Right on, Patrick. I realize this is old, but, it is still very much a topic.
A personal private views on such issues as this should, in my opinion, remain their personal view. What is good for the country or Americans is not necessarily what i prescribe to myself. The common good is to have health care that takes care of all of Americans, not just the ones who agree with a certain opionion or are a certain political party. We are all Americans, not just some of us, all of US.
@DalisYT...Where do you get your insurance from? Cigna? Blue Cross? Guess what, it doesn't matter, they cover abortion. Maybe not your plan specifically, but the company does. You're contributing to their profits. Companies that provide money for abortion are being funded by you. There's not separate pools for abortion and non-abortion profits. If you truly believed your bullshit you would drop your health care. Are you willing to do that or remain a hypocrite? Your choice, god is watching.
artvandelay3911: Since you asked, I am uninsured. You assume much. You know what? I would love love love health insurance and to be able to go to a decent doctor, especially at my age (30). I am a strong supporter and campaigner for health care reform in my state. I do not however support abortion funding or coverage. I'll type slowly: abortion...is...not...health...care.
I really can't get over just how stupid Patrick Kennedy is. He has to have a 24 IQ The bishops said they would support it if it wasn't undermined by the use of public funds for abortion. What "I can't understand for the life of me" is how Rhode Island keeps electing this moron. He must've just learned what a "red herring" was and had to use it and I imagine the phrase "dissent and discord" or "dis dissent and discord" as Kennedy said was in a Democratic talking points flyer someone read to him.
Leftwing strawman argument: the church is for killing the poor by not supporting abortion. That's a fellacious attack since it's a distorted version of where the church stands. That is, the church is for healthcare, but not the abortion clause the lefties insist upon keeping. In short, the church is for saving EVERYBODY-the poor & the babies! Spinning it around, the lefties are definitely for killing babies, with or without a healthcare bill. So it must be deduced that lefties are for murder.
I asked a friend of mine who works for the Democrats in Nebraska, if she had to choose between a health care bill with abortion funding but no public option or one with a public option but no abortion funding, which would she choose. I expected her to balk, but right away she said the first one. In Nebraska, they're preparing to CRUCIFY Ben Nelson in the next election even though he was a 2-term governor and on important Ag committees, and when they do, they'll hand it to the Republicans.
But but but, a public option will not fund abortions. The Stupak Amendment prevents private insurance from funding abortion not just the public option, BTW, the GOP are still making CIGNA profits even though they dropped the abortion funding from their plan. CIGNA still covers abortions for other plans. Isn't that a little hypocritical to be paying money to an organization that still funds other peoples abortions? Shouldn't the GOP be looking for a carrier that doesn't fund abortions for anyone?
(continued) I'm just demonstrating that the Democrat Party loves the abortion industry more than winning elections (apparently). I'm not nor would I deign to be a member of the Republican Party. I'm a Roman Catholic and a lesbian, so those things alone would dissuade me. Additionally, that party supports war, the death penalty, and their anti-abortion record is dismal - basically everything the Catholic Church is against. Abortions actually go up when the GOP is in the White House.
well said bk: sheeps who go to church often cannot discern differences of the same morals they spout. example: catholic father sends son to war and dies, while hes out yelling at women that abortion is killing. he comes home to sons pine box carrying an abortion sign. figure out what sanity is
Exactly. You know what they say about Catholics. Life begins at conception and ends at birth. Once born and you're young, you're just sexual candy to them. If they make it into their teens, you're a soldier to die for us in these wars of crusades hidden by calling them "for our freedom".
50,000 die every year because they are poor and can't afford to go to the Hospital. Bishop Tobin believes in Situational Ethics. Killing people because they are poor is OK, But Abortion is wrong. The Bishop is wrong. He believes in good evil. Stopping health care reform to campaign against abortion. The dead that die, from this day forward are people he murdered. There is no such thing as good evil.
That's a steaming hot pile of ..... When was the last time you were at an emergency room, and have seen someone in dire need of medical treatment being refused? The church isn't even against the health care bill. They want reform. They are against abortions, as the operation is killing a life. If you don't think so, go witness one.
But who pays for that emergency room visit? You and I from government subsidies to these hospitals which is affecting our budget more than if we had universal health care. This is about a few privileged people who don't want to wait a few extra minutes to see their doctor so fuck everyone else. Not to mention that health insurance industry couldnt rape us anymore. You're nothing more than a tool for Dick Armey and the Health Insurance industry and their laughing at you. Nothing more nothing less
artvandelay3911: You have the audacity to complain about your taxes paying for someone's emergency room visit and then complain over your erroneous perception that the Church opposes health care reform (which it doesn't)? The Catholic Church is the second largest social service provider in the United States after the federal government. For millions of Americans, the Catholic Church IS health care.
And they're also vindictive little bitches. If a pro gay marriage amendment passes in DC, they will not feed the homeless. Such haters. I love Catholics. They are so quick attack others but refuse to look in the mirror. Pedophiles bad. Unless it's a priest then lets try and cover it up. Value of life? Catholics really don't care. Condoms are bad even in Africa where they can save millions of lives from Aids. We don't need Catholic health care, it's deadly.
Ok, one at a time: The Catholic Church will continue to fulfill its social service contracts in Washington and is not threatening to drop them but is asking for an conscientious objection exemption to the anti-discrimination bill currently in debate. The City of Washington is threatening to drop their contracts if they won't adopt children out to same-sex couples, even though this is a violation of their religious teachings. This, by the way, is an unconstitutional breach of the First Amendment.
3) Condoms in Africa? Don't get me started. Condoms are what people suggest when they want to act like they're helping but wouldn't step one foot on that continent. They mail them by the box to the Vatican, to Africa, while people die who've never had sex. The Catholic Church is actually on the ground in Africa fighting HIV/AIDS for the long haul so the patients don't become resistant to the meds. Epidemiologists know enough to know that condoms are not a sound strategy with those populations.
