I think that you may have taken a few things out of context here.
He's not saying that he's confused by the scripture, he's saying he's confused that he and other Christians get stereotyped to be "bible-bashers".
Don't get me wrong, the world needs to hear the gospel, and we need to preach it, but I'm pretty sure the video is saying that this way can hurt more than help sometimes. I find it to be aimed more at people like the Westboro Baptist Church (which is an extreme example).
@rjwaqa He says we don't understand all the "condeming and converting" earlier in the vid..... the method to spread the good news is "Preaching" Romans 14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
@Radnartjie0205 I like his vids too, as poetry, not from God. Yes we can extend grace to him, BUT since he is teaching this as from God it is very dangerous for those who don't know the truth...Some may think that God is at peace with them, but since they've been told that they will go to heaven without trusting in Christ's work on the cross or repenting they end up our side of God's grace...we have to to the hard job of talking about sin...Peace
@Radnartjie0205 Did I, is it that God loves us just the way we are? that loves wins and we're all going to Heaven? Rob Bell as of late wrote a book (Love Wins) where he teaches that everyone is going to heaven, I'm sorry but the bible just doesn't teach that......peace
lol wow you missed the hole point of that video its not about telling "bullhorn guy" to stop preaching the gospel but to stop trying to scare people and start showing them Gods love yes the bible talks about hell but there is alot more about love in it. and EVERYONE knows what the bible has to say about hell so why teach on that instead of the more important part of Christianity witch is love.
@truth4U2C ok i worded that wrong everyone knows what bull horn guy normally has to say about hell know one knows everything about hell and i cant tell you specifically who all is going to hell i know that the bible is very clear that we have to repent of our sins and accept Jesus as the sacrifice for our sin so that would mean anyone who rejects Jesus but or anyone who commits blasphemy against the holy spirit
@TheJason9119 Dude you and I see eye to eye on what the Bible clearly says...re-watch what Rob Bell says...He is not teaching what the Bible says...in his new book "Love Wins" he shows that he believes all people go to Heaven Look I get it, some bullhorn preachers are unloving, but most tell the truth about what the bible says. Luke5: 31 Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
@truth4U2C i personally dont see anything wrong with what he says in the bullhorn guy video but i haven't read Love Wins so i cant comment on that book if it says everyone goes to heaven thats wrong but but again im just not catching anything wrong with this video
Actually, the Bible does indicate that the Love that we show to others really DOES reflect the Love that we have for God. Matthew 25:40 -- “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
A good example of how starkly different the same message can be approached. Rob Bell is not disagreeing with the Gospel, he's disagreeing with Bullhorn Guy's approach. And by approach I do not mean "open air preaching." THE POINT IS that Bullhorn Guy is preaching the Gospel with NO LOVE for the people he is preaching to. He is no better than the "resounding gong" or the "clanging symbol" that Paul talks about. People don't respond to this. They respond to LOVE.
Excellent video ! Hell does exist and to not warn people about it is NOT LOVE . To tell a person "god loves you just the way you are " is NOT LOVE . As Todd Friel says -" we don't say turn or burn , but we know it's true " . Of course the whole message of a preacher or christian to the lost should not just be turn from your sin or your going to hell . A saving message will include the law FIRST then the gospel and it should be preached with love , but often it will be hated by men .
He does love you - just as you are . Do you not love your children just as they are and is his love not infinitely greateer than yours. Of course we need to change and Rob Bell is not denying that . So many Christians are destroying the message because they harranging and insulting people . They seemed to love the message but they didn't love me and they generated nothing in me but contempt. I finally met someone who accepted me and loved me just just as I was and he saved my life..
..how do you want others to teach the weaker ones ..I hope not the way you just taught us ,,with smirks ,laughs and judgement...at least do it in Love ..CHRIST'S LOVE... Be Blessed
the gospel will enter in the ear of the hearer and the spirit will assist the hearer in what is and what is not the truth...but if you have a disagreement to what bob bell is teaching ..than you first need to bring your problem with your brother to your brother before you bring your offering before the Lord..write Mr Bell himself first..and please dont do it like when but you sat there in your video, with laughs and smirks to his teaching .
.now if we are looking for mistakes and fault finding ...than you will find it ..especially in scriptures ...when you look for it...because we really do not understand the times .from when Jesus was teaching..but we do understand ,what He was teaching .and it has been passed down from generation to generation ,,and now i believe .we are doing our best to give the Word to the world as we were taught ..some of us are not as good as you in this ,,either way,
hey Bob.I just want to say this ..If you feel this man mr bell is wrong ..I cant read anywhere in the scriptures where Jesus even one time preached hell fire and brimstone,,No He did preach .be careful when judging,,for with the same judgement you use will be used on you...but honestly.that type of teaching was not given to the disciples to preach neither was it screaming and yelling ..no it was true love and the way to get to know the one true god and savior...JESUS CHRIST..................
hey Bob.I just want to say this ..If you feel this man mr bell is wrong ..I cant read anywhere in the scriptures where Jesus even one time preached hell fire and brimstone,,No He did preach .be careful when judging,,for with the same judgement you use will be used on you...but honestly.that type of teaching was not given to the disciples to preach neither was it screaming and yelling ..no it was true love and the way to get to know the one true god and savior...JESUS CHRIST
Fourth Point: In the original Greek (Mark 12 v28-32) the work for love that is used is the same (agape) so if you say that loving our neighbour is self preservation love the so is loving GOD...... hmmm, however the other way round makes perfect sense, GOD calls us to go out and love others with his love that is in us, to be living examples of his love
Fifthly, it is not our place to condemn others. Scripture says do not judge, only GOD can do that.
@Mike9Metalhead Either way, if you don't warn sinners of God's coming judgment, your not truly loving them. example, Jesus loves you!...great! Jesus will improve your life...great!...My mom loves me, and drugs improve my life...why do I need Jesus? Jesus Saves, From What? From God just wrath, OH in that case I need Jesus.
@Mike9Metalhead "Fifthly, it is not our place to condemn others. Scripture says do not judge, only GOD can do that" All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God...Romans 3:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord...Romans 6:23 Please think this through, We are all condemn already because we have all sinned...So a good preacher is WARNING, not condemning, not judging....do you now see the differance? Peace
Second point: I noticed you said there are certain criteria that God judges us against, but wait a minute, isn't that what the Jewish rabi's said...... isn't that what Jesus came to speak against and refute...... The criteria is that we believe in Jesus Christ and let him into out lives, and I mean really believe not just say words, if you really believe it will change you life.
Third: Often you miss his point and take it out of context, so your critique means nothing
@Mike9Metalhead The criteria "Law" was given to the Jews, and it shows us that the heart of Man can not be legislated, we can approach anybody on the planet, compare their life to God's standard "the law" awake their conscience, so they see their need for Jesus's sacrifice on the cross....we see this done in acts 2 by Peter, and Jesus and the rich young ruler....Rob's gospel (to me) seems to lack the need to repent...Peace
First point: The thing about this is that Rob Bell is not criticising open air preaching, rather he is criticising the soul use of "hell, fire and brimstone" in open air preaching (incidentally I'm fairly sure that Jesus never preached that. It was in fact invented by the catholic church to scare people into being christians. It's also how the old pagan religions worked, you must sacrifice this or the Gods will curse you....... hmmm)
therefore in some sense this video is unwarranted, although it is always a good idea to analyse all teaching. Yes, it is important to understand GODS wroth, but the point of Jesus is that GOD loves us and we are saved by grace (if we believe) there is nothing we can do about it. we are IMPERFECT there is no possible way we could earn GODS love or be reconciled to him and not go to hell through our own human actions. (that's Judaism) it's by grace alone we are saved. We should be preaching that!!
@Mike9Metalhead Yes you have stated that we are saved by faith, I agree, but clearly we are called to repent, that is to have a changed mind and direction, this change dosn't save us, it happens because we're thankful for what Christ has done. We also obey, becasue of who Christ is, He is the Lord of LORDS. It just seems very weak of Rob to not give the whole story...peace
@Mike9Metalhead Jesus taught more about hell than anyone else in the Word of God. Jesus described hell as an unquenchable fire (Matthew 3:12), a place of eternal fire, (Matthew 25:41) eternal punishment (Matthew 25:46), and as a place of torment, fire, and agony (Luke 16:23-24). Jesus taught specifically about hell many times in His ministry (Matthew 5:22, 29-30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15,33; Mark 9:43-47; Luke 12:6; 16:23).
I used to struggle with two different Jesuses; One loved unconditionally like my earthly parents & the other demanded life-long behavior modification. In the Bible, Truth4U2C says, "I don't find that he loves us just the way we are." I conclude he's right. Taking the words "go and sin no more" out of Jesus' mouth is false advertising. The nicer Jesus of my child-like imagination never existed. Biblical love is not philosophical. It's obedience-based & I don't need that. I quit Christianity.
@MySocksSmell2 Romans 5:8 "but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us" We Can't live by obedience we live by faith in what Jesus did for us while we were still sinners. We follow Jesus in Obedience because of who he is, and for what he's done for us. Galatians 3:24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
You are right to say "It's obedience-based" but we are not the ones who are obedient, it was Christ's sinless life that he laid down for us, HIs obedient, perfect sinless life was what was needed to take the wrath of God for us. he then gave us his rightousness, so we can stand in front of the Holiness of God. Peace
"Galatians 3:24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor."
@truth4U2C Those verses are used to generate altar calls, sinner's prayers, decisions for Christ & professions of faith. Salvation is theoretically presented as by grace through faith to make converts, but in practice believers always end up reversing the order to live by faith through grace while trying to maintain assurance
@MySocksSmell2 You have made a correct observation, Some do get it backwards. conversions is a work of the Holy Spirit, so many try by their own will to to be christian, but in time fall away...read the Parable of the sower to seed how God shows us ahead of time what this will look like. Look at John 3 then ask yourself "Can I born myself? If you are struggling to walk with the Lord, just keep your eyes on him and trust him to finish the work he has started....
Hebrews 12:1-2 1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
@truth4U2C Scripture tells believers to "examine themselves" to see if they are in the faith and to make their "calling and election sure". The only way to do that is to link evidence of saving faith to behavior. Reformed/Calvinist theology teaches believers are under law as a rule of life, but that information is withheld while telling unbelievers it's just a tutor to bring them to Christ. If law ends where Christ begins, walking with the Lord wouldn't be a struggle to verify justification.
@MySocksSmell2 "calling and election sure" now read Matthew 22 1-14 note this Matthew 22:14 “For many are invited, but few are chosen.” If your struggle with sin is overwelming you, continue to seek after God to deliver you, and give you a new heart. "walking with the Lord wouldn't be a struggle to verify justification" I know what I think your trying to say here, but let me correct ths statement "walking with the Lord would be easy, because he sanctifies us' sets us apart.
Justification is another act that Jesus does on the cross for us, the law can not justify us...Read some more romans to get this all straight in you head...Peace my freind, IN Christ's LOve Bob
@truth4U2C If you are within the Reformed/Calvinist/Baptist tradition, your theologians have historically and consistently taught that believers are under the law as a rule of life. Even if Baptists & Evangelicals have stopped preaching this explicitly, they still treach it implicitly. The Christian walk is a struggle because using law as a rule of life is the same as throwing law on the flesh to quench sin, and using law to quench sin in the flesh is like throwing gasoline on a fire.
