I just wonder if Israel had been a poor country, would the Kaifeng Jews be so fervent as to answer the call to return to Israel, I mean after all their ancestors had chosen to settle in ancient China partly because of silk route trade and partly because of persecution of Jews at that time. I wonder if they could actually fit into a predominantly white jewish community in Israel. Humans are known throughout the centuries to migrate for a better life.
@minghan05 But they AREN'T fervent to "return to Israel". At least not the geographic/economic Israel. When China is a rising global power, why would they? No, they will geographically remain in Kaifeng-fu, but they are fervent to "return to Israel" in that they want return to the lost customs and traditions of their ancestors.
The Chinese always welcome friendly and peaceful people like the Jews. The Chinese Muslim Uyghur look more like Chinese. Chinese Uyghur ladies have more freedom to wear dresses like short sleeves, NOT like the ladies in Middle East.
@viewpic1 also mostly Turkish ladies in Turkey in middleeastern do not wear headscarves and Turkish ladies are Turks from the same ethnicity with Uyghurs in China
Why did I suspect Confucius (last name Kohn) was a Jew. He developed Confucianism (儒家 pronounced as Rújiā) or the family of Rú, which is similar to Ju, Juda, or Jew.
What garbage are you talking about? The 家 in 儒家 does not mean family here. It means a school of thought. Don't pretend you know anything and quit trying to put a Jew label on everything.
Nothing against these so-called Chinese Jews from Kaifeng. But the truth is: they're not Jewish descendents. They're just economic immigrants/converts. Not that theres anything wrong with it.
Well, if indeed they were planning on becoming an Israeli, they certainly have been very patient. There are evidence of Jews in China for thousands of years. Even Kohn Fucius (aka Confucius) might have been a Jew, but that was 551 B.C. China was such a melting pot back then, immigrant adopted Chinese name of similar sound. Ma can be a Muslim. Kohn can be a Cohen.
@lwglwglwg Care to provide evidence for your claim? A contemporary letter written in Judeo-Persian shows Jews have been in China since at least the 8th century. There are a few mentions of them in native Chinese records from the Tang, Yuan, and Ming periods and the Jesuit Matteo Ricci attested to their existence in 1605. A steady stream of westerners visited the community between the 17th-20th century. Universities across the world house their religious documents and stone inscriptions.
"The Kaifeng Jew Hoax: Constructing the 'Chinese Jews'", in eds. Ivan Davidson Kalmar & Derek Penslar, Orientalism and The Jews, pp. 68-80. Brandeis University Press (USA), 2004 (ISBN 1-58465-411-2) by Dr. Xun Zhou
@lwglwglwg He or she is the ONLY scholar who doesn't believe they were Jewish. The paper tends to view the subject from the European angle and completely neglects all of the evidence found in China. The Jews did have Torah scrolls. Michael Pollak has written a book on the subject called “The Torah Scrolls of the Chinese Jews”. I have seen their prayer books up close. The “Memorial Book of the Dead” is written in Hebrew and Chinese. Your opinion should not be influenced by reading a single paper.
You don't get the point. The fact of the matter is: there may have been some Jewish traders who settled in Kaifeng area in ancient times, but they had completely assimilated with the locals and their cultural and religious identities had long disappeared. The current so-called Chinese Jews are nothing more than willing converts aiming to emigrate out of the country for a better economic future.
@lwglwglwg I totally get it. See "Memories of Kaifeng's Jewish Descendants Today: Historical Significance in Light of Observations by Westerners since 1605" by Wendy R. Abraham. She shows that even as late as 1985 (the year of her visit), descendants of the Kaifeng Jews were well aware of their Jewishness.
The Community has been begging for help for 150 years. It is only now that wealthy western Jews are willing to help them reconnect with the religion of their ancestors.
Compared to Chinese Muslims, Chinese Jews' religious and cultural identity is almost non-existent. And if Israel was a poor country, no Chinese "Jews" would ever go there to find their "ancestral" heritage.
@lwglwglwg The Jewish religion ceased to exist in Kaifeng around the mid-19th century, but they continued to observe the kashrut, sprinkle blood on the door step, eat unleavened bread, etc. during holidays. A person doesn't have to be a temple going Jew in order to be considered "Jewish."
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that hundreds of these descendants have immigrated to Israel. In reality, there has only been a few people. This doesn't denote some need for economic gain.
Of course only a few lucky ones are able get sponsorship/approval to go to Israel. Again, if Israel is a poor country, none of them would even bother to go through the whole conversion/immersion process. The modern day Chinese Muslims are as genuine as Muslims in the Mid-east while the modern day Chinese Jews are pretty much a hoax. Just accept the simple truth and quit fantasizing your 'siblings' in China.