...3) Health workers employ the ABC method (abstinence, being faithful, condoms) to prevent infection but dropped C because they were encouraging promiscuity and compromised quarantine efforts. You have to gear the strategy to the population. What would you suggest when they're raping albinos? Wear a condom? What about when the patient has an opportunistic airborne infection like TB? Wear a condom and don't exhale? Your prejudice clouds sound policy and people die. Educate yourself.
I said this before and I will say it again. You pay for abortions unless you drop your healthcare coverage. Every insurance company covers abortions in certain plans. You pay these insurance companies with your dollars. There is not a separate pool for abortion and non-abortion premium profits. Every dollar that you send Cigna, Blue Cross, Keiser, funds abortions. You're only option is to drop your health care or you're a hypocrite. What's it gonna be? You gonna drop it or kill babies?
I said this before and I will say it again. I am one of those uninsured Americans. No American should have to choose between health care (which is a human right outlined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in the 1946 United Nations Charter) and funding abortions (which denies the right to life of the unborn child).
Happy Thanksgiving to all! Our country has been bountifully blessed by God. Lets keep it that way by voting for the strongest leaders, not mamby pamby politicians who go around apologizing for events that made us great.
This ass wipe of a Bishop has the audacity to speak of MORALS! The Clergy who sexually abuses young boys and has sex with their female parishioners and preaches abstinence. Sexual MISFITS, who are drawn to the clergy, should keep their noses out of other peoples crotches. These are NOT gay men. These sick mother fuckers hide behind gay bashing to avert your attention. They should be burned at the stake!
Read the latest by searching Google: Church in Ireland Said to Have Covered Up Abuse
This whole thing was started by Kennedy's poor taste in comments he made against the Catholic church's disagreeing with this one part of the health care bill. Why is everyone in turn hating the Catholic church for it...to the point of tirades onto other issues that have nothing to do with the first? How one sided.
No, this started when the Bishop refused him communion. Get your facts straight. The Catholic church is nothing more than a vindictive little bitch. They want to be involved in politics, let them pay taxes. Bottom line, pay up or shut up.
everyone seems to be getting angry over long-standing catholic/evangelical beliefs...including patrick himself. All he had to do was leave the church if he didn't share those beliefs, but he didn't. He instead basically criticized the church for them. You people have to understand that by forcing federal dollars to fund abortion, you are forcing these people to commit "murder" with their own money. That is the only reason why they won't go for it. How could you blame them for that?
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I left the church...
They're sick. One of the greatest advantages to leaving the RCC was knowing they would never be able to victimize my children - they wouldn't be able to pork my son or demean my daughters with their misogyny.
Umm, this "Catholic/Evangelical" thing you speak of. Evangelicals don't consider Catholics as true Christians. they really don't like Catholics. Understand your religion before you speak of it. Catholics and Evangelicals are two different things. Just ask a Baptist, they'll look down on you.
The dropping bombs comment was in response to a previous posting. The US govt legalized abortion in Roe v Wade, which enables women to kill their babies on the dime of US taxpayers. Kennedy is a proponant of that position in direct conflict with his church. The "Just War Doctrine" constitutes the just defense of a nation against an aggressor. Likewise, I can't reason with people brainwashed by the world orthodoxy of uncertainty.
I think they are equally wrong. Numbers are wonderful things, but killing 50,000 a year for 20 years is a million people. Research indicates that the number is twice that. So a million every ten years are dead because they can't afford health care. I don't do degrees of evil. Abortion is wrong, stopping health care reform as a political strategy is just as wrong. There is no such thing as Good Evil. No amount of parsing or intellectual dishonesty changes that.
Harvard University did a study and they estimated that 45,000 to 50,000 people died every year because they can't afford health care. One of the guys I work with had our company health insurance. A grave illness, showed him the short comings of our health insurance system. He was personally billed for over $12,000: expenses that are not covered they said. He doesn't have it. Now these Doctors are threatening to Garnish his wages. It will probably cost him his home. Thank You Bishop Tobin
Sympathies for your coworker. However, "In 2005 (the most recent year for which there is reliable data), approximately 1.21 million abortions took place in the U.S., ...an estimated 1.29 million in 2002, 1.31 million in 2000 and 1.36 million in 1996. From 1973 through 2005, more than 45 million...abortions have occurred in the U.S.," (AGI). Thank you Patrick Kennedy. P.S. Given those staggering abortion figures, Kennedy has no shame to whine about not receiving Holy Communion. Pathetic!
Patrick Kennedy doesn't have to vote in defense of unborn human life to be member of Congress. But he does have to vote that way to be a member of the Catholic Church. Shame on him for forcing Bishop Thomas Tobin to publicly remind him of something even a child can understand. Bishop Tobin is not telling Cong. Kennedy to vote like a Catholic. He is basically telling him to stop pretending to be one.
In America, no citizen is obliged to have religious or moral beliefs to serve in elected office. But elected officials claiming to have religious or moral beliefs, are obligated to act and vote consistent with their claimed beliefs to worthy of any credibility, trust, or respect.
hello pat: thats is nonsense. i can be a lawyer, judge etc and still believe in anything or nothing (atheism) i want. we are a tolerant, free society. i separate my job with what i believe.
Do you know what the Catholic church in America is doing with pedophile priest? They claim they don't know where they are or reassign them overseas. Take action now people. If the American arm of justice can track down Roman Polanski then they can track down the pedophile priest.
Everyone needs to call the IRS and demand that religious organizations pay taxes. Especially the Catholic and Mormon church. They are directly involved in our politics. It's time they own up. The laws are clear. For religious organizations to remain tax exempt they must refrain from politics. This is not a free speech issue. This is direct involvement in politics. It is illegal if they are not paying taxes. Call your representative and demand action NOW!
50,000 people die every year because they have no health insurance. Archbishop Tobin has said this kind murder is OK. I would just tell the Bishop that there is no such thing as good evil, ALL EVIL IS EVIL!
