Hey, whatever happened to the macho bravado of all you americans with your precious guns? Here you have a chance to fire one at someone who isn't a relative and you go all pussy about it. Look at all the videos of you people looking oh so menacing with your attitude and guns to compensate for your little cowardly dicks. Man up you cry babies and walk the talk.
i never did take the test,just saying there people out there who wants to join but they can't cause they can't pass asvab! for me if they want me they would have to draft my ass!
they have been talking about a damn military draft since the planes hit the towers. i laugh at every old fucker that tells me the army is coming for me. they do that to scare the young guys. quit being pussies, go about your daily lives and dont worry about it. there wont be a draft.
How many people between the ages of 18 and 25 can you honestly say can actually afford to leave the country? I know that myself, as a 22 year old workin' full time, I can't even afford a better vehicle let alone to leave the country.
I do realize that but is that pay worth it when A) The funds are gone and inflation rises so you can't pay for anything anyway and B) The fact that you're just extending your deployment or number of deployment(s) due to the fact that for every son/daughter/father/brother/sister/mother that the brass order you to kill, another rebel fighter is created.
Sure some of those people might be truly bad people, but some are just getting you back just like you may have gotten someone else back for a bro
If that moron Obama actually gets in, they'll NEED a draft.
Sticking an unqualified weakling in the White House, with a pack of chickenshit Democrats backing him in COngress, is just inviting attack from several packs of thugs who've been waiting for just this chance.
Every vet I know is voting for McCain, to keep us OUT of a bigger war.
They should just drop the Asvab test and diploma not start a draft..you'll get people in there that don't want to be there and probably get your teammates killed.
Would anyone go if they were drafted? Seriously, the Gov't can't send troops home to start bullying people into signing the dotted line for basic training. It's an impossibility.
hey everyone, ya you without your pants on, listen and listen close for time is against us, we must unite and annihilate! When/if(i hope its the latter but it wont be) the draft happens don't do anything and by this i mean don't fight for them or them ok just stand/sit there and keep on telling the drill instructors that you wont kill people even if it means your death ok, i know its a lot to ask, but if we all do it or just a lot of us do it, it'll show them that they're not in control!!!
My father joined the Navy in WWII with a 9th grade education. He got his GED while serving. There are many reasons why someone doesn't graduate high school. If you can shoot straight and follow orders, you should be let in. We need the bodies for this war.
If the American people aren't supporting a war then we shouldn't be involved in such wars. I thought this was a democratic country, but I guess not with you war hungry goons out there.
After our govt has attacked our Constitution and the rights of the people, why would anyone fight for a govt that has zero loyalty to us? We are forced to pay huge taxes for nothing and our govt does what it wants without regaurd for the people who are supposed to own the govt!
Don not fight refuse to obey a draft ... better to go to jail than support a government that will not respect your rights!
If you want loyalty govt, learn to be loyal first!
For now we are safe with Bush as president. I remember during the presidential race between Bush and Kerry a few years ago, that Bush promised he would not reinstitute the draft. It looks like the only way the draft will come back is if john Mcain gets elected
GED is like a high school diploma I actually have one. The only problem I have run into is some colleges require a real high school degree and a GED does not cut it.
A draft would be just the thing to get the masses involved.
BTW, does the US military own the air? Do they own the environment to do with it what they may? I say not!
I care about one thing-the health of my child and I want to know what's going on with the spraying of vapors (chemtrails) which create artificial clouds filled with barium, etc.
IT's our right to know.
You may not care but if your home has solar components or if you're a farmer & the sun is being blocked, you'd care!
wow this is Stupid. funny thign is the Marines are expanding an will be as large as they were in ww2. that's about 400,000 an if the military really needed more ppl they woudl start taking GED ppl that want to join. first an belive me there are a good number of GED ppl on waiting lists.
I disagree with the draft especially if it's a war to help people of a country thousands of miles a way from the U.S. get freedom. The only way it should be a draft is if America has been invaded by Soviet Nazi Jihads. And if half the U.S. population is gone.
Our country doesn't need anyone to fight. War is about making rich assholes richer and moving towards one world government and I REFUSE to do it. War does not equal peace.
the 13 amendment is purebullshit. religion is bullshit.
getting back to point. yes i am aware that a draft is not to the liking of anyone but if we needed it. i would probably join. would i want to no. but it is bcuz of them that we are here...
ON the other hand. it is bcuz of the stupid old peopel that we are fighting.
why dont the old republicans and democrats get drafted so they would fight for their country.??
I'm all for sending the chickenhawks to fight, but they won't if their's a draft. Look at our president and vice-president. Most chickenhawks are rich and would just use their connections to get out of it.
I served my time aswell bran. This is one of those "read my lips" moments to all the silly neo-con chickenhawk fucktards in here..beat the war drums..the neo-cons cum..beat the draft drums..the neo-cons run..OORAH!
ur right skeil909, Americans dont give a shit about us vets in general, i spit on a yellow ribbon, only way the people will care is when they are coming to ur house an pulling your kids from your arms, i hope they do start a draft, i did my time there so im off da hook hehe
I truly wish they WOULD bring back the draft! Then maybe people will finally wake up and decide they have had enough! I will be among the first to tell them they can stick their draft up their ass!
Heh. Not to boast again, but my degree has so far costed me AUS$10,000 - I'm in my third year. That's only the contribution I have to make - the rest of the cost is paid by the government. And even for the $10,000 (about $13,000 by the time I finish) I do have to pay, it's only indexed at the rate of inflation, and I only have to start repaying it when I earn over $32,750 pa. Avg graduate salary is about $42,000 in Australia - but higher for grads from my degree.
Exactly. When you only start wars for causes that the soldiers fighting them can be proud to put their lives on the line for, then you don't have problems recruiting troops, as people feel like they're doing something good for humanity.
I heard today 8/14/07 on the radio that the US gov't hasn't ruled out the draft. Not only on the radio but in my class they talk about it and it's mentioned all over the media.
That's terrible. I'd start writing your consciencious objector application. Failing that, come to Aus and I'm sure we'll give you political asylum. Free-to-cheap health care too. Heh heh. You see Michael Moore's Sicko?
