New World Order, Early Christian Orders, Mason & Mormons (2)

[Pnkbong]

US Government is already owned by Goldman Sachs.

[reychavez1]

@striker look now sir you don't know me or my heart. You believe that we will all be judged at the judgement seat of Christ as revealed through J Smith. I am a man of faith and believe in the divine heavenly salvation of God in Christ. I will be judged at the Throne of Yeshua not of Joseph Smith. That's all I have to say. Oh and one more thing, there never was any curse except that of sin. If you knew Jesus you would know your church has no ground to stand on as far as removing imaginary curses

[strikerhiryu]

JustinMartyrJr, you're a brother in faith and in preservation of Constitution. Keep fighting the good fight!

[reychavez1]

There are many who are color blind and many who are not. When you can prove archaelogically that your book is true then I'll consider its validity. Until then I see your church as trying to rob us of who we are. The winner writes the history books but god does not support lies

[JustinMartyrJr]

rey." "When you can prove archaeologically that your book is true then I'll consider its validity." What would be "prove"? Give an example.

[JustinMartyrJr]

Would archaelogical proof be to find samples of the same types of characters on ancient artifacts that date back to time of BOM?

Would a list of examples of ancient writings on metallic plates, of different types be proof?

Would archaeological proof of Christ's world wide trek be acceptable? Or are we to accept the early anti-Christian charge that Christ was neglectful of other nations & people?

Would the findings of corn, barley, horses, elephant remains, & other artifacts be acceptable?

[strikerhiryu]

reychavez1, you don't know what are you talking about.

Try to study with sincere heart first and then you will be able to recognize who is the real deceiver.

[reychavez1]

Paul was a man commended by the first twelve apostles. Joseph Smith was not. To make that comparison is ludacris. Have a good and blessed life Justin. Im not coming back here no more you fog up the issue not deal with it. That is just like a mormon. Bye I wont be back no more. Your points are a waste of time and do not deal with the issues nor answer the questions that I've asked you. bye

[strikerhiryu]

Joseph Smith received the Melchisedek priesthood from Peter, James and John, the resurrected apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ.

[reychavez1]

You seem to believe that we must build on the european traditions in order to be valid. My faith is borne out of a personal relationship and through divine revelations of who he is. I don't rely on the arguments or claims of those traditions to dictate to me what or who god is or must be. I am a man and unlike some others I know how to think for myself. My faith sets me free from the strangulation of those doctrines that preached hate against people like me.

[reychavez1]

You seem to think that I believe in the same christ as those earlier racist christians lol No I believe in the true christ who takes all men to himself. My beliefs are not what you keep trying to make them out to be. But i give you an a for effort though. I disagree with many earlier european christian ideas. By you trying to fit me in with who they are or by assuming that my faith and theirs is in any way similar is laughable at best

[reychavez1]

You still haven't adressed the fact that your church removed the curse 30 years ago. That's not an appology. Like I said before you can't adress these things cuz you can't explain them away. I'm not an ignorant man. You seem to want to try to insinuate that I am because you have no answers. Look justin have a blessed life and may god bless you but not your way. Pray god you wake up one day. I am not a european christian and their tradition is not mine you can villify whom you please

[JustinMartyrJr]

rey.: "church removed curse 30 years ago." If you believe in Bible, who'd also have to asked why God only let Levities hold priesthood in Moses' day? Why weren't Greeks, etc., not let into temple that Christ, Apostles & followers were going into? Then Paul, writing to Hebrews, let em in & caused controversy. Speaks of changes in priesthood. Why did Christ come down to just one people & not go to others? Was he neglectful of other races? What is the fate of billions dead who knew not Christ?

[reychavez1]

Two mormons were quoted just before the removal of the curse of cain in the 70's as saying "we are preaching to the lost lamanite israelites on the reservations and are donated our blood to them hoping that their skin color change to white and delightsome will occur more rapidly". Your church brothers love for us is really hatred. The sad part is that they can't even see and maybe you can't see why that is hate masked as divine intention. How can hate be God's love. Hate for sin yes for man wow!