The Church belongs to us, not some egomaniacal, arrogant, cruel, greedy, Vicious Christian like Bishop Tobin.
50,000 people die from no health insurance?? Where are these figures coming from. I would like a source to refer to.
How about all of the people that die from bad health habits, eating too much sugar, oils, fats, lack of exercise, smoking, drinking, other drugs..... Then their doctors put them on medications that cost a fortune to let them continue thinking that they don't need to change their habits.
Maybe you should consider the cost of eating healthy when it comes to poorer families. A $1.50 box of Mac N Cheese goes a long way for a single parent family three. His number is incorrect though. It's 44,000. The number has been out there for months now and no is denying it.
There are other means of getting healthy foods, of course they are being legislated out of existence as well. People can grow their own produce, and fish. There are community gardens to help provide the space to grow food. There is charity. There are a number of ways to help the poor get healthy food, but often people overlook these. There are also a lot of people that just don't know what a healthy diet, or lifestyle is. Hint: Mac N Cheese is not a healthy meal!
What would those other means be? Charity? then you call them leaches. You are so full of shit. This charity you speak of, is it in the backwoods of Kentucky or middle America? Unbelievable. Fuck everyone else, right?
There's a lot of charity, and people that use it are not leaches if they are using it when the fall on hard times, and are trying to pick themselves back up. It's when people use social services, with no inclination to do better for themselves that they become leaches on society. Our government was not designed to be a force to be used to take from one person, and give to another. There be more voluntary charity if the system wasn't being abused.
oh wow, this kennedy is pretty stupid. Obviously the church could not support legislation that uses tax dollars to kill innocent human beings. The church simply wants those lives protected and then it will provide its full backing to health care reform. Why do liberals insist on abortion being taxpayer funded when half the country thinks its murder? If you think its so important go fundraise for it. It is rarely medically necessary. 98% are not for medical reasons.
There's no blackmail here. Patches took this to the public forum. The Bishop was responding to it. If Patches doesn't agree with the fundamentals of the catholic religion, he should find a faith that he does agree with. If he wants to be a good catholic, he is morally obligated to practice his faith. If he can't do that as a congressman, maybe he's in the wrong job, and should quit. Either way, it states something about his character. Why would anyone want him representing them?
hello RH: you need to listen to this video again. mr kennedy follows the law, period. thats is his job. abortion is not criminal. the church follows morals, not law. .
It's not really what it's about. The church doesn't support a bill for tax funded abortion. Patches is confused between his faith, and his career.
If he did follow the law, would he have crashed his car a couple of years back in DC while on that bender? He has shown himself time, and time again to be of a corrupt character. He should figure himself out first, before representing anyone else.
hello RH please stick to the point. mr kennedy has to follow the law and the church is mingling with law when it should stay with morals. this is one reason church membership overall is declining, they think they can dictate morals to all.
You talk about me sticking to the point, you are the one bringing up church issues, such as declining numbers, and what they think they can do. They are not trying to rewrite the laws. Just because you may not believe in god, or the catholic church, and look for guidance, doesn't mean that others don't. Abortion, is morally unacceptable to the church. They do not support a bill which includes abortion, and they are obligated to let their practitioners know their stance.
hello rh: this video is about the church and telling Kennedy their values. its about law. it is not criminal to perform abortions. most of us do not think its murder.
guatay - the bishop's responsibility is to get Catholics to follow their faith - and to try to get non-Catholics to listen to their message and convert.
Mr. Kennedy's defense of those rights is not wrong nor is it violating his beliefs. He is not performing abortions nor telling people to get them. He is simply allowing them to exercise rights they already have.
The fact that bishops aren't getting their message across shouldn't fall on the backs of the politicians to correct.
DalisYT - its very clear to me what the bishop is doing, and you are correct that the bishop has not violated his civil rights or committed a crime - at least not a crime as defined by our civil code of law.
On the other hand, Mr. Kennedy has broken no commandment and has nothing to confess. Believing that others not of your religion have the right to practice their beliefs - assuming they have any - is no sin. The bishop is wrong and is actually the one committing the sin here.
The Bishop is exercising his responsibility as it pertains to a church precept. Kennedy, as a professing Catholic, is under that precept, yet he arrogantly dictates his infanticide position to the church, expecting Her to change. The Church doesn't recognize Patrick or any of the Kennedys as greater than its founder, our Lord Jesus Christ.
catholics wonder why they have drooped to only 18% in USA & why they do not show up for church these days. oh by the way please remember to give to the march of dimes this holiday season sad what lack of healthcare does. 12% infant mortality rate I just gave please give thanks folks.
wow the popes and Bishops write laws i heard it wasn't there job a ploy because they cant get people to church only way to preach to us is publicly & to try to involve themselves in politics no church & state.
Declining church numbers is not an issue of this topic. The church writing laws isn't an issue, since they are not writing the laws. Let's not forget that it was Patches that took this to a public forum, Not the Bishop, whom was just responding to him. We do have separation of church and state. Keep in mind the Bishop also has the right of freedom of speech, which he can use to try and sway opinions. There's nothing wrong with that.
Who helped write the Stupak amendment? The Bishops and their lobbyist. Who poured money into PROP 8? Mormons, Catholics and Evangelicals. It's time to start taxing religious organization. It's not just freedom of speech. It's getting directly involved in American politics. That's absolutely fine if they want to be involved in politics, I have no problem with that. But, they must pay taxes. If they did, that would take care of California's budget crisis.
Thanks. This has been boiling over for me the past year. These extremist have been OPENLY involved in politics since the 2008 elections. Especially the Prop 8 crap. They're true teaching teach tolerance, love and peace yet all we see from them is hate and discrimination. As I said, I have no problem with them being involved and influencing political decision. But if they're going to then some of that hush money they are paying because of pedophile priest must go to paying taxes. Call the IRS!!!!
stottob: why? They've committed no crime by denying a religious sacrament. They haven't violated his civil rights.
