If God sent down these laws through Moses for mankind to follow, you have to admit he did a pretty shitty job constructing and communicating them. Modern secular laws, while complex, are pretty much unambiguous when it comes to issues like rape and slavery. You may argue specifics for any particular case, but the laws are well defined. You could never argue whether or not rape or slavery is acceptable to us. The point is; how could we ever use the bible as a moral code, (continued in reply)
@nelsonaddison (cont'd) when it is, at best, unclear about its position on slavery, rape, child abuse, homosexuality, etc.? If the bible was written by an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being, he certainly went out of his way to make it appear to be written by ignorant, unenlightened barbarians.
Some nice sentiments there but it's all just more dogma. Dogma is a BAD thing. That's my point. But perhaps I wouldn't mind your dogma if your god wasn't such an evil monster.
How about having a commandment: thou shalt not look down upon a rape victim. Or thou shalt not look upon one's child as property. Christians totally ignore the fact that their god could have so easily done these things.
@elibeth121 "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God." RIGHT?
"Trust in the lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding." RIGHT?
Anyone who can be honest with him/her self about the way things should work, while looking at the way the world is, will see that these are the most corrosively EVIL verses in the bible.
i wish we could tie all christians down with their eyelids open and be forced to listen to a audio book with lyrics in the video multiple times so they can no longer be so fucking ignorant of the bible
@wearestarstuffsagan : Hell no, then they'll burn in "hell" for eternity. They are grown adults that have been scared to death at childhood. They have been preyed on and now they have a difficult time letting go the SWEET concept of heaven. I'm 30 and I still can't grasp that the party is OVER after this show. It sucks sometimes knowing the truth.
rape is the most deplorable thing a person can do. listening to this caller is making my ears bleed. if anyone ever touched my mother or wife or daughter or any woman i know, they'd beg for hell after the shit i'd put them through.
@jbourg333 The only thing atheist reallyhave in common is the lack of belief in a god. Questions about morality, ethics, politics and so can of course vary, even if you agree on the first point.
If you want to know how how morals can excist without a god, i recommend you read "the moral landscape" by Sam Harris, or if you don't want to read, do a search here on youtube for Sam Harris + morality
It is good to read the whole chapter of Deutronomy 22 to get a better understand. A friend brought to my attention to the different instances and their perspective laws. Verse 25 describes perfectly the case of rape. Verse 29 sounds more like when a man entices an unengaged virgin and succeeds in having sex with her. The phrase- 'lay hold on her' indeed sounds trickish, but it doesnt necessarily mean 'raped', because then, the virgin's crying out matters a lot, however this is not mentioned.
@Kwartisaac So let me get this straight: Using your "morality", depending on whether a girl cries out while being raped can make the act moral or immoral? 'Lay hold on her' is from the King James Version, the most inaccurate version because it is based on recent manuscripts, which contain more errors and alterations, I might add. At least you read the chapter, That's a start I guess.
@DarkSanctuaryBBS No Sir, you didnt get this straight! I wasnt using my morality or personal opinion, I was just quoting what I read. If you want to know my personal opinion about rape, well I also think it is a criminal act and I am so happy the verse 25, no matter which translation you use stipulates the punishment of death which is even more strict than our modern approach, besides, these laws are not for us nor even the modern Jews. Please read Jeremiah 31:31.
@Kwartisaac With Jeremiah in mind, you still have to come to the conclusion that God use to be an immoral being, somehow getting better between the old and new covenant. If a God did exist, I would have more respect for it, and give it more credit than that. Any loving God would always be moral, past, present, and future. When I was a Christian, I use to reconcile the immorality in the Bible by dismissing the OT outright, because I could not except an immoral God.
@DarkSanctuaryBBS I hope you dont get me wrong, because I love the old tastement! I get touched by reading it, however, I know that except for the prophecies, the rest is not for me, not for my generation neither for my race! Jesus is my ticket in, sir. You said you used to be a christian, then you should know that you were a follower of Christ. Christ Himself was accused by followers of the law, this goes without saying that there are complications with the OT.
@doyoublush please read Matthew 5:17 and tell me if Jesus didnt change anything. In Christ, our righteousness should supersede the law follower, Righteousness is intensified.The law isnt the morality of God, God is perfect but the law is not.
@Kwartisaac Mat 5:17: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Which means that the law which God gave to Moses wasn't righteous after all? While Jesus himself did not come to destroy the prophets? This only contradicts your position even more. The Old Testament is God's word too, right?
But I agree with you that simply following the law does not make one moral, but understanding one's action and those of others does.
@Kwartisaac Or are you going to bring up "progressive revelation" now, to account for the discrepancies between the OT and the New Testament? If God is perfect, he can't change and therefore the main message and the commandments from the OT should be the same as in the NT.
And yes, Jesus did change the law, or at least the attitude towards it (Who is without sin etc.), which is some kind of progress after all.
@doyoublush God is indeed perfect.The law was the path of righteousness until Jesus came, then He became the path, Look at it like this, the modern cellphones have more functions and smaller than those before and yet they are all cellphones.
@Kwartisaac What a horrible analogy: no one would claim cellphones to be perfect or eternal.
Whether the Law is the path of righteousness, or Jesus, both come from a perfect and eternal God (according to some), so you still havent accounted for the discrepancies between the OT and the NT.
And how much evidence is there for what you claim? Apart from an old book and the word-game magic farytaile of theology? Any empirical evidence?
@doyoublush I find your reaction rather horrible and I realised it is because you simply choose not to reason with whatever I would say, in other words, you are busily being an atheism rather than being objective. What are we talking about? Perfection of God? The fact that He is eternal? Discrepancies in the bible? Jesus' modification of the law? Choose a particular topic! And now you want evidence for what? What do I claim? It's a mess here!
@Kwartisaac You make all kinds of statements that you can't back up with evidence. And you blame me for spelling that out?
PS: I am of the opinion that being an atheist helps you become more objective and that the diversity of religious beliefs only result in one thing: delusion...
@doyoublush God has a word for every generation, since generations are not the same, God also modifies His word to suite. This has nothing to do with His perfection. Jesus didnt allow a woman caught in the act of adultry to be stoned whiles the OT said , yet He was in perfect agreement with God Read John 10:30. The bible is a book of reference, history and source of inspiration, but the word of God is a gift to those who can perceive.
@Kwartisaac What is more likely? That God changes alongside with humanity, or that humanity changes and that therefore our perception of the supernatural changes as well? In other words, what is more likely? That we are created in the image of God (despite the amount of evidence pro evolution), or that thousands of Gods have been created in our own image? And what makes you think that your own religion is the only exception? And what is your epistemological claim behind it?
@doyoublush God is the same yesterday, today and forever. He doesnt change. God created us in His image of lordship rather than in His physical image. He rules the uviverse and so also do we rule over the other creatures on earth. Concerning evolution, how come it is taking the chimpansees so long to turn into tarzans? Somebody will turn 1 year tomorrow, others, 50, 80,100 and so on....Some monkey can also spring into human, why not? Everyday is somebody's birth/day.
@Kwartisaac For the supernatural part of your comment: what can be asserted without evidence, can be rejected without evidence. And what logic is there in "God rules us, SO we rule the other creatures" (except for what the Bible says)?
The second part of your post is a misrepresentation of evolution. Every species evolves gradually, in it's own way, by natural selection and random mutation.
@Kwartisaac Regarding evolution; evolution has no goal in mind, only that those that are most adapted to their environments survive. Chimps are perfectly suited to theirs. You show your ignorance on the subject. If you really wanted to know the answers to your questions, it wouldn't be difficult to find out; there are tons of books on the subject. I suggest Why Evolution is True, by Jerry Coyne.
@DarkSanctuaryBBS Ok sir. Since you profess to know, why dont you tell me what caused the big bang? And please no excuses, I need a straight answer because you know. Help me out here. After I am convinced of your answer, we can talk further about evolution.
@Kwartisaac That's a red herring. Evolution has nothing to do with the big bang. Why do you people always resort to logical fallacies? Just in case you don't know: A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic.
@DarkSanctuaryBBS I thought I asked you to give me a straight answer! Yes I did deviated from evolution and I also told you I would come back to the issue after you answered me. Because you display such pride and quickly call others ignorant, I pushed you to answer a question you couldnt to help you realise you might not be different from us at all. Anyway, sure, lets get back to evolution.
@Kwartisaac No answer was given, because none is deserved. It doesn't relate to the topic at hand. I have very little interest in big bang theory, therefore have no knowledge of it. If I haven't studied it, I am not qualified to talk about it, fair enough?
@Kwartisaac I don't know what caused the big bang. But here's the funny bit: you don't know either! Call it God, or Allah, or Zeus, or Wotan, or Osiris, or whatever. It doesn't explain a thing.
@doyoublush Science only studies what God created, they try to understand and give names to their discovery. Whatever you see around you, including you yourself with the unviverse added, God spoke them all into being! But ofcourse, I know you dont want to believe it. The big bang question was not meant for you anyway.
@Kwartisaac No one knows, which is why you don't get to use it as proof of God, because that would be an argument from ignorance.
The whole point of atheism is that saying "I don't know" is preferable to picking an answer for the wrong reasons, since picking answers for the wrong reasons inevitably leads to bad answers.
@YaleBreaker If I use it as a proof of God, then I am arguing from the knowledge of God which obviously you dont have. What we gain as christian is the insight of mystery which science doesnt have. We fellow science too, therefore we have knowledge in both, unlike you who wait till science discovers something before you can say :' I know' . Secondly, Matt doesnt say 'I dont know', he says ; 'I know there is no God'. Therefore you defination is wrong.
