Everyone has always known that Christianity is a myth to induce people to act "morally". We now have free market capitalism to guide us morally. God knows where that is going to lead. I am a gay man. I have known many gay men. I was raised in a Christian house and taught to consider things carefully (AKA morally). My two friends who were both raised in atheist homes are dead. There is some logic in having a moral template by which to interprete ones own and others' actions.
I have a difficult time understanding why Dawkins spends so much time debating Christians. It seems a waste of time to me, except for the entertainment value, which is usually pretty low.
@kokopelli314 The answer is : First of all, I think he loves debates. The $ he gets from it probably helps too. Also, I'm pretty sure some people will/did realize how absurd religions are while listening to his debates.
@unexist001 True. The most concrete and timely arguments he makes concerns tax exemption status of religions and publicly funded religious education. I would like to see religious leaders pressed these points.
Well, I think it's safe to say that Dawkins wasted his time here. The guy was clearly a nice fellow, but he just wasn't asking the right questions, nor was he exploring the right places.
I've always brought up the point that God is all poweful AND all knowing, so if he created Adam and Eve he also created them with flaws and weaknesses, and knew the outcome being all knowing. EG he created original sin and owns the responsibility for it. In other words god set Adam and Eve up to fail by making them flawed and weak and putting a tree in paradice that shouldnt be eaten from. The whole thing is pretty obvious if you use a little logic and reason. I know those are bad words.
I would not fill any child's mind with what I just said. I would wait until the "child" was ready to learn about his choices in religion. I did not force anything down my son's throat and he is an agnostic. I am sorry to say but I was only sharing my own studies of religion. I do not know of "Poe's Law" To each his own I guess.
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Dawkins discusses the horribleness of Jesus death for us but does he realize the horribleness of sin itself? The death of Jesus was pre-arranged before Jesus was incarnated as a human being...ions before the earth was created. It was a back-up plan for humanity, if mankind chose to disobey-which Adam did. Otherwise, all mankind would have been destroyed. God would have had to start over again...but...Jesus wanted Us, not a new batch of beings. He loved and wanted US! Its really simple.
And if God is Omniscient than he knew before hand that Adam was going to betray him and knew before hand that Lucifer was going to tempt him and also knew before hand that all of this was going to occur. Jesus was not the back up, he WAS the plan if this story took place and it IS immoral and sick to plan such a heinous game.
@StargazingForJesus A big problem with that is that Adam and Eve never existed, therefore original sin never existed. Evolution has been proven, and there is zero evidence to suggest we migrated out of Mesopotamia (or Mount Ararat) 6000 to 4000 years ago. What the evidence does show is that we evolved from apes who walked upright and migrated out of Africa.
@StargazingForJesus I'm sorry but there's nothing beautiful or righteous about this belief system. What all-knowing powerful God would send a child to be torchered and sacrificed for the 'sins' of His (alleged) creation? Why couldn't God simply come from the heavens and stated His case and allowed the people the choice to choose him without a blood sacrifice? It's a real pity that you Christian can't see a clear Satanic and/or illuminati fact to this belief system!
Grooooan... Dawkins' opponent is not going to understand, does he?
God - omnipotent, including the ability to change the rules in any way he pleases. He could simply have said "The debt is forgiven, no sacrifice necessary" Instead, He sets a price, a sacrifice, for himself to forgive the debt. That sacrifice is of himself to himself.
Really drives the point home, that the many creators of Christianity did not think things through.
If you center your faith around one book with out seeing the history of how it was formed or the context of its teachings. EG the understanding of the writer at any particular time. With-out seeing also the missing books. The political and cultural needs, actual history over the period it was formed , the wre-writings, misinterpretations, other evidence or lack of evidence out side the bible. You will fall into a kind of irrational literalistic faith interpretation that has not
Adam was made perfect, so therefore must personify perfection.
Adam fucks up and deceives said God....
Conclusion: Adam was not made perfect, and since God is all knowing, ie knows everything beforehand.... God made him flawed therefore condemning him and us all on purpose.
@TheAtheistDebate Beautiful. You know this, I know this, it really is beautiful, simple, logic, but mention this to any creatard or Christard and all I get is "but, but, that's not what it meant", "you're interpreting it all wrong", "it's the old testament", then it all goes to shit. As my father says, "you can't talk sense to a fool."
@TheAtheistDebate but you see they get an out. If god makes Adam imperfect then that action was still perfect because god is ALWAYS perfect. God can't be imperfect by definition no matter how much contradiction happens because of it. Because of this rationalization they get an out.
@TheAtheistDebate You can't use logic to understand god stupid atheist!!! You have to use your magical heart juice! You must look deep inside your coronary arteries and only THEN will the it all be so clear to you!! Only THEN will the logical contradictions and nonsensical concepts be reconciled. You must repent now, because Jesus, "did it all for yoouuuuuuu."
@TheAtheistDebate And to add to that very excellent comment, how did Adam sin? He ate of knowledge. Therefore, somehow, Adam was perfect without having knowledge....
What the fuck?
Why are we even talking about this? How could some bronze age game of Dungeons and Dragons still be played today?
Why do people cling to this nonsensical, farcical superstition?
Now this, Richard, is much better than trying to show God doesn't exist. You are right here. Christian doctrine doesn't square with what Jesus said, or with the Old Testament, or with a belief in a creator God. But isn't it your straw man again.? You can't disprove God because of Christian doctrine. Most of the world isn't Christian but most still believe in a creator. Wakan Tanka???? Mitakuye Oyasin
@anniemaggie53 Richard Dawkins has never once... Ever. Ever tried to disprove god. He has debated the probability of and the evidence against a god existing. He knows any god is unfalsifiable.
You cant convince a person after a certain age... even with factual proof.. that everything they have ever know is false.........unless they are very open minded.
Thats why it is selfish to force religion on children. Let them discover it themselves... and then you will see what people truly beleive.
Because if God would just forgive us we would just forget about God. God sent his son Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ sacrificed his life, he died for our sins, until this day he is still acknowledged by Christians. he came to earth to declare Gods existence.
People say that if God existed that there would not be any war, hunger, sadness etc. It is our job to RESTORE PEACE AND ORDER in this world,
That's what i believe and i'm sure i speak for many God believing people.
@masonTganes yep God gave us life and he will take life from us.
Look even IF God didn't exists the bible is a great book, it teaches how to live a nice humble life, unlike atheism who only teaches how to disprove Christianity, IF i were to be an atheists i would be a fucking dick, i would just go around spiting on people in wheelchairs beating up people.
But because of God i'm happy living a nice humble life. One day I will die and i would be judge by God. and so does everyone.
@1775edde The humble life message is quite buried between all the teachings to murder people for doing just about anything humanly, but, spitting on people and beating them up? Aww. Which of many different sources do you want me to provide, showing that secular countries have less crime than religious ones? Maybe I'm wrong and that, buried under the misogyny and the homophobia and murder, there is a message to be humble. Religious countries aren't getting the message.
There really is no defense for Christian dogma. I grew up in that environment, so I know what I'm talking about. Christianity needs to move away from dogma and pursue a personal level of spirituality if it wants to continue existing.
@Mogley52 Because being a scientist and a creationist is paradoxical. Creationists do not use the scientific method as it does not apply to religion. The equation looks like this: Does not use scientific method=is not a scientist. Ergo, the scientists at ICR are living a lie.
God is just and he doesn't turn a blind eye on sin that's why mr Dawkins. Just like a good judge wouldn't turn a blind eye on crimes. A price had to be payed and God doesn't accept bribes ie our works no. He had to become the sacrifice. It's bluntly obvious there is a creator. Everything doesn't come from nothing Dawkins just hates God because he loves being in the position of power himself. Repent turn from sin and trust in Christ. Worthy is the lamb.
Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have succeeded at framing themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
"Dead-to-the-spirit deluded "God Delusion" author & blithering fool scientist goon Richard Dawkins another "leader" given to the profane masses is another useful idiot for Jesuit machinations"-C.O.
