History Channel: Starship Boneyard

[MrCsviper]

A real beauty, got to see one in a hanger next to mine. Shes stripped but none the less a beautiful piece of engineering.

[JustaRegularPatriot]

Typical government ineptitude. It says in the video it's 5x stronger than aluminum! Someone please enlighten me on the FAA's thought process!

Nevertheless, the most beautiful, elegant and harmonious airframe ever built IMO.

One used to fly out of Bermuda Dunes airport and right over my real estate office in Sky Valley, though it's been a year or so since I've seen it. I'd run outside whenever I heard its' distinctive exhaust note to pay homage.

[helljumpr5150]

I wonder if the maintenance manuals for it still exist.

[paralleler]

@helljumpr5150 I'm not sure about maintenance manuals but there is a book entitled "The Starship Diaries" you might want to check out. I can't put a HTML link in this response but I have it above in the video description under "Show more" or you can Google it.

[R5H4D0W]

I have never in my life actually seen one in real life, but I have witnessed several times another similar aircraft, an P180 Avanti by Piaggio Aero... Fell in love with that at first sight, but it will take several years before I can get remotely close to owning one. There's definitely something about pusher props that raises eyebrows

[azimuth361]

Great plane. Pity it came out before its time.

[natrllifter]

There is one that flys out of Kansas City Municipal Airport. You cannot mistake it very different engine sound. Have seen it several times. Their is a Scherer Truck accessory company here and maybe this is his plane?

[mcjon77]

That is the most badass civilian airplane ever produced.

[rkdkellycreek]

did he design the "quickie"? I'm not sure I spelled that right ,it was the third aircraft I was ever "up" in

[fletsepopje]

My hat's off to you Mr. Scherer, for keeping one of the most beautiful aircraft ever built flying.

[12342321]

I had this thing fly over my head last year, does have a distinctive sound to the engines..

[granskare]

I saw one at a small airport at Davenport, Iowa.

[granskare]

I saw one at a small airport at Davenport, Iowa.

[skydive911]

lol i thought it'd be some new aircraft... it still looks very 21st century to me!

[Stickman698]

Brilliant plane-truely way ahead of it's time. It's such a shame that the FAA refused to approve it. Let's hope that indeed, someone, sometime, will resurrect this plane.

[MrDiredemon]

awesomw aircraft , I only wish more ppl were as brave with their design and concepts

[OldFalcon2]

It was a lousy design. It's, doom came when the first executive said he would not be seen ariving in it. It was very innefficient. You don't put all the fuel and load forward of the CG. They would tend to fall over backward unloaded if the gear was in the right place when loaded

[rpscherer]

@OldFalcon2 How many hours do you have in a Starship? As Burt says "It's the best airplane the company ever made"; and it is.

[whizbang47]

What blather! It didn't go! It cost jet money, too.

[swimmerB0B]

i didn't think they were so rare. i see one fly over our shop in el cajon nearly everyday (not a piaggio- they are smaller and sound way different) and i believe there are two different numbers- they both approach montgomery (we are below approaches to gillespie, montgomery, lindbergh, and north island) on a fairly regular basis.

[DmitryIvanikovitch]

From what this made it sound like, the FAA about killed this airplane. Damn shame, wonder if there was more to it though

[mister60066]

I really love this airplane... It's grace, smoothness, beauty... I just love it... But man, this guy has a LOT of cash

[eltfell]

I'm wondering one thing: They say, that the Starship was stable. As I know, the horizontal stabilizers of conventional planes create a downforce to keep them stable. Planes with canard are said to be unstable. How do they get the Starship stable?

[rpscherer]

@eltfell The Starship's forward wing creats lift. This has the same stabilizing effect as a tail that creates downforce. The Starship is very stable in flight and the main wing is highly stall resistant.

[KRWoodworks]

@eltfell Sorry but you are wrong in all your assumptions. Do the research you'll find the these aircraft are extremely stable. For instance you can't stall this design or any of the canard home built aircraft.

[AVMamfortas]

Not quite the saddest story; the TSR2 was destroyed too. The most advanced aircraft of its kind in the world at the time, destroyed to 'allow' the F111, an inferior plane,  to get a market.

