I have worked on the door for years and looking at this from the point of view of street/bar fighting ( lets be honest - I call it alchohol fighting ) rather than from the point of view of trying to excel in MMA competition it makes alot of sense. I haven't studied Keysi ( I trained from a young age Boxing, Thai, BJJ and DBMA) . Real fighting looks alot like these pad drills, and with the primary target usually being the face/head, most assault victims curl up anyway. Why not train it?
..their heads, & so the "pensador" was born as a multifacted tool--weapon, defense & general protection.The head stands out in a fight, it just does, especially when it comes to multiple opponents. So say you're fighting five thugs who jump you; u may be kicking 1 or 2 of their asses with MMA style or TKD or whatevr, but eventually someone in the crowd gonna see ur head & take a swing with fist or a metal pipe or something. The pensa allows u to protect ur "computer" during this terrible ordeal.
For being the demo video he got nailed in the gut quite a bit. One good shot in the gut with your hands up in the pensador and the fight might as well be over.
Do you like it better than JKD? I like some of what I see and it is effective for not getting hit by multiple attackers, but as a one on one I train in a street MMA called Clear Combat fighting method. It is dirty fighting with the discipline of the MMA world. They should show more of the other aspects of KFM. I know they are teaching KFM to MMA fighters so far as the ground and pound is concerned.
They use their Hollywood connections to promote this aggressively. This was really developed from JKD. You can see a lot of sameness. The story of the spanish gypsy fighting is hard to swallow and I think they created a story for its birth. Show business is obvious in KFM.
@clearcombat I thought the same. Then I trained it. I've given up almost everything else except BJJ and Kali. KFM is amazing. Its concepts, while possibly familiar, aren't even really GROUNDED in JKD (I'm under Inosanto), they feel that the "pensador" position (the fetal position) is so natural, why fight it? Instead, use it to create an ever-moving "helmet". KFM is probably (and I say this without prejudice) the most complete multi-opponent fighting system in existence right now. I love it.
@pragzter ok I tried it in class. It worked against most of the high strikes (punches and kicks). Had to drop down to defend against lower strikes. There is a certain amount of vision loss due to the hands covering the eyes. But overall, it's a good defensive technique. So thumbs up!
@clearcombat Everyone says that. But the "low game" is not missing AT ALL. I had this proven to me time and time again (I'm a BJJ and CSW guy myself, with some Kali and JKD), and the ground game is complete, you just don't see it here. Some of it is familiar, (mount positions, side control) with modifications coming from the pensador or "thinking man" position. I've abandoned almost all other training after taking it. I've never seen anything more complete, but that's me.
@Gorshkin111 what about using the fist? is that a good idea? At first, it seemed that the jaw was being specifically targeted, in which case good. But it seems like the closed hand is used for all hand strikes. Is that wise? Also, is the block they use, the elbows over hands, a good general response? what about edged weapon attacks?
@carbonlaminate The targets vary considerably. But, like most arts, the jaw is a good idea. The "block" they use is based on basic human response--they've each tried many different arts & discovered that once surrounded by many attackers & the sh!t it the fan, nobody used their taekwondo or ninjitus or whatever, because it was too close-quarters & too chaotic. Every art they tried fell apart under pressure, even when they invited masters. But EVERYONE put their hands on their heads to protect..
@Gorshkin111 Hey dude. Thanks for taking time out to reply. I don't mean to press you, but I am honestly curious: they don't see a problem using the fist instead of the open hand? Also, while the flinch or cover guard seems like a good idea against mass attack, is that the default response when one-on-one or even one-on-two (and against weapons)?
@carbonlaminate Actually, they prefer the hammer fist, because it goes more in line with their improvised weapons program--i.e. hammer-fisting is the same motion one would use if u had a pen or sharp object in ur hand. When it comes to 1-on-1 or 1-on-2, they're a bit more relaxed, although once they make contact, they "merge" or "adhere" the pensador to the other person's body, slam them around, use headbutts, hammer fists, biting, & of course elbows in that close range. As for against weapons..
@carbonlaminate ...KFM is actually quite down to earth when dealing with weapons. They're motto is, if it is at all possible, RUN! They're tough guys, & intelligent brawlers, but they're not stupid. However, they are aware that this is sometimes unavoidable, so they have a "KFM Law Enforcement" program and another one called "Urban Weapons" that teach u how to both use & evade weapons as safely as possible--in the case of multiple opponents for instance, use one of them as a meat shield ; )
@Gorshkin111 Cool enough. I like to look for similarities instead of differences-- this stuff is somewhat inline with Jim Grover's material. I am going to start boxing here soon. I wish there were a Keysi place in Austin, I'm interested in trying it out. If you hear of one, keep me in mind and drop me a message.
@CBoavida I think that may be the point, every block seems to be a strike, in the guard position the defender's elbow intercepts the attacker's bicep. ouch
@LLuuuK hmm the hands up position that he is using is a natural defensive response being used as a guard. If you get attacked the first thing a personal will usually do is cover their face and try to make their body as small as possible. Most streetlights don't have alot of ring technique and the person is just attacking you wildly. I can tell you one thing that I observed from watching this clip. those elbows sticking out like that is prime position to gunt someone.
Is this a dance video or a fight video? Im sorry but I really don't see this "new" style of fighting growing any bigger than where it is. It's almost too funny. Basically a couple of guys who idolize old time fighting founders wanted to create their own style that looks cooler than anything else.
how about a kick in the balls when someone hits you that silly??
no for real, what about kicks, how to protect the legs and rib-cage if your upper arms are chin high doing this KFM-Block thing? and if you go down with this block I assume that somebody with just a bit of creativity will grab your head and knee you in the face, so instead of wild punching-defense I would like to see some other stuff...
@LLuuuK Well I don't really study Keysi but as a martial artist our teacher teaches us to Spike the top of the knee and its done in away that the attacker won't be able to walk afterward. Seeing how this style works a little it could probably do the same thing. This is a street born style and this is how 99% of street guys punch so it is probably effective.
eagles51593, The videos are only used as a reference source by those who train at a legitmate KFM school under a qualified teacher. Find an authorized KFM school and visit, they will be glad to show you how real it is.
Congrats...youre on the best way to find out the difference between selfe defence and fightings sports....To defend yourselfe on the street on the most secured way or to know that there ist an opponent to beat in some rounds in a ring.
And i think, some KFM parts will find their way into the UFC.Especialy the defence is very good.
Sorry to disagree with your statement regarding KFM and UFC. I would say KFM's defence is good when applied to STREET FIGHTING, which was what it was initially made for. However, I imagine using KFM against other forms of martial arts MIGHT NOT be a good idea. The thing is, KFM was invented for the streets, to counter ways one would INSTINCTIVELY fight. Having a KFM fighter cover his head against ..say..a Muay Thai fighter may prove to be futile.
KFM is the better system. You dont need to strike back (you cant use your hands)With the pensador you can cover of all attacks, and you win when your enemy is tired.
0:38 great form of fighting against two men: block the frontal strikes and resist back strikes enduring pain and clenching your teeth. yeah, very effective.
Scottfreerjh mentioned that KFM are revising the fees and KFM have now switched to a grade package system divided into Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced levels
Beginner comprises of the first three grades, White, Yellow and Orange which you can buy at $49.99 / €39.99 / £34.99 for each grade.
Intermediate has grades Green, Blue and Brown for $69.99 / €54.99 / £49.99 for each grade.
Advanced is the Black Grade which runs at $139.99 / €109.99 / £99.99.
If any of you guys or gals want to train in this fighting method, for at the moment $10 a month you can sign up for the 'Urban X'' Training Syllabus but they are revising the payment plan so check ahead.
Cool. I noticed that when i last looked at their site. How does the urban x online training university work, exactly? Do you video tape yourself doing the techniques after a certain time to have them graded? It says you can graduate to black belt level one online.
I'm following it, and as far as I can see you just get about 15 minutes of video a week(good stuff). In total there is 156 videos --> 3 years. The grades aren't really important in KFM, just your own development.
thank you very much for your answer. I understand that ranks aren't important. I'm a martial artist of 10 years so I agree with this. But i still must insist on how the grading is done? Please answer in as much detail as possible. THANKS!