Seen it man I'm living it. I was trying to get health insurance for my dad since he is a diabetic and no one would take him because of his condition and he broke his leg in January and we got a bill for 56 thousand dollars. It has been a nightmare, I'm asthmatic and I have to get my meds in Tijuana, Mexico because it is cheaper. Sucks huh?
FFS. Man that's shocking. Michael Moore's film opened my eyes up to the US Health Care system. I knew it was bad - but not that bad. Don't mean to rub it in, but if I broke my leg I would be in and out of hospital in a few hours with no bills to pay. They might even keep me in for observation and I'd just leave in the morning.
LOL I don't think your rubbing it in. I know our health care system is messed up. While my dad was being seen by the doctor at the hospital he told him right before he had to have surgery on his leg after he broke it, "you thought you were rich, well not anymore since you're here". Nice huh? On top of the 56k bill we still get other bills from the paramedic company and the other hospital departments
And to answer your question yeah I've seen it and a lot of what he says in the film is true because we have been through much of what you see in it. The insurance company girl one time told me they won't accept you so don't I wouldn't even waste my time.
One more thing I was an EMT for over 2 years and this health care system is so screwed up its ridiculous. I found it funny I was helping these people get to hospitals when they were injured and sick and here I am can't even go to the hospital myself because I coudln't afford health insurance so I have to go to a third world country to get my medicine like the part where he took the emergency workers to Cuba, I think it was Cuba. Ironic huh?
Extraordinarily. Such is the power structure in the US. I've seen anti-communist/socialist videos made by the US, and it goes from one extreme to another - pure fear mongering. I would call Australia's public health-care system 'socialised medicine'. We are a high tax country but we all enjoy a higher quality of life for it too. I went for an eye test today at the optometrists, and it was fully 'bulk-billed' to medicare - I didn't pay a cent.
My Law of Financial Transactions class had lecture from the Official Trustee (the person who administers and supervises bankruptcies in our state) and he said that he's overseen bankruptcies for doctors, lawyers, financial managers, engineers, scientists. They're not immune to being hit hard by bad times. So our healthcare system is there for them too. Not only that, but socialised medicine yeilds benefits to companies in the form of superior productivity too.
I'm a tutor, no longer work as an EMT because it was giving me ulcers, and every year I have several kids that go to class without glasses because their parents can't afford it and they have so much trouble in class because of it, its ridiculous. Your lucky. By the way my brother was in the Navy he went to Australia and loved it says it is one of the places he would go back to.
Well I was asking an honest question. I really don't think an asylum would be seriously considered by the Aussie government just for COs and draft dodgers. I wish them the best though.
The government might not consider it... but knowing how Australians think, I know that people would be willing to hide US citizens so they can avoid a draft. We don't believe in it. When the enemies invading your shores, sure, okay, draft people.
But drafting people to send them to a far away country - no way.
I detest draft dodgers. I take back what I said earlier. When I think about Dick Cheney, who had five draft deferments because he "had other priorities," I loathe anyone who'd get themselves out of combat and let their peers get sent into harm's way. COs on the other hand have a legitimate cause and I think that they should begin their application for CO status ASAP.
Well in my opinion, someone shouldn't be forced to fight a war that they don't believe in. Iraq war was a load of bollocks from the outset. Never posed a threat at all.
I sympathize but I think that Afghanistan is a legitimate fight and that we need more men for those battles. And I think that right or wrong aside every citizen is required to serve their country. That's part of the citizenship oath. It's what John Locke called tacit consent.
I have very different ideas of nationality, patriotism and citizenship then. I don't think I have to serve my country in anyway. I can be in any country in the world so long as I obey it's laws. And are you really serving your country? You might be serving your country when there is a direct threat to your nations people and it's sovereignty - but in the absence of a direct threat, any engagement cannot be considered service to the country.
that is fucking bull shit u live in this country and you get ur freedom and when your country is in need becuase they dont have anough people to protect them you are going to say that no i dont have to. that is a load of bull shit i think if the draft came around the would join the army volunteerly becuase i am an american and i am proud to be. i will fight for my country when they need me.
I'm sorry but I don't think 'freedom' is something I should owe a debt to ANYONE for. And I don't see how flying to the other side of the world to fight a war against an enemy that doesn't threaten my countries shorelines has ANYTHING to do with defending my freedom.
If you think you're in debt for your freedom then you aren't truly free.
you were born free from the moment you first set eyes on the world...man has corrupted life in general! there wont be a draft if there is one everyone in the U.S would protest.
i know the communists, the collectivists, the statists, etc. LOOOVE the idea of involuntary servitude, but here is the thing, i do not owe politicians one single ounce of my flesh or one single second of my life. i challenge you to prove such a debt. the military draft is outright slavery. "wherever there is sacrifice there are those collecting the sacrificial offerings. the man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking in terms of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master."
in considering whether a military draft is an acceptable government policcy, it is first necessary to ask yourself a very fundamental question regarding the very purpose of government to begin with. is the purpose of government to a) abolish individual rights, or b) protect and maintain individual rights. a military draft is incompatible with the latter.
"in considering whether a military draft is an acceptable government policcy" government law is not subject to ones personal opininion and your arguement is a excellent case of why not. While I can only speculate on what would of happened during WW2 if no draft had been implimented I would say there is at least some possability that you could be speaking German now.
what the fuck is "government law"? individuals make laws and individuals enforce those laws upon other individuals. despite what your state worshipping mind may have you believe, there is such thing as unacceptable and immoral policy. apparently you are under the popular persuasion that individual rights do not exist, and thus the individuals who make the rules are by no means accountable to their job description.
The point I am saying is that you as a individual will not descide what the government is going to dictate simply because thats what you think because it always takes more then 1. If you cherish your individual rights so much why are you afriad to fight for them? If the US gets invaded and we dont do the draft because its "illegal" and we lose what are you going to do? I agree that the draft has been misused and never used in a situation it should of been but sometimes you just have to fight.
if YOU cherish individual rights, then why on earth would you possibly advocate their systematic elimination? involuntary servitude is the NEGATION of individual rights. it is immoral. it is collectivism. it is downright unacceptable. the idea that we must defend individual rights by disregarding and systematically destroying them is absurd. and besides, war is never conducted for national security, or in the interest of individuals other than those who benefit from it.
