.

[muncastro]

No by real I meant non fictitious. The Quran (similar to doctrine and covenants) has little narrative in it. But, I am prepared to believe the Quran contains more historiticity than BOM. One reason I do not base my faith on Q* is (unlike Jesus) Mohammed disgusts me. He raised an army; raided caravans; killed the innocent and had sex with teenage girls. BTW Smith also raised an army; ransaked a printing press; played with the occult; had sex with other men's wives and teenage girls.

[freedombolt]

So the Budhist Holy Book? Your issue with it? Was Budha a "bad dude" too and that's your reasoning for rejecting it?

As to the killing innocents, ransacking and such.....ever read the OT brother? If not, hold on to your sombrero becasue your in for a shocker!

[muncastro]

I like Buddha. So no, Buddha's being bad is not my reason for not being a Buddhist. I am not comfortable with everything Hebrew rulers did. At least they did not hold people for ransom under threat of death as did Mohamed. And despite polygamy generally exhibited higher sexual morality than either Smith or Mohammad. The later Hebrew prophets generally had higher morality than the rulers. Of course Jesus' virtue is impeccable. I am Christian, not Jewish.

[freedombolt]

Lot's daughters slept with him. David, "a man after Gods own heart", lusted after Bathsheba and had her husband killed. Reuben slept with his fathers concubine. Judah, the fourth son, had sexual relations with his own daughter-in-law....Now, you say you're a Christian and not a Jew. Do Christians reject the God of the OT? Do Christians reject Israel and his sons as men of God? As Gods chosen people? They shed a lot of peoples blood as well; often sanctioned by God.

So why believe the Bible?

[muncastro]

Just because someone did something in the OT does not mean that it was even sanctioned by God. For example, David's actions were condemned by the prophet Nathan and were severely punished. Only Jesus was filled perfectly with Grace and TRUTH. TRUTH is what I find severely lacking in BOM or Mormonism.

[freedombolt]

Was the sacking of Jericho sanctioned by God?

If you are sincere you've got to admit that there are aparent, I use that word on purpose, attrocities commited that were indeed sanctioned and even commanded by God.

Point is, you condemn JS and others and yet I bet you read Psalms and think it quite lovely and true. Are you going to throw out any scripture that was penned by David? Solomon? God himself?

[muncastro]

I find the Bible, particularly the Old Testament, to be even embarrassingly truthful. The writers made no attempt to hide the foibles of their heroes. David, for example, knew he had done wrong and later sorrowfully repented. The only one who had perfect revelation from God, the Father, and who perfectly embodied God's character was Jesus. Again I say that truthfulness is what I find sorely lacking in LDS.

[freedombolt]

What truthfulness? We started out this conversation by you saying that JS and Mohameds religions could not be true because of their personal character and moral flaws. I point out that there is ample evidence of "moral flaw" in the Bible among Gods people and you sweep it away and dismiss it. The question should be, how do we find truth then? I say not through archeology or the arm of flesh as this set of videos advocates. Those things are not trivial but are not proof of truth either.

[muncastro]

No we started this conversation by discussing the fact that BOM is founded on lies. In the Jewish religion God's people in the Old Testament are on an equal (actually superior) plane to Jesus. In Christianity that is not so. Jesus' character and sacrifice assumes primacy over every thing and everyone else. Jesus said that he expected greater righteousness from his followers than anyone in the Old Testament. Smith certainly did not do that and seemed to be inspired by the Father of lies.

[freedombolt]

Lies meaning no archeological evidence? If you're going back to the original thread of this conversation that's what you'd have to mean. You then proceeded to tell me that the reason you believe the Bible over BOM or Quran is because of the immorality of the authors. I point out that Bible authors were equally immoral and you dismiss and go back to square one. So I ask again, why do you believe the Bible then?