A friend of mine who has been graded once, trained for 1 1/2 year, said it consisted of shadowing, and performing a couple of drills with elements you add yourself. I have no idea how if this is done over the internett though. Instructors have seperate grades, so if you have a black grade(no belts really) and want to start the instructor program, you start over with instructor grades. Grading to orange as an instructor, my instructor and 20 others, where told to just fight for 15 minutes.
Thank you so much for answering! i think i'll pm you if I have another question. the youtubers are probably getting irritable of our q&a on here. Thanks again!
p.s. For a simple system like KFM, which is more of a self defense supplement to training and not an actual style in itself, I think the grading system should be just as simple. The shadowing and the performing of drills while imrpovising actually seems like a good thing for grading.
I agree 100% I think that this (and a handful of others) are good supplemental training, though not somthing I'd consider a base art for self defense. For that I'd go JKD concepts, FMA, or KM (I hate to say it too.) And the grading sounds simple and to the point, I agree with you that this is the best way. I show people multiple answers to a problem then tell them to choose the one they can do most efficiently. I don't think simplicity is considered as much as it should be in self defence arts.
yo u guys are thinking way too inside the box. there are definitely some good concepts here, especially the covering technique while you slip inside. and who says you have to remain in that form/stance/method of attack? Bruce Lee that shit, take what works for you and discard what doesn't. combine it with some sick muay thai or jeet kun do and you could do some real damage.
Is it just me or where there very few body shots thrown? And it looked like everyone that was thrown landed. I've had ribs broken with a gloved body hook, someone hitting bare knuckles, or worse with a knuckle duster, and your ribs, liver, or kidneys are going to get pulverized. I'll have to see more I guess.
I don't want to "argue" here. I just would like to encourage those asking questions to try find the answers out themselves. This system has evolved from the genuine need to defend. As someone correctly said, the pensador is like the foetal position. Guarding the head is the most important thing you can do in a fight/attack situation. The head is the body's switch. Switch it off, switch the person off. You get knocked out and you are at the mercy of the attacker.
Never show your back to your enemy, thats a rule on the streets. So this martial arts looks great but is not effective on the street. And this works only if you are stronger than your opponent, but on the street usually only stonger people attack you. And then your blocks won't do anything against some iron fists ;)
when your fighting multiple opponents unless they stand and wait their turn, more than likely at some point your back will be turned to at least one of them.
The idea with multiple attackers is to keep them lined up in front of you and in each others way. If you can punch the guy on your left you can grab the guy too, move him between you and the guy on the right.
In KFM, you train 1 vs 2 from the very beginning. One of the first things we trained was trying to keep the attackers in front of us, with 360 degrees awareness. The guy who developed it fought grown up convicts in coal mines as a teenager, so he knows about fighting physically stronger opponents. Anyway, you adapt KFM to yourself, a bit like JKD. Both Justo and Andy are licenced JKD instructors btw.
I like the first bit of that, I teach people multiple attackers early on as well, with the same goal. The part about fighting convicts in coal mines sounds a little bit suspect though. And JKD instructorship can be bought on ebay, not kidding you get the certificate as soon as you purchase the video program. This is definently a system with some potential though.
He got in alot of fights there because he didn't want to be a victim. He worked there for about 6 years I think. Both Andy and Justo was JKD instructors under Dan Inosanto as far as I remember, jo think it's quite legit.
I know their certs are legit, just trying to make a point, more or less to everyone. The guys on ebay (the material's legit I'll hand them that) are certified under Vunak. Which gives people the chance to claim a training lineage back him. Even if they don't finish the program they're certified.
When I see people claiming to have been life long street fighters, black ops soldiers, underground deathmatch warriors, etc. I get a little skeptical unless they have something to verify some of it.
Appears effective. I would worry about headbutts. Headbutt strike or the ole glasgow kiss can put you at risk. that soft gray matter hiting the rigid inner calvarium of skull, Not good.
This fighting system look really effective for the street, i will be taking a better look in to it hell i might be come a practitioner of this art. as a black belt in brazilian jiu-jitsu and a professer of my own develiping style of jiu-jitsu i say you can make it work for almost any thing even sport wise so big30o6 eat cock and that gose for any 1 who dose not know shit of the art as a martia artist you should know any thing can b useful like my art '' atomic jiu-jitsu '' , congrats to founder
Seems like a defensive "fighting"??? style. I thought that this would be cool and like the concept. But it only appears to be good for defensive attacts to the upper body... Leaving mid-section/lower extremities fully exposed... There's a reason you haven't seen this in UFC! Save your cash on lessons, There's no shame in running to get help instead of standing there letting someone kick your ass while you protect your shitty haircut! LOL
i trained for years muay thai, boxing, grappling and bjj..i see always a lot of shit about "street fighting magical martial arts", but for me THIS really works..congratulations to the founders of this system..i can understand watching these guys in action that they are the real deal, no bullshit, they are higly trained, scientific skills, congratulations guys..good job
I'm taking them right now with my friends. One a week for $10 a month. They're very thorough and in depth. It may not be as good as a real school, but it gets the job done very well.
I just shot a comic fight scene for an internet series called Elephant Larry ( it also can be seen on You Tube. ) I used the Pensador move to protect my head during the fight. Worked pretty good.
Nothing in this system is "new"... But what system out there is "new"? There are only so many things you can do with your body... A punch is a punch. A kick is a kick. There is no reinventing this stuff... What DOES make a difference is the mindset behind the system and the method of training. Does the system take into account natural body responses to proactive and counter-attacks? Does it deal with a multitude of attack scenarios? Is it easy to learn/gross-motor in nature?
Do you train UNDER PRESSURE? Fatigued? Stressed out and tired??? These are the factors that I've found contribute to a pretty decent self-defense system. PS - I'm all in favor of disarming. When you're in close quarters - there's no reason not too disarm. Are you going to get cut in a knife fight? Yep. But running, as much as it may be the wiser move, isn't always an option.
In the video there are no KFM kicks proformed. The part you are referring to is not a KFM kick. If you look closely the guy recieving the kick is in the Pensador, or the KFM's form of cover. That is simply showing the cover protecting against a kick.
And really sucks, once again I know many disarms and I would not use them unless I have no escape and there is a 99% chance I am going to die anyway. You need some real life expirence or proper training.
ok, how about if you dont know about keysi fighting method then shutup. If youve never taken a class or gone to a seminar, or learned how KFM was formed then shutup. In the street you run from weapons. All you disarm guys, wear a white shirt and have your friend come at you with a marker like a knife, then try your disarm....see how many marks you get. Try the same for a bb gun. Now add FEAR and ADRENALINE. Unless you are blocked in and you KNOW that you are going to be killed then do not disarm
ok clinton, i'm a disarm guy or what ever you call it. it's obvious you don't know what your talking about. i study kali/eskrima/arnis, silat and dumog. yes you will get cut if your attacked by a knife, no argument in that. but you train so you try to avoid getting cut in a area that will cause severe damage. and as for fear and adrenaline, you learn to control that. that why you train. it simple, if do nothing, gonna get cut if you do something, gonna get cut.
so i rather learn to defend myself from that type of situation or any situation at that. it's like trying to tell a boxer that he wont get punched or a muay thai fighter he wont get kicked or punched. take your own advice if you don't know about being a "disarm guy" then you shouldn't comment. knowledge is power.
ok, i know what im talking about and im not going to argue with some asshole over the internet thats is trying to trash a system they know nothing about. When you get engaged with a weapon and try to disarm someone, it may be too late to change your ignorance. Systems that are for sport and systems that are combat proven are totally different.
ok clinton. glad that you know, or think you know, that i don't know nothing about kfm. you post a argument to begin with about disarm guys and what they should try. but then say your not going to argue with some asshole. the reason for your lack of argument is your lack of information. also, you most not know how to read you stated "Systems that are for sport and systems that are combat proven are totally different" is pretty much the same thing i said about training for sport or self defense.
Not effective. You're covering yourself up the entire time taking a beating. Krav Maga does 360 defense, which blocks and counters simultaneously. KM teaches you to NEVER stay in that position forever. KM does use the basic defense when you have no other choice, but only to take about 1 or 2 hits. That's it. If you stay like that forever, you're gonna get hit and it's gonna faze you and you won't be able to hold out for long. Sorry for slamming down on it... I'm just stating what makes sense.