So we abolish invoulantry servitude on the basis that it infrignes on indivual rights and our military will always be able to deal with whatever threat comes to rise for all eternity? If you really are that good at predicting the future you should run for a political office.
i am that good at predicting the future. no country with nuculear technology has EVER been invaded by another state. those countries that do possess nuculear technology yet engage in war are doing so in either preemption or interventionism, but the reason for going to war, consequentially kidnapping and condemning thousands of innocent young men to their deaths, NEVER has anything to do whatsoever with national security. there are people who benefit from war and people who are hurt by it.
it's difficult to fathom the extent to which a person must be criminally insane to conceive the notion that it is acceptable to employ slavery as a means to any end regardless of what that end may be. involuntary servitude is immoral and unacceptable. period. if humanity had abided by that self evident principle, there would have not been a roman empire, a soviet empire, a nazi empire, and now, since we hold military occupations on every continent and dozens of countries, an american empire.
even in your hypothetical fantasy world where governments are responsible in their kidnapping, enslavement, and condemning of individuals to death, and where industrial empires do not draft for frivolous interventionist and preemptive pursuits, slavery is STILL immoral. plain and simple. i do not have the right to force you to kill anybody. you do not have the right to force me to kill anybody. nobody has the right to kidnap and force people to kill other people. any child could tell you that.
and this is all besides the fact that no state will invade another state armed with nuculear weapons. the world knows the extent to which the bomb devastated the japanese civilian populations of hiroshima and nagasaki... and japan has never even invaded this country! nuculear arms are a significant disincentive to deter attack. and besides, fiat currencies don't last a hundred let alone two hundred years. they always collapse.
Has the draft been misused? Yes. There is no such thing as a perfect government. I agree with the agruement that the draft has been misused. However its purpose of tasking to the people to the military in times of need is sound. Has it ever been used in a true time of need? No. Nuclear weapons act as a extreme detterent I agree. I will use Iran as a example. They know we could kick there ass but that will not stop them from fighting. During the cold war our military was double
the size it is now. Even if nuclear weapons shield us from 99.9% of any situation that would topple the US government and conquer the United States the .1% chance that we will need a larger military should not be discarded. You know like the saying chance favors the prepared.
the ends don't justify the means. sacrificing american principles to save the union is the equivelant of destroying it anyway. and as ive already mentioned, there is no scenario in which it would be necessary for national security. every historical example of the draft's implementation has been for imperialstic or interventionist pursuits. always.
Personally I highly doubt the draft will ever be used again. Times have changed and the days of conventional warfare are gone. I do however feel that we should retain the ability to draft and any valid reason for using it will meet little or no resistance as most people will agree it is required.
...you do realize the entire justification for republican government rests on objective moral convictions, dont you? of course it matters if something is moral or immoral!
unless you are wholly ignorant of metaphysics, and you are completely oblivious to reality, you can guess that slavery is immoral, rude, and a little mean. slavery is wrong. plain and simple. no person has the right to force another person into his servitude involuntarily. you don't have the right to do so to another person, and another person does not have the right to do so to you.
I agree slavery is wrong. But to equate slavery to the draft during a political speech would probably invoke a strong back lash from the black people of America. While I realize that you think everything you say is true because thats what you believe it does not make you right. In fact if the US had to involve morales in every descion that has been made since its founding the US would not be what it is today. Welcome to the real world.
i'm not equating the draft to anything. i am simply stating what it is. involuntary servitude, that is a nonconsensual relationship in which you are forced at gunpoint to serve a master, is slavery. that is the definition of slavery. involuntary servitude. if you still maintain that you do in fact have the right to kidnap someone and force them to kill for you, then you are criminally insane. i don't know how i can say it any more simply than that. it is self evident.
and yes, you are absolutely correct. the U.S. would NOT be what it is today. we would have sound monetary foundations, a productive economy in which investment is based on savings, a foreign policy of noninterventionism, no income tax, no immigration problem(since there would be no welfare state), corporations would not find it easier to loot the public treasury than to simply provide a good on the market, and there would not be a popular resentment of this country culminating globally.
it is socially and economically beneficial to act morally. empires collapse when they make the transition from republic to democracy. freedom and market based economies culminate preferable socio-economic conditions in which personal economic incentives are allowed to manifest themselves. rome and the united states were both built on relatively free foundations, and every historical example you see, capitalism produces prosperity.
unfortunately what happened to rome is exactly what you are seeing in this society. it started with economic regulations and then they adopted heavy taxes on income. the emergence of the welfare state soon followed with the unchecked growth of government and the abandonment of their constitution. their international military holdings proved too costly to maintain and their entitlement programs also proved unsustainable.
...are those going to be the words of your henchmen before they bust down my door and force ME to kill for YOU? none of my metaphysical opinions regarding ethics and morality are in any way whatsoever based off of the perverted altruistic and violent doctrine of christianity. some mythological texts can provide profound philosophical realizations, but they are in no way historical documents. what does jesus have to do with roman, russian, german, greek, and american imperialism through slavery?
Well fiction or not Jesus did what he thought was right and in the end I would say it did not work out so great for him. If your views of how things should be were implimented I do not think it would go as well as you think.
it is not necessary to speculate. again, history has demonstrated that in conditions of freedom, where individuals are left hinderance free to pursue their own rational self interests in the form of property, prosperity is the result. it's not some fantastic unsubstantiated theory. freedom works in financial and social interractions between individuals. capitalism works. freedom works. simple as that. the elimination of force and fraud from human relationships is the extent of my principles.
the regulations, taxation, and institutionalized slavery created economic stagnation. in its final years, crowds reportedly roamed the streets demanding gold and bread from the government. it is perfectly correct to assert, "rome collapsed because of its own immorality." only under conditions of freedom can society, economy, and humanity flourish.
iran is not going to invade the united states. iran has not threatened to invade the united states. empires collapse from within. you should be more concerned with socially and economically restrictive domestic policies and especially the inevitable gloomy fate of our currency. at any rate, no, slavery is not necessary to defend a country. it never has been and it never will be. involuntary servitude is only critical to a foreign policy of interventionism and nation building.