[WALTERBROADDUS]

This just made my, "What if i ever won the powerball list?" If i had that kind of cash, i'd like one. Then again i'd like a warbird as well. The loss of this plane is just a shame. It's like the Porsche 959 of planes.

[hainesy86]

I must say, what a great video and what a great airplane, timing just may not have been good for this airplane but its still such a fantastic design. thank you for posting this

[wn6904k]

WOW.......!!!!!! talk about an airplanw so way ahead of it's time. The name sure does fit.

[emtpilot132]

I saw one today at RVS as I was taxiing back to the ramp. What a beautiful airplane.

[jawnbouynvegas]

I think that the remaining space shuttles should be stripped down to make two nearly new shuttles to act as space life rafts. To date no rescue ships or stations exist for any emergency that may occur in space. The could be geosynchronously parked opposite sides of the planet. And no doubt would eventually save lives. Once reconditioned they would require little maintenance. We could even make a hospital out of one. No need to just waste them.

[pricelessppp]

this thing needs jet engines

[HHammerHeadD]

think Europes' Typhoon series Jets...

[eelb53]

The original design of the Starship, had it performing at jet cruise speeds, with ample range. Beech had to keep adding weight to meet FAA requirements. The result was an airplane that couldn't carry much with full fuel, and the cruise was around 300 kts. At the end of the day, you had a very expensive and exotic looking airplane, that performed like a King Air.

[rpscherer]

@eelb53 With full fuel, the Starship has an additional 900 lbs of useful load. Cruise speeds are between 310 and 325 kts in the low to mid 30's. She has better performance than a King Air B-200 with the sound and vibration levels of a jet. To compare a Starship to a King air is like comparing a Mercedes Benz to a Ford van.

[eelb53]

@rpscherer Read something other than the 1980's Beech publicity brochures. The aircraft was a failure. The reason it was a failure, is because it cost too much, didn't go fast enough, couldn't carry anything, and couldn't go very far. The sales figures speak for themselves. And yes, in practical application, it was inferior to a King Air, and entry level Citations too. It's was a costly piece of junk, and the Premier hasn't been much better.

[rpscherer]

@eelb53 It’s always a good idea to do your homework before posting.

Here are the Starship’s specs compared with the King Air 200:

Max speed: 338 knots vs. 290 knots

Max altitude: 41,000 ft vs. 35,000 ft

Cabin Width: 67 inches vs. 54 inches

Cabin Height: 58.2 inches vs. 57 inches

Useful load: 4,525 lbs vs. 3,950 lbs

Range: 1580 vs. 1974 nautical miles

So you are quite correct, the King Air has longer range.

[eelb53]

@rpscherer I don't need to do homework. I'm a retired corporate pilot who was around when the Starship was developed and marketed. I never flew one, but know some pilots who have. The airplane was a failure. Other than the cabin dimensions, all of the performance specs were never met in real world operation. The airplane would do about 280kts, and go about 1200 miles. As I explained previously, the FAA required that the airframe be beefed up considerably during certification. (cont)

[rpscherer]

@eelb53 You never flew one; so you're excused for being completely clueless. The performance specs I stated are for the actual production Starship, right out of the Pilot's Operating Handbook.. The airplane has a cruise speed of over 330 knots, not 280 as you state. As a current Starship owner/pilot with over 2500 hours in the type, I can verify these specs. And just so you know, every pilot who has ever flown the Starship (and I know a lot of them) loves the airplane.

[eelb53]

@rpscherer Well, I have 15,000 hours in everything from Cherokees to DC-9's, so I wouldn't say I'm completely clueless. I just know when I managed a corporate flight department when the Starship came out, it was difficult to justify the cost when compared to other aircraft of similar performance. What few pilots I've run into through the years, who have actually flown the Starship, all conclusively stated it failed to meet to meet book performance figures.

[rpscherer]

@eelb53 You can dismiss the false rumors you have heard. The Starship meets or exceeds her published book performance figures. I fly over 330 kts all the time and have flown many times at FL 410. I also get book range numbers every time. The Starship is the best airplane Beechcraft ever built; quiet and vibration free as a jet and solid as a Mercedes Benz.