[JustinMartyrJr]

If your going to make claims to citing 2 LDS you give sources so they can be tracked down & looked at to see their historical setting, etc. It's not going to work here to just make claims that this is what they said. That being said, I'm sure I can give some sources myself.

Misinterpretations, because of lack of ancient understandings of skin color typologies, produced these earlier views.

Hate? No, intent's been, to use Book of Mormon, to get "Lamanites" to accept Christ as Great Spirit.

[reychavez1]

I pray for your enlightenment Justin and hope you see the light of day soon. Racism is wrong Justin. I am angry only that we are still being lied to. liesarentpce We are the losers in that game. Our children learn to hate their skin just so a white person can glorify theirs. Your peace comes at the expense of others. Now Im gonna quote smthing I feel is appropriate here "Jesus spoke do not hinder the little children for the kingdom of god belongs to them" Curses destroy the mind of our children.

[JustinMartyrJr]

I pray that you can get past what seem to be your own prejudices against earlier LDS, who, like Christians of 1800s, were caught up in slavery, & slaughtering Native Americans; have left an inexcusable scar on their children's' children's' childrens, now attempting to get past their forefathers' past. LDS & Christians today, I hope, aren't caught up in what their forefathers did. Are you forgiving of mess they caused upon your people? Are you willing to be, like many of us now, color blind?

[reychavez1]

So to be fair with you I understand why you're referring me to all these facts but I would like you to know that I am well of aware of these already. Look around you justin. In America me and my people are seen as third world. You can't accuse the victims of such treatment as the ones who perpetuate hatred. That is wrong and I am tired of people always tring to turn it around. A change is coming Justin and more than likely the good ole boy system is going to fight it to the end. But its coming.

[JustinMartyrJr]

I hope & pray, that the change that your talking about is a virus of colored blindness. Were all races can forgive each others' forefathers' sins. Where all races can get along & be colored blind. I have black, latin, white, native american, polynesian, Asian friends who we all have learned to work together & set aside our forefathers' bull crap attitudes. We are so sick of the racial wars that goes on. We are sick of the blood still being shed by gangsters' killing each other because of race.

[reychavez1]

Your church bishops have declared that the black skin was leprosy. Others like yourself say it was a misinterpretation. But your church through so-called inspired revelation justified the curse in the 1970's. It seems to me that none of you are on the same page and to follow would be confusion. At best it would be an act of self-degradation on my part to submit to the removal of a racial curse that you yourself are trying so hard to convince me was not the case. You agree w me morethan yourchrch

[JustinMartyrJr]

rev.: "Your church bishops have declared black skin was leprosy." Sources? Who & when? But again, that being said, YES, it's an earlier world view! It's earlier misinterpretation! It's well documented! It's a dark side of LDS history, to have to admit that earlier LDS people misinterpreted "curse" & "black skins" as being literal! When it's symbolic.

If I wanted to vilify Christianity, as Communist Atheists have, I could cite Frederick Douglas' complaints about Christianity during slavery.

[reychavez1]

Justin if you don't respect quotes from the bible that's your perrogative. If you feel or have been taught that every bible believing man or woman is flawed just cause other people, especially those who justified genocide with it, have used it in times past then you're heading down a steep spiritual slope that's hard to recover from. If a man beats you on the head repeatedly and then tells you he loves you after all and demands that you follow him to the promise land then you'd understand me 2dy

[JustinMartyrJr]

Rey.: I've been cited biblical examples of color symbolism in garment typologies. Didn't your read those quotes? That should show you that I have respect for the bible.

[reychavez1]

I am well aware of histories of different churches. For example the catholic church had a black pope named galatius. Later on the catholic church used scripture to enslave blacks and holocaust the native americans (my people) all for profit. So many european churches have distorted God's word to the point that they cannot be held accountable for their actions. Think about this justin six million euro jews died and the whole world is involved. 90 MILLION of myy ancestors dieandyourchurchcursesus.

[reychavez1]

I have observed LDS members. Your family values none can outshine. Your devotion to your word can be equaled by devotees of the biblical tradition only. Your moral stances on many views are parallel to mine in so many ways. But a lie is a lie. Sure nobody's perfect but Him and fault finding is not my goal. But falsehoods are exposed when you walk in His light and He gives you the integrity that other men refuse to acknowledge you. Your church has robbed you of your appology not me.