@Kwartisaac OK, what's your knowledge of God, and how do you justify that knowledge? And can you demonstrate that your "insight of mystery", whatever that means, is a more reliable route to knowledge than science? (Hint: you need science to disprove science.)
@YaleBreaker My knowledge of God is that He is the creator of everything. Check the God believing people, they are peaceful, positive and polite. They can withstand challenges better because they hope is in God, not too quick to commit suicide.
I dont dissaprove of science, infact, I love science but science is not meant to oppose God. (hint: It takes only a religion to cancel a religion and science is not a religion unless you want to make it as such)
@Kwartisaac "Check the God believing people, they are peaceful, positive and polite." Not all of them. Not even necessarily most of them. And even if they were all saints, this has no bearing on whether or not God is real.
"science is not meant to oppose God" - I agree, though I would add that it's not meant to support him either.
"It takes only a religion to cancel a religion" - what does that even mean, and what makes you think so?
@YaleBreaker his statement "it takes only a religion to cancel a religion" is a weak attempt at twisting and throwing your own concept back at you. He is just going to sit here and preach about how good and right his religion is, with no valid or demonstratable proof of the key piece.
@hawklord2001 Why dont you give your knowledge of Orcs to the historians to add onto their collection let they are stucked with the bible. Jesus is the only physical proof of God, the rest is supernatural and you can experience God only through faith, which you dont have, but not through the microscope like you so wish. Concerning challenges in life, check suicide victims and tell me how many are believers. Have fun
@Kwartisaac: I don't even know how to use a microscope so don't generalize all atheist. I accept phone calls though. As for the suicide stats, all it proves is that you are delusional and bet your entire life on the PROMISE of an afterlife, to get over your "demons". How about you go check the statistics concerning pedophilia and tell me how many were Christian Priests?
@Akira625 very right, yet they keep asking for scientific evidence. If God could be detected by science, then He wouldnt be God but rather something beneath our intelligence.
@Kwartisaac You don't have any knowledge of god. If you did, you would be able to demonstrate it to another person and videos like this would not exist. You have a personal belief backed solely by faith. If god existed there would without a doubt be proof. If he DOES exist, the only teachings of his we have is a 2000 year old book full of immoral, cruel, and contradicting statements. Even if he was proven true, I would rather burn in hell than worship such a sadistic being.
And howcome then, that God does not in fact has a word for every generetion and that despite that humanity transformed dramatically the past 2000 years, no longer additional holy books appear on the bookshelves of Christianity?
It has a fairly simple answer: because fellow primates of our own species, who are - just like you and me - only half a chromosome away from being chimpansee, canonized Christianity.
@doyoublush Your answer is wrong! There are tongs of books written by people inspired by God. They could be added to the bible but there is no need . See, I 've being trying to tell you but you dont seem to understand, the word of God was before and is after the bible. The word of God is life itself. It cant be contained in a book! God didnt ask anyone to write the bible by the way. Those who wrote the books did posterity a great favor.
@Kwartisaac You are wrong. Those books you are talking about can't be added to the Bible, since it is a holy book that is not to be changed. That would change God's eternal word.
That there is a word of God before and after the Bible? If you say God is life, I could follow your tracks for quite a while, but that would be about it.
I think the Bible has retarded society and only occasionally did a favor to humanity...
@doyoublush try this experiment with the bible then, put it in water or fire, if it burns or gets wet, then you know it is still book as any other . It is the word of God which makes something holy, holy people, holy city, holy bible etc. Jesus Himself is the word of God, John 1. As long as He lives can the word of God still be written or spoken. It didnt end at Revealations!
@Kwartisaac of course my Bible will burn if I put it in fire and of course it will get wet when I throw it in a canal, but I won't do that, because the book costed me 40 euro's. the second part of your message?
"what can be asserted without evidence, can be rejected without evidence"
@doyoublush Hahahah! you make me laugh at last! Ok, keep your bible as I keep mine. Now that American soldiers even piss on dead corps, I suggest everyone get right with God. There is such darkness and untold wickness in the heart of men, it takes only God to demp it. Concerning Christopher Hitchens phrase, this is absolutely not applicable to God! If you read your bible well, you will get a good idea about who God is. Once you understand, you cant ask for evidence of His existence!
@Kwartisaac The idea that Jesus was born of a virgin is based on a translation error from antiquity. In the Hebrew Bible only the word "almah" is used, which means "young woman". When the Hebrew Bible was translated in Greek - the Septuaginta - a word was used that could also mean "virgin". Since the NT writers wrote in Greek, they used the Septuaginta and therefore in the reverse-engeneering process of Jesus as the Messias he was made born of a virgin. It is applicable to God...
@doyoublush Even in today's generation of the jewish community, 'young woman' still automatically implies 'a virgin'. They are still pure. Unless the hebrew bible stated that this particular 'almah' was already married, you dont have a case. Ofcourse I wouldnt make a mistake to use the exact words in our world where girls of 12yrs are already sexually active and by 25yrs, cant even count how many guys they have slept with. 'Virgin' suits best.
@Kwartisaac About the virgin birth, you are wrong twice. Firstly, because there is a separate word for "virgin" in Hebrew. Secondly, since the prophet Isaiah was not referring to the Messias: "In the Hebrew Bible, Isaiah indicates that a “young woman” will conceive and bear a son, a prediction not of a future Messiah but of an event that was soon to take place in Isaiah’s own day." (Bart Ehrman "Jesus, Interrupted", 2009, p. 74) Good luck!
@doyoublush Like I said earlier, a young unmaried woman in the jewish world even in the present generation still implies, a virgin automatically. I have jewish groups coming to my work twice a week. I know what I am saying. The bible tells further how Joseph was troubled by the situation. How can you doubt that? Concerning the prophecy of Isaiah, dont go there! You already have trouble believing in God, understanding His prophet will be too much to take.
@Kwartisaac I'm an archaeologist and historian. Reading a historical book - the Bible is just one of them - won't be too much to as for. The first part of your message about the Virging-bit; historians like Ehrmann tend to disagree with you.
There is no way of making an analogy between current Jews and the Jews of Jesus' time. That would be ignoring 2000 years of dynamic history in which the meaning attached to words can change.
@doyoublush wow nice job! Anyway, tell me the story of the lifestyle of the religious jews 2000 years ago. The way I see it, unless Mary had a husband before, as long as she was engaged to Joseph and was also a young woman like you put it, the idea that she may not be a virgin is a little bit extreem unless the bible lied big time. My apologies to Ehrmann.
@Kwartisaac If you want to know more about the subject: go to a library. The books of Ehrmann are a good introduction; I read them first, because my specialisation is in North-Western Europe.
Yes, the Bible contains lies, just like every religious book. What is more likely: that Jesus was born of a virgin, or the a Jewish woman told a little lie, because she had been a bit naughty? (David Hume)
@doyoublush Concerning evolution, the only evidence I can think of is that my generation is losing their human values because they've been told their ancestors are animals and so they are acting as such. Marriage doesnt work anymore because animals dont bond! The youth are sleeping around, geting drunk and stone, they carry knives around ready to fight according to the new 3 days ago! Kids dont respect their parents anymore etc on on, just like the beasts!
@Kwartisaac Not only were our ancestors animals, SO ARE WE! By definition, we are animals. From the Oxford dictionary: Animal, a living organism which feeds on organic matter, typically having specialized sense organs and nervous system and able to respond rapidly to stimuli. By the way, there are animals that are completely monogamous. They mate for life. I find your ignorance on every subject astounding. Throw your book of myths in the garbage and read a real book.
@DarkSanctuaryBBS Go ahead and be an animal then, I will stay a Man. I hope you come across that word in you oxford dictionary too.Concerning animals who are completely monogamous, lets just ask them to teach their human children to practise it as well. I'd like to keep my bible and follow science as well, so that I would have knowledge of both. Thanks for the advise and welcome back.
@Kwartisaac Oxford Dictionary, Man: An adult human male. Your point? Let's continue, what's human mean? It means member of Homo Sapiens. What's Homo Sapiens mean? Let's refer back to our good old friend the dictionary of Oxford: Homo sapiens, the primate species to which modern humans belong. You can stop with your semantic masturbation now, and play on words.
@Kwartisaac Just did. Perhaps you should read the whole thing, instead of cherry picking for what you want to find. The last line, and take note of the last word: "The biological definition of the word refers to all members of the kingdom Animalia, encompassing creatures as diverse as sponges, jellyfish, insects and humans.[3]". Am I a biologist? I wasn't aware that I needed to be one to understand word definitions.
@doyoublush I am already learning a lot about evolution on the net. Maybe you can also start to learn more about the nature of God in the bible so that you dont ask for evidence of Him in the future. I must say I enjoy talk with you, because you seem to be one of the few atheisst out there who is still polite.
@Kwartisaac I already have read the Bible. I used to be a Christian. Actually, I really dig Jesus. It's Christian's I generally don't like, because they are so unlike him. Jesus was kind, forgiving, and wise. What I generally get from Christians is hatred, unforgiveness, and credulity. BTW, I hope your are learning evolution from credible sources, not creationist websites. How would you feel if the only thing atheists learned about the Bible was from atheist websites?
@DarkSanctuaryBBS How was Jesus kind, forgiving and wise? Give examples please. What is it about Jesus that you dig? I am learning evolution from wikipedia. So far, evolution to me is like somebody saying, vehicles start with bicycle, then evolved into a motor byke, into a car and now a plane. Though they all show similar features and have the same concept, yet each is built apart. This is the misconception of one trying to a story he doesnt know b'caus he wasnt there......