[muncastro]

Again you have mistranslated me. I said that I embraced Christianity because I am attracted to the person of Jesus Christ. It is true that Mohamed and JS look downright grotesque and repulsive next to Him. I pointed out a number of ways (archeology being one) that LDS could prove JUST ONE of their claims, but they have all proven fruitless. LDS has BYU and archeologists working for them trying desperately to prove something about BOM and BOA is true. To no avail. Thus you disparage arch*

[freedombolt]

What did Christ have to say about empirical evidence? Signs and the learning of men? Not good things I'll warn you. If you base your belief in the Bible and it's reliability on empirical evidence you must also condeed that Budhists are following a true gospel. Just because the people, places and times can be verified in and of themselves are not proof that the doctrines and teachings surrounding those things are true. Find what Jesus said about the aquisition of truth. It's in the Bible.

[muncastro]

I can show you numbers of scriptures when he talked about learning through observing things. If you buy a house and you eliminate one because it does not have a good kitchen; that does not mean I am going to buy every house that has one. When I eliminate LDS because it is founded on lies and is obviously inspired by the father of lies; that does not mean I am going to accept other religions that are related to real history and real places. Your premise is fallacious.

[muncastro]

Further, your line of argument is hypocritical. LDS owns BYU for gosh sakes. Professors there are trying hard to use empirical evidence to apologize for the LDS. Because they haven't come up with anything you can use, you engage in this silly whining about empirical evidence being no good etc. etc. The is an Aesop's fable about spoiled grapes you might want to read sometime.

[freedombolt]

FYI. I think that ANYONE including LDS who use archeological findings or lack thereof for evidence either for or against doctrine and teaching being true are missing the boat. If you spent even a tenth of the time trying to prove the BOM true as you try spending to disprove it you'd be shocked at what archeological evidence is available that does not "prove" the BOM true but sure lends huge credibility to it. You've fallen victim to Satans propoganda machine.

[muncastro]

Like the ex LDS scholar in one of this series of videos who spent his time trying to prove Mormonism and was shocked at the evidence against the claims of Mormonism? So shocked that he left the church. No thank you. I don't want to but my head against the wall.

You really don't have to be a scholar or rocket scientist. Just take your shovel to Cumorah and dig. If there really was a huge battle circa 400 a.d. you are bound to find something. It is you who are victim to the Father of Lies.

[freedombolt]

"My premise" is the premise of this video and their reason for the bible being true and BOM being false. So is their premise fallacious?

[muncastro]

Still don't get it do you? Your fallacy is that a person is allowed only one criterion to eliminate something from consideration. So that, if something passes one test, you must embrace it and you may not test it by something else. BOM and BOA does not pass the truth test with respect to its history or geography. That does not mean that any other religion which does better on that test must be accepted. Are you intentionally being obtuse?

[flowerheimer]

Seriously, people. One day you will know the Book of Mormon is true. It was a record. Joseph Smith translated it by the power of God. If I remember correctly, Joseph Smith said that even for him, it would be hard for him to believe (that someone saw God and Jesus Christ)but he knew that it was true. He knew that he HAD in fact, seen Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ.

[ammonweezer]

faith is seeing with out believing. You just admitted that you need to see it before you will believe it. Talk about great faith!

[broomxx]

Mormonism and Christianity are both error-filled, contradictory belief systems. The New Testament is brimming with mistakes, contradictions and errors. Why believe in an inferior sequel when you can go to the source, the Torah?

[dakilangduca]

If youre questioning Nephi existence in ancient america, can you also prove to me that Garden of Eden really existed before? Same logic.

[redheadguy20]

Wrong, Garden of Eden had absolutly nothing that could be left behind, such as buildings or artifacts. Nephi should have something, swords, pots,pans, ruins, bones, anything, but yet it does not have anything. That is why no Historian or Archaeologist will consider it to be a real society. A bunch of plants verses a civilization is not the same logic. Plants get destroyed. Civilizations make things that are left behind. That is why we know Babylon, Cannan, Sodam, Gamora, Aztecs, etc existed.

[freedombolt]

You know the sites of Sodom and Gomorah? You ought to publish your findings cause you'd be the first to pinpoint those cities location.

