101 East -Malaysian conversion Controversy- 07 Jun 07 -Pt 1

[Graymoths]

An individual's beliefs, especially if it does not harm anyone, should not be any business of the government or the law. Malaysia is a SECULAR state. That is a fact.

[anygoodtune]

I am not a suicide bomber and i will never be. Because Christ lives in me.

[gchamp727]

God curse all religiions. ... humm maybe he already did.

[Dzongka]

What horrid intolerance. They've essentially lost their native religion; they're well on their way to becoming an Arab nation in their own right. So odd.

[AngryRobot87]

FAIL.. i dont have a prophet named muhammad cuz i'm a christian..i believe in jesus all the way! But from what i know muslims believe jesus to be a prophet in their religion. Thats y i say they should learn more about jesus because he is the definition of peace, not muhammad. U sir are an idiot..

[choosiauping]

I don't care what the Moslem said I slam is the religion of peace, than how come once you are "in", you cannot "out". You want to get out, you face death threat.

Explain to me why?

[ngts631]

In Islam, there is no such thing as moderate Islam as reaction of such speaks of a radical. Isn't it justified what they are!

[beenn15]

religion ultimately spoils everything.

[fromjulian]

Syed Ali Tawfik Al-Attas is deceiving the audience when he says that the Qur'an does not say that apostacy is punishable. Just like the Hadiths and Sharia law the death panalty is clear:

"But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them …" Qur’an 4:89

There is no 'freedom of religion' under Islamic rule. Conversion from Islam is one of the things Malaysia, like all other Islamic countries, does not allow.

[setias16]

the second comentator did say that inquisiton was history ...yes it is but it was based on bible teachings....what happen now in christian world is against in the bible regarding the apostates

[chandruskywalker]

islam not bad...but muslim are very bad....ahmadiyya and sufi good molems....

[diamond6156]

and those dronk who takes gun and kills people every day in europe january 2010 in britain we know what happened there a man kills 12 person with no reason first stop that and then say islam is bad religion

[allahlovesmycock3]

@diamond6156 yes islam is a bad evil cult that will kill u if u leave it!

[functruck]

@allahlovesmycock3 that means islam is a true religion and cannot take it easily..

[allahlovesmycock3]

@functruck thats stupid and nonsense..how do u know what is a true religion?. whats your proof?. whats your arguement?.whats your definition?..whats your baseline?..tell me....If Islam is indeed a true religion it will not get angry or hurt....yet...evil Islam does what it knows best...it react violent to the slight criticsm...why would god create such a shit?. and appoint a pedophile child rapist,mass murderer,lunatic,liar,sex maniac,highway robber and asshole like muhammad to be a prophet?...

[functruck]

@allahlovesmycock3 then i guess u wanna say u r correct n i'm wrong ? even your user name tells who is right. in any religion or moral, slander is GREATLY WRONG.. and now you are arguing about this ???

besides, u need to deeply study about Islam because all your points is definitely NOT TRUE AT ALL..

u can't just say this and that without knowing the truth..this is not include those rude words u used..do u expect people to believe u and follow your way..i mean, look at urself dear friend.

[allahlovesmycock3]

@functruck which part am i wrong?. pls be specific...so i can counter argue..my name does not hurt or kill innocent ppl...my name mocks and ridicules pedophile Muhammad....and even your cock sucking Allah is not bothered! u dont have to follow my way...as long as u muslims don't force evil Islam on others and respect ppl's right to leave evil Islam.....can u guys do that?

[functruck]

@allahlovesmycock3 those Muslims who kill innocent people is bad people who are actually fake Muslims or just Muslim in title but they are only pretending. the real Muslims wouldnt do such things. but muslim cannot leave islam because they are in the right religion. when the religion allow people to change religion doesnt it obviously mean that the it's not the right one. if not, why did it let people go to other religion. think carefully !

[allahlovesmycock3]

@functruck nope..those muslims who murder are following true islam and hoping to fuck 72 virgins...LOL..u should know that....how do u know what is right religion?.did allah came and whisper to u?. u see god is not desperate to have religion..only evil pedophile muhammad...u see muhammad is mentally damaged asshole..its very clear..u need to praise muhammad all the time...like a dog....LOL....why is that?...all praises to muhammad...:-) like a dog..good muhamad good muhammad..sit!