This may be unclear to non-Catholics, but Bishop Tobin advised Kennedy not to receive communion because he was actually protecting him. In Catholicism, it's a mortal sin to receive the body of Christ if you haven't confessed first. According to his religion, he was doing him a favor.
It was denied being a right when religious extremist interpreted the bible to suit it's own needs. Don't get me wrong, I'm a catholic and a believer. What I don't believe in is how extreme the ALL religions have moved in the past 100 years. This is not just my thinking, look at that stats. More and more people are leaving the church because the extreme stances and the interpretations.
The 1'st Amendment in the Bill of Rights, freedom of speech! The Bishop doesn't have anymore of a say in the law than any other citizen. He does have a right to respond to Patches allegations, and to try and sway his practitioners.
Do me a favor and educate yourself with what you just said. I mean really....go back and do some research......and until you actually Know what your talking about? Do us all a favor and stop making such ridiculous claims. This is the problem with America today. People spurt out "separation of church and state" so freely without even knowing that that meant and why it was put there. Idiots. Get educated.
Red herring!? What an idiot! Where's the dignity for the unborn human person? He must think himself greater than the church. Because Kennedy is in a position of voting authority with consequences that negatively effect God's/church's stance on the right to life, he should be vociferously excommunicated such that the entire public would know, without a doubt, that God/church don't play by man's ever-changing rules! Even kings have been thrown out, so throw this bum out loudly & assuredly!
Holy wars? Naw, the muslims were wreaking havoc on Europe by piracy/invasion. By the sword, they took the Balkins, occupied Spain, murdered 1000's in Italy/France. Europeans were starving as a result of interrupted trade on the Mediterranian as Christian N. Africa, et. al., fell to the invaders. All these & more incited the crusades. When you talk abt holy wars, the muslims are the premier offenders, becomming the 1st world civilization through invasion. Study history, you idiot!
Of course "individual" Catholics have served their county proudly! The preceding posts alleged that the Catholic Church as an "organization" dropped bombs on women & children, which is argumentum ad hominum. Argumentum ad hominum consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking a belief of the person making the argument, rather than by addressing the argument. The argument is Pat Kennedy's communion denial, not the church dropping bombs. Stay focused, don't change the subject.
Kennedy is part of an organization called the US government, which is secular. That organization is not aborting babies, just as "the Church" didn't drop the bombs. Yet, I'd think a good Catholic should refuse to drop the bombs or be denied communion, as they have killed.
Anyway, I can't reason with people brainwashed bu faith.
Fanning the flames of "dissent" effing unreal. Patrick is the Shemp of the Kennedys, This is the guy, that drove a car into a barrier outside of the Congress, he was so bombed, drunk out of his mind, he tole the police 'he was going to vote" I guess for another round of drinks.
Yet the police let him go. Anybody else would have been handcuffed, and stuffed, right into the drunk tank
Right on, Patrick. I realize this is old, but, it is still very much a topic.
A personal private views on such issues as this should, in my opinion, remain their personal view. What is good for the country or Americans is not necessarily what i prescribe to myself. The common good is to have health care that takes care of all of Americans, not just the ones who agree with a certain opionion or are a certain political party. We are all Americans, not just some of us, all of US.
rmontena 1 year ago
This asshole sidestepped the issue in the reporters question. Kennedy did not address funding for abortions in the health care bill.
capevideo 2 years ago
DICKHEADS = CATHOLIC CHURCH
smudoshi 2 years ago
@DalisYT...Where do you get your insurance from? Cigna? Blue Cross? Guess what, it doesn't matter, they cover abortion. Maybe not your plan specifically, but the company does. You're contributing to their profits. Companies that provide money for abortion are being funded by you. There's not separate pools for abortion and non-abortion profits. If you truly believed your bullshit you would drop your health care. Are you willing to do that or remain a hypocrite? Your choice, god is watching.
artvandelay3911 2 years ago
artvandelay3911: Since you asked, I am uninsured. You assume much. You know what? I would love love love health insurance and to be able to go to a decent doctor, especially at my age (30). I am a strong supporter and campaigner for health care reform in my state. I do not however support abortion funding or coverage. I'll type slowly: abortion...is...not...health...care.
DalisYT 2 years ago
I really can't get over just how stupid Patrick Kennedy is. He has to have a 24 IQ The bishops said they would support it if it wasn't undermined by the use of public funds for abortion. What "I can't understand for the life of me" is how Rhode Island keeps electing this moron. He must've just learned what a "red herring" was and had to use it and I imagine the phrase "dissent and discord" or "dis dissent and discord" as Kennedy said was in a Democratic talking points flyer someone read to him.
MReay8226 2 years ago
Because Rhode Island Liberals are as Stupid as Patrick is. thats why they Vote for him.
508307 2 years ago
@508307
Agreed. Seems like the whole nation is suffering from Rhode Island-itis.
Cheers!
guatay 2 years ago 3
Leftwing strawman argument: the church is for killing the poor by not supporting abortion. That's a fellacious attack since it's a distorted version of where the church stands. That is, the church is for healthcare, but not the abortion clause the lefties insist upon keeping. In short, the church is for saving EVERYBODY-the poor & the babies! Spinning it around, the lefties are definitely for killing babies, with or without a healthcare bill. So it must be deduced that lefties are for murder.
guatay 2 years ago 2
I asked a friend of mine who works for the Democrats in Nebraska, if she had to choose between a health care bill with abortion funding but no public option or one with a public option but no abortion funding, which would she choose. I expected her to balk, but right away she said the first one. In Nebraska, they're preparing to CRUCIFY Ben Nelson in the next election even though he was a 2-term governor and on important Ag committees, and when they do, they'll hand it to the Republicans.