@MySocksSmell2 The proof of my transformation is the changed desire in my heart, for example 20 years ago I would of just fliped you off, and take another bong hit. Sure I have small struggles with the flesh, But God has set me free from years of being in bondage to sin.
Look, I don't like much of Bell's theology either, but I think you missed the boat on this one. He is not talking about those who prayerfully make a decision to preach Christ on the streets and make necessary preparations to do so, but rather those who are judgmental and think they are right and everyone else is wrong and so they just go out and spit judgment in peoples' faces. We are to treat those outside the Church in a vastly less critical way than those inside it (1 Corinthians 5:12).
@darthnozo I Corn 5:12 doesn't apply to what is being said in this video. To proclaim the Gospel is offensive, it dosn't really judge that lost, but warns them of the coming judgment they will face. To the lost it feels like being Judged because their Conscience wakes up, and because they love sin, they attack the preacher. Sure Some Preachers are like you say, But Rob does a very poor job expaining the differance, so those who causuly watch his vid, end up fighting against all Openair preacher
Sorry, almost forgot-John preached condemnation and repentance to be able to point to and magnify Christ as Christ subjected himself to be baptized though John thought Christ should have baptized him! Then Christ preached in public to repent and believe the gospel, if you do not repent, Christ preached you will perish. After Christ ascended to heaven, Peter Preached the same passage-3000 in one day were saved-it seemed to work for Christ, John, Peter, and Paul
Actually I did do this on a Saturday Morning outside of Kadena Gate 2 as far as about 95 second message because that how long I had when a red light. Eventually a few people coming backi the other way asked for tracts top consider what I actually preached. Am not sure if anyone got saved and hope they did-Oh yes, That was in Okinawa-I was a Marine. Great job on this.
Our church sent 61 people to Colombia, we were on stages with microphones in schools, at parks, in front of stores.. we did not tell people that they were going to hell and that they had to look out for the wrath of God. We told them our testimonies, and showed them that while we were still sinners Christ died for us, and shared with them how Jesus met us in our weakness.. and then told them what it meant to follow Jesus.. hundreds were saved, a demon was cast out, all we did was LOVE! not yell
@rissahil That's great! way to go...do you think that because I defind street preaching I'm agaisnt relationship evangelism? So is proclaiming the gospel only to be done at a certain Volume? is it the volume that upsets you or the context of the message? if you believe the bible, that unrepentant sinners are going to Hell, you may have to yell some times to warn them of the coming judgment....Is it unloving of me to warn them? is not what I'm doing Love? Do know the motive of my heart?
You do not have to yell to be heard. You do not have to yell to be loud. You do not have to stand on a street corner and be impersonal to reach the people around you. You can actually tell the world about Jesus, and preach the gospel by building relationships with people all over the world, and loving them, and sharing grace with them, and telling them about Jesus, and sharing your testimony. Stop thinking you have to do it this way. By getting up and yelling and being impersonal.
when Rob says God loves us just where we are I feel he means where we are at in our life God loves us. Sinner or church goer doesn't matter God loves us, however if we stay in our sinful ways an don't repent then yes we will separated forever. We must repent and ask jesus into our hearts this s vital but people need to know God loves them first and they have a chance to be saved by his love. God is does not want punish people in this life but will deny them from heaven because of sin.
I think when Rob says to love God with everything and others with kind of the same way Jesus did say those of you who have done good for the least of you have done the same unto me.so wouldn't me loving others show how much i love jesus. and Never once did Jesus yell out to everyone you are all going to hell repent, he spent time with them, served them, led them, taught them into a new understanding of how to live in this new covenant with God. He transformed them through love.
Both sides r right. I think bull horn guy is not wrong to be filled with anger towards sin, but to be honest to unsaved people its interpreted as anger towards them and judgmental. We attract more flies with honey then vinegar.
Someone please show me where God tells us to yell at random strangers? Never read that in the Bible EVER.
I'm not saying that street preaching is irrelevant, what I am saying is the people that do exactly what he is describing (That I have come across first hand). What about relationships?
Open air preachers may be called to do what they do, but I have never witnessed ANYONE being interested in ANYTHING they had to say.
@stephenwhite78 I could mention John the baptist, but you may respond he was not proclaiming the gospel, but Repent for the Kingdom is near. The point of this vid is that Rob does say "street preaching is irrelevant" I'm sure there are some bad street preachers out there, but Rob is out of line in this vid in the way he handles this subject.
Note, Jesus was kid to people, relational, he sat dow in front of crowds and preached in a relational manner .When Paul preached in athens he found common ground, acknowledged their beliefs before presenting his. Street preachers aren't relational, neither are they willing to present the side of God that is loving or compassionate. Hell is a big part of things, but it should not be the motivation for asking people to come to Christ, it should be his love.
@fallingup1986 Please re watch this vid, listen to what Rob says in light of scripture Sure some street preachers are nuts, I'm not definding them all, But be honest, don't be carried away with Rob's opening Point, so as you then take in what he says next....Listen to the points I make...Did I make any points that you think Square with scripture? or am I completly out to lunch? Be decerning, God's word should be lifted up over any of our emotional ties....
@truth4U2C I think both you and bell make good points. But I think what ultimately shades in my thinking is the idea of of street evangelism overall. If people know us by our love, and if we are to be making disciples then we need to do more then just preach on the street. Sometimes it takes developing friendships with the lost, being alive in our communities, serving and loving. I don't reject street preaching, I simply think a sunday morning church service and street evangelism throughout the
@truth4U2C week are not the only ways of reaching out to people and showing them the love of God. Forgive I am a little suspicious, I have seen too much of the turn to God and get a ticket to heaven mentality and the street preaching and too little of the loving and getting to know the lost people we come across in our schools or at work, in our daily lives.
@fallingup1986 I completly agree with you, all the above needs to happen, that's why Rob's singleing out Street preaching is un called for, note the point I make in the vid about Good Cop / Bad Cop, that is such a great way to start a love relationship with a lost person, let the street preach do the tuff job talking about Sin, Hell, Judgment, and then pure on the Grace of God...it's law and grace that completes the gospel message
Jesus' words and actions are not good enough for Bell. He wants a politically correct version of Jesus. Jesus' first words of ministry were "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near." Mat 4:17. Jesus said in Mat 25:46 "then they will go away to eternal punishment..." He called the Pharisees "You brood of vipers" to their face!
@houseguy4 Get out of the house dude! you rock! thanks for standing up for what the bible truly says...its far and few between that see Bell's spin...very decerning
@truth4U2C Thanks! Keep tellin' the story! Bible Study Fellowship BSF is helping me dig in and learn God's word - and separate it from man's version of God.
The problem I have with the street preachers in my area is that they judge me along with everybody else in the world simply because I am downtown on a Saturday night. I am there because I have a job downtown. I have already turned from my sins and have been saved. I do not appreciate the way that these people paint the entire community with one broad stroke. If these people would stop throwing their brother in the hell category then perhaps we could encourage each other and swap ideas.
@Say7what7you7will Street preachers are not preaching to those who have repented and are trusting Jesus, they are there for the lost. they are not there to judge, they are there to warn the lost that God will judge them.
From God's perspective, when we look at the 10 commandments, and we see that we are all sinners, "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" So the broad stroke is what the bible says,
@truth4U2C I appreciate your response to my post. I am well aware of the focus of street preachers to save the lost. I feel I must make it clear that the street preachers I was referring to were Mennonites and shouldn't have implied that all SPs were like them. Other street preachers do recognize me as a brother and we are able to mutually encourage and love each other in the Lord. The Mennonites, however, continue to try and preach to me as if I were lost, even after I tell them I know Christ.
Rob Bell isnt saying what they are doing is wrong, its just how they are doing it. Condemning people doesn't show God's love, and grace. which in turn is not going to make people attracted to God. Trying to win people over out of fear is not going to build a good foundation for their faith. Your supposed to show your love by what you do, and telling people their sinners, and going to burn in hell isnt really showing that love. A lot of these guys preach about grace but dont really understand it
@faustn "Condemning people doesn't show God's love, and grace. which in turn is not going to make people attracted to God." Street preachers arn't "condemning people" they're warning people that God is a Just judge that will judge them....all man Kind is already Condemned...fall of Man...do a study on the concept of the "fear of God" read in your bible about who we are to have a health fear of.....peace
@faustn Christ wants us to preach truth. There is much not going on that quite a few do not understand. Our job is to give the scriptures but not wander if anyone understands-the Spirit of God works in those who hear whether the next day or ten years from now. Did Christ ever stop anyone from open air preaching? Christ cpommisioned preaching for the great commission as well as his disciples in his earthly ministry.
there are a ton of things I could argue about this response to Rob Bell but just from glancing over a few comments I see some have already been hit on, so I will just say that maybe Rob isnt attacking all street preachers but just a few. Now in my experience I havent come across any that I'd say were loving and someone I would want to talk to more, but maybe there are some good ones out there. But can we all agree that what worked in the times of Paul need to be changed for our culture?
@NCCRevolution The gospel is timeless, it is by nature offensive, bad news your condemined, because your a sinner....good news Christ paid the price....If a person dosn't think that their a sinner...then, the gospel is foolish to them...listen to a message from Ray compfort called "Hell's best kept secret" you can find it easliy on google....Peace
Where in scripture does it say that God loves us as we are? It may not be in those exact words, but looking at various scriptures that touch on the fact that God loves the WORLD, namely ALL OF THE PEOPLE IN IT, so much that he sent his son to DIE for us, means that he loves us even in our sinful manner. This doesn't mean we have some things to change, but he DOES love us with all his heart.
Where in scripture does it say that God loves us as we are? It may not be in those exact words, but looking at various scriptures that touch on the fact that God loves the WORLD, namely ALL OF THE PEOPLE IN IT, so much that he sent his son to DIE for us, means that he loves us even in our sinful manner. This doesn't mean we have some things to change, but he DOES love us with all his heart.
@amesgdg Yes while we we're still sinners Christ died for us....opon telling the sinner this we clearly see an invatation to repent, have a change of mind, heart and derection, from Jesus...God's love is recievied by those who know thier wretched state, and out of love seek to follow the Lord, and not stay in sin. Rob Bell's desire to say that bullhorn guy is misssing the love, could be a good point but in making his point he confuses the true gospel message that starts with sin..Peace
I am a Christian, but I absolutely loathe walking by preachers who are YELLING at people. You know what i see when I walk by someone like this? I see disgust and anger. I don't dislike open air preaching. I have seen it done VERY effectively, by a man who started with Jesus' love and moved into other issues from there. I'm not saying open air preachers should censor what they talk about, but starting off with brimstone comes off as hatred, not love.