Jesuitical: pertaining to the Jesuits or their principals; designing; cunning; deceitful; prevaricating
The Jesuits completely altered the education system to suit their evolution agenda to discredit the Bible. They cant have a Satanic society of 'Do as Thou Wilt' if people still follow the Bible.
Or I should say, their logic is painfully stupid, especially whenever it is compared in real time to sound, secular logic and reasoning.
This poor sap can do nothing better than to resort to the aping quotations of scripture, but since he lacks the slickness possessed by professional bullshit artists (aka the clergy), his attempts at doing so are painfully pathetic and hard to watch.
If Adam was perfect and he failed what makes anyone believe that another "perfect" person wouldn't fail too, this guy is yapping pure sophisticated nonsense, typical christian circle talk, based on "feelings" and "my opinion" etc etc.....so no one can ever BE perfect....whooo these people have been spinning this nonsense for ever
The problem with debating theists like this is logic just does not sink in, they dont care about logic and reason. In the end there is no logic or good reason to believe any of it at all to accept any of the gods are true. Yet they believe, they believe in nothing for no reason other than they were brain washed as children and cant get over it
The reason Jesus had to die for our sins is because for a God to be completely JUST, which is the only kind of God worth knowing, he has to punish sins. And so Jesus lovingly takes that punishment for us. How could a God with a knowledge of right and wrong excuse wrong doing? In order for God to be perfectly just and perfectly loving, he had to punish sin, but saved us from it.
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DAWKINS, HITCHENS, AND HAWKING REFUSE TO DEBATE with creationists who are SCIENTISTS, such as the scientists at ICR, The Institute for Creation Research. They only debate non-scientist creationists. Read my popular Internet articles: HOW FORENSIC SCIENCE REFUTES ATHEISM, ANY LIFE ON MARS CAME FROM EARTH, and WAR AMONG EVOLUTIONISTS! MISSING LINKS THAT NEVER WERE!
@Mogley52 I agree. They think, they can argue non-scienctists as believing in fairytales, because they can't argue science. And if they try, they'll say your not a scienctist you simply don't understand. They would probably use some unecessary comments about their intelligence. Blame it on their belief or upbringing and then portray Christianity as abusive for raising children to know about God.
@vbirdieb Show us an entry in a science journal where a theory or premise has been introduced in favor of religion, that has past any peer review and has other scientists stumped. We've seen how religion take a crack at science. Usually it involves peanut butter jars disproving "evolution" and bananas being the atheist's worst nightmare.
ALTHOUGH I'M A CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN (Baptist), I no longer believe that the Bible teaches eternal torment. The Bible teaches eternal punishment, but it's not eternal torment. In my popular Internet article, TRADITIONAL DOCTRINE OF HELL EVOLVED FROM GREEK ROOTS, I explain how and why teaching of eternal torment entered early into Christianity and how Scriptures have been misinterpreted and taken out of context to support that teaching. ~Babu G. Ranganathan (B.A. theology/biology)
SCIENCE SHOWS THAT THE UNIVERSE, because of entropy, couldn't have sustained itself from all eternity. Einstein confirmed that space, matter, and time had a beginning! That beginning had to be supernatural because natural laws have no ability to bring the universe into existence from nothing. The supernatural cannot be proved by science but science points to a supernatural intelligence for the origin and order of the universe ~ HOW FORENSIC SCIENCE REFUTES ATHEISM (Article)
NATURAL LIMITS TO EVOLUTION: Only evolution within "kinds" is genetically possible (i.e. varieties of dogs, cats, etc.), but not evolution across "kinds" (i.e. from worm to human). How were species living and reproducing if their reproductive system and other vital organs hadn't evolved yet? Read my Pravda Internet article: WAR AMONG EVOLUTIONISTS! I discuss: Punctuated Equilibrium, "Junk DNA," genetics, mutations, natural selection, fossils, genetic/biological similarities between species.
Religious people can only refer to the Bible as evidence for God. The Bible has constantly been proved incorrect as science progresses. All religious people can do is regress and say that 'well God caused that'. Assuming God is immune to regress. If God created us, who/what created God? Simple, there is no God. Religion only exists through centuries of childhood indoctrination and superstitious fear.
Dawkins: "Jesus was ignorant to science as he lived in a time when science was undeveloped" Christian guy: "JESUS WAS NOT IGNORANT! JESUS WAS NOT IGNORANT!"
@thuglifenos there is nothing "pseduo intellectual" about destroying someone in an argument. it's hard to mask condescension when your viewpoint is factually superior
Topics: The Issue On The Criminal Liability Of Foretelling The END OF THE WORLD, Other Debated Issues, Terrorism, War, Law, Politics, Religion, Philosophy, Science, Others.
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See Figure 4, which is THE MEANING OF THE PYRAMID, at figure4etc.yolasite.com
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bible has over 300 inconsistencies and deep analysis revealed disconnected-ness between passages. Credibilty lost right there. Who and why changed, added and erased stories? Where is book of Enoch in bible?
Weak christian explanation. Gods test of Abraham was a test. he had no intention of having him kill his son and stopped him. This was a message to us all. Sacrificing a son to any god is detestable. God's test on Abraham was foreshadowing of what god actually did, he sacrificed his son to redeem the world.
Really listen to yourself all of u guys really think we can from a rock. Just turn to him his arms are open then u will know why people are Christians are what they are. Christianity teaches hope and that you are on this earth because you have a loving caring god. What you teach that we have know resin of being here it happened by accident when you just jump out of existent. So please I'll pray for you that you do find the truth and except him into your heart. God bless all of you
I'm so sick of hearing that "God gives us free will"! Ever since I was a kid I remember thinking "What free will do we have?" We can either do JUST as God has commanded OR we'll be sent to HELL if we don't. So what "free will" do we have? That's like me saying "Ok, I'm gonna give you a choice, You can either join me or jump of that bridge and die. You have free will, but the only logical choice would be to join me. Doesn't make sense.
this guy is stupid, if your god is suppose to be a loving god but choose to let humanity suffer because he was pissed off, then decide instead of forgive the humanity for the sin that he created by the death and scapegoating of jesus---when this god is suppose to be all powerful and could of forgive with a snap of his finger....then logically, this god is not all loving or compassionate.
this christian fool knows it, just his brainwashed into believing this crap...so he won't admit.
It's astonishing hearing a christian talking about and explaining the most ridiculous and childish stories he would instantly dismiss when a follower from any other religion would tell something along those lines.
Christianity is a death cult obsessed with human sacrifice. Sick stuff. Trying to reason with religious people is like trying to have an intelligent conversation with an insane person. Just listen to this guy spew nonsense.
Thats a very good question. I see it differently. I mean that with all sincerity. I think Dawkins starts to feel sorry for him and lets him off the hook a few times or possibly just gets bored with the guru like pseudo philosophical platitudes. I mean that with all sincerity.
2011 and humans are still afraid of the thunder god. Religion is created out of ignorance so its believers are the ignorant ones in society. Wake up ignorant people THERE IS NO GOD.
God is a perfect God. He has to be in order to be God.
We have killed God in the fabrication of this world whether we want to realize it or not. God gave His Son for us to kill Him. That is what happened when Adam and Eve sinned and word of the provision for sin was given. God has made our acts to be made manifest to us as us having killed God because it is in fact what we have done anyway by fabricating a lie. We have become an image that is not God. We have made the truth of God to be a lie.
@JungleJargon We didn't kill your god because gods are mad-made sky-daddies. PLUS, according to the bible, god is immortal so we couldn't possibly have kill him. This makes your rant incoherent and quite lame.
Obviously I've read the bible better than you since I am an anti-theist and you are repeating some sadomasochistic nonsense inculcated into your child-mind by some perverted freak.