@Kwartisaac You mean you don't agree that he was kind, forgiving, and wise? Those are aspects I attribute to him from my readings of the four gospels. Sorry to say, I don't have specific verses memorized. That's a poor understanding of evolution. Comparing mechanical devices to biology is like comparing apples to plastic oranges. Mechanical devices don't self replicate, and replicate with mistakes, the driving force of evolution. watch?v=q76jw0ZB9hA
@DarkSanctuaryBBS Jesus gave healing to people, He also forgave men of their sins and yes, He was wise. He did these because of His divinity. If you dig Him for that, it indicates you are still a believer. That is a confusing signal to give as an atheist.
@Kwartisaac Aside from the healing (which I doubt took place), you don't have to be divine to do those things. I never said I was an atheist. I prefer rationalist. But if you prefer, agnostic.
@Kwartisaac I have studied the Bible, and the God of the Bible is man-made. The man-made is written all over it, but it is even worse. The Bible and it's God is not only man-made; it's masculine-made. That proves enough for me, looking at the fact that most Bronze Ages societies were, or used to be essentially androcentristic.
@DarkSanctuaryBBS God has not changed, He has walked with men by seasons, Jesus had to come to usher a new season, and even He had to leave to give way to the Holyspirit, and this is the season we are in now, after this season, the sun turns red. Read Joel 2:28. Isnt it funny how everybody is talking about the end of the world, even not believers! Check the signs and get back to Christ.
I love it how the Christian is dodging the question every single time Matt asks him about the slaves...They always do that in general in discussions and it makes me sick to see that people are so brainwashed...
Oh, the Sabbath was on Saturday. Good to know I've spent five years being liable to be stoned to death when I went to school 6 days a week according to biblical law, but at least this guy hasn't, cool.
Will somebody read Exodus 22:16 and show me where he found the word 'rape' ? Or 'forced sex' . I only saw words like; entice and seuduce. When two people are attracted to each other, the chance is very big that one might seduce the other, if they end up in sexual relationship, what is wrong with the fact that one advices them to marry?
@Kwartisaac There isn't, because that isn't the passage being discussed. Deuteronomy 22:28-29 28This is what you must do when a man rapes a virgin who isn’t engaged. When the crime is discovered, 29the man who had sexual intercourse with her must give the girl’s father 1¼ pounds of silver, and she will become his wife. Since he raped her, he can never divorce her as long as he lives.[a]
Nobody felt sorry for Osama Bin Ladens death's , there was rather jubilation. I guess we can come up with numerous reasons why he deserved it eventhough is was still a human being. However, we fail to understand how a sinner doesnt mean anything to the holy God. In those days, God passed judgement to the nations by the hands of the Israelites. This is why the outside slaves were treated different. God didnt initiate slavery, it was practised accross all Asia and no slave was beaten in the bible.
Men were chosen for women for marriage in those days, this was their custom. Wheather they were raped or not, the women didnt get to choose for themselves. Therefore, if one raped a woman, he is forced to marry her even though he might have had another woman in mind. This is in the best interest of the woman. I dont see what is wrong with that! It seems we are taking customs of an old civilization and judging it according to our modern moral standard. This is wrong!
@DarkSanctuaryBBS am I immoral because I am putting things in their right perspectives? Lions kill and feed on their fellow animals, is this correct or you are suddenly going to understand and say it is their food? If you accept that, why cant you accept that culture, even 50 years ago, husbands were carefully chosen by the parents of the bridge in Africa, and guess what, the couple sticked together for life. Almost zero divorce cases.
@Kwartisaac No, you are immoral because you said: "This is in the best interest of the woman. I dont see what is wrong with that!". Any sane and rational person would recognized this, and say that this type of action was always immoral, but the bronze age barbarians and the God they invented didn't know any better.
@pieter292 you sound very moral and mature! Is this what Atheism has to offer? In my little experience with you people, I havent met a single person who shows respect, you claim to be intelligent but all I hear is rude and arrogance, if we all go by that, the world wouldnt survive a second, this is evil in the hearts of men, check history and you will understand why your fore fathers uphold the Gospel. You need Jesus man! I'm done!
@Kwartisaac Thanks for the advice...I did check history about my fore fathers and yes,apart from the 400 yr persecution,torture and murder of non believers in the inquisition,the crusades,the burning of women as witches, the annihilation and subjugation of the native people of the entire continent of South America,the endorsement of slavery and the persecution of homosexuals,apart from these,then yes religion has done nothing wrong...maybe you should try a little more experience with 'us people'
@pieter292 maybe it is religion in general sense, that you are against because non of these have got anything to do with Jesus Christ. This is no different from using a weapon to kill a fellow human whiles the intention of the weapon maker was to use to defend yourself against animal attacks.
@Kwartisaac Right so you have no problem saying I'm not moral or mature and people are rude and arrogant in the name of their atheism and yet all my examples of behavior in the name of christianity are unfounded?..all those christians weren't real christians even though they openly said they were acting in the name of God?..did they 'need jesus man' as well?..either think properly or don't answer..you've bored me!!!
@Kwartisaac so a poor man who lusts after a rich woman can just rape her and then not only gain a hefty dowry, but also a wife? how is this fair? how is this to the woman's best interest?
@joe1234567890i Thank you for your question. In that generation, about 3400 years ago, women were treated as properties , rich women? Very rare! According to this custom, victims of rape were deprived of husbands because they lost their virginity. They end up prostitutes or childless, etc. God said he that caused this plight to the poor woman should be made her husband. Women, whether raped or not, didnt choose their husbands themselves.
@Kwartisaac Women who are individually rich? very rare indeed. However, women part of rich families? I'd say there's a 50% chance of rich couples producing a female offspring. I think this disparity between current moral standards and those of the past in itself supports the idea that "God" is not just. The fact that the bible is grounded so much in the past discredits its universality.
@Kwartisaac "It seems we are taking customs of an old civilization and judging it according to our modern moral standard. This is wrong!"
How is that wrong? If we take the bible to be the work of god and morally absolute, then values and morals described in this book should be timeless and universal, should they not?
Otherwise, what "evidence" do we have that it is in fact divine writing and not the primitive beliefs of a bunch of bronze agers?
@AliRadicali Thank u for these questions. This is the confusion that results from traditionalizing the bible. Not every word in the bible is from God. We should be able to identify what God said from what the author added onto it. The work of God is both inside and outside the bible, God didnt write nor asked anyone to write the bible, it is rather some good men who thought of posterity and recorded some of the events, however like we all are, they too were subject to faults.
@Kwartisaac the moral statutes that God gave are tied to those generations they were given because these statutes were relevant to their behavior. Yes God changes His methods according to certain dispensation of time and that is why Jesus' generation couldnt accept Him because He didnt come the way they expected. In our generation, God is dealing with us according to our moral behavior, why do you bother about slaves and forced marriages? Do we have markets for slaves?
@Kwartisaac It is wrong because the woman is treated as property. Being married to your own rapist is not in a woman's best interest. It only makes sense if women are property, virginity is required for a woman to be owned by a man, rape lowers her value and sex is a mark of territorialism.There are still people in American culture who believe that women are property. The attitudes that underlie ancient customs are still in this world. Judging the past may help us move past it.
@BraidedLily I totally agree with you. Women are not to be treated as properties. God didnt give Eve to Adam as a property. He also ddnt create that practice, men did. You did admit it can only make sense if...... Therefore when I said, it is in the best interest of the women, I am also thinking in this context, placing myself in that generation and imagining what would have become of the victim, deprived of a husband, therefore God judged right.
We shouldn't be judging past customs based off of OUR current moral standard, correct ---
Unless there is an infallible book written that the person making this statement ascribes to, then whatever the book says should be correct. The authority of the customs aren't being weighed here, it is the authority of God himself.
@YetAnotherInfidel I am suprised you dont weigh the customs of this generation because if you take God out of the picture, this is what happens to victims of rape;1.they will never get husbands ; 2 they probably end up in prostitution and lose all respect in that soceity and 3; the chance of making children is very slim. God said the man who caused such plight to the victim should marry her. God is the hero!
I couldn't agree more. I have seen much of this warping in people's simple explanations as to why there is so much commanded killing in the Bible, scowling as people said that eveyone deserved to die in a global flood and that the massacres in all those cities were justified because they were all bad people. They even justify why the babies were slaughtered, saying they were born corrupt.
@YetAnotherInfidel I guess their God went to the pharmacy, took some medicine, and got better. He is no longer sick, twisted, and demented. Wait, scratch that. In the New Testament he demands a HUMAN sacrifice. Can't get much more sick and demented than that. What, in the the 21st century, are people doing still believing such tripe? I understand the need to believe in an afterlife for comfort, but why THIS?
Their God lives in their brain, and their brain produces the cure for the flaws they find. A bit of cognitive dissonance seems to cure all the ills their "God" suffers from. They hear the flaws, they see what's wrong with the situation, but they still drudge on compliantly assuming that it is either interpreted wrong or that it is simply right for obscure reasons.
They fail to see the simple things, preferring dogma to any form of logic or sculpted reason.
@YetAnotherInfidel according to your conjecture; 1: only a rapist beats his wife. Your second is also wrong since the society didnt disrespect a married woman and thirdly, she births children of her husband. Please read Exodus 22:16. It doesnt neccessarily talk about a rapist but rather, sex before marriage.
According to my conjecture, a rapist is more likely to beat his wife as he raped her in the first place. Would you let your mother live with a rapist, especially as her husband?