@amesgdg This is great statement...so can you now see How Rob Bell's handling of this issue condems all open air preachers... the concepts of Hell, Sin, Repent, should show up in a witness encounter...He has many Christians joining his band wagon who I fear don't know how to decern the princibles of grace in lijght of our position....Peace
This Is absolutely out of context.... Rob Bell is talking about a flawed ministry style. YELLING AT PEOPLE NEVER GETS THE POINT ACROSS!!! If you want to spread the gospel you do like Jesus did. He loved people. He was gentle. Jesus came to show his love and mercy. He did not come to yell at people for their sin but rather save them from their sin.
Only time you see Jesus whipping people and yelling was when his own "People" (the priests) made the temple a den of thieves.
@gaytron87 If this is out of Context, then show be from the bible where I'm off. "flawed ministry style" my point is that it is biblicllly sound, not flawed...Sure yelling can be debated, but I'm saying he's throwing out the baby with the bath water in this vid by not clearly saying what is the gospel in light or our sin.
@truth4U2C I understand where you're coming from. Understand Rob Bell isn't putting down the context of what the bull horn man was saying. Rob bell was pointing out how offensive it was that the Bull Horn man yelled these things at strangers.
Jesus only reprimanded his own people and extended Grace to the Gentiles who didn't know better.
@gaytron87 I think Rob is disagreeing with much more then just the volume of the message...being told your a sinner is offensive...we can not sugar coat that part of the nature of man...some bullhorn guys lack love...I get it....but Rob is at least very sloppy with these princibles. Jesus said we would be hated because of him...
note this comment from Christianity Today " Rob says. "We're rediscovering Christianity as an Eastern religion, as a way of life. Legal metaphors for faith don't deliver a way of life." This quote is still online, check it out, After reading this I see that he has an agenda... note "Legal metaphors" in other words "the Gospel" does deliver a way of life... the bible it calls us to be sanctified, and we are to be made like Christ.
I'm still trying to figure out who this Rob Bell guy is. It seems everyone knows but me. So without any pre-conceived notions about his character, I can tell in this short video that he is not preaching the true Gospel and clearly not living according to God's Word.
@ladivolfan Rob Bell is one of the emergent church leaders who as a whole is trying to interpert the Bible as subjective, not ojective, not absolute, Keep on decerning the truth for Truth's sake
rob bell isnt even critisizing open preachers. just the way they approach it....jesus didnt come to scare people into becoming a christian in fact he let people accept it or not...not force people into it....jesus came to give hope...the way some people preach doesnt build faith hope and love....it just puts people off.
I had the same experience outside of a Coldplay concert (I'm a pastor by the way). I think this idea is incredibly biblical; being honest with people about their spiritual state as the apostle Paul was, didn't mean he went off on them to the point of basically turning them away from Christianity. Who are we, even as Christians to condemn others. Do we have the authority to condemn? We have been forgiven and we are called (in Scripture) to forgive. I've yet to see a person respond positive
@codypolk1973 Sure I like to hear that I don't have to repent, and that God loves me just the way I am, but is that the truth? The true gospel is upsetting, because it shows us in a true light... John 15:18 "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.
@beaushilder Read the Bible yourself, Rob throws out the gospel, by not clearly calling sinners to repentance...why don't you use scripture to dismantle my point? this isn't my take on scripture, it is scripture, read it, please seek the truth, while it can be found...Peace
@beaushilder If that is so, please from scripture show that what Rob says "God loves us just the way we are" is biblical? I've shown the repent measage, from scripture, not my take...its in the bible, read it yourself, don't trust me or Rob, do the work, what dose the bible say?
why must you poeple constantly pull this man down.....he is honest and exposing and also revolutionising christianity.....what are you doing? oh thats right your the christian police you sit around with enough time to pull apart to pull apart others....
"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside." --1 Cor. 5:12. We cannot judge the world in the same way we judge Christ followers. How can people repent when they don't understand what it means? How can they understand unless we love them to Christ? No one will care how much you say until you show them how much you care.
I think this guy means well but he's not addressing what Rob's actually talking about. The idea is that you wouldn't want to listen to someone who is up in your face, let alone care what they have to say. A street preacher needs to be compassionate and loving, if not then it's all condemnation and "scaring" people into listening, and that is not what God had in mind.
Sure, But My real concern is that Rob doesn't inform the lost of the coming judgment, He is so concerned that people will be upset with the concept of hell that he never makes the point that we are all sinners doomed to hell. Rob throws out the baby with the bath water in the vid by carelessly teaching something other then the gospel. Be on your toes, check what I've said, and what Rob has said, Who is more inline with the scriptures, because my intent is to give glory to God through his word.
How do you know that Rob Bell "doesn't inform the lost of the coming judgment"? The point of THIS VIDEO is the ineffectiveness of a stranger screaming hell, fire, and condemnation on the street. Rob Bell is exactly right. Street preaching is very ineffective and many people feel judged and condemned by jerks like the one that is portrayed in this video. I personally have been offended but street preachers and know many others that hate Christians as a result of this insensitive approach.
P.S. I have a Masters of Divinity from an evangelical, conservative seminary and have been in full-time OUTREACH ministry for over 15 years. You are totally missing the point of this NOOMA video.
I get Rob's point, note this comment from Christianity Today " Rob says. "We're rediscovering Christianity as an Eastern religion, as a way of life. Legal metaphors for faith don't deliver a way of life." This quote is still online, check it out, My point is that Rob throws the baby out with the bath water, "Legal Metaphors" is what makes up the gospel, Rob Bell doesn't either understand how the gospel works or he willfully is trying to see Christianity as an Eastern Religion.
How do you know that Rob Bell "doesn't inform the lost of the coming judgment"? I have read, watched, and listened for Rob to proclaim the gospel, I think he is very close to being a univerlist...I don't know everything about Rob, I hope I'm wrong but would you at lease agree that his handling of the subject was done very poorly?
now I don't think that all street corner preaching is like this, and it sounds like you have a heart after God and want to help humanity, but there are a fair amount of very judgmental teachings going on that make christianity seem like a religion of judgment rather than a religion of an incredible love that God gave to us. The greatest commandment is to love God and to love our neighbors as ourselves, and I'm not so sure telling someone how much of a sinner they are is loving them
I appreciate your willingness to stand up for what you believe and your boldness in evangelism. And you make a lot of great points, especially about caring too much about what other people will think. That hinders so much good that could be done, I'm not sure if Rob Bell cares too much about what other people think as much as he hates it when people get a complete misrepresentation of christianity because of judgmental hell fire and brimstone sermons
I think our culture, and many in the church, mis-understand Judicial principles if you are guilty of speeding, the law has a pre determined punishment set for that crime, a fine of $60 to $160. like wise if you simply are guilty of saying one lie, the bible is clear about the punishment that goes with that crime, eternal separation from God, (Hell) 1 Cor. 6:9-10.
So when a Christians point out that men are guilty of breaking God's law, the judgment is already in place, we know what God will do with sinners who haven't received Christ's gift, the payment of their sins. We're not judging, we're informing sinners of the Judgment that is already been determined by God. Of course this is best said in love, and some street preachers are less loving, but Rob I fear throws the baby out with the bath water in this video. Peace
God Loves us, yes, he loves us so much that he took on flesh, Emanual, God with us, lived a perfect sinless life, then he showed us how much he loved us, by taking our punishment, for our sins, if he loved us the way we are? He won't have had to suffer for our sins, when we realize the pain we caused Jesus, we being greatful, choose to stop sinning, "repent" Please understand, to repent is not works it is the love response we show God for his payment, we are born again, made new, this is change.
1 Cor. 6:9-10 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders [10] nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. [NIV] Note we are defined by our sins, by the grace of God I was a drunkard, now by his power, Ive been sober for 20 years.
For years I claimed Christ but remained unrepentant, drinking was my true god. Money, fame, sex, even watching TV can all become an Idol, if there is something more important to you then God, your still in rebellion against God. The call from scripture is clear God want us to change, become Christ like. Romans 5:10
10 For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!
Love to share a cup with you, I'll be in England the last 2 weeks in May... I totally agree with your statement, so like I use to say in the play ground as a kid...He started it! yes there are some street preachers that are over the top, but Rob throws out the baby with the bath water in this vid. Note what I say to "4inthefire" next to this comment. I'm very concerned that Rob preaches another gospel. Peace Bob
Does the street ministry work which you are involved or affiliated with ever preach "hell", "burn", "anger", "wrath", "sin", "repent", "eternal damnation"?
The reason I ask is that if you are doing that, then Bullhorn probably applies to you.
If you are NOT doing that but preaching love, hope, forgiveness, freedom, grace then Bullhorn probably doesn't apply to you.
In the street ministry I'm involved with we start with the Law which include "hell", "burn", "anger", "wrath", "sin", "eternal damnation" then we go into Grace, "Repent" "Trust" "Love" and "Follow" The good news is not good without the bad news first...listen to a message online called "Hell's best keep secret" by Ray Comfort. Rob's statements about God loving us just the way we are, are very misleading, according to him we're OK, then why did Christ die? I think Rob is ashamed of the Gospel.
Did you read this from Christianity Today " Rob says. "We're rediscovering Christianity as an Eastern religion, as a way of life. Legal metaphors for faith don't deliver a way of life." This quote is still online, check it out, My point is that Rob throws the baby out with the bath water, "Legal Metaphors" is what makes up the gospel, Rob Bell doesn't either understand how the gospel works or he willfully is trying to see Christianity as an Eastern Religion
Haven't read that one yet.... but something that strikes me as obvious is that Christianity IS an Eastern religion at it's heart.... Jesus was a practicing Jew who said he did not come to do away with the Jewish law, but to fullfil it. The only difference between your average Jew and a follower of "The Way" was that they no longer needed to offer blood sacrifice for sin. Christianity as Peter, Paul, John, etc would have understood it was Judaism without animal sacrifice but with the Holy Spirit.
I understand your point here but I have never heard Rob asserting that we are fine without Jesus. What he does say often is that we need Jesus. He asserts that Jesus is the only way to know God. Jesus died to give us relationship with God, to restore the relationship that had been lost between man and God. To live like Jesus is to listen to God and we can't live like Jesus, without God. We are called to seek after the Kingdom, to bring people to know the love of the Father.
This Guy is missing the point, Rob agrees with all these scriptures, the point is that some forms of evangelism are more effective than others, I would agree with Rob in saying that Relationship/one on one/ serving evangelism is more effective than bullhorn evangelism,
Note this comment from Christianity Today " Rob says. "We're rediscovering Christianity as an Eastern religion, as a way of life. Legal metaphors for faith don't deliver a way of life." This quote is still online, check it out, My point is that Rob throws the baby out with the bath water, "Legal Metaphors" is what makes up the gospel, Rob Bell doesn't either understand how the gospel works or he willfully is trying to see Christianity as an Eastern Religion
2 Tim Is about correcting the Church not sinners, Rob Bell is not saying he does not believe in Hell or Repentance he is simply painting a picture of effective evangelism
I think something that needs to be noticed here is that Rob Bell never says the Bullhorn guy is doing something wrong. He doesn't say he's sinning. This issue that Rob is tackling is not one of right vs. wrong. It is an issue regarding better vs. best. What the bullhorn guy is doing may not be wrong, but Rob is saying that it isn't the best way to reach people.