@thruthem Inside of the fabrication of time and space, we can kill the truth and when God's Son was born into the fabrication of time and space we killed Him again just to make manifest the significance of what our actions are.
The function of hydrogen working inside of us shows that we have the same Maker as the entire universe made of hydrogen and derivatives.
@JungleJargon You're mixing desert myth and science. Hydrogen is not evidence of a maker, it is evidence that stars had to die so we may live, not some little desert god's son LOL, born to a virgin impregnated without her consent through her ear canal (according to Catholic doctrine). That's perverse on so many levels! Think about it!
@thruthem Lesser functions all have makers and lesser functions don't even compare to the function that hydrogen has inside of us powering motors that turn shafts that manufacture ATP so we can live.
You are trying to tell you Maker how to enter into time and space where we are and it was not without her consent in the first place.
@JungleJargon That's the potmaker-making-the-pot argument of an ancient desert dweller; who when asked by the children, 'where did we come from', knew nothing and could only pick up a handful of sand and say, 'gods made the first man from dirt'. Not by evidence but only by faith and the indoctrination of innocent children can such drivel persist, just as the demonstrably-false notion of irreducible complexity.
Forgiving someone "just to forgive him" isn't justice. If your family was murdered and the judge "just forgave him because it was in his power to do so" then that wouldn't be justice would it???
Dawkins thinks the fact that man is sinful and corrupt by nature is demeaning... well that's exactly the way the Bible states a fallen, prideful man would respond. The Gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing.
It's irrational for an atheist to try and rationalize why God does anything anyway.
Isn't beliveing in GOD safer than "NOT" believing at all ? Because if we are wrong...it's better than going unprepared isn't it ? You wouldn't take a long trip without having a way of getting fuel or food would you ? Having knowledge that by believing that it would be really bad to stick your hand or foot into a lawnmowers spinning blades verses just shoving it in and discovering that you shouldn't and regretting it afterwards.
@A1Goku that's know as pascals wage and it's the cowards way out , the bible clearly states salvation is by GRACE and not by choice if a atheist were to convert into Christianity simply cause of the arguing ''if you believe in god and you're wrong you loose nothing , but if don't believe in god and you're wrong you loose everything , so why not just believe?'' the atheist will STILL go to hell.Also they you put it I can simply say why don't you believe in allah just incase you're wrong ?
@winterstellar That's not great and it only proves further that you so-called "atheists" are just sucking the teat of (insert whichever snarky Brittish "atheist" is popular right now).
The Naturalistic Worldview creates far more philosophical problems than it could ever solve.
It loses the "who" and answers very few of the "whats" and "hows" but it completely fails to answer "WHY"
Why are we (human beings) here? Now I'm sure most of you are here to make fun of theists and play scientist.
@EverydayRevival Naturalism can and does answer the questions about our existence and why we exist. The real issue is whether you are personally satisfied with the answer or not. But to suppose that any answer given to this particular question MUST be satisfactory is quite frankly childish. The universe does not owe us an explanation that fits our personal and spiritual need. It simply exists and we just happen to exist in it. As far as I see it there is no greater meaning to all of this.
@Gigano1986 That is exactly the point.. but in reverse, of the truth. God exists and that's why, you're right it is childish to think the answer must be satisfactory within a naturalistic worldview.
@EverydayRevival That is not exactly the point, because you misunderstood. It is childish to assume that any answer to the question of our existence in any world-view (be it religious or naturalistic) has to be satisfactory. To me personally, neither naturalism nor religion provide a satisfactory reason for my existence. Yet I will accept that naturalistic answer, because that answer is implied by nature and the universe. My existence is circumstantial and not meaningful. Life's fun regardless.
@EverydayRevival We are here because water and amino acids happened to land here over hundreds of millions of years, setting off an evolution that has lasted some 4 billion years now. Oh, and because our parents didn't use birth control nine months before we were born. No talking snakes or holy virgins, I'm afraid..those are fairy-tales invented in the oh so primitive bronze-age/iron age. : )
@winterstellar See yourself "playing scientist"... Your "magical" concepts of water and amino acids "landing here" over hundreds of millions of years, "setting off" an evolution?! Spooky.
The idea that inanimate matter was acted upon (somehow) by other inanimate matter, and that somehow made something animate/living is much more of a Fairy-tale.
Do you go with the whole lightning happened to strike a mud puddle theory?
@EverydayRevival Check out J Craig Venter's work on creating life. He is the one who leads the team of scientists who were the first to make a functioning synthetic life-form. It's still breeding/replicating more than a year later, the life-form they made. Lots of videos on it, among others from CBS 60 minutes. No need for any god there either, and in the CBS interview he says he has no belief either:)
@winterstellar Craig Venter himself says that "this is not genesis" He's not creating life from scratch but creating different designs of chromosomes based on life as we know it now. Rewriting genetic code in a different sequence as it exists in nature isn't an answer for origin.
So honestly it still has absolutely nothing to do with the origin of life on Earth which was the basic ground of the question I previously asked.
A "life for a life" helps us to live together better and have respect for each other??? Yeah, sure, when you're scared shitless of some horrible punishment, you try like hell not to piss off the father figure...religion is disgusting.
Jesus wept when he saw what kind of morons was calling himself his followers. And he turned to his Father and said:
- You let me be tortured to save *that* bunch?!".
And God shrugged and spoke.
- I am as confused as you my Son... but they move in mysterious ways.
And Jesus said
- Look, let's settle this once and for all. I'll just go down there (again), lay out the facts, laugh and point at the atheists and be done with it. Simple!
The answer to Jesus is in Genesis? Theist logic is so funny. Always quoting (older) scripture to answer questions about (newer) scripture. If I were a writer who was tasked with writing a NEW Chapter, you best believe I would read the OLD Chapter for anything to use.
Wait, what? There is mention of a messiah in this OLD Chapter? Fuck! I'm gonna write about the damn messiah and flesh out this character!
God himself became an atheist after seeing this. I don't think I've ever seen anyone so ready to supply their own epic fail as this particular Christian.
@cablepanos Yes, it is pretty painful watching the Christian avoid any reasonable, honest discussion about the Bible. The fact that he could not possibly know practically anything he claims to know about the motives and implications of 'god's work' just makes the whole thin farce. Dawkins doesn't help though, by claiming Jesus was a god guy... Richard we know FUCK ALL about the character of Jesus! His identity is as ambiguous as Robin Hood's!
@53dumey Actualy...his message that I always get is think for yourself, look at the evidence. He has literally said these words in his talks and books.
@53dumey Right, and the pope isn't a "bitter old man looking for fame and cash".........Give me a break. If you are going to point at people trying to make a quick buck at the expense of the ignorant, then you have to stand in awe...in absolute awe of every single organized religion that has ever existed. Listen, I'm going to go and pray to Zeus that you get a clue about what you are talking about, peace.
@53dumey Agree nothing new about the points, but at the same time the points he makes are correct (as a note personally I really don't like Dawkins). It's a simple burden of proof though, you don't prove a negative (prove there is a lack of god), instead, what is needed is a proof of the positive, (there is a god). Until the positive claim that there is a god is proven true through testable, falsifiable and repeatable methods, we must take the default position that there is a lack of a god.
@53dumey "Theres nothing new about [Dawkins' arguments]."
I have the same attitude towards mathematics. I don't judge it by rigour or soundness, just the "best if used by" date. And, of course, with theism being so old...
I absolutely have to hit the sack. It's 2:33am here and my wife called me to bed long ago. I'll let you argue over Christianity versus islam vs atheism vs paganism vs whatever. My main point was to point out that as a Christian, I felt Dawkins has been doing us a great service by asking the tough questions that make us question many of the things we believe and have mistaken for Christianity. I'm Christian, but I like Dawkins frankly. Don't always agree, but I like the guy a lot.
