Fire and Ice: Permafrost Melt Spews Combustible Methane

[cmasiero]

Its to late. We have only a short window of 2 years, and that is just to buy us more time. Those little openings he is talking about, are now in excess of 1km.

[jeeraff]

if that ever goes ..if this ever happens..if that ever happens ...fear mongerers are everywhere ,,the earth all of sudden is going to shit its self and kill us all ,what a load of crap this is nature and normal ,,current temp at the north pole -25C and the south pole -35C nothing is melting global warming and climate change is bullshit

[qubenzispsyaudio]

Neo Inquisition by the CO2 Priesthood

[eretrece]

Some say the world will end in fire

Some say in ice

From what I've tasted of desire

I hold with those who favour fire

But if I had to perish twice

I think I know enough of hate

To say that ice is also great

And would suffice

- Robert Frost

[SteamMonkey115]

The real problem is that Methane gas stuck underneath the ice. When the ice retracks or for you huggers "melts" it will relase the presurrue and will met hot air and boom ded.

[dmlt12]

Action is needed to reduce mans production of greenhouse gas emissions...eg develop technologies & systems that produce less of these gases ..maybe increase employment in these areas..ie some positives (as well as reducing the significant risks)...Arguments from those fighting the risks of mmgw I suppose will get some traction if they are proved correct (in a global and systemic sense - not just localised cooling & using old trends that are not so relevant for recent decades eg sun spots

[MrDixiepride1234]

another piece of advice for u geniuses is to harvest the methane and to either sell it commercially so people can use it for heating and other gas powered appliances or to use it as fuel in power plants that way if you burn it it wont go into the atmosphere and you geniuses wont have to go to bed worrying about anything

[MrDixiepride1234]

@CommonRaven see now heres someone who actually knows who the hell theyre talking about

[MrDixiepride1234]

you people are freaking idiots. global warming and all this other nonsense isnt even real. its just a hoax made up by the government in ther 1950's so that they could steal more of our money and raise our taxes on just about everything such as gas and co2 emissions and so they could gain yet even more power. nothing we do has much to do with climate change. but if u dumbasses want some advice in how to stop this methane than the simple answer is to poke holes in the lake and burn the methane.

[dw90242]

this is another EPA runaway scenario, it's true there's dead matter that will start decomposing once thawed out. but decomposing occurs every where, what they don't mention is that once that ground is thawed out, new plants will grow to counter act the decomposition. mother nature survived in much warmer climates than we live in today. it is believed there were lush rain forests on much of the Earth at that time. this is not to say we should not practice green energy, we should do our part.

[idontcare80]

@CommonRaven You know what, I just can't have this conversation with someone like you, I've had it a million times before. You people are like broken records, spouting out the exact same Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck nonsense over and over and over. The same selfish, ignorant, paranoid, mindless, nonsense.

If you want something to get pissed off about why don't you start complaining about trillions of dollars and thousands of lives spent on the illegal war in Iraq? The only reason the green...

[idontcare80]

@idontcare80  ...movement is so important to you is because Rush Limbaugh and Fox news said it should be. Why don't you get your priorities straight?

[idontcare80]

@CommonRaven "We are not going to run out of oil any time soon. Peak oil is a myth."

Believe what you want.

"I'm willing to bet you know less about oil than you know about 'green' techs."

I know quite a bit about both, try me.

"We would not have this manufactured energy crisis were it not for sheep like you who follow any trend that comes down the pipe"

My father was teaching me to be "green" 20 years ago when I was 7 years old! He was building off grid homes before I was even born.

[idontcare80]

@CommonRaven "So, you can be a pawn of a company that gives you all the plastics and chemicals that make existence possible for our population..."

WE ARE GOING TO RUN OUT OF OIL, MORON. What are you going to do then? Try to plug your gas powered car into an outlet? Try going to Walmart to buy cheap plastic shit when oil is $300 a barrel! You want to know the ONLY thing I care about? FREEDOM. I want my own personal freedom from these big corporations and the only way to do that is to collect...

[idontcare80]

@idontcare80 ...my own energy on my own property. Do you know why I (and most other people) can't do that right now? Because the products that allow people to do that are still expensive as hell because the production volumes are so low! Now, why do you think that is? Maybe because MORONS like you fight ANYTHING big business tells you to, like green energy. Big business doesn't want people to be free from them, they want you to buy their shit! How can you not see this? Oh, right...

