Does anybody know if this is accurate, that it says it's the composition "Fly Fly"? I'm all for contrafacts, but this isn't a contrafact, it's just Giant Steps note-for-note with an intro tacked onto it...I'm hoping this is just the video producer's error...because I really like Pat Metheny and I'd hope he wouldn't just take 'Trane's tune...note-for-note...put an intro on it...and call it his own...
Amidst this public debate it's good to bear in mind that fine arts (incl. music) are incommensurable, and thus all reviews are subjective. We can only speak for ourselves. There isn't such thing as absolute beauty. We should respect each other's views.
One of the reasons among others why people don't listen anymore to this kind of music is that guitar-wankers (pardon my French, it is true) talk about "technique" instead of discussing the music itself. Knock it off: you are boring. These arguments don't make us better guitarist.
Leave this conversation to a specific forum, please.
Who even said there was correct "technique" for Jazz Guitar? His "technique" is bad ass. End of story."What ever gets you through the night".John Lennon
Once a monster always a monster.Already spanned 40 years of jazz, he's like a living jazz history. Thanks for posting, Can alternate album recordings with this now.
Like Bill Evans said, you learn the architecture of form. Once this occurs you may break out of it at will, as long as you show the form resolve at times.
Give me artistry over and above technique any day ! And anyway , Pat's technique works brilliantly for him.The music doesn't suffer at all ; this guy is a great musician without a doubt !
He noodles eight notes together without playing with contour. He flat lines his volume. He is atrocious at accompaniment. He plays the chords, but seldom does he hear what the other soloists are playing. His tone sucks. He plays water-down jazz in the simplest form by fusing it with new-age and pop without adding flare to it. He reuses heads and themes in his improvisation and does not get out of a comfort zone in his improvisations. His improvisation sound composed.
@johngoo343 His tone is one of the very best tones in modern music. You cannot judge a shitty compressed youtube clip in this regard.Reused of melodic material from the head is a great idea, and keeps each solo from sounding unlike the previous, as each song hopefully has a different melody. Simplest form? Are you fucking nuts? Or just an idiot, and therefore that must be why no one knows about you mr. goo!
@johngoo343 "He reuses heads and themes in his improvisation" Have you ever listened to jazz before? It's a common rule of thumb that the melody should permeate, to some extent, every solo.
Who is that sax player? He sounds great! His entire setup is pretty cool. Wonder what kind of horn that is? Or is it just some funky neck on a Selmer or somethin'...?
What's all the fucking fuss about? He's obviously using all 4 fingers, but even if he was playing with just his dick it'd still sound damn good to all of you.
About technique, Pat has a different pick grip and he strokes with the side of the pick rather than with the tip what gives him a "rounder" sound. Still as someons say this would be unorthodox and regreted by a teacher but this kind of things are what make artists unique.
Giant Steps was originally supposed to be a ballad... so my group is gonna play it at around 90 bpm. if you're into really "out there" jazz, try it at that tempo, and really variate everything. almost free jazz with a beat. Jazz is the freakin greatest.
@Baltzy24 actually i dont think it was meant to be a ballad, but it was misunderstood by the pianist of the original coltrane to be a ballad. thats just what my professor told me but who knows what happened in 1959 lol
@ethansimon94 Are you serious? You couldn't get any further from Kenny G. This is a real jazz tune, with real improvisation. Gorelick put out his "jazz" album to quiet the critics, and it sucked. He wouldn't understand a tune such as "Giant Steps", never mind making listenable music out of it.
@ethansimon94 Metheny destroys Kenny G, as a manner of fact Metheny has quite diversified solos and licks, while Kenny G sounds pretty much the same in all of his tunes.
@Vechicin ....When did my thesis become that Kenny G was better? I hate Kenny G. Yes Metheney is far better than Kenny G....I would never say otherwise. However, Metheny's music carries the same lack of depth and smooth, frictionless qualities as Kenny G's.
I will quickly state that I think Metheny is an incredibly boring player with average technique who is clearly more arrogant than anyone should ever be, but Kenny G is path-fucking-etic .
And what you are talking about is STUDIO PROCESSING, not good musicianship.
@Carthsgtr That's true. But he clearly has a choice in how his music is processed. I don't think its unfair to blame the poor "smooth" mix on Metheny. And definitely his solos are incredibly boring. IMO.