"governments" are established to "protect and maintain individual rights." when the rulemakers implement policy wildly contradictory of this expressly stated purpose, then the policy is not only immoral but illogical and unacceptable. and besides, the draft is illegal anyway.
the thirteenth amendment states, "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." the draft is involuntary servitude, and thus violates the constitution.
if there had been no draft, then there would have been no nazi germany, but that's another popular fallacy. nazi germany was doomed to collapse at its conception. its command economy was unsustainable. what would have happened if we hadn't entered wwii is that we would have sat back, watched europe wear itself out, and then watched the entire thing crumble.
Basically what you're saying is that you're expected to go and fight for a country simply because you're born into it. Where's the country I can go to and not have to fight on the whim of it's leaders? And I say it's leaders because people rarely get a vote on wether a war is fought or not. And rarely is there symmetric information. Governments always know more than the people. Hence people can't make an informed decision even if there was a vote.
The paradigm is often that nation states serve their people as a whole. But I challenge that paradigm. When the leaders of countries like the the US seem to always be decendant from very wealthy families with wide ranging social and economic ties, you begin to wonder where those nations governments stop serving their people and start serving the interests of minority groups.
And I'm not saying that out of some hair-brained conspiracy theory - I'm saying that out of how much money people have made off this war. Suppliers of military goods and equipment, contractors, private security firms, construction companies and oil companies have all made a killing. The war has benefited the shareholders of so many companies, who happen to be the rich and wealthy of the US, who also are the people who make campaign contributions.
We know now for certain that intelligence reports were manipulated to get the US (and the rest of us) into Iraq. A pre-emptive war was fought on that manipulated intelligence. Now we need to ask who benefited from that manipulated intelligence? Certainly not the soldiers who've fought the war or the people who've lost love ones. Or the Iraqi people who died needlessly.
Therein lies the problem. After 9/11 the MSM was too timid to directly challenge the Administration in its path to war. People were ignorant. Congress rubberstamped the war like they rubberstamped everything.
I still think that if more people in society had a connection with the military, it would change society for good. Fewer and fewer politicians every election cycle have served in uniform. I blame this for the rush to war in 2003.
lol These people really dont understand how large the US population really is... Not to mention we have a 3 million man military lol...
TheEvilAmerican 9 months ago
Booo!
Boooo!
BOOOOOO!!!!
Hissssssss
centurion180ad 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Hey, whatever happened to the macho bravado of all you americans with your precious guns? Here you have a chance to fire one at someone who isn't a relative and you go all pussy about it. Look at all the videos of you people looking oh so menacing with your attitude and guns to compensate for your little cowardly dicks. Man up you cry babies and walk the talk.
autumncathedral 11 months ago
Thank god im canadian!!!
BUDAGREEN1 1 year ago
The draft is fucking stupid! Give peace a chance. Look what happened in Vietnam
GamingwithFuzz 1 year ago
this Korb guy used to be the ceo of Raytheon
mizzoulibertarian 2 years ago
I think they should draft the people who wants to fight in the military but cant pass the asvab!!!!!!!!!!
aarontheone1 2 years ago
i think r one of the guys who couldnt pass the asvab study a little bit idiot its not a hard test
reglcon1234 2 years ago
i never did take the test,just saying there people out there who wants to join but they can't cause they can't pass asvab! for me if they want me they would have to draft my ass!
aarontheone1 2 years ago
i wouldnt want sum1 fighting next to me who couldnt pass the asvab its such an easy test if you cant pass it your a dolt
reglcon1234 2 years ago
its not how smart you are but how much nerve you have so you wont crap your pants
evilbum138 2 years ago
you still have to be smart enough to be able to calculate and make good desicions
reglcon1234 2 years ago
thats so funking true bc i want to join but i have common sence and no that smart but average intel
evilbum138 2 years ago
Being drafted at the age of 18 sucks ul be like finally!!! im free from school! note:you have ben drafted
then ur body will be in a grave so yeah jeeze give us a while too live already
umean123 2 years ago
they have been talking about a damn military draft since the planes hit the towers. i laugh at every old fucker that tells me the army is coming for me. they do that to scare the young guys. quit being pussies, go about your daily lives and dont worry about it. there wont be a draft.
TwiztdTruckr25 2 years ago
Ron Paul - 2012
Lingerfoot 3 years ago
need more goyem blood if you are at the age of draft leave the country ,
oo446611 3 years ago
How many people between the ages of 18 and 25 can you honestly say can actually afford to leave the country? I know that myself, as a 22 year old workin' full time, I can't even afford a better vehicle let alone to leave the country.
My solution is to fight back.
LordAidenWolf 3 years ago
if called upon, YOU will go or you will go to Canada or jail
AC75904 2 years ago
yo do realize how good deploy pay is dont yo lol
reglcon1234 2 years ago
I do realize that but is that pay worth it when A) The funds are gone and inflation rises so you can't pay for anything anyway and B) The fact that you're just extending your deployment or number of deployment(s) due to the fact that for every son/daughter/father/brother/sister/mother that the brass order you to kill, another rebel fighter is created.
Sure some of those people might be truly bad people, but some are just getting you back just like you may have gotten someone else back for a bro
LordAidenWolf 2 years ago
If that moron Obama actually gets in, they'll NEED a draft.
Sticking an unqualified weakling in the White House, with a pack of chickenshit Democrats backing him in COngress, is just inviting attack from several packs of thugs who've been waiting for just this chance.
Every vet I know is voting for McCain, to keep us OUT of a bigger war.
ChopperSix 3 years ago
this had been a war of attrition. A draft WILL WORK but I DO NOT support it one bit..
fiendin281 3 years ago 2
They should just drop the Asvab test and diploma not start a draft..you'll get people in there that don't want to be there and probably get your teammates killed.
Ecto9 3 years ago 2
Would anyone go if they were drafted? Seriously, the Gov't can't send troops home to start bullying people into signing the dotted line for basic training. It's an impossibility.
DaesReign 3 years ago
getting shot at is not what i want, but if drafted yes i would serve my country proudly
AC75904 2 years ago
The only way i would fight in a war is if it would effect the US (Unlike the Iraq War).
And i would only go if every senator/president/vp that voted for the war went to fight it.
CrazyItalian992 3 years ago
Kids of Gov't officials are first to be drafted, its only fair.
DJRezinate 3 years ago 3
Affirmative.
KiloByte69 3 years ago 2
God bless the Mujahideen that are destroying the american crusaders.