Not to slam you but you must have missed the fact that they were drilling different aspects of the defense. Toward the end of the video they display the defense and immediate counter.
Notice how they went right back to covering. They threw some, then went back to it. Krav Maga is explosive, not some pecks. You explode in their face and do even more than just a few punches like that.
I know, but I noticed that they love to use that blocking style. That's a good defense, but it really shouldn't be the first line of defense. If you can stop the attack from happeing in the first place (Krav Maga teaches bursting for that), then that's even better. And tell me... what if there's a knife involved. Are you gonna cover up like that? You'll get your arms sliced like cheddar cheese. You wouldn't be able to do anything.
There is no knife involved in this training video so your kinda missing the point, covering your head up wouldn't work against a gun either but then again theres no gun in the trianing video, and how good would a gun work against KM's bursting you mention?
chief, the purpose of teaching a single shell eases the burden of teaching multiple defensive tactics to a student with no experience. You should also take into consideration that these guys are training against blitz attacks. If you are caught unaware no amount of training except for this type would be able to prepare you for that kind of assault.
Regarding an attack with a knife, I have never been convinced that any technique taught in Krav Maga would effectively counter a knife attack. What they teach is the typical strike and counter rather than the blitzing assault you would see in a street confrontation or in a prison assault.
You should start changing your mind on it, because each and every technique is battle-tested and refined for civilian use. Actual soldiers learn nearly the same stuff that civilians use, except actually lethal. If so many security organizations are utilizing Krav Maga, it's safe to say it's effective and that it works... ALL the techniques.
The same could be said about almost any martial art. I can tell you for certain that the major proponents specializing in knife encounters would disagree. I would start to seriously look at the dog brothers for truth in knife or stick.
If you ask the soldiers if the techniques work, then that should be the final word. It doesn't matter what people who study it say. The people who've actually gone through a knife attack and used a certain technique are the people you want to listen to.
Then I will take the word of Marc Denny, Tony Blauer, Chris Sayoc and Paul Vunak. All are experts in this field, highly regarded and in demand by the military for their experience. The only KM inst. that I believe has any credibility is Moni Aizik. Though I feel his real expertise is in H2H and hand guns. Last, my instructor is a former US Marine with combat experience in the Mideast, he would stand by my every statement.
Then I'll go ask all the Israeli soldiers what they think about it. 3 soldiers compared to one US marine... oh yeah, and also thousands of police officers, secret service, and celebrity security guards in the U.S. Many of them take Krav maga.
You go ahead and the IDF and I will ask the Navy Seal teams that have trained with Paul Vunak, the SWAT teams that have certified under Tony Blauer and prison guards that have trained in Sayoc Kali or Dog Brother's fighting arts.
I will concede that the focus of this disagreement has drifted. My post was not intended to slam KM either. I just thought that I should point out the fact that this system has an elegant and, what I believe, effective training method for dealing with a blitz attack using the "pensador". I come to that conclusion because of my personal experience in several systems that work with "flinch-reflex" defensive postures.
Oh. Alright. I didn't mean to slam on KFM, either. All I know is that Imi Lichtenfeld was in many fights with Nazis to defend the Jewish people. He then was assigned to create an effective defense system for the IDF, and he did. It's battle-tested, so it's safe to say that Krav Maga works. But KFM also looks like it would work in certain situations.
Agree somewhat with you. Most places teach knife attacks only from a hold up position. Which is what you'll need most times. Someone whose wildly flailing with a knife could have more that likely been avoided completely and the technique used will probably be repeditive, only slashing or thrusting. It'd be easier to run, but I think too many systems assume that you'll be able to every time. I have a 3 year with me most of the time, so running isn't always possible.
That's quite a statement to say... "No amount of training would prepare you for that." You sure about that? Basically, I'm saying that getting comfortable in such a stance is a huge mistake. If you stay like that, they're going to figure you out in a matter of seconds and take you to the ground. Blocking won't help against that.
I train people against this and its nothing like the KFM answer. We move forward covering and taking away use of their long and medium range weapons. From there we use vertical elbows to the chin and xyphoid process moving to eye gouges and headbutts, and then following up with redirection, control, or escape techniques depending on what we need for that scenario.
No, you've misunderstood my point. Only when the enemy rocks back to punch or hit you with something, then bursting will work. The bursting is blocking and countering at the same. If they have a gun in your face, you do a certain technique.
What's the point? If you cover your face, the knife is just gonna go right through your hand. You stop the knife from even hitting you to begin with... something these KFM people think doesn't need to happen. It's like they think they're invincible by covering up like that. You're still gonna get punched, and you're gonna be fazed each and every time you get punched.
This is the pensador, the passive variation of the pensataq. It is used here for a prolonged period only because it is a training exercise. Covering up only delays the inevitable but as I say, through training you develop this instictive reaction to become an active tool, simultaneoulsy defending while either creating an opening to attack or acting as a direct attack itself.
No. I mean that the pensataq cannot only be used to block or deflect, but directly attack. For example instead of waiting to receive a punch, you deflect it with your lead elbow (similar to a parry)
Stepping forward (thereby closing ground your opponent and minimising the risk of a cross from his live hand) you drive your second elbow forward into the shoulder or face. Alternativley if their footwork is good and keep their distance you use the point of your elbow to directly attack their incoming blows (fist, shin, calf etc)
Sheer physics ensures you that this will hurt them far more than you. This is all done in one continous motion and takes slightly greater technique but it is built from an instinctive reaction (raising your arms) and is developed first through the pensador. Hope this helps.
I agree here, not in defense of KM, but on the knife issue. Dormant defense (what we call defenses that only prevent you from being injured) should be applicable against a blade too. Its less to remember and you never know if he's hiding a shiv or if a friend you didn't see might run in with one. You go to counter a sucker punch from a third party and its actually a knife attack and you could be in serious trouble quick.
No offense, but your try of looking yourself cool giving propaganda to a different system of fighting (that you may think no one can criticize because it's a "proven style, taught to the military"), is not really working. The creators of KFM are certified JKD instructors and most of their techniques are drawn from their own experience in street fights. Covering myself like in this video has proven to me more effective and more natural than that "360 defense".
Have you ever practiced KFM? if not, didn't you read what the boys said on their comments? They DON'T use that guard if they see a knife or a gun. This guard is not designed to be used against weapons, it is designed for unarmed combat.
Okay, but it's still extremely dumb to have that be a constant default position. You can only weather max 3-4 of those hits until you become disoriented, then you're screwed. Why not prevent any attacks before they happen? Doesn't that seem the most logical thing to do?
No. KFM just took KM's idea of their block and turned it into a fighting style. That's what I see from it, anyway. I know that KM has been around longer than this style has for sure.
Is the reason you see KM ideas in KFM becasue you practise KM? I don't think KFM is entirely 100% original in terms of technique but actually look at the two styles -the way they move- and the differences are obvious.
Yes. I wouldn't be saying all this and have nothing supporting me. I've seen the exact same covering style in KM, but they added the side blocks (from what I've learned in KM so far). And blocking like that isn't instinctual. You try and shove the punch away when you can. Only when you're overwhelmed is when you would do that or you didn't have the time to do block properly. Also, when you're covering like that against one opponent, they're not gonna stop. You'll fall backwards eventually.
The 'deja vu' was in reference to you repeating yourself. So again I'll refer you back to the previous comments. The pensador is passive but is merely the first element, you do not stand there and try to weather shots before falling backwards. You're interpreting an entire style from one video.
The 1ª secuencia video gives some insight into the pensataq. Notice it is a parry, and the keysi fighter immediately closes distance to prevent further attacks.
I would also argue that covering your face/raising hands to an attack is very instinctual, for inexperienced individuals at least. The point is to develop attributes and understanding, as opposed to rote memorising "if they do x, you do y then z."
That's exactly what KM teaches. They teach you to stay close. I guess my main argument is that it seems they took one element from Krav Maga, tweaked it and added some stuff to it, then made it into a fighting style. It would make more sense to get the entire style that it was originally rather than developing on just one defensive position that wouldn't work in many cases (like a baseball bat). If an attacker is swinging a baseball bat, the person is going to put his arms up... not smart.