I am a Christian but I find Dawkin's questions very good and the answers of many Christians not that good, to be painfully frank. I agree with Dawkin's feelings and thoughts about original sin. Justice demands that sin and righteousness be chosen. But, I disagree with Dawkins about forgiveness. If forgiveness comes without punishment, that makes a statement that sin is not that bad and God is not that concerned about our allegiance to Him and the well being of the universe. Sin has a cost.
@danieljdick If a criminal raped and murdered a loved one--say a daughter, wife, mother, and the judge just said, "forgiven" and let the criminal go, I imagine you'd be unhappy with that judge. With sin, we thwart or refuse to honor the authority of God. Granted Dawkins doesn't believe the Bible, but to explain the consistency of this belief in this philosophy with the Bible, the Bible claims God wrote His law on our hearts removing our opportunity to claim ignorance legitimately.
@danieljdick So that leaves us with infinite guilt on our hands. We cannot make up for it. And that we think some sins small proves we esteem God unimportant and unworthy of respect. But, to let us go forgiven would beg Satan to ask the question, "Why send me to hell for sin when you're letting them go free?" So then Satan must go free and Hitler and all the most dangerous criminals in the world to be consistent. I have a problem with that. Don't you? How best to deal with sin?
@danieljdick Here's the thing about God torturing His Son: He didn't. Jesus signed up for the sacrifice. He came, taught, paid the price, and God, the Father suffered to watch His Son suffer and die. But, being eternal with perfect memory and perfect anticipation, every member of the trinity paid the ultimate, eternal price as there would never be a time in all eternity where the intimate awareness of the crucifixion would be abated even slightly. God signed up for the pain.
"Please Richard, see my heart, not my intellect."
Because there no demonstration of the latter. Even he (the Christian) admits it!
cryhavocandletslip 2 weeks ago
Who's the Christian?
hbk1995 1 month ago
@hbk1995
"Who's the Christian?"
Who cares? They all sound the same to me.
MomoTheBellyDancer 1 month ago
It hurts me as a former christian (atheist now, of course) to see grown men that actually buy into this utter poison. It's very very sad.
LondonCAFC 1 month ago
i feel a little sorry for the religious fellow :(, hes soooo losing his debate.
iwkya1 2 months ago
@iwkya1 lol I do too.. but you can see he's a genuinely really nice guy. Much nicer than I am.
chroNick546 1 month ago
Oh wait sry I think you were joking right?
kyekire 2 months ago
@TatsujinSan if u can't use logic to understand it then its not real
kyekire 2 months ago
There is no end to the human excuses made for the gods of the bible.
brucegrenehan1 2 months ago
Everyone has always known that Christianity is a myth to induce people to act "morally". We now have free market capitalism to guide us morally. God knows where that is going to lead. I am a gay man. I have known many gay men. I was raised in a Christian house and taught to consider things carefully (AKA morally). My two friends who were both raised in atheist homes are dead. There is some logic in having a moral template by which to interprete ones own and others' actions.
RayL1983 2 months ago
To sum up. Be ashamed of being human!
FreeeeS 2 months ago
I am not a christian but what I can clearly see is that dawkins is judgeing the times of the ancient as if he is comparing today and then.
hudfadz 2 months ago
@hudfadz then why would ancient myths have any revelance in this age?
FreeeeS 2 months ago
if the bibles real gods a bit of a cunt
ViolentKeesh 2 months ago
Fyi we didn't evolve from apes. We shared a common ancestor. When we spit our ancestors become us and apes ancestors became apes
bjgallardo 2 months ago
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@bjgallardo
"Fyi we didn't evolve from apes. We shared a common ancestor. When we spit our ancestors become us and apes ancestors became apes"
lol, so flawed.
We are as much apes as the chimps are, just a different variety.
types10000 2 months ago
Conclusion
God is a troll
robloxplox 2 months ago
Religion is a cancer upon humanity.
theatheistroundtable[.]com
mikefromwa 3 months ago 2
can you say "simpleton"?
geetarjohn 3 months ago
I have a difficult time understanding why Dawkins spends so much time debating Christians. It seems a waste of time to me, except for the entertainment value, which is usually pretty low.
kokopelli314 4 months ago
@kokopelli314 The answer is : First of all, I think he loves debates. The $ he gets from it probably helps too. Also, I'm pretty sure some people will/did realize how absurd religions are while listening to his debates.
unexist001 4 months ago
@unexist001 True. The most concrete and timely arguments he makes concerns tax exemption status of religions and publicly funded religious education. I would like to see religious leaders pressed these points.
kokopelli314 3 months ago
Well, I think it's safe to say that Dawkins wasted his time here. The guy was clearly a nice fellow, but he just wasn't asking the right questions, nor was he exploring the right places.
Weraisethenerdyflag 4 months ago
I've always brought up the point that God is all poweful AND all knowing, so if he created Adam and Eve he also created them with flaws and weaknesses, and knew the outcome being all knowing. EG he created original sin and owns the responsibility for it. In other words god set Adam and Eve up to fail by making them flawed and weak and putting a tree in paradice that shouldnt be eaten from. The whole thing is pretty obvious if you use a little logic and reason. I know those are bad words.
SaintKines 4 months ago
I would not fill any child's mind with what I just said. I would wait until the "child" was ready to learn about his choices in religion. I did not force anything down my son's throat and he is an agnostic. I am sorry to say but I was only sharing my own studies of religion. I do not know of "Poe's Law" To each his own I guess.
StargazingForJesus 4 months ago
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Dawkins discusses the horribleness of Jesus death for us but does he realize the horribleness of sin itself? The death of Jesus was pre-arranged before Jesus was incarnated as a human being...ions before the earth was created. It was a back-up plan for humanity, if mankind chose to disobey-which Adam did. Otherwise, all mankind would have been destroyed. God would have had to start over again...but...Jesus wanted Us, not a new batch of beings. He loved and wanted US! Its really simple.
StargazingForJesus 4 months ago
@StargazingForJesus Wow! If I didn't know better I'd call Poe's Law.
What sane person could fill a child's mind with such filth?
thruthem 4 months ago 21
@StargazingForJesus
And if God is Omniscient than he knew before hand that Adam was going to betray him and knew before hand that Lucifer was going to tempt him and also knew before hand that all of this was going to occur. Jesus was not the back up, he WAS the plan if this story took place and it IS immoral and sick to plan such a heinous game.
elvebrothergenju 4 months ago
@StargazingForJesus A big problem with that is that Adam and Eve never existed, therefore original sin never existed. Evolution has been proven, and there is zero evidence to suggest we migrated out of Mesopotamia (or Mount Ararat) 6000 to 4000 years ago. What the evidence does show is that we evolved from apes who walked upright and migrated out of Africa.
BackwardAssassin 3 months ago
@StargazingForJesus Makes me wonder why we ever needed Shakespeare. This shit is gold!
CookieWalka 3 months ago
@StargazingForJesus I'm sorry but there's nothing beautiful or righteous about this belief system. What all-knowing powerful God would send a child to be torchered and sacrificed for the 'sins' of His (alleged) creation? Why couldn't God simply come from the heavens and stated His case and allowed the people the choice to choose him without a blood sacrifice? It's a real pity that you Christian can't see a clear Satanic and/or illuminati fact to this belief system!
Stardomchild 3 weeks ago in playlist More videos from thruthem
Grooooan... Dawkins' opponent is not going to understand, does he?
God - omnipotent, including the ability to change the rules in any way he pleases. He could simply have said "The debt is forgiven, no sacrifice necessary" Instead, He sets a price, a sacrifice, for himself to forgive the debt. That sacrifice is of himself to himself.
Really drives the point home, that the many creators of Christianity did not think things through.
StrikaAmaru 4 months ago
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Atheists believe that objects made them what they are.
Evolution is an absolute disgrace to science.
Objects never order anything, mutations never order anything and natural selection will only select what has already been ordered.
Evolution is so irrational that it should be removed from all classrooms.
watch?v=HoKVVYJ8KJM
JungleJargon 4 months ago
nothing to do with reality.