Fantastic !! A curious thing: did you notice the Pat's fingering technique ?
absolutely free and orthodox ( the tumb is above the neck and he almost never uses the fourth finger ...most of the world jazz teachers and academies would disapprove him...jazz music is love, application and freedom not merely rules
@birdlandar I will pay more attention in relation to the technique of non-use of the ring finger is too fast for my eyes, if the masters of jazz mostly disapprove of such a thing, good thing he discovered the great Pat, do not you think?
@birdlandar Yeah.. but then again, thats pat, technique works differently for different people, hand sizes etc, I dont think anyone would actually benefit from pats technique as far as his non use of his pink or his thumb on top of the neck. Metheny is amazing (my favorite guitarist) but his technique works pretty much for him, who knows, e might even play better with better technique....if that is even possible
@birdlandar Yes it's true man! Pat learned to play jazz while improvising on wes montgomery records. and wes montgomery did not take music courses, and never played in positions
@birdlandar george benson uses a similar fingering technique.. and so did hendrix.. it doesn't matter how you finger when you're amongst the greatest i guess
@birdlandar you realize that he uses his 4th finger all the time... and the thumb being above the neck is not exactly frowned upon. its actually a skill in it of itself. no teachers would disapprove of him. yes jazz music is freedom and there aren't many rules but the only crazy thing about metheny is the way that he picks.
Exactly. While classical is rooted in certain rules and whatnot (and rightfully so in most instances), jazz is a very free genre with literally close to no rules. Hell, there is a jazz/fusion technique that involves intentionally playing out of key (playing outside, but there is more to it than that of course lol).
Isn't classical music far more subtle in interpretation ? The composer has a very distinct idea that is written down and
depends on a team of virtuosos to play exactly what he had in mind when he composed the piece whereas , jazz
takes the basic idea and allows for individual interpretation and expands the range of variation . magic can be achieved either spontaneously via improvisation(jazz) or via discipline ( classical ) , but what do I know !
That's pretty much what I said. When you cover a classical artist you can't start wanking and playing outside type of stuff. You never see that when guitarists cover Storm by Vivaldi, but whenever you see a guitarist cover Giant Steps by John Coltrane it's pretty much all improvised. I don't even think Coltrane had many specific melodies to apply to his chord progressions.
@birdlandar Triads are a very powerful tool soloing over Giant Steps. Especially when pairing. 1 3 5 and 3 5 7 or 3 5 6 make for great movement and color.
@lhurien I don't personally believe there's any technique that's "common" for jazz on any instrument. Hahaha.
Guitarists: Told not to put thumb on the fretboard - Pat Metheny plays like this. I play like this, too, but I adopted that from Hendrix playing. Lol.
Trumpeters: Told not to puff out cheeks - Dizzy Gillespie and most Cuban Jazz trumpeters.
I can't really think of any other examples, but yeah. :P.
let me just say... metheny's giant steps was my first introduction to coltranes masterpiece. And to me it sounded like it wasn't something hard to play. So I learned the hard way that this is just the great metheny making it SOUND easy! Which it isn't at all.... So cudos to Pat Metheny (he got me into jazz anyway)!!!
@JazzWithoutANet I think it is Karl-Martin Almqvist, not 100% sure though. If you like him, I heard this Weather Report type of group he did an album with. If you are interested myspace . com / 3rdworldelectric
@gbtayc That seems to be part of irony of this song. The progression itself is kind of loungy. I don't really care to hear it played at this tempo in this style. When Coltrane nailed the wood to the metal with his tenor made of brass, on his version, he gave all us jazz musicians something to really aspire to. Coltrane. Coltrane. Santana
@quinnguitar Loungy? Giant Steps is a rite of passage for jazz players. The chord progression is quite difficult to play through and still sound musical.
Oddly, the producers think the tune is called 'Fly Fly'. Funnily, this arrangement makes it sound more 'coktail bar' than the studio version of Pat's reworking. Good solo from him though. Who are the others guys?