[functruck]

@allahlovesmycock3 u need to really study Islam dearest friend, i mean REALLY REALLY because u know NOTHING . and stop making SLANDERS. ask for guidance because u r far from the right path. Allah gives guidance to one who only seek for it. it's not like giving thing. it will open our eyes to see the truth. and yet what r u doing, keep cursing everything about Islam without knowing anything. dont making up "tale" or hear from other people.

[allahlovesmycock3]

@functruck if i don't know anything about Islam..i would be a fool like u...Allah gives guidance to only those who seek it?...LOL..thats funny...Billions fo ppl believe in concept of god....tell me...islam kills apostates and refuse to give freedom to leave it...is that hearsay or tale?..answer me!....God who force manking to bend they ass 5 times a day and ask to praise some asshole pedophile...do u think this normal behaviour?...

[functruck]

@allahlovesmycock3 if u see it through ur hatred eyes, even the brightest light u'll see it so dim. if u feel it with ur hatred heart, all truth can be so false. Muhammad deserves to be praise because he has brought Islam which literally means SAFE or PEACE to the world. He never used violence and never force people to enter Islam but people attracted to it. even nonmuslims study al Quran because it has so much benefits. that's what i'm saying, u didnt born to know everything about islam.

[allahlovesmycock3]

@functruck on the contrary...Muhammad the pedophile was the most evil man in the world..heck he makes Adolf Hitler looks like little girl...LOL..u see Arabia never known or hear of religious war until pedophile muhammd brought upon them..he killed innocent,raped widows that he made,raped little girl, a sex maniac,highway robber and many more...evil islam is all about violence and hatred..u should know better...just pick up the quran and read it..there is no benefit in evil quran.just evil....

[functruck]

@allahlovesmycock3 please do a research ! i CAN be just like you, keep telling wrong facts and tales to win but i will NOT.

[allahlovesmycock3]

@functruck which fact is wrong?.pls be specific so i can counter argue.......

[AngryRobot87]

@allahlovesmycock3 and u my friend is a retard.. i hope ur an atheist, cuz if ur a christian ur a bad example of one. "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself" both religion should follow this simple quote, jesus is a prophet in islam, so muslims should learn more about jesus more than muhammad bcuz he never killed anyone, instead he forgives those who kill him. jesus is peace.

[allahlovesmycock3]

@AngryRobot87 your pedophile muhammad was the most evil man in the world..not only he was a child rapist..he was highway robber,thief and mass murderer....u should know that better....tell me did jesus also raped child like pedophile muhammad?..

[allahlovesmycock3]

@functruck did u hear what the asshole said..apostacy is punisheble offence..i did not say it..your fellow muslim and evil islam says it..tell me...is your imaginary cock sucking allah that insecure?..tell me..why cant your imaginary cock sucking allah deal with apostates and why would cock sucking need you muslim help to jail or murder apostates?...where is your imaginary cock sucking allah?..where?....

[functruck]

@allahlovesmycock3 that's why muslims should never leave Islam n do what the real Islam should do. There is only war for jihad in Islam(when people want to vanish Islam) and that war is the last option when there is no other way. Islam respect nonmuslims of their own religion. all the development this world achieve was firstly discovered by muslims who study al Quran. u can find so many names if u search it. even the holy al Quran stated about the mechanism of fetus before european does.

[AngryRobot87]

@functruck omg..u r terribly misinformed..u should do more unbiased research. u only see what u want to believe because ur trying to defend ur religion.. apostasy punishable by death = not religion of peace. U cant defend against that. all development firstly discovered by muslims?? r u seriously that blind? some developments..yes i can agree, but only a small part. Try looking at ur religion with an open mind and u will see..

[diamond6156]

ahahahahah men every body know islam is the only true religion western country the media every where in the world are agains us but what we see every day is people leaving there religions and turning to islam PROUD TO BE MUSLIM they said muslim didnt respect the women but most new muslim are women thanks for god before abusing islam first get the right solution to stop pop sex scandle and those young kids selling drugs in south and north america

[proudfemale]

@diamond6156 you really must be STUPID with a childish claim that 'everybody' known islam only true religion..what makes islam any truer than the other 4,999!

of course 3 out of 4 converts leave if they can, and intellect is NOT one of commonalities of converts...but most definitely is of your apostates

correct...islam REGARDS FEMALES WITH CONTEMPT

muslims sell drugs too...they even rip the bottoms of small boys as a 'way of life' & known for DISHONESTY/CRIME

[allahlovesmycock3]

@diamond6156 how do u know Islam is one true religion?.what is your basis?.from where do u refer?.what is your baseline?..