DalisYT 2 years ago
But but but, a public option will not fund abortions. The Stupak Amendment prevents private insurance from funding abortion not just the public option, BTW, the GOP are still making CIGNA profits even though they dropped the abortion funding from their plan. CIGNA still covers abortions for other plans. Isn't that a little hypocritical to be paying money to an organization that still funds other peoples abortions? Shouldn't the GOP be looking for a carrier that doesn't fund abortions for anyone?
artvandelay3911 2 years ago
(continued) I'm just demonstrating that the Democrat Party loves the abortion industry more than winning elections (apparently). I'm not nor would I deign to be a member of the Republican Party. I'm a Roman Catholic and a lesbian, so those things alone would dissuade me. Additionally, that party supports war, the death penalty, and their anti-abortion record is dismal - basically everything the Catholic Church is against. Abortions actually go up when the GOP is in the White House.
DalisYT 2 years ago
well said bk: sheeps who go to church often cannot discern differences of the same morals they spout. example: catholic father sends son to war and dies, while hes out yelling at women that abortion is killing. he comes home to sons pine box carrying an abortion sign. figure out what sanity is
nonthiestnc 2 years ago
Exactly. You know what they say about Catholics. Life begins at conception and ends at birth. Once born and you're young, you're just sexual candy to them. If they make it into their teens, you're a soldier to die for us in these wars of crusades hidden by calling them "for our freedom".
artvandelay3911 2 years ago
50,000 die every year because they are poor and can't afford to go to the Hospital. Bishop Tobin believes in Situational Ethics. Killing people because they are poor is OK, But Abortion is wrong. The Bishop is wrong. He believes in good evil. Stopping health care reform to campaign against abortion. The dead that die, from this day forward are people he murdered. There is no such thing as good evil.
bkohatl 2 years ago
That's a steaming hot pile of ..... When was the last time you were at an emergency room, and have seen someone in dire need of medical treatment being refused? The church isn't even against the health care bill. They want reform. They are against abortions, as the operation is killing a life. If you don't think so, go witness one.
RIHeron76 2 years ago
But who pays for that emergency room visit? You and I from government subsidies to these hospitals which is affecting our budget more than if we had universal health care. This is about a few privileged people who don't want to wait a few extra minutes to see their doctor so fuck everyone else. Not to mention that health insurance industry couldnt rape us anymore. You're nothing more than a tool for Dick Armey and the Health Insurance industry and their laughing at you. Nothing more nothing less
artvandelay3911 2 years ago
artvandelay3911: You have the audacity to complain about your taxes paying for someone's emergency room visit and then complain over your erroneous perception that the Church opposes health care reform (which it doesn't)? The Catholic Church is the second largest social service provider in the United States after the federal government. For millions of Americans, the Catholic Church IS health care.
DalisYT 2 years ago
And they're also vindictive little bitches. If a pro gay marriage amendment passes in DC, they will not feed the homeless. Such haters. I love Catholics. They are so quick attack others but refuse to look in the mirror. Pedophiles bad. Unless it's a priest then lets try and cover it up. Value of life? Catholics really don't care. Condoms are bad even in Africa where they can save millions of lives from Aids. We don't need Catholic health care, it's deadly.
artvandelay3911 2 years ago
Ok, one at a time: The Catholic Church will continue to fulfill its social service contracts in Washington and is not threatening to drop them but is asking for an conscientious objection exemption to the anti-discrimination bill currently in debate. The City of Washington is threatening to drop their contracts if they won't adopt children out to same-sex couples, even though this is a violation of their religious teachings. This, by the way, is an unconstitutional breach of the First Amendment.
DalisYT 2 years ago
2) Pedophiles bad. Yeah, no argument there.
DalisYT 2 years ago
3) Condoms in Africa? Don't get me started. Condoms are what people suggest when they want to act like they're helping but wouldn't step one foot on that continent. They mail them by the box to the Vatican, to Africa, while people die who've never had sex. The Catholic Church is actually on the ground in Africa fighting HIV/AIDS for the long haul so the patients don't become resistant to the meds. Epidemiologists know enough to know that condoms are not a sound strategy with those populations.
DalisYT 2 years ago
...3) Health workers employ the ABC method (abstinence, being faithful, condoms) to prevent infection but dropped C because they were encouraging promiscuity and compromised quarantine efforts. You have to gear the strategy to the population. What would you suggest when they're raping albinos? Wear a condom? What about when the patient has an opportunistic airborne infection like TB? Wear a condom and don't exhale? Your prejudice clouds sound policy and people die. Educate yourself.
DalisYT 2 years ago
I said this before and I will say it again. You pay for abortions unless you drop your healthcare coverage. Every insurance company covers abortions in certain plans. You pay these insurance companies with your dollars. There is not a separate pool for abortion and non-abortion premium profits. Every dollar that you send Cigna, Blue Cross, Keiser, funds abortions. You're only option is to drop your health care or you're a hypocrite. What's it gonna be? You gonna drop it or kill babies?
artvandelay3911 2 years ago
I said this before and I will say it again. I am one of those uninsured Americans. No American should have to choose between health care (which is a human right outlined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in the 1946 United Nations Charter) and funding abortions (which denies the right to life of the unborn child).
DalisYT 2 years ago
Happy Thanksgiving to all! Our country has been bountifully blessed by God. Lets keep it that way by voting for the strongest leaders, not mamby pamby politicians who go around apologizing for events that made us great.
Cheers!
guatay 2 years ago
Hitler said the same thing
artvandelay3911 2 years ago
@artvandelay3911
Nonsense. Please quote what Hitler said. If you can't, that's just plain argumentum ad hominim.
guatay 2 years ago
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This ass wipe of a Bishop has the audacity to speak of MORALS! The Clergy who sexually abuses young boys and has sex with their female parishioners and preaches abstinence. Sexual MISFITS, who are drawn to the clergy, should keep their noses out of other peoples crotches. These are NOT gay men. These sick mother fuckers hide behind gay bashing to avert your attention. They should be burned at the stake!