She was raped, therefore they lose status in society as being "pure". That is, put in terms you can understand, bad for her.
Third, she births the children of someone who raped her and is STILL RAPING HER. You idiot!!
@YetAnotherInfidel There we go again! Anothere atheist being disrespectful. You guys talk about being moral, well, dont fool yourself because you cant even tame your tongue. You give opinion on issues you dont fully understand and you think everybody should take your point and when they dont, you start showing your true colors: Rude Rude Rude!!! Well, why am I not suprise! Being polite is too tough, that's why you cant stand religion because it makes you! Dont reply, Im bored!
You advocate that it be law for rapists to marry those they raped.
What responce do you expect?
I understand your Bible better than you do, and you should expect anyone with morals to naturally respond negatively to someone who, basically, would like to see rapists/rapee couples forced into society.
I don't like religion because it is false and harmful, something that is quite apparent in you.
On top of it all, you didn't even give any evidence for your God.
@Kwartisaac In other words, you and your lot don't care about morality that will benefit everybody, All you care about is religiously correct speech and religiously correct sex & reproduction.
All other morality is relative for you, i.e., "Thou shalt not kill" unless the diety directs otherwise.
@Kwartisaac Is your God not all powerful? Could he not impose a new set of commandments? Though shalt not treat women as property? Is he that weak and insignificant that he has to work AROUND people's immoral behaviour. Certainly such a figure is not worthy of any kind of worship, even if it did exist. It should indeed be scorned for its weakness and ineptness.
@Kwartisaac None of what you say makes any sense. God man man, and he wrote the law. If the people are poorly made and thus rape each other, and God's law regarding their punishment is both immoral and cruel, then God is an immoral, cruel, dick. You're the worst apologist ever, and you throw away your own morality to defend a clearly immoral God. All you've shown is that atheists are both superior to you morally and also personally responsible for how awesome we are. Thanks :-)
hahaha, the comments and the caller don't want to answer the question with a simple yes or no. They have to say "la la la, wasn't the same back then as it is now" so pathetic that they have to make excuses to justify the shit in their bible.
@DarkSanctuaryBBS - To begin w/ our present attitude towards God is not in the least of the Hebrew then.The Law of Moses were given to Hebrews; There was a stigma w/ consequences for that couple; so if one had that in mind, you'd have to think it over well before commiting the crime. Stoning was to both if she didn't cry out for help (fornication).Stoning the man, would likely leave her single, possibly pregnate & shamed.
I love the bible. Rape someone, and you get to marry them. There is this hot young girl who lives next door, I;m going over to her place, gonna break in and rape her... Don;t worry its ok. I'm taking a ring with me when I;m done I will propose. Man! Don't know why i didn;t think of this before! Since i turned 45 i just cant get the 16 year old's to look at me. Now, I am well sorted.
How about if, instead making a rape victim marry her rapist, the god of the bible said that a woman's worth is not tied to her virginity, that she is not the property of her father or, if she marries, her husband, that women have rights equal to men? How about that? The problem would be solved without further vicimizing women.
Mike is taking the classical route: "oh you gotta look at the whole Bible, and look at the overall picture. Bible teaches love, so of course we don't beat slaves". What a load of crap. This is essentially translating to "i can forget about the passages that make my belief look bad, and just look at the passages i like."
Does anybody know the episode where Matt is talking about the sketchiness of Jesus raising the dead? Matt says something like "..Boy that's awfully strange that no one else recorded that, I mean you have a graveyard full of zombies walking into downtown Jerusalem and nobody says anything?!" If anybody knows what episode this is on please tell me! Been looking for it for MONTHS
what about how the jews went against god and stopped believeing in jesus and god said hed punish them for not believing in him becouse those were his own people as far as i know hitler killed 6 million jews muslims hate jews and the kkk hates blacks mexicans and jews jews are the most hated race on the planet is that just a coincidence?
if you don think that this world is so complex there has to be a creator and all of life just came from microscopic bacteria than theres something i dont know about going on inside your head but maybe you should see a doctor
@TheGhghghhjhjhj Come on now, you're putting me on. I don't believe for a second that your for real. Joke's over. I don't know what you are trying to accomplish by pretending to be a creationist.
@TheGhghghhjhjhj BTW, if you are for real, what you just used is the irreducible complexity argument. There is rebuttals to this argument as well. I would suggest you stop wasting people's time and do some research on these "arguments" you keep using. NOTHING you have said thus far is anything I haven't heard before. Better yet, call The Atheist Experience this Sunday. I'd LOVE to hear that call!
im giving you clear evidence and happeing that happend to me the only thing your doing is saying no your wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong!!! that is easy to do
@TheGhghghhjhjhj You're not giving evidence. You're giving anecdotal stories. People give these all the time for things like being abducted by aliens, seeing Bigfoot, leprechauns, etc. Am I to believe all that nonsense too, based on nothing else but someones say so? You need to educate yourself and understand what evidence really is, and do research from reputable websites, not creationist ones: garbage in, garbage out.
Hehehhe. You're done Mike.
TugsN 7 hours ago
you dont need a 2000 year old book to tell you how to behave.
Phx8ball602 3 days ago
Check Matt !
robur1970 1 week ago
If God sent down these laws through Moses for mankind to follow, you have to admit he did a pretty shitty job constructing and communicating them. Modern secular laws, while complex, are pretty much unambiguous when it comes to issues like rape and slavery. You may argue specifics for any particular case, but the laws are well defined. You could never argue whether or not rape or slavery is acceptable to us. The point is; how could we ever use the bible as a moral code, (continued in reply)
nelsonaddison 2 weeks ago 3
@nelsonaddison (cont'd) when it is, at best, unclear about its position on slavery, rape, child abuse, homosexuality, etc.? If the bible was written by an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being, he certainly went out of his way to make it appear to be written by ignorant, unenlightened barbarians.
nelsonaddison 2 weeks ago
beautiful
AGRANT716 2 weeks ago
I fucking hate apologetics. They can justify anything.
bobster451 2 weeks ago 9
@bobster451 I call it bullshitting.
hydrall9 6 days ago
OWNED! Mike READ your POS book. READ IT.
Tommyr 2 weeks ago
Some nice sentiments there but it's all just more dogma. Dogma is a BAD thing. That's my point. But perhaps I wouldn't mind your dogma if your god wasn't such an evil monster.
dymchurch1 3 weeks ago
How about having a commandment: thou shalt not look down upon a rape victim. Or thou shalt not look upon one's child as property. Christians totally ignore the fact that their god could have so easily done these things.
dymchurch1 3 weeks ago
@dymchurch1 Considering there is not an commandment of that you are wrong.
elibeth121 3 weeks ago
@elibeth121 "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God." RIGHT?
"Trust in the lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding." RIGHT?
Anyone who can be honest with him/her self about the way things should work, while looking at the way the world is, will see that these are the most corrosively EVIL verses in the bible.
dymchurch1 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
elibeth121 3 weeks ago
@elibeth121 "God teaches us to discern and listen to his voice. .The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”"
Rejecting your claim is not the same as saying "There is No God"?
hawklord2001 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
elibeth121 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@elibeth121 "That is right God does teach us to discern and listen to his voice."
So God has spoken to you directly?
"The unbelievers say There is no God."
I don't.
hawklord2001 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
elibeth121 2 weeks ago
@elibeth121
"Trust in Lord"
No thanks
I'll be moral instead
boyinthedrain 1 week ago 5
This has been flagged as spam show
@boyinthedrain You are more moral with God.
elibeth121 1 week ago
Comment removed
elibeth121 2 weeks ago
i wish we could tie all christians down with their eyelids open and be forced to listen to a audio book with lyrics in the video multiple times so they can no longer be so fucking ignorant of the bible
wearestarstuffsagan 1 month ago
@wearestarstuffsagan : Hell no, then they'll burn in "hell" for eternity. They are grown adults that have been scared to death at childhood. They have been preyed on and now they have a difficult time letting go the SWEET concept of heaven. I'm 30 and I still can't grasp that the party is OVER after this show. It sucks sometimes knowing the truth.
llcasanova 3 weeks ago
rape is the most deplorable thing a person can do. listening to this caller is making my ears bleed. if anyone ever touched my mother or wife or daughter or any woman i know, they'd beg for hell after the shit i'd put them through.
youthank8 1 month ago
Why is Matt arguing objective morality here? I thought atheists don't believe in objective morality?
Seems rather silly for him to argue a point many atheists have refuted in public debates. So I'm rather curious about it.
jbourg333 1 month ago
@jbourg333 The only thing atheist reallyhave in common is the lack of belief in a god. Questions about morality, ethics, politics and so can of course vary, even if you agree on the first point.
If you want to know how how morals can excist without a god, i recommend you read "the moral landscape" by Sam Harris, or if you don't want to read, do a search here on youtube for Sam Harris + morality
neuromatiker 1 month ago
It is good to read the whole chapter of Deutronomy 22 to get a better understand. A friend brought to my attention to the different instances and their perspective laws. Verse 25 describes perfectly the case of rape. Verse 29 sounds more like when a man entices an unengaged virgin and succeeds in having sex with her. The phrase- 'lay hold on her' indeed sounds trickish, but it doesnt necessarily mean 'raped', because then, the virgin's crying out matters a lot, however this is not mentioned.
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac So let me get this straight: Using your "morality", depending on whether a girl cries out while being raped can make the act moral or immoral? 'Lay hold on her' is from the King James Version, the most inaccurate version because it is based on recent manuscripts, which contain more errors and alterations, I might add. At least you read the chapter, That's a start I guess.
