0:44 Lions are a great example of this. If a lion gets the oppurtunity, it will kill a leopard or cheetah to eliminate the competition for food. Lions have been found to kill these cats and not even eat them because they weren't killing them out of hunger.
Speciesism is in a nutshell, the argument that we as humans, make a preference for our own species, for no other reason than that it is the same species we belong to. @ThatGuyFromAustria, if you are defending this 'speciesist' position, then why is there any need (as seen in your other videos) to assess the mental capabilities of other animals at all? If it is defensible to grant rights on merely this quality of 'sameness', then why even consider other qualities, such as self-consciousness.
@sarahdatblygu, conscious or not is in fact irrelevant for humans to have human rights, this is a point brought up by animal rights philosophy, not by humanism.
I love the video. Good stuff although i do have to say most anthropologist have come to the conclusion that Neanderthals were not a separate species. However this doesnt debunk any of your evidence because there is no evidence that we treated them any different from ourselves in different tribes. Also we wouldn't treat them as none humans because they would look pretty much the same and we couldn't tell if they were not homo sapien sapien
Hi. I'm a vegan if you want to decide beforehand if I'm writing craps or not. I respect that people don't agree with my opinions or think vegan ethic is wrong. I would appreciate in fact if you presented arguments we could discuss on and maybe we both would correct or re-postulate our opinions. But when you resort to insulting ("You fucking idiots"), you are presenting nothing else than your complexes. I would say something frustrates you a lot; if only you could fix it up :)
@lesteer, question: If somebody says, “1+1=2, my friend”, or, “1+1=2, stupid!”, what does this make 1+1? If you are looking for arguments (besides that the video itself contains them), you may watch videos from the respective playlist of my channel.
@ThatGuyFromAustria: your ethics are complete crap. You state that "everything you are able to do you're actually allowed to do." A person may be able to do torture a baby for fun, but that does not make it ethical. One might burn a cat alive for entertainment as people did in the Middle Ages, but that does not make it okay.
@seflersinsburg10: It is always amusing how people who are not able to understand the English language call me stupid: I talked about LAWS OF NATURE, man!
@ThatGuyFromAustria well hopefully u r not going to insult me as I'm more interested in comprehending ur points.ref. to the term "vegan propaganda": dont u think that the meat industry also fools us quite frequently?when u talk about female spiders eating their males u correctly subsume this phenomenon under "laws of nature", but what has to do with the human exploitation of animals? we r not dependent on exploiting them as is a spider which does it to ensure its survival.
@ThatGuyFromAustria secondly: so according to ur "laws of nature"-mantra makes u think that humans are morally entitled to treat animals as they live it? just because animals cant defend themselves as they are weaker?! what about a mentally disabled guy who is heavily dependent on other people's help and care. without ethics he would go down the drain, wouldnt he?! i might be mixing up few things here, but i'm pretty sure that ur line of arguments falls short
@wasti82, erm, you may check my video about the fundamental fallacy of the animal rights idea, or my video about Tom Regan. The animal rights idea in itself is inherently flawed.
@wasti82 We are entitled to eat a cow just as any other omnivorous or carnivorous animal would be. A lot of animals can totally defend themselves. Even deer and cows and what not can fuck up an unarmed human. Have you ever seen a raccoon in person? They will try to attack you, and they are not helpless in doing so. Morals and ethics are entirely a human concept that does not apply to animals. There is just no animal in existence that can even compare to our intelligence.
Though Richard Ryder's arguments are factually inaccurate, they are logically sound. Philosophers often use hypothetical cases to illustrate moral truths. Invoking the possibility of extra-terrestrials to attack speciesism is completely sensible. If you want a more concrete example, try AI. Eventually humans will design and build non-human robots who will be at least as intelligent as ourselves. We would call them our equals, would we not?
When I look up Speciesist in the Encyclopedia there's a picture of your Icon! Amazing! You are completely deluded. I cannot believe the torrential flood of Faulty logic and filth that pours from your mouth. Really, if you cannot do better perhaps you should get off the internet now. Visit your local factory farm to see first hand speciesism. You try to use childish logic to justify your childish lust to chew on bloody flesh. Perhaps a few years in a battery cage would change your perspective.
There are simple ethical reasons why we shouldn't eat animals.
1) Producing 1kg meat requires up to 20kg grain food. However, meat has no better nutritional value. Meat production is a huge waste of ressources and contributes to world hunger.
2) Dung severly poisons groundwater, cow farts contribute to global warming
3) Quite a few studies indicate that meat consumers die earlier than vegetarians or vegans
4) Sentient animals suffer from factory farming. We deliberatly inflict pain.
Ah my friend, why do we always have to show them how they are also to blame for the fact 80% of the world population lives with less the 10$ a day. But it' all the fault of meat, bunch of hypocrites. See you, Ivan.
I did not say world poverty is the fault of meat. I think it is the idology of decadence and exploitation.
All the grains you named are edible for us and are also used in food production. There are also corn and soy fed in large amounts.
I did't argue for veganism, though you are right- it's an ethical choice which comes with a lot of disadvantages and inconviniences in our society. Therefore, in my opinion, the ideal middle way is vegetarianism.
They are edible but are only used in a very smal amount for human consumption.Animals eat soymeal,that is a byproduct of making soyoil wich is mainly used for humans.Soymeal is not for human consumption.If you say to vegans that vegetarism is the ideal middle way I don't think they will agree. at all.Most vegans don't have to much symphaty for vegetariasm as they feel they didn't go all the way.
I think of modern fanatic terrorists, like the islamists in the middle east who kill innocent people in order to establish an islamic theocracy where apostasy is punished with death - very unlike to freedom fighters who fight against a terror regime like the theocracy the islamists want to establish.
That is your idea, what do you think our brave europeans cristians have done for centuries around the world?How many people have died because of them?How many people enslaved based on the theory of inferiour races?Simply because they didn't have the same religion?
You see, I'm not a militant vegan and I too can't really stand constant moralizing while many of their arguments are logically and ethically invalid. Though, I'm still for animal rights and against speciesism.
I certainly don't think animaly husbandry is a bad thing in itself - when it is carried out humanely. But this is not today's norm, especially not in factory farms - which are by no means natural in any way. The only interest of factory farmers is profit, not animal wellfare.
We can agree that there is no need to eat 3x meat a day,use more natural means to produce what we eat.But humans are already living for almost 60% in urban areas.Those people can no longer feed themselves and that is why industrialisation will continue to grow.Every aspect from agriculture is to make money,it is a very big industry.The world is not black and white,only extremists think it is.
I think you will agree that the most important problem of our time is overpopulation not eating habits. In my opinion, the poorer nations really fail to control their population growth.
I'm an atheist and i critisize all monotheistic religions, and not only but also because they promote an anthropocentric worldview which excludes all non-human life from any rights - though apes and wales are more intelligent than some humans. Religious intolerance is also a huge problem today.
The movement people should talk about in the Islam religion are called "Salafists" and they are not the majority in the Islam movement.On the cristian side you also find those kind of movements.Religious intolerance has always been a problem.But now it's used by certain political movements with the very strong help of the media to justify ideas who are basicly economical related,not religious related.Enfin that is my idea about things.
I don't agree with factory farming and you have to understand that the methods of feeding a free range animal is far different than feeding a factory farmed animal. The poisinous ground water is also a result of factory farming. The only one of those points that I would like to adress is what "studies" are you refering to and what country were they done in? Diet is only half the issue when it comes to life expectancy and the people that live longest are not vegetarians or vegans.
Yes, free range farming is much different and ethically justifiable - still, globally, only a tiny amount of meat is produced that way and it couldn't be different - there is not enough grazing land. The studies I was talking about were conducted in the US and Europe. If you search for "Vegetarianism" on wikipedia, you'll find a few of them listed. According to these studies Vegetarians and casual fish eaters live longest, while red meat and pork eaters die first.
It's not that it couldn't be that way all it means that people would have to eat less and living in America I don't see that as a bad thing. As for the Wiki study it does not state what u claimed it did. It said mortality rates for fish eaters was 82yrs and for vegetarians and occasional meat eaters was 84. Regular meat eaters and vegans had the highest mortality rate and die earlier. They also attributed higher life expectancy in vegetarians due to negelecting habbits like smoking and not diet.
Also if you read the study thuroughly it states there is a lot of inconclusive data and that a low-meat high-plant diet may be the true causal factor in longer life expectancy and not abstaining from meat entirely. The one study they did mention where vege's seemed better off than omnivores was a study conducted with 38 people and has no mention of their life habbits which also makes it inconclusive because it's ignoring key factors. I'm taking this all from the study you gave me.
Fair enough I think those that are able to do it correctly should. I tried to do it for a year but it didn't work out for me, it could have been because I started too old or I just couldn't adapt. But I lot a lot of weight and was unhealthy. I know many people that are vegetarian and are very healthy. That just leads me to conclude that different people have different requirements. Good luck over there in the UK :-)
2)Tell me how you are going to grow your vegetables on a natural way for 6,5 billion people without animal manure?
3)Wrong,the are 10 medical reasons why you can get colon cancer,only one is related to masif red meat eating,not white meat or fish.There are 13 medical reasons to get a heart diseaese,not one is directly related to meat only to bad personel hygiene like obesity.A balanced omnivore diet doesn't kill you,why are there so many 80/90/100 year old omnivores if meat was that bad?
2) I'm not decisively against livestock breeding - I'm just against cruelty against and exploitation of animals. There are also anorganic fertilizers of which could be produced more
3) Still, most studies indicated that vegetarians statistically live longer than omnivores. Which doesn't mean omnivores can't live long. Of course there are many very old omnivores as by far most of western population lives on such a diet. I still dare say that there'd be even more if everyone eat healthy.
1) Only cattle consumes pasture no other livestock animals. In huge factory farms no pature or farm residues are ever fed. Where did you get your numbers from?
Yes I want to pay the real price for goods and food. Everything else means profiting from the misery, poverty and exploitation of others. That's not ethical, that's a facist and racist point of view. Western people are not better than people in developing countries. We gained everything by war, occupation and propaganda.
3)"Our findings did come as something of a surprise. At the simplest level if meat causes colorectal cancer you would expect to see lower rates in the
vegetarians, and we didn't," says Professor Tim Key, the epidemiologist
who led the Oxford study.
2)You know of a anorganic fertilizer close to where there needed,in quantity to feed 6,5 billion humans and renewable?
3) Diseases, antibiotics, horomones, preservatives, feces, overweight, diabetes, to name only a few disguisting things about meat. However, I'm not saying eating meat is unhealthy in all cases, only that that you can omit all these terrible things while having a good conscience about your fellow beings as a vegetarian. Also, nutritionists widely agree, that humans don't need meat to live healthy. It's just a cultural norm and very addictive, that's all.
4°Why is it more moral to take the life of a plant then the one of an animal?Because you think plants are sentient? Isn't the taking of life imoral itself? How can justify something like "good" or "bad" when you are taking a live?
4) Plants have no conscience, not even a potential one. They do not think, they have no feelings, they never suffer. Animals do. Many animals even feel what others feel, dogs and cows for instance. Killing a plant in most cases is morally equivalent to destroying a stone.
It is good not to inflict pain to sentinent beings. It is bad to inflict pain. The best solution is always the one with the most benefit for all and the least suffering.
4)It is not about pain it's about if it is moral to kill something even if you believe it doesn't feel pain.If I would give a painkiller to a human and kill him would it make it more moral?No because it is the killing itself wich is not moral.You cannot hide behind the argument of "good" and "bad" killing.Killing is killing and no moral justification will ever take that simple fact away.