Read the latest by searching Google: Church in Ireland Said to Have Covered Up Abuse
TubeManTalk 2 years ago
This whole thing was started by Kennedy's poor taste in comments he made against the Catholic church's disagreeing with this one part of the health care bill. Why is everyone in turn hating the Catholic church for it...to the point of tirades onto other issues that have nothing to do with the first? How one sided.
laughingcrowe 2 years ago 4
No, this started when the Bishop refused him communion. Get your facts straight. The Catholic church is nothing more than a vindictive little bitch. They want to be involved in politics, let them pay taxes. Bottom line, pay up or shut up.
artvandelay3911 2 years ago
everyone seems to be getting angry over long-standing catholic/evangelical beliefs...including patrick himself. All he had to do was leave the church if he didn't share those beliefs, but he didn't. He instead basically criticized the church for them. You people have to understand that by forcing federal dollars to fund abortion, you are forcing these people to commit "murder" with their own money. That is the only reason why they won't go for it. How could you blame them for that?
laughingcrowe 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I left the church...
They're sick. One of the greatest advantages to leaving the RCC was knowing they would never be able to victimize my children - they wouldn't be able to pork my son or demean my daughters with their misogyny.
artvandelay3911 2 years ago
Umm, this "Catholic/Evangelical" thing you speak of. Evangelicals don't consider Catholics as true Christians. they really don't like Catholics. Understand your religion before you speak of it. Catholics and Evangelicals are two different things. Just ask a Baptist, they'll look down on you.
artvandelay3911 2 years ago
The dropping bombs comment was in response to a previous posting. The US govt legalized abortion in Roe v Wade, which enables women to kill their babies on the dime of US taxpayers. Kennedy is a proponant of that position in direct conflict with his church. The "Just War Doctrine" constitutes the just defense of a nation against an aggressor. Likewise, I can't reason with people brainwashed by the world orthodoxy of uncertainty.
guatay 2 years ago 3
I think they are equally wrong. Numbers are wonderful things, but killing 50,000 a year for 20 years is a million people. Research indicates that the number is twice that. So a million every ten years are dead because they can't afford health care. I don't do degrees of evil. Abortion is wrong, stopping health care reform as a political strategy is just as wrong. There is no such thing as Good Evil. No amount of parsing or intellectual dishonesty changes that.
bkohatl 2 years ago
Harvard University did a study and they estimated that 45,000 to 50,000 people died every year because they can't afford health care. One of the guys I work with had our company health insurance. A grave illness, showed him the short comings of our health insurance system. He was personally billed for over $12,000: expenses that are not covered they said. He doesn't have it. Now these Doctors are threatening to Garnish his wages. It will probably cost him his home. Thank You Bishop Tobin
bkohatl 2 years ago
Sympathies for your coworker. However, "In 2005 (the most recent year for which there is reliable data), approximately 1.21 million abortions took place in the U.S., ...an estimated 1.29 million in 2002, 1.31 million in 2000 and 1.36 million in 1996. From 1973 through 2005, more than 45 million...abortions have occurred in the U.S.," (AGI). Thank you Patrick Kennedy. P.S. Given those staggering abortion figures, Kennedy has no shame to whine about not receiving Holy Communion. Pathetic!
guatay 2 years ago 4
Patrick Kennedy doesn't have to vote in defense of unborn human life to be member of Congress. But he does have to vote that way to be a member of the Catholic Church. Shame on him for forcing Bishop Thomas Tobin to publicly remind him of something even a child can understand. Bishop Tobin is not telling Cong. Kennedy to vote like a Catholic. He is basically telling him to stop pretending to be one.
patrianews 2 years ago 3
Stop pretending to be one. Does that include pedophilia?
artvandelay3911 2 years ago
In America, no citizen is obliged to have religious or moral beliefs to serve in elected office. But elected officials claiming to have religious or moral beliefs, are obligated to act and vote consistent with their claimed beliefs to worthy of any credibility, trust, or respect.
patrianews 2 years ago 2
hello pat: thats is nonsense. i can be a lawyer, judge etc and still believe in anything or nothing (atheism) i want. we are a tolerant, free society. i separate my job with what i believe.
nonthiestnc 2 years ago
Do you know what the Catholic church in America is doing with pedophile priest? They claim they don't know where they are or reassign them overseas. Take action now people. If the American arm of justice can track down Roman Polanski then they can track down the pedophile priest.
artvandelay3911 2 years ago
Everyone needs to call the IRS and demand that religious organizations pay taxes. Especially the Catholic and Mormon church. They are directly involved in our politics. It's time they own up. The laws are clear. For religious organizations to remain tax exempt they must refrain from politics. This is not a free speech issue. This is direct involvement in politics. It is illegal if they are not paying taxes. Call your representative and demand action NOW!
artvandelay3911 2 years ago
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The priests have to deny some people communion so they have enough wine left over to get the alter boys drunk.
BishopToebin 2 years ago
Silly X-tians...
... Don'tcha know that the Right to Life ends at birth?
maxx1000 2 years ago
Love the fetus: Hate the child.
BishopToebin 2 years ago
seperation FROM the church...
... but as long as the church demnds it's ability to legiislate, TAX AWAY!
maxx1000 2 years ago
50,000 people die every year because they have no health insurance. Archbishop Tobin has said this kind murder is OK. I would just tell the Bishop that there is no such thing as good evil, ALL EVIL IS EVIL!
The Church belongs to us, not some egomaniacal, arrogant, cruel, greedy, Vicious Christian like Bishop Tobin.
bkohatl 2 years ago 2
50,000 people die from no health insurance?? Where are these figures coming from. I would like a source to refer to.
How about all of the people that die from bad health habits, eating too much sugar, oils, fats, lack of exercise, smoking, drinking, other drugs..... Then their doctors put them on medications that cost a fortune to let them continue thinking that they don't need to change their habits.