Martin Almquist-tenor,Lars Daniellson-bass,Wolfgang Haffner-drums.Leszek Mozdzer-piano
Plangentry 5 days ago
Who all is playing here? This is really amazing.
scottmorseguitar 1 week ago
Does anybody know if this is accurate, that it says it's the composition "Fly Fly"? I'm all for contrafacts, but this isn't a contrafact, it's just Giant Steps note-for-note with an intro tacked onto it...I'm hoping this is just the video producer's error...because I really like Pat Metheny and I'd hope he wouldn't just take 'Trane's tune...note-for-note...put an intro on it...and call it his own...
AustinArcherJazz 2 weeks ago
Amidst this public debate it's good to bear in mind that fine arts (incl. music) are incommensurable, and thus all reviews are subjective. We can only speak for ourselves. There isn't such thing as absolute beauty. We should respect each other's views.
Napsu70 3 weeks ago
One of the reasons among others why people don't listen anymore to this kind of music is that guitar-wankers (pardon my French, it is true) talk about "technique" instead of discussing the music itself. Knock it off: you are boring. These arguments don't make us better guitarist.
Leave this conversation to a specific forum, please.
MrAndreaCaso 1 month ago
Who even said there was correct "technique" for Jazz Guitar? His "technique" is bad ass. End of story."What ever gets you through the night".John Lennon
bobbysbackingtracks 1 month ago
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Ten's of comments about Pat but no one talks abou Karl. and I play the guitar. incredible!!!
joaopasdfgh 1 month ago
Comment removed
joaopasdfgh 1 month ago
Once a monster always a monster.Already spanned 40 years of jazz, he's like a living jazz history. Thanks for posting, Can alternate album recordings with this now.
nurikara 1 month ago in playlist Favorite videos
bAhahaha that tenor player had to play the Giant Steps melody at 2 MPH!!!!!!!!
SuperNoobTroll 1 month ago
little finger or not, it's a pleasure to listen his melodic phrasing over so difficult changes. Great Pat...his best is when he play standards.
melantoriano 1 month ago
Like Bill Evans said, you learn the architecture of form. Once this occurs you may break out of it at will, as long as you show the form resolve at times.
brwnhornet59 2 months ago in playlist Favorite videos
The first thing is learn the rules. The second one is break them with passion.
detodounpoco37 3 months ago 2
love the sax solo
nate42384 3 months ago
he is simple and know that melody metter
paradebaraki 4 months ago
Give me artistry over and above technique any day ! And anyway , Pat's technique works brilliantly for him.The music doesn't suffer at all ; this guy is a great musician without a doubt !
TheHumbuckerboy 4 months ago
That's one ugly troll, but damn can he play guitar...
athox 4 months ago
at first i thought the ending was a bit ridiculous but after a few listens i really appreciate that final presentation of the reoccuring interval
jared0111 4 months ago
He noodles eight notes together without playing with contour. He flat lines his volume. He is atrocious at accompaniment. He plays the chords, but seldom does he hear what the other soloists are playing. His tone sucks. He plays water-down jazz in the simplest form by fusing it with new-age and pop without adding flare to it. He reuses heads and themes in his improvisation and does not get out of a comfort zone in his improvisations. His improvisation sound composed.
johngoo343 5 months ago
@johngoo343 His tone is one of the very best tones in modern music. You cannot judge a shitty compressed youtube clip in this regard.Reused of melodic material from the head is a great idea, and keeps each solo from sounding unlike the previous, as each song hopefully has a different melody. Simplest form? Are you fucking nuts? Or just an idiot, and therefore that must be why no one knows about you mr. goo!
fendertwin777 5 months ago
@johngoo343 "He reuses heads and themes in his improvisation" Have you ever listened to jazz before? It's a common rule of thumb that the melody should permeate, to some extent, every solo.
power2thepopulous 5 months ago
@johngoo343 So?????
joaopasdfgh 1 month ago
Wow I did not know that he was such a great guitar player! really impressed me here! Great tone too!
goreri 5 months ago
Why do they call it Fly Fly?
fendweller 5 months ago
Pat Metheny is unbelievable..
dirtyoldmanxxx 6 months ago
what's amazing here is his smooth approach to a tough tune.
gittarraman 6 months ago
Why does it not exist a "I like A LOT" button?