[redheadguy20]

Google Sodomo and Gomorah and you will find all of the information you need on there actual location. I keep trying to post the websites so you can simply copy and paste them in your browser but youtube will not post my comment. Also check out the history channel, they did a special about sodom and gomorah and their location, and have actually found it. Funny how they have yet to do any specials reguarding the mormon church's historical site. But then again they would need evidence for that.

[freedombolt]

Right. I forgot that the internet is the new standard of Truth. I can also google proof that alien abductions happen, Elvis is still alive and Jesus has already returned and is gathering his flock as we speak. Nobody has credible evidence of the actual location of Sodom and Gomorah. It would be front page news if true. Or are the evil anti-christs suppressing it? Maybe so.

If you actually study and read the BOM it is evidence enough.

[redheadguy20]

Funny I studied the BOM and the BIBLE. Since the Bible came first well before the BOM, do you remember in the bible reading anywhere that says after the book is written I will send down and angel and he will show more truths that I never mentioned before and it will confirm that the BIBLE is true. I don't remember reading anything along the lines of that. And if Jesus revealed himself to the S.A. then where is the evidence of this? Or did Jo Smith forget about the Spanish sharing Catholicism?

[freedombolt]

In revelations, what is the Angel flying through the air bringing? The everlasting gospel? What's that? And why is he bringing it if it's already here?

You don't understand the gospel and it seems you're not prepared to learn it right now. I read your other comments and it appears all you want to do is argue. Well, find somebody else. When you're ready to discuss DOCTRINE not point fingers then you know how to reach me.

[redheadguy20]

I checked my concordance in revelation and found many Angel's flying through the air bringing the Judgments from God and prophecy to John, however I did not read the part of everlasting Gospel. Maybe I overlooked something, but can you please give me a reference to that. I have no problem discussing doctrine, just know I do not believe in doctrine I believe in the Bible. And I am not pointing fingers, all I am saying is prove it. Bible says all are created equal. BOM says otherwise why?

[freedombolt]

Rev 14:6

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth.

You don't believe doctrine? Why do you believe the Bible if not for doctrine? Proof? What did Jesus say regarding proof and how does faith fit in to that?

Christ taught that those who follow him will come to know the truth. Not those who prove via tangible evidence and then believe. Remember Thomas? What did Christ tell him?

[redheadguy20]

And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;and he said with a loud voice, "Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters. Rev6-7

You are absolutely right LDS has the new word of God and this verse proves it. J/k Don't believe in doctrine b/c it twist the Bible around.

[freedombolt]

What reference in the Bible are you using when you say all are created equal? What one in the BOM says otherwise. I'll be happy to comment on them.

[freedombolt]

Also, I saw the History Channel documentary you refer to. They never said they found it. They always used phrases like, "could this be the site" and "speculate" and other such phrases. No conclusive evidence or proof.

[redheadguy20]

You sure about that? I think that you may have saw that with your church leaders, where they cut everything out to make something appear what they want it to be and not what is real. You see LDS and BOM says that no one really goes to Hell. Just the people who saw God and did not do what he says go to a place like hell. There is what 3 levels of heaven and everyone goes to one, but no one goes to hell. Just satan right? Funny though how the bible says differently.

[flowerheimer]

Um, hi. How many buildings are left in the Americas? How many artifacts? There are plenty. There are lots of temples left. The Nephites and Lamanites lived.

[redheadguy20]

Um, Hi. Is there any evidence of those artifacts and buildings relating to Nephites and Lamanites? No. Is there any Historian that is not a Mormon that believes that what the book of mormon says is true? No. Will the church of LDS allow anyone to dig on any of there historical sites? No. But if they did exist then we would have come across something by now don't you think.

[dakilangduca]

And one thing is missing with your research. Dont just talk with people around you, they are all subject to incorrection. But Im pretty sure that If you ask the One who owns the message, and who owns the Church, then you will be so sure.

I tried it several times. Ive been a missionary. I saw miracles.

[edgarmadrigalejos]

mob doesnt have place on earth

[SpeckCipher]

Why does the map portraied for the BM look like Michagan?