BasilC1983 3 years ago
You probably live in the US you dickless piece of shit
KiloByte69 3 years ago
thank god i have a mexican birth and american ill just flee if theres drafting.
gamefreak12724 3 years ago
"thank god i have a mexican birth and american ill just flee if theres drafting."
lol, There will be a mass wave of American illegals crossing the border into Mexico.
PaxBrittanica 3 years ago 8
dude america is the next germany, is everyone with half a brain is going to be fleeing to other countries
pwnstoohard 3 years ago 6
This has been flagged as spam show
hey everyone, ya you without your pants on, listen and listen close for time is against us, we must unite and annihilate! When/if(i hope its the latter but it wont be) the draft happens don't do anything and by this i mean don't fight for them or them ok just stand/sit there and keep on telling the drill instructors that you wont kill people even if it means your death ok, i know its a lot to ask, but if we all do it or just a lot of us do it, it'll show them that they're not in control!!!
LarryforRonPaul 3 years ago
well good voro, you go ahead and fight for the globalists and elites, lol, they really care about you, what a complete and utter fool...
fgj1376 3 years ago
My father joined the Navy in WWII with a 9th grade education. He got his GED while serving. There are many reasons why someone doesn't graduate high school. If you can shoot straight and follow orders, you should be let in. We need the bodies for this war.
Nighr2001 3 years ago
If the American people aren't supporting a war then we shouldn't be involved in such wars. I thought this was a democratic country, but I guess not with you war hungry goons out there.
lordblazer 3 years ago 2
After our govt has attacked our Constitution and the rights of the people, why would anyone fight for a govt that has zero loyalty to us? We are forced to pay huge taxes for nothing and our govt does what it wants without regaurd for the people who are supposed to own the govt!
Don not fight refuse to obey a draft ... better to go to jail than support a government that will not respect your rights!
If you want loyalty govt, learn to be loyal first!
ben5017 3 years ago
For now we are safe with Bush as president. I remember during the presidential race between Bush and Kerry a few years ago, that Bush promised he would not reinstitute the draft. It looks like the only way the draft will come back is if john Mcain gets elected
kuhtfrs 3 years ago
isn't a GED like a high school diploma?
SoldierCyfix 3 years ago
GED is like a high school diploma I actually have one. The only problem I have run into is some colleges require a real high school degree and a GED does not cut it.
danboyd12 3 years ago
why?
SoldierCyfix 3 years ago
A draft would be just the thing to get the masses involved.
BTW, does the US military own the air? Do they own the environment to do with it what they may? I say not!
I care about one thing-the health of my child and I want to know what's going on with the spraying of vapors (chemtrails) which create artificial clouds filled with barium, etc.
IT's our right to know.
You may not care but if your home has solar components or if you're a farmer & the sun is being blocked, you'd care!
ikekll 4 years ago
wow this is Stupid. funny thign is the Marines are expanding an will be as large as they were in ww2. that's about 400,000 an if the military really needed more ppl they woudl start taking GED ppl that want to join. first an belive me there are a good number of GED ppl on waiting lists.
Dogmeat7 4 years ago
If you have 15 college credit you can turn your GeD into a high school diploma so you can score well on the ASVAB. Btw this debate is just riffraff.
knives01ng 3 years ago
I disagree with the draft especially if it's a war to help people of a country thousands of miles a way from the U.S. get freedom. The only way it should be a draft is if America has been invaded by Soviet Nazi Jihads. And if half the U.S. population is gone.
patrickpryor123 4 years ago
the american army is made up of fat old men
TheBulgarianExMuslim 4 years ago
I dont need no damn war"
it feeds the rich,while it buries the poor"
TexarkanaBraveheart 4 years ago
Our country doesn't need anyone to fight. War is about making rich assholes richer and moving towards one world government and I REFUSE to do it. War does not equal peace.
skateordie1027 4 years ago 3
Right on man, fuck the military industrial complex and warmonger leading both parties.
Go Ron Paul
dritzz1515 4 years ago
ok ok stop the bullshit.
the 13 amendment is purebullshit. religion is bullshit.
getting back to point. yes i am aware that a draft is not to the liking of anyone but if we needed it. i would probably join. would i want to no. but it is bcuz of them that we are here...
ON the other hand. it is bcuz of the stupid old peopel that we are fighting.
why dont the old republicans and democrats get drafted so they would fight for their country.??
no answer huh.
elfhazard 4 years ago
"The shorter answer is, 'no.'" Lol.
Commando303X 4 years ago
the draft thing is so fucking stupid, no matter how you interpret it a draft is illegal by the 13th amendmand.
darkling9109 4 years ago
I'm all for sending the chickenhawks to fight, but they won't if their's a draft. Look at our president and vice-president. Most chickenhawks are rich and would just use their connections to get out of it.
Scotty7617 4 years ago
I served my time aswell bran. This is one of those "read my lips" moments to all the silly neo-con chickenhawk fucktards in here..beat the war drums..the neo-cons cum..beat the draft drums..the neo-cons run..OORAH!
geniusisweakness 4 years ago
Semper Fi! USMC
IraqVetNY 4 years ago
i will not fight this war but if it was more important like a ww3 i would.
crazygamer123456 4 years ago
ur right skeil909, Americans dont give a shit about us vets in general, i spit on a yellow ribbon, only way the people will care is when they are coming to ur house an pulling your kids from your arms, i hope they do start a draft, i did my time there so im off da hook hehe
Bran306 4 years ago
I truly wish they WOULD bring back the draft! Then maybe people will finally wake up and decide they have had enough! I will be among the first to tell them they can stick their draft up their ass!
skeil909 4 years ago
Take care
acerx7 4 years ago
You too mate.
MikeT2005 4 years ago
Man I have to move to Australia...by the way this is acerx7 I just changed my login name.
HistoryMajor7 4 years ago
Go To Mexico, make my way to Argentina maybe and then to New Zealand or Australia.
This is a wrong war and I will not fight in it.
JoeMomma2002 4 years ago
Well I'll talk to you later I have to look for books for my upcoming semester, gotta pay for the ridiculously over-priced education also :D
acerx7 4 years ago
Heh. Not to boast again, but my degree has so far costed me AUS$10,000 - I'm in my third year. That's only the contribution I have to make - the rest of the cost is paid by the government. And even for the $10,000 (about $13,000 by the time I finish) I do have to pay, it's only indexed at the rate of inflation, and I only have to start repaying it when I earn over $32,750 pa. Avg graduate salary is about $42,000 in Australia - but higher for grads from my degree.