Not smart, which is why KFM doesn't teach this, see previous comments. You see KFM as built from KM, but I again assert that this is because you do KM. People who do silat see silat, wing chun see wing chun and kali see kali. And even if it where the case, studying the 'original art'in its entireity would only make sense if it was absolutley perfect and could provide exactly what everyone wanted from a martial art. I've practiced both I known which one I found fulfilling.
Uh... the entire video showed them putting their arms up. If your taught to constantly put your arms up for whatever reason it is, you're gonna do that when a baseball bat comes at you, because you've been taught to raise your arms so much.
And I don't see any Krav Maga in karate, because there is no correlation between the two. I see a very prominent component of KFM that looks like it was from KM. If KFM was made after KM, this only would support my observation.
The entire video consisted of training a single concept: the pensador against unarmed attack! Your 'observations' come from watching a 5 min clip on the internet.
For instance Keysi fighters are taught to actively attack and close distance, a wise choice against your example of a baseball bat as the shorter the lever the less force. Do you honestly belive they would just 'put their hands up' and take it.
Justo acknowledges training in many styles from JKD to sambo. Why -if he acknowledges these- does he make no mention of KM? A kick is a kick, you will see crossovers, but the two are qualitatively different. And this isn't being defensive -I already said there are major similarities to certain silat styles- this is an objective evaluation. if you cant see that then I'll be here for months so I hereby resign from repeating myself.
WTF? Dude KFM took their techniques and their ideas from the Filipino martial arts that the founders learned from Dan Inosanto, plus their own experience, and the FMA has been A LOT LONGER around than Krav Maga.
By the way, you aren't correct that it's been around longer than Krav Maga has. Krav Maga was designed in the early 40s I believe for the IDF. KFM was made in 1957 in August. Maybe you shouldn't be so hypocritical and actually do some research yourself before you make yourself look stupid.
Only people like you look at me as a "stupid". And in this case I really don't care, believe me.
And I say only people like you because I never say nothing that I invented, I always do my research (being those correct or not). So if you call me stupid, be a man and call stupid too to all web-pages that contain my same info (again, would you like me to send you the links?).
For some reason my comments with the links are not posted. But anyway, just look at wikipedia, krav maga was developed in 1930's, it says. And KFM was NOT developed in 1957. 1957 was the year that the founder was born, two different things.
this is for cheif and sheik. stop with your he said she said crap. kfm is just a knock off of other fighting technique and givin a new name. another thing one of you used Wikipedia as a source, wikipedia is a joke some if not most of the stuff on there is wrong information that why most colleges will not let you use Wikipedia as a source. so stop your whining.
the progression, both fighting and music at 3:20 is awesome
thadea 6 months ago
Anyone know how the KFM would handle a knife or gun attack?
chizokage 6 months ago
I have worked on the door for years and looking at this from the point of view of street/bar fighting ( lets be honest - I call it alchohol fighting ) rather than from the point of view of trying to excel in MMA competition it makes alot of sense. I haven't studied Keysi ( I trained from a young age Boxing, Thai, BJJ and DBMA) . Real fighting looks alot like these pad drills, and with the primary target usually being the face/head, most assault victims curl up anyway. Why not train it?
Rapist87 7 months ago 2
i wanna learn this now. Batman uses it !!
JarJarAssault 10 months ago 2
@JarJarAssault No one with the name "JarJar" should try to be like Batman...
xaayer 6 months ago
a good fighter gives the pensador a good thump in the liver/plexus/spleen....balls :p
PFloydTime 10 months ago
Any chanse this is going to go to the netherlands?
Ben1987X 11 months ago
..their heads, & so the "pensador" was born as a multifacted tool--weapon, defense & general protection.The head stands out in a fight, it just does, especially when it comes to multiple opponents. So say you're fighting five thugs who jump you; u may be kicking 1 or 2 of their asses with MMA style or TKD or whatevr, but eventually someone in the crowd gonna see ur head & take a swing with fist or a metal pipe or something. The pensa allows u to protect ur "computer" during this terrible ordeal.
Gorshkin111 1 year ago
For being the demo video he got nailed in the gut quite a bit. One good shot in the gut with your hands up in the pensador and the fight might as well be over.
rico91stang 1 year ago
So can anyone who trains KFM answer a question for me? Bodyblows?
southpaw816 1 year ago
Do you like it better than JKD? I like some of what I see and it is effective for not getting hit by multiple attackers, but as a one on one I train in a street MMA called Clear Combat fighting method. It is dirty fighting with the discipline of the MMA world. They should show more of the other aspects of KFM. I know they are teaching KFM to MMA fighters so far as the ground and pound is concerned.
clearcombat 1 year ago
They use their Hollywood connections to promote this aggressively. This was really developed from JKD. You can see a lot of sameness. The story of the spanish gypsy fighting is hard to swallow and I think they created a story for its birth. Show business is obvious in KFM.
clearcombat 1 year ago
@clearcombat I thought the same. Then I trained it. I've given up almost everything else except BJJ and Kali. KFM is amazing. Its concepts, while possibly familiar, aren't even really GROUNDED in JKD (I'm under Inosanto), they feel that the "pensador" position (the fetal position) is so natural, why fight it? Instead, use it to create an ever-moving "helmet". KFM is probably (and I say this without prejudice) the most complete multi-opponent fighting system in existence right now. I love it.
Gorshkin111 1 year ago
Does the "thinking man" guard position make you vulnerable to takedowns?
I'm gonna try this in my next MMA class :D
pragzter 1 year ago
@pragzter ok I tried it in class. It worked against most of the high strikes (punches and kicks). Had to drop down to defend against lower strikes. There is a certain amount of vision loss due to the hands covering the eyes. But overall, it's a good defensive technique. So thumbs up!
pragzter 1 year ago
esto sale en mision imposible 2 y batman 2
CHTUCO 1 year ago
KICKASS!!!!!!!!
merctp45 1 year ago
im sorry but this looks like an extreme shampoo commercial.
luchador1764 1 year ago
It has some merits, but the low game is missing.
clearcombat 1 year ago
@clearcombat Everyone says that. But the "low game" is not missing AT ALL. I had this proven to me time and time again (I'm a BJJ and CSW guy myself, with some Kali and JKD), and the ground game is complete, you just don't see it here. Some of it is familiar, (mount positions, side control) with modifications coming from the pensador or "thinking man" position. I've abandoned almost all other training after taking it. I've never seen anything more complete, but that's me.
Gorshkin111 1 year ago
@Gorshkin111 what about using the fist? is that a good idea? At first, it seemed that the jaw was being specifically targeted, in which case good. But it seems like the closed hand is used for all hand strikes. Is that wise? Also, is the block they use, the elbows over hands, a good general response? what about edged weapon attacks?
carbonlaminate 1 year ago
@carbonlaminate The targets vary considerably. But, like most arts, the jaw is a good idea. The "block" they use is based on basic human response--they've each tried many different arts & discovered that once surrounded by many attackers & the sh!t it the fan, nobody used their taekwondo or ninjitus or whatever, because it was too close-quarters & too chaotic. Every art they tried fell apart under pressure, even when they invited masters. But EVERYONE put their hands on their heads to protect..
Gorshkin111 1 year ago
@Gorshkin111 Hey dude. Thanks for taking time out to reply. I don't mean to press you, but I am honestly curious: they don't see a problem using the fist instead of the open hand? Also, while the flinch or cover guard seems like a good idea against mass attack, is that the default response when one-on-one or even one-on-two (and against weapons)?
carbonlaminate 1 year ago
@carbonlaminate Actually, they prefer the hammer fist, because it goes more in line with their improvised weapons program--i.e. hammer-fisting is the same motion one would use if u had a pen or sharp object in ur hand. When it comes to 1-on-1 or 1-on-2, they're a bit more relaxed, although once they make contact, they "merge" or "adhere" the pensador to the other person's body, slam them around, use headbutts, hammer fists, biting, & of course elbows in that close range. As for against weapons..