[reychavez1]

I am not a Catholic. They have reached out to me and I have my own personal issues with the way they worship. I am not a Protestant though I do believe you must be free to become wise. Love for God cannot be forced or iut would be false. But what I'm explaining to you is that your church justified its past with the so-called new race revelation of the 70's. You seem like a good person who wants to get down to the truth. That is my mission in life as well. I am a seeker of truth.

[JustinMartyrJr]

Rey.: As as seeker of truth, if your willing to accept as scripture, former anti-Christian, Saul who became Paul. If you can accept as scripture, a frager, adulterous King David's Psalms. If you can accept as scripture, a once weak Peter. Please be willing to forgive earlier LDS for their faults! Please forgive & now join with us all in attempting to get past the past! To look towards to future, when races from other planets might visit us, because they've seen we're all colored blind.

[reychavez1]

Your church declared a holy revelation in which god told your prophet at that time that he was REMOVING the curse of cain from blacks at that time in 1970's and now the priesthood was open to all people. Tell me Justin why you're appologizing for the misinterpretation and your prophets revelation contradict your explanation. Somebody's not being honest here. God barely removed the curse 30 smthing odd years ago so his revelation gives no justice to your explanation. Are you sure you're LDS

[reychavez1]

Finally Justin now we're getting to the point. I like that fire your tone suddenly took on issues. Now we can talk. I am a forgiving person Justin. What I don't forgive easily is when people try to cover up lies with more lies. I am grateful to you that you acknowledge the error of your father's ways. I have quoted to you quite a few biblical scriptures and none out of context which is what you seem to be implying by my quoting them and others who took them out of context.

[reychavez1]

So in coclusion Justin I just want to say WAKE UP!!! I am not an animal nor are any people on the face of this earth. So you don't need to remind me of dark animal skins etc... Unfortunately some people imitate animalistic behavior and degrade what God has made in His own image. I sincerely hope that you would one day take a step back from all that training you received as a child and look at life through your own independent perspective. Live free and be wise Justin. May God bless you with eyes

[JustinMartyrJr]

rey.: So this is what I getting from you, reychevez1.

You don't like my explanations supported by biblical, Book of Mormon & early Christians examples of color symbolism of black & white skins = garments, being symbolic.

You don't accept my apology & how I've acknowledge earlier LDS & later Christians interpreted such thing as literal, that actual darker races would become white.

And rather than move on & be forgiving, you want to hold modern LDS responsible, who mostly now are colored blind.

[JustinMartyrJr]

rey.: You seem to thus want to continue prejudice racist cycle by justifying your own prejudices against modern LDS. Why? Because of their earlier faulty obviously racists policies. You're OK with biblical Christianity, which had its racial issues during days of slavery too. So, what I'm seeing is Christians, who forget their own forefathers' racists faults, will point out earlier LDS,' so they can justify their own prejudices & discriminate against the modern LDS, who are attempting to change.

[JustinMartyrJr]

rey.: You cite from the bible, & want us to respect it, but those who wrote the New Testament, also had some faulty views too. It was believed by many of them, & early Christians that, those who were born blind, or races of black or darker skin color; cripples, etc., were so born those ways, because they had sinned in their pre-mortal existence, when they were spirits. This was 1 view later rejected at the council of Constantinople, 553 AD.

[JustinMartyrJr]

rey.: 553 AD, If any one says that spiritual beings, in whom divine love grows cold, are covered in grosser bodies like ours & called men, whilst others who reached the summit of evil had received cold & dark bodies, & are called now demons & evil spirits, let him be anathema. Rev. Charles Joseph Hefele, D.D., A History of the Councils of the Church, From the Original Documents, (T. & T. Clark, 38 George Street, USA.: Edinburgh, 1895;1st AMS ed.1972, NY, NY: AMS Press, 1972, 4:226).