DarkSanctuaryBBS 1 month ago
@DarkSanctuaryBBS No Sir, you didnt get this straight! I wasnt using my morality or personal opinion, I was just quoting what I read. If you want to know my personal opinion about rape, well I also think it is a criminal act and I am so happy the verse 25, no matter which translation you use stipulates the punishment of death which is even more strict than our modern approach, besides, these laws are not for us nor even the modern Jews. Please read Jeremiah 31:31.
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac With Jeremiah in mind, you still have to come to the conclusion that God use to be an immoral being, somehow getting better between the old and new covenant. If a God did exist, I would have more respect for it, and give it more credit than that. Any loving God would always be moral, past, present, and future. When I was a Christian, I use to reconcile the immorality in the Bible by dismissing the OT outright, because I could not except an immoral God.
DarkSanctuaryBBS 1 month ago 8
@DarkSanctuaryBBS I hope you dont get me wrong, because I love the old tastement! I get touched by reading it, however, I know that except for the prophecies, the rest is not for me, not for my generation neither for my race! Jesus is my ticket in, sir. You said you used to be a christian, then you should know that you were a follower of Christ. Christ Himself was accused by followers of the law, this goes without saying that there are complications with the OT.
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac didn't Jesus say somewhere in the NT that he did not come to change the law?
doyoublush 1 month ago
@doyoublush please read Matthew 5:17 and tell me if Jesus didnt change anything. In Christ, our righteousness should supersede the law follower, Righteousness is intensified.The law isnt the morality of God, God is perfect but the law is not.
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac Mat 5:17: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Which means that the law which God gave to Moses wasn't righteous after all? While Jesus himself did not come to destroy the prophets? This only contradicts your position even more. The Old Testament is God's word too, right?
But I agree with you that simply following the law does not make one moral, but understanding one's action and those of others does.
doyoublush 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac Or are you going to bring up "progressive revelation" now, to account for the discrepancies between the OT and the New Testament? If God is perfect, he can't change and therefore the main message and the commandments from the OT should be the same as in the NT.
And yes, Jesus did change the law, or at least the attitude towards it (Who is without sin etc.), which is some kind of progress after all.
doyoublush 1 month ago
@doyoublush God is indeed perfect.The law was the path of righteousness until Jesus came, then He became the path, Look at it like this, the modern cellphones have more functions and smaller than those before and yet they are all cellphones.
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac What a horrible analogy: no one would claim cellphones to be perfect or eternal.
Whether the Law is the path of righteousness, or Jesus, both come from a perfect and eternal God (according to some), so you still havent accounted for the discrepancies between the OT and the NT.
And how much evidence is there for what you claim? Apart from an old book and the word-game magic farytaile of theology? Any empirical evidence?
doyoublush 1 month ago
@doyoublush I find your reaction rather horrible and I realised it is because you simply choose not to reason with whatever I would say, in other words, you are busily being an atheism rather than being objective. What are we talking about? Perfection of God? The fact that He is eternal? Discrepancies in the bible? Jesus' modification of the law? Choose a particular topic! And now you want evidence for what? What do I claim? It's a mess here!
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac You make all kinds of statements that you can't back up with evidence. And you blame me for spelling that out?
PS: I am of the opinion that being an atheist helps you become more objective and that the diversity of religious beliefs only result in one thing: delusion...
doyoublush 1 month ago
@doyoublush God has a word for every generation, since generations are not the same, God also modifies His word to suite. This has nothing to do with His perfection. Jesus didnt allow a woman caught in the act of adultry to be stoned whiles the OT said , yet He was in perfect agreement with God Read John 10:30. The bible is a book of reference, history and source of inspiration, but the word of God is a gift to those who can perceive.
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac What is more likely? That God changes alongside with humanity, or that humanity changes and that therefore our perception of the supernatural changes as well? In other words, what is more likely? That we are created in the image of God (despite the amount of evidence pro evolution), or that thousands of Gods have been created in our own image? And what makes you think that your own religion is the only exception? And what is your epistemological claim behind it?
doyoublush 1 month ago
@doyoublush God is the same yesterday, today and forever. He doesnt change. God created us in His image of lordship rather than in His physical image. He rules the uviverse and so also do we rule over the other creatures on earth. Concerning evolution, how come it is taking the chimpansees so long to turn into tarzans? Somebody will turn 1 year tomorrow, others, 50, 80,100 and so on....Some monkey can also spring into human, why not? Everyday is somebody's birth/day.
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac For the supernatural part of your comment: what can be asserted without evidence, can be rejected without evidence. And what logic is there in "God rules us, SO we rule the other creatures" (except for what the Bible says)?
The second part of your post is a misrepresentation of evolution. Every species evolves gradually, in it's own way, by natural selection and random mutation.
doyoublush 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac Regarding evolution; evolution has no goal in mind, only that those that are most adapted to their environments survive. Chimps are perfectly suited to theirs. You show your ignorance on the subject. If you really wanted to know the answers to your questions, it wouldn't be difficult to find out; there are tons of books on the subject. I suggest Why Evolution is True, by Jerry Coyne.
DarkSanctuaryBBS 1 month ago
@DarkSanctuaryBBS Ok sir. Since you profess to know, why dont you tell me what caused the big bang? And please no excuses, I need a straight answer because you know. Help me out here. After I am convinced of your answer, we can talk further about evolution.
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac That's a red herring. Evolution has nothing to do with the big bang. Why do you people always resort to logical fallacies? Just in case you don't know: A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic.
DarkSanctuaryBBS 1 month ago
@DarkSanctuaryBBS I thought I asked you to give me a straight answer! Yes I did deviated from evolution and I also told you I would come back to the issue after you answered me. Because you display such pride and quickly call others ignorant, I pushed you to answer a question you couldnt to help you realise you might not be different from us at all. Anyway, sure, lets get back to evolution.
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac No answer was given, because none is deserved. It doesn't relate to the topic at hand. I have very little interest in big bang theory, therefore have no knowledge of it. If I haven't studied it, I am not qualified to talk about it, fair enough?
DarkSanctuaryBBS 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac I don't know what caused the big bang. But here's the funny bit: you don't know either! Call it God, or Allah, or Zeus, or Wotan, or Osiris, or whatever. It doesn't explain a thing.
doyoublush 1 month ago
@doyoublush Science only studies what God created, they try to understand and give names to their discovery. Whatever you see around you, including you yourself with the unviverse added, God spoke them all into being! But ofcourse, I know you dont want to believe it. The big bang question was not meant for you anyway.
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac God didn't speak me into being. My parents did, and I haven't met anyone with whom that wasn't the case, and neither have you. PERIOD.
doyoublush 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac No one knows, which is why you don't get to use it as proof of God, because that would be an argument from ignorance.
The whole point of atheism is that saying "I don't know" is preferable to picking an answer for the wrong reasons, since picking answers for the wrong reasons inevitably leads to bad answers.
YaleBreaker 1 month ago
@YaleBreaker If I use it as a proof of God, then I am arguing from the knowledge of God which obviously you dont have. What we gain as christian is the insight of mystery which science doesnt have. We fellow science too, therefore we have knowledge in both, unlike you who wait till science discovers something before you can say :' I know' . Secondly, Matt doesnt say 'I dont know', he says ; 'I know there is no God'. Therefore you defination is wrong.
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac OK, what's your knowledge of God, and how do you justify that knowledge? And can you demonstrate that your "insight of mystery", whatever that means, is a more reliable route to knowledge than science? (Hint: you need science to disprove science.)
YaleBreaker 1 month ago
@YaleBreaker My knowledge of God is that He is the creator of everything. Check the God believing people, they are peaceful, positive and polite. They can withstand challenges better because they hope is in God, not too quick to commit suicide.
I dont dissaprove of science, infact, I love science but science is not meant to oppose God. (hint: It takes only a religion to cancel a religion and science is not a religion unless you want to make it as such)
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac "Check the God believing people, they are peaceful, positive and polite." Not all of them. Not even necessarily most of them. And even if they were all saints, this has no bearing on whether or not God is real.
"science is not meant to oppose God" - I agree, though I would add that it's not meant to support him either.
"It takes only a religion to cancel a religion" - what does that even mean, and what makes you think so?
YaleBreaker 1 month ago
@YaleBreaker his statement "it takes only a religion to cancel a religion" is a weak attempt at twisting and throwing your own concept back at you. He is just going to sit here and preach about how good and right his religion is, with no valid or demonstratable proof of the key piece.
1csrichardson 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac "My knowledge of God is that He is the creator of everything. "
Knowledge of something doesn't lend support to it's existance. I have knowlegde of Orcs. What you don't have is proof.
"They can withstand challenges better because they hope is in God"
Thats a bold assertion. Proof?
"science is not meant to oppose God."
Science can't address God or the supernatural in any coherant way.
hawklord2001 1 month ago
@hawklord2001 Why dont you give your knowledge of Orcs to the historians to add onto their collection let they are stucked with the bible. Jesus is the only physical proof of God, the rest is supernatural and you can experience God only through faith, which you dont have, but not through the microscope like you so wish. Concerning challenges in life, check suicide victims and tell me how many are believers. Have fun
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac " Jesus is the only physical proof of God"
Says The Bible.
"and you can experience God only through faith,"
I agree. Essentially you tell yourself its Jesus until you believe it correct?
"If God could be detected by science, then He wouldnt be God but rather something beneath our intelligence."