Gorshkin111 1 year ago
@carbonlaminate ...KFM is actually quite down to earth when dealing with weapons. They're motto is, if it is at all possible, RUN! They're tough guys, & intelligent brawlers, but they're not stupid. However, they are aware that this is sometimes unavoidable, so they have a "KFM Law Enforcement" program and another one called "Urban Weapons" that teach u how to both use & evade weapons as safely as possible--in the case of multiple opponents for instance, use one of them as a meat shield ; )
Gorshkin111 1 year ago
@Gorshkin111 Cool enough. I like to look for similarities instead of differences-- this stuff is somewhat inline with Jim Grover's material. I am going to start boxing here soon. I wish there were a Keysi place in Austin, I'm interested in trying it out. If you hear of one, keep me in mind and drop me a message.
carbonlaminate 1 year ago
Sometimes its hard to tell when its a block and when its a strike!
In Batman begins this style rocks!
CBoavida 1 year ago
@CBoavida I think that may be the point, every block seems to be a strike, in the guard position the defender's elbow intercepts the attacker's bicep. ouch
hamo1701 1 year ago
To everyone who doubts the KFM system all I have to say is that the SAS is currently being trained in it along with a mix of others.
alos8 1 year ago
3:19 it looks like they're doing some new rap dance. XD
blacksuite1 1 year ago 5
@LLuuuK hmm the hands up position that he is using is a natural defensive response being used as a guard. If you get attacked the first thing a personal will usually do is cover their face and try to make their body as small as possible. Most streetlights don't have alot of ring technique and the person is just attacking you wildly. I can tell you one thing that I observed from watching this clip. those elbows sticking out like that is prime position to gunt someone.
whowouldofguessed 1 year ago
I looks like 52 blocks, not a complete combat system. Bring in the greco roman wrestling and some judo, then you'll have something.
clearcombat 1 year ago
Is this a dance video or a fight video? Im sorry but I really don't see this "new" style of fighting growing any bigger than where it is. It's almost too funny. Basically a couple of guys who idolize old time fighting founders wanted to create their own style that looks cooler than anything else.
09ZombieHunter 1 year ago
looks pretty but does it work? You can practice all day being hit with soft gloves.
09ZombieHunter 1 year ago
@09ZombieHunter try it with out gloves for a few minutes and see why they use gloves.
junfanfan 1 year ago
you can try kajukenbo
ArlisX 1 year ago
how about a kick in the balls when someone hits you that silly??
no for real, what about kicks, how to protect the legs and rib-cage if your upper arms are chin high doing this KFM-Block thing? and if you go down with this block I assume that somebody with just a bit of creativity will grab your head and knee you in the face, so instead of wild punching-defense I would like to see some other stuff...
LLuuuK 1 year ago
@LLuuuK Well I don't really study Keysi but as a martial artist our teacher teaches us to Spike the top of the knee and its done in away that the attacker won't be able to walk afterward. Seeing how this style works a little it could probably do the same thing. This is a street born style and this is how 99% of street guys punch so it is probably effective.
JcLeopard 1 year ago
@LLuuuK try it out then
Keysi4life 1 year ago
eagles51593, The videos are only used as a reference source by those who train at a legitmate KFM school under a qualified teacher. Find an authorized KFM school and visit, they will be glad to show you how real it is.
auralvampire1 1 year ago
Wow. Another online scam.
eagles51593 1 year ago
In kfm you guys made use of sparring?
Pomba199 2 years ago
@Pomba199
yeah, sometimes every time.
louiscreagh 1 year ago
eh change my mind, what a bunch of rubbish
johnnyvulture99 2 years ago
For some reason, I found 3.16 amusing...it was like 3 dudes shampooing their hair simultaneously...hahaha
Aimran479 2 years ago
Sillyjake86 :
Ill try to start Krav Maga and Keysi...i also think that they work together very well:)
biathlonmann 2 years ago
Congrats...youre on the best way to find out the difference between selfe defence and fightings sports....To defend yourselfe on the street on the most secured way or to know that there ist an opponent to beat in some rounds in a ring.
And i think, some KFM parts will find their way into the UFC.Especialy the defence is very good.
biathlonmann 2 years ago
Sorry to disagree with your statement regarding KFM and UFC. I would say KFM's defence is good when applied to STREET FIGHTING, which was what it was initially made for. However, I imagine using KFM against other forms of martial arts MIGHT NOT be a good idea. The thing is, KFM was invented for the streets, to counter ways one would INSTINCTIVELY fight. Having a KFM fighter cover his head against ..say..a Muay Thai fighter may prove to be futile.
Aimran479 1 year ago
Take any of these guys to a real ufc fight and what you think will happen??
m2orrego 2 years ago
ermmmm DQ
junfanfan 2 years ago
There are rules in a cage fight there are no rules in the street.
bigschatz1 2 years ago
cant compare UFC to something the originated in the street..
Davidlovesmac 2 years ago
This is AWESOME !
wize11 2 years ago
Comment removed
johnnyvulture99 2 years ago
I am totally blown away! Makes me want to create my own style. Maybe I'll call it PMS.
johnnyvulture99 2 years ago
Lol, nice. It's a very practical method in fighting too. I take Krav Maga, and we actually do a lot of things very similar to Keysi fighting.
Sillyjake86 2 years ago
There johnnyvulture99 goes again being faggot. He just comes to these videos to see men workout lol.
johneblaze82 2 years ago
Comment removed
johnnyvulture99 2 years ago
Is a joke, I like KFM
davichuuuu 2 years ago
sitting in floor, in floor, in floor, (or digging a hole and bury yourself under it)
davichuuuu 2 years ago
KFM2, a new method: Doing pensador sitting in roof shrunken like a ball. You gain leg covering!!!!!
davichuuuu 2 years ago
KFM is the better system. You dont need to strike back (you cant use your hands)With the pensador you can cover of all attacks, and you win when your enemy is tired.
0:38 great form of fighting against two men: block the frontal strikes and resist back strikes enduring pain and clenching your teeth. yeah, very effective.
davichuuuu 2 years ago
Excuse me sigmacombatsystems, have you started training in KFM?. If not what gives you the right to criticize.
WithBadIntent 2 years ago 10
Thank you
Davidlovesmac 2 years ago
Scottfreerjh mentioned that KFM are revising the fees and KFM have now switched to a grade package system divided into Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced levels
Beginner comprises of the first three grades, White, Yellow and Orange which you can buy at $49.99 / €39.99 / £34.99 for each grade.
Intermediate has grades Green, Blue and Brown for $69.99 / €54.99 / £49.99 for each grade.
Advanced is the Black Grade which runs at $139.99 / €109.99 / £99.99.
WithBadIntent 2 years ago
If any of you guys or gals want to train in this fighting method, for at the moment $10 a month you can sign up for the 'Urban X'' Training Syllabus but they are revising the payment plan so check ahead.
ScottFreeRJH 2 years ago
Cool. I noticed that when i last looked at their site. How does the urban x online training university work, exactly? Do you video tape yourself doing the techniques after a certain time to have them graded? It says you can graduate to black belt level one online.
yieldingbamboo 2 years ago
I'm following it, and as far as I can see you just get about 15 minutes of video a week(good stuff). In total there is 156 videos --> 3 years. The grades aren't really important in KFM, just your own development.
LibertyofMind 2 years ago
thank you very much for your answer. I understand that ranks aren't important. I'm a martial artist of 10 years so I agree with this. But i still must insist on how the grading is done? Please answer in as much detail as possible. THANKS!
yieldingbamboo 2 years ago
A friend of mine who has been graded once, trained for 1 1/2 year, said it consisted of shadowing, and performing a couple of drills with elements you add yourself. I have no idea how if this is done over the internett though. Instructors have seperate grades, so if you have a black grade(no belts really) and want to start the instructor program, you start over with instructor grades. Grading to orange as an instructor, my instructor and 20 others, where told to just fight for 15 minutes.