Your splitting hairs here, most all who watch Bullhorn come away with a negative impression of open air preaching, as a matter of fact the bullhorn vid has made many of us in street ministry receive additional persecution from fellow believers because of Rob's negative representation of street ministry. Have you ever seen some of the good street preachers God is using for his glory? Who made Rob judge on what's better? by what standard do we measure his conclusion?
Well, then that is great that there are good street preachers. I'm not discounting the actual act of street ministry at all. I'm simply saying that Rob Bell's point in his video was that this particular street preacher was not proclaiming Christ's love, he was proclaiming God's wrath. And thus, proved himself ineffective.
By the way, the word used for loving our neighbour is Agape A Godly, complete, self-sacrificing form of love - the fullest the human heart is capable of before Christ returns and we are made whole. This is the same form of love that we are to love God with (because it is all we are capable of)....look in a commentary before judging next time.
Well said, I do over make my point here, There clearly is a call for us to love sacrificially God and our neighbor, but I think Rob lifts up our love of man higher then, our love towards God. He seems to do that in other things he's taught, I'll sent you another video to watch...Peace
I don't believe this to be true concerning Robs teachings, this is an assumption on your part. Loving one another needs to be emphasised as we clearly aren't very good at it -PARTICUARLY CHRISTIANS! I believe to truly love God is to love the creation that He so loves AS He loves. Shalom is seeking to restore the world to God's original creational intent. Seeking to restore humanities enmity with each other through loving one another can therefore never be overemphasized.
You would need to support this statement from scripture, in all my studies, I've never seen this to be from God's word. We are to be good managers of God's creation (genesis) Yes but "to restore humanities enmity with each other" will not happen by our love, but upon the 2nd comming of Christ...Our mission is the spreading of the gospel, So some will be restored back to God. Peace..
Spreading the Gospel of God's Kingdom is - seeking - to do the will of God which is restoring His creational intent (this is not to say we can do this in fullness, or without God Spirit). This can be observed all throughout scripture starting from the call of Abraham. We'll have to agree to disagree I think. I wish you well.
You took Robs message out of context! God does love us just as we are, because there is nothing we can do to make God love us more or less even by converting. It was God's love for all creation "whilst still fallen" that Christ lived, died and rose again. If this is the main point of the Gospel don't you think this would be the most important point to shout at people about, not Gods condemnation. I think your bias towards your own points of view clouds your judgement.
God clearly does love us, you have supported your position correctly from scripture, but not the way we are. I know believers end up having bias, I hope to always be humble to see mine, if I have one it is from the endless misrepresentation of Christ and his message compared to scripture. The best message I've heard to make this point is from Ray Comfort called "Hell's best kept Secret"it is easily found online for free to listen too.
Please read the comments between CalebJPearson and myself (the blog comments below this one) to learn about Rob's bias. If you thnk I have one, please use the same decernment on Rob, because he admits he wants to "rediscoer Christianty as an eastern religion" Let me know what you think, peace Bob
If God cannot love us perfectly as we are here and now, you are saying that God is incapable of perfect love. This belief would be counter to Christian Tradition, therefore inaccurate.
I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying we need to repent, because we are imperfect. God's Love is perfect....our response is to repent and trust God's perfect act of love on the cross.
Matthew 7:17 A good tree produces good fruit, & a bad tree produces bad fruit. 18 A good tree can't produce bad fruit, & a bad tree can't produce good fruit.. I have seen the good fruit this specific message & all of Rob Bells ministries are producing where people are in love with Jesus as result of. Where is the good fruit coming of your message? We are the body & no body beats its own feet when they are moving in the right direction. It takes care of them so they can go further.
Good for you to use the correct way to judge, I'm greatful that you love me enough to boldly call me out. I will just say that "yes" I have fruit, I don't think it wise to list my fruit, you would see my love in action it you lived near me. Regarding those who Love Jesus though Rob's ministry, I hope they truly do love Jesus, but my grave concern is that they don't really know Jesus, because I fear Rob preaches a differant gospel.
did you miss the point? Jesus went to peoples homes to show them love he went to the SINNERS homes and Showed them LOVE not the wrath and anger of God. When he showed wrath and anger He was in the Church speaking to the hypocrites who were making a mockery of the church. When he spoke to the masses he spoke about how to follow God to the fullest if you are going to follow Him at all.
I understand what your saying, but as instructed by the great commision, we are to preach the gospel, read acts, public preaching was the norm. Listen to a message online called "Hell's best kept secret" the good news isn't good if you don't know the bad news first.
What kind of brother are you to being down a fellow Christian to the masses. If you have a problem with what he says you follow the BIBLE when it says you speak with him one on one . After that you bring another. Brother and so on. This is my most direct way to speak with you or who ever posted it.
Many in the Christian community have tried to reach out to Rob with the truth, the fact is he has an agenda. Christianity Today article titled "The Emergent Mystique" "Rob says. "We're rediscovering Christianity as an Eastern religion, as a way of life. Legal metaphors for faith don't deliver a way of life." your welcome to read it yourself, Rob clearly has an agenda, he want to rewrite Christianity,
He clearly undermines the gospel by saying "Legal metaphors for faith don't deliver a way of life" The gospel is a Legal contract with God that delivers us from his wrath. Romans 1:16 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. Now I'm praying for you to see this very important point.
I wish I could sit down and pray for you and show you that God has such a bigger plan for his church. Not taring eachother down. I have faith that you will make a change for Christ and your fruit will multiply because you support your brothers and try to build them up instead of taring them down. Yes the bible says faithful is the wounds of a friend but hey this I would say is a wound but its to you specifically to build you up. I will be praying for Gods full will in your life...
Are you talking to me or Rob? Many more people have seen Rob's rippping down of open air preaching (bullhorn), then this video. So I find it, a very one sided if you don't see Rob in the same light. I'll still recieve the prayers thankfully, for I am only a wretched sinner saved by a loving God.
i do like the way you criticized it and think your standpoint is true like he could have used so much more bible in this video and i dont believe its my favorite by anymeans. he did do a bad job on this one to be honest.
i get exactly what u mean. living in atlanta and having my mom work downtown ive actually wittnessed this before, and honestly the guy didnt look like the video. however the same effect was having with people. they were giving him looks of shame and hate and like "shut up" attitude. i like how u used the bible his point is just preach in a friendly way like jesus did and it would be more effective cuz jesus didnt teach in a way if u dont believe in me right now u will burn forever. cont.
Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.
In light of this verse and 1 Corinthians 13, how do you back up street preaching? As a Christian, I think it's silly. I hate walking by and hearing people preaching when all I want is some coffee. It's so annoying. If you really wanna preach then go feed the poor and preach to whom Jesus said to. Luke 4:18- 19.
i love hearing it too... over a cup of coffee or while I'm feeding the homeless... not by someone obnoxious with a megaphone. It doesn't matter what's coming out if all people here is I hate you. Open air preaching doesn't work that well anymore. Scripture says to know the times. You gotta find a way to preach so others listen like Paul did with the Greeks.
Yes there are BHG's who Preach "Hate" but Rob's sloppy job on his teaching includes the correct principles of the gospel message, he throws out the baby with the bath water...
Let me ask you this. Has anyone you know of ever come to Christ through open air preaching? I don't mean said a prayer, I mean a full-fledged disciple. I'm telling you that you need to preach the gospel in a different way. No one said anything about not preaching, just not open air. It just isn't that helpful in Western Culture. Can God use it? Of course. But we become all things to all men, relating with them in the way they are used to. It just doesn't work that well bro.
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stop0and0think 3 weeks ago
I think that you may have taken a few things out of context here.
He's not saying that he's confused by the scripture, he's saying he's confused that he and other Christians get stereotyped to be "bible-bashers".
Don't get me wrong, the world needs to hear the gospel, and we need to preach it, but I'm pretty sure the video is saying that this way can hurt more than help sometimes. I find it to be aimed more at people like the Westboro Baptist Church (which is an extreme example).
rjwaqa 8 months ago 2
@rjwaqa He says we don't understand all the "condeming and converting" earlier in the vid..... the method to spread the good news is "Preaching" Romans 14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
truth4U2C 8 months ago
@Radnartjie0205 I like his vids too, as poetry, not from God. Yes we can extend grace to him, BUT since he is teaching this as from God it is very dangerous for those who don't know the truth...Some may think that God is at peace with them, but since they've been told that they will go to heaven without trusting in Christ's work on the cross or repenting they end up our side of God's grace...we have to to the hard job of talking about sin...Peace
truth4U2C 10 months ago
@Radnartjie0205 Did I, is it that God loves us just the way we are? that loves wins and we're all going to Heaven? Rob Bell as of late wrote a book (Love Wins) where he teaches that everyone is going to heaven, I'm sorry but the bible just doesn't teach that......peace
truth4U2C 10 months ago
lol wow you missed the hole point of that video its not about telling "bullhorn guy" to stop preaching the gospel but to stop trying to scare people and start showing them Gods love yes the bible talks about hell but there is alot more about love in it. and EVERYONE knows what the bible has to say about hell so why teach on that instead of the more important part of Christianity witch is love.
TheJason9119 10 months ago 2
@TheJason9119 "EVERYONE knows what the bible has to say about hell" Really? who's going to Hell?
truth4U2C 10 months ago
@truth4U2C ok i worded that wrong everyone knows what bull horn guy normally has to say about hell know one knows everything about hell and i cant tell you specifically who all is going to hell i know that the bible is very clear that we have to repent of our sins and accept Jesus as the sacrifice for our sin so that would mean anyone who rejects Jesus but or anyone who commits blasphemy against the holy spirit
TheJason9119 10 months ago
@TheJason9119 Dude you and I see eye to eye on what the Bible clearly says...re-watch what Rob Bell says...He is not teaching what the Bible says...in his new book "Love Wins" he shows that he believes all people go to Heaven Look I get it, some bullhorn preachers are unloving, but most tell the truth about what the bible says. Luke5: 31 Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
truth4U2C 10 months ago
@truth4U2C i personally dont see anything wrong with what he says in the bullhorn guy video but i haven't read Love Wins so i cant comment on that book if it says everyone goes to heaven thats wrong but but again im just not catching anything wrong with this video
TheJason9119 9 months ago
Actually, the Bible does indicate that the Love that we show to others really DOES reflect the Love that we have for God. Matthew 25:40 -- “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
madsquirrelgirl 10 months ago
A good example of how starkly different the same message can be approached. Rob Bell is not disagreeing with the Gospel, he's disagreeing with Bullhorn Guy's approach. And by approach I do not mean "open air preaching." THE POINT IS that Bullhorn Guy is preaching the Gospel with NO LOVE for the people he is preaching to. He is no better than the "resounding gong" or the "clanging symbol" that Paul talks about. People don't respond to this. They respond to LOVE.