MikeT2005 4 years ago
Man if anyone in your country complains about high taxes tell them about our 56k dollar bill.
acerx7 4 years ago
They wouldn't have trouble expanding their army if the war wasn't a screw up for the outset.
MikeT2005 4 years ago
Well said, spread out to thin, very little people want to volunteer because this war is an unjustifiable mess.
acerx7 4 years ago
Exactly. When you only start wars for causes that the soldiers fighting them can be proud to put their lives on the line for, then you don't have problems recruiting troops, as people feel like they're doing something good for humanity.
MikeT2005 4 years ago
I heard today 8/14/07 on the radio that the US gov't hasn't ruled out the draft. Not only on the radio but in my class they talk about it and it's mentioned all over the media.
acerx7 4 years ago
That's terrible. I'd start writing your consciencious objector application. Failing that, come to Aus and I'm sure we'll give you political asylum. Free-to-cheap health care too. Heh heh. You see Michael Moore's Sicko?
Have you seen
MikeT2005 4 years ago
Seen it man I'm living it. I was trying to get health insurance for my dad since he is a diabetic and no one would take him because of his condition and he broke his leg in January and we got a bill for 56 thousand dollars. It has been a nightmare, I'm asthmatic and I have to get my meds in Tijuana, Mexico because it is cheaper. Sucks huh?
acerx7 4 years ago
FFS. Man that's shocking. Michael Moore's film opened my eyes up to the US Health Care system. I knew it was bad - but not that bad. Don't mean to rub it in, but if I broke my leg I would be in and out of hospital in a few hours with no bills to pay. They might even keep me in for observation and I'd just leave in the morning.
MikeT2005 4 years ago
LOL I don't think your rubbing it in. I know our health care system is messed up. While my dad was being seen by the doctor at the hospital he told him right before he had to have surgery on his leg after he broke it, "you thought you were rich, well not anymore since you're here". Nice huh? On top of the 56k bill we still get other bills from the paramedic company and the other hospital departments
acerx7 4 years ago
And to answer your question yeah I've seen it and a lot of what he says in the film is true because we have been through much of what you see in it. The insurance company girl one time told me they won't accept you so don't I wouldn't even waste my time.
acerx7 4 years ago
One more thing I was an EMT for over 2 years and this health care system is so screwed up its ridiculous. I found it funny I was helping these people get to hospitals when they were injured and sick and here I am can't even go to the hospital myself because I coudln't afford health insurance so I have to go to a third world country to get my medicine like the part where he took the emergency workers to Cuba, I think it was Cuba. Ironic huh?
acerx7 4 years ago
Extraordinarily. Such is the power structure in the US. I've seen anti-communist/socialist videos made by the US, and it goes from one extreme to another - pure fear mongering. I would call Australia's public health-care system 'socialised medicine'. We are a high tax country but we all enjoy a higher quality of life for it too. I went for an eye test today at the optometrists, and it was fully 'bulk-billed' to medicare - I didn't pay a cent.
MikeT2005 4 years ago
My Law of Financial Transactions class had lecture from the Official Trustee (the person who administers and supervises bankruptcies in our state) and he said that he's overseen bankruptcies for doctors, lawyers, financial managers, engineers, scientists. They're not immune to being hit hard by bad times. So our healthcare system is there for them too. Not only that, but socialised medicine yeilds benefits to companies in the form of superior productivity too.
MikeT2005 4 years ago
I'm a tutor, no longer work as an EMT because it was giving me ulcers, and every year I have several kids that go to class without glasses because their parents can't afford it and they have so much trouble in class because of it, its ridiculous. Your lucky. By the way my brother was in the Navy he went to Australia and loved it says it is one of the places he would go back to.
acerx7 4 years ago
given the fact that your PM is an ally of Bush, what makes you think that an asylum would be plausible?
IraqVetNY 4 years ago
Because we're not cunts? I dunno.
MikeT2005 4 years ago
Well I was asking an honest question. I really don't think an asylum would be seriously considered by the Aussie government just for COs and draft dodgers. I wish them the best though.
IraqVetNY 4 years ago
The government might not consider it... but knowing how Australians think, I know that people would be willing to hide US citizens so they can avoid a draft. We don't believe in it. When the enemies invading your shores, sure, okay, draft people.
But drafting people to send them to a far away country - no way.
MikeT2005 4 years ago
I detest draft dodgers. I take back what I said earlier. When I think about Dick Cheney, who had five draft deferments because he "had other priorities," I loathe anyone who'd get themselves out of combat and let their peers get sent into harm's way. COs on the other hand have a legitimate cause and I think that they should begin their application for CO status ASAP.
IraqVetNY 4 years ago
Well in my opinion, someone shouldn't be forced to fight a war that they don't believe in. Iraq war was a load of bollocks from the outset. Never posed a threat at all.
MikeT2005 4 years ago
I sympathize but I think that Afghanistan is a legitimate fight and that we need more men for those battles. And I think that right or wrong aside every citizen is required to serve their country. That's part of the citizenship oath. It's what John Locke called tacit consent.
IraqVetNY 4 years ago
I have very different ideas of nationality, patriotism and citizenship then. I don't think I have to serve my country in anyway. I can be in any country in the world so long as I obey it's laws. And are you really serving your country? You might be serving your country when there is a direct threat to your nations people and it's sovereignty - but in the absence of a direct threat, any engagement cannot be considered service to the country.
MikeT2005 4 years ago
that is fucking bull shit u live in this country and you get ur freedom and when your country is in need becuase they dont have anough people to protect them you are going to say that no i dont have to. that is a load of bull shit i think if the draft came around the would join the army volunteerly becuase i am an american and i am proud to be. i will fight for my country when they need me.
stoberboy 4 years ago
I'm sorry but I don't think 'freedom' is something I should owe a debt to ANYONE for. And I don't see how flying to the other side of the world to fight a war against an enemy that doesn't threaten my countries shorelines has ANYTHING to do with defending my freedom.