[idontcare80]

@idontcare80 ...because you're a fucking corporate TOOOOOL!!!

[TheBrokenworld]

@CommonRaven 2. Some of the wealthiest corporations in the world (oil companies, for example) are deathly afraid that people are coming to the realization that burning fossil fuel is having a detrimental effect on our environment and as a result are scrambling to convince tools like you that everything is fine and that you should just continue to consume like a good little corporate lap dog?

[TheBrokenworld]

@CommonRaven "Follow the money."

Wow, really? Maybe you should take your own advice. Which of these is more likely?

1. Al Gore has the ability to influence the vast majority of the scientific community and convince the world that humans are the cause of global warming to advance some scheme that will allow him to somehow steal American tax dollars?

OR....

[idontcare80]

@CommonRaven And what are you? A leading climatologist trolling YouTube?

I'm just baffled by people like you. Who really cares if global climate change is real or not? Our society only stands to benefit from the changes that will take place as a result of our attempts to stop climate change. Green energy, more efficient and comfortable homes, more efficient cars, less pollution, less dependence on foreign energy, etc, are all a result of people becoming aware that we are changing our planet.

[Maphysto]

@idontcare80 I just don't get the mindset of these people.

"Hey guys, we're kinda fucking up the environment, do you mind not actively raping the earth so much?"

"RAAAAGH NO KILL BURN DESTROY"

[RagnarokCro]

@idontcare80 what caused the ice age then? Dinosaurs with what?

[idontcare80]

@RagnarokCro What are you talking about?

[RagnarokCro]

@idontcare80 I think that the dinosaurs invented the wheel and they were spending too much fuel on cars and then they poluted the atmosphere with Co2 so the sun could not radiate through the thick Co2 and that is why there was an ice age obviously.

[idontcare80]

@RagnarokCro CO2 causes warming, not cooling.

[RagnarokCro]

@idontcare80

yes, i meant the other gas, forgot the name

[idontcare80]

@CommonRaven "I have two degrees, working on a third in an unrelated field."

Prove it.

[idontcare80]

@CommonRaven GO TO COLLEGE, find out for yourself.

[idontcare80]

@CommonRaven Yeah, the internet is a HORRIBLE resource. It's a wonder that I can site internet sources for college papers. MORON.

[AugustusLarch]

The global warming is a big line a bullshit. This guy gets paid well to fighten people.

[88qiflow]

fact is the nature is a mirror to ourselfs, what we do to the world we get back...humanity should be bring us to the fact that we are one. we can`t leave the planet und we share this place with millions of lifeforms. we are brainwashed from religions, political statements and for sure the most made money to god in the west. fact is that the medias show not the truth and young people don`t know how the "wheather" was 30 years ago.a change is happen. but also in our h. planetery system.

[yokubosan]

Pipe it baby, pipe it !! Free gas yall !!

[guystoners]

whenever there is bad weather, hot weather, hot weather trends global climate people / scientists will call it global warming.

If its cool, good weather, cool weather trends then you cannot look at one incident say the global warming people / scientists.

[kmg501]

This is complete rubbish.

The Earth has gone through many warming periods since the age of dinosaurs. This man is just fear mongering people. Life adapts, organisms spring into bloom to use whatever resource presents itself. We are still finding life forms that surprise us and yet this so called scientist is fear mongering the general population into doom & gloom.

These people are not credible.

[idontcare80]

@kmg501 Google: the sixth extinction. Life sure looks like it's adapting well doesn't it! Moron.

[chh5555]

@kmg501 I find that the people who claim GW is a hoax are people who are totally plugged into the status quo economically. The level of their hysterical denial is directly proportionate to the size of the SUV that they drive.

[kmg501]

@chh5555

You greatly over estimate your own ability to discern economic status of people on the Internet...

[derman077]

Put the methane in tanks. Use it to get to other worlds.

[wethepeople2050]

he's sweating. i believe him. as a matter of fact, there is an article in the Asahi Times talking about a new organism found that survives on arsenic instead of phosphorus. like of the 6 elements living organisms need to survive (carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, sulfur, phosphorous), this organism can survive w/o phosphorouos which to me says that we've altered the earth so much that we've altered ourselves and don't even realize it yet.