LOVE is the whole point.
madsquirrelgirl 10 months ago
I wonder if the bullhorn guys argue with there wives the way they preach "love"
gtrfurby 10 months ago
Excellent video ! Hell does exist and to not warn people about it is NOT LOVE . To tell a person "god loves you just the way you are " is NOT LOVE . As Todd Friel says -" we don't say turn or burn , but we know it's true " . Of course the whole message of a preacher or christian to the lost should not just be turn from your sin or your going to hell . A saving message will include the law FIRST then the gospel and it should be preached with love , but often it will be hated by men .
strugger1 10 months ago
He does love you - just as you are . Do you not love your children just as they are and is his love not infinitely greateer than yours. Of course we need to change and Rob Bell is not denying that . So many Christians are destroying the message because they harranging and insulting people . They seemed to love the message but they didn't love me and they generated nothing in me but contempt. I finally met someone who accepted me and loved me just just as I was and he saved my life..
calum66 11 months ago 2
@calum66: AMEN AMEN AMEN!!!!!
madsquirrelgirl 10 months ago
@calum66 great point :)
TheJason9119 10 months ago
..how do you want others to teach the weaker ones ..I hope not the way you just taught us ,,with smirks ,laughs and judgement...at least do it in Love ..CHRIST'S LOVE... Be Blessed
bino972 11 months ago
the gospel will enter in the ear of the hearer and the spirit will assist the hearer in what is and what is not the truth...but if you have a disagreement to what bob bell is teaching ..than you first need to bring your problem with your brother to your brother before you bring your offering before the Lord..write Mr Bell himself first..and please dont do it like when but you sat there in your video, with laughs and smirks to his teaching .
bino972 11 months ago
.now if we are looking for mistakes and fault finding ...than you will find it ..especially in scriptures ...when you look for it...because we really do not understand the times .from when Jesus was teaching..but we do understand ,what He was teaching .and it has been passed down from generation to generation ,,and now i believe .we are doing our best to give the Word to the world as we were taught ..some of us are not as good as you in this ,,either way,
bino972 11 months ago
hey Bob.I just want to say this ..If you feel this man mr bell is wrong ..I cant read anywhere in the scriptures where Jesus even one time preached hell fire and brimstone,,No He did preach .be careful when judging,,for with the same judgement you use will be used on you...but honestly.that type of teaching was not given to the disciples to preach neither was it screaming and yelling ..no it was true love and the way to get to know the one true god and savior...JESUS CHRIST..................
bino972 11 months ago
hey Bob.I just want to say this ..If you feel this man mr bell is wrong ..I cant read anywhere in the scriptures where Jesus even one time preached hell fire and brimstone,,No He did preach .be careful when judging,,for with the same judgement you use will be used on you...but honestly.that type of teaching was not given to the disciples to preach neither was it screaming and yelling ..no it was true love and the way to get to know the one true god and savior...JESUS CHRIST
bino972 11 months ago
in downtown fresno california there is a black man who does it all by himself on tuesday or thursday.
bravesbills 11 months ago
Fourth Point: In the original Greek (Mark 12 v28-32) the work for love that is used is the same (agape) so if you say that loving our neighbour is self preservation love the so is loving GOD...... hmmm, however the other way round makes perfect sense, GOD calls us to go out and love others with his love that is in us, to be living examples of his love
Fifthly, it is not our place to condemn others. Scripture says do not judge, only GOD can do that.
Mike9Metalhead 1 year ago
@Mike9Metalhead Either way, if you don't warn sinners of God's coming judgment, your not truly loving them. example, Jesus loves you!...great! Jesus will improve your life...great!...My mom loves me, and drugs improve my life...why do I need Jesus? Jesus Saves, From What? From God just wrath, OH in that case I need Jesus.
truth4U2C 1 year ago
@Mike9Metalhead "Fifthly, it is not our place to condemn others. Scripture says do not judge, only GOD can do that" All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God...Romans 3:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord...Romans 6:23 Please think this through, We are all condemn already because we have all sinned...So a good preacher is WARNING, not condemning, not judging....do you now see the differance? Peace
truth4U2C 1 year ago
Second point: I noticed you said there are certain criteria that God judges us against, but wait a minute, isn't that what the Jewish rabi's said...... isn't that what Jesus came to speak against and refute...... The criteria is that we believe in Jesus Christ and let him into out lives, and I mean really believe not just say words, if you really believe it will change you life.
Third: Often you miss his point and take it out of context, so your critique means nothing
Mike9Metalhead 1 year ago
@Mike9Metalhead The criteria "Law" was given to the Jews, and it shows us that the heart of Man can not be legislated, we can approach anybody on the planet, compare their life to God's standard "the law" awake their conscience, so they see their need for Jesus's sacrifice on the cross....we see this done in acts 2 by Peter, and Jesus and the rich young ruler....Rob's gospel (to me) seems to lack the need to repent...Peace
truth4U2C 1 year ago
First point: The thing about this is that Rob Bell is not criticising open air preaching, rather he is criticising the soul use of "hell, fire and brimstone" in open air preaching (incidentally I'm fairly sure that Jesus never preached that. It was in fact invented by the catholic church to scare people into being christians. It's also how the old pagan religions worked, you must sacrifice this or the Gods will curse you....... hmmm)
Mike9Metalhead 1 year ago
therefore in some sense this video is unwarranted, although it is always a good idea to analyse all teaching. Yes, it is important to understand GODS wroth, but the point of Jesus is that GOD loves us and we are saved by grace (if we believe) there is nothing we can do about it. we are IMPERFECT there is no possible way we could earn GODS love or be reconciled to him and not go to hell through our own human actions. (that's Judaism) it's by grace alone we are saved. We should be preaching that!!
Mike9Metalhead 1 year ago
@Mike9Metalhead Yes you have stated that we are saved by faith, I agree, but clearly we are called to repent, that is to have a changed mind and direction, this change dosn't save us, it happens because we're thankful for what Christ has done. We also obey, becasue of who Christ is, He is the Lord of LORDS. It just seems very weak of Rob to not give the whole story...peace
truth4U2C 1 year ago
@Mike9Metalhead Jesus taught more about hell than anyone else in the Word of God. Jesus described hell as an unquenchable fire (Matthew 3:12), a place of eternal fire, (Matthew 25:41) eternal punishment (Matthew 25:46), and as a place of torment, fire, and agony (Luke 16:23-24). Jesus taught specifically about hell many times in His ministry (Matthew 5:22, 29-30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15,33; Mark 9:43-47; Luke 12:6; 16:23).
truth4U2C 1 year ago
I used to struggle with two different Jesuses; One loved unconditionally like my earthly parents & the other demanded life-long behavior modification. In the Bible, Truth4U2C says, "I don't find that he loves us just the way we are." I conclude he's right. Taking the words "go and sin no more" out of Jesus' mouth is false advertising. The nicer Jesus of my child-like imagination never existed. Biblical love is not philosophical. It's obedience-based & I don't need that. I quit Christianity.
MySocksSmell2 1 year ago
@MySocksSmell2 Romans 5:8 "but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us" We Can't live by obedience we live by faith in what Jesus did for us while we were still sinners. We follow Jesus in Obedience because of who he is, and for what he's done for us. Galatians 3:24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
truth4U2C 1 year ago
You are right to say "It's obedience-based" but we are not the ones who are obedient, it was Christ's sinless life that he laid down for us, HIs obedient, perfect sinless life was what was needed to take the wrath of God for us. he then gave us his rightousness, so we can stand in front of the Holiness of God. Peace
truth4U2C 1 year ago
"Galatians 3:24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor."
@truth4U2C Those verses are used to generate altar calls, sinner's prayers, decisions for Christ & professions of faith. Salvation is theoretically presented as by grace through faith to make converts, but in practice believers always end up reversing the order to live by faith through grace while trying to maintain assurance
MySocksSmell2 1 year ago
@MySocksSmell2 You have made a correct observation, Some do get it backwards. conversions is a work of the Holy Spirit, so many try by their own will to to be christian, but in time fall away...read the Parable of the sower to seed how God shows us ahead of time what this will look like. Look at John 3 then ask yourself "Can I born myself? If you are struggling to walk with the Lord, just keep your eyes on him and trust him to finish the work he has started....
truth4U2C 1 year ago
Hebrews 12:1-2 1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
truth4U2C 1 year ago
@truth4U2C Scripture tells believers to "examine themselves" to see if they are in the faith and to make their "calling and election sure". The only way to do that is to link evidence of saving faith to behavior. Reformed/Calvinist theology teaches believers are under law as a rule of life, but that information is withheld while telling unbelievers it's just a tutor to bring them to Christ. If law ends where Christ begins, walking with the Lord wouldn't be a struggle to verify justification.
MySocksSmell2 1 year ago
@MySocksSmell2 "calling and election sure" now read Matthew 22 1-14 note this Matthew 22:14 “For many are invited, but few are chosen.” If your struggle with sin is overwelming you, continue to seek after God to deliver you, and give you a new heart. "walking with the Lord wouldn't be a struggle to verify justification" I know what I think your trying to say here, but let me correct ths statement "walking with the Lord would be easy, because he sanctifies us' sets us apart.
truth4U2C 1 year ago
Justification is another act that Jesus does on the cross for us, the law can not justify us...Read some more romans to get this all straight in you head...Peace my freind, IN Christ's LOve Bob
truth4U2C 1 year ago
@truth4U2C If you are within the Reformed/Calvinist/Baptist tradition, your theologians have historically and consistently taught that believers are under the law as a rule of life. Even if Baptists & Evangelicals have stopped preaching this explicitly, they still treach it implicitly. The Christian walk is a struggle because using law as a rule of life is the same as throwing law on the flesh to quench sin, and using law to quench sin in the flesh is like throwing gasoline on a fire.
MySocksSmell2 1 year ago
@MySocksSmell2 The proof of my transformation is the changed desire in my heart, for example 20 years ago I would of just fliped you off, and take another bong hit. Sure I have small struggles with the flesh, But God has set me free from years of being in bondage to sin.
truth4U2C 1 year ago
Look, I don't like much of Bell's theology either, but I think you missed the boat on this one. He is not talking about those who prayerfully make a decision to preach Christ on the streets and make necessary preparations to do so, but rather those who are judgmental and think they are right and everyone else is wrong and so they just go out and spit judgment in peoples' faces. We are to treat those outside the Church in a vastly less critical way than those inside it (1 Corinthians 5:12).
darthnozo 1 year ago
@darthnozo I Corn 5:12 doesn't apply to what is being said in this video. To proclaim the Gospel is offensive, it dosn't really judge that lost, but warns them of the coming judgment they will face. To the lost it feels like being Judged because their Conscience wakes up, and because they love sin, they attack the preacher. Sure Some Preachers are like you say, But Rob does a very poor job expaining the differance, so those who causuly watch his vid, end up fighting against all Openair preacher
truth4U2C 1 year ago
@truth4U2C People don't attack the preacher because they love sin, people attack the preacher because the preacher attacks them.