So instead people have just made stuff up and you believe it. Has he EVER spoken directly to you?
hawklord2001 1 month ago 16
@Kwartisaac: I don't even know how to use a microscope so don't generalize all atheist. I accept phone calls though. As for the suicide stats, all it proves is that you are delusional and bet your entire life on the PROMISE of an afterlife, to get over your "demons". How about you go check the statistics concerning pedophilia and tell me how many were Christian Priests?
llcasanova 3 weeks ago
@Kwartisaac Actually, science operates independently of any deity, as there is no way to detect or measure the supernatural.
Akira625 1 month ago
@Akira625 very right, yet they keep asking for scientific evidence. If God could be detected by science, then He wouldnt be God but rather something beneath our intelligence.
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac You don't have any knowledge of god. If you did, you would be able to demonstrate it to another person and videos like this would not exist. You have a personal belief backed solely by faith. If god existed there would without a doubt be proof. If he DOES exist, the only teachings of his we have is a 2000 year old book full of immoral, cruel, and contradicting statements. Even if he was proven true, I would rather burn in hell than worship such a sadistic being.
1csrichardson 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac "God has a word for every generation"
And howcome then, that God does not in fact has a word for every generetion and that despite that humanity transformed dramatically the past 2000 years, no longer additional holy books appear on the bookshelves of Christianity?
It has a fairly simple answer: because fellow primates of our own species, who are - just like you and me - only half a chromosome away from being chimpansee, canonized Christianity.
doyoublush 1 month ago
@doyoublush Your answer is wrong! There are tongs of books written by people inspired by God. They could be added to the bible but there is no need . See, I 've being trying to tell you but you dont seem to understand, the word of God was before and is after the bible. The word of God is life itself. It cant be contained in a book! God didnt ask anyone to write the bible by the way. Those who wrote the books did posterity a great favor.
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac You are wrong. Those books you are talking about can't be added to the Bible, since it is a holy book that is not to be changed. That would change God's eternal word.
That there is a word of God before and after the Bible? If you say God is life, I could follow your tracks for quite a while, but that would be about it.
I think the Bible has retarded society and only occasionally did a favor to humanity...
doyoublush 1 month ago
@doyoublush try this experiment with the bible then, put it in water or fire, if it burns or gets wet, then you know it is still book as any other . It is the word of God which makes something holy, holy people, holy city, holy bible etc. Jesus Himself is the word of God, John 1. As long as He lives can the word of God still be written or spoken. It didnt end at Revealations!
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac of course my Bible will burn if I put it in fire and of course it will get wet when I throw it in a canal, but I won't do that, because the book costed me 40 euro's. the second part of your message?
"what can be asserted without evidence, can be rejected without evidence"
Christopher Hitchens
doyoublush 1 month ago
@doyoublush Hahahah! you make me laugh at last! Ok, keep your bible as I keep mine. Now that American soldiers even piss on dead corps, I suggest everyone get right with God. There is such darkness and untold wickness in the heart of men, it takes only God to demp it. Concerning Christopher Hitchens phrase, this is absolutely not applicable to God! If you read your bible well, you will get a good idea about who God is. Once you understand, you cant ask for evidence of His existence!
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac The idea that Jesus was born of a virgin is based on a translation error from antiquity. In the Hebrew Bible only the word "almah" is used, which means "young woman". When the Hebrew Bible was translated in Greek - the Septuaginta - a word was used that could also mean "virgin". Since the NT writers wrote in Greek, they used the Septuaginta and therefore in the reverse-engeneering process of Jesus as the Messias he was made born of a virgin. It is applicable to God...
doyoublush 1 month ago
@doyoublush Even in today's generation of the jewish community, 'young woman' still automatically implies 'a virgin'. They are still pure. Unless the hebrew bible stated that this particular 'almah' was already married, you dont have a case. Ofcourse I wouldnt make a mistake to use the exact words in our world where girls of 12yrs are already sexually active and by 25yrs, cant even count how many guys they have slept with. 'Virgin' suits best.
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac About the virgin birth, you are wrong twice. Firstly, because there is a separate word for "virgin" in Hebrew. Secondly, since the prophet Isaiah was not referring to the Messias: "In the Hebrew Bible, Isaiah indicates that a “young woman” will conceive and bear a son, a prediction not of a future Messiah but of an event that was soon to take place in Isaiah’s own day." (Bart Ehrman "Jesus, Interrupted", 2009, p. 74) Good luck!
doyoublush 1 month ago
@doyoublush Like I said earlier, a young unmaried woman in the jewish world even in the present generation still implies, a virgin automatically. I have jewish groups coming to my work twice a week. I know what I am saying. The bible tells further how Joseph was troubled by the situation. How can you doubt that? Concerning the prophecy of Isaiah, dont go there! You already have trouble believing in God, understanding His prophet will be too much to take.
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac I'm an archaeologist and historian. Reading a historical book - the Bible is just one of them - won't be too much to as for. The first part of your message about the Virging-bit; historians like Ehrmann tend to disagree with you.
There is no way of making an analogy between current Jews and the Jews of Jesus' time. That would be ignoring 2000 years of dynamic history in which the meaning attached to words can change.
doyoublush 1 month ago
@doyoublush wow nice job! Anyway, tell me the story of the lifestyle of the religious jews 2000 years ago. The way I see it, unless Mary had a husband before, as long as she was engaged to Joseph and was also a young woman like you put it, the idea that she may not be a virgin is a little bit extreem unless the bible lied big time. My apologies to Ehrmann.
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac If you want to know more about the subject: go to a library. The books of Ehrmann are a good introduction; I read them first, because my specialisation is in North-Western Europe.
Yes, the Bible contains lies, just like every religious book. What is more likely: that Jesus was born of a virgin, or the a Jewish woman told a little lie, because she had been a bit naughty? (David Hume)
doyoublush 1 month ago
@doyoublush Concerning evolution, the only evidence I can think of is that my generation is losing their human values because they've been told their ancestors are animals and so they are acting as such. Marriage doesnt work anymore because animals dont bond! The youth are sleeping around, geting drunk and stone, they carry knives around ready to fight according to the new 3 days ago! Kids dont respect their parents anymore etc on on, just like the beasts!
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac Not only were our ancestors animals, SO ARE WE! By definition, we are animals. From the Oxford dictionary: Animal, a living organism which feeds on organic matter, typically having specialized sense organs and nervous system and able to respond rapidly to stimuli. By the way, there are animals that are completely monogamous. They mate for life. I find your ignorance on every subject astounding. Throw your book of myths in the garbage and read a real book.
DarkSanctuaryBBS 1 month ago
@DarkSanctuaryBBS Go ahead and be an animal then, I will stay a Man. I hope you come across that word in you oxford dictionary too.Concerning animals who are completely monogamous, lets just ask them to teach their human children to practise it as well. I'd like to keep my bible and follow science as well, so that I would have knowledge of both. Thanks for the advise and welcome back.
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac Oxford Dictionary, Man: An adult human male. Your point? Let's continue, what's human mean? It means member of Homo Sapiens. What's Homo Sapiens mean? Let's refer back to our good old friend the dictionary of Oxford: Homo sapiens, the primate species to which modern humans belong. You can stop with your semantic masturbation now, and play on words.
DarkSanctuaryBBS 1 month ago
@DarkSanctuaryBBS check 'animal' in wikipedia under 'etymology', you will get where I am coming from. Are you a biologist?
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac Just did. Perhaps you should read the whole thing, instead of cherry picking for what you want to find. The last line, and take note of the last word: "The biological definition of the word refers to all members of the kingdom Animalia, encompassing creatures as diverse as sponges, jellyfish, insects and humans.[3]". Am I a biologist? I wasn't aware that I needed to be one to understand word definitions.
DarkSanctuaryBBS 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac If that is the only evidence you can think of concerning evolution: go to a library and study the biological side of it.
PS: some animals do bond for life...
doyoublush 1 month ago
@doyoublush I am already learning a lot about evolution on the net. Maybe you can also start to learn more about the nature of God in the bible so that you dont ask for evidence of Him in the future. I must say I enjoy talk with you, because you seem to be one of the few atheisst out there who is still polite.
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac I already have read the Bible. I used to be a Christian. Actually, I really dig Jesus. It's Christian's I generally don't like, because they are so unlike him. Jesus was kind, forgiving, and wise. What I generally get from Christians is hatred, unforgiveness, and credulity. BTW, I hope your are learning evolution from credible sources, not creationist websites. How would you feel if the only thing atheists learned about the Bible was from atheist websites?
DarkSanctuaryBBS 1 month ago
@DarkSanctuaryBBS How was Jesus kind, forgiving and wise? Give examples please. What is it about Jesus that you dig? I am learning evolution from wikipedia. So far, evolution to me is like somebody saying, vehicles start with bicycle, then evolved into a motor byke, into a car and now a plane. Though they all show similar features and have the same concept, yet each is built apart. This is the misconception of one trying to a story he doesnt know b'caus he wasnt there......
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac You mean you don't agree that he was kind, forgiving, and wise? Those are aspects I attribute to him from my readings of the four gospels. Sorry to say, I don't have specific verses memorized. That's a poor understanding of evolution. Comparing mechanical devices to biology is like comparing apples to plastic oranges. Mechanical devices don't self replicate, and replicate with mistakes, the driving force of evolution. watch?v=q76jw0ZB9hA
DarkSanctuaryBBS 1 month ago
@DarkSanctuaryBBS Jesus gave healing to people, He also forgave men of their sins and yes, He was wise. He did these because of His divinity. If you dig Him for that, it indicates you are still a believer. That is a confusing signal to give as an atheist.