[eelb53]

@rpscherer  After weight was added to the structure, the performance was greatly inhibited. And I never mentioned the 200 series King Air, I said King Air. Another poster used the 200 to justify his argument. Anyone with a reasonable amount of aviation literacy, would know that the King Air 300 was the contemporary of the Starship. Anyone who flew both these airplanes when they were new will tell you the real world performance figures were very similar. (cont)

[eelb53]

@rpscherer The legacy of the Starship is that it appeals to airplane groupies, who have no idea about the economics of owning and operating a corporate aircraft. Just because an airplane looks exotic and cool, doesn't make it practical. All said and done, it was a turboprop, with high acquisition and operational costs. It didn't break any new ground in performance. There's a lot of airplanes that could do the same thing for a lot less money.

[eelb53]

@rpscherer Better comparison is a Ford Probe to a Ford F-150. Similar timelines, similar fates.

Gulfstream is the Mercedes-Benz.

[Plur307]

A few weeks ago a starship flew overhead and I was like "OMG look a beechcraft starship!!!". My girlfriend thought I was the biggest nerd ever...

[anathamon]

great video, i find it funny he uses the word "certificated" instead of, "certified".

[eelb53]

@anathamon Aviation term. The FAA issues "certificates" to airplanes and pilots, that makes them legal to fly. They don't "certify" them. Therefore, the proper term is "certificated".

[anathamon]

@eelb53 I understand, it was more a comment on how the aviation industry likes to use words that aren't in common usage, or get very pedantic about the definitions of words. For example here in Canada they (TC)are very particular about the use of the word practicable vs practical.

[raptors222222]

Someone should restart production.

[mistereiyouhi]

OK. I take that job.

SS2 would be jet driven all composite more excellently designed.

1st, cranked arrow wing is not so much suited for transonic plane. 2nd, position of engine should be little high and little forward considering for balance. Finally, I would make much F1 like exterior.

[harris3693]

@mistereiyouhi indeed, also make the front canards more of the likes of the SU-30 MKI's!!

[DragonGirl1136]

Am I the only one who listened to this the whole way through because it's Canderous Ordo's voice actor?

[zf4hp24]

The sad joke is Boeing is having a devil of a time building their first composite airframe too. Two decades later the 787/Dreamliner is also late and over budget.

[S9297AircraftReviews]

where did you get the fact that there is 4 left flying today?

[paralleler]

@S9297AircraftReviews One of the Starship owners, Robert Scherer, has a very good web site on the aircraft. His site, along with a search of FAA aircraft registration of Beech 2000, shows five Starships active. There is a link to Mr. Scherer's web site above in the video information above.

[davetileguy]

cool!!

[Sting3733]

A Starship 2 would be good competition for the Piaggio Avanti.

[LeBartman]

This design lives on in the form of the Piaggio Avanti. This and the Starship share a lot in common and are both beautiful aircraft

[kallsop]

Some time between August 2005 and June 2007 all of the Starships at the Pinal Airport dissappeared I presume they were destroyed as stated.

[heliarche]

I used to live in Almedia outside of Bloomsburg PA.I saw one of these that operated out of the Bloomsburg Airport flying overhead all the time.I believe it was in 1985 though.It was very close to when "Back to the Future" came out.Also I saw it maneuvering with what looked like a biplane with widely staggered wings.Perhaps it was a prototype of this machine.I was about 11-12 at the time, but I won't ever forget it.

[superkikim]

I've seen this design for the 1st time about 25 years ago... I also felt in love with it. I ever wondered why we never saw more of these planes. Now I know :-(

tx for sharing

[Crowflug]

It's sickening to see such a unique aircraft series such as the Starship having been "exterminated" perse. Why Beechcraft?????

[ATLRCFlyer]

Please Robert! Keep at least your beautiful Starship flying...

[kpdsza]

Rutan and Johnson are both giants in aviation. Keep in mind tho, Kelly Johnson had the resources of Lockheed (i.e. DoD, and CIA) at his disposal.

But, imagine what kind of world we would have if there could have been a company called Johnson-Rutan Aviation. We would all be flying to work every day. Supersonic and invisible!

[FrEsHtOdEaTh1990]

Wow that plane is Beautiful

[eimb1999]

Odd... Burt Rutan is on record as being dismayed that GM recalled and destroyed his EV-1 which was leased and he said he enjoyed. How interesting that his Starship design suffered the identical fate. It's nothing to do with conspiracies, as most EV-1 activists theorise, it's just business and bad luck/timing at work.