[SpeckCipher]

Does user CultFree look at these or respons under a different name such as FAITHandLOGIC created the 3rd of may just to argue on this channel? •☻•

[FAITHandLOGIC]

I'm not "CultFree". Creating your own truths again?

[SpeckCipher]

Sorry, I wasn't sure if you were or not. At the time you only were looking at his chanel.

10 to date is now your number. I just thought I'd ask if you were. Thanks for letting me know.

[c11towns]

I was going to join the LDS church but i had a little problem with there blind faith

They believe EVERYTHING the church tells them. The LDS church will run your life even in your ubed room and your thoughts.

I quit the church

So no more surprise visits and calls from missionaries.

I think joseph smith was just looking for money and p--sy and he got caught up in the the religious stuff i just wish he had got his story straight even if it was a lie.

[dakilangduca]

I dont know why Living Hope tells themselves that they love Mormon people and then producing ANTI-MORMON crap?LDS love them, they dont produce anti-living hopeministries videos

[FAITHandLOGIC]

Yes, the familiar battle cry of the MORmONS. "THAT'S ANTI-MORMON"

Give us a break. DS started this fight by saying that all Christians are "Abominations". Well, you obviously can't back up any of your claims so you scream persecution when we prove that the LDS is nothing more than a pathetic cult.

[edgarmadrigalejos]

Well. I would reather have the right to say GIVE US A BREAK. LDS CHurch will continue to progress anyway. =)

[FAITHandLOGIC]

Actually, more people are leaving the church now than ever. The truth about LDS is all over the Internet for anyone who gets curious.

And even if your church was still progressing, it doesn't make it true.

[SpeckCipher]

Truth is subjective to ones point of veiw. Any thing can be written on the internet, true or false. For example; the world is flat. People can only see so far and the edge is realy far away. It is round like the moon which is also flat and every one can see that becuse the face never changes... This point of view was pushed by the sword from those who called themselvs Christians.

"If they are true to the cross, they will not take it into a fight." Jesus the Christ

[FAITHandLOGIC]

"Truth is subjective to ones point of veiw"

That is the biggest load of crap. You sound like some new age nut job. Everyone is not entitled to create their own truth.

[SpeckCipher]

But people do based on what they know, or their point of veiw. If this was not so we would not be having this conversation.

Nice hair.

[edgarmadrigalejos]

why dont you think widely and ponder deeply that even you worst people destroy mormon time will come you will not be succeed

[FAITHandLOGIC]

Punctuation please. I have no idea what you're talking about.

[dakilangduca]

Thats true. Thats why a lot of people are having wrong conception about the LDS Church. Perhaps its because they often find information from wrong places. If I will be investigating LDS Church, I will talk to an LDS Church representative, not to a Baptist pastor or to a Living Hope minister. This video is an example of something a non-member should not rely on. You see its so biased. Period.

[FAITHandLOGIC]

No offense, but that is ridiculous. If a crime is committed, are you going to get all of your information from the suspect? No! You interview witnesses and run a background check, etc.

I'm not just going to take the LDS word for everything. I have first hand experience of missionaries lying to my face. They're taught to not reveal certain things until the proper time. That is manipulation. I will talk to LDS but also do my own research of its history and talk to those who left the church.

[dakilangduca]

No offense, but I think that is something more ridiculous. How did you know who's the suspect? How would you know who's telling the truth and the lie? Gospel speaking, you would have a double hard time determining which one teaches the truth and which one teaches false doctrine. NO! Gospel truths can never be validated by endless arguments and word of mouth.

[FAITHandLOGIC]

Are you for real? So according to your logic we should just listen to the LDS and call it a day to avoid a "double hard time"? I seriously hope that you do not work in the legal system.

[a2wPublicAffairs]

So i just wish im not working in a legal system. I bet accusing LDS Church as the suspect is a double-hard time effort.

[dakilangduca]

Thats why we dont believe that Bible alone can save us.

The Bible along with continuous revelation can guide us these days.