metallus85 6 months ago
Comment removed
metallus85 6 months ago
monster version of a monster jazz standard
marsimoni 6 months ago 2
nice*
MrAlaska67329 6 months ago
nick squeak at 3:34
MrAlaska67329 6 months ago
Who is that sax player? He sounds great! His entire setup is pretty cool. Wonder what kind of horn that is? Or is it just some funky neck on a Selmer or somethin'...?
sbaiar 7 months ago
What's all the fucking fuss about? He's obviously using all 4 fingers, but even if he was playing with just his dick it'd still sound damn good to all of you.
milesdavidsmith 7 months ago 6
It's a talking . . . . . . strongly . .. . ..
elesgabor 8 months ago
nobodys got shit on the methenes, hes a badass fucker
franksinbeans 9 months ago
methenes whataaaap
franksinbeans 9 months ago
Pat uses 3 fingers, Django used 2... it doesn't matter how you play something. It's about the music that you create.
SytzeKZ 9 months ago
About technique, Pat has a different pick grip and he strokes with the side of the pick rather than with the tip what gives him a "rounder" sound. Still as someons say this would be unorthodox and regreted by a teacher but this kind of things are what make artists unique.
RadioMakonnen 11 months ago
3 persons like small steps ...
olivercarlehed 11 months ago
Giant Steps was originally supposed to be a ballad... so my group is gonna play it at around 90 bpm. if you're into really "out there" jazz, try it at that tempo, and really variate everything. almost free jazz with a beat. Jazz is the freakin greatest.
Baltzy24 1 year ago
@Baltzy24 actually i dont think it was meant to be a ballad, but it was misunderstood by the pianist of the original coltrane to be a ballad. thats just what my professor told me but who knows what happened in 1959 lol
santiman44 11 months ago
...please. metheney is like the closest thing to kenny g without being kenny g.
i know he's got great chops, i just question his taste level.
ethansimon94 1 year ago
@ethansimon94 check out his trio work
fabekuso 1 year ago
@ethansimon94 You're joking... right?
OneTimer1127 10 months ago
@ethansimon94 Are you serious? You couldn't get any further from Kenny G. This is a real jazz tune, with real improvisation. Gorelick put out his "jazz" album to quiet the critics, and it sucked. He wouldn't understand a tune such as "Giant Steps", never mind making listenable music out of it.
funkifyyourlife 10 months ago
@ethansimon94 yeah......you're a fucking idiot.
flipadiddle 8 months ago
@ethansimon94 Metheny destroys Kenny G, as a manner of fact Metheny has quite diversified solos and licks, while Kenny G sounds pretty much the same in all of his tunes.
Vechicin 8 months ago
@Vechicin ....When did my thesis become that Kenny G was better? I hate Kenny G. Yes Metheney is far better than Kenny G....I would never say otherwise. However, Metheny's music carries the same lack of depth and smooth, frictionless qualities as Kenny G's.
ethansimon94 8 months ago
@ethansimon94
I will quickly state that I think Metheny is an incredibly boring player with average technique who is clearly more arrogant than anyone should ever be, but Kenny G is path-fucking-etic .
And what you are talking about is STUDIO PROCESSING, not good musicianship.
Carthsgtr 7 months ago
@Carthsgtr That's true. But he clearly has a choice in how his music is processed. I don't think its unfair to blame the poor "smooth" mix on Metheny. And definitely his solos are incredibly boring. IMO.
ethansimon94 7 months ago
@Carthsgtr why does kenny g always come up in metheney videos? kenny g isnt even a jazz musician.. hes a smooth jazz musician.
jrtjazztrio 6 months ago
Loved it...Thanks for posting
frillylizzard 1 year ago
Don't want to spoil the party but the sax player is a tad sharp. . . . .
melodistman 1 year ago
whats the proper jazz left hand technique?
bananachuck124 1 year ago
god... i just... what... how... ?
...god...
pgabrielides 1 year ago
Fantastic !! A curious thing: did you notice the Pat's fingering technique ?
absolutely free and orthodox ( the tumb is above the neck and he almost never uses the fourth finger ...most of the world jazz teachers and academies would disapprove him...jazz music is love, application and freedom not merely rules
birdlandar 1 year ago 12
@birdlandar I will pay more attention in relation to the technique of non-use of the ring finger is too fast for my eyes, if the masters of jazz mostly disapprove of such a thing, good thing he discovered the great Pat, do not you think?