4) You missed the point. (Potential) Conscience is what matters. Conscience is also prerequisite for sentience. And there are cases in which it es even moral to kill conscious and sentinent beings like in self-defence or to kill a tyrant like Hitler. I also woudn`t object to kill an animal for food if I died otherwise. But in our affluent society we are killig animals just for the sake of tasting their meat. That's a base motive for killing, and neither necessity nor heroism
"just the sake of tasting there meat"when you eat vegetables you eat them because they taste bad?Vegans always talk about how plants can feel pain because they don't have a brain or nervous system.Plants don't have a heart neither,so how do they live?Vegans always say"why should plants feel pain as there is no evolutional reason for it.What is the evolutional reason for human conscience?Consience isn't an organ and is a scientific enigma,so why wouldn't plants feel pain if human consience exists
People tend to forget that history is always written by the winners.Hitler was democratily elected by a large part of the german populatiion.He was also quite popular in the world before the war because of his economical succeses in Germany.There is not "one truth",all depends on your own views on a particular subject.And no I am not a fan.Killing to defend yourselve or to eat can be nescesary but that doesn't make it moral at all.
Perhaps there is "one truth" but individuals like you and me won't be able to find it because we have our subjective viewpoint as you say. I'm therefore always trying to rid my mind of any bias before I discuss any issue.
If you clearly define, what killing is legal or "good", there are no loopholes for extremists. If we don't kill terrorists first, they kill us. And Hitler promoted a bogus ideology which caused millions of deaths. How can you apply these justifications to me?
If you promote the idea that it is good to kill "a" but not "b" or "c", eventually somebody will say why not kill "b" or even "c"?If you enforce the moral point of view that killing "a" "b" or "c" is wrong nobody will ever be capable of using your first argument.See how dangerous letting any hole in morality is?Sadly that is the idea you promote even if it only applies for plants and animals in your mind.
Yes, I promote the idea that killing is ok in some cases - but only in self-defence or for tyrannicide. That's a clear set of rules. Hypothetically spoken, if you try to kill me or if you become the next Hitler I will kill you and I will not be punished by any just legal system. There is no hole in my morality, you see. Likewise, I think it's wrong to kill totally innocent sentinent beings like babies or fellow mammals. Still, I would kill a zombie babie or a mad cow if I had to.
You promote the idea that it's good to take the life of "a" but not "b" or "c". Pretty soon somebody will say why not also apply that moral to "b" or even "c". If you apply the zero tolerance by saying that to take lives from "a""b" or "c" is wrong, no one can ever use that moral excuse to justify anything.He can and will do it, but not under the protection of human morality.You apply that principle to plants and animals,why could nobody use that same argument for humans?
You also see in your comment how dangerous this "good killing" is in the real world.You open a very dangerous door that can be used by any extremist to justify anything he does.You already justified the killing of another sentient human called hitler.Somebody could justify killing you because it would be a 'good kill".That's how wars are justified because you kill the bad guy regarding his political,religious or racial features.Does it make it more moral because it is a "good kill"?
1)My data comes from the IFAD or the FAO regarding pastures and "integrated crop-livestock farming".
You think you can decide such a thing? don't be naive, our complete economic system works on that principle and it always have worked like that.Remember the slaves?These days we don't chain them with iron but with economy and money.
1) Search "How much grain is fed to livestock" on google and look into the first result from the world ressource institute. Statistics show that over the last 20 years 35-40% of the worlds grain production was fed to livestock.
Why shouldn't I critisize immoral traditions? What's wrong with that? That it has "always been like that" is no reason to continue with it for ever. Humans have also always killing each other. Does this mean we don't need to do anything about it?
Grain is very large family,animals are fed with triticale grain,barley and oats.These kind of grain are almost not used for human consumption.
Vegan isn't a natural choise your body would chose,veganism is an ethical choice.You must constantly monitor your health to be vegan or you will pay it.You can also only live on meat as the Inuits have done for centuries.I like to think the middle way is the best,not extremes.
4)Plants also feel what other plants feel,plants warn each other when attacked.When plants are attacked by some insects they produce chemical products to atract other insects who can defend them.You think animals have a conscience?You know what is the difference between humans and any other liveform on this planet?Only humans ask themselves the"why"and the"how"of our being on this planet.If you think that your"I am wonderfull because I am a good killer"is moral,so be it for you,but not for me.
4) Plants have no brains and no CNS. They cannot think or feel anything They can, however, react to neural stimuli.
Yes, we differ from animals because we can cogitate about what's ethical behaviour while animals are driven only by instinct - just like human toddlers. In contrast to the lion we can make the ethical decision not to kill the cow that feels pain perhaps the way a baby does. Or would you argue babies don't feel pain because they don't ask "why"?
1)Vegan propaganda, again. 50% of the meat and 90% of the world production are made in farms who work under the "integrated crop-livestock farming" system.Animals are fed on pastures and with farm residues.There manure is used on fields to feed humans and animals.A total natural system.sources ifad and fao.
Meat and world hunger,a classic.Let's talk basic world economy here. Do you want to continue to pay your goods and food the price you pay them now? Imagine that all the countries in the world would have the same economic power and handle the same salaries. Do you really want to pay the real price for your food and your goods? You as a vegan are also part of this system as you are a world consumer.
6. You don't get it. You say "We'd blow them out of the sky" wtf this is speciesist in itself. you are assuming that we would be superior race to the aliens. suppose they are smarter, stronger, better technology - does this give them the right to eat us?
7. Ryder uses these alien examples as hypothetical LOGICAL examples
8. I conclude, your views on the world are based on:
6. You weren't paying attention, it seems. He was saying that animals don't willfully allow other creatures to consume them. You have the right to eat what ever you want, which he even said. You have the right to do anything you CAN do, but that doesn't mean that someone, or something (i.e. law enforcement), won't object. If you try to kill and eat elephant, it's going to fight back. If aliens came to eat humans, humans would fight back.
@1000g2g3g4g800999 yes, but suppose for 1 second that we can't. they are much smarter than us, they have better weapons, more advanced etc. it's the same situation. they eat us because they see us as an inferior species. but we would think this is wrong because for once we are on the other side of the fence.
Anything you're able to do you're allowed to do? You're an idiot! That means if someone is able to kill or torture you they are allowed to kill or torture you. According to your reasoning rape, murder, incest, beatings, poisonings, intentional dumping of poisons into drinking water should all be allowed because it can be done. I'm so glad you only torture us with your videos. And since I'm able to click close I'm going to so now, and I invite all other viewers of your videos to do the same.
Oh my... You did not understand that thing with "laws of nature", did you? Human ethics is not applicable to nature, the laws of nature are not applicable to human society. Because in the first case, the whole world be criminal as a whole, in the second case mankind simply would disintegrate. And this is exactly the reason why that bullshit of "speciesism" makes no sense. And for the future, if you don't understand something, why don't you just stfu?
I understand that you are an idiot! It's intensely obvious. btw a gentleman only swears in bed. Among other things you say that the laws of nature are a universal law and that we are on the same moral continuum as animals. If this stuff is too difficult for you you shouldn't post videos on it. The distinction between the ethics that humans apply to other humans and the ethics that humans apply to other animals is speciesism. Maybe you should disable comments. So we don't prove you wrong! :-)
Even you said that "Human ethics is not applicable to nature, the laws of nature are not applicable to human society" We should not expect human ethics from animals, likewise we should not apply animal ethics toward animals because then we would be like them, and supposedly humans are more advanced than animals. Animals are animals but humans are supposed to be civilized. Two wrongs don't make a right. I guess it's you who doesn't get it isn't it? Do you recall thou shalt not kill?
Jfyi, humans kill animals for themselves their own kind to survive and to prosper, the very same reason all living beings destroy other life, including plants and bacteria. This is also the reason for human ethics, they are to guarantee the best chances of survival and prosperity for our species. This is also the reason for civilization and everything else around here, including your computer. Go it now??? Stupid kid!
LOL you could call me daddy! ;-) you might be right about my computer though, it helps me to confront idiots like you and I'm sure that's good for our species! There is a debt to be paid for eating anything of course our bodies kill invaders, but again this does not justify the torment we inflict on billions of farm animals to consume excess amounts of their flesh. Especially with the aid of our computers we have found proven healthy & safe alternatives.
Hm, that's a logical fallacy, because only because we can do somthing, it doesn't imply that we have to. And of course farming is justifyable, living beings consume other living beings to survive and to prosper, so what exactly is your problem? And yes, I also believe that our "confrontation" is good for mankind, because you perfectly display an irrational desire for supremacy, which is very telling to anyone who reads the comments here.
Additionally I'd like to point out that healthy animals only kill other animals for food, most don't kill their own species (except for some primates). Animals do not kill for sport or trophies. Once an animal is fed it stops killing until it needs more food. Animals in nature do not keep other animals prisoners so that they can kill them at their convenience. In many ways animals treat each other with a higher ethical standard than with which they are treated by humankind. I respect them more.
Cats and orcas kill other animals for fun (they love to play), ants keep lice as slaves, if a wild boar gets angry he will kill anything in sight, and literally ALL animal species kill their own kind for matters of mating rights or territory, and what you call killing for trophies is sthg to impress potential mates/rivals and thus, very natural. We ARE animals, live with it, or bugger of, you stupid kid, and go pester someone else.
you're saying that since there are some instances of animals killing each other for reasons other than food, that we as human beings should not raise ourselves above the pit of bloody burnt animals? That there is no way humans could ever evolve socially, morally, intellectually into creatures who deserve being considered good stewards of the earth? I guess you've classified yourself pretty well, nice to have you be honest about your lust for burnt flesh instead of belittling your superiors.
Ah... that! I know people who claim that (human) evolution is supposed to have a goal, we had them in power right here in Austria, but fortunately, they were defeated in 1945... Do you really think that you can serve nature by discarding its very laws? And why this supremacism? Why do you want to "raise above" other species? If this is not speciesism at its purest, then what else is it?
So then why should we not kill other animals? Pigs are animals, humans are animals - what's the problem? Or do you chose that only by an arbitrary distinction by species one animal is allowed to do something that another is not...?
Forgive me for repating myself, apparently you forgot what I said above...
Proposition:
Perhaps its time for humans to start holding themselves to a higher ethical standard than that which animals use.
and ...
Moral, social, spiritual, ethical, humane, intellectual, & biological evolution into the higher state that humans are capable of achieving once they move beyond their petty sensory additions. ie Primitive savage lust of dead burnt bloody animal body parts in their mouths. got it son?
I have to go now, but don't worry I'll be back to talk with you later. Because I know how much you'd miss me otherwise. ;-)
I was wondering if you'd be kind enough to visit my page and watch the play list called "Earthlings"
It shows how humans are treating all animals, it might give you a broader perspective, then again it might cement your opinions, at any rate I'd like to have your opinion on it.
Thank you for your kindness. Talk with you later my friend.... ;-)
@ContaMuir17a: I've seen Earthlings. A lot of plant eater propoganda if you ask me. It works for you because you accept it more or less. Not so much for me when I see obvious lies.
Thank you for asking. The best way for you to get your answer is to click on my nick name. That will take you to my channel page. Watch the play lists; "Earthlings" and "Factory Farm Cruelty" and you will have your answer.
@ContaMuir17a: We do. This is why raping, killing, and eating of members of our own species are not allowed. We can do without these things and lessen the suffering of our species. However, their is evidence that not eating meat harms humans and not everyone can do it even if we tried. The idea that we should change simple because some people are bothered by it, makes as much sense as not having your personal religion because someone might find it morally wrong.
@BLHProductions That is completely wrong. It's your opinion, not science. There are no nutrients in meat that cannot be obtained from vegetable sources. There are health benefits of not consuming meats as well such as lowering cholesterol levels, avoidance and reversal of Cancer, Diabetes, Cardiovascular and many other diseases. The rest of your argument is so illogical it doesn't even merit rebuttal. Perhaps all that meat consumption is clogging the blood vessels in your brain. Better stop now.
@ContaMuir17a: Well, beyond the vitamins that are rare and a non meat diet usually lacks, such as B12, their is Iron. "What? Iron? Ha, you fool, plants like spinach has Iron in it!" Yes, that is true, but this form of Iron is not the same that is in meat. The iron in meat is superior to that in plants. That is just one example.
Ah, first, nothing reverses cancer that we know of, that would be a cure. Next, plants too cause cancer. Sugar is in plants too, as are oils, and too much is bad.
@BLHProductions there are many sources of iron in vegetable foods. Even cooking in cast iron pans supplies elemental iron. Good sources of iron for vegetarians include wholegrain cereals and flours, leafy green vegetables, black strap molasses, pulses such as lentils and kidney beans, and some dried fruits.