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac Aside from the healing (which I doubt took place), you don't have to be divine to do those things. I never said I was an atheist. I prefer rationalist. But if you prefer, agnostic.
DarkSanctuaryBBS 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac I have studied the Bible, and the God of the Bible is man-made. The man-made is written all over it, but it is even worse. The Bible and it's God is not only man-made; it's masculine-made. That proves enough for me, looking at the fact that most Bronze Ages societies were, or used to be essentially androcentristic.
doyoublush 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac Christianity: "one women's lie about an affair, that got seriously out of hand"
doyoublush 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac You should learn how to ask "why-questions". Why would God have made this plan, while it has "man-made" written all over it?
doyoublush 1 month ago
@DarkSanctuaryBBS God has not changed, He has walked with men by seasons, Jesus had to come to usher a new season, and even He had to leave to give way to the Holyspirit, and this is the season we are in now, after this season, the sun turns red. Read Joel 2:28. Isnt it funny how everybody is talking about the end of the world, even not believers! Check the signs and get back to Christ.
Kwartisaac 1 month ago
I love it how the Christian is dodging the question every single time Matt asks him about the slaves...They always do that in general in discussions and it makes me sick to see that people are so brainwashed...
boyka1408 2 months ago 14
@boyka1408 They're not only brainwashed, They -like this caller, are too lazy to even read the passages they call in to defend!
Lennon4ever1 1 month ago
Oh, the Sabbath was on Saturday. Good to know I've spent five years being liable to be stoned to death when I went to school 6 days a week according to biblical law, but at least this guy hasn't, cool.
OneStonedBastard 2 months ago
Will somebody read Exodus 22:16 and show me where he found the word 'rape' ? Or 'forced sex' . I only saw words like; entice and seuduce. When two people are attracted to each other, the chance is very big that one might seduce the other, if they end up in sexual relationship, what is wrong with the fact that one advices them to marry?
Kwartisaac 2 months ago
@Kwartisaac There isn't, because that isn't the passage being discussed. Deuteronomy 22:28-29 28This is what you must do when a man rapes a virgin who isn’t engaged. When the crime is discovered, 29the man who had sexual intercourse with her must give the girl’s father 1¼ pounds of silver, and she will become his wife. Since he raped her, he can never divorce her as long as he lives.[a]
DarkSanctuaryBBS 2 months ago
@TheRacer909 Good!..you carry on believing...after all someone has to make my pizza.
pieter292 2 months ago
@TheRacer909 I don't even think you are for real. Go away.
DarkSanctuaryBBS 2 months ago
Nobody felt sorry for Osama Bin Ladens death's , there was rather jubilation. I guess we can come up with numerous reasons why he deserved it eventhough is was still a human being. However, we fail to understand how a sinner doesnt mean anything to the holy God. In those days, God passed judgement to the nations by the hands of the Israelites. This is why the outside slaves were treated different. God didnt initiate slavery, it was practised accross all Asia and no slave was beaten in the bible.
Kwartisaac 2 months ago
Men were chosen for women for marriage in those days, this was their custom. Wheather they were raped or not, the women didnt get to choose for themselves. Therefore, if one raped a woman, he is forced to marry her even though he might have had another woman in mind. This is in the best interest of the woman. I dont see what is wrong with that! It seems we are taking customs of an old civilization and judging it according to our modern moral standard. This is wrong!
Kwartisaac 2 months ago
@Kwartisaac Then you have revealed yourself to be an immoral person, and we'd be wise to steer a wide course around you.
DarkSanctuaryBBS 2 months ago 12
@DarkSanctuaryBBS am I immoral because I am putting things in their right perspectives? Lions kill and feed on their fellow animals, is this correct or you are suddenly going to understand and say it is their food? If you accept that, why cant you accept that culture, even 50 years ago, husbands were carefully chosen by the parents of the bridge in Africa, and guess what, the couple sticked together for life. Almost zero divorce cases.
Kwartisaac 2 months ago
@Kwartisaac No, you are immoral because you said: "This is in the best interest of the woman. I dont see what is wrong with that!". Any sane and rational person would recognized this, and say that this type of action was always immoral, but the bronze age barbarians and the God they invented didn't know any better.
DarkSanctuaryBBS 2 months ago 8
@DarkSanctuaryBBS suit yourself. I'm done.
Kwartisaac 2 months ago
@Kwartisaac No mate you're immoral cos you're a stupid cunt who believes in fairytales and can't think for himself..go away.
pieter292 2 months ago
@pieter292 you sound very moral and mature! Is this what Atheism has to offer? In my little experience with you people, I havent met a single person who shows respect, you claim to be intelligent but all I hear is rude and arrogance, if we all go by that, the world wouldnt survive a second, this is evil in the hearts of men, check history and you will understand why your fore fathers uphold the Gospel. You need Jesus man! I'm done!
Kwartisaac 2 months ago
@Kwartisaac Thanks for the advice...I did check history about my fore fathers and yes,apart from the 400 yr persecution,torture and murder of non believers in the inquisition,the crusades,the burning of women as witches, the annihilation and subjugation of the native people of the entire continent of South America,the endorsement of slavery and the persecution of homosexuals,apart from these,then yes religion has done nothing wrong...maybe you should try a little more experience with 'us people'
pieter292 2 months ago
@pieter292 maybe it is religion in general sense, that you are against because non of these have got anything to do with Jesus Christ. This is no different from using a weapon to kill a fellow human whiles the intention of the weapon maker was to use to defend yourself against animal attacks.
Kwartisaac 2 months ago
@Kwartisaac Right so you have no problem saying I'm not moral or mature and people are rude and arrogant in the name of their atheism and yet all my examples of behavior in the name of christianity are unfounded?..all those christians weren't real christians even though they openly said they were acting in the name of God?..did they 'need jesus man' as well?..either think properly or don't answer..you've bored me!!!
pieter292 2 months ago
@Kwartisaac so a poor man who lusts after a rich woman can just rape her and then not only gain a hefty dowry, but also a wife? how is this fair? how is this to the woman's best interest?
joe1234567890i 2 months ago
@joe1234567890i Thank you for your question. In that generation, about 3400 years ago, women were treated as properties , rich women? Very rare! According to this custom, victims of rape were deprived of husbands because they lost their virginity. They end up prostitutes or childless, etc. God said he that caused this plight to the poor woman should be made her husband. Women, whether raped or not, didnt choose their husbands themselves.
Kwartisaac 2 months ago
@Kwartisaac Women who are individually rich? very rare indeed. However, women part of rich families? I'd say there's a 50% chance of rich couples producing a female offspring. I think this disparity between current moral standards and those of the past in itself supports the idea that "God" is not just. The fact that the bible is grounded so much in the past discredits its universality.
joe1234567890i 2 months ago
@Kwartisaac "It seems we are taking customs of an old civilization and judging it according to our modern moral standard. This is wrong!"
How is that wrong? If we take the bible to be the work of god and morally absolute, then values and morals described in this book should be timeless and universal, should they not?
Otherwise, what "evidence" do we have that it is in fact divine writing and not the primitive beliefs of a bunch of bronze agers?
AliRadicali 2 months ago
@AliRadicali Thank u for these questions. This is the confusion that results from traditionalizing the bible. Not every word in the bible is from God. We should be able to identify what God said from what the author added onto it. The work of God is both inside and outside the bible, God didnt write nor asked anyone to write the bible, it is rather some good men who thought of posterity and recorded some of the events, however like we all are, they too were subject to faults.
Kwartisaac 2 months ago
@Kwartisaac the moral statutes that God gave are tied to those generations they were given because these statutes were relevant to their behavior. Yes God changes His methods according to certain dispensation of time and that is why Jesus' generation couldnt accept Him because He didnt come the way they expected. In our generation, God is dealing with us according to our moral behavior, why do you bother about slaves and forced marriages? Do we have markets for slaves?
Kwartisaac 2 months ago
@Kwartisaac It is wrong because the woman is treated as property. Being married to your own rapist is not in a woman's best interest. It only makes sense if women are property, virginity is required for a woman to be owned by a man, rape lowers her value and sex is a mark of territorialism.There are still people in American culture who believe that women are property. The attitudes that underlie ancient customs are still in this world. Judging the past may help us move past it.
BraidedLily 2 months ago
@BraidedLily I totally agree with you. Women are not to be treated as properties. God didnt give Eve to Adam as a property. He also ddnt create that practice, men did. You did admit it can only make sense if...... Therefore when I said, it is in the best interest of the women, I am also thinking in this context, placing myself in that generation and imagining what would have become of the victim, deprived of a husband, therefore God judged right.
Kwartisaac 2 months ago
@Kwartisaac
We shouldn't be judging past customs based off of OUR current moral standard, correct ---
Unless there is an infallible book written that the person making this statement ascribes to, then whatever the book says should be correct. The authority of the customs aren't being weighed here, it is the authority of God himself.
And according to his book, he's a total dick.
YetAnotherInfidel 2 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel I am suprised you dont weigh the customs of this generation because if you take God out of the picture, this is what happens to victims of rape;1.they will never get husbands ; 2 they probably end up in prostitution and lose all respect in that soceity and 3; the chance of making children is very slim. God said the man who caused such plight to the victim should marry her. God is the hero!
Kwartisaac 2 months ago
@Kwartisaac
Cool conjecture on what might happen, I can do that too-
1) They are beat daily by the abuser they are bound to,
2) They are spit on and degraded by society anyway, for being raped, and
3) She is constantly birthing children of her rapist.
God is a complete fucker if He allows this, and in your mind he does.