LOL I smell a Jew here. Your fellow tribesmen are always like this: when caught red-handed or confronted with facts, you change subject, divert the attention and try to attack the other party. Nice try, Jew!
@lwglwglwg I am not Jewish, but I take the implication as a compliment. Despite being an atheist, I have respect for all the world's religions. The truth is I have countered each of your uninformed arguments with facts from numerous scholarly books and papers. But, being a simple troll, you ignore it just for the sake of argument.
When on the internet, I go by the motto: "Ignore a flame, starve a troll." So any further comments you leave will be ignored. Have a pleasant day.
@lwglwglwg Your argument sounds reasonable. Normally when a minority race moved into a country, they assimilate into the culture of that country. And as one can see, the Chinese Jews look more "Chinese" that they are the original Jewish traders who settled there. Because I suppose successive generations of the first generation Jewish through the centuries married to the majority Han ethnic. Even modern day chinese I'd say very few can be truly considered pure Han due to ethnic intermingling.
I can't hear what they're saying...
BBarNavi 4 months ago
There seems to be some confusion, people curious about the origins of the Jews should read about the diaspora.
TheSocratesofAthens 7 months ago
I just wonder if Israel had been a poor country, would the Kaifeng Jews be so fervent as to answer the call to return to Israel, I mean after all their ancestors had chosen to settle in ancient China partly because of silk route trade and partly because of persecution of Jews at that time. I wonder if they could actually fit into a predominantly white jewish community in Israel. Humans are known throughout the centuries to migrate for a better life.
minghan05 1 year ago
@minghan05 But they AREN'T fervent to "return to Israel". At least not the geographic/economic Israel. When China is a rising global power, why would they? No, they will geographically remain in Kaifeng-fu, but they are fervent to "return to Israel" in that they want return to the lost customs and traditions of their ancestors.
BBarNavi 4 months ago
The Chinese always welcome friendly and peaceful people like the Jews. The Chinese Muslim Uyghur look more like Chinese. Chinese Uyghur ladies have more freedom to wear dresses like short sleeves, NOT like the ladies in Middle East.
viewpic1 1 year ago
@viewpic1 also mostly Turkish ladies in Turkey in middleeastern do not wear headscarves and Turkish ladies are Turks from the same ethnicity with Uyghurs in China
Igotangry 1 year ago
Why did I suspect Confucius (last name Kohn) was a Jew. He developed Confucianism (儒家 pronounced as Rújiā) or the family of Rú, which is similar to Ju, Juda, or Jew.
lustcorp 2 years ago
@lustcorp
What garbage are you talking about? The 家 in 儒家 does not mean family here. It means a school of thought. Don't pretend you know anything and quit trying to put a Jew label on everything.
lwglwglwg 2 years ago 2
One question. Are the Chinese Jews circumcised?
lustcorp 2 years ago
The ladies probably aren't.
abuzinnar 2 years ago
LOL
Nothing against these so-called Chinese Jews from Kaifeng. But the truth is: they're not Jewish descendents. They're just economic immigrants/converts. Not that theres anything wrong with it.
lwglwglwg 2 years ago
Well, if indeed they were planning on becoming an Israeli, they certainly have been very patient. There are evidence of Jews in China for thousands of years. Even Kohn Fucius (aka Confucius) might have been a Jew, but that was 551 B.C. China was such a melting pot back then, immigrant adopted Chinese name of similar sound. Ma can be a Muslim. Kohn can be a Cohen.
lustcorp 2 years ago
@lustcorp
What evidence? Confucius was a Jew? What have you been smoking?
lwglwglwg 2 years ago 5
Comment removed
ghostexorcist 1 year ago
@lwglwglwg Care to provide evidence for your claim? A contemporary letter written in Judeo-Persian shows Jews have been in China since at least the 8th century. There are a few mentions of them in native Chinese records from the Tang, Yuan, and Ming periods and the Jesuit Matteo Ricci attested to their existence in 1605. A steady stream of westerners visited the community between the 17th-20th century. Universities across the world house their religious documents and stone inscriptions.