@BLHProductions Vitamin C greatly increases the absorption of non-haem iron. Foods rich in vitamin C include citrus fruits, green peppers, and fresh leafy green vegetables. Citric acid, sugars, amino acids and alcohol can also promote iron absorption. Iron absorption can also be influenced by the amount of iron in the diet. Lowered levels of iron in the diet result in improved absorption.
@ContaMuir17a: Saying the amount of iron in foods doesn't matter if you do not compare it to meat. Broccoli has a lot of iron in it, but as I have said, it doesn't have the best form of iron. Their are many different forms of the same thing. And I don't think iron particles from a pan counts all that much. LOL.
@BLHProductions Acidic foods like tomatoes can react with the metal in a cast-iron skillet and actually absorb some of the iron molecules. This is a safe and effective way to increase your iron intake. The greater the acidity of the food and the longer you cook it, the more iron is transferred to the food. Foods that contain more water also seem to absorb more iron. This has been shown in various studies, including an article published in the Journal of Food Science.
@BLHProductions Acording to the Center For Disease Control & Prevention the daily human requirement for iron ranges from 8 to 27 mg per day. Women need more than men, pregnant women need the most. The source of the iron is not important. It is how much is absorbed that matters. As stated above eating vitamin C with iron containing foods increases absorption. We humans with the really big brains can decide to take blood tests or vitamin pills if we are unduly concerned by people like you.
@ContaMuir17a: So if a vegan diet can fail when you only need small amounts of B12 and Iron, as you say, then you just make it weaker and weaker don't you?
No logical reason to stop eating meat all together. Perhaps lowering your intake based on the amount you exercise. And a closer to home choice is good to, because as I said a lot is wasted.
Morally you have, once everything is said and done, "I don't like animals dying." Which isn't a valid reason for everyone now is it?
@BLHProductions I question your logical reasoning abilities. Disease prevention and reversal. Eliminating Massive animal suffering. Do you know that some animals are confined in cages where they can barely move for years at a time? They never see the sun or sky and endure frequent torture & abuse. Pollution of our ground waters, dead zones in the ocean from factory farm run off. New disease organisms germinating on factory farms that can be fatal to humans. Fecal matter from farms contaminating
@BLHProductions our crops that causes human death and suffering. Wasting millions & millions of gallons of water each year, which by the way you pay for with your taxes. The government subsidies the water usage. If they didn't you wouldn't e able to afford meat. It costs that much. Who do you think actually pays the bill? Right Tax payers. Green house gas reduction. Heard of global warming? More reasons too. I think you're on the right track though. Reduce over all. Go vegan 1 day a week. Try it
@ContaMuir17a: What would cows do if they were out in the wild? Still produce methane. You also seem to forget that water is something natural that we are charged for because we get it efficiently. You also forget that water is renewable. As long as you don't destroy the original source of over use it you can take as much more then you use currently. Water crops can do this too. How much water goes to your food and direct consumption every year? More then to cows.
@ContaMuir17a: Global warming...lets ignore any argument as to if it is real or if it is all because of humans shall we? So about 18% is suppose to be from the meat industry according to a lot of plant eaters. So how much is that because of animals and how much is because of shipping? Animals and shipping remain the same even in a vegan world. This is also a problem I run into a lot. You assume that I have never stopped eating meat. I have been vegetarian, and I didn't like it. I prefer meat.
@BLHProductions I think that if you were completely honest you would admit that you are not arguing for health reasons, but because you have grown accustomed to the taste & smell of meat products, & you associate it with pleasant, comforting social events & occasions. The flavors come mostly from high fat content, camelization (browning), and heavy seasonings. These flavors can be also obtained from creative vegetarian cooking. I have about 400 cooking videos come see for yourself.
@ContaMuir17a: In the correct moderation a human can drink poison and get positive effects from it (immunity). But meat isn't pison. It isn't the sole cause of all the problems of the world and human health. But lets assume it isn't good for you at all. Lets ignore all the pluses and focus on the negative. So what? Alcohol is bad for you to. So should you not drink alcohol? No, it's your choice. You don't have to always make one that is the best for you. You can indulge if you choose to.
@ContaMuir17a: Flavored meat tastes better then flavored tofu Canta. Better then flavored noodles and rice. But taste is just the reason why it is eating to excess. It's not like I eat a a bunch of meat ever meal, I go from a few slices to a single or double serving. So perhaps 3 servings a day, 4 at times, and at times 2. Yes, I am so addicted to meat, that's why if I'm not all that hungry I eat a nice vegan sandwich...with milk.
@BLHProductions experiment with new flavors and methods of cooking on your meatless days. Most of the vegetarians you talk to used to be meat eaters. We understand the conversion process very well. But when you balance the health, environmental, and suffering prevention against a taste and mouth feel that lasts only a few minutes, many intelligent & compassionate individuals choose to become vegetarian. At the very least, If you insist on eating meat, raise it yourself or hunt.
@BLHProductions please do not buy meat & animal products at your local supermarket or restaurant. They are the product of horrible prolonged suffering, torturing & pain. I believe that even sportsmen who actually take the time to see how animals are abused, sometimes for years at a time, would be appalled & demand it to be stopped. I'm not just talking about the fact that they are killed, which for many of them is the absolutely best thing that happened to them their entire lives. Please stop it
@ContaMuir17a: Not all the time. This is a folly you have allowed yourself to believe. Not all farms are the atrocities that they are suppose to be in the videos. Try looking at a few newer farms or human farms. Some treat their animals better then some pets are, and others have no energy bills because they burn all that methane that contributes to global warming. The problem you have is that instead of changing the problem you want to change everyone else. Instead of making cars safe outlaw'em.
@BLHProductions Imaging being born in a dark shed and living your entire life there, over tons of shit & piss from the other animals. Imagine being Tortured, Beaten, Kicked, Stabbed, & Punched by frustrated workers who are forced to move faster & faster by their company's attempt to meet the seemingly insatiable demand for your flesh. The next time you are in pain from bumping your elbow or knee remember the animals pain. So many of you are packed into your Prison Cell, you can barely move.
@ContaMuir17a:Imagine a world where people lie because it is a means to an end. Imagine a world where animals are treated well before they die. Where they are kept from harm until one day in adulthood where they are killed as fast as possible. Now come to the realization that you don't have to. This is the true reality. Perhaps its because I live next to cow farms where they are not treated bad. I have first hand experience and it is all positive. Not a shady video that is plausible at best.
@BLHProductions Please come visit my page and watch some of the hundreds of videos I have there that will show you multiple instances of this occurring on farms in the US & all over the world. No animal should be subjected to these sustained cruelties for any reason ever. There are thousands of other videos available on YouTube & other sites. Websites, pictures, text descriptions, audio testimony. The evidence is truly overwhelming &undeniable. The only thing you have to do is look at it now.
@ContaMuir17a: The problem is that they videos are made with the idea they are the norm. They are not. I might watch them but if the "HOLY" "documentary" Earthlings can't change my "flawed" morals, I don't think a YouTube video will.
@BLHProductions Read "Animal Liberation" by Peter Singer, a renowned ethicist who basically started the modern animal welfare movement. Singer doesn't get his facts from PETA websites, he gets them from the magazines and journals published by the industry. Not only are terrible, cramped conditions the norm, they are recommended by the industry for maximizing profit margins. Though I wish it weren't so, most livestock are miserable.
@seflersinsburg10: Sadly PETA is not the only outlet for propaganda. It is also sad that a good cause is so tainted by extremists.
Though perhaps all the good farms are just in the places where I have been (nearly cost to cost). Perhaps all the "normal" conditions that are so horrible were missed. Or perhaps the numbers exaggerated by people who have an agenda rather then getting the truth out.
well, i'm not a biologist, but I guess that a lot of information is taunted by the meat industry as well. and do u reckon that all the livestock which sooner or later ends up in supermarkts has its origin in farms. do u deny the existence of factory farming?besides, have u never thought of the ecological consequences of excessive meat production?and could u explain in more detail what numbers are exaggerated? and what is certainly beyond my grasp: whats the point of antivegan?
@wasti82: Yes probably, though to say that everything is a conspiracy is a bit off. At least I can say that a veg diet can be healthy, but most vegs simply can't say that, to say that their diet isn't needed would be a blow to what they believe as they are sacrificing more then I do to feel normal.
No, factory farms exist, but not all farms are factory farms and one can simply buy from free range farms right?
Yes, the same as excessive anything, including crops, ends in a wasteland.
@BLHProductions whether a vegan diet is healthier is arguable. eating hormone-treated meat from factory farms or abstaining from milk etc. is both not good for one's health. and when discussing such difficult topics it's awkward to use slippery terms like "normal". btw, the vast majority of meat undoubtedly originates in factory farms or would u dispute it? 2 questions: why do u eat meat? (instead of turning into a vegan u could as well be a ovo-lacto vegetarian, which isnt unhealthier than...
@wasti82: So you would be a vegetarian I guess? The same for a vegetarian diet. Although healthier then vegans, one still doesn't have to be a vegetarian to be healthy.
No, a lot does, however not all of it does. Know where you buy from or buy locally. More humane and sustainable.
When I tried a vegetarian diet I didn't like it, I know it's not as unhealthy as people say it is, and I like the taste.
@wasti82: To sum everything up, you look and judge as how things are now and I say how they could be. I can say I think it's moral to eat meat but that we need to improve how we do it right?
Mostly the 1:10 ratio and the greenhouse gasses from animal production. You should read Meat: A Benign Extravagance.
I'm not anti-vegan, I am against people who think everyone has to be like them in order to me moral, Christians and Atheists who do the same piss me off too, vegs are just easier to debate.
@BLHProductions ...than consuming meat (to say the least - all we have are correlation studies which back up the hypothesis that ovo-lacto vegetarians have a better health; but they cant shed light on the question of cause and effect - thus the effects can be explained differently). 2. "they are sacrificing more than i feel normal" - why do u give a crap? 3. how often do u eat meat? 4.and where do u get it? and 5. what do u make of fast food chains? sorry, 5 questions and not 2!
@wasti82: Well just about any limiting diet can be healthy if the person personally can and wants to do it. The biggest reason why omnivore diets are sited as unhealthy is because people can and do practice the diet and don't watch what they eat and because there are so many people. Vegetarian is a fairly small group by comparison, and they tend to watch what they eat.
I'm going to end this one and start again since there is 4 other questions.
@wasti82: Vegs tend to sacrifice more to feel as they did when they ate meat, some may feel better for it though, but that's if they do more then they think they need to. I dp care for animals even though I eat them which is why I am for humanly raised and killed meat.
Daily unless I feel otherwise or don't pay attention, usually 1/3-1/4 of what I eat.
Varies, I am in college so I don't have a big say where my food comes from ATM.
Their animals could be treated better and moderation.
@wasti82: And I say easier because I am a biology student, not because I think they are all idiots, I've met vegs who are nice before even though they disagree with me.
@seflersinsburg10: Also, perhaps evidence after I was born would be good. 1975 is a bit dated, considering the state of environmental protection now as compared to 1975, which was almost non-existent.
@BLHProductions Animals we Murder for their flesh frequently live in Torment & Tremble with Fear at the Approach of humans because they Remember Being Beaten Previously. Billions are Murdered Shortly After Birth, by suffocation or being ground up by Whirling Blades. Animals allowed to live frequently have parts of their bodies; ripped out, cut off or burned without any attempt at anesthesia, they are drugged, pumped full antibiotics, & growth hormones. Many will become lame from rapid growth.
@ContaMuir17a: Wrong. We kill them we don't murder them. You are used weighted language that is flawed at best. Murder implies needlessness and malice toward what is killed. A cat doesn't murder a mouse, and a human doesn't murder a cow. Because of this flaw I will not respond to the rest you wrote in this post.
@BLHProductions if you are buying or eating meat or dairy products you should be responsible enough to know exactly how the animals were raised. Many people will stop consuming flesh products when they see the actual production methods, because the methods used are so incredibly terrible. Now my question to you is are you brave enough to witness the evidence for yourself?