[guystoners]

the earth has been much warmer than it is now numerous times in the last few thousand years. This methane was there during this entire time. Scientists are so smart but yet so dumb.

[LegoM1089]

@guystoners Your right! in Denmark they are saying this Vinter will be the coldest vinter in a 100 years! last year was -20 Degrease now its getting colder

[christo930]

@guystoners YES! It always amazes me that random people on the internet, especially those with the word "stoner" in their name, are so much smarter than scientists. Why do all that hard science when you can sit at the breakfast table and figure out the world's problems while eating fruitloops.

[guystoners]

@christo930

I was just stating facts

I just hate when scientists will claim global warming anytime something is "hotter" than normal but will downplay any "colder" than normal. They are clearly biased towards global warming. Not to say it isn't happening - its just these nonsense videos and facts. Why can scientists be unbiased scientists and leave the decisions to the politicians.

[chh5555]

@guystoners They ARE unbiased and they are telling you, me and the politicians exactly what's going on. If you need to sink into denial and let your grandchildren deal with this then you better think again!

[monkeymirror]

CO2 does not cause warming and we are not contributing to a climate change. The elite however are experimenting with weather modification,

[chardnj]

he is talking sounds like..he wants some fund....this all about money...I am sure this is has been going on for century..,,now i want some fund..for my century theory..

[CanoPinto]

In Russia, you dont burn Permafrost. The permafrost burn you.

[tardiveivan]

The " recent " temperature rise , so called climate change , is part of a very well defined natural cycle , a rise and fall which occurrs anyway and has got nothing to do with anything human beings are doing and nothing to do with CO2. Even if CO2 was a probelm AND ITS NOT -consider this.  In 24 hours that Volcano that recently erupted put more CO2 into the atmosphere than human beings have generated since the beginning of the industrial revolution .

[CanoPinto]

@tardiveivan Good, let´s burn more and more CO2

[pathfinder756]

@tardiveivan no that’s completely made up, the various cycles that the earth temperature goes through can’t count for the huge increase in the current temperature. The earths orbit round then sun only produces shifts of a few degrees and only one hemisphere at a time, and in the shorter term the El nino/El nina cycles have been shown to be increasing in severity with the sea temperature, as for the volcano im sorry but that’s just plain wrong it produce 150,000 tonnes no where near human levels

[tardiveivan]

I work with ice core samples every day from all over the globe just measuring CO2. In the last 2000 years there have been several peaks of as much as 2000 % CO2 in the atmosphere compared to what there is today ( remember there is very little CO2 in the atmosphere anyway so even this is a tiny amount ). During those periods global temperatures have been several degrees lower than they are now. CO2 DOES NOT cause so called " global warming " or any other kind of warming.

[Corporations8MyBaby]

Why do regular Americans who don't work for Oil Companies so enthusiastically counter science... real science... with their emotions and beliefs? I just cannot understand this.

[7brok7]

at this point he is blanded by his mind and he cant think clearly anymore,

hes like EVRYONE WILL DIE EVRYONE WILL DIE

relax dude ! one big vulcano release 20X more evrything that you are talking about and your still fne soo whats the big deal !

[Hipster420]

Look in his eyes...this guy is scared, really fucking scared.

[money5022]

YOU SUCK !!! just put thumbs up.

[showaltermicro]

No diff in gas release from summer to winter-NASA 2004

[abumpinthenight2]

Who cares?

Tiger is back from his cheating ways!

[drtyfknmouth]

THE SKY IS FALLING!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!! Hahaha. WEEELLLLL,....Looks like we're all gonna die because I put some coke cans into a landfill and I chose those plastic bags for my groceries. MAINLY because I didn't vote for Al Gore. I'm sorry everybody. Millions of years of history, and I ruined it all because I don't drive a Prius. I never imagined that I'D be the one who'd end the world. What was I thinking? Me and my devil may care attitude,....DAMN ME!!

[bernzeppi]

You're an idiot drtyfknidiot

yeh right all learnin' is evil... burn your books!

You're a Nazi retard

Oxygen thief.