LibertyofMind 2 years ago
Thank you so much for answering! i think i'll pm you if I have another question. the youtubers are probably getting irritable of our q&a on here. Thanks again!
p.s. For a simple system like KFM, which is more of a self defense supplement to training and not an actual style in itself, I think the grading system should be just as simple. The shadowing and the performing of drills while imrpovising actually seems like a good thing for grading.
yieldingbamboo 2 years ago
I agree 100% I think that this (and a handful of others) are good supplemental training, though not somthing I'd consider a base art for self defense. For that I'd go JKD concepts, FMA, or KM (I hate to say it too.) And the grading sounds simple and to the point, I agree with you that this is the best way. I show people multiple answers to a problem then tell them to choose the one they can do most efficiently. I don't think simplicity is considered as much as it should be in self defence arts.
sigmacombatsystems 2 years ago
If you have any other questions, I'll try to answer them the best I can :)
LibertyofMind 2 years ago
yo u guys are thinking way too inside the box. there are definitely some good concepts here, especially the covering technique while you slip inside. and who says you have to remain in that form/stance/method of attack? Bruce Lee that shit, take what works for you and discard what doesn't. combine it with some sick muay thai or jeet kun do and you could do some real damage.
RageTheRebel 2 years ago
Is it just me or where there very few body shots thrown? And it looked like everyone that was thrown landed. I've had ribs broken with a gloved body hook, someone hitting bare knuckles, or worse with a knuckle duster, and your ribs, liver, or kidneys are going to get pulverized. I'll have to see more I guess.
sigmacombatsystems 2 years ago
These are nothing like the street attacks I have seen -two guys jumping on one at the same time, scrathing, and kicking the groin and shins.
LardInATubeSock 2 years ago 2
I don't want to "argue" here. I just would like to encourage those asking questions to try find the answers out themselves. This system has evolved from the genuine need to defend. As someone correctly said, the pensador is like the foetal position. Guarding the head is the most important thing you can do in a fight/attack situation. The head is the body's switch. Switch it off, switch the person off. You get knocked out and you are at the mercy of the attacker.
Read up on it guys! :) Cheers.
bigkev84 3 years ago
Never show your back to your enemy, thats a rule on the streets. So this martial arts looks great but is not effective on the street. And this works only if you are stronger than your opponent, but on the street usually only stonger people attack you. And then your blocks won't do anything against some iron fists ;)
DrakEakaNyX 3 years ago
when your fighting multiple opponents unless they stand and wait their turn, more than likely at some point your back will be turned to at least one of them.
junfanfan 3 years ago
The idea with multiple attackers is to keep them lined up in front of you and in each others way. If you can punch the guy on your left you can grab the guy too, move him between you and the guy on the right.
sigmacombatsystems 2 years ago
In KFM, you train 1 vs 2 from the very beginning. One of the first things we trained was trying to keep the attackers in front of us, with 360 degrees awareness. The guy who developed it fought grown up convicts in coal mines as a teenager, so he knows about fighting physically stronger opponents. Anyway, you adapt KFM to yourself, a bit like JKD. Both Justo and Andy are licenced JKD instructors btw.
LibertyofMind 2 years ago
I like the first bit of that, I teach people multiple attackers early on as well, with the same goal. The part about fighting convicts in coal mines sounds a little bit suspect though. And JKD instructorship can be bought on ebay, not kidding you get the certificate as soon as you purchase the video program. This is definently a system with some potential though.
sigmacombatsystems 2 years ago
He got in alot of fights there because he didn't want to be a victim. He worked there for about 6 years I think. Both Andy and Justo was JKD instructors under Dan Inosanto as far as I remember, jo think it's quite legit.
LibertyofMind 2 years ago
I know their certs are legit, just trying to make a point, more or less to everyone. The guys on ebay (the material's legit I'll hand them that) are certified under Vunak. Which gives people the chance to claim a training lineage back him. Even if they don't finish the program they're certified.
When I see people claiming to have been life long street fighters, black ops soldiers, underground deathmatch warriors, etc. I get a little skeptical unless they have something to verify some of it.
sigmacombatsystems 2 years ago
Fair enough. It's good to be critical :)
LibertyofMind 2 years ago
Appears effective. I would worry about headbutts. Headbutt strike or the ole glasgow kiss can put you at risk. that soft gray matter hiting the rigid inner calvarium of skull, Not good.
Hanumanpaw 3 years ago
Finally an intelligent opinion.
thanks51 3 years ago
This fighting system look really effective for the street, i will be taking a better look in to it hell i might be come a practitioner of this art. as a black belt in brazilian jiu-jitsu and a professer of my own develiping style of jiu-jitsu i say you can make it work for almost any thing even sport wise so big30o6 eat cock and that gose for any 1 who dose not know shit of the art as a martia artist you should know any thing can b useful like my art '' atomic jiu-jitsu '' , congrats to founder
theconstricter2 3 years ago
Seems like a defensive "fighting"??? style. I thought that this would be cool and like the concept. But it only appears to be good for defensive attacts to the upper body... Leaving mid-section/lower extremities fully exposed... There's a reason you haven't seen this in UFC! Save your cash on lessons, There's no shame in running to get help instead of standing there letting someone kick your ass while you protect your shitty haircut! LOL
big30o6 3 years ago 2
The best offense is a good defense.
thanks51 3 years ago
Actually, it's the best defense is a good offense.
FatalFighterMMA 3 years ago
Too fast really for kicks to bother us,but you would be amazed at what you can protect with the pensador.
Honestly fella,this is a very effective way to fight,and win.
surfwyke 3 years ago
I practise keysi and like talos i am from other fighting arts and as he states this is one excellent system and very effective to say the least.
this is a unique system with very practical applications and the training structure is well thought out and good fun also.
surfwyke 3 years ago
wat about the kicks.....
ive been worrying about the kicks.
i mean if you have your hands on ur head you expose your ribs...
PierreLeone 3 years ago
i trained for years muay thai, boxing, grappling and bjj..i see always a lot of shit about "street fighting magical martial arts", but for me THIS really works..congratulations to the founders of this system..i can understand watching these guys in action that they are the real deal, no bullshit, they are higly trained, scientific skills, congratulations guys..good job
talos1510 3 years ago 2
finally someone that know what their talking about
clintonwelding 3 years ago
can you tell me about defending against kicks?
i mean keeping ur hands on ur head is what you do when you surrender..
like your ribs and stomach are exposed....
i need help
PierreLeone 3 years ago
In KFM, you also use the knees to deflect kicks.
Bestialwrath 3 years ago 2
you guys arguing online about this and that. if you win an arguement online you're still a loser.. HAHA !!
marvelx1 3 years ago
3:05-3:15 , like a bad shampoo commercial
roadkill1011 3 years ago
Anyone try this online course? I'd prefer to take one in person but I can't find anything in my area.
ECsix 3 years ago
I'm taking them right now with my friends. One a week for $10 a month. They're very thorough and in depth. It may not be as good as a real school, but it gets the job done very well.
MoogleStiltz 3 years ago
I just shot a comic fight scene for an internet series called Elephant Larry ( it also can be seen on You Tube. ) I used the Pensador move to protect my head during the fight. Worked pretty good.
spadaydaga 3 years ago
3:19 - 3:24 - If I just happened to walk out from the bushes behind and saw these guys doing that...LOL!
ozzythekid1984 3 years ago
In Serrada Escrima, the Pensador move is called wash the face / comb the hair.
It's not really such a new move.
spadaydaga 3 years ago
Nothing in this system is "new"... But what system out there is "new"? There are only so many things you can do with your body... A punch is a punch. A kick is a kick. There is no reinventing this stuff... What DOES make a difference is the mindset behind the system and the method of training. Does the system take into account natural body responses to proactive and counter-attacks? Does it deal with a multitude of attack scenarios? Is it easy to learn/gross-motor in nature?
wleinen 3 years ago
Do you train UNDER PRESSURE? Fatigued? Stressed out and tired??? These are the factors that I've found contribute to a pretty decent self-defense system. PS - I'm all in favor of disarming. When you're in close quarters - there's no reason not too disarm. Are you going to get cut in a knife fight? Yep. But running, as much as it may be the wiser move, isn't always an option.
wleinen 3 years ago
pensador is pretty much an instinctive natrual response.....ever hear fetal position? Moidify that and your in the pensador. and they train hardcore
clintonwelding1 3 years ago
Odd fighting style... but looks effective enough..
What about crotch-kicks though? This defense seems to leave the mid section and groin exposed.