Arfat 1 year ago
@Arfat Does the preacher attack them with lies or truth?
truth4U2C 1 year ago
Sorry, almost forgot-John preached condemnation and repentance to be able to point to and magnify Christ as Christ subjected himself to be baptized though John thought Christ should have baptized him! Then Christ preached in public to repent and believe the gospel, if you do not repent, Christ preached you will perish. After Christ ascended to heaven, Peter Preached the same passage-3000 in one day were saved-it seemed to work for Christ, John, Peter, and Paul
daveme7 1 year ago
Actually I did do this on a Saturday Morning outside of Kadena Gate 2 as far as about 95 second message because that how long I had when a red light. Eventually a few people coming backi the other way asked for tracts top consider what I actually preached. Am not sure if anyone got saved and hope they did-Oh yes, That was in Okinawa-I was a Marine. Great job on this.
daveme7 1 year ago
Our church sent 61 people to Colombia, we were on stages with microphones in schools, at parks, in front of stores.. we did not tell people that they were going to hell and that they had to look out for the wrath of God. We told them our testimonies, and showed them that while we were still sinners Christ died for us, and shared with them how Jesus met us in our weakness.. and then told them what it meant to follow Jesus.. hundreds were saved, a demon was cast out, all we did was LOVE! not yell
rissahil 1 year ago
@rissahil That's great! way to go...do you think that because I defind street preaching I'm agaisnt relationship evangelism? So is proclaiming the gospel only to be done at a certain Volume? is it the volume that upsets you or the context of the message? if you believe the bible, that unrepentant sinners are going to Hell, you may have to yell some times to warn them of the coming judgment....Is it unloving of me to warn them? is not what I'm doing Love? Do know the motive of my heart?
truth4U2C 1 year ago
You do not have to yell to be heard. You do not have to yell to be loud. You do not have to stand on a street corner and be impersonal to reach the people around you. You can actually tell the world about Jesus, and preach the gospel by building relationships with people all over the world, and loving them, and sharing grace with them, and telling them about Jesus, and sharing your testimony. Stop thinking you have to do it this way. By getting up and yelling and being impersonal.
rissahil 1 year ago
when Rob says God loves us just where we are I feel he means where we are at in our life God loves us. Sinner or church goer doesn't matter God loves us, however if we stay in our sinful ways an don't repent then yes we will separated forever. We must repent and ask jesus into our hearts this s vital but people need to know God loves them first and they have a chance to be saved by his love. God is does not want punish people in this life but will deny them from heaven because of sin.
danmankool 1 year ago
I think when Rob says to love God with everything and others with kind of the same way Jesus did say those of you who have done good for the least of you have done the same unto me.so wouldn't me loving others show how much i love jesus. and Never once did Jesus yell out to everyone you are all going to hell repent, he spent time with them, served them, led them, taught them into a new understanding of how to live in this new covenant with God. He transformed them through love.
danmankool 1 year ago
Both sides r right. I think bull horn guy is not wrong to be filled with anger towards sin, but to be honest to unsaved people its interpreted as anger towards them and judgmental. We attract more flies with honey then vinegar.
danmankool 1 year ago
Someone please show me where God tells us to yell at random strangers? Never read that in the Bible EVER.
I'm not saying that street preaching is irrelevant, what I am saying is the people that do exactly what he is describing (That I have come across first hand). What about relationships?
Open air preachers may be called to do what they do, but I have never witnessed ANYONE being interested in ANYTHING they had to say.
AND yes, they have ALL been alone.
stephenwhite78 1 year ago
@stephenwhite78 I could mention John the baptist, but you may respond he was not proclaiming the gospel, but Repent for the Kingdom is near. The point of this vid is that Rob does say "street preaching is irrelevant" I'm sure there are some bad street preachers out there, but Rob is out of line in this vid in the way he handles this subject.
truth4U2C 1 year ago
Note, Jesus was kid to people, relational, he sat dow in front of crowds and preached in a relational manner .When Paul preached in athens he found common ground, acknowledged their beliefs before presenting his. Street preachers aren't relational, neither are they willing to present the side of God that is loving or compassionate. Hell is a big part of things, but it should not be the motivation for asking people to come to Christ, it should be his love.
fallingup1986 1 year ago
@fallingup1986 Please re watch this vid, listen to what Rob says in light of scripture Sure some street preachers are nuts, I'm not definding them all, But be honest, don't be carried away with Rob's opening Point, so as you then take in what he says next....Listen to the points I make...Did I make any points that you think Square with scripture? or am I completly out to lunch? Be decerning, God's word should be lifted up over any of our emotional ties....
truth4U2C 1 year ago
@truth4U2C I think both you and bell make good points. But I think what ultimately shades in my thinking is the idea of of street evangelism overall. If people know us by our love, and if we are to be making disciples then we need to do more then just preach on the street. Sometimes it takes developing friendships with the lost, being alive in our communities, serving and loving. I don't reject street preaching, I simply think a sunday morning church service and street evangelism throughout the
fallingup1986 1 year ago
@truth4U2C week are not the only ways of reaching out to people and showing them the love of God. Forgive I am a little suspicious, I have seen too much of the turn to God and get a ticket to heaven mentality and the street preaching and too little of the loving and getting to know the lost people we come across in our schools or at work, in our daily lives.
fallingup1986 1 year ago
@fallingup1986 I completly agree with you, all the above needs to happen, that's why Rob's singleing out Street preaching is un called for, note the point I make in the vid about Good Cop / Bad Cop, that is such a great way to start a love relationship with a lost person, let the street preach do the tuff job talking about Sin, Hell, Judgment, and then pure on the Grace of God...it's law and grace that completes the gospel message
truth4U2C 1 year ago
two by two is descriptive NOT prescriptive
acaval3 1 year ago
@acaval3 Fair enough...
truth4U2C 1 year ago
Jesus' words and actions are not good enough for Bell. He wants a politically correct version of Jesus. Jesus' first words of ministry were "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near." Mat 4:17. Jesus said in Mat 25:46 "then they will go away to eternal punishment..." He called the Pharisees "You brood of vipers" to their face!
houseguy4 1 year ago
@houseguy4 Get out of the house dude! you rock! thanks for standing up for what the bible truly says...its far and few between that see Bell's spin...very decerning
truth4U2C 1 year ago
@truth4U2C Thanks! Keep tellin' the story! Bible Study Fellowship BSF is helping me dig in and learn God's word - and separate it from man's version of God.
houseguy4 1 year ago
The problem I have with the street preachers in my area is that they judge me along with everybody else in the world simply because I am downtown on a Saturday night. I am there because I have a job downtown. I have already turned from my sins and have been saved. I do not appreciate the way that these people paint the entire community with one broad stroke. If these people would stop throwing their brother in the hell category then perhaps we could encourage each other and swap ideas.
Say7what7you7will 1 year ago
@Say7what7you7will Street preachers are not preaching to those who have repented and are trusting Jesus, they are there for the lost. they are not there to judge, they are there to warn the lost that God will judge them.
From God's perspective, when we look at the 10 commandments, and we see that we are all sinners, "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" So the broad stroke is what the bible says,
truth4U2C 1 year ago
@truth4U2C I appreciate your response to my post. I am well aware of the focus of street preachers to save the lost. I feel I must make it clear that the street preachers I was referring to were Mennonites and shouldn't have implied that all SPs were like them. Other street preachers do recognize me as a brother and we are able to mutually encourage and love each other in the Lord. The Mennonites, however, continue to try and preach to me as if I were lost, even after I tell them I know Christ.
Say7what7you7will 1 year ago
Rob Bell isnt saying what they are doing is wrong, its just how they are doing it. Condemning people doesn't show God's love, and grace. which in turn is not going to make people attracted to God. Trying to win people over out of fear is not going to build a good foundation for their faith. Your supposed to show your love by what you do, and telling people their sinners, and going to burn in hell isnt really showing that love. A lot of these guys preach about grace but dont really understand it
faustn 1 year ago
@faustn "Condemning people doesn't show God's love, and grace. which in turn is not going to make people attracted to God." Street preachers arn't "condemning people" they're warning people that God is a Just judge that will judge them....all man Kind is already Condemned...fall of Man...do a study on the concept of the "fear of God" read in your bible about who we are to have a health fear of.....peace
truth4U2C 1 year ago
@faustn Christ wants us to preach truth. There is much not going on that quite a few do not understand. Our job is to give the scriptures but not wander if anyone understands-the Spirit of God works in those who hear whether the next day or ten years from now. Did Christ ever stop anyone from open air preaching? Christ cpommisioned preaching for the great commission as well as his disciples in his earthly ministry.
daveme7 1 year ago
there are a ton of things I could argue about this response to Rob Bell but just from glancing over a few comments I see some have already been hit on, so I will just say that maybe Rob isnt attacking all street preachers but just a few. Now in my experience I havent come across any that I'd say were loving and someone I would want to talk to more, but maybe there are some good ones out there. But can we all agree that what worked in the times of Paul need to be changed for our culture?
NCCRevolution 1 year ago
@NCCRevolution The gospel is timeless, it is by nature offensive, bad news your condemined, because your a sinner....good news Christ paid the price....If a person dosn't think that their a sinner...then, the gospel is foolish to them...listen to a message from Ray compfort called "Hell's best kept secret" you can find it easliy on google....Peace
truth4U2C 1 year ago
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Where in scripture does it say that God loves us as we are? It may not be in those exact words, but looking at various scriptures that touch on the fact that God loves the WORLD, namely ALL OF THE PEOPLE IN IT, so much that he sent his son to DIE for us, means that he loves us even in our sinful manner. This doesn't mean we have some things to change, but he DOES love us with all his heart.
amesgdg 1 year ago
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Where in scripture does it say that God loves us as we are? It may not be in those exact words, but looking at various scriptures that touch on the fact that God loves the WORLD, namely ALL OF THE PEOPLE IN IT, so much that he sent his son to DIE for us, means that he loves us even in our sinful manner. This doesn't mean we have some things to change, but he DOES love us with all his heart.
amesgdg 1 year ago
@amesgdg Yes while we we're still sinners Christ died for us....opon telling the sinner this we clearly see an invatation to repent, have a change of mind, heart and derection, from Jesus...God's love is recievied by those who know thier wretched state, and out of love seek to follow the Lord, and not stay in sin. Rob Bell's desire to say that bullhorn guy is misssing the love, could be a good point but in making his point he confuses the true gospel message that starts with sin..Peace
truth4U2C 1 year ago
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amesgdg 1 year ago
I am a Christian, but I absolutely loathe walking by preachers who are YELLING at people. You know what i see when I walk by someone like this? I see disgust and anger. I don't dislike open air preaching. I have seen it done VERY effectively, by a man who started with Jesus' love and moved into other issues from there. I'm not saying open air preachers should censor what they talk about, but starting off with brimstone comes off as hatred, not love.
amesgdg 1 year ago
@amesgdg This is great statement...so can you now see How Rob Bell's handling of this issue condems all open air preachers... the concepts of Hell, Sin, Repent, should show up in a witness encounter...He has many Christians joining his band wagon who I fear don't know how to decern the princibles of grace in lijght of our position....Peace
truth4U2C 1 year ago
This Is absolutely out of context.... Rob Bell is talking about a flawed ministry style. YELLING AT PEOPLE NEVER GETS THE POINT ACROSS!!! If you want to spread the gospel you do like Jesus did. He loved people. He was gentle. Jesus came to show his love and mercy. He did not come to yell at people for their sin but rather save them from their sin.