[dart6588]

@bernzeppi lolllolll

[bernzeppi]

Australia's top science body [CSIRO & BOM] said on Monday temperatures had risen about 0.7 degrees Celsius (0.44 Fahrenheit) in the last 50 years... "significant evidence" of climate change.

"all of Australia has experienced warming over the last 50 years"

We know that our CO2 has never risen so quickly. We are now starting to see CO2 and methane in the atmosphere at levels that we just haven't seen for the past 800,000 years, possibly even 20 million years," Clark said.

AFP- 3hrs ago

[bernzeppi]

Here ya go latest report from Australia... enjoy

csiro . gov . au/files/files/pvfo . pdf

[bsn3L]

wat da??!!

i wish they ***..

[benjovi55]

All the frozen areas of the planet were once non-frozen. The global trend seems to be headed back in that direction. We should reduce pollution, etc, but let's not be paranoid about every change we see. There's so much doomsday teaching nowadays it isn't helpful. Let's reduce, reuse, recycle and find cleaner ways to do what we do. But let's not be paranoid.

[calipdis2]

What to do, life a simple life, electrical car, solar house, no crappy tecnological divises, and planting trees in every empty grass space, as well you can be a vegetarian, and you must think in every living creature before u make a choise I would say thats a good start

[ecordy75]

More self-proclaimed "experts" believe they can beat the real experts on GW. They still refuse to accept that every statistic and point they bring up (e.g. small fraction of CO2 that humans create vs non-human) has been considered 10^9X more by the real experts and plugged into the computer models, and ALL data and factors added up by NASA, IPCC, etc.

Well, I feel *I* am entitled to an honorary purple heart regardless whether I'm in the military or not, because I am a military expert.

[svetli666]

yes the earth is the farthing at us because its time to realize what we have done so far in partaking the whole ground with our fat solemn ass plugged beneath our throat.

[rocksiphone]

Amazing

[SEElovEverywhere]

i watched the whole video on ForaTV i think it was excellent except for his not being okay with nuclear energy. Yes global warming is very serious, but if we survive global warming do we want highly toxic nuclear waste that we still have no safe way to store for THOUSANDS of years?

[TheRealArchAngel]

Humans make about 30 billion tons of co2 (from burning fossil fuels) eh?

30 billion times 150 years is 4 trillion,500 billion

100ppm in 150 years in a 5000 trillion ton atmosphere is 62 trillion tons of Co2 4 divided by 62 means .1/16 of the CO2 is supposedly form humans emmisons eh?

problem is that 100% of Co2 rise is of mineral co2 like those found in Deep ocean,on meteors,and on Commets,not the Organic CO2 that would be produced by a Catlyst converter in car filtration rpre-1994

[curingaging00]

another an amazing video

favorited 5/5

[spannerboy72]

methane = ready-to-go energy !

If its so easy to encounter in these regions, cant we tap into these reserves and use it ?

[TheRealArchAngel]

Gonna have to displace the Polar bears to tear up their Summer "solid ground" to mine all that methane

But then again CO2 is $10 a pressurized pound and is used for Plasma cutters,CO2 lasers,Sda pop,decaffinating coffe,and at 2500f becomes a clean burning combustable fuel

Mixed with a Diacid Co2 will turn into a plastic composite, Co2 is a "safe" gas for poweing pressurized pistons, and the original refrigerant used in Refrigerators before more dangerous Freon and amonia refrigerationc

[basebalcatchr13]

is it just me, or does he look like a child molester? Probably has the same brain capacity as well.

[anthonzi]

And of course all of that CO2 is going to be released all at once.

[KARStarla]

Hopefully all the plants will breathe it up, they live on that stuff like we do on air :D

[wade2bosh]

Methane can be used as a source of energy.

[Slug99]

wade2bosh: True, but it's still a fossilfuel.

[freesk8]

I fart in your general direction.

[KARStarla]

Yeah, awesome stuff ! You know I saw a vid with a guy who ran this huge farm right off of the methane in his cows poop, free energy right there, lets harness that good stuff!

[freesk8]

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

(Running around like Chicken -Little)

[funkalunatic]

Those who predicted the present economic Depression were mocked. But you're more like a Creationist mocking evolution, inasmuch as the science is undeniably robust, and we can directly observe the phenomenon. When the hard facts contradict your faith, you are choosing the latter.