MrPincoNico 4 months ago
If you center your faith around one book with out seeing the history of how it was formed or the context of its teachings. EG the understanding of the writer at any particular time. With-out seeing also the missing books. The political and cultural needs, actual history over the period it was formed , the wre-writings, misinterpretations, other evidence or lack of evidence out side the bible. You will fall into a kind of irrational literalistic faith interpretation that has not
MrPincoNico 4 months ago
The more you here religious rubbish out loud the more it sounds utter bollocks.
dilwich123 4 months ago
It's like Dawkins is debating a 6 year old.
bkirk1979 4 months ago
Let's weigh some things out shall we....
Adam was made perfect, so therefore must personify perfection.
Adam fucks up and deceives said God....
Conclusion: Adam was not made perfect, and since God is all knowing, ie knows everything beforehand.... God made him flawed therefore condemning him and us all on purpose.
It's fictitious
TheAtheistDebate 4 months ago 34
@TheAtheistDebate Beautiful. You know this, I know this, it really is beautiful, simple, logic, but mention this to any creatard or Christard and all I get is "but, but, that's not what it meant", "you're interpreting it all wrong", "it's the old testament", then it all goes to shit. As my father says, "you can't talk sense to a fool."
thejacalofskaro74 4 months ago
@TheAtheistDebate but you see they get an out. If god makes Adam imperfect then that action was still perfect because god is ALWAYS perfect. God can't be imperfect by definition no matter how much contradiction happens because of it. Because of this rationalization they get an out.
thor123422 4 months ago
@TheAtheistDebate You can't use logic to understand god stupid atheist!!! You have to use your magical heart juice! You must look deep inside your coronary arteries and only THEN will the it all be so clear to you!! Only THEN will the logical contradictions and nonsensical concepts be reconciled. You must repent now, because Jesus, "did it all for yoouuuuuuu."
TatsujinSan 3 months ago
@TatsujinSan Absolutely an awesome comment. You are EXACTLY right.
hairyreasoner 3 months ago
@TheAtheistDebate And to add to that very excellent comment, how did Adam sin? He ate of knowledge. Therefore, somehow, Adam was perfect without having knowledge....
What the fuck?
Why are we even talking about this? How could some bronze age game of Dungeons and Dragons still be played today?
Why do people cling to this nonsensical, farcical superstition?
hairyreasoner 3 months ago 2
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katiemiaana 3 months ago
@TheAtheistDebate He was made perfect, in the physical sense. He couldn't control his mental state right away.
mark51397 2 months ago
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@TheAtheistDebate He was made perfect, in the physical sense. He couldn't control his mental state right away.
mark51397 2 months ago
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@TheAtheistDebate He was made perfect, in the physical sense. He couldn't control his mental state right away.
mark51397 2 months ago
Now this, Richard, is much better than trying to show God doesn't exist. You are right here. Christian doctrine doesn't square with what Jesus said, or with the Old Testament, or with a belief in a creator God. But isn't it your straw man again.? You can't disprove God because of Christian doctrine. Most of the world isn't Christian but most still believe in a creator. Wakan Tanka???? Mitakuye Oyasin
anniemaggie53 4 months ago
@anniemaggie53 Richard Dawkins has never once... Ever. Ever tried to disprove god. He has debated the probability of and the evidence against a god existing. He knows any god is unfalsifiable.
Arcexey 4 months ago
By Zeus me thinks the bald guy is delusional.
You cant convince a person after a certain age... even with factual proof.. that everything they have ever know is false.........unless they are very open minded.
Thats why it is selfish to force religion on children. Let them discover it themselves... and then you will see what people truly beleive.
masonTganes 4 months ago
Richard Dawkins please stop calling your self a scientist until you stop your prejudice you moron
fr1695 4 months ago
Because if God would just forgive us we would just forget about God. God sent his son Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ sacrificed his life, he died for our sins, until this day he is still acknowledged by Christians. he came to earth to declare Gods existence.
People say that if God existed that there would not be any war, hunger, sadness etc. It is our job to RESTORE PEACE AND ORDER in this world,
That's what i believe and i'm sure i speak for many God believing people.
1775edde 4 months ago
@1775edde OK if your beleifs make you a possitive , fair, and kind person in life--- than more power to you.
But if you are saying that we are on our own.... than what is the point at worshiping an entity that neither gives or takes away anything
IF god does not take life... than he certainly does not give it.
And if god takes life.... then how dare he take the lives of the inocents that are horribly taken .
masonTganes 4 months ago
@masonTganes yep God gave us life and he will take life from us.
Look even IF God didn't exists the bible is a great book, it teaches how to live a nice humble life, unlike atheism who only teaches how to disprove Christianity, IF i were to be an atheists i would be a fucking dick, i would just go around spiting on people in wheelchairs beating up people.
But because of God i'm happy living a nice humble life. One day I will die and i would be judge by God. and so does everyone.
1775edde 4 months ago
@1775edde The humble life message is quite buried between all the teachings to murder people for doing just about anything humanly, but, spitting on people and beating them up? Aww. Which of many different sources do you want me to provide, showing that secular countries have less crime than religious ones? Maybe I'm wrong and that, buried under the misogyny and the homophobia and murder, there is a message to be humble. Religious countries aren't getting the message.
Arcexey 4 months ago
@Arcexey God gave us Free Will. In the Bible is very clear that murder is a sin. That people go around commiting murder is their choice not God's.
1775edde 4 months ago
There really is no defense for Christian dogma. I grew up in that environment, so I know what I'm talking about. Christianity needs to move away from dogma and pursue a personal level of spirituality if it wants to continue existing.
craighartonline 4 months ago
@Mogley52 Because being a scientist and a creationist is paradoxical. Creationists do not use the scientific method as it does not apply to religion. The equation looks like this: Does not use scientific method=is not a scientist. Ergo, the scientists at ICR are living a lie.
2494capn 4 months ago
Give up Richard, you are just wasting you time with ignorant, misguided people who can not see things rationally.
ACCSESS247 4 months ago
God is just and he doesn't turn a blind eye on sin that's why mr Dawkins. Just like a good judge wouldn't turn a blind eye on crimes. A price had to be payed and God doesn't accept bribes ie our works no. He had to become the sacrifice. It's bluntly obvious there is a creator. Everything doesn't come from nothing Dawkins just hates God because he loves being in the position of power himself. Repent turn from sin and trust in Christ. Worthy is the lamb.
mamainmancj 4 months ago
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lightandbeautiful 4 months ago
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"Dead-to-the-spirit deluded "God Delusion" author & blithering fool scientist goon Richard Dawkins another "leader" given to the profane masses is another useful idiot for Jesuit machinations"-C.O.
Jesuitical: pertaining to the Jesuits or their principals; designing; cunning; deceitful; prevaricating
The Jesuits completely altered the education system to suit their evolution agenda to discredit the Bible. They cant have a Satanic society of 'Do as Thou Wilt' if people still follow the Bible.
SpencerBenedict2nd 5 months ago
5:40 sums up this video very nicely.
Also, I'm alone in my room playing games to this guy's argument. Each time he says "Well that's a very good question, Richard." I take a drink.
SeedsOfHatred 5 months ago
Just like the speed of light, evolution will be found to be bullshit. If you dont believe that, you do not respect science.
BeatleEDs 5 months ago
the fuck did i just watch. now i know why he doesnt debate creationists
gingaaa1 5 months ago
You can't free fools from chains they revere.
anpj2006 5 months ago
@anpj2006 That's bumper sticker material right there.
SeedsOfHatred 5 months ago
Theists are painfully stupid.
Or I should say, their logic is painfully stupid, especially whenever it is compared in real time to sound, secular logic and reasoning.
This poor sap can do nothing better than to resort to the aping quotations of scripture, but since he lacks the slickness possessed by professional bullshit artists (aka the clergy), his attempts at doing so are painfully pathetic and hard to watch.
I feel bad for the guy!