@ContaMuir17a: I do. Some places are bad, many are good, and some are great. Now when you say production, do you mean after they are killed? Because I remember Earthlings showing this. I'm sorry but I don't feel bad for an animal being chopped up AFTER it has died. Now what you likely mean is use of a piston gun and then what the videos show where they are allowed to bleed out. If they are alive they soon won't be; if they are dead it doesn't matter. You need blood, if it gushes you die faster.
@BLHProductions Do you know how tiresome the B12 issue is? Again: The requirement for vitamin B12 is very low. Our bodies store between 2 and 5 micrograms of vitamin B12 and only excrete a very small fraction of this each day. If you stopped all B12 consumption it would take years to show deficiency. This means in order to meet our needs, we should take a daily vitamin B12 supplement of 5-10 micrograms or a weekly vitamin B12 supplement of 2000 micrograms.
@ContaMuir17a: Ah, so now we get to why vegans think their diet is so healthy. It takes years for them to become unhealthy. Also a lot of what plant eaters say is that eating meat is unnatural it is to eat meat. So while other primates eat meat, which takes vitamin supplements?
@BLHProductions some primates eat excrement and I've never seen any wash their food. The naturally occurring microorganisms they ingest is where they get their B12. Lets be very clear that we are only talking about B12. The only reason we need to take B12 is because we wash our food before we eat it. This helps eliminate pesticides, and factory farm runoff-Fecal contamination which can kill us. Benefits of the meat industry at your service. Then there's Mad cow disease, avian and swine flu.
@BLHProductions The B12 in supplements is derived from micro organisms.Non-animal sources of Vitamin B12 include Red Star Vegetarian Support Formula or T-6635+ nutritional yeast (a little less than 1 Tablespoon supplies the adult RDA), and vitamin B12 fortified soy milk. Saccharomyces cerevisiae, is a food yeast which supplies B12, it is grown on a molasses solution, which comes as yellow flakes or powder. It has a cheesy taste.
@BLHProductions Vegans can obtain B12 from a wide range of foods which have been fortified with the vitamin. These include certain yeast extracts, veggieburger mixes, breakfast cereals, vegetable margarines and soya milks. You should check the packaging to see which individual products are fortified with B12.
@BLHProductions The total amount of vitamin B12 stored in body is about 2,0005,000 µg in adults. Around 50% of this is stored in the liver. Approximately 0.1% of this is lost per day by secretions into the gut as not all these secretions are reabsorbed. Bile is the main form of B12 excretion, however, most of the B12 that is secreted in the bile is recycled via enterohepatic circulation.
@BLHProductions Due to the extremely efficient enterohepatic circulation of B12, the liver can store several years worth of vitamin B12; therefore, nutritional deficiency of this vitamin is rare. (Sorry about problem with units above.) The body stores between 2,000 and 5,000 micrograms (µg) of B12.
@BLHProductions Since you only mentioned B12 that is the only vitamin I am referring to here. However; again, there are NO nutrients found in meat that cannot be obtained from eating a wide variety of vegetable foods. None. Zero. Zip. Nadda. Zilch. Absolutely Every nutrient you need you can get from eating only plants. Where do you think those animals you eat get their nutrients? Right they get them from plants! So can you, and everyone else on the entire planet Earth! No exceptions!
@ContaMuir17a@ContaMuir17a: I said it was one example. And although you say plants give you iron, you fail to maintain that meat does too. So if their are no nutrients found in meat that is not in plants then I could eat just meat and take pills for everything else right? Does that sound healthy? No, so why does a diet of plants and pills sound healthy? If you need help, you are doing something wrong.
@BLHProductions Nothing is done wrong in the Vegan diet, if the food is grown 100% organically, and you don't wash and scrub all your food before you eat it you will not need any supplements. The reason we wash our food it to remove factory farm harmful bacteria, and pesticide residue. Yeast can also supply all B12. Go back and reread what I wrote here again. Our bodies are best suited to eating a well balanced whole food vegan diet that limits overly processed foods and excessive fats.
@BLHProductions please remember that all the B12 on the planet. And I do mean ALL of it. Is produced by microorganisms. Whether it obtained by secondary sources such as meat or by primary vegan sources like yeast, ALL of it is produced by microorganisms. Why wouldn't you choose the primary source instead? There are other vegan foods that supply B12. The issue is that they sometimes do not contain very much B12, because remember all the B12 on the planet comes from microorganisms. All of it.
@ContaMuir17a: Plants don't naturally have B12 in them. As you said it is from a microorganisms. Oh and why not both? Eat a hamburger, get it from the yeast in bread and a secondary source. A Liter of water and a microliter of water. What is better? The Liter, the microliter, or both? Both right? As long as the nutrient you are getting isn't poisonous at high levels more is better. Either it's saved or passed like Vitamin C is.
@BLHProductions That is exactly wrong! The nutrient your body needs the most of is not contained in meat. What is this nutrient you ask? I'm glad you asked. It's carbohydrates. As discussed previously carbohydrates are the primary energy sources of all cells including humans. Through the Krebs cycle they are used to turn ADP into ATP, which is a cellular equivalent to a rechargeable battery. Atkins you say? That diet is the best ways to make yourself sick. You loose weight because of ketosis.
@ContaMuir17a: Ah, so a diet where I eat mostly meat and potatoes will be great correct? But you still forget the most important thing, healthy food is food that is most nutrient dense. So while plants will contain larger amounts of one nutrient then is in meat, meat still has more variety. Also your body breaks down everything, to an extent, into cell energy. You can do this with sugar and fat and get the same effect. The same can be said of veganism. Variation is the best.
@ContaMuir17a: Where? Well like humans animals make nutrients that other animals don't make. Besides this they eat things like grass and other plants humans can't eat. Now it is true that we feed them grain, but this is either grain that is such low grade its unfit for human consumption or surplus.
@BLHProductions On the contrary, We purposely grow billions and billions of bushels of grains to feed to factory farmed animals. It is grown intentionally. It is not surplus. This is land that could be growing food directly for people. If it was growing food for people we could feed many many more people than we possibly could feeding it to animals first. Additionally we use trillions of gallons to raise this grain and to water the animals. This is a major waste of resources. -- check the facts.
@BLHProductions The biochemistry of every cell on the planet requires either the consumption or production of sugar for its survival. That includes human beings. Sugars fuel the Krebs cycle which is what supplies the energy our cells need to do every biochemical function. While it is true the Krebs cycle can use amino acids or fats for fuel the process is much less inefficient. Sugar is not the enemy. We need sugars to survive. However complex carbohydrates are the best form of sugars to consume
@BLHProductions . Do you really require someone to tell you that eating too many processed foods are bad for you? Eating a wide variety of whole vegetable foods in as close to their natural state as possible is the healthiest diet possible. The same with oils. Our bodies need some fat each day (about 30 g). If you eat lots of food like doughnuts and french fries you'll have problems but that is different. We need sugars and fats. Moderation is the key. Complex natural forms are best.
@BLHProductions Controlled Studies funded by the Department of Defense through Henry Jackson Foundation, National Institutes of Health, UCSF Specialized Program of Research Excellence, the Koch Foundation, Buchshaum Family Foundation, Highmark Inc., Fisher Foundation, Ellison Foundation, Gallin Foundation, Wynn Foundation, and the Walton Family Foundation
@BLHProductions performed at the University of California, San Francisco directed by Dean Ornish, MD, clinical professor, and Peter Carrol, MD, chair of the Department of Urology, and late William Fair from the Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center have shown that vegetarian diets can reverse prostate cancer.
@BLHProductions There are numerous other studies and physicians who concur as well, including the China Study. Stop by and watch some of my Super Size Me play list if you think you can muster the maturity to have an open mind. Cancer is big business. Who do you think gets rich by people not knowing the truth? How powerful is the meat industry at suppressing this information?
@BLHProductions There are studies which report, the following diseases can be prevented, reversed, and or eliminated by the adoption eating a whole foods strict vegetarian diet, which limits highly processed foods and excessive fats; obesity, hypertension, coronary heart disease, stroke, gall bladder disease, osteoarthritis, osteoporosis, sleep apnea, respiratory problems, endometrial breast colon & prostate cancers, dislipidemia, adult diabetes, steatohepatitis, asthma, hyperuracemia, diabetes
@BLHProductions do you even want me to start telling you about the detrimental environmental impact that eating Meat, Fish, Eggs, Milk, Cheese, Pork has on our planet? How about how many dangerous diseases are spawned or spread through the massive confinement of factory farmed animals in relatively small areas? How about how much water we use for meat production? How about how many more people could be fed if we didn't feed so much to farmed animals? ALL the excuses meat eaters give are stupid.
0:44 Lions are a great example of this. If a lion gets the oppurtunity, it will kill a leopard or cheetah to eliminate the competition for food. Lions have been found to kill these cats and not even eat them because they weren't killing them out of hunger.
KawaiiKemonomimi 4 months ago
Speciesism is in a nutshell, the argument that we as humans, make a preference for our own species, for no other reason than that it is the same species we belong to. @ThatGuyFromAustria, if you are defending this 'speciesist' position, then why is there any need (as seen in your other videos) to assess the mental capabilities of other animals at all? If it is defensible to grant rights on merely this quality of 'sameness', then why even consider other qualities, such as self-consciousness.
sarahdatblygu 5 months ago
@sarahdatblygu, conscious or not is in fact irrelevant for humans to have human rights, this is a point brought up by animal rights philosophy, not by humanism.
ThatGuyFromAustria 5 months ago
I love the video. Good stuff although i do have to say most anthropologist have come to the conclusion that Neanderthals were not a separate species. However this doesnt debunk any of your evidence because there is no evidence that we treated them any different from ourselves in different tribes. Also we wouldn't treat them as none humans because they would look pretty much the same and we couldn't tell if they were not homo sapien sapien
junkmonkeyramm2 10 months ago
Hi. I'm a vegan if you want to decide beforehand if I'm writing craps or not. I respect that people don't agree with my opinions or think vegan ethic is wrong. I would appreciate in fact if you presented arguments we could discuss on and maybe we both would correct or re-postulate our opinions. But when you resort to insulting ("You fucking idiots"), you are presenting nothing else than your complexes. I would say something frustrates you a lot; if only you could fix it up :)
lesteer 1 year ago
@lesteer, question: If somebody says, “1+1=2, my friend”, or, “1+1=2, stupid!”, what does this make 1+1? If you are looking for arguments (besides that the video itself contains them), you may watch videos from the respective playlist of my channel.
ThatGuyFromAustria 1 year ago
@lesteer I don't really think most people think vegan ethics are wrong. They're just stupid.
DaliDahmerly 7 months ago
@ThatGuyFromAustria: your ethics are complete crap. You state that "everything you are able to do you're actually allowed to do." A person may be able to do torture a baby for fun, but that does not make it ethical. One might burn a cat alive for entertainment as people did in the Middle Ages, but that does not make it okay.
seflersinsburg10 1 year ago
@seflersinsburg10: It is always amusing how people who are not able to understand the English language call me stupid: I talked about LAWS OF NATURE, man!
ThatGuyFromAustria 1 year ago
@ThatGuyFromAustria well hopefully u r not going to insult me as I'm more interested in comprehending ur points.ref. to the term "vegan propaganda": dont u think that the meat industry also fools us quite frequently?when u talk about female spiders eating their males u correctly subsume this phenomenon under "laws of nature", but what has to do with the human exploitation of animals? we r not dependent on exploiting them as is a spider which does it to ensure its survival.
wasti82 7 months ago
@ThatGuyFromAustria secondly: so according to ur "laws of nature"-mantra makes u think that humans are morally entitled to treat animals as they live it? just because animals cant defend themselves as they are weaker?! what about a mentally disabled guy who is heavily dependent on other people's help and care. without ethics he would go down the drain, wouldnt he?! i might be mixing up few things here, but i'm pretty sure that ur line of arguments falls short
wasti82 7 months ago
@wasti82, erm, you may check my video about the fundamental fallacy of the animal rights idea, or my video about Tom Regan. The animal rights idea in itself is inherently flawed.