RIHeron76 2 years ago
Maybe you should consider the cost of eating healthy when it comes to poorer families. A $1.50 box of Mac N Cheese goes a long way for a single parent family three. His number is incorrect though. It's 44,000. The number has been out there for months now and no is denying it.
artvandelay3911 2 years ago
There are other means of getting healthy foods, of course they are being legislated out of existence as well. People can grow their own produce, and fish. There are community gardens to help provide the space to grow food. There is charity. There are a number of ways to help the poor get healthy food, but often people overlook these. There are also a lot of people that just don't know what a healthy diet, or lifestyle is. Hint: Mac N Cheese is not a healthy meal!
RIHeron76 2 years ago
What would those other means be? Charity? then you call them leaches. You are so full of shit. This charity you speak of, is it in the backwoods of Kentucky or middle America? Unbelievable. Fuck everyone else, right?
artvandelay3911 2 years ago
There's a lot of charity, and people that use it are not leaches if they are using it when the fall on hard times, and are trying to pick themselves back up. It's when people use social services, with no inclination to do better for themselves that they become leaches on society. Our government was not designed to be a force to be used to take from one person, and give to another. There be more voluntary charity if the system wasn't being abused.
RIHeron76 2 years ago
Sorry to the comment removed, I was attempting to reply, when I hit the wrong button.
RIHeron76 2 years ago
oh wow, this kennedy is pretty stupid. Obviously the church could not support legislation that uses tax dollars to kill innocent human beings. The church simply wants those lives protected and then it will provide its full backing to health care reform. Why do liberals insist on abortion being taxpayer funded when half the country thinks its murder? If you think its so important go fundraise for it. It is rarely medically necessary. 98% are not for medical reasons.
jjmcoates 2 years ago
I have more than one account. I see you took down about 10 of my comments from two days ago.
Nothing like manipuating viewers by taking down comments unfavourable to your views.
Tax the churches that interfere in Washngton.
classroomsound 2 years ago 2
I don't need a youtube troll flooding my account with illogical points, that don't pertain to the discussion.
RIHeron76 2 years ago
is this true class ?
nonthiestnc 2 years ago
So it's a kind of blackmail. If you want to keep your faith you must change secular laws.
I'd say that is interference in politics, and the Church should start paying taxes.
classroomsound 2 years ago
There's no blackmail here. Patches took this to the public forum. The Bishop was responding to it. If Patches doesn't agree with the fundamentals of the catholic religion, he should find a faith that he does agree with. If he wants to be a good catholic, he is morally obligated to practice his faith. If he can't do that as a congressman, maybe he's in the wrong job, and should quit. Either way, it states something about his character. Why would anyone want him representing them?
RIHeron76 2 years ago
hello RH: you need to listen to this video again. mr kennedy follows the law, period. thats is his job. abortion is not criminal. the church follows morals, not law. .
nonthiestnc 2 years ago
It's not really what it's about. The church doesn't support a bill for tax funded abortion. Patches is confused between his faith, and his career.
If he did follow the law, would he have crashed his car a couple of years back in DC while on that bender? He has shown himself time, and time again to be of a corrupt character. He should figure himself out first, before representing anyone else.
RIHeron76 2 years ago
hello RH please stick to the point. mr kennedy has to follow the law and the church is mingling with law when it should stay with morals. this is one reason church membership overall is declining, they think they can dictate morals to all.
nonthiestnc 2 years ago
You talk about me sticking to the point, you are the one bringing up church issues, such as declining numbers, and what they think they can do. They are not trying to rewrite the laws. Just because you may not believe in god, or the catholic church, and look for guidance, doesn't mean that others don't. Abortion, is morally unacceptable to the church. They do not support a bill which includes abortion, and they are obligated to let their practitioners know their stance.
RIHeron76 2 years ago
hello rh: this video is about the church and telling Kennedy their values. its about law. it is not criminal to perform abortions. most of us do not think its murder.
nonthiestnc 2 years ago
Wasn't it Jesus who turned blood into wine? Apparently he enjoyed a good bender every now and then also.
artvandelay3911 2 years ago
If the catholic church wants to influence secular policies and law, they should lose their tax-exempt status.
Call the IRS.
classroomsound 2 years ago 4
guatay - the bishop's responsibility is to get Catholics to follow their faith - and to try to get non-Catholics to listen to their message and convert.
Mr. Kennedy's defense of those rights is not wrong nor is it violating his beliefs. He is not performing abortions nor telling people to get them. He is simply allowing them to exercise rights they already have.
The fact that bishops aren't getting their message across shouldn't fall on the backs of the politicians to correct.
scottob 2 years ago 2
DalisYT - its very clear to me what the bishop is doing, and you are correct that the bishop has not violated his civil rights or committed a crime - at least not a crime as defined by our civil code of law.
On the other hand, Mr. Kennedy has broken no commandment and has nothing to confess. Believing that others not of your religion have the right to practice their beliefs - assuming they have any - is no sin. The bishop is wrong and is actually the one committing the sin here.
scottob 2 years ago 4
The Bishop is exercising his responsibility as it pertains to a church precept. Kennedy, as a professing Catholic, is under that precept, yet he arrogantly dictates his infanticide position to the church, expecting Her to change. The Church doesn't recognize Patrick or any of the Kennedys as greater than its founder, our Lord Jesus Christ.
guatay 2 years ago
catholics wonder why they have drooped to only 18% in USA & why they do not show up for church these days. oh by the way please remember to give to the march of dimes this holiday season sad what lack of healthcare does. 12% infant mortality rate I just gave please give thanks folks.
wow the popes and Bishops write laws i heard it wasn't there job a ploy because they cant get people to church only way to preach to us is publicly & to try to involve themselves in politics no church & state.
stme2008 2 years ago 2
Declining church numbers is not an issue of this topic. The church writing laws isn't an issue, since they are not writing the laws. Let's not forget that it was Patches that took this to a public forum, Not the Bishop, whom was just responding to him. We do have separation of church and state. Keep in mind the Bishop also has the right of freedom of speech, which he can use to try and sway opinions. There's nothing wrong with that.
RIHeron76 2 years ago
of course the church isn't writing laws...
... They're coercing legislators to do it for the church.