Greetings.
leoblack97 1 year ago 2
@leoblack97 Sure! I was noticing that perfect technique doesn't make a perfect musician....
birdlandar 1 year ago
@birdlandar Some might disapprove of his technique but not his music.
bungholio80 1 year ago 10
I igree my friend. Did you check George Benson's tecnique???
Is also "wierd" but fantastic.
peace
limagroup 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@birdlandar
I igree my friend. Did you check George Benson's tecnique???
Is also "wierd" but fantastic.
peace
limagroup 1 year ago
@birdlandar Yeah.. but then again, thats pat, technique works differently for different people, hand sizes etc, I dont think anyone would actually benefit from pats technique as far as his non use of his pink or his thumb on top of the neck. Metheny is amazing (my favorite guitarist) but his technique works pretty much for him, who knows, e might even play better with better technique....if that is even possible
HyrulianWarlord 1 year ago
@birdlandar Yes it's true man! Pat learned to play jazz while improvising on wes montgomery records. and wes montgomery did not take music courses, and never played in positions
murdechoc 1 year ago
@birdlandar who says you can't use your 4th finger?
ng311706 11 months ago
@birdlandar yerh, thats why he had that crazy tendon operation in his left hand which put him out of the industry for a short amount of time.
8goong 9 months ago
@birdlandar george benson uses a similar fingering technique.. and so did hendrix.. it doesn't matter how you finger when you're amongst the greatest i guess
xXironraiderXx 9 months ago
@birdlandar Also check the way he holds the pick. He holds the pick like it was a pencil. With 3 fingers.
francisco444 8 months ago
@birdlandar you realize that he uses his 4th finger all the time... and the thumb being above the neck is not exactly frowned upon. its actually a skill in it of itself. no teachers would disapprove of him. yes jazz music is freedom and there aren't many rules but the only crazy thing about metheny is the way that he picks.
jvarrone594 6 months ago
the only techinically unique thing he does is his picking*. i dont mean that hes not a crazy good guitar player. hes actually one of my favorites
jvarrone594 6 months ago
@birdlandar DJango only used two fingers most of the thime and noone complained about that!!!!!!!!!!!
oldpython 6 months ago 2
@birdlandar Odd you say that, I personally think he is using all fingers very effectively
detroidxl 5 months ago
@birdlandar
Exactly. While classical is rooted in certain rules and whatnot (and rightfully so in most instances), jazz is a very free genre with literally close to no rules. Hell, there is a jazz/fusion technique that involves intentionally playing out of key (playing outside, but there is more to it than that of course lol).
ALL HAIL JAZZ!!!
Fluffypopcicle 4 months ago
@Fluffypopcicle
Isn't classical music far more subtle in interpretation ? The composer has a very distinct idea that is written down and
depends on a team of virtuosos to play exactly what he had in mind when he composed the piece whereas , jazz
takes the basic idea and allows for individual interpretation and expands the range of variation . magic can be achieved either spontaneously via improvisation(jazz) or via discipline ( classical ) , but what do I know !
hieronomy 4 months ago
@hieronomy
That's pretty much what I said. When you cover a classical artist you can't start wanking and playing outside type of stuff. You never see that when guitarists cover Storm by Vivaldi, but whenever you see a guitarist cover Giant Steps by John Coltrane it's pretty much all improvised. I don't even think Coltrane had many specific melodies to apply to his chord progressions.
Fluffypopcicle 4 months ago
@birdlandar what are you talking about, I saw him use all his fingers on a regular basis in this vid... and the thumb.. hendrix' influence maybe
TheHeraldic 3 months ago
@birdlandar No there are no short cuts.
surrealillness 3 months ago
@birdlandar Triads are a very powerful tool soloing over Giant Steps. Especially when pairing. 1 3 5 and 3 5 7 or 3 5 6 make for great movement and color.
brwnhornet59 2 months ago in playlist Favorite videos
@birdlandar I noticed the exact same thing yesterday one other Giant Steps video. Good eye
hermessanhao 2 months ago
@birdlandar true he has the thumb hanging over, but that's common for jazz, rock folk etc., but his use of the little finger seems normal to me.
lhurien 1 month ago
@lhurien I don't personally believe there's any technique that's "common" for jazz on any instrument. Hahaha.