ThatGuyFromAustria 7 months ago
@wasti82 We are entitled to eat a cow just as any other omnivorous or carnivorous animal would be. A lot of animals can totally defend themselves. Even deer and cows and what not can fuck up an unarmed human. Have you ever seen a raccoon in person? They will try to attack you, and they are not helpless in doing so. Morals and ethics are entirely a human concept that does not apply to animals. There is just no animal in existence that can even compare to our intelligence.
DaliDahmerly 7 months ago
Though Richard Ryder's arguments are factually inaccurate, they are logically sound. Philosophers often use hypothetical cases to illustrate moral truths. Invoking the possibility of extra-terrestrials to attack speciesism is completely sensible. If you want a more concrete example, try AI. Eventually humans will design and build non-human robots who will be at least as intelligent as ourselves. We would call them our equals, would we not?
seflersinsburg10 1 year ago
When I look up Speciesist in the Encyclopedia there's a picture of your Icon! Amazing! You are completely deluded. I cannot believe the torrential flood of Faulty logic and filth that pours from your mouth. Really, if you cannot do better perhaps you should get off the internet now. Visit your local factory farm to see first hand speciesism. You try to use childish logic to justify your childish lust to chew on bloody flesh. Perhaps a few years in a battery cage would change your perspective.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
There are simple ethical reasons why we shouldn't eat animals.
1) Producing 1kg meat requires up to 20kg grain food. However, meat has no better nutritional value. Meat production is a huge waste of ressources and contributes to world hunger.
2) Dung severly poisons groundwater, cow farts contribute to global warming
3) Quite a few studies indicate that meat consumers die earlier than vegetarians or vegans
4) Sentient animals suffer from factory farming. We deliberatly inflict pain.
Funaru 2 years ago
Please watch my video on hunger.
ThatGuyFromAustria 2 years ago
Ah my friend, why do we always have to show them how they are also to blame for the fact 80% of the world population lives with less the 10$ a day. But it' all the fault of meat, bunch of hypocrites. See you, Ivan.
celt130 2 years ago
I did not say world poverty is the fault of meat. I think it is the idology of decadence and exploitation.
All the grains you named are edible for us and are also used in food production. There are also corn and soy fed in large amounts.
I did't argue for veganism, though you are right- it's an ethical choice which comes with a lot of disadvantages and inconviniences in our society. Therefore, in my opinion, the ideal middle way is vegetarianism.
Funaru 2 years ago
They are edible but are only used in a very smal amount for human consumption.Animals eat soymeal,that is a byproduct of making soyoil wich is mainly used for humans.Soymeal is not for human consumption.If you say to vegans that vegetarism is the ideal middle way I don't think they will agree. at all.Most vegans don't have to much symphaty for vegetariasm as they feel they didn't go all the way.
celt130 2 years ago
What is a terrorist? My family was in the resistance during WW2 and labelled as terrorists by the nazis. When did vengeance become moral?
celt130 2 years ago
I think of modern fanatic terrorists, like the islamists in the middle east who kill innocent people in order to establish an islamic theocracy where apostasy is punished with death - very unlike to freedom fighters who fight against a terror regime like the theocracy the islamists want to establish.
Funaru 2 years ago
That is your idea, what do you think our brave europeans cristians have done for centuries around the world?How many people have died because of them?How many people enslaved based on the theory of inferiour races?Simply because they didn't have the same religion?
celt130 2 years ago
You see, I'm not a militant vegan and I too can't really stand constant moralizing while many of their arguments are logically and ethically invalid. Though, I'm still for animal rights and against speciesism.
I certainly don't think animaly husbandry is a bad thing in itself - when it is carried out humanely. But this is not today's norm, especially not in factory farms - which are by no means natural in any way. The only interest of factory farmers is profit, not animal wellfare.
Funaru 2 years ago
We can agree that there is no need to eat 3x meat a day,use more natural means to produce what we eat.But humans are already living for almost 60% in urban areas.Those people can no longer feed themselves and that is why industrialisation will continue to grow.Every aspect from agriculture is to make money,it is a very big industry.The world is not black and white,only extremists think it is.
celt130 2 years ago
I think you will agree that the most important problem of our time is overpopulation not eating habits. In my opinion, the poorer nations really fail to control their population growth.
I'm an atheist and i critisize all monotheistic religions, and not only but also because they promote an anthropocentric worldview which excludes all non-human life from any rights - though apes and wales are more intelligent than some humans. Religious intolerance is also a huge problem today.
Funaru 2 years ago
The movement people should talk about in the Islam religion are called "Salafists" and they are not the majority in the Islam movement.On the cristian side you also find those kind of movements.Religious intolerance has always been a problem.But now it's used by certain political movements with the very strong help of the media to justify ideas who are basicly economical related,not religious related.Enfin that is my idea about things.
celt130 2 years ago
I don't agree with factory farming and you have to understand that the methods of feeding a free range animal is far different than feeding a factory farmed animal. The poisinous ground water is also a result of factory farming. The only one of those points that I would like to adress is what "studies" are you refering to and what country were they done in? Diet is only half the issue when it comes to life expectancy and the people that live longest are not vegetarians or vegans.
bugninja80 2 years ago
Yes, free range farming is much different and ethically justifiable - still, globally, only a tiny amount of meat is produced that way and it couldn't be different - there is not enough grazing land. The studies I was talking about were conducted in the US and Europe. If you search for "Vegetarianism" on wikipedia, you'll find a few of them listed. According to these studies Vegetarians and casual fish eaters live longest, while red meat and pork eaters die first.
Funaru 2 years ago
It's not that it couldn't be that way all it means that people would have to eat less and living in America I don't see that as a bad thing. As for the Wiki study it does not state what u claimed it did. It said mortality rates for fish eaters was 82yrs and for vegetarians and occasional meat eaters was 84. Regular meat eaters and vegans had the highest mortality rate and die earlier. They also attributed higher life expectancy in vegetarians due to negelecting habbits like smoking and not diet.
bugninja80 2 years ago
Also if you read the study thuroughly it states there is a lot of inconclusive data and that a low-meat high-plant diet may be the true causal factor in longer life expectancy and not abstaining from meat entirely. The one study they did mention where vege's seemed better off than omnivores was a study conducted with 38 people and has no mention of their life habbits which also makes it inconclusive because it's ignoring key factors. I'm taking this all from the study you gave me.
bugninja80 2 years ago
I agree and I'm sorry for summarizing the results not correctly. Still, I believe vegetarianism is the best compromise.
Funaru 2 years ago
Fair enough I think those that are able to do it correctly should. I tried to do it for a year but it didn't work out for me, it could have been because I started too old or I just couldn't adapt. But I lot a lot of weight and was unhealthy. I know many people that are vegetarian and are very healthy. That just leads me to conclude that different people have different requirements. Good luck over there in the UK :-)
bugninja80 2 years ago
Oh I'm sorry I mean Germany. For some reason I thought you were from the UK.
bugninja80 2 years ago
2)Tell me how you are going to grow your vegetables on a natural way for 6,5 billion people without animal manure?
3)Wrong,the are 10 medical reasons why you can get colon cancer,only one is related to masif red meat eating,not white meat or fish.There are 13 medical reasons to get a heart diseaese,not one is directly related to meat only to bad personel hygiene like obesity.A balanced omnivore diet doesn't kill you,why are there so many 80/90/100 year old omnivores if meat was that bad?
celt130 2 years ago
2) I'm not decisively against livestock breeding - I'm just against cruelty against and exploitation of animals. There are also anorganic fertilizers of which could be produced more
3) Still, most studies indicated that vegetarians statistically live longer than omnivores. Which doesn't mean omnivores can't live long. Of course there are many very old omnivores as by far most of western population lives on such a diet. I still dare say that there'd be even more if everyone eat healthy.
Funaru 2 years ago
1) Only cattle consumes pasture no other livestock animals. In huge factory farms no pature or farm residues are ever fed. Where did you get your numbers from?
Yes I want to pay the real price for goods and food. Everything else means profiting from the misery, poverty and exploitation of others. That's not ethical, that's a facist and racist point of view. Western people are not better than people in developing countries. We gained everything by war, occupation and propaganda.
Funaru 2 years ago
3)"Our findings did come as something of a surprise. At the simplest level if meat causes colorectal cancer you would expect to see lower rates in the
vegetarians, and we didn't," says Professor Tim Key, the epidemiologist
who led the Oxford study.
2)You know of a anorganic fertilizer close to where there needed,in quantity to feed 6,5 billion humans and renewable?
celt130 2 years ago
3) Diseases, antibiotics, horomones, preservatives, feces, overweight, diabetes, to name only a few disguisting things about meat. However, I'm not saying eating meat is unhealthy in all cases, only that that you can omit all these terrible things while having a good conscience about your fellow beings as a vegetarian. Also, nutritionists widely agree, that humans don't need meat to live healthy. It's just a cultural norm and very addictive, that's all.
Funaru 2 years ago
4°Why is it more moral to take the life of a plant then the one of an animal?Because you think plants are sentient? Isn't the taking of life imoral itself? How can justify something like "good" or "bad" when you are taking a live?
celt130 2 years ago
4) Plants have no conscience, not even a potential one. They do not think, they have no feelings, they never suffer. Animals do. Many animals even feel what others feel, dogs and cows for instance. Killing a plant in most cases is morally equivalent to destroying a stone.
It is good not to inflict pain to sentinent beings. It is bad to inflict pain. The best solution is always the one with the most benefit for all and the least suffering.
Funaru 2 years ago
4)It is not about pain it's about if it is moral to kill something even if you believe it doesn't feel pain.If I would give a painkiller to a human and kill him would it make it more moral?No because it is the killing itself wich is not moral.You cannot hide behind the argument of "good" and "bad" killing.Killing is killing and no moral justification will ever take that simple fact away.
celt130 2 years ago
4) You missed the point. (Potential) Conscience is what matters. Conscience is also prerequisite for sentience. And there are cases in which it es even moral to kill conscious and sentinent beings like in self-defence or to kill a tyrant like Hitler. I also woudn`t object to kill an animal for food if I died otherwise. But in our affluent society we are killig animals just for the sake of tasting their meat. That's a base motive for killing, and neither necessity nor heroism
Funaru 2 years ago
"just the sake of tasting there meat"when you eat vegetables you eat them because they taste bad?Vegans always talk about how plants can feel pain because they don't have a brain or nervous system.Plants don't have a heart neither,so how do they live?Vegans always say"why should plants feel pain as there is no evolutional reason for it.What is the evolutional reason for human conscience?Consience isn't an organ and is a scientific enigma,so why wouldn't plants feel pain if human consience exists
celt130 2 years ago
People tend to forget that history is always written by the winners.Hitler was democratily elected by a large part of the german populatiion.He was also quite popular in the world before the war because of his economical succeses in Germany.There is not "one truth",all depends on your own views on a particular subject.And no I am not a fan.Killing to defend yourselve or to eat can be nescesary but that doesn't make it moral at all.
celt130 2 years ago
Perhaps there is "one truth" but individuals like you and me won't be able to find it because we have our subjective viewpoint as you say. I'm therefore always trying to rid my mind of any bias before I discuss any issue.
If you clearly define, what killing is legal or "good", there are no loopholes for extremists. If we don't kill terrorists first, they kill us. And Hitler promoted a bogus ideology which caused millions of deaths. How can you apply these justifications to me?
Funaru 2 years ago
If you promote the idea that it is good to kill "a" but not "b" or "c", eventually somebody will say why not kill "b" or even "c"?If you enforce the moral point of view that killing "a" "b" or "c" is wrong nobody will ever be capable of using your first argument.See how dangerous letting any hole in morality is?Sadly that is the idea you promote even if it only applies for plants and animals in your mind.
celt130 2 years ago
Yes, I promote the idea that killing is ok in some cases - but only in self-defence or for tyrannicide. That's a clear set of rules. Hypothetically spoken, if you try to kill me or if you become the next Hitler I will kill you and I will not be punished by any just legal system. There is no hole in my morality, you see. Likewise, I think it's wrong to kill totally innocent sentinent beings like babies or fellow mammals. Still, I would kill a zombie babie or a mad cow if I had to.