[DavidRajKL]

yeah yeah u religion is the true religion.....its their choice whether they wanna be Muslim or not...just let them GOD idiots...

[naturewar]

Islam is a very good tool that malaysia politician like to use. Malaysia politician will keep using islam to control malay, and also control their pocket can always full of money.

[XXindifferentlyXX]

well i think it aint the way it seems

[gobenselampit]

i would say, muslim malaysia (generally melayu) are still far back ward. most of them are not educated enough and just says/follows what others at their level are doing/saying......PEACE! you don't have to be religious to be success/good person.

[RedPlumJam]

gobenselampit

being sucess/good person is not the reason we choose islam. its about other thing.

[gobenselampit]

So, what is that "other thing"? If one day that all religions are bans, I think we will all live in peace. As without Islam (or other religions),for sure there will be less fights/wars/killing each others happen on this earth of everyones.

[RedPlumJam]

that other thing is "god existent". quran proove that god exist. god say the people dont dont pray him, we will go to hell.

[allahlovesmycock3]

@RedPlumJam quran proved muhammad is loony cock sucker...god does not need religion....only evil satan demands 5 times ass bending daily and yelling....allah sucks my cock akbhar.....

[allahlovesmycock3]

@RedPlumJam lol..the only thing quran proved is its evil...and nothing else....

[BukanMelayu]

If you said that Malaysia is not a Muslim country, so why do you hate Islam. Be precise. Hate the Malays and hate Islam are completely different.

I am a Muslim but I despise the Malays!

[injeelchrist]

in heven have sex.. 7 wives always virgin.. in islam

[BukanMelayu]

Care to clarify where in the Quran is this stated?

[pisang179]

islam is confusion......b4 he said death is the punishment for leaving Islam now he said is depand of the country islam law. So are he saying that's Islam law are not the same to any Islam? Perhaps we sud have the right to choose what we want to belive. Religon sud not be put on law but into the individual faith.

[BukanMelayu]

Read the Quran. It describes itself very explicitly. And the laws are clear.

[tuitionlah]

faith comes from yrself bro ,think b 4 u talk

[chewychews]

Sometimes I feel myself getting scared because malaysia is getting more and more to be like a middle east country. Recently they banned pop concerts because it corrupts the young, caned a woman for drinking,riots because they didn't want a temple to be built on "their muslim majority state as it is insult to islam",and changed civil law to syria law in some states.they have a "muslim-first" policy.I believe if this goes on,we in non-muslim countries can wave bye bye to peace.

[comot22]

@chewychews no la.....u just in west what happen to their child nowsday because of we follow the secular politicion like non muslim can the avoid social crime....it become wrost.....u can see...nowdays american people bring gun to their school and u no need to afaid...if u an imagrant plz go back to ur country china...and what happen...in malaysia the malay pepole still can tolerate with all u imagrant came here....then dont be to fussy.....it nothing in mekah also every religon in good codtion

[allahlovesmycock3]

@comot22 malaysians are malaysians....not immigrants anymore..what makes malaysia great its vibrant culture..the real original malaysians are the aborigines not u indonesians!..u should know that better...and futher more u malay muslims were once hindus and had great civilisation....remember if malaysia are only full of malays...the only thing u guys will be exporting is maids and whores!

[itubeToodles]

The religion of peace!

unfuckingbelieveble!

[Romy108]

Incredible!

[TheMuslim7]

If you want to convert your religon from Muslim, you better convert your country as well...

Malaysia is muslim country...

dont come here and disturb muslim...

[BukanMelayu]

I didn't know that Malays are Muslims! This is new to me. I always though that the Malays observe the faith of MASUK MELAYU. Care to explain???