Only time you see Jesus whipping people and yelling was when his own "People" (the priests) made the temple a den of thieves.
gaytron87 1 year ago
@gaytron87 If this is out of Context, then show be from the bible where I'm off. "flawed ministry style" my point is that it is biblicllly sound, not flawed...Sure yelling can be debated, but I'm saying he's throwing out the baby with the bath water in this vid by not clearly saying what is the gospel in light or our sin.
truth4U2C 1 year ago
@truth4U2C I understand where you're coming from. Understand Rob Bell isn't putting down the context of what the bull horn man was saying. Rob bell was pointing out how offensive it was that the Bull Horn man yelled these things at strangers.
Jesus only reprimanded his own people and extended Grace to the Gentiles who didn't know better.
gaytron87 1 year ago
@gaytron87 I think Rob is disagreeing with much more then just the volume of the message...being told your a sinner is offensive...we can not sugar coat that part of the nature of man...some bullhorn guys lack love...I get it....but Rob is at least very sloppy with these princibles. Jesus said we would be hated because of him...
truth4U2C 1 year ago
note this comment from Christianity Today " Rob says. "We're rediscovering Christianity as an Eastern religion, as a way of life. Legal metaphors for faith don't deliver a way of life." This quote is still online, check it out, After reading this I see that he has an agenda... note "Legal metaphors" in other words "the Gospel" does deliver a way of life... the bible it calls us to be sanctified, and we are to be made like Christ.
truth4U2C 1 year ago
I'm still trying to figure out who this Rob Bell guy is. It seems everyone knows but me. So without any pre-conceived notions about his character, I can tell in this short video that he is not preaching the true Gospel and clearly not living according to God's Word.
ladivolfan 1 year ago
@ladivolfan Rob Bell is one of the emergent church leaders who as a whole is trying to interpert the Bible as subjective, not ojective, not absolute, Keep on decerning the truth for Truth's sake
truth4U2C 1 year ago
can't stop watching the top of his head
wcr4 1 year ago
rob bell isnt even critisizing open preachers. just the way they approach it....jesus didnt come to scare people into becoming a christian in fact he let people accept it or not...not force people into it....jesus came to give hope...the way some people preach doesnt build faith hope and love....it just puts people off.
lisagardyne69 1 year ago
I had the same experience outside of a Coldplay concert (I'm a pastor by the way). I think this idea is incredibly biblical; being honest with people about their spiritual state as the apostle Paul was, didn't mean he went off on them to the point of basically turning them away from Christianity. Who are we, even as Christians to condemn others. Do we have the authority to condemn? We have been forgiven and we are called (in Scripture) to forgive. I've yet to see a person respond positive
drewhensley 1 year ago
Who would you rather listen to, Rob Bell, or someone like the way of the master folks telling you in every other breath you're going to hell?
codypolk1973 1 year ago
@codypolk1973 Sure I like to hear that I don't have to repent, and that God loves me just the way I am, but is that the truth? The true gospel is upsetting, because it shows us in a true light... John 15:18 "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.
truth4U2C 1 year ago 2
the fact is this is your take on the sciptures.......
beaushilder 1 year ago
@beaushilder Read the Bible yourself, Rob throws out the gospel, by not clearly calling sinners to repentance...why don't you use scripture to dismantle my point? this isn't my take on scripture, it is scripture, read it, please seek the truth, while it can be found...Peace
truth4U2C 1 year ago
@beaushilder If that is so, please from scripture show that what Rob says "God loves us just the way we are" is biblical? I've shown the repent measage, from scripture, not my take...its in the bible, read it yourself, don't trust me or Rob, do the work, what dose the bible say?
truth4U2C 1 year ago
why must you poeple constantly pull this man down.....he is honest and exposing and also revolutionising christianity.....what are you doing? oh thats right your the christian police you sit around with enough time to pull apart to pull apart others....
beaushilder 1 year ago
@beaushilder "he is honest and exposing and also revolutionising christianity....." Wow that's what I'm concerned about...
truth4U2C 1 year ago
"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside." --1 Cor. 5:12. We cannot judge the world in the same way we judge Christ followers. How can people repent when they don't understand what it means? How can they understand unless we love them to Christ? No one will care how much you say until you show them how much you care.
AllenRoadForever 1 year ago
I think this guy means well but he's not addressing what Rob's actually talking about. The idea is that you wouldn't want to listen to someone who is up in your face, let alone care what they have to say. A street preacher needs to be compassionate and loving, if not then it's all condemnation and "scaring" people into listening, and that is not what God had in mind.
ehouck12 2 years ago
Sure, But My real concern is that Rob doesn't inform the lost of the coming judgment, He is so concerned that people will be upset with the concept of hell that he never makes the point that we are all sinners doomed to hell. Rob throws out the baby with the bath water in the vid by carelessly teaching something other then the gospel. Be on your toes, check what I've said, and what Rob has said, Who is more inline with the scriptures, because my intent is to give glory to God through his word.
truth4U2C 2 years ago
How do you know that Rob Bell "doesn't inform the lost of the coming judgment"? The point of THIS VIDEO is the ineffectiveness of a stranger screaming hell, fire, and condemnation on the street. Rob Bell is exactly right. Street preaching is very ineffective and many people feel judged and condemned by jerks like the one that is portrayed in this video. I personally have been offended but street preachers and know many others that hate Christians as a result of this insensitive approach.
willfowlersdad 2 years ago
P.S. I have a Masters of Divinity from an evangelical, conservative seminary and have been in full-time OUTREACH ministry for over 15 years. You are totally missing the point of this NOOMA video.
willfowlersdad 2 years ago
I get Rob's point, note this comment from Christianity Today " Rob says. "We're rediscovering Christianity as an Eastern religion, as a way of life. Legal metaphors for faith don't deliver a way of life." This quote is still online, check it out, My point is that Rob throws the baby out with the bath water, "Legal Metaphors" is what makes up the gospel, Rob Bell doesn't either understand how the gospel works or he willfully is trying to see Christianity as an Eastern Religion.
truth4U2C 2 years ago
Christianity IS an Eastern Religion... it was brought to the west.
xpesrx 1 year ago
How do you know that Rob Bell "doesn't inform the lost of the coming judgment"? I have read, watched, and listened for Rob to proclaim the gospel, I think he is very close to being a univerlist...I don't know everything about Rob, I hope I'm wrong but would you at lease agree that his handling of the subject was done very poorly?
truth4U2C 2 years ago
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now I don't think that all street corner preaching is like this, and it sounds like you have a heart after God and want to help humanity, but there are a fair amount of very judgmental teachings going on that make christianity seem like a religion of judgment rather than a religion of an incredible love that God gave to us. The greatest commandment is to love God and to love our neighbors as ourselves, and I'm not so sure telling someone how much of a sinner they are is loving them
mrsam1324 2 years ago
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mrsam1324 2 years ago
@trust4U2C
I appreciate your willingness to stand up for what you believe and your boldness in evangelism. And you make a lot of great points, especially about caring too much about what other people will think. That hinders so much good that could be done, I'm not sure if Rob Bell cares too much about what other people think as much as he hates it when people get a complete misrepresentation of christianity because of judgmental hell fire and brimstone sermons
mrsam1324 2 years ago
I think our culture, and many in the church, mis-understand Judicial principles if you are guilty of speeding, the law has a pre determined punishment set for that crime, a fine of $60 to $160. like wise if you simply are guilty of saying one lie, the bible is clear about the punishment that goes with that crime, eternal separation from God, (Hell) 1 Cor. 6:9-10.
truth4U2C 2 years ago
So when a Christians point out that men are guilty of breaking God's law, the judgment is already in place, we know what God will do with sinners who haven't received Christ's gift, the payment of their sins. We're not judging, we're informing sinners of the Judgment that is already been determined by God. Of course this is best said in love, and some street preachers are less loving, but Rob I fear throws the baby out with the bath water in this video. Peace
truth4U2C 2 years ago
"Rob's statements about God loving us just the way we are, are very misleading"
Not sure what you mean here Bob. Are you saying that God does not love us just the way we are?
timlinbob 2 years ago
God Loves us, yes, he loves us so much that he took on flesh, Emanual, God with us, lived a perfect sinless life, then he showed us how much he loved us, by taking our punishment, for our sins, if he loved us the way we are? He won't have had to suffer for our sins, when we realize the pain we caused Jesus, we being greatful, choose to stop sinning, "repent" Please understand, to repent is not works it is the love response we show God for his payment, we are born again, made new, this is change.
truth4U2C 2 years ago
1 Cor. 6:9-10 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders [10] nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. [NIV] Note we are defined by our sins, by the grace of God I was a drunkard, now by his power, Ive been sober for 20 years.
truth4U2C 2 years ago
For years I claimed Christ but remained unrepentant, drinking was my true god. Money, fame, sex, even watching TV can all become an Idol, if there is something more important to you then God, your still in rebellion against God. The call from scripture is clear God want us to change, become Christ like. Romans 5:10
10 For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!
truth4U2C 2 years ago
Note where we start "God's Enemies" We can't remain enemies, we are call to love God, He dosn't love us the way we are.
truth4U2C 2 years ago
Bob, really, it's quite simple my friend.
One can talk to people who don't know Jesus about hellfire and brimstone or you can talk to them about Jesus' love and about grace.
These are 2 baseline standpoints to come from that are both true and scriptural and do not preclude each other.
I have a pretty good idea which will get the more favourable response from those one intends to engage.
Let's stop pulling each other apart, sit down, have a cup of tea and re-read Romans 12:18.
Tim
timlinbob 2 years ago
Love to share a cup with you, I'll be in England the last 2 weeks in May... I totally agree with your statement, so like I use to say in the play ground as a kid...He started it! yes there are some street preachers that are over the top, but Rob throws out the baby with the bath water in this vid. Note what I say to "4inthefire" next to this comment. I'm very concerned that Rob preaches another gospel. Peace Bob
truth4U2C 2 years ago
Tea sounds good...
I have a quick question for you in the meantime
Does the street ministry work which you are involved or affiliated with ever preach "hell", "burn", "anger", "wrath", "sin", "repent", "eternal damnation"?
The reason I ask is that if you are doing that, then Bullhorn probably applies to you.
If you are NOT doing that but preaching love, hope, forgiveness, freedom, grace then Bullhorn probably doesn't apply to you.