Then again this is just a drill video eh?
vulmann 3 years ago
In the video there are no KFM kicks proformed. The part you are referring to is not a KFM kick. If you look closely the guy recieving the kick is in the Pensador, or the KFM's form of cover. That is simply showing the cover protecting against a kick.
And really sucks, once again I know many disarms and I would not use them unless I have no escape and there is a 99% chance I am going to die anyway. You need some real life expirence or proper training.
clintonwelding1 3 years ago
ok, how about if you dont know about keysi fighting method then shutup. If youve never taken a class or gone to a seminar, or learned how KFM was formed then shutup. In the street you run from weapons. All you disarm guys, wear a white shirt and have your friend come at you with a marker like a knife, then try your disarm....see how many marks you get. Try the same for a bb gun. Now add FEAR and ADRENALINE. Unless you are blocked in and you KNOW that you are going to be killed then do not disarm
clintonwelding 3 years ago
ok clinton, i'm a disarm guy or what ever you call it. it's obvious you don't know what your talking about. i study kali/eskrima/arnis, silat and dumog. yes you will get cut if your attacked by a knife, no argument in that. but you train so you try to avoid getting cut in a area that will cause severe damage. and as for fear and adrenaline, you learn to control that. that why you train. it simple, if do nothing, gonna get cut if you do something, gonna get cut.
reallysucks 3 years ago
so i rather learn to defend myself from that type of situation or any situation at that. it's like trying to tell a boxer that he wont get punched or a muay thai fighter he wont get kicked or punched. take your own advice if you don't know about being a "disarm guy" then you shouldn't comment. knowledge is power.
reallysucks 3 years ago
ok, i know what im talking about and im not going to argue with some asshole over the internet thats is trying to trash a system they know nothing about. When you get engaged with a weapon and try to disarm someone, it may be too late to change your ignorance. Systems that are for sport and systems that are combat proven are totally different.
clintonwelding 3 years ago
ok clinton. glad that you know, or think you know, that i don't know nothing about kfm. you post a argument to begin with about disarm guys and what they should try. but then say your not going to argue with some asshole. the reason for your lack of argument is your lack of information. also, you most not know how to read you stated "Systems that are for sport and systems that are combat proven are totally different" is pretty much the same thing i said about training for sport or self defense.
reallysucks 3 years ago
I'm already impressed if you're saying disarming isn't part of the system. Weapon disarming is bullshit.
watcherFA 3 years ago
this is good :D im going to implement this when i fight!
babyaiko 3 years ago
Very good MA one of the best styles I have seen on youtube that is effective and realistic.
snakeeyes007 3 years ago
Not effective. You're covering yourself up the entire time taking a beating. Krav Maga does 360 defense, which blocks and counters simultaneously. KM teaches you to NEVER stay in that position forever. KM does use the basic defense when you have no other choice, but only to take about 1 or 2 hits. That's it. If you stay like that forever, you're gonna get hit and it's gonna faze you and you won't be able to hold out for long. Sorry for slamming down on it... I'm just stating what makes sense.
realmasterchief 3 years ago
Not to slam you but you must have missed the fact that they were drilling different aspects of the defense. Toward the end of the video they display the defense and immediate counter.
trinity346 3 years ago
Notice how they went right back to covering. They threw some, then went back to it. Krav Maga is explosive, not some pecks. You explode in their face and do even more than just a few punches like that.
realmasterchief 3 years ago
KFM is explosive too, what your seeing here is just a broken down training video not full on dynamic fighting.
Trig0r 3 years ago
I know, but I noticed that they love to use that blocking style. That's a good defense, but it really shouldn't be the first line of defense. If you can stop the attack from happeing in the first place (Krav Maga teaches bursting for that), then that's even better. And tell me... what if there's a knife involved. Are you gonna cover up like that? You'll get your arms sliced like cheddar cheese. You wouldn't be able to do anything.
realmasterchief 3 years ago
There is no knife involved in this training video so your kinda missing the point, covering your head up wouldn't work against a gun either but then again theres no gun in the trianing video, and how good would a gun work against KM's bursting you mention?
All things in context...
Trig0r 3 years ago
You use bursting when you notice your target rock back to try and hit you, not when they're in your face with a gun.
realmasterchief 3 years ago
chief, the purpose of teaching a single shell eases the burden of teaching multiple defensive tactics to a student with no experience. You should also take into consideration that these guys are training against blitz attacks. If you are caught unaware no amount of training except for this type would be able to prepare you for that kind of assault.
trinity346 3 years ago
Regarding an attack with a knife, I have never been convinced that any technique taught in Krav Maga would effectively counter a knife attack. What they teach is the typical strike and counter rather than the blitzing assault you would see in a street confrontation or in a prison assault.
trinity346 3 years ago
You should start changing your mind on it, because each and every technique is battle-tested and refined for civilian use. Actual soldiers learn nearly the same stuff that civilians use, except actually lethal. If so many security organizations are utilizing Krav Maga, it's safe to say it's effective and that it works... ALL the techniques.
realmasterchief 3 years ago
The same could be said about almost any martial art. I can tell you for certain that the major proponents specializing in knife encounters would disagree. I would start to seriously look at the dog brothers for truth in knife or stick.
trinity346 3 years ago
If you ask the soldiers if the techniques work, then that should be the final word. It doesn't matter what people who study it say. The people who've actually gone through a knife attack and used a certain technique are the people you want to listen to.
realmasterchief 3 years ago
Then I will take the word of Marc Denny, Tony Blauer, Chris Sayoc and Paul Vunak. All are experts in this field, highly regarded and in demand by the military for their experience. The only KM inst. that I believe has any credibility is Moni Aizik. Though I feel his real expertise is in H2H and hand guns. Last, my instructor is a former US Marine with combat experience in the Mideast, he would stand by my every statement.
trinity346 3 years ago
Then I'll go ask all the Israeli soldiers what they think about it. 3 soldiers compared to one US marine... oh yeah, and also thousands of police officers, secret service, and celebrity security guards in the U.S. Many of them take Krav maga.
realmasterchief 3 years ago
You go ahead and the IDF and I will ask the Navy Seal teams that have trained with Paul Vunak, the SWAT teams that have certified under Tony Blauer and prison guards that have trained in Sayoc Kali or Dog Brother's fighting arts.
trinity346 3 years ago
You do that. I doubt we're both actually gonna ask, so it doesn't matter anyway.
realmasterchief 3 years ago
I will concede that the focus of this disagreement has drifted. My post was not intended to slam KM either. I just thought that I should point out the fact that this system has an elegant and, what I believe, effective training method for dealing with a blitz attack using the "pensador". I come to that conclusion because of my personal experience in several systems that work with "flinch-reflex" defensive postures.
trinity346 3 years ago
Oh. Alright. I didn't mean to slam on KFM, either. All I know is that Imi Lichtenfeld was in many fights with Nazis to defend the Jewish people. He then was assigned to create an effective defense system for the IDF, and he did. It's battle-tested, so it's safe to say that Krav Maga works. But KFM also looks like it would work in certain situations.
realmasterchief 3 years ago
Agree somewhat with you. Most places teach knife attacks only from a hold up position. Which is what you'll need most times. Someone whose wildly flailing with a knife could have more that likely been avoided completely and the technique used will probably be repeditive, only slashing or thrusting. It'd be easier to run, but I think too many systems assume that you'll be able to every time. I have a 3 year with me most of the time, so running isn't always possible.
sigmacombatsystems 2 years ago
That's quite a statement to say... "No amount of training would prepare you for that." You sure about that? Basically, I'm saying that getting comfortable in such a stance is a huge mistake. If you stay like that, they're going to figure you out in a matter of seconds and take you to the ground. Blocking won't help against that.
realmasterchief 3 years ago
I train people against this and its nothing like the KFM answer. We move forward covering and taking away use of their long and medium range weapons. From there we use vertical elbows to the chin and xyphoid process moving to eye gouges and headbutts, and then following up with redirection, control, or escape techniques depending on what we need for that scenario.
sigmacombatsystems 2 years ago
Right, so you've proven my point, you dont burst when there in your face with a gun, the same as we dont cover like that when they use a knife...