[KENZ51]

I saw the Prototype fly at an Airshow in Addison Tx. back in the mid 80's, Since then I have Loved the Starship! and most Canards! As an Aircraft Maint. Tech., I would Love to be involved in restoring or designing a new Starship. That would be a dream come true!

[cff121]

I finally got a chance to see a Beech Starship up close last fall when one was being annualled at Pogue Airport (KOWP) in Sand Springs, OK. There are two of the aircraft based in nearby Tulsa at Riverside airport (KRVS). It was truly advanced for its day but slow, heavy, expensive compared to other twins turboprops, and it's novel design, composite materials, and glass cockpit made a lot of buyers apprehensive. You probably could resume production of the aircraft today with great success.

[billbitt96]

Those FAA guys all retired a long time ago. We should just bribe them to shut up like all the other countries do their government. What good was all their delays? Reality is that plane flew to chase the space ship, super flying aerodynamics. So it lands abruptly. Grandpop said any landing you walk away from is a good landing, Army Air Corps moto and we won that war didn't we? They were right. Hey how it flies is 99% of the time not the landing problems so what is important most?

[fdoca]

Hello: Can i buy one of this plane from bone yard?? Does any one know there is any restriction to buy this plane?? Thks

[MrFlench]

Sad

[WestermAviation]

Excellent Story and Excellent Video.

[TamakoAkai]

Too bad I don't have the money to save some also. What a bloddy shame.

My hats off to you for saving such wonderful aircratf....

Thank you for your love of Aviation and the Starship

[Nicolasfcl]

Burt Rutan is brilliant !

[Godsinwar]

UAUUUUUU!!!!!

[coloniaIVU]

Goddamn give me one of them, me and the rest of my aviation mechanic buddies and aerospace engineers will gladly restore, upkeep, and fly the damn thing. We'll make a Starship flying club lol. Once again the ineptitude of the FAA killed off any chance for this plane succeeding before it could even get going. The FAA, on par with NASA for its knee jerk reaction type thinking and non innovativeness. One man (Rutan) and his team did what it takes millions for the gov to do.

[FLIGHTSIMEXTREME]

Whats the name of the guy who designed it?

[JohanGiliomee]

Simply one of the most elegant and beautiful designs EVER! There will always be a special place for this legendary plane in my heart!

[DanielMadrigalC]

this is truly a beautiful aircraft

I am a r/c scratch builder and this one is definitely going to my list

[applesweeter]

Dear All,

I have some questions about psychology:

(1) Why do we love flying?

(2) Why do we enjoy to design and to build new aeroplanes?

(3) why do we think that aerospace is a symbol of full-potential of human being?

THANK YOUR IN ADVANCE for your creative ideas and brainstrom!!! :)

[pelagic6]

I don't think a Gulfstream G-350 is an 'entry level' jet. It costs about 30-35 million. Lol. I think they should have shown a citation V or similar aircraft. This is a unique aircraft.

[journeyer58]

The Starship is one of the most advanced airplanes of any time. I would love to fly one and ride in one. Now with most of the Starships' being in the boneyard, I will never get the chance. Flying one in Simulator, is one of the easiest and most stable planes to fly.

[supressorgrid]

Raytheon is in buisiness folks. It would make better sense to their bean counters to sell the planes to museums than spend money destroying them..Make them a deal. Show up with a drop deck trailer and agree they will never fly. Hell, it would save money to give them away.

[pacalamike]

So sad. Of course there is still the Piaggio Avanti, only it's price tag is about 4 times higher.

[EnsiferumFan91]

@pacalamike but they're not as beautiful as starships. i saw a starship fly the other day and i said to my self, i may never see such a beautiful aircraft like this fly again

[tannerair]

What a disgrace to remove such a beautiful aircraft. I once met and talked to Burt at Oshkosh and have followed his work for years. What a genius! We need to preserve such aircraft, not destroy them.

[FrEsHtOdEaTh1990]

@tannerair i agree

[ShortCircuitVideo2]

If one references Robert Scherer's website (NC-51), aside from a high initial $, the mfg made the decision to offer a free maintance program through an independent service agency, resulting in often questionable service costs. Government intervention as a cause of it's demise as suggested here previously was not a factor.