And yes, we will continue to do Temple and Family History work,

its because we love our family and we wanna be with them for eternity. I think that is something Traditional Christianity needs to know.

[dakilangduca]

I believe that the restored gospel is simple and beautiful, subtle and uplifting. And I dont think LDS missionaries manipulated you, you see, they did nothing against you. They shared their message, declared their testimonies and gave you the freedom to choose. If you decline then, its just so happen that you're not ready to receive the restored gospel.

[FAITHandLOGIC]

They were unable to manipulate me because I already knew the truth. Thankfully I got my information from an outside source. And their testimonies are all the same. "I read it, prayed about it and the Holy Ghost revealed to me that it is true". It's like listening to a pre-recording.

The LDS is a cult, plain and simple. I've done enough research and reading where I can discredit every claim that it makes that contradicts Biblical teaching.

[a2wPublicAffairs]

I respect your so called "logic" and "research". I just hope you think about it, prayed about it, and the Holy Ghost has revealed it to you that it is true, that the LDS is a plain cult. Well, accusing LDS Church as a plain cult is something you should have considered on your research.

LDS is cult.

Mormon Church is cult.

They are not Christians.

Because you know, for most latter-day Saints, its like listening to a pre-recording.

[FAITHandLOGIC]

That's because you're not Christians. Joseph Smith called the Christians "Abominations of God" and Brigham Young called them "Whores of Babylon".

Now all of a sudden you want to be them? The Bible says nothing of a pre-existence, becoming a God, God was once a man or being married in Heaven.

Just go on w/ your baptisms for the dead and practing Masonic temple rituals thinking they're from God.

[dakilangduca]

So you're considering yourself a true Christian huh? Joseph Smith and Brigham Young refer those phrases with Traditional Christianity. Something that LDS Church do not follow. Thats similar to what former LDS Church president Hinckley emphasized recently when he said that we dont believe in traditional Christ. But LDS believe in Resurrected and Living Christ.

[dakilangduca]

And yes, all of a sudden we want to be with them.

Are you sure the Bible doesnt talk about pre-existence?

about us becoming like our Father? that God was once a man?

Have you really done your research as accurate as possible?

[FAITHandLOGIC]

Yes I am 100% sure.

Yes I have done my research as accurate as possible.

And YES, I am well aware of the Biblical verses that you Mormons spin and twist to make it sound like there was a pre-existence.

It's typical for Mormons to deliberately read out of context for the purpose of supporting their own docrines.

[dakilangduca]

Well, I believe from where I have been before I came here. You know there is something more. I know that you would claim you are "100%" sure of the accuracy of your research. I wouldnt question that. But your faith and logic doesnt mean your are right. Let me remind you of my earlier post, that LDS do not believe in the Bible alone. But LDS Believe in the Bible and the Book of Mormon and continuous revelation. Our God is not a silent god. But a communicating God.

[redheadguy20]

Interesting to note that LDS believe in both the Bible and the Book of Mormon, yet the two books are completely opposite and its literature does not in any way agree with each other. For example: Jesus was asked when a man dies and leaves his wife to his brother who will she be with in heaven? Jesus said neither. Yet LDS believe that they can seal themselves to relatives and family members, in order to be with them forever in eternity. So can you tell me why God would say 2 different things?

[dakilangduca]

LDS do believe in both Bible and the Book of Mormon. These two scriptures clear out most misconceptions Bible alone cannot defend. Thats why there a lot of denominations conflicting each other yet using only one book. The primary purpose of the BOM is to make known to all people that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God (introduction). I dont think contradicts with what is written in the Bible. And what can I say to ur example about eternal relationships? Read: 1 Cor 11:11

[redheadguy20]

1 Corinthians 11:11says However, in the Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. If you read the passage this is referring to being alive on earth. Matthew 22:23-33 is talking about the afterlife. Which I was referring to. Again your practice does not agree with the bible. Your statement above about denominations, they just interpret the bible differently. I do not agree with that as well. But back to LDS, no Historian,Arck.. Can even prove Nephi existed ever

[dakilangduca]

See, you even have your own interpretation of a single verse in the Bible. Thats why misconception and confusion about gospel doctrines arise. I dont question God's capability to unite and seal families for eternity in His holy temples. For me, its really one of the best motivations to follow Christ, that I can be with my family for all eternity and that marriage doesnt only end with death. Again, what your're trying to imply doesnt make any impact.