Trig0r 3 years ago
No, you've misunderstood my point. Only when the enemy rocks back to punch or hit you with something, then bursting will work. The bursting is blocking and countering at the same. If they have a gun in your face, you do a certain technique.
realmasterchief 3 years ago
Right, and we dont cover up when were faced with a knife..
Trig0r 3 years ago
What's the point? If you cover your face, the knife is just gonna go right through your hand. You stop the knife from even hitting you to begin with... something these KFM people think doesn't need to happen. It's like they think they're invincible by covering up like that. You're still gonna get punched, and you're gonna be fazed each and every time you get punched.
realmasterchief 3 years ago
This is the pensador, the passive variation of the pensataq. It is used here for a prolonged period only because it is a training exercise. Covering up only delays the inevitable but as I say, through training you develop this instictive reaction to become an active tool, simultaneoulsy defending while either creating an opening to attack or acting as a direct attack itself.
allendavies 3 years ago
You mean actually punching a punch? That's gonna hurt on both sides, though. You could break your fist like that.
realmasterchief 3 years ago
No. I mean that the pensataq cannot only be used to block or deflect, but directly attack. For example instead of waiting to receive a punch, you deflect it with your lead elbow (similar to a parry)
allendavies 3 years ago
Stepping forward (thereby closing ground your opponent and minimising the risk of a cross from his live hand) you drive your second elbow forward into the shoulder or face. Alternativley if their footwork is good and keep their distance you use the point of your elbow to directly attack their incoming blows (fist, shin, calf etc)
allendavies 3 years ago
Sheer physics ensures you that this will hurt them far more than you. This is all done in one continous motion and takes slightly greater technique but it is built from an instinctive reaction (raising your arms) and is developed first through the pensador. Hope this helps.
allendavies 3 years ago
I agree here, not in defense of KM, but on the knife issue. Dormant defense (what we call defenses that only prevent you from being injured) should be applicable against a blade too. Its less to remember and you never know if he's hiding a shiv or if a friend you didn't see might run in with one. You go to counter a sucker punch from a third party and its actually a knife attack and you could be in serious trouble quick.
sigmacombatsystems 2 years ago
No offense, but your try of looking yourself cool giving propaganda to a different system of fighting (that you may think no one can criticize because it's a "proven style, taught to the military"), is not really working. The creators of KFM are certified JKD instructors and most of their techniques are drawn from their own experience in street fights. Covering myself like in this video has proven to me more effective and more natural than that "360 defense".
Sheik06 3 years ago
Tell me that again when someone attacks you with a knife. Then we'll see how much good it does.
realmasterchief 3 years ago
Have you ever practiced KFM? if not, didn't you read what the boys said on their comments? They DON'T use that guard if they see a knife or a gun. This guard is not designed to be used against weapons, it is designed for unarmed combat.
Sheik06 3 years ago
Okay, but it's still extremely dumb to have that be a constant default position. You can only weather max 3-4 of those hits until you become disoriented, then you're screwed. Why not prevent any attacks before they happen? Doesn't that seem the most logical thing to do?
realmasterchief 3 years ago
Deja vu?
allendavies 3 years ago
No. KFM just took KM's idea of their block and turned it into a fighting style. That's what I see from it, anyway. I know that KM has been around longer than this style has for sure.
realmasterchief 3 years ago
Is the reason you see KM ideas in KFM becasue you practise KM? I don't think KFM is entirely 100% original in terms of technique but actually look at the two styles -the way they move- and the differences are obvious.
allendavies 3 years ago
Yes. I wouldn't be saying all this and have nothing supporting me. I've seen the exact same covering style in KM, but they added the side blocks (from what I've learned in KM so far). And blocking like that isn't instinctual. You try and shove the punch away when you can. Only when you're overwhelmed is when you would do that or you didn't have the time to do block properly. Also, when you're covering like that against one opponent, they're not gonna stop. You'll fall backwards eventually.
realmasterchief 3 years ago
The 'deja vu' was in reference to you repeating yourself. So again I'll refer you back to the previous comments. The pensador is passive but is merely the first element, you do not stand there and try to weather shots before falling backwards. You're interpreting an entire style from one video.
The 1ª secuencia video gives some insight into the pensataq. Notice it is a parry, and the keysi fighter immediately closes distance to prevent further attacks.
allendavies 3 years ago
I would also argue that covering your face/raising hands to an attack is very instinctual, for inexperienced individuals at least. The point is to develop attributes and understanding, as opposed to rote memorising "if they do x, you do y then z."
allendavies 3 years ago
That's exactly what KM teaches. They teach you to stay close. I guess my main argument is that it seems they took one element from Krav Maga, tweaked it and added some stuff to it, then made it into a fighting style. It would make more sense to get the entire style that it was originally rather than developing on just one defensive position that wouldn't work in many cases (like a baseball bat). If an attacker is swinging a baseball bat, the person is going to put his arms up... not smart.
realmasterchief 3 years ago
Not smart, which is why KFM doesn't teach this, see previous comments. You see KFM as built from KM, but I again assert that this is because you do KM. People who do silat see silat, wing chun see wing chun and kali see kali. And even if it where the case, studying the 'original art'in its entireity would only make sense if it was absolutley perfect and could provide exactly what everyone wanted from a martial art. I've practiced both I known which one I found fulfilling.
allendavies 3 years ago
Have you practiced both?
allendavies 3 years ago
Uh... the entire video showed them putting their arms up. If your taught to constantly put your arms up for whatever reason it is, you're gonna do that when a baseball bat comes at you, because you've been taught to raise your arms so much.
And I don't see any Krav Maga in karate, because there is no correlation between the two. I see a very prominent component of KFM that looks like it was from KM. If KFM was made after KM, this only would support my observation.
realmasterchief 3 years ago
The entire video consisted of training a single concept: the pensador against unarmed attack! Your 'observations' come from watching a 5 min clip on the internet.
For instance Keysi fighters are taught to actively attack and close distance, a wise choice against your example of a baseball bat as the shorter the lever the less force. Do you honestly belive they would just 'put their hands up' and take it.
allendavies 3 years ago
Justo acknowledges training in many styles from JKD to sambo. Why -if he acknowledges these- does he make no mention of KM? A kick is a kick, you will see crossovers, but the two are qualitatively different. And this isn't being defensive -I already said there are major similarities to certain silat styles- this is an objective evaluation. if you cant see that then I'll be here for months so I hereby resign from repeating myself.
allendavies 3 years ago
One last thing; correlation does not imply causation.
allendavies 3 years ago
WTF? Dude KFM took their techniques and their ideas from the Filipino martial arts that the founders learned from Dan Inosanto, plus their own experience, and the FMA has been A LOT LONGER around than Krav Maga.
Sheik06 3 years ago
By the way, you aren't correct that it's been around longer than Krav Maga has. Krav Maga was designed in the early 40s I believe for the IDF. KFM was made in 1957 in August. Maybe you shouldn't be so hypocritical and actually do some research yourself before you make yourself look stupid.
realmasterchief 3 years ago
Only people like you look at me as a "stupid". And in this case I really don't care, believe me.
And I say only people like you because I never say nothing that I invented, I always do my research (being those correct or not). So if you call me stupid, be a man and call stupid too to all web-pages that contain my same info (again, would you like me to send you the links?).
Sheik06 3 years ago
I didn't call you stupid. I said you made yourself LOOK stupid. And sure, I'll give you the links.
realmasterchief 3 years ago
You say "I'll give you the links", means YOU will send me some links? Dude, I said "would you like ME to send YOU the links?", not the opposite.
Sheik06 3 years ago
Oh. I read it too fast and thought you said that you wanted me to send you some links. But sure, go ahead and send some to me.
realmasterchief 3 years ago
For some reason my comments with the links are not posted. But anyway, just look at wikipedia, krav maga was developed in 1930's, it says. And KFM was NOT developed in 1957. 1957 was the year that the founder was born, two different things.
Sheik06 3 years ago
this is for cheif and sheik. stop with your he said she said crap. kfm is just a knock off of other fighting technique and givin a new name. another thing one of you used Wikipedia as a source, wikipedia is a joke some if not most of the stuff on there is wrong information that why most colleges will not let you use Wikipedia as a source. so stop your whining.
reallysucks 3 years ago