If you think you're in debt for your freedom then you aren't truly free.
MikeT2005 4 years ago
you were born free from the moment you first set eyes on the world...man has corrupted life in general! there wont be a draft if there is one everyone in the U.S would protest.
Lateralus1988 4 years ago
tell me what you are fighting for first.
MontageMachine 4 years ago
i know the communists, the collectivists, the statists, etc. LOOOVE the idea of involuntary servitude, but here is the thing, i do not owe politicians one single ounce of my flesh or one single second of my life. i challenge you to prove such a debt. the military draft is outright slavery. "wherever there is sacrifice there are those collecting the sacrificial offerings. the man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking in terms of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master."
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
So the US gets invaded by China and you book it to Canada eh?
danboyd12 3 years ago
in considering whether a military draft is an acceptable government policcy, it is first necessary to ask yourself a very fundamental question regarding the very purpose of government to begin with. is the purpose of government to a) abolish individual rights, or b) protect and maintain individual rights. a military draft is incompatible with the latter.
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
"in considering whether a military draft is an acceptable government policcy" government law is not subject to ones personal opininion and your arguement is a excellent case of why not. While I can only speculate on what would of happened during WW2 if no draft had been implimented I would say there is at least some possability that you could be speaking German now.
danboyd12 3 years ago
ooops to many beers one personal opinion = one persons opinion
danboyd12 3 years ago
what the fuck is "government law"? individuals make laws and individuals enforce those laws upon other individuals. despite what your state worshipping mind may have you believe, there is such thing as unacceptable and immoral policy. apparently you are under the popular persuasion that individual rights do not exist, and thus the individuals who make the rules are by no means accountable to their job description.
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
The point I am saying is that you as a individual will not descide what the government is going to dictate simply because thats what you think because it always takes more then 1. If you cherish your individual rights so much why are you afriad to fight for them? If the US gets invaded and we dont do the draft because its "illegal" and we lose what are you going to do? I agree that the draft has been misused and never used in a situation it should of been but sometimes you just have to fight.
danboyd12 3 years ago
if YOU cherish individual rights, then why on earth would you possibly advocate their systematic elimination? involuntary servitude is the NEGATION of individual rights. it is immoral. it is collectivism. it is downright unacceptable. the idea that we must defend individual rights by disregarding and systematically destroying them is absurd. and besides, war is never conducted for national security, or in the interest of individuals other than those who benefit from it.
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
Ok so China invades the US and you book it to Canada is pretty much what you are saying?
danboyd12 3 years ago
i'm pretty much saying that china couldn't invade the u.s. if involuntary servitude was abolished.
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
So we abolish invoulantry servitude on the basis that it infrignes on indivual rights and our military will always be able to deal with whatever threat comes to rise for all eternity? If you really are that good at predicting the future you should run for a political office.
danboyd12 3 years ago
i am that good at predicting the future. no country with nuculear technology has EVER been invaded by another state. those countries that do possess nuculear technology yet engage in war are doing so in either preemption or interventionism, but the reason for going to war, consequentially kidnapping and condemning thousands of innocent young men to their deaths, NEVER has anything to do whatsoever with national security. there are people who benefit from war and people who are hurt by it.
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
I do not place the same level of comfort that you do in nuclear weapons. I do not think that arguement would survive the next 200 years.
danboyd12 3 years ago
it's difficult to fathom the extent to which a person must be criminally insane to conceive the notion that it is acceptable to employ slavery as a means to any end regardless of what that end may be. involuntary servitude is immoral and unacceptable. period. if humanity had abided by that self evident principle, there would have not been a roman empire, a soviet empire, a nazi empire, and now, since we hold military occupations on every continent and dozens of countries, an american empire.
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
even in your hypothetical fantasy world where governments are responsible in their kidnapping, enslavement, and condemning of individuals to death, and where industrial empires do not draft for frivolous interventionist and preemptive pursuits, slavery is STILL immoral. plain and simple. i do not have the right to force you to kill anybody. you do not have the right to force me to kill anybody. nobody has the right to kidnap and force people to kill other people. any child could tell you that.
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
and this is all besides the fact that no state will invade another state armed with nuculear weapons. the world knows the extent to which the bomb devastated the japanese civilian populations of hiroshima and nagasaki... and japan has never even invaded this country! nuculear arms are a significant disincentive to deter attack. and besides, fiat currencies don't last a hundred let alone two hundred years. they always collapse.
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
Has the draft been misused? Yes. There is no such thing as a perfect government. I agree with the agruement that the draft has been misused. However its purpose of tasking to the people to the military in times of need is sound. Has it ever been used in a true time of need? No. Nuclear weapons act as a extreme detterent I agree. I will use Iran as a example. They know we could kick there ass but that will not stop them from fighting. During the cold war our military was double
danboyd12 3 years ago
the size it is now. Even if nuclear weapons shield us from 99.9% of any situation that would topple the US government and conquer the United States the .1% chance that we will need a larger military should not be discarded. You know like the saying chance favors the prepared.
danboyd12 3 years ago
again, i can't stress this enough. regardless of the circumstances, slavery should NOT be used as a means to an end.
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
Even if it results in the destruction of the US?
danboyd12 3 years ago
the ends don't justify the means. sacrificing american principles to save the union is the equivelant of destroying it anyway. and as ive already mentioned, there is no scenario in which it would be necessary for national security. every historical example of the draft's implementation has been for imperialstic or interventionist pursuits. always.
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
Personally I highly doubt the draft will ever be used again. Times have changed and the days of conventional warfare are gone. I do however feel that we should retain the ability to draft and any valid reason for using it will meet little or no resistance as most people will agree it is required.
danboyd12 3 years ago
whether most people accept it or not it remains morally repugnant.
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
People fight wars on the basis of morales and it really does not matter if it is repugnant.
danboyd12 3 years ago
...you do realize the entire justification for republican government rests on objective moral convictions, dont you? of course it matters if something is moral or immoral!
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
And you descide what is moral and immoral on what basis? What makes you more right then the other guy with a diffrent view?
danboyd12 3 years ago
unless you are wholly ignorant of metaphysics, and you are completely oblivious to reality, you can guess that slavery is immoral, rude, and a little mean. slavery is wrong. plain and simple. no person has the right to force another person into his servitude involuntarily. you don't have the right to do so to another person, and another person does not have the right to do so to you.