[reychavez1]

I wont be back here anymore Justin because I feel that you don't have the right stuff for this debate. You're giving me the runaround with all this justification. Sometimes what can be known is right in front of your face but often we tend to train ourselves to not acknowledge our own impurities and so we stretch our vision towards the impurities of others without justification. Clean the inside of the cup then the rest will be clean. Lies beget lies and you cn't argue w sum1 who believesinthem

[reychavez1]

And the one other thing that confuses me about all your quotes and references is that you keep pointing me to the direction of ancient christian art, literature, etc... Your prophets Joe smith and brigham young both stated that after the apostles died the true faith disappeared from the face of the whole earth and babylon aka catholocism distorted every word of scripture from that point forward. Why do you reference that which was borne out of the babylonian era. Youcan'thaveyour cakeneatittoo

[reychavez1]

One more thing Justin I am well aware of the facts of ancient and modern beliefs. I know the importance of history which is why the only native american mormon apostle of the twelve quit the church after 17 or so years in the mormon church. He stated, and I quote "I can see now that the mormon church is commiting spiritual genocide"" robbing other peoples of their true heritage and giving them a history and heritage that cannot even be proven. He was one of your apostles whorecognized the racism

[reychavez1]

Well Justin I can see that for all intents and purposes you are avoiding my questions. It's typical for a mormon to hide in plain sight. I understand that white robes mean a purified soul. That is not what the intention of your book or others was. Blacks were excluded from the priesthood. As long as there are people who cover up for lies lies and their father will always have a stronghold in this world. A white robe is a call to purity from sin. She shines with the light of God . God is Spirit

[reychavez1]

I would like you to note that the black hebrew israelites who really have suffered four hundred years of oppression in the americas (slavery etc..) also claim that natives are the twelve tribes. They are a black supremist group. Curses for colored people usually mean white supremist. People have painted this world black and white and I don't intend on seeing my people used like pawns in that vicious cycle of ignorance. My beautiful native son will rise above all this perpetuated ignorance

[reychavez1]

Justin if you and all your congregation expected us to become white I would care less because I have grown so very close to my saviour that I would know better than to be shaken by ignorance. Furthermore, it is my duty as a christian and as a man to see that men are free in Christ. Your book has done what so many other groups have done to our people and planted the seeds of self-hate and low self-esteem in the minds of so many people of color. We are waking up. Your time is short. May God Blessu

[reychavez1]

Justin, I sincerely hope that you will be blessed to understand what I'm saying one day. My question to you is this: If your book is speaking of spiritual darkness and light and not skin why does it say in the original text they received a skin of blackness that they might not be appealing to my people. Were they already in glorified bodies by then. If so then the book of mormon is not an earthly historical document but a reach to explain a heavenly one. It hurts to know my people can't see this

[JustinMartyrJr]

rey.: "why does it say in original text they received a skin of blackness"? This should be understood in light of new studies in ancient ritualistic garment typologies. Garments, anciently being made out of animal SKINS. To receive either black or white skins, were symbolic of either progression or retrogression. Either becoming like Christ, whitened, or retrogressing, becoming like Devil, demonified, blackened. It's color symbolism that illustrates 2 extremes in 2 ways, even Christ mentions.

[JustinMartyrJr]

rey.: "skin of blackness"? There's many cases in the Book of Mormon where these ancient colored or whitened skin-garment types were used. Jacob 1:19, they were to preach God's word, do their duty so that "their blood might not come upon our garments." Alma 5 warns church members to "wash their hands," & "except his garments are washed white; yea, his garments must be purified until they are cleansed from all stain," through Christ's blood shed for sins. Alma 5:19-39, etc.

[JustinMartyrJr]

rey.: "skin of blackness"? Taking off of sins, were symbolic of taking off old garments for white & pure ones. Alma 5:28, "are ye stripped of pride?" Note the imagery, stripping off man of sin, putting on a new creature in Christ. Isaiah 1:18"Come now, & let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." Jude 23 mentions "the garment spotted by the flesh." Ancient Color symbolism.

[JustinMartyrJr]

rey.: "skin of blackness"? Rev. 19:8; 13-14"And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean & white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints." In bible we read of those who have a "black heart." In Book of Mormon, those who joined "secret works of DARKNESS," also took part in perverted barbaric rituals. Thus, instead of being clothed in white skins, they were clothed in black skins. Medieval mystery plays tanners, who tan skins black, played parts of demons.