[freesk8]

I think the earth is warming. I just think that human CO2 emissions are an insignificant cause of that warming. I think the scientific jury is still out on that one.

By the way, over the last seven years, the earth has been cooling, even as CO2 emissions remain constant.

Also, CO2 emissions LAG temperature rises in the geological record, suggesting that rising CO2 levels are caused by rising temperatures, and not the other way around.

I'm an atheist, so I am on your side on creationism.

[amet1980]

ridiculous unresearched arguments.all of them thoroughly answered by climate scientists.

there is more consensus amongst scientist about climate change than evolution.

[freesk8]

There are hundreds of climate scientists who are not convinced that anthropogenic CO2 is a significant cause for global warming.

There is WAY more data and more consensus on Evolution.

[BlackLookingGlass]

Climate change is natural. This is nothing new. Any part humans play is insignificant in the bigger picture. The cycles of the sun, and the melting and freezing of ice has been going on for ever..

[Slug99]

BlackLookingGlass: So you mean that the sea is getting more acidic and the destruction ecosystems just happens to be correlate with the fac that we are pumping out unnatural amounts of pollutants?

[BlackLookingGlass]

That's probably true.. And i'll say once again - "Any part humans play is insignificant in the bigger picture." The earth was here before us, and it's going to be here after were gone.. Sorry, but our car exhaust isn't going to bring the destruction of the world as we know it.

[Slug99]

BlackLookingGlass: Seriously this is like watching someone sawing away at the branch they are sitting on saying "Oh no the tree won't fall over."

[BlackLookingGlass]

Well then, message me some links to your proof, and we can hash it out from there..

[Slug99]

What kind of material would you consider proof then? It's not like there are giant websites which store global acidity levels from every year or something. There are however reports and journal publications about this all over the internet you can find them using google by simply searching for ' acidity ocean rising filetype:pdf ' then you'll find the digital copies of many reports and articles regarding the matter. I'll leave you to find material which disproves their claims.

[BlackLookingGlass]

I don't doubt that global acidity levels are rising, and that people are playing there part in pollution and global temperature.. My point is that I don't believe that human beings are the determinate factor in the temperatures of the earth. The cycles of the sun are the leading factor in global climate change..

[chadmalik]

Fine. We can argue that point for years but the point is - why take the chance that you are wrong? You feeling lucky, punk? why not take serious steps to reduce emissions anyway?

Its literally insane to continue burning fossil fuels as fast as we can and think there won't be any consequences.

[BlackLookingGlass]

Well, the problem with your statement "why not take serious steps to reduce emissions anyway?" is, that in the bigger picture (the bigger picture/agenda is the key here) the "people" are not able in any true sense to create and implement a new standard of energy consumption or production (maybe regulation). Believe it or not, there are large corporations and individuals that have deep pockets and far reaching influence and control over the current sources and systems of energy in the world.

[BlackLookingGlass]

There is an agenda, and there is a plan.. The way these things operate is not by chance. It's about material wealth, ego's, and power. Reduce emissions all you want, but the fuel will keep burning until the time that a new source of energy can be unveiled and capitalized upon by the powers that control the chess board..

[john1182]

fuel will keep burning, not untill we find new source of energy because we have that now, its just a less "perfected" way of power vehicles ect, its electricity...

buy the time we unveile a new "power source fosil fules will be harder and harder to find and more and more expensive and then wow there will be no money to "find" new sources of energy (even tho we have it)

i agree humans are not the cause of global warming ect it is a natural part of the earth, but we can try to slow it down...

[BlackLookingGlass]

I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say..

Here are some videos.

There are also great papers and books to read

The Energy Non-Crisis, Sea of Oil, Global Warming or Global Governance, The Missing Secrets of Nikola Tesla, The Great Global Warming Swindle, Tesla The Race to Zero Point Free Energy

[marsCubed]

BlackLookingGlass Every major scientific institution in the world has issued statements warning of the damaged posed by global warming. This is unprecedented and not opposed by anybody in the scientific community;

very accessible is new scientist or scientific American websites. read through articles going back decades.

There have been nothing but warnings Articles exposing the threat from corporate unscientific lobbies check out real science not corp propaganda

[marsCubed]

the fringe is not science, lobby groups do not speak for the community.