I'm all for Peace :O)
Tim
timlinbob 2 years ago
In the street ministry I'm involved with we start with the Law which include "hell", "burn", "anger", "wrath", "sin", "eternal damnation" then we go into Grace, "Repent" "Trust" "Love" and "Follow" The good news is not good without the bad news first...listen to a message online called "Hell's best keep secret" by Ray Comfort. Rob's statements about God loving us just the way we are, are very misleading, according to him we're OK, then why did Christ die? I think Rob is ashamed of the Gospel.
truth4U2C 2 years ago
Did you read this from Christianity Today " Rob says. "We're rediscovering Christianity as an Eastern religion, as a way of life. Legal metaphors for faith don't deliver a way of life." This quote is still online, check it out, My point is that Rob throws the baby out with the bath water, "Legal Metaphors" is what makes up the gospel, Rob Bell doesn't either understand how the gospel works or he willfully is trying to see Christianity as an Eastern Religion
truth4U2C 2 years ago
Haven't read that one yet.... but something that strikes me as obvious is that Christianity IS an Eastern religion at it's heart.... Jesus was a practicing Jew who said he did not come to do away with the Jewish law, but to fullfil it. The only difference between your average Jew and a follower of "The Way" was that they no longer needed to offer blood sacrifice for sin. Christianity as Peter, Paul, John, etc would have understood it was Judaism without animal sacrifice but with the Holy Spirit.
timlinbob 2 years ago
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timlinbob 2 years ago
I understand your point here but I have never heard Rob asserting that we are fine without Jesus. What he does say often is that we need Jesus. He asserts that Jesus is the only way to know God. Jesus died to give us relationship with God, to restore the relationship that had been lost between man and God. To live like Jesus is to listen to God and we can't live like Jesus, without God. We are called to seek after the Kingdom, to bring people to know the love of the Father.
timlinbob 2 years ago
I hope your right...We sould lift Rob, and all preaches up in prayer to remain sound in word and deed....Peace
snowshop 2 years ago
Well said snowshop!
timlinbob 2 years ago
This Guy is missing the point, Rob agrees with all these scriptures, the point is that some forms of evangelism are more effective than others, I would agree with Rob in saying that Relationship/one on one/ serving evangelism is more effective than bullhorn evangelism,
4inthefire 2 years ago
Note this comment from Christianity Today " Rob says. "We're rediscovering Christianity as an Eastern religion, as a way of life. Legal metaphors for faith don't deliver a way of life." This quote is still online, check it out, My point is that Rob throws the baby out with the bath water, "Legal Metaphors" is what makes up the gospel, Rob Bell doesn't either understand how the gospel works or he willfully is trying to see Christianity as an Eastern Religion
truth4U2C 2 years ago
...Look, I hope I'm wrong about Rob, but be careful, he seems to be off base, with an agenda.
truth4U2C 2 years ago
2 Tim Is about correcting the Church not sinners, Rob Bell is not saying he does not believe in Hell or Repentance he is simply painting a picture of effective evangelism
4inthefire 2 years ago
I think something that needs to be noticed here is that Rob Bell never says the Bullhorn guy is doing something wrong. He doesn't say he's sinning. This issue that Rob is tackling is not one of right vs. wrong. It is an issue regarding better vs. best. What the bullhorn guy is doing may not be wrong, but Rob is saying that it isn't the best way to reach people.
MitchChilcott 2 years ago
Your splitting hairs here, most all who watch Bullhorn come away with a negative impression of open air preaching, as a matter of fact the bullhorn vid has made many of us in street ministry receive additional persecution from fellow believers because of Rob's negative representation of street ministry. Have you ever seen some of the good street preachers God is using for his glory? Who made Rob judge on what's better? by what standard do we measure his conclusion?
truth4U2C 2 years ago
Well, then that is great that there are good street preachers. I'm not discounting the actual act of street ministry at all. I'm simply saying that Rob Bell's point in his video was that this particular street preacher was not proclaiming Christ's love, he was proclaiming God's wrath. And thus, proved himself ineffective.
MitchChilcott 2 years ago 2
By the way, the word used for loving our neighbour is Agape A Godly, complete, self-sacrificing form of love - the fullest the human heart is capable of before Christ returns and we are made whole. This is the same form of love that we are to love God with (because it is all we are capable of)....look in a commentary before judging next time.
Grace and Peace.
amymhawkes 2 years ago
Well said, I do over make my point here, There clearly is a call for us to love sacrificially God and our neighbor, but I think Rob lifts up our love of man higher then, our love towards God. He seems to do that in other things he's taught, I'll sent you another video to watch...Peace
truth4U2C 2 years ago
I don't believe this to be true concerning Robs teachings, this is an assumption on your part. Loving one another needs to be emphasised as we clearly aren't very good at it -PARTICUARLY CHRISTIANS! I believe to truly love God is to love the creation that He so loves AS He loves. Shalom is seeking to restore the world to God's original creational intent. Seeking to restore humanities enmity with each other through loving one another can therefore never be overemphasized.
Grace and Peace.
amymhawkes 2 years ago
You would need to support this statement from scripture, in all my studies, I've never seen this to be from God's word. We are to be good managers of God's creation (genesis) Yes but "to restore humanities enmity with each other" will not happen by our love, but upon the 2nd comming of Christ...Our mission is the spreading of the gospel, So some will be restored back to God. Peace..
truth4U2C 2 years ago
Spreading the Gospel of God's Kingdom is - seeking - to do the will of God which is restoring His creational intent (this is not to say we can do this in fullness, or without God Spirit). This can be observed all throughout scripture starting from the call of Abraham. We'll have to agree to disagree I think. I wish you well.
Grace and Peace.
amymhawkes 2 years ago
Fair enough, keep your gard up, be like the Bereans, In Christ's Love Bob
shorelineoftahoe 2 years ago
You took Robs message out of context! God does love us just as we are, because there is nothing we can do to make God love us more or less even by converting. It was God's love for all creation "whilst still fallen" that Christ lived, died and rose again. If this is the main point of the Gospel don't you think this would be the most important point to shout at people about, not Gods condemnation. I think your bias towards your own points of view clouds your judgement.
Grace and Peace
amymhawkes 2 years ago
God clearly does love us, you have supported your position correctly from scripture, but not the way we are. I know believers end up having bias, I hope to always be humble to see mine, if I have one it is from the endless misrepresentation of Christ and his message compared to scripture. The best message I've heard to make this point is from Ray Comfort called "Hell's best kept Secret"it is easily found online for free to listen too.
truth4U2C 2 years ago
Please read the comments between CalebJPearson and myself (the blog comments below this one) to learn about Rob's bias. If you thnk I have one, please use the same decernment on Rob, because he admits he wants to "rediscoer Christianty as an eastern religion" Let me know what you think, peace Bob
truth4U2C 2 years ago
If God cannot love us perfectly as we are here and now, you are saying that God is incapable of perfect love. This belief would be counter to Christian Tradition, therefore inaccurate.
Grace and Peace.
amymhawkes 2 years ago
I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying we need to repent, because we are imperfect. God's Love is perfect....our response is to repent and trust God's perfect act of love on the cross.
truth4U2C 2 years ago
Matthew 7:17 A good tree produces good fruit, & a bad tree produces bad fruit. 18 A good tree can't produce bad fruit, & a bad tree can't produce good fruit.. I have seen the good fruit this specific message & all of Rob Bells ministries are producing where people are in love with Jesus as result of. Where is the good fruit coming of your message? We are the body & no body beats its own feet when they are moving in the right direction. It takes care of them so they can go further.
CalebJPearson 2 years ago
Good for you to use the correct way to judge, I'm greatful that you love me enough to boldly call me out. I will just say that "yes" I have fruit, I don't think it wise to list my fruit, you would see my love in action it you lived near me. Regarding those who Love Jesus though Rob's ministry, I hope they truly do love Jesus, but my grave concern is that they don't really know Jesus, because I fear Rob preaches a differant gospel.
truth4U2C 2 years ago
did you miss the point? Jesus went to peoples homes to show them love he went to the SINNERS homes and Showed them LOVE not the wrath and anger of God. When he showed wrath and anger He was in the Church speaking to the hypocrites who were making a mockery of the church. When he spoke to the masses he spoke about how to follow God to the fullest if you are going to follow Him at all.
CalebJPearson 2 years ago
I understand what your saying, but as instructed by the great commision, we are to preach the gospel, read acts, public preaching was the norm. Listen to a message online called "Hell's best kept secret" the good news isn't good if you don't know the bad news first.
truth4U2C 2 years ago
What kind of brother are you to being down a fellow Christian to the masses. If you have a problem with what he says you follow the BIBLE when it says you speak with him one on one . After that you bring another. Brother and so on. This is my most direct way to speak with you or who ever posted it.
CalebJPearson 2 years ago
Many in the Christian community have tried to reach out to Rob with the truth, the fact is he has an agenda. Christianity Today article titled "The Emergent Mystique" "Rob says. "We're rediscovering Christianity as an Eastern religion, as a way of life. Legal metaphors for faith don't deliver a way of life." your welcome to read it yourself, Rob clearly has an agenda, he want to rewrite Christianity,
truth4U2C 2 years ago
He clearly undermines the gospel by saying "Legal metaphors for faith don't deliver a way of life" The gospel is a Legal contract with God that delivers us from his wrath. Romans 1:16 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. Now I'm praying for you to see this very important point.
truth4U2C 2 years ago
I wish I could sit down and pray for you and show you that God has such a bigger plan for his church. Not taring eachother down. I have faith that you will make a change for Christ and your fruit will multiply because you support your brothers and try to build them up instead of taring them down. Yes the bible says faithful is the wounds of a friend but hey this I would say is a wound but its to you specifically to build you up. I will be praying for Gods full will in your life...
CalebJPearson 2 years ago
Are you talking to me or Rob? Many more people have seen Rob's rippping down of open air preaching (bullhorn), then this video. So I find it, a very one sided if you don't see Rob in the same light. I'll still recieve the prayers thankfully, for I am only a wretched sinner saved by a loving God.
truth4U2C 2 years ago
i do like the way you criticized it and think your standpoint is true like he could have used so much more bible in this video and i dont believe its my favorite by anymeans. he did do a bad job on this one to be honest.
anasianmidgit 2 years ago
i get exactly what u mean. living in atlanta and having my mom work downtown ive actually wittnessed this before, and honestly the guy didnt look like the video. however the same effect was having with people. they were giving him looks of shame and hate and like "shut up" attitude. i like how u used the bible his point is just preach in a friendly way like jesus did and it would be more effective cuz jesus didnt teach in a way if u dont believe in me right now u will burn forever. cont.
anasianmidgit 2 years ago
Ephesians 4:15 (New International Version)
Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.
In light of this verse and 1 Corinthians 13, how do you back up street preaching? As a Christian, I think it's silly. I hate walking by and hearing people preaching when all I want is some coffee. It's so annoying. If you really wanna preach then go feed the poor and preach to whom Jesus said to. Luke 4:18- 19.
Cshowbread 2 years ago
I think it's silly. I hate walking by and hearing people preaching (the gospel) when all I want is some coffee.
I love the gospel, I love hearing it...
truth4U2C 2 years ago
i love hearing it too... over a cup of coffee or while I'm feeding the homeless... not by someone obnoxious with a megaphone. It doesn't matter what's coming out if all people here is I hate you. Open air preaching doesn't work that well anymore. Scripture says to know the times. You gotta find a way to preach so others listen like Paul did with the Greeks.
Cshowbread 2 years ago
Yes there are BHG's who Preach "Hate" but Rob's sloppy job on his teaching includes the correct principles of the gospel message, he throws out the baby with the bath water...
truth4U2C 2 years ago
Let me ask you this. Has anyone you know of ever come to Christ through open air preaching? I don't mean said a prayer, I mean a full-fledged disciple. I'm telling you that you need to preach the gospel in a different way. No one said anything about not preaching, just not open air. It just isn't that helpful in Western Culture. Can God use it? Of course. But we become all things to all men, relating with them in the way they are used to. It just doesn't work that well bro.
Cshowbread 2 years ago