The stupid, it hurts...
LetReasonPrevail1 5 months ago
If Adam was perfect and he failed what makes anyone believe that another "perfect" person wouldn't fail too, this guy is yapping pure sophisticated nonsense, typical christian circle talk, based on "feelings" and "my opinion" etc etc.....so no one can ever BE perfect....whooo these people have been spinning this nonsense for ever
kahluaqueen 6 months ago
The problem with debating theists like this is logic just does not sink in, they dont care about logic and reason. In the end there is no logic or good reason to believe any of it at all to accept any of the gods are true. Yet they believe, they believe in nothing for no reason other than they were brain washed as children and cant get over it
peterb1968 6 months ago
The reason Jesus had to die for our sins is because for a God to be completely JUST, which is the only kind of God worth knowing, he has to punish sins. And so Jesus lovingly takes that punishment for us. How could a God with a knowledge of right and wrong excuse wrong doing? In order for God to be perfectly just and perfectly loving, he had to punish sin, but saved us from it.
INITFORTHEPUSSY 6 months ago
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DAWKINS, HITCHENS, AND HAWKING REFUSE TO DEBATE with creationists who are SCIENTISTS, such as the scientists at ICR, The Institute for Creation Research. They only debate non-scientist creationists. Read my popular Internet articles: HOW FORENSIC SCIENCE REFUTES ATHEISM, ANY LIFE ON MARS CAME FROM EARTH, and WAR AMONG EVOLUTIONISTS! MISSING LINKS THAT NEVER WERE!
Mogley52 6 months ago
@Mogley52 LOL
thruthem 6 months ago 47
@Mogley52 "with creationists who are SCIENTISTS, such as the scientists at ICR, The Institute for Creation Research"
LOL sound like anyone can call themselves a "scientist" these days.
what a joke the instutue for creation reserach... and I though the creation musuem was bad enought
badpanda84 6 months ago
@Mogley52 lmao ICR. gtfo
BladedArrowTBGamer 6 months ago
@Mogley52 Maybe that's because no scientists are stupid enough to believe in a god.
pimpflea 6 months ago
There is no such thing as a creationist scientist. To believe in creationism, is to discount the whole of many different disciplines of science.
justinsgil185 5 months ago
@Mogley52 I agree. They think, they can argue non-scienctists as believing in fairytales, because they can't argue science. And if they try, they'll say your not a scienctist you simply don't understand. They would probably use some unecessary comments about their intelligence. Blame it on their belief or upbringing and then portray Christianity as abusive for raising children to know about God.
vbirdieb 4 months ago
@vbirdieb Show us an entry in a science journal where a theory or premise has been introduced in favor of religion, that has past any peer review and has other scientists stumped. We've seen how religion take a crack at science. Usually it involves peanut butter jars disproving "evolution" and bananas being the atheist's worst nightmare.
Arcexey 4 months ago
@Mogley52 Twat.
thejacalofskaro74 4 months ago
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ALTHOUGH I'M A CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN (Baptist), I no longer believe that the Bible teaches eternal torment. The Bible teaches eternal punishment, but it's not eternal torment. In my popular Internet article, TRADITIONAL DOCTRINE OF HELL EVOLVED FROM GREEK ROOTS, I explain how and why teaching of eternal torment entered early into Christianity and how Scriptures have been misinterpreted and taken out of context to support that teaching. ~Babu G. Ranganathan (B.A. theology/biology)
Mogley52 6 months ago
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SCIENCE SHOWS THAT THE UNIVERSE, because of entropy, couldn't have sustained itself from all eternity. Einstein confirmed that space, matter, and time had a beginning! That beginning had to be supernatural because natural laws have no ability to bring the universe into existence from nothing. The supernatural cannot be proved by science but science points to a supernatural intelligence for the origin and order of the universe ~ HOW FORENSIC SCIENCE REFUTES ATHEISM (Article)
Mogley52 6 months ago
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NATURAL LIMITS TO EVOLUTION: Only evolution within "kinds" is genetically possible (i.e. varieties of dogs, cats, etc.), but not evolution across "kinds" (i.e. from worm to human). How were species living and reproducing if their reproductive system and other vital organs hadn't evolved yet? Read my Pravda Internet article: WAR AMONG EVOLUTIONISTS! I discuss: Punctuated Equilibrium, "Junk DNA," genetics, mutations, natural selection, fossils, genetic/biological similarities between species.
Mogley52 6 months ago
Religious people can only refer to the Bible as evidence for God. The Bible has constantly been proved incorrect as science progresses. All religious people can do is regress and say that 'well God caused that'. Assuming God is immune to regress. If God created us, who/what created God? Simple, there is no God. Religion only exists through centuries of childhood indoctrination and superstitious fear.
23RMD 6 months ago
this comment made me think..."I'm so sick of hearing that "God gives us free will"! Ever since I was a kid I remember thinking
"What free will do we have?" We can either do JUST as? God has commanded OR we'll be sent to HELL if we don't.
So what "free will" do we have? That's like me saying "Ok, I'm gonna give you a choice, You can either join me
or jump of that bridge and die. You have free will, but the only logical choice would be to join me. Doesn't make
sense."
MrSjAsPeRwHiTlOc1000 6 months ago
i love this guy :D
MrSjAsPeRwHiTlOc1000 6 months ago
Dawkins: "Jesus was ignorant to science as he lived in a time when science was undeveloped" Christian guy: "JESUS WAS NOT IGNORANT! JESUS WAS NOT IGNORANT!"
NigerianHacker6 6 months ago
Halfway through, I had to stop watching. I felt too bad for the Christian guy.
ChangingTheSpectrum 6 months ago
There is no god. Full fucking stop.
smartpeoplewillagree 6 months ago
"The God that he is [in essence, killed his son instead of just forgiving him]..."
YEAH MORALE!!! WOOOOOHHHOOHOHOOOOO XD
StormHornet56 6 months ago
I don't really care what others believe but I just can't stand condescending pseudo intellectuals like Dawkins.
thuglifenos 6 months ago
@thuglifenos exactly what Dawkins said that made you angry? i find him ok, and i'm a theist.
Casshyr 6 months ago
@thuglifenos there is nothing "pseduo intellectual" about destroying someone in an argument. it's hard to mask condescension when your viewpoint is factually superior
NigerianHacker6 6 months ago
Okay, really interesting debate. Is that break in the screens between the DNA strands driving anyone else absolutely insane?
theonlyguyontheleft 6 months ago
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TheServiceWeb 6 months ago
"Thats a very good question." I'm surprised that he is able to admit that he has been challenged
3xxiled 6 months ago
bible has over 300 inconsistencies and deep analysis revealed disconnected-ness between passages. Credibilty lost right there. Who and why changed, added and erased stories? Where is book of Enoch in bible?
symmetry08 6 months ago
Weak christian explanation. Gods test of Abraham was a test. he had no intention of having him kill his son and stopped him. This was a message to us all. Sacrificing a son to any god is detestable. God's test on Abraham was foreshadowing of what god actually did, he sacrificed his son to redeem the world.
lack76 7 months ago
Really listen to yourself all of u guys really think we can from a rock. Just turn to him his arms are open then u will know why people are Christians are what they are. Christianity teaches hope and that you are on this earth because you have a loving caring god. What you teach that we have know resin of being here it happened by accident when you just jump out of existent. So please I'll pray for you that you do find the truth and except him into your heart. God bless all of you
GodisGreat44125 7 months ago
some people wrote a story n all these humans follow it 2000 years later LoL
lourencosf 7 months ago
Dawkins rules...
malverttoffle 7 months ago
dawkins don't you realize you're adam, being disobedient but atleast you have the knowledge to repent through Christ.
NorthNorth2009 7 months ago
@NorthNorth2009 Obvious troll is obvious.
Insabanua 7 months ago
@Insabanua I guess I'm a dawkins troll; did you read some of the comments below? no very professional.