God is a demon, and so are you to agree with this sort of code.
YetAnotherInfidel 2 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel That's what religion does, my friend: fucks up and warps people's moral compass.
DarkSanctuaryBBS 2 months ago
@DarkSanctuaryBBS
I couldn't agree more. I have seen much of this warping in people's simple explanations as to why there is so much commanded killing in the Bible, scowling as people said that eveyone deserved to die in a global flood and that the massacres in all those cities were justified because they were all bad people. They even justify why the babies were slaughtered, saying they were born corrupt.
It sickens me to the core.
YetAnotherInfidel 2 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel I guess their God went to the pharmacy, took some medicine, and got better. He is no longer sick, twisted, and demented. Wait, scratch that. In the New Testament he demands a HUMAN sacrifice. Can't get much more sick and demented than that. What, in the the 21st century, are people doing still believing such tripe? I understand the need to believe in an afterlife for comfort, but why THIS?
DarkSanctuaryBBS 2 months ago
@DarkSanctuaryBBS
Their God lives in their brain, and their brain produces the cure for the flaws they find. A bit of cognitive dissonance seems to cure all the ills their "God" suffers from. They hear the flaws, they see what's wrong with the situation, but they still drudge on compliantly assuming that it is either interpreted wrong or that it is simply right for obscure reasons.
They fail to see the simple things, preferring dogma to any form of logic or sculpted reason.
YetAnotherInfidel 2 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel according to your conjecture; 1: only a rapist beats his wife. Your second is also wrong since the society didnt disrespect a married woman and thirdly, she births children of her husband. Please read Exodus 22:16. It doesnt neccessarily talk about a rapist but rather, sex before marriage.
Kwartisaac 2 months ago
@Kwartisaac
According to my conjecture, a rapist is more likely to beat his wife as he raped her in the first place. Would you let your mother live with a rapist, especially as her husband?
She was raped, therefore they lose status in society as being "pure". That is, put in terms you can understand, bad for her.
Third, she births the children of someone who raped her and is STILL RAPING HER. You idiot!!
He may be her husband, but he is RAPING HER.
Get it into your stupid brain!
YetAnotherInfidel 2 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel
Read this too:
Your God not only comissions this as the moral law for then and forever, but he advises it! He wants it to occur!
If this were going on today, would you be disgusted? I would. But that is what your God wants. So why is it that you disagree??
You pretty much have to, or you risk going against God.
Then again, you don't kill unbelievers or people who work on the Sabboth, so why do anything else in the Bible?
YetAnotherInfidel 2 months ago
@YetAnotherInfidel There we go again! Anothere atheist being disrespectful. You guys talk about being moral, well, dont fool yourself because you cant even tame your tongue. You give opinion on issues you dont fully understand and you think everybody should take your point and when they dont, you start showing your true colors: Rude Rude Rude!!! Well, why am I not suprise! Being polite is too tough, that's why you cant stand religion because it makes you! Dont reply, Im bored!
Kwartisaac 2 months ago
@Kwartisaac
You advocate that it be law for rapists to marry those they raped.
What responce do you expect?
I understand your Bible better than you do, and you should expect anyone with morals to naturally respond negatively to someone who, basically, would like to see rapists/rapee couples forced into society.
I don't like religion because it is false and harmful, something that is quite apparent in you.
On top of it all, you didn't even give any evidence for your God.
Pathetic.
YetAnotherInfidel 2 months ago
@Kwartisaac In other words, you and your lot don't care about morality that will benefit everybody, All you care about is religiously correct speech and religiously correct sex & reproduction.
All other morality is relative for you, i.e., "Thou shalt not kill" unless the diety directs otherwise.
I am correct, no? ;^)
EdM021 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac Can't win an argument? BETTER MAKE SWEEPING GENERALIZATIONS AND INSULT THEM.
Sarteka 1 month ago
@Kwartisaac Is your God not all powerful? Could he not impose a new set of commandments? Though shalt not treat women as property? Is he that weak and insignificant that he has to work AROUND people's immoral behaviour. Certainly such a figure is not worthy of any kind of worship, even if it did exist. It should indeed be scorned for its weakness and ineptness.
DarkSanctuaryBBS 2 months ago
@Kwartisaac None of what you say makes any sense. God man man, and he wrote the law. If the people are poorly made and thus rape each other, and God's law regarding their punishment is both immoral and cruel, then God is an immoral, cruel, dick. You're the worst apologist ever, and you throw away your own morality to defend a clearly immoral God. All you've shown is that atheists are both superior to you morally and also personally responsible for how awesome we are. Thanks :-)
beatonm198 1 month ago
@beatonm198 *made man
beatonm198 1 month ago
"Next!" lol
4aceentertainment 2 months ago
hahaha, the comments and the caller don't want to answer the question with a simple yes or no. They have to say "la la la, wasn't the same back then as it is now" so pathetic that they have to make excuses to justify the shit in their bible.
TheHolyphantom 2 months ago
These ppl have their own doctrinal answers for the purpose of distorting a Devine Order to justify an immoral behavior.
GrandeRio01 2 months ago
@GrandeRio01 Then how about answering the question.
DarkSanctuaryBBS 2 months ago
@DarkSanctuaryBBS - And what question would that be?
GrandeRio01 2 months ago
@GrandeRio01 The one posed in the video: Is it moral to force a rape victim to marry her rapist.
DarkSanctuaryBBS 2 months ago
@DarkSanctuaryBBS - To begin w/ our present attitude towards God is not in the least of the Hebrew then.The Law of Moses were given to Hebrews; There was a stigma w/ consequences for that couple; so if one had that in mind, you'd have to think it over well before commiting the crime. Stoning was to both if she didn't cry out for help (fornication).Stoning the man, would likely leave her single, possibly pregnate & shamed.
GrandeRio01 2 months ago
@GrandeRio01 Are you sure you are not the caller from the show, because you are pulling the same shit he did. It's a yes or no question.
DarkSanctuaryBBS 2 months ago
@DarkSanctuaryBBS - I've given you the reason then, but it goes without saying, ofcourse it's not right. Now what is your point?
GrandeRio01 2 months ago
I love the bible. Rape someone, and you get to marry them. There is this hot young girl who lives next door, I;m going over to her place, gonna break in and rape her... Don;t worry its ok. I'm taking a ring with me when I;m done I will propose. Man! Don't know why i didn;t think of this before! Since i turned 45 i just cant get the 16 year old's to look at me. Now, I am well sorted.
nippi9 2 months ago 2
How about if, instead making a rape victim marry her rapist, the god of the bible said that a woman's worth is not tied to her virginity, that she is not the property of her father or, if she marries, her husband, that women have rights equal to men? How about that? The problem would be solved without further vicimizing women.
YY4Me133 2 months ago 2
Mike is taking the classical route: "oh you gotta look at the whole Bible, and look at the overall picture. Bible teaches love, so of course we don't beat slaves". What a load of crap. This is essentially translating to "i can forget about the passages that make my belief look bad, and just look at the passages i like."
Casshyr 2 months ago
Does anybody know the episode where Matt is talking about the sketchiness of Jesus raising the dead? Matt says something like "..Boy that's awfully strange that no one else recorded that, I mean you have a graveyard full of zombies walking into downtown Jerusalem and nobody says anything?!" If anybody knows what episode this is on please tell me! Been looking for it for MONTHS
xbox360blows 2 months ago
How sad that people believe all this tripe.
WeTheStrange 2 months ago
"Nice" in that context is probably something like oh yeah your super nice if you dont beat them every day
cameljuice20 2 months ago
what about how the jews went against god and stopped believeing in jesus and god said hed punish them for not believing in him becouse those were his own people as far as i know hitler killed 6 million jews muslims hate jews and the kkk hates blacks mexicans and jews jews are the most hated race on the planet is that just a coincidence?
TheGhghghhjhjhj 2 months ago
what time and what number
TheGhghghhjhjhj 2 months ago
@TheGhghghhjhjhj It airs most Sundays from 4:30-5:30 pm Austin Time, and the number is 512-472-2255. Hope you make it on.
DarkSanctuaryBBS 2 months ago
if you don think that this world is so complex there has to be a creator and all of life just came from microscopic bacteria than theres something i dont know about going on inside your head but maybe you should see a doctor
TheGhghghhjhjhj 2 months ago
@TheGhghghhjhjhj Come on now, you're putting me on. I don't believe for a second that your for real. Joke's over. I don't know what you are trying to accomplish by pretending to be a creationist.
DarkSanctuaryBBS 2 months ago
@TheGhghghhjhjhj BTW, if you are for real, what you just used is the irreducible complexity argument. There is rebuttals to this argument as well. I would suggest you stop wasting people's time and do some research on these "arguments" you keep using. NOTHING you have said thus far is anything I haven't heard before. Better yet, call The Atheist Experience this Sunday. I'd LOVE to hear that call!
DarkSanctuaryBBS 2 months ago
@TheGhghghhjhjhj How do you jump from a creator to Adam and Eve.
MyTheDarkKnight 2 months ago
im giving you clear evidence and happeing that happend to me the only thing your doing is saying no your wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong!!! that is easy to do
TheGhghghhjhjhj 2 months ago
@TheGhghghhjhjhj You're not giving evidence. You're giving anecdotal stories. People give these all the time for things like being abducted by aliens, seeing Bigfoot, leprechauns, etc. Am I to believe all that nonsense too, based on nothing else but someones say so? You need to educate yourself and understand what evidence really is, and do research from reputable websites, not creationist ones: garbage in, garbage out.
Dar