ghostexorcist 1 year ago
@ghostexorcist
"The Kaifeng Jew Hoax: Constructing the 'Chinese Jews'", in eds. Ivan Davidson Kalmar & Derek Penslar, Orientalism and The Jews, pp. 68-80. Brandeis University Press (USA), 2004 (ISBN 1-58465-411-2) by Dr. Xun Zhou
lwglwglwg 1 year ago
@lwglwglwg He or she is the ONLY scholar who doesn't believe they were Jewish. The paper tends to view the subject from the European angle and completely neglects all of the evidence found in China. The Jews did have Torah scrolls. Michael Pollak has written a book on the subject called “The Torah Scrolls of the Chinese Jews”. I have seen their prayer books up close. The “Memorial Book of the Dead” is written in Hebrew and Chinese. Your opinion should not be influenced by reading a single paper.
ghostexorcist 1 year ago
@ghostexorcist
You don't get the point. The fact of the matter is: there may have been some Jewish traders who settled in Kaifeng area in ancient times, but they had completely assimilated with the locals and their cultural and religious identities had long disappeared. The current so-called Chinese Jews are nothing more than willing converts aiming to emigrate out of the country for a better economic future.
lwglwglwg 1 year ago
@lwglwglwg I totally get it. See "Memories of Kaifeng's Jewish Descendants Today: Historical Significance in Light of Observations by Westerners since 1605" by Wendy R. Abraham. She shows that even as late as 1985 (the year of her visit), descendants of the Kaifeng Jews were well aware of their Jewishness.
The Community has been begging for help for 150 years. It is only now that wealthy western Jews are willing to help them reconnect with the religion of their ancestors.
ghostexorcist 1 year ago
@ghostexorcist
Compared to Chinese Muslims, Chinese Jews' religious and cultural identity is almost non-existent. And if Israel was a poor country, no Chinese "Jews" would ever go there to find their "ancestral" heritage.
lwglwglwg 1 year ago
@lwglwglwg The Jewish religion ceased to exist in Kaifeng around the mid-19th century, but they continued to observe the kashrut, sprinkle blood on the door step, eat unleavened bread, etc. during holidays. A person doesn't have to be a temple going Jew in order to be considered "Jewish."
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that hundreds of these descendants have immigrated to Israel. In reality, there has only been a few people. This doesn't denote some need for economic gain.
ghostexorcist 1 year ago
@ghostexorcist
LOL
Of course only a few lucky ones are able get sponsorship/approval to go to Israel. Again, if Israel is a poor country, none of them would even bother to go through the whole conversion/immersion process. The modern day Chinese Muslims are as genuine as Muslims in the Mid-east while the modern day Chinese Jews are pretty much a hoax. Just accept the simple truth and quit fantasizing your 'siblings' in China.
lwglwglwg 1 year ago
@lwglwglwg Now you are starting to show your true colors. I smell a troll.
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I am not Chinese or Jewish. In fact, I'm an atheist. The Chinese-Jews are simply an academic interest of mine.
I can see this discussion is only going to go down hill from here, so I think I will end it before it hits rock bottom. Have a pleasant day.
ghostexorcist 1 year ago
@ghostexorcist
LOL I smell a Jew here. Your fellow tribesmen are always like this: when caught red-handed or confronted with facts, you change subject, divert the attention and try to attack the other party. Nice try, Jew!
lwglwglwg 1 year ago
@lwglwglwg I am not Jewish, but I take the implication as a compliment. Despite being an atheist, I have respect for all the world's religions. The truth is I have countered each of your uninformed arguments with facts from numerous scholarly books and papers. But, being a simple troll, you ignore it just for the sake of argument.
When on the internet, I go by the motto: "Ignore a flame, starve a troll." So any further comments you leave will be ignored. Have a pleasant day.
ghostexorcist 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ghostexorcist
LOL Go fuck yourself, Jewish troll!
lwglwglwg 1 year ago
@lwglwglwg Your argument sounds reasonable. Normally when a minority race moved into a country, they assimilate into the culture of that country. And as one can see, the Chinese Jews look more "Chinese" that they are the original Jewish traders who settled there. Because I suppose successive generations of the first generation Jewish through the centuries married to the majority Han ethnic. Even modern day chinese I'd say very few can be truly considered pure Han due to ethnic intermingling.
minghan05 1 year ago
@lwglwglwg 真得要死. 這些真正猶太後代(連家譜都有了!)是我的學生, 他們想學他們祖先的流傳宗教, 跟移民沒什麼屁事. 有些外國人像Shavei的Freund先生要他們離開中國移民到以色列, 可是大部分的開封猶太後代堅持留在開封建設傳統的社區, 你對這個有什麼反對呢?
不理清清楚楚的證據隨便你.
BBarNavi 4 months ago
Wonderful that you are sharing!
jmferrari1 2 years ago
Amacing what you are doing..G-d be with you and your works, Shalom from Sefarad
haimserfati 2 years ago 4