NorthNorth2009 7 months ago
5:22 "Well Paul invented it so he would." Priceless!
Why oh why do these people quote scripture constantly? Do they have empty resonating space where their cerebrum should have been?
HellRehab 7 months ago
I'm so sick of hearing that "God gives us free will"! Ever since I was a kid I remember thinking "What free will do we have?" We can either do JUST as God has commanded OR we'll be sent to HELL if we don't. So what "free will" do we have? That's like me saying "Ok, I'm gonna give you a choice, You can either join me or jump of that bridge and die. You have free will, but the only logical choice would be to join me. Doesn't make sense.
keto6789 7 months ago
this guy is stupid, if your god is suppose to be a loving god but choose to let humanity suffer because he was pissed off, then decide instead of forgive the humanity for the sin that he created by the death and scapegoating of jesus---when this god is suppose to be all powerful and could of forgive with a snap of his finger....then logically, this god is not all loving or compassionate.
this christian fool knows it, just his brainwashed into believing this crap...so he won't admit.
galerouth 8 months ago
God had compassion?? with whom? if the bible is truth not even with his own son!
Sorry to say but my morals are higher than those of that tale!
DrErkencho 8 months ago
It's astonishing hearing a christian talking about and explaining the most ridiculous and childish stories he would instantly dismiss when a follower from any other religion would tell something along those lines.
TerryStoneNL 8 months ago
Just goes to show how perverse Christianity is. And the notion of "perfection"...pppft.
You see, to impress people to do the right thing you have to torture the fuck out of someone first.
jemborg 8 months ago
This is painful to watch....Dawkins 1, Christians 0
TheRobsterUK 8 months ago
6:38 Dawkins gone Hitchslapping!
gspahr 8 months ago
Christianity is a death cult obsessed with human sacrifice. Sick stuff. Trying to reason with religious people is like trying to have an intelligent conversation with an insane person. Just listen to this guy spew nonsense.
AirplaneRider 8 months ago
Thats a very good question. I see it differently. I mean that with all sincerity. I think Dawkins starts to feel sorry for him and lets him off the hook a few times or possibly just gets bored with the guru like pseudo philosophical platitudes. I mean that with all sincerity.
strangetranceoffaith 8 months ago
"That's a very good question: I' m not going to answer it though because you're totally right."
shagoosty 8 months ago
2011 and humans are still afraid of the thunder god. Religion is created out of ignorance so its believers are the ignorant ones in society. Wake up ignorant people THERE IS NO GOD.
ttopperr 8 months ago
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@53dumey
same as Christians..
chesster423 8 months ago
God is a perfect God. He has to be in order to be God.
We have killed God in the fabrication of this world whether we want to realize it or not. God gave His Son for us to kill Him. That is what happened when Adam and Eve sinned and word of the provision for sin was given. God has made our acts to be made manifest to us as us having killed God because it is in fact what we have done anyway by fabricating a lie. We have become an image that is not God. We have made the truth of God to be a lie.
JungleJargon 8 months ago
@JungleJargon Bro, I think you might be infected - You're sputtering gibberish like a crazy dude selling pencils on the corner.
thruthem 8 months ago 6
@thruthem ...and you are not saying anything of substannce. You also must never have read the Bible.
JungleJargon 8 months ago
@JungleJargon We didn't kill your god because gods are mad-made sky-daddies. PLUS, according to the bible, god is immortal so we couldn't possibly have kill him. This makes your rant incoherent and quite lame.
Obviously I've read the bible better than you since I am an anti-theist and you are repeating some sadomasochistic nonsense inculcated into your child-mind by some perverted freak.
thruthem 8 months ago
@thruthem Inside of the fabrication of time and space, we can kill the truth and when God's Son was born into the fabrication of time and space we killed Him again just to make manifest the significance of what our actions are.
The function of hydrogen working inside of us shows that we have the same Maker as the entire universe made of hydrogen and derivatives.
JungleJargon 8 months ago
@JungleJargon You're mixing desert myth and science. Hydrogen is not evidence of a maker, it is evidence that stars had to die so we may live, not some little desert god's son LOL, born to a virgin impregnated without her consent through her ear canal (according to Catholic doctrine). That's perverse on so many levels! Think about it!
thruthem 8 months ago
@thruthem Lesser functions all have makers and lesser functions don't even compare to the function that hydrogen has inside of us powering motors that turn shafts that manufacture ATP so we can live.
You are trying to tell you Maker how to enter into time and space where we are and it was not without her consent in the first place.
JungleJargon 8 months ago
@JungleJargon That's the potmaker-making-the-pot argument of an ancient desert dweller; who when asked by the children, 'where did we come from', knew nothing and could only pick up a handful of sand and say, 'gods made the first man from dirt'. Not by evidence but only by faith and the indoctrination of innocent children can such drivel persist, just as the demonstrably-false notion of irreducible complexity.
thruthem 8 months ago
Forgiving someone "just to forgive him" isn't justice. If your family was murdered and the judge "just forgave him because it was in his power to do so" then that wouldn't be justice would it???
Dawkins thinks the fact that man is sinful and corrupt by nature is demeaning... well that's exactly the way the Bible states a fallen, prideful man would respond. The Gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing.
It's irrational for an atheist to try and rationalize why God does anything anyway.
EverydayRevival 8 months ago
Religious apologists are funny. They seem perplexed if someone doesn't accept their arguments, despite the fact that they're irrational.
YY4Me133 8 months ago
Isn't beliveing in GOD safer than "NOT" believing at all ? Because if we are wrong...it's better than going unprepared isn't it ? You wouldn't take a long trip without having a way of getting fuel or food would you ? Having knowledge that by believing that it would be really bad to stick your hand or foot into a lawnmowers spinning blades verses just shoving it in and discovering that you shouldn't and regretting it afterwards.
A1Goku 8 months ago
@A1Goku that's know as pascals wage and it's the cowards way out , the bible clearly states salvation is by GRACE and not by choice if a atheist were to convert into Christianity simply cause of the arguing ''if you believe in god and you're wrong you loose nothing , but if don't believe in god and you're wrong you loose everything , so why not just believe?'' the atheist will STILL go to hell.Also they you put it I can simply say why don't you believe in allah just incase you're wrong ?
migueldELLO 8 months ago
Hehe, "even God himself became an atheist after seeing this"..that's great! : )
winterstellar 8 months ago
@winterstellar That's not great and it only proves further that you so-called "atheists" are just sucking the teat of (insert whichever snarky Brittish "atheist" is popular right now).
The Naturalistic Worldview creates far more philosophical problems than it could ever solve.
It loses the "who" and answers very few of the "whats" and "hows" but it completely fails to answer "WHY"
Why are we (human beings) here? Now I'm sure most of you are here to make fun of theists and play scientist.
EverydayRevival 8 months ago
@EverydayRevival Naturalism can and does answer the questions about our existence and why we exist. The real issue is whether you are personally satisfied with the answer or not. But to suppose that any answer given to this particular question MUST be satisfactory is quite frankly childish. The universe does not owe us an explanation that fits our personal and spiritual need. It simply exists and we just happen to exist in it. As far as I see it there is no greater meaning to all of this.
Gigano1986 8 months ago
@Gigano1986 That is exactly the point.. but in reverse, of the truth. God exists and that's why, you're right it is childish to think the answer must be satisfactory within a naturalistic worldview.
EverydayRevival 8 months ago
@EverydayRevival That is not exactly the point, because you misunderstood. It is childish to assume that any answer to the question of our existence in any world-view (be it religious or naturalistic) has to be satisfactory. To me personally, neither naturalism nor religion provide a satisfactory reason for my existence. Yet I will accept that naturalistic answer, because that answer is implied by nature and the universe. My existence is circumstantial and not meaningful. Life's fun regardless.