[megatsyazlee]

hahaha. Funny as hell. Well that do explain the mentality. But i think the real problem here is some muslim themselves dont understand the islamic law. It is all about explaining and education. Instead of calling people kafirs and saying ni negara islam so u jangan kacau. muslim should be more explanatory about islamic law.. just my 2 cents

[BukanMelayu]

The real problem is that Malays REFUSED to learn Arabic. Allah SWT has chosen to reveal His Divine Words only through Hebrew (Taurat, Zaboor & Injeel) and Arabic (through Quran).

The truth is the Malays are downright LAZY.

[megatsyazlee]

That is stereotypical thinking, which is a basis of dogmatic and racist believes. it is unfair to judge people as group, the truth is there is a lot of malays who know arabic, me being one of em. You should not deem to debase yourself spouting ignorant comments which are untrue and steep on racial prejudgment. If you do so you are no better then those you condemn.

[BukanMelayu]

The bangsa that created RACIST words such as Bumiputra, Bukan Bumiputra and Ketuanan Melayu is UNFIT to call other racists. So, what if you can speak Arabic. I have found myself being 'interpreter' to your 'trainee ulamaks' who are incapable of conducting a conversation in Arabic!!

[megatsyazlee]

Again your are saying the same thing, You are judging a whole group based on the experience from a few, it is unfair and biased even hateful, adolf hitler like to do that, an many other fascist and nazi's. perhaps your thinking are much closer then you think?

[BukanMelayu]

'Again your are saying the same thing,'

Then, let me say the same thing again MORE EXPLICITLY: I despise the Malays (of Malaysia) to the CORE.

[BukanMelayu]

All Non-Malay Muslims in Malaysia are having problems with the Malays. You didn't know that????

[megatsyazlee]

are u even listening to yourself, u sound like someone who is so dogmatic, unreasonable and racist that they cant even see themselves, maybe u should called yourself a nazi, people like your make a bad name for other muslims

[satail]

@TheMuslim7 so there is compulsion in islam after all ;)

[mlovecraftr]

The worst it can happen to a country is her fusion with a religion because it produces discrimination and isolation to people of differents minority faiths

even tukey which is 99.99% muslim according to the government and 98-97% muslim according to the opposition is secular state

[IntaMalsi]

Yes Islam is not a religion, its a system. A system to take over the world, with religion being one small part of it.

[tukaunama]

buat muka sedih konon

[hadhinahjamil]

stuju2...!!!

[1mimilala]

there is not need for rudeness, threats and accusations. ultimately, don't you think God would rather have you believe in Him because you truly, deeply and sincerely believe in your heart in Him and not because you were born into the religion?

[iyokoni]

FREEDOM OF RELIGION FOR MALAYSIA! religious pas and umno can kill themself

[lach119435]

You can't separate Islam from Malaysia, but you can separate YOURSELF from Malaysia.

[hkyau21]

yes you can't seperate Islam from Malaysia...but you can embrace others If you truly love Malaysia..telling others Malaysian to separate THEMSELF from Malaysia will not do anything good for the country...

[rotijalal]

Anyone knows, what happen the outcome of the lawsuit? I felt pity about the girl. She cannot be with the husband. There is no freedom of workship.

[lach119435]

Just let her be with her husband, it's between her and God. The best thing the government can do is to persuade her 3 times to change her religion back is islam. if she chooses to stay as a hindu then let her be. islam do not need a disciple like her (we know she's not a good muslim for marrying a hindu). we should focus on quality not quantity..

[Degoniagebsia]

Yeah..why forcing people to embrace islam if they don't want to? is this one of islam's teachings?

[hkyau21]

oh yeah....quality...(she's not a good muslim for marrying a hindu) only if u marry muslim then you consider good muslim...you are an excellent muslim but you don't know love...sad..

[sandreniner]

al-Jazeera was meant to balanced the biased CNN and other western medias coverage on the Muslim communities. But today, al-Jazeera is keen to back stab us. some said that the station had already been bought by the Jews. That is why we could see that there are lots of al-Jazeera's anchor person who were non Muslims. al-Jazeera should attack on issues relating on the western countries and the Jews. Not on Muslims! Otherwise al-Jazeera wouldn't be relevant to us!

[sultan3878]

very true.

[izatkhairizat]

no.. al jazeera is not a back stabber. as a muslim, we shouldnt be biased. we should seek truth. muslims should observe, learn, think and see beyond the beyond as stated in the first page of quran.