Funaru 2 years ago
You promote the idea that it's good to take the life of "a" but not "b" or "c". Pretty soon somebody will say why not also apply that moral to "b" or even "c". If you apply the zero tolerance by saying that to take lives from "a""b" or "c" is wrong, no one can ever use that moral excuse to justify anything.He can and will do it, but not under the protection of human morality.You apply that principle to plants and animals,why could nobody use that same argument for humans?
celt130 2 years ago
You also see in your comment how dangerous this "good killing" is in the real world.You open a very dangerous door that can be used by any extremist to justify anything he does.You already justified the killing of another sentient human called hitler.Somebody could justify killing you because it would be a 'good kill".That's how wars are justified because you kill the bad guy regarding his political,religious or racial features.Does it make it more moral because it is a "good kill"?
celt130 2 years ago
1)My data comes from the IFAD or the FAO regarding pastures and "integrated crop-livestock farming".
You think you can decide such a thing? don't be naive, our complete economic system works on that principle and it always have worked like that.Remember the slaves?These days we don't chain them with iron but with economy and money.
celt130 2 years ago
1) Search "How much grain is fed to livestock" on google and look into the first result from the world ressource institute. Statistics show that over the last 20 years 35-40% of the worlds grain production was fed to livestock.
Why shouldn't I critisize immoral traditions? What's wrong with that? That it has "always been like that" is no reason to continue with it for ever. Humans have also always killing each other. Does this mean we don't need to do anything about it?
Funaru 2 years ago
Grain is very large family,animals are fed with triticale grain,barley and oats.These kind of grain are almost not used for human consumption.
Vegan isn't a natural choise your body would chose,veganism is an ethical choice.You must constantly monitor your health to be vegan or you will pay it.You can also only live on meat as the Inuits have done for centuries.I like to think the middle way is the best,not extremes.
celt130 2 years ago
4)Plants also feel what other plants feel,plants warn each other when attacked.When plants are attacked by some insects they produce chemical products to atract other insects who can defend them.You think animals have a conscience?You know what is the difference between humans and any other liveform on this planet?Only humans ask themselves the"why"and the"how"of our being on this planet.If you think that your"I am wonderfull because I am a good killer"is moral,so be it for you,but not for me.
celt130 2 years ago
4) Plants have no brains and no CNS. They cannot think or feel anything They can, however, react to neural stimuli.
Yes, we differ from animals because we can cogitate about what's ethical behaviour while animals are driven only by instinct - just like human toddlers. In contrast to the lion we can make the ethical decision not to kill the cow that feels pain perhaps the way a baby does. Or would you argue babies don't feel pain because they don't ask "why"?
Funaru 2 years ago
1)Vegan propaganda, again. 50% of the meat and 90% of the world production are made in farms who work under the "integrated crop-livestock farming" system.Animals are fed on pastures and with farm residues.There manure is used on fields to feed humans and animals.A total natural system.sources ifad and fao.
celt130 2 years ago
Meat and world hunger,a classic.Let's talk basic world economy here. Do you want to continue to pay your goods and food the price you pay them now? Imagine that all the countries in the world would have the same economic power and handle the same salaries. Do you really want to pay the real price for your food and your goods? You as a vegan are also part of this system as you are a world consumer.
celt130 2 years ago
wait there's more
6. You don't get it. You say "We'd blow them out of the sky" wtf this is speciesist in itself. you are assuming that we would be superior race to the aliens. suppose they are smarter, stronger, better technology - does this give them the right to eat us?
7. Ryder uses these alien examples as hypothetical LOGICAL examples
8. I conclude, your views on the world are based on:
- crap
ThatGuyFromAustralia
Asparagooose 2 years ago
6. You weren't paying attention, it seems. He was saying that animals don't willfully allow other creatures to consume them. You have the right to eat what ever you want, which he even said. You have the right to do anything you CAN do, but that doesn't mean that someone, or something (i.e. law enforcement), won't object. If you try to kill and eat elephant, it's going to fight back. If aliens came to eat humans, humans would fight back.
1000g2g3g4g800999 2 years ago
@1000g2g3g4g800999 yes, but suppose for 1 second that we can't. they are much smarter than us, they have better weapons, more advanced etc. it's the same situation. they eat us because they see us as an inferior species. but we would think this is wrong because for once we are on the other side of the fence.
Asparagooose 2 years ago
1. What privileges?
we do not spend our lives in cages, we are not eaten because some 'higher' being wants to taste our flesh - i think that's a pretty big privilege
2. so much hyperbole and dramatic words but zero logic
3. YOU FUCKING APE
4. I'd like to see a gorilla mate with ThatGuyFromAustria
5. You dance around legal definitions because your argument sucks. Humans see themselves as superior to others, unwarranted
ThatGuyFromAustralia
Asparagooose 2 years ago
Anything you're able to do you're allowed to do? You're an idiot! That means if someone is able to kill or torture you they are allowed to kill or torture you. According to your reasoning rape, murder, incest, beatings, poisonings, intentional dumping of poisons into drinking water should all be allowed because it can be done. I'm so glad you only torture us with your videos. And since I'm able to click close I'm going to so now, and I invite all other viewers of your videos to do the same.
ContaMuir17a 2 years ago
Oh my... You did not understand that thing with "laws of nature", did you? Human ethics is not applicable to nature, the laws of nature are not applicable to human society. Because in the first case, the whole world be criminal as a whole, in the second case mankind simply would disintegrate. And this is exactly the reason why that bullshit of "speciesism" makes no sense. And for the future, if you don't understand something, why don't you just stfu?
ThatGuyFromAustria 2 years ago
I understand that you are an idiot! It's intensely obvious. btw a gentleman only swears in bed. Among other things you say that the laws of nature are a universal law and that we are on the same moral continuum as animals. If this stuff is too difficult for you you shouldn't post videos on it. The distinction between the ethics that humans apply to other humans and the ethics that humans apply to other animals is speciesism. Maybe you should disable comments. So we don't prove you wrong! :-)
ContaMuir17a 2 years ago
Question:
If murdering humans is criminal then why is murdering animals acceptable?
Answer:
Speciesism
ContaMuir17a 2 years ago
Proposition:
Perhaps its time for humans to start holding themselves to a higher ethical standard than that which animals use.
ContaMuir17a 2 years ago
If it is not acceptable that one animals kills the other, then is nature acceptable?
You just don't get it, do you?
ThatGuyFromAustria 2 years ago
Even you said that "Human ethics is not applicable to nature, the laws of nature are not applicable to human society" We should not expect human ethics from animals, likewise we should not apply animal ethics toward animals because then we would be like them, and supposedly humans are more advanced than animals. Animals are animals but humans are supposed to be civilized. Two wrongs don't make a right. I guess it's you who doesn't get it isn't it? Do you recall thou shalt not kill?
ContaMuir17a 2 years ago
What is the REASON of human ethics? Do you even know that?
ThatGuyFromAustria 2 years ago
So you're conceding that you really don't understand Speciesism. Thank you.
ContaMuir17a 2 years ago
Jfyi, humans kill animals for themselves their own kind to survive and to prosper, the very same reason all living beings destroy other life, including plants and bacteria. This is also the reason for human ethics, they are to guarantee the best chances of survival and prosperity for our species. This is also the reason for civilization and everything else around here, including your computer. Go it now??? Stupid kid!
ThatGuyFromAustria 2 years ago
LOL you could call me daddy! ;-) you might be right about my computer though, it helps me to confront idiots like you and I'm sure that's good for our species! There is a debt to be paid for eating anything of course our bodies kill invaders, but again this does not justify the torment we inflict on billions of farm animals to consume excess amounts of their flesh. Especially with the aid of our computers we have found proven healthy & safe alternatives.
ContaMuir17a 2 years ago
Hm, that's a logical fallacy, because only because we can do somthing, it doesn't imply that we have to. And of course farming is justifyable, living beings consume other living beings to survive and to prosper, so what exactly is your problem? And yes, I also believe that our "confrontation" is good for mankind, because you perfectly display an irrational desire for supremacy, which is very telling to anyone who reads the comments here.
ThatGuyFromAustria 2 years ago
Additionally I'd like to point out that healthy animals only kill other animals for food, most don't kill their own species (except for some primates). Animals do not kill for sport or trophies. Once an animal is fed it stops killing until it needs more food. Animals in nature do not keep other animals prisoners so that they can kill them at their convenience. In many ways animals treat each other with a higher ethical standard than with which they are treated by humankind. I respect them more.
ContaMuir17a 2 years ago
Cats and orcas kill other animals for fun (they love to play), ants keep lice as slaves, if a wild boar gets angry he will kill anything in sight, and literally ALL animal species kill their own kind for matters of mating rights or territory, and what you call killing for trophies is sthg to impress potential mates/rivals and thus, very natural. We ARE animals, live with it, or bugger of, you stupid kid, and go pester someone else.
ThatGuyFromAustria 2 years ago
you're saying that since there are some instances of animals killing each other for reasons other than food, that we as human beings should not raise ourselves above the pit of bloody burnt animals? That there is no way humans could ever evolve socially, morally, intellectually into creatures who deserve being considered good stewards of the earth? I guess you've classified yourself pretty well, nice to have you be honest about your lust for burnt flesh instead of belittling your superiors.
ContaMuir17a 2 years ago
Ah... that! I know people who claim that (human) evolution is supposed to have a goal, we had them in power right here in Austria, but fortunately, they were defeated in 1945... Do you really think that you can serve nature by discarding its very laws? And why this supremacism? Why do you want to "raise above" other species? If this is not speciesism at its purest, then what else is it?
ThatGuyFromAustria 2 years ago
and... I don't recall saying that it was or was not acceptable that animals kill other animals.
ContaMuir17a 2 years ago
So then why should we not kill other animals? Pigs are animals, humans are animals - what's the problem? Or do you chose that only by an arbitrary distinction by species one animal is allowed to do something that another is not...?
ThatGuyFromAustria 2 years ago
Forgive me for repating myself, apparently you forgot what I said above...
Proposition:
Perhaps its time for humans to start holding themselves to a higher ethical standard than that which animals use.
and ...
Moral, social, spiritual, ethical, humane, intellectual, & biological evolution into the higher state that humans are capable of achieving once they move beyond their petty sensory additions. ie Primitive savage lust of dead burnt bloody animal body parts in their mouths. got it son?
ContaMuir17a 2 years ago
addictions not additions
ContaMuir17a 2 years ago
I have to go now, but don't worry I'll be back to talk with you later. Because I know how much you'd miss me otherwise. ;-)
I was wondering if you'd be kind enough to visit my page and watch the play list called "Earthlings"
It shows how humans are treating all animals, it might give you a broader perspective, then again it might cement your opinions, at any rate I'd like to have your opinion on it.
Thank you for your kindness. Talk with you later my friend.... ;-)
ContaMuir17a 2 years ago
@ContaMuir17a Earthlings is now in the "All Earthlings Have Emotions" Play list.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@ContaMuir17a: I've seen Earthlings. A lot of plant eater propoganda if you ask me. It works for you because you accept it more or less. Not so much for me when I see obvious lies.
BLHProductions 1 year ago
Oh yes, more then you can imagine. Sieg Heil! - we had supremacist ideologies before...
ThatGuyFromAustria 2 years ago
You might even want to watch "The Green Beautiful" on my channel page. I think the only Nazi here is you. Did you miss me?
ContaMuir17a 2 years ago
What ethical standard are you using, exactly?
Guncriminal 2 years ago
Thank you for asking. The best way for you to get your answer is to click on my nick name. That will take you to my channel page. Watch the play lists; "Earthlings" and "Factory Farm Cruelty" and you will have your answer.
ContaMuir17a 2 years ago
@ContaMuir17a: We do. This is why raping, killing, and eating of members of our own species are not allowed. We can do without these things and lessen the suffering of our species. However, their is evidence that not eating meat harms humans and not everyone can do it even if we tried. The idea that we should change simple because some people are bothered by it, makes as much sense as not having your personal religion because someone might find it morally wrong.