[rromoboy22]

No, I'm sure the Bible doesn't talk about "pre-existence". The only thing we (people) are like our Father is our love. Because of his love he came/sent down Jesus to Earth as a man and died for our sins, the price, NOTHING.

[SpeckCipher]

Whats more interesting it that when science proves the bible and that same science prove the book of mormon, people throw out the sicence that proved the bible as they do now with DNA. Its just like ignoring the citties, coins, and hebrew found in america.

[FAITHandLOGIC]

Science has never proven the BoM. Stop listening to the Mormon church who want your tithes.

[SpeckCipher]

I'm listening to athiests who could care less. Tithes go to buildings, utilities, and those who need the support from time to time. A report is made public of where the money goes.

They are not used to buy boats, sports cars, and women unlike other churches that say they believe in christ and spout of a few words but then do opposit of what christ said to do.

[FAITHandLOGIC]

All "BoM evidence" has been produced by the Mormon church itself or Mormon organizations like FAIR or FARMS from BYU.

Independant organizations like the Smithsonian or National Geographic agree on the historical validity of the Bible. But both have put out official statements stating that they have never found anything to substantiate BoM claims of Israeli tribes or the cities that at one time existed in the Americas.

Stop lying to yourself. It's pathetic.

[SpeckCipher]

The majority of things I know of that support the BM have been found by people not of my faith. Unfortunelty when published they have been ignored, forgoten, and destroied. Bigger things are that prove the BM, if I toled you here, would be distroied.

Joseph smith siad that the world will prove the BM true at the end. If FAIR or FARMS did it then old joe would be wrong. It's a good thing they are looking in the wrong spot.

[FAITHandLOGIC]

So what are they? Give us the evidence.

By the way, Joseph Smith said a lot of things ... prophecies actually. And NONE of the them came true.

[SpeckCipher]

So the civil war did not happen, he wasn't killed, people are not calling the LDS church a cult, and they are not being shot, like a few days ago?

Hear say is one thing. What is written is another and who wrote it is important.

[SpeckCipher]

Evidence of Mormonism? Pt1-3 is from a guy who is not LDS but looks at the possibility of the valitity of the BM. He has found things that I didn't. Irocialy the location of the DNA in question is in the location of his indicated culture.

This is just one that is allowed public knowlege. There is more.

[SpeckCipher]

Evidence of Mormonism? Pt1-3 are youtube videos.

[edgarmadrigalejos]

you know when you treat mormon like this its almost the same w/ GOD

[SpeckCipher]

Smithsonian. Oh, if you only knew.

If I could have those official statments, from them and not from one who could twist, I would be very greatful.

[SpeckCipher]

I siad the the same scientce that proves the Bible aslo proves the BM. You would be surprized what has been found but not made public knowlege Even in the LDS church for example, DNA that is linked to the tribe of joseph has been found in America.

The first thing one does when invading it stop communication. Same is with the Devil.

If you don't believe me, ask God. If you don't, the devil has won.

[FAITHandLOGIC]

"Even in the LDS church for example, DNA that is linked to the tribe of joseph has been found in America."

BOLD FACED LIE! Mormons .... oy vey. Cultists are so ignorant.

[SpeckCipher]

Is that your responce for every thing,"its a lie."

I have a video to back up my claim. It only covers one of the two DNA's. The information is from the horses mouth and would be accepted in the acidemic comunity if not for the fact that others got the information and left out a few important facts such as the DNA in question came from the middle east. The only argument agaist it says that the Bible is a lie.

[Baroque1750]

Hmmm....it seems that these men of faith are trying to ue science against the Book of Mormon...most interesting.