[djaysern]

I agree with you Izatkhairizat. We always look at the Religion fundamental. what about the Humanright fundamental. What about your right!

Observer, Learn , Think and Be Fair!

[nel122284]

What do you expect? All medias are the same, they don't dig news to find the truth, they do it to make money. whatever they find hot and fiesty that will be on the frontpage.

[omnivore2020]

No further debate on this religion please.. not worth the debate fighting this thing that only going to make Malaysian fighting each other.. let stick to hot issue.. BERSIH issue.

[whykin]

"when you become a Muslim, you are entering into a contract... now you're breaking the contract, which is punishable"

Does that sound like a car salesman trying to get you into a lease and when you're in, you can't get out unless you pay a penalty.

Or does it sound like some kind of gang policy where the only way to leave the gang is to have your finger cut off?

Infuckingcredible!!

[namemexy]

@whkin. Damn right. It is incredible how this "scholar" is winding, confronted by a fundamental simple question: Does an individual has the freedom of conscience or not? The answer: not in islam( that is to say islam is a (totalitarian)regime not a personal devotion.

[muhammadsucksmycock1]

@whykin yeah man. islam is a car that u buy from a ganster!..LOL

[sedomist]

you know wat.easy lets just have a racial fight last 1 standing get the country

[sedomist]

look its all the religious fanatics thats making a fuss,n i totally agree and was also hoping to say with panzeyman

[oratorspeaker]

"religion of peace" showing its true colour

[SiswaMalaya]

Kita sebagai umat Islam mesti patuhi ajaran Quran sebak-baiknya dan jangan nak memaksa sesiapa rakyat malaysia masuk Islam. Kita salah dan patut meminta maaf pada Majendra and Nina.

[cahayailmu]

dont get us Malay have hatred on other religion in Msia.

[die101]

well had to give credit to prof sayed, precise, straight to the point answers, very good justification as compared to those 2

[tailangong]

buddhism is the best....yeah~~!

[panzeyman]

If syariah law is looked on every stage of courts, then syariah court is supreme, making the constitution a joke.

If constitution is still supreme, then syariah court ought to have no say in matters that the constitution has already provided, including apostacy since the constitution already provided Freedom of Religion (article 11).

So my question is:is syariah law upgraded and the constitution is therefore outdated, or is the constitution still supreme making the syariah law overestimated?

[megatsyazlee]

constitution does say there is freedom of religion with a clause, saying that one must not propogate other religion to the muslims, therefore you could say that it is within the constitution to allow syariah law, i advised you to read through the constitution more fully

[allahlovesmycock3]

@megatsyazlee why is that?..whats wrong muslims leaving islam?.one cant propagate other religion to muslims but muslims can propagate islam to others?..u made a law like that?...don't u find it childish and unfair?....u your pedophile muhammad is nothing more than an evil lunatic rapist terrorist...but u know that....

[megatsyazlee]

@allahlovesmycock3 do u want a rational and debate or just a chance to spout some more profanities, i mean its not hard to curse. And even your pseudo-name is hateful and reflect your state of mind.. If all you want to do is curse and be insulting then any arguments or debate would be useless right??

[allahlovesmycock3]

@megatsyazlee my name is between me and imaginary cock sucking allah..u don't have to worry about it.......seriously....

[A09109444666]

it's there traditions and cultures not the ISLAM!!! ISLAM IS ALLOWING PEOPLE TO BELIEVE WHATEVER THEY LIKE TO BELIEVE!!! NO COMPULSARY!!!

[panzeyman]

Here's a question:

If i'm a muslim turned ANYTHING... why do i have to still answer the court of a religion i no longer believe? y are u forcing me to STILL follow a religious law i no longer believe in? u're just making a mockery of ur own religion by forcing a now heathen to believe in it.

By the way, Mr Lee makes a terrible representative for Christians and Constitutional Law. Thanks to his 2 cents worth of thought.. the conversation is totally OUT!!!

[A09109444666]

IT IS SIMPLE!!! IN THE TRUE TEACHINGS OF ISLAM REMEMBER "THERE IS NO COMPULSARY!!! BUT NOTED THAT MALAYSIAN TRADITIONS AND CULTUREs ARE THE SAME WITH OUR FILIPINO!!! our culture is not allowing any other tribes of people to marry our duouhgters!!! not islam prohibited!!!