BLHProductions 1 year ago
@BLHProductions That is completely wrong. It's your opinion, not science. There are no nutrients in meat that cannot be obtained from vegetable sources. There are health benefits of not consuming meats as well such as lowering cholesterol levels, avoidance and reversal of Cancer, Diabetes, Cardiovascular and many other diseases. The rest of your argument is so illogical it doesn't even merit rebuttal. Perhaps all that meat consumption is clogging the blood vessels in your brain. Better stop now.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@ContaMuir17a: Well, beyond the vitamins that are rare and a non meat diet usually lacks, such as B12, their is Iron. "What? Iron? Ha, you fool, plants like spinach has Iron in it!" Yes, that is true, but this form of Iron is not the same that is in meat. The iron in meat is superior to that in plants. That is just one example.
Ah, first, nothing reverses cancer that we know of, that would be a cure. Next, plants too cause cancer. Sugar is in plants too, as are oils, and too much is bad.
BLHProductions 1 year ago
@BLHProductions there are many sources of iron in vegetable foods. Even cooking in cast iron pans supplies elemental iron. Good sources of iron for vegetarians include wholegrain cereals and flours, leafy green vegetables, black strap molasses, pulses such as lentils and kidney beans, and some dried fruits.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@ContaMuir17a: Any they all are Beta Iron, not Alpha which is found in meat.
BLHProductions 1 year ago
@BLHProductions Vitamin C greatly increases the absorption of non-haem iron. Foods rich in vitamin C include citrus fruits, green peppers, and fresh leafy green vegetables. Citric acid, sugars, amino acids and alcohol can also promote iron absorption. Iron absorption can also be influenced by the amount of iron in the diet. Lowered levels of iron in the diet result in improved absorption.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@BLHProductions Iron content of some foods: Chick peas (200g or 7oz) 6.2 mg Bran flakes (45g or 1oz) 5.3 mg Avocado (75g or 2oz) 1.1 mg Spinach, boiled (100g or 3oz) 4.0 mg Asparagus (125g or 4oz) 1.1 mg Baked beans (225g or 8oz) 3.2 mg 1 slice wholemeal bread (40g) 1.0 mg Black treacle (35g or 1oz) 3.2 mg Broccoli, boiled (100g or 3½oz) 1.0 mg Muesli (60g or 2oz) 2.76mg Brown rice (200g or 7oz) 0.9 mg 4 Dried figs or 8 Dried apricots (60g or 2oz) 2.1 mg Peanut butter (20g) 0.5 mg
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@ContaMuir17a: Saying the amount of iron in foods doesn't matter if you do not compare it to meat. Broccoli has a lot of iron in it, but as I have said, it doesn't have the best form of iron. Their are many different forms of the same thing. And I don't think iron particles from a pan counts all that much. LOL.
BLHProductions 1 year ago
@BLHProductions Acidic foods like tomatoes can react with the metal in a cast-iron skillet and actually absorb some of the iron molecules. This is a safe and effective way to increase your iron intake. The greater the acidity of the food and the longer you cook it, the more iron is transferred to the food. Foods that contain more water also seem to absorb more iron. This has been shown in various studies, including an article published in the Journal of Food Science.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@BLHProductions Acording to the Center For Disease Control & Prevention the daily human requirement for iron ranges from 8 to 27 mg per day. Women need more than men, pregnant women need the most. The source of the iron is not important. It is how much is absorbed that matters. As stated above eating vitamin C with iron containing foods increases absorption. We humans with the really big brains can decide to take blood tests or vitamin pills if we are unduly concerned by people like you.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@ContaMuir17a: So if a vegan diet can fail when you only need small amounts of B12 and Iron, as you say, then you just make it weaker and weaker don't you?
No logical reason to stop eating meat all together. Perhaps lowering your intake based on the amount you exercise. And a closer to home choice is good to, because as I said a lot is wasted.
Morally you have, once everything is said and done, "I don't like animals dying." Which isn't a valid reason for everyone now is it?
BLHProductions 1 year ago
@BLHProductions I question your logical reasoning abilities. Disease prevention and reversal. Eliminating Massive animal suffering. Do you know that some animals are confined in cages where they can barely move for years at a time? They never see the sun or sky and endure frequent torture & abuse. Pollution of our ground waters, dead zones in the ocean from factory farm run off. New disease organisms germinating on factory farms that can be fatal to humans. Fecal matter from farms contaminating
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@BLHProductions our crops that causes human death and suffering. Wasting millions & millions of gallons of water each year, which by the way you pay for with your taxes. The government subsidies the water usage. If they didn't you wouldn't e able to afford meat. It costs that much. Who do you think actually pays the bill? Right Tax payers. Green house gas reduction. Heard of global warming? More reasons too. I think you're on the right track though. Reduce over all. Go vegan 1 day a week. Try it
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@ContaMuir17a: What would cows do if they were out in the wild? Still produce methane. You also seem to forget that water is something natural that we are charged for because we get it efficiently. You also forget that water is renewable. As long as you don't destroy the original source of over use it you can take as much more then you use currently. Water crops can do this too. How much water goes to your food and direct consumption every year? More then to cows.
BLHProductions 1 year ago
@ContaMuir17a: Global warming...lets ignore any argument as to if it is real or if it is all because of humans shall we? So about 18% is suppose to be from the meat industry according to a lot of plant eaters. So how much is that because of animals and how much is because of shipping? Animals and shipping remain the same even in a vegan world. This is also a problem I run into a lot. You assume that I have never stopped eating meat. I have been vegetarian, and I didn't like it. I prefer meat.
BLHProductions 1 year ago
@BLHProductions I think that if you were completely honest you would admit that you are not arguing for health reasons, but because you have grown accustomed to the taste & smell of meat products, & you associate it with pleasant, comforting social events & occasions. The flavors come mostly from high fat content, camelization (browning), and heavy seasonings. These flavors can be also obtained from creative vegetarian cooking. I have about 400 cooking videos come see for yourself.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@ContaMuir17a: In the correct moderation a human can drink poison and get positive effects from it (immunity). But meat isn't pison. It isn't the sole cause of all the problems of the world and human health. But lets assume it isn't good for you at all. Lets ignore all the pluses and focus on the negative. So what? Alcohol is bad for you to. So should you not drink alcohol? No, it's your choice. You don't have to always make one that is the best for you. You can indulge if you choose to.
BLHProductions 1 year ago
@ContaMuir17a: Flavored meat tastes better then flavored tofu Canta. Better then flavored noodles and rice. But taste is just the reason why it is eating to excess. It's not like I eat a a bunch of meat ever meal, I go from a few slices to a single or double serving. So perhaps 3 servings a day, 4 at times, and at times 2. Yes, I am so addicted to meat, that's why if I'm not all that hungry I eat a nice vegan sandwich...with milk.
BLHProductions 1 year ago
@BLHProductions experiment with new flavors and methods of cooking on your meatless days. Most of the vegetarians you talk to used to be meat eaters. We understand the conversion process very well. But when you balance the health, environmental, and suffering prevention against a taste and mouth feel that lasts only a few minutes, many intelligent & compassionate individuals choose to become vegetarian. At the very least, If you insist on eating meat, raise it yourself or hunt.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@ContaMuir17a: Yeah...already have. Meat still completes the meal.
BLHProductions 1 year ago
@BLHProductions please do not buy meat & animal products at your local supermarket or restaurant. They are the product of horrible prolonged suffering, torturing & pain. I believe that even sportsmen who actually take the time to see how animals are abused, sometimes for years at a time, would be appalled & demand it to be stopped. I'm not just talking about the fact that they are killed, which for many of them is the absolutely best thing that happened to them their entire lives. Please stop it
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@ContaMuir17a: Not all the time. This is a folly you have allowed yourself to believe. Not all farms are the atrocities that they are suppose to be in the videos. Try looking at a few newer farms or human farms. Some treat their animals better then some pets are, and others have no energy bills because they burn all that methane that contributes to global warming. The problem you have is that instead of changing the problem you want to change everyone else. Instead of making cars safe outlaw'em.
BLHProductions 1 year ago
@BLHProductions Imaging being born in a dark shed and living your entire life there, over tons of shit & piss from the other animals. Imagine being Tortured, Beaten, Kicked, Stabbed, & Punched by frustrated workers who are forced to move faster & faster by their company's attempt to meet the seemingly insatiable demand for your flesh. The next time you are in pain from bumping your elbow or knee remember the animals pain. So many of you are packed into your Prison Cell, you can barely move.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@ContaMuir17a:Imagine a world where people lie because it is a means to an end. Imagine a world where animals are treated well before they die. Where they are kept from harm until one day in adulthood where they are killed as fast as possible. Now come to the realization that you don't have to. This is the true reality. Perhaps its because I live next to cow farms where they are not treated bad. I have first hand experience and it is all positive. Not a shady video that is plausible at best.
BLHProductions 1 year ago
@BLHProductions Please come visit my page and watch some of the hundreds of videos I have there that will show you multiple instances of this occurring on farms in the US & all over the world. No animal should be subjected to these sustained cruelties for any reason ever. There are thousands of other videos available on YouTube & other sites. Websites, pictures, text descriptions, audio testimony. The evidence is truly overwhelming &undeniable. The only thing you have to do is look at it now.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@ContaMuir17a: The problem is that they videos are made with the idea they are the norm. They are not. I might watch them but if the "HOLY" "documentary" Earthlings can't change my "flawed" morals, I don't think a YouTube video will.
BLHProductions 1 year ago
@BLHProductions Read "Animal Liberation" by Peter Singer, a renowned ethicist who basically started the modern animal welfare movement. Singer doesn't get his facts from PETA websites, he gets them from the magazines and journals published by the industry. Not only are terrible, cramped conditions the norm, they are recommended by the industry for maximizing profit margins. Though I wish it weren't so, most livestock are miserable.
seflersinsburg10 1 year ago
@seflersinsburg10: Sadly PETA is not the only outlet for propaganda. It is also sad that a good cause is so tainted by extremists.
Though perhaps all the good farms are just in the places where I have been (nearly cost to cost). Perhaps all the "normal" conditions that are so horrible were missed. Or perhaps the numbers exaggerated by people who have an agenda rather then getting the truth out.
BLHProductions 1 year ago
@BLHProductions
well, i'm not a biologist, but I guess that a lot of information is taunted by the meat industry as well. and do u reckon that all the livestock which sooner or later ends up in supermarkts has its origin in farms. do u deny the existence of factory farming?besides, have u never thought of the ecological consequences of excessive meat production?and could u explain in more detail what numbers are exaggerated? and what is certainly beyond my grasp: whats the point of antivegan?
wasti82 7 months ago
@wasti82: Yes probably, though to say that everything is a conspiracy is a bit off. At least I can say that a veg diet can be healthy, but most vegs simply can't say that, to say that their diet isn't needed would be a blow to what they believe as they are sacrificing more then I do to feel normal.
No, factory farms exist, but not all farms are factory farms and one can simply buy from free range farms right?
Yes, the same as excessive anything, including crops, ends in a wasteland.
BLHProductions 7 months ago
@BLHProductions whether a vegan diet is healthier is arguable. eating hormone-treated meat from factory farms or abstaining from milk etc. is both not good for one's health. and when discussing such difficult topics it's awkward to use slippery terms like "normal". btw, the vast majority of meat undoubtedly originates in factory farms or would u dispute it? 2 questions: why do u eat meat? (instead of turning into a vegan u could as well be a ovo-lacto vegetarian, which isnt unhealthier than...
wasti82 7 months ago
@wasti82: So you would be a vegetarian I guess? The same for a vegetarian diet. Although healthier then vegans, one still doesn't have to be a vegetarian to be healthy.
No, a lot does, however not all of it does. Know where you buy from or buy locally. More humane and sustainable.
When I tried a vegetarian diet I didn't like it, I know it's not as unhealthy as people say it is, and I like the taste.
BLHProductions 7 months ago
@wasti82: To sum everything up, you look and judge as how things are now and I say how they could be. I can say I think it's moral to eat meat but that we need to improve how we do it right?
Mostly the 1:10 ratio and the greenhouse gasses from animal production. You should read Meat: A Benign Extravagance.