[KARStarla]

Exactly! At the caps the annual temp is 50 degrees below zero which is 80 degrees below freezing! lol It only warms up just a few HOURS a day for two months for the natural thawing that occurs at that time.

I do laugh a bit about all the propaganda (ironically to get into everyones pocketbook lol) because even if it warmed 3 degrees annually the temp at 80 below zero would be 77 below zero lmao! ( Armageddon my ass)

[LeGioNoFZioN]

I read an article from greenpeace back in the mid 1990's that predicted if the arctic ice melted at the same pace for 10 years that the amount of methane released would start cataclysmic global warming. That was roughly 1996, give or take a year.

[chaserehn]

Wow

Greenpeace is so very credible.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

my thoughts exactly, by accepted math we kept that pace yet no cataclysmic warming has started. clearly they use scare tactics and the politics of fear to convince us to follow their lead.

As such I no longer do.

[predatorishi]

whatever... u should learn before its too late... and if people like you dont get convinced you fuckers will kill us all in future...

[LeGioNoFZioN]

well then be that as it may, I require far more concrete proof to adjust my behaviour in the future. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. I will not be mislead by pale assertions based on minimial evidence. this is not to say I disregard the responsibility to not pollute, just assertions of global warming as it connects to carbon dioxide.

[amet1980]

NONE will ask you to comply , you will comply or else we will fuck you U so bad you will still end up complying...

the international consensus has already been formed,. your opinion is irrelevant.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

well then I guess I'll have to be a fugitive because I will not comply with rules imposed by outside influences. the question is which one of you hippie loving global warm-monger flat earthers has the balls to man up and deal with a person like me face to face ?

we are all agents of change, but we have to stand for something or we fall for nothing. clearly I was fed bullshit info by greenpeace in the 90's, so I refuse to buy into their shit now.

[amet1980]

as i said you meaningless unscientific opinion is irrelevant.

whereas you agree or not makes no difference to the rate you will comply.

its neither optional nor avoidable.when you start paying 10 dollars a gallon , you will ...develop an environmental green conscience.

or when your electricity bills is double per kw compare to an energy efficient house, you will comply..

neither otpional,nor avoidable.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

I won't pay 10 dollars a gallon because I don't drive, I live in a city with great public transit ... not because I'm green just because I am a reasonable man. I don't pay electricity because I rent, but if you green freaks did accomplish all of that you woudl drag America and Canada into a hole, and I am lucky enough to have roots abroad so I can relocate quite easily in a country that has more freedom.

[amet1980]

good luck.(in finding one..)

[LeGioNoFZioN]

you hear that Amet ? it is the sound of my laughing my ass off and the first piece of evidence is uncovered in this climategate. many more to come, I am sure. so now that you know people are trying to manipulate nmumbers to affect public behaviour do you have any second thoughts ?

[amet1980]

hearing your own voice without speaking is a sing of paranoya...

...you know whart comes next...

albuggie man will come to rape you at night..

[LeGioNoFZioN]

who shit in your cornflakes this morning and why the hell would you eat them after ? come on 1980, you know this alarmist global warming is a collectivist, new world order tool to control the masses. how could you side with the NWO over humanity ?

[LeGioNoFZioN]

reading your post, hoping for someone you don't know to get raped, I guess that answers my questions. I guess you want TRAITOR to be in large print on your epitaph. fair enough we all choose the roads we walk, and we are all held to account for the choices we make. I pray you open your eyes before you pass on.

[amet1980]

.....conservatives have a fascination of being raped by al gore, thats why i brought it up in the first place..

here is the evidence..:

/watch?v=VJUqmowQu6c

[LeGioNoFZioN]

in my experience it was always been liberals with rape fantasies

[LeGioNoFZioN]

ahhhh a fan of Cenk, should have known.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

incidentally enviro facsists such as yourself are throwbacks to the 20th century. eventually your fraud will be uncovered by the very sicence you pervert for your own goals. I will be laughing when that day comes.

[Mrcharliebobo]

Hey look you were right the fraud has been uncovered!! It wont effect most of these assclowns, they are too far gone and arguing with these BRAWNDO brains is useless.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

thanks, and very true, but I get a perverse joy out of some of these arguments.

[Mrcharliebobo]

I know what you mean. lol have fun!