[megatsyazlee]

well it is like the law of citizenship, you are not forced follow the law of the land where you are a citizen, but you cannot just suddenly claim that you no longer believe in the law of the country and break that law, and claim i should be tried by the laws of the england because i no longer believe in the law of the Malaysia.

[allahlovesmycock3]

@megatsyazlee sounds like islam is equal to gangs....gangs kill if u leave it.....islam will kill if u leave it.....see its the same....:-)....care to debate that?

[joxerandy]

May God Bless Malaysian Christian ...Amen

[lbjk1129]

Ppl using religion 4 their own gain in politics.They r scared dat their special priviledges wil be taken away frm them if the gov is ruled by non malays.7% bumi discount anyone?

[angelicverses]

Some" 180°-twisted" texts in the Bible;

In Christianity, Jesus said "Love your Enemy, pray for those who hate you".

(The actual word was, "Hate your enemies, and kill those who hated you")

In Judaism teaching (in the 10 commandments) "Thou shall not kill".

(The actual word was "Thou shall kill thou enemies"..

The Bible says, God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten Son to die for YOU.

(The actual word was, "Allah wants you to send YOUR son to DIE FOR HIM!"

[joe700700]

You just quoted verses from the quran.

[pajaroborracho]

freedom of speech is the basis of democracy. if religious beliefs superseed freedom of religion then there is no democracy. Just dictatorship

[joxerandy]

Where the part 2 ???

[angelicverses]

Jesus teachings:

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." (NIV, John 13:34-35)

The religion of peace:

Sura (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

[megatsyazlee]

im sorry but you misunderstand the verse.. the arabic word are more translated to alliance, not friends, and the true interpretations are do not take the jews and the christians for allies (above and beyond other muslims nations)

It is an ayah concerning the governance of state, as a Jewish state and a christian state would be more open to work with each other to the detriment of a Muslim nations and this could be prove historically on numerous occasions

[allahlovesmycock3]

@megatsyazlee its still unacceptable....if allah is true God then allah would not even mentioned jews christians or muslim...becoz...all r children of god..this shows that muhammad the pedophile hatred towards jews and christians..Quran is not from god but from muhammad the pedophile fat ass.......but u know that......

[whackoes2]

why muslim converted to christian? bcoz they have find the truth...as a historian..in my judgement is that is Islam is not existed then the world will be more peaceful then today..less war..no terrorist..no crusader..no need for stupid jihad ideology..

[asperin]

apostasy is not punishable by humans,STOP trying to be so extreme about islam,so extreme to a point that it discontinues being islam.

[lbjk1129]

I think u r in denial...the teachings in islam does say that humans (the muslims that is) acts as khalaa'if (rulers and judges)on earth...that includes judging apostasies...y on earth there would be jihad if not to eradicate those who opposes the muslims?

[asperin]

apostates is what God deals with, a person who left his religion should not be put to death or persecuted, God says nothing about it.

jihad means struggle, and it can also be non violent struggle.

[omnivore2020]

asperin.. Islam is not a logic teaching as what you have sound to interpret. I will not comment more but changing religion if you are Muslim is punishable. but bear in mind. there are methods/procedures to do this. means, she has to be taught and be reminded again about Islam. ..

[asperin]

that's in the hadith follower area.

not the muslims upholding quran alone.

islam is a system from God, the creator of all things.

what other people say what islam should be it's nothing but outside of what God wants.

[omnivore2020]

but this issue, we are not qualified to comment too deep as we are not religious scholar. we know too little about Islam as we might have thought we knew. Ust. Shafiee, Muslim, Boukhary spend their life to study this thing

[asperin]

teach yourself from the quran, that is in an easy arabic and easy to understand, clear, like God himself says in the quran.

schoolars are men like you, don't think you are less because some elite doesn't name you schoolar of their belief.

peace

[rakmanenuff]

"punishable" by whom? GOD, or a bunch of power-hungry, judgemental, proud, vindictive, inflexible, arrogant control freaks?

if it's true that MAN's right to punish apostates is based on ijma from the SECOND kaliphs, then that should in theory not be binding.