[JustinMartyrJr]

rey.: "skin of blackness"? Thousands of art works throughout historic Christianity show Lucifer as a bright angel before his fall. During war in heaven, & after being thrust out, he & his fallen angels' skins are blackened, changed into monsterous looking creatures. Symbolic of them having put on black skins. Thus, later on, devils were depicted as a black & red people & monsters. Misinterpreted literally, this attributed to black & red races being discriminated against in Europe & US.

[JustinMartyrJr]

rey.: "skin of blackness"? These color symbolism still are in use in these ways. "Black or White Magic," "black mailed," Whitesunday (which goes back to white baptismal robes), vrs Black Sabbath. In the movie Legend, starring Tom Cruise, the gobblins talks to the "dark lord," about how their "hearts are black." Lord of the Rings, Gandoff the grey becomes Gandoff the white after a battle with 1 of the underworld demons. "White washed," is another term. I hope these examples are helpful. Thanks.

[reychavez1]

To me, your father's skin color curses are worthless when it pertains to salvation. Also, the prophecy about mormons saving the constitution to me is also of little value. So many people have been estranged from that document in this country and in the eyes of the lord and myself they never had need of it to maintain their dignity as human beings. We have our dignity not because of that piece of paper but because we are created in his image. If that document fails Our Father will not.

[reychavez1]

The fact of the matter is that if you don't obtain a copy of the original book of mormon and compare it to the newest print you might say such a thing. Infallible words have no need to be changed especially when "heaven on earth" "mormonism" had deemed them to be their guidelines for so long. It saddens my heart to know that there are people in this world who refuse to wake up to the truth. My ancestors suffered greatly. Your book justifies their suffering and that of african americans

[reychavez1]

See now Justin You would like for people to believe that your book of mormon says these things and how very convenient it is for an ever-expanding mormon religion to spin the truth in a more complimenting light. The fact of the matter is that blacks were not allowed to attain the priesthood for reasons obvious. Now you and all the other mormon scriptural whitewashers would like for people of color to believe that story. answer this, how can you practice such a ban based on race then deny it aftr

[reychavez1]

If the constitution fails Yah most high never will. If the sun was darkened and there were no light Joseph Smith and his racist prophecies would not need be our light. Yah is light our Elohim and in Jesus my freeborn Native roots will spread without your brainwash. Keep your rock in your hat and we will praise the Lord without secrecy.

[reychavez1]

Not to mention the fact that joseph smith himself belonged to one of these secret societies and derived alot of his inspiration from masonic society. Do your research and youll find that mormons practiced and recited the vow so similar to masonic ritual. That is just one of the many similarities (symbolisms) etc.. I am of native american decent. I reject your racist lamanite slanderous title. No need for us to become white The true Jesus will always be our light

[JustinMartyrJr]

rey.: "Not to mention the fact that joseph smith himself belonged to one of these secret societies and derived alot of his inspiration from masonic society." You didn't see the first part of this series. In it I mention how Joseph Smith was a mason, but also how he restored the early Christian mysteries, the obvious greater parallel to those who see the art works & know early Christian history & rituals.

See also on You Tube: Christ, As Cosmic Cruiser

[JustinMartyrJr]

rey.: "No need for us to become white." Part A: I Don't expect your skin color to change white, because I understand it's symbolic. Thus, when Book of Mormon says Lamanites will become "white," or "pure," it's not racist. It's ancient ritualistic symbolism that was used by ancient Jews & early Christians. Ancient Garments were made out of animal skins, thus in having their skins whitened, it was a symbolical type of being cleaned from spots of sins that had blackened their hearts & souls.

[reychavez1]

The first prime minister of Britain stated all these facts at a time when joseph smiths words had never reached high enough for him to hear. All these things were obvious to leaders past that the nations not only were contending with other nations but secret societies also

[TrueSaintsLDS]

AWESOME VIDEO!

FAIRLDSdotORG

for the gospel of JESUS CHRIST

[12345fraser]

great vid!!