Guitarists: Told not to put thumb on the fretboard - Pat Metheny plays like this. I play like this, too, but I adopted that from Hendrix playing. Lol.
Trumpeters: Told not to puff out cheeks - Dizzy Gillespie and most Cuban Jazz trumpeters.
I can't really think of any other examples, but yeah. :P.
TintedRedFilms 1 month ago
Didn't know Philip Seymour Hoffman played the saxophone.
SeraphSnake 1 year ago
let me just say... metheny's giant steps was my first introduction to coltranes masterpiece. And to me it sounded like it wasn't something hard to play. So I learned the hard way that this is just the great metheny making it SOUND easy! Which it isn't at all.... So cudos to Pat Metheny (he got me into jazz anyway)!!!
guitarjoa 1 year ago
I just love this stuff
junka22 1 year ago
Metheny does rock
quinnguitar 1 year ago
nice camera work
now lets see
what fingering does he use for those amazing flowing guitar licks
gbtayc 1 year ago
@gbtayc I was going to really think about that, but I fell asleep while listening; or maybe the phone rang...
HAIL PAT METHENY
No bad intentions
quinnguitar 1 year ago
Comment removed
quinnguitar 1 year ago
The tenor player kind of reminds me of Joel Frahm...unless it is him.
parasyte89 1 year ago
the tenor player has such a light attack on his horn..
it's funny to hear a tenor player with a light touch playing on giant steps
prsshred39 1 year ago
Me agrego a dos de los comentarios previos aquí vertidos:
¿Quiénes integran este ensemble con el gran Pat?
Está por demás calificar con palabras el talento de Mr. Metheny......
mejor sigamos escuchándole....
Gracias de antemano por la respuesta!!
Besos, Leo!!!
Mine
Magamiam 1 year ago
Nice rendition....Who's playing the tenor?
JazzWithoutANet 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@JazzWithoutANet I think it is Karl-Martin Almqvist, not 100% sure though. If you like him, I heard this Weather Report type of group he did an album with. If you are interested myspace . com / 3rdworldelectric
Fagleboo 1 year ago
giant steps lounge style?
gbtayc 1 year ago
@gbtayc That seems to be part of irony of this song. The progression itself is kind of loungy. I don't really care to hear it played at this tempo in this style. When Coltrane nailed the wood to the metal with his tenor made of brass, on his version, he gave all us jazz musicians something to really aspire to. Coltrane. Coltrane. Santana
quinnguitar 1 year ago
@quinnguitar Loungy? Giant Steps is a rite of passage for jazz players. The chord progression is quite difficult to play through and still sound musical.
funkifyyourlife 10 months ago
the best of non-commercial metheny. Would I trade my soul to play like that? I guess...
piccinini02 1 year ago 6
@piccinini02 hahaha! also occurs to me as well, thanks for valuing Pat Metheny, the greatest!
Greetings!
leoblack97 1 year ago
@piccinini02 what would be commercial metheny?
HyrulianWarlord 1 year ago
Bahia !!! Classic Pat...Groovin' in the Rio sun !!!
1dabop 1 year ago
I love this version! Pat does a killer job on this tune!
cbmuzik 2 years ago
@cbmuzik It is unbeatable!
Thanks!
leoblack97 2 years ago
Giant Pat.
ERDGHY 2 years ago
Mega Giant Pat !
leoblack97 2 years ago
Pat sei il migliore!!!!!!!
RomeoViulenza 2 years ago
Pat è certamente un dono di godere.
Saluti
leoblack97 2 years ago
whos on Tenor?
guyhassin 2 years ago
Karl-Martin Almqvist?
clmbrdude 2 years ago
even if its sounds cocktail,
this is some great metheny
vince8ravary 2 years ago
Pat has a great performance with his guitar, its resources are inexhaustible, I say that is what makes unattainable for any normal person.
Greetings!
leoblack97 2 years ago
this is amazing
vince8ravary 2 years ago
Oddly, the producers think the tune is called 'Fly Fly'. Funnily, this arrangement makes it sound more 'coktail bar' than the studio version of Pat's reworking. Good solo from him though. Who are the others guys?
fendweller 2 years ago