[forgivenmanso]

Bring back the starship I hate u guys

[GalwayChick]

is it a bird no... is it a plane nah its a starship :P

[floydturbo2]

What does this guy do for a living to be able to afford things like this?  WOW..

[harris3693]

@floydturbo2 Probably a industrial sized Harem,lol!!!

[Whoisreading]

@floydturbo2 About 2:49 is said "... passengers tell me all the time.." so I don't think he is "the" or "a" pilot but maybe the owner of a company that flies people for business or pleasure? Just especulating.

[rpscherer]

@Whoisreading I am the pilot. ~Robert

[wildwindsca]

thousands of man hours designing ,planing laying the parts up, possibly autoclaving the parts then ,.............using nonrenewable fossil fuels to burn it all up!

its bullshit!!

[NSResponder]

I'd like to see a study on just how much damage the FAA did to the starship. I suspect that this is one more example of government destroying innovation.

-jcr

[pa28r200t54]

Wow, I wish I had money.

[rock3tcat]

That's THE most beautiful plane I have ever seen!!! A classic Burt Rutan design. I'm just curious, how much does a bone yard Starship cost?

[zf4hp24]

Kudos to Bob Scherer for his work in keeping the remainder of the fleet airworthy. He's an amazing and classy guy, just like the Starship.

[rjc071]

Starship II could be started with these decomissioned ships.  Question is, why won't R/BC consider selling these ships? Ah, the question.

[zuludelta100]

This is very sad. this is an amazing plane, are people gone mad, give me one I'll fly it LOL

[crystalidz]

why destory them? better to sell it to museums for cheap.

[paralleler]

Sad but true. At least one Starship made it to the Hughes HK-1 Museum (a.k.a., "The Spruce Goose") near Portland, Oregon. It really would have been nice to have more of them donated.

Search YouTube for "Starship Times Two" to see my video of two of them flying.

On a similar note, apparently used Space Shuttles will go out to the highest bidders when they are retired. I understand there are less than 10 external fuel tanks left and when the last one is gone, there can be no more flights.

[sgtpepper1138]

@paralleler Yeah, they have one at the Evergreen Air Museum (home of the Spruce Goose) in McMinnville, OR. I recommend that museum to any fan of aircraft/space flight.

[vigo894]

@paralleler= This is stupid. It's like we're taking ten steps back in air and space technology. We need reusable spaceships. Not disposable ones. It's a waste of materials.

The Starship is beautiful. Like the space shuttle we're going ten steps back.

[viper8red]

@crystalidz Tell me about it. Grind it up and burn it? Really? That's the most creative solution they can think of? Poison the planet? Great. Why not just sell the parts 'as is' to the general public. Let someone make coffee tables out of them. It would be better than burning them.

[Leardobbs]

Just saw one turning final Into ADS last night.

[Saguaro24]

These Starships are located at Pinal Airpark and Marana Northwest Regional just west of Tucson off of Inerstate 10. I have 2 arial videos on YouTube of Pinal Airpark. The Starships at Pinal are at the Northeast corner of the property.

[sideslide23]

the next starship should be jet powerd plane.

[sideslide23]

Why are the Star Ship would be destroyed thats the best turbo prop out there, and I saw one flew over at Scottsdale Airport.

[bunky060171]

hop on Google earth, look up Pinal Airpark. they are lined up mid field (at least when the sat image was recorded) .  truly sad ending. thanks for the video!

[diakrite]

Oh, and it had become a gas-guzzler THANKS to the re-enforcements. It killed the basis of using carbon-fibre:Weight reduction.

Compared to the Starship, the piaggio looks like a chubby sausage. Sorry for those Avanti-lovers.

[diakrite]

Oh, how beautiful. How sad it ended up like this.

A sad illustration of the stupidity and anti-innovation the FAA in general shows....

The Starship was so far ahead ,that the FAA couldn't make head or tail of it. They had no testing facilities for carbon planes, simple as that. Their demands made the Starship overly heavy and bloated.

Sadly they killed innovation for a

couple of years until carbon-fibre became mainstream in military aircraft. Sadly, too late for the Starship.