Gigano1986 8 months ago
@EverydayRevival We are here because water and amino acids happened to land here over hundreds of millions of years, setting off an evolution that has lasted some 4 billion years now. Oh, and because our parents didn't use birth control nine months before we were born. No talking snakes or holy virgins, I'm afraid..those are fairy-tales invented in the oh so primitive bronze-age/iron age. : )
winterstellar 7 months ago
@winterstellar See yourself "playing scientist"... Your "magical" concepts of water and amino acids "landing here" over hundreds of millions of years, "setting off" an evolution?! Spooky.
The idea that inanimate matter was acted upon (somehow) by other inanimate matter, and that somehow made something animate/living is much more of a Fairy-tale.
Do you go with the whole lightning happened to strike a mud puddle theory?
What made nonliving things living???
EverydayRevival 7 months ago
@EverydayRevival Check out J Craig Venter's work on creating life. He is the one who leads the team of scientists who were the first to make a functioning synthetic life-form. It's still breeding/replicating more than a year later, the life-form they made. Lots of videos on it, among others from CBS 60 minutes. No need for any god there either, and in the CBS interview he says he has no belief either:)
winterstellar 7 months ago
@winterstellar Craig Venter himself says that "this is not genesis" He's not creating life from scratch but creating different designs of chromosomes based on life as we know it now. Rewriting genetic code in a different sequence as it exists in nature isn't an answer for origin.
So honestly it still has absolutely nothing to do with the origin of life on Earth which was the basic ground of the question I previously asked.
God Bless Craig Venter and his work.
EverydayRevival 7 months ago
A "life for a life" helps us to live together better and have respect for each other??? Yeah, sure, when you're scared shitless of some horrible punishment, you try like hell not to piss off the father figure...religion is disgusting.
jerico641 8 months ago
Jesus wept when he saw what kind of morons was calling himself his followers. And he turned to his Father and said:
- You let me be tortured to save *that* bunch?!".
And God shrugged and spoke.
- I am as confused as you my Son... but they move in mysterious ways.
And Jesus said
- Look, let's settle this once and for all. I'll just go down there (again), lay out the facts, laugh and point at the atheists and be done with it. Simple!
And God said.
- No.
And Jesus headdesked.
mkarnerfors 8 months ago
Dawkins has met his match! David Lane Craig will be a walk over after this.
bambamgo98 8 months ago
The answer to Jesus is in Genesis? Theist logic is so funny. Always quoting (older) scripture to answer questions about (newer) scripture. If I were a writer who was tasked with writing a NEW Chapter, you best believe I would read the OLD Chapter for anything to use.
Wait, what? There is mention of a messiah in this OLD Chapter? Fuck! I'm gonna write about the damn messiah and flesh out this character!
digitalintent 9 months ago 4
God himself became an atheist after seeing this. I don't think I've ever seen anyone so ready to supply their own epic fail as this particular Christian.
AtSwimTwoBricks 9 months ago 44
That's what I call "ownage".
NiriuqK 9 months ago
It is like to talk with a dog. Stupid people...
brunodemoura 9 months ago
"Again, I can see where you're coming from, but" you have to look at it through the fog of cognitive dissonance from childhood indoctrination.
cablepanos 9 months ago 40
@cablepanos Yes, it is pretty painful watching the Christian avoid any reasonable, honest discussion about the Bible. The fact that he could not possibly know practically anything he claims to know about the motives and implications of 'god's work' just makes the whole thin farce. Dawkins doesn't help though, by claiming Jesus was a god guy... Richard we know FUCK ALL about the character of Jesus! His identity is as ambiguous as Robin Hood's!
MrDarkbloom 5 months ago
Dawkins is clearly ripping apart his arguments :D
Jotto999 9 months ago
Dawkins wants everyone to share his belief, and not think on their own !
53dumey 9 months ago
@53dumey Actualy...his message that I always get is think for yourself, look at the evidence. He has literally said these words in his talks and books.
torontoBluejays87 9 months ago
@torontoBluejays87
NO, his message is to Not believe in God because the evidence points away from the possibility of God.
But the Evidence is flimsy at best, there are Biologists that believe the evidence points to God !
He's a bitter old man looking for fame and Cash !
53dumey 9 months ago
@53dumey Right, and the pope isn't a "bitter old man looking for fame and cash".........Give me a break. If you are going to point at people trying to make a quick buck at the expense of the ignorant, then you have to stand in awe...in absolute awe of every single organized religion that has ever existed. Listen, I'm going to go and pray to Zeus that you get a clue about what you are talking about, peace.
torontoBluejays87 9 months ago
@torontoBluejays87
And Dawkins is'nt in it for the Money ??
LOL
Grow Up !
53dumey 9 months ago
@53dumey He just lays out his position. I must say that he made some good points....
balouthewatz 9 months ago
@balouthewatz
The same points I've heard for 3 years. Theres nothing new about them.
Just once I'd like to hear him use Science as a way to Not believe in God !
But, then theres nothing new there either !
53dumey 9 months ago
@53dumey Agree nothing new about the points, but at the same time the points he makes are correct (as a note personally I really don't like Dawkins). It's a simple burden of proof though, you don't prove a negative (prove there is a lack of god), instead, what is needed is a proof of the positive, (there is a god). Until the positive claim that there is a god is proven true through testable, falsifiable and repeatable methods, we must take the default position that there is a lack of a god.
TheWatcherGrigori 9 months ago
@53dumey "Theres nothing new about [Dawkins' arguments]."
I have the same attitude towards mathematics. I don't judge it by rigour or soundness, just the "best if used by" date. And, of course, with theism being so old...
justicecallicles 9 months ago 2
@justicecallicles
Sounds like Dawkins teachings have expired years ago, but theres always a few who will think its still fresh.
Until they try it !
53dumey 8 months ago
@53dumey
same as Christians..
chesster423 8 months ago
I absolutely have to hit the sack. It's 2:33am here and my wife called me to bed long ago. I'll let you argue over Christianity versus islam vs atheism vs paganism vs whatever. My main point was to point out that as a Christian, I felt Dawkins has been doing us a great service by asking the tough questions that make us question many of the things we believe and have mistaken for Christianity. I'm Christian, but I like Dawkins frankly. Don't always agree, but I like the guy a lot.
danieljdick 9 months ago
I am a Christian but I find Dawkin's questions very good and the answers of many Christians not that good, to be painfully frank. I agree with Dawkin's feelings and thoughts about original sin. Justice demands that sin and righteousness be chosen. But, I disagree with Dawkins about forgiveness. If forgiveness comes without punishment, that makes a statement that sin is not that bad and God is not that concerned about our allegiance to Him and the well being of the universe. Sin has a cost.
danieljdick 9 months ago
@danieljdick If a criminal raped and murdered a loved one--say a daughter, wife, mother, and the judge just said, "forgiven" and let the criminal go, I imagine you'd be unhappy with that judge. With sin, we thwart or refuse to honor the authority of God. Granted Dawkins doesn't believe the Bible, but to explain the consistency of this belief in this philosophy with the Bible, the Bible claims God wrote His law on our hearts removing our opportunity to claim ignorance legitimately.
danieljdick 9 months ago
@danieljdick So that leaves us with infinite guilt on our hands. We cannot make up for it. And that we think some sins small proves we esteem God unimportant and unworthy of respect. But, to let us go forgiven would beg Satan to ask the question, "Why send me to hell for sin when you're letting them go free?" So then Satan must go free and Hitler and all the most dangerous criminals in the world to be consistent. I have a problem with that. Don't you? How best to deal with sin?
danieljdick 9 months ago
@danieljdick Here's the thing about God torturing His Son: He didn't. Jesus signed up for the sacrifice. He came, taught, paid the price, and God, the Father suffered to watch His Son suffer and die. But, being eternal with perfect memory and perfect anticipation, every member of the trinity paid the ultimate, eternal price as there would never be a time in all eternity where the intimate awareness of the crucifixion would be abated even slightly. God signed up for the pain.
danieljdick 9 months ago