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
I agree slavery is wrong. But to equate slavery to the draft during a political speech would probably invoke a strong back lash from the black people of America. While I realize that you think everything you say is true because thats what you believe it does not make you right. In fact if the US had to involve morales in every descion that has been made since its founding the US would not be what it is today. Welcome to the real world.
danboyd12 3 years ago
i'm not equating the draft to anything. i am simply stating what it is. involuntary servitude, that is a nonconsensual relationship in which you are forced at gunpoint to serve a master, is slavery. that is the definition of slavery. involuntary servitude. if you still maintain that you do in fact have the right to kidnap someone and force them to kill for you, then you are criminally insane. i don't know how i can say it any more simply than that. it is self evident.
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
and yes, you are absolutely correct. the U.S. would NOT be what it is today. we would have sound monetary foundations, a productive economy in which investment is based on savings, a foreign policy of noninterventionism, no income tax, no immigration problem(since there would be no welfare state), corporations would not find it easier to loot the public treasury than to simply provide a good on the market, and there would not be a popular resentment of this country culminating globally.
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
it is socially and economically beneficial to act morally. empires collapse when they make the transition from republic to democracy. freedom and market based economies culminate preferable socio-economic conditions in which personal economic incentives are allowed to manifest themselves. rome and the united states were both built on relatively free foundations, and every historical example you see, capitalism produces prosperity.
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
unfortunately what happened to rome is exactly what you are seeing in this society. it started with economic regulations and then they adopted heavy taxes on income. the emergence of the welfare state soon followed with the unchecked growth of government and the abandonment of their constitution. their international military holdings proved too costly to maintain and their entitlement programs also proved unsustainable.
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
I am curious how do you think doing the right thing at every corner turned out for Jesus?
danboyd12 3 years ago
...are those going to be the words of your henchmen before they bust down my door and force ME to kill for YOU? none of my metaphysical opinions regarding ethics and morality are in any way whatsoever based off of the perverted altruistic and violent doctrine of christianity. some mythological texts can provide profound philosophical realizations, but they are in no way historical documents. what does jesus have to do with roman, russian, german, greek, and american imperialism through slavery?
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
Well fiction or not Jesus did what he thought was right and in the end I would say it did not work out so great for him. If your views of how things should be were implimented I do not think it would go as well as you think.
danboyd12 3 years ago
it is not necessary to speculate. again, history has demonstrated that in conditions of freedom, where individuals are left hinderance free to pursue their own rational self interests in the form of property, prosperity is the result. it's not some fantastic unsubstantiated theory. freedom works in financial and social interractions between individuals. capitalism works. freedom works. simple as that. the elimination of force and fraud from human relationships is the extent of my principles.
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
your employment of mythological fairytales in an ill attempt to justify a policy of systematic kidnapping and enslavement is absurd.
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
the regulations, taxation, and institutionalized slavery created economic stagnation. in its final years, crowds reportedly roamed the streets demanding gold and bread from the government. it is perfectly correct to assert, "rome collapsed because of its own immorality." only under conditions of freedom can society, economy, and humanity flourish.
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
only a foreign policy reminiscient of rome, the soviet union, and the nazi empire. it is not necessary to defend a geographical territory though.
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
iran is not going to invade the united states. iran has not threatened to invade the united states. empires collapse from within. you should be more concerned with socially and economically restrictive domestic policies and especially the inevitable gloomy fate of our currency. at any rate, no, slavery is not necessary to defend a country. it never has been and it never will be. involuntary servitude is only critical to a foreign policy of interventionism and nation building.
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
i'll tell you what hitler would NOT have done to the soviet union had they been producing nuculear weapons in the forties.
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
"governments" are established to "protect and maintain individual rights." when the rulemakers implement policy wildly contradictory of this expressly stated purpose, then the policy is not only immoral but illogical and unacceptable. and besides, the draft is illegal anyway.
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
the thirteenth amendment states, "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." the draft is involuntary servitude, and thus violates the constitution.
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
if there had been no draft, then there would have been no nazi germany, but that's another popular fallacy. nazi germany was doomed to collapse at its conception. its command economy was unsustainable. what would have happened if we hadn't entered wwii is that we would have sat back, watched europe wear itself out, and then watched the entire thing crumble.
ProprietorOfSelf 3 years ago
hellz yez.
lordblazer 3 years ago
Basically what you're saying is that you're expected to go and fight for a country simply because you're born into it. Where's the country I can go to and not have to fight on the whim of it's leaders? And I say it's leaders because people rarely get a vote on wether a war is fought or not. And rarely is there symmetric information. Governments always know more than the people. Hence people can't make an informed decision even if there was a vote.
MikeT2005 4 years ago
The paradigm is often that nation states serve their people as a whole. But I challenge that paradigm. When the leaders of countries like the the US seem to always be decendant from very wealthy families with wide ranging social and economic ties, you begin to wonder where those nations governments stop serving their people and start serving the interests of minority groups.
MikeT2005 4 years ago
And I'm not saying that out of some hair-brained conspiracy theory - I'm saying that out of how much money people have made off this war. Suppliers of military goods and equipment, contractors, private security firms, construction companies and oil companies have all made a killing. The war has benefited the shareholders of so many companies, who happen to be the rich and wealthy of the US, who also are the people who make campaign contributions.
MikeT2005 4 years ago
We know now for certain that intelligence reports were manipulated to get the US (and the rest of us) into Iraq. A pre-emptive war was fought on that manipulated intelligence. Now we need to ask who benefited from that manipulated intelligence? Certainly not the soldiers who've fought the war or the people who've lost love ones. Or the Iraqi people who died needlessly.
MikeT2005 4 years ago
And certainly not the average American going about their daily lives.
MikeT2005 4 years ago
Therein lies the problem. After 9/11 the MSM was too timid to directly challenge the Administration in its path to war. People were ignorant. Congress rubberstamped the war like they rubberstamped everything.
IraqVetNY 4 years ago
Sad state of affairs isn't it.
MikeT2005 4 years ago
I still think that if more people in society had a connection with the military, it would change society for good. Fewer and fewer politicians every election cycle have served in uniform. I blame this for the rush to war in 2003.
IraqVetNY 4 years ago