Write this law or... (fill in picture of kitten with gun to head) you will not receive our sacraments.
maxx1000 2 years ago 3
Who helped write the Stupak amendment? The Bishops and their lobbyist. Who poured money into PROP 8? Mormons, Catholics and Evangelicals. It's time to start taxing religious organization. It's not just freedom of speech. It's getting directly involved in American politics. That's absolutely fine if they want to be involved in politics, I have no problem with that. But, they must pay taxes. If they did, that would take care of California's budget crisis.
artvandelay3911 2 years ago
well said art: the local churches needs to put in their share of taxes, like any business. no taxes = no voices
nonthiestnc 2 years ago
Thanks. This has been boiling over for me the past year. These extremist have been OPENLY involved in politics since the 2008 elections. Especially the Prop 8 crap. They're true teaching teach tolerance, love and peace yet all we see from them is hate and discrimination. As I said, I have no problem with them being involved and influencing political decision. But if they're going to then some of that hush money they are paying because of pedophile priest must go to paying taxes. Call the IRS!!!!
artvandelay3911 2 years ago
So the bishops are denying him his right to receive communion.
I think we should deny the bishops the right to vote.
scottob 2 years ago
Right on!
Separation of Church and State. If you're gonna stick your church into government: you should pay taxes like any other corporation.
ROOKTABULA 2 years ago 4
stottob: why? They've committed no crime by denying a religious sacrament. They haven't violated his civil rights.
This may be unclear to non-Catholics, but Bishop Tobin advised Kennedy not to receive communion because he was actually protecting him. In Catholicism, it's a mortal sin to receive the body of Christ if you haven't confessed first. According to his religion, he was doing him a favor.
DalisYT 2 years ago
Since when was receiving communion a right??
RIHeron76 2 years ago
There's compassion for your flock.
BishopToebin 2 years ago
It was denied being a right when religious extremist interpreted the bible to suit it's own needs. Don't get me wrong, I'm a catholic and a believer. What I don't believe in is how extreme the ALL religions have moved in the past 100 years. This is not just my thinking, look at that stats. More and more people are leaving the church because the extreme stances and the interpretations.
artvandelay3911 2 years ago
Patrick KennAdy? Never heard of him.
dubbaCallday 2 years ago
HA HA, my mistake.
RIHeron76 2 years ago
The US needs more atheists in government to lessen the influence of religious institutions.
playswithknives 2 years ago 2
playswithknives: So, you're advocating a religious litmus test to serve in our government?
DalisYT 2 years ago
Since when did Catholic Bishops have a say in US law????
Separation of church and state. It's right there in the Constitution.
expatted 2 years ago 2
The 1'st Amendment in the Bill of Rights, freedom of speech! The Bishop doesn't have anymore of a say in the law than any other citizen. He does have a right to respond to Patches allegations, and to try and sway his practitioners.
RIHeron76 2 years ago
You're not posting them, but I know you can see them. You are narrow-minded and a hack. Enjoy your propaganda.
Nice effing church.
BishopToebin 2 years ago
Do me a favor and educate yourself with what you just said. I mean really....go back and do some research......and until you actually Know what your talking about? Do us all a favor and stop making such ridiculous claims. This is the problem with America today. People spurt out "separation of church and state" so freely without even knowing that that meant and why it was put there. Idiots. Get educated.
laughingcrowe 2 years ago
Red herring!? What an idiot! Where's the dignity for the unborn human person? He must think himself greater than the church. Because Kennedy is in a position of voting authority with consequences that negatively effect God's/church's stance on the right to life, he should be vociferously excommunicated such that the entire public would know, without a doubt, that God/church don't play by man's ever-changing rules! Even kings have been thrown out, so throw this bum out loudly & assuredly!
guatay 2 years ago
The Catholic Church does not make American law.
expatted 2 years ago
Where's the dignity for those you drop bombs on-- living women and children????
expatted 2 years ago
Catholics don't drop bombs on women & kids.
guatay 2 years ago
Naw, they just fund wars, via donations to the vatican, and other Holy Wars thru history.
No biggy.
That's all.
ROOKTABULA 2 years ago 2
Holy wars? Naw, the muslims were wreaking havoc on Europe by piracy/invasion. By the sword, they took the Balkins, occupied Spain, murdered 1000's in Italy/France. Europeans were starving as a result of interrupted trade on the Mediterranian as Christian N. Africa, et. al., fell to the invaders. All these & more incited the crusades. When you talk abt holy wars, the muslims are the premier offenders, becomming the 1st world civilization through invasion. Study history, you idiot!
guatay 2 years ago
my point exactly. These people aren't even educated! Nor do they want to be!
laughingcrowe 2 years ago
In the history of warfare, there has never been a Catholic in any Air Force? Really???
BishopToebin 2 years ago
Of course "individual" Catholics have served their county proudly! The preceding posts alleged that the Catholic Church as an "organization" dropped bombs on women & children, which is argumentum ad hominum. Argumentum ad hominum consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking a belief of the person making the argument, rather than by addressing the argument. The argument is Pat Kennedy's communion denial, not the church dropping bombs. Stay focused, don't change the subject.
guatay 2 years ago
Kennedy is part of an organization called the US government, which is secular. That organization is not aborting babies, just as "the Church" didn't drop the bombs. Yet, I'd think a good Catholic should refuse to drop the bombs or be denied communion, as they have killed.
Anyway, I can't reason with people brainwashed bu faith.
BishopToebin 2 years ago
Pillhead Patrick!
karamojong 2 years ago
Fanning the flames of "dissent" effing unreal. Patrick is the Shemp of the Kennedys, This is the guy, that drove a car into a barrier outside of the Congress, he was so bombed, drunk out of his mind, he tole the police 'he was going to vote" I guess for another round of drinks.
Yet the police let him go. Anybody else would have been handcuffed, and stuffed, right into the drunk tank
btwall60 2 years ago 4
He's a fucking criminal.
Organjic 2 years ago 4