I'm not anti-vegan, I am against people who think everyone has to be like them in order to me moral, Christians and Atheists who do the same piss me off too, vegs are just easier to debate.
BLHProductions 7 months ago
@BLHProductions ...than consuming meat (to say the least - all we have are correlation studies which back up the hypothesis that ovo-lacto vegetarians have a better health; but they cant shed light on the question of cause and effect - thus the effects can be explained differently). 2. "they are sacrificing more than i feel normal" - why do u give a crap? 3. how often do u eat meat? 4.and where do u get it? and 5. what do u make of fast food chains? sorry, 5 questions and not 2!
wasti82 7 months ago
@wasti82: Well just about any limiting diet can be healthy if the person personally can and wants to do it. The biggest reason why omnivore diets are sited as unhealthy is because people can and do practice the diet and don't watch what they eat and because there are so many people. Vegetarian is a fairly small group by comparison, and they tend to watch what they eat.
I'm going to end this one and start again since there is 4 other questions.
BLHProductions 7 months ago
@wasti82: Vegs tend to sacrifice more to feel as they did when they ate meat, some may feel better for it though, but that's if they do more then they think they need to. I dp care for animals even though I eat them which is why I am for humanly raised and killed meat.
Daily unless I feel otherwise or don't pay attention, usually 1/3-1/4 of what I eat.
Varies, I am in college so I don't have a big say where my food comes from ATM.
Their animals could be treated better and moderation.
BLHProductions 7 months ago
@wasti82: And I say easier because I am a biology student, not because I think they are all idiots, I've met vegs who are nice before even though they disagree with me.
BLHProductions 7 months ago
@seflersinsburg10: Also, perhaps evidence after I was born would be good. 1975 is a bit dated, considering the state of environmental protection now as compared to 1975, which was almost non-existent.
BLHProductions 1 year ago
@seflersinsburg10: So would getting someone who didn't support bestiality. Just saying.
BLHProductions 1 year ago
@BLHProductions Animals we Murder for their flesh frequently live in Torment & Tremble with Fear at the Approach of humans because they Remember Being Beaten Previously. Billions are Murdered Shortly After Birth, by suffocation or being ground up by Whirling Blades. Animals allowed to live frequently have parts of their bodies; ripped out, cut off or burned without any attempt at anesthesia, they are drugged, pumped full antibiotics, & growth hormones. Many will become lame from rapid growth.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@ContaMuir17a: Wrong. We kill them we don't murder them. You are used weighted language that is flawed at best. Murder implies needlessness and malice toward what is killed. A cat doesn't murder a mouse, and a human doesn't murder a cow. Because of this flaw I will not respond to the rest you wrote in this post.
BLHProductions 1 year ago
@BLHProductions if you are buying or eating meat or dairy products you should be responsible enough to know exactly how the animals were raised. Many people will stop consuming flesh products when they see the actual production methods, because the methods used are so incredibly terrible. Now my question to you is are you brave enough to witness the evidence for yourself?
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@ContaMuir17a: I do. Some places are bad, many are good, and some are great. Now when you say production, do you mean after they are killed? Because I remember Earthlings showing this. I'm sorry but I don't feel bad for an animal being chopped up AFTER it has died. Now what you likely mean is use of a piston gun and then what the videos show where they are allowed to bleed out. If they are alive they soon won't be; if they are dead it doesn't matter. You need blood, if it gushes you die faster.
BLHProductions 1 year ago
@BLHProductions Do you know how tiresome the B12 issue is? Again: The requirement for vitamin B12 is very low. Our bodies store between 2 and 5 micrograms of vitamin B12 and only excrete a very small fraction of this each day. If you stopped all B12 consumption it would take years to show deficiency. This means in order to meet our needs, we should take a daily vitamin B12 supplement of 5-10 micrograms or a weekly vitamin B12 supplement of 2000 micrograms.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@ContaMuir17a: Ah, so now we get to why vegans think their diet is so healthy. It takes years for them to become unhealthy. Also a lot of what plant eaters say is that eating meat is unnatural it is to eat meat. So while other primates eat meat, which takes vitamin supplements?
BLHProductions 1 year ago
@BLHProductions some primates eat excrement and I've never seen any wash their food. The naturally occurring microorganisms they ingest is where they get their B12. Lets be very clear that we are only talking about B12. The only reason we need to take B12 is because we wash our food before we eat it. This helps eliminate pesticides, and factory farm runoff-Fecal contamination which can kill us. Benefits of the meat industry at your service. Then there's Mad cow disease, avian and swine flu.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@BLHProductions The B12 in supplements is derived from micro organisms.Non-animal sources of Vitamin B12 include Red Star Vegetarian Support Formula or T-6635+ nutritional yeast (a little less than 1 Tablespoon supplies the adult RDA), and vitamin B12 fortified soy milk. Saccharomyces cerevisiae, is a food yeast which supplies B12, it is grown on a molasses solution, which comes as yellow flakes or powder. It has a cheesy taste.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@ContaMuir17a: Yeast is a microorganism. That's not vegan.
BLHProductions 1 year ago
@BLHProductions grow up.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@BLHProductions Yeast is a fungus, you know like mushrooms. I think you should do more research. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@BLHProductions Vegans can obtain B12 from a wide range of foods which have been fortified with the vitamin. These include certain yeast extracts, veggieburger mixes, breakfast cereals, vegetable margarines and soya milks. You should check the packaging to see which individual products are fortified with B12.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@BLHProductions The total amount of vitamin B12 stored in body is about 2,0005,000 µg in adults. Around 50% of this is stored in the liver. Approximately 0.1% of this is lost per day by secretions into the gut as not all these secretions are reabsorbed. Bile is the main form of B12 excretion, however, most of the B12 that is secreted in the bile is recycled via enterohepatic circulation.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@BLHProductions Due to the extremely efficient enterohepatic circulation of B12, the liver can store several years worth of vitamin B12; therefore, nutritional deficiency of this vitamin is rare. (Sorry about problem with units above.) The body stores between 2,000 and 5,000 micrograms (µg) of B12.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@BLHProductions Since you only mentioned B12 that is the only vitamin I am referring to here. However; again, there are NO nutrients found in meat that cannot be obtained from eating a wide variety of vegetable foods. None. Zero. Zip. Nadda. Zilch. Absolutely Every nutrient you need you can get from eating only plants. Where do you think those animals you eat get their nutrients? Right they get them from plants! So can you, and everyone else on the entire planet Earth! No exceptions!
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@ContaMuir17a @ContaMuir17a: I said it was one example. And although you say plants give you iron, you fail to maintain that meat does too. So if their are no nutrients found in meat that is not in plants then I could eat just meat and take pills for everything else right? Does that sound healthy? No, so why does a diet of plants and pills sound healthy? If you need help, you are doing something wrong.
BLHProductions 1 year ago
@BLHProductions Nothing is done wrong in the Vegan diet, if the food is grown 100% organically, and you don't wash and scrub all your food before you eat it you will not need any supplements. The reason we wash our food it to remove factory farm harmful bacteria, and pesticide residue. Yeast can also supply all B12. Go back and reread what I wrote here again. Our bodies are best suited to eating a well balanced whole food vegan diet that limits overly processed foods and excessive fats.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@BLHProductions please remember that all the B12 on the planet. And I do mean ALL of it. Is produced by microorganisms. Whether it obtained by secondary sources such as meat or by primary vegan sources like yeast, ALL of it is produced by microorganisms. Why wouldn't you choose the primary source instead? There are other vegan foods that supply B12. The issue is that they sometimes do not contain very much B12, because remember all the B12 on the planet comes from microorganisms. All of it.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@ContaMuir17a: Plants don't naturally have B12 in them. As you said it is from a microorganisms. Oh and why not both? Eat a hamburger, get it from the yeast in bread and a secondary source. A Liter of water and a microliter of water. What is better? The Liter, the microliter, or both? Both right? As long as the nutrient you are getting isn't poisonous at high levels more is better. Either it's saved or passed like Vitamin C is.
BLHProductions 1 year ago
@BLHProductions That is exactly wrong! The nutrient your body needs the most of is not contained in meat. What is this nutrient you ask? I'm glad you asked. It's carbohydrates. As discussed previously carbohydrates are the primary energy sources of all cells including humans. Through the Krebs cycle they are used to turn ADP into ATP, which is a cellular equivalent to a rechargeable battery. Atkins you say? That diet is the best ways to make yourself sick. You loose weight because of ketosis.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@ContaMuir17a: Ah, so a diet where I eat mostly meat and potatoes will be great correct? But you still forget the most important thing, healthy food is food that is most nutrient dense. So while plants will contain larger amounts of one nutrient then is in meat, meat still has more variety. Also your body breaks down everything, to an extent, into cell energy. You can do this with sugar and fat and get the same effect. The same can be said of veganism. Variation is the best.
BLHProductions 1 year ago
@ContaMuir17a: Where? Well like humans animals make nutrients that other animals don't make. Besides this they eat things like grass and other plants humans can't eat. Now it is true that we feed them grain, but this is either grain that is such low grade its unfit for human consumption or surplus.
BLHProductions 1 year ago
@BLHProductions On the contrary, We purposely grow billions and billions of bushels of grains to feed to factory farmed animals. It is grown intentionally. It is not surplus. This is land that could be growing food directly for people. If it was growing food for people we could feed many many more people than we possibly could feeding it to animals first. Additionally we use trillions of gallons to raise this grain and to water the animals. This is a major waste of resources. -- check the facts.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@BLHProductions The biochemistry of every cell on the planet requires either the consumption or production of sugar for its survival. That includes human beings. Sugars fuel the Krebs cycle which is what supplies the energy our cells need to do every biochemical function. While it is true the Krebs cycle can use amino acids or fats for fuel the process is much less inefficient. Sugar is not the enemy. We need sugars to survive. However complex carbohydrates are the best form of sugars to consume
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@ContaMuir17a should read: Much less efficient -- not: much less inefficient.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@BLHProductions . Do you really require someone to tell you that eating too many processed foods are bad for you? Eating a wide variety of whole vegetable foods in as close to their natural state as possible is the healthiest diet possible. The same with oils. Our bodies need some fat each day (about 30 g). If you eat lots of food like doughnuts and french fries you'll have problems but that is different. We need sugars and fats. Moderation is the key. Complex natural forms are best.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@BLHProductions Controlled Studies funded by the Department of Defense through Henry Jackson Foundation, National Institutes of Health, UCSF Specialized Program of Research Excellence, the Koch Foundation, Buchshaum Family Foundation, Highmark Inc., Fisher Foundation, Ellison Foundation, Gallin Foundation, Wynn Foundation, and the Walton Family Foundation
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@BLHProductions performed at the University of California, San Francisco directed by Dean Ornish, MD, clinical professor, and Peter Carrol, MD, chair of the Department of Urology, and late William Fair from the Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center have shown that vegetarian diets can reverse prostate cancer.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@BLHProductions There are numerous other studies and physicians who concur as well, including the China Study. Stop by and watch some of my Super Size Me play list if you think you can muster the maturity to have an open mind. Cancer is big business. Who do you think gets rich by people not knowing the truth? How powerful is the meat industry at suppressing this information?
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@BLHProductions There are studies which report, the following diseases can be prevented, reversed, and or eliminated by the adoption eating a whole foods strict vegetarian diet, which limits highly processed foods and excessive fats; obesity, hypertension, coronary heart disease, stroke, gall bladder disease, osteoarthritis, osteoporosis, sleep apnea, respiratory problems, endometrial breast colon & prostate cancers, dislipidemia, adult diabetes, steatohepatitis, asthma, hyperuracemia, diabetes
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@BLHProductions do you even want me to start telling you about the detrimental environmental impact that eating Meat, Fish, Eggs, Milk, Cheese, Pork has on our planet? How about how many dangerous diseases are spawned or spread through the massive confinement of factory farmed animals in relatively small areas? How about how much water we use for meat production? How about how many more people could be fed if we didn't feed so much to farmed animals? ALL the excuses meat eaters give are stupid.
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago
@BLHProductions I think you might be interested in watching my "The Real Truth About Protein" Play List as well. -- Any more questions?
ContaMuir17a 1 year ago