[Oread54]

I am passionate about the starship and very glad he is trying to preserve it. When it first came out, I went to Beech in Wichita and they gave me some posters of it. It will always be my favorite plane.

[captwildbilly]

The problem with the Starship was that it wasn't very fast, burned lots of fuel and had poor range. The Piaggio Avanti which was designed at almost the same time goes faster and farther on less fuel, and looks at least as futuristic. Beechcraft had already spent the money on getting the Starship certified and setting up production, but they stopped producing it because there was no market niche that it filled. The Piaggio avanti is still in production because it is a better airplane.

[Cuan95]

i just dont understand this, why destroy the air craft, cant they sell some of them and keep the rest for spare parts

[460mudder]

I grew up 7 miles north of Beechcraft in Wichita, KS. Out farm was directly in the flight path of the Beechcraft test flight facility. It had such a unique sound and I would drop whatvever I was doing to watch it. A truly beautiful airplane.

[cessnaking2001]

Ive seen this starship in this video in person several time i used to work at million air dallas and it flew in a few times really nice plane i've had the chance to crawl into it and look around ! sad that there arent more flying

[spryguy2008]

My friends dad has 3 of these. I believe he sold one but still flies one and is trying to get the 2nd flying. They are based out of Owensboro, KY

[ymanganelli]

wow thats so touchy... alike the b-17 when it was scrap down to make newer aircraft.. sad

[BenAndSam3]

i was just looking at a junk yard on google earth. 32°08'17.40"N 110° 52'07.79"W

[carlsoti]

What you're looking at is actually a museum. I don't recall the name of it, but it's associated with Davis/Monthan AFB near Tucson that has the "real" boneyard.

[jbryant13]

You know what struck me as I watched this was how the same fate befell GM's electric car - albiet for different reasons.

What a monumental waste to just "grind them up".

[stormthorgerson]

kelly johnson is waaaaaay bettter than burt rutan

[paralleler]

Kelly Johnson, who passed away nearly twenty years ago, was a fantastic aeronautical engineer but Burt Rutan is extremely talented in his own right.

[All2Meme]

Yes, but sadly Kelly Johnson passed away nearly twenty years ago; Burt Rutan is probably one of the greatest living aircraft engineers that we have right now. To be honest, I would love to have the talent of either Burt Rutan or Kelly Johnson (or both! :D).

[kpdxhammer]

Thanks for sharing this video! Yes, Very sad how it went for the initial venture, but I' happy to see that someone was able to rescue at least one beautiful bird!

[worlock1422]

I was lucky and got to get in one of these while I was with my CFI learning how to fly on a Cessna 172 at KSLN(home of Back then Beechcraft), This place is a 110% queen of the skies, Very sad that almost none of them are flying still. YOu would think the EAA would step in and go Hey, but I guess thats the world we live in, something as sexy as a Starship will become firewood =(

[JoesephBlack]

I guess it never pays to be the first in anything - the bleeding edge. Too much new technology for the time, combined with the ease in fuel prices spelled disaster. Meanwhile, the Piaggio Aero soldiers on, still in production. It pays to be second, I guess.

[TTandNRC]

thats sad :(

[elroto]

I crewed Beech King Air 200's and in the 80's my heart just jumped at the thought of getting some time in the Starship.

[oriano1000]

Very beautiful bird indeed! Working in Piaggio Aero, building P180 Avanti the only canard executive plane still produced today!

[captwildbilly]

There are other canard aircraft being built today, but the Avanti is not really one of them. The Avanti is a 3 surface airplane, not really a cannard. All the production cannards are now fighter aircraft, there were some civil aircraft that might still be available (Avtek 400, etc.) but I do not know for sure if any of them are in production.

[oriano1000]

yes captwildbilly, you're almost completely right, but I wrote Avanti is the only EXECUTIVE canard still in production, and I also know that P180 is not a pure canard 'cause the tailplane (the 3rd surface) but it's really more similar to a canard solution than a conventional design, so we're used to call it canard plane.

The plane is fantastic (I flew on it ) fast , cheap in fuel consumption and very confortable inside, the only problem is the inevitable propeller noise exp. in landing cfg.

[cessnaN60128]

The Wright Brothers would be proud of that machine

[Paulomedi]

Beautiful, BEAUTIFUL plane! I will have my own canard someday, for sure!