[ecordy75]

Greenpeace is doing a hell of a lot more for people, for animals, for the environment BESIDES just fighting GW, than you ever have or ever will, and they don't get paid big fat salaries.

I have no respect for politically correct assholes who preach to me to "support the troops". I have the right to support or not whoever I want. Greenpeacers are heroes.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

cool, I think our Canadian soliders are heroes, and I think Greenpeacers are either blissfully misinformed or losers of the highest degree. Greenpeace was co-opted years ago, it is not the noble org its useds to be and hasn't been for decades.

[ecordy75]

I think government soldiers from any government (Canada, USA) have cushy easy stress-free jobs that freeload off taxpayers, without ending any real injustice - because they always pick out easy fights rather than go after the big terrors. I am free to talk that way about any organization I want, such as government militaries, just as you are about Greenpeace.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

funny that echoes perfectly my feelings about every and all politicians, even the ones I like. Post secondary educators as well, lazy asses.

[ecordy75]

And my feelings about conservatives. They contribute practically nothing to society compared to what they suck out of it. Canadian and US armies sit on their asses, when they have nukes they could use against nationalistic extremists like North Korea or theocracies like Saudi Arabia. Unless they blow up the courthouses and prisons that would imprison me, they don't protect MY freedoms.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

and trendy environmentalists, its all about show and not about how they live, liberals too, talk a mean game about helping the poor yet conservatives end up donating more time money and blood to underpriveledged people. liberal hypocricy ... the way of the world.

[ecordy75]

That's because conservatives - Bernie Madoffs and all the Reaganite worshippers who let Wall Street do whatever they want- suck ten times more money, than they donate to charify, from legalized corporate welfare and criminal fraud.

Fucking massive conservative hypocrisy, as has always been. Preached freedom in 1776, but kept slaves, forbid non-property-owning males from voting, forbid women from voting.

I don't owe you fucking conservative shit anything just because you're in the military

[LeGioNoFZioN]

Madoff was a democrat, as were most of his victims, so points for style but you loose more points for accuracy. Look at the big movers and shakers on Wall Street, its not an exclusively conservative circle. Many democrats in there doing the same thing. You don't owe me anything especially because I am not in the military. for the record Merry Christmas, and happy new year

[ecordy75]

Proves my point: Madoff was not a Green. Was not a Socialist. Was not a Communist. Did he fight with Nader ot end corporate welfare for past 30+ years? To legalize marijuana? To increase civilian power over police? To end factory farming? To give prisoners more rights? Unless he did all that like Greens, Socialists, Nader have done, then he was a conservative rightwinger who sucks off the REVERSE socialism trough.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

no because he would have to believe in those things to be a conservative which he clearly didn't, he was a neo liberal, a pseudo socialist, who spouted off the good fo the things you mentioned, while making money off the backs of like minded people who trusted him enough to invest with him. Madoff gave to Green causes, and liberal causes, and pseudo socialist causes too. he never gave to conservative causes.

[thesparitan]

while they do donate more, conservative ideologies are what cause the problem in the first place. and what you call liberal hypocricy is actually not a form of hypocricy. just because you believe that global warming is real doesnt mean you have to do anything about it. they still use cars because without them they could not get around. there is no alternative yet. its like saying a fat person is a hypocricy becuase they give a lecture about the dangers of fast food.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

how the hell does reduced government power and personal responsibility cause the problem in the first place ? the vast majority of humanity is hypocritical, regardless of ideology. like Ecordy before you I give you points for style, but your argument for what constitutes hypocrisy is weak. Al Gore not living the lifestyle he advocates is certainly a hypocrit. Like a meat eater who is militantly vegan, its just doesn't work.

[thesparitan]

Your simplistic representation is the first problem with your ideology, but I digress. I should have clarified, while I dont think its true his opinion is hypocritical, his life style is. The fact that he has a hypocritically life style doesnt have barring on whether what he says is true. I performed a use-mention error, my bad. Similarly, if a drug addict says drugs are harmful doesnt mean that he is wrong. Liberal hypocrisy, when it does happen, is not a reason to reject liberalism.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

ok, so even thought the dictionary defines a hypocrite as someone whose actions do not reflect their beliefs, you still dispute my fact based assertion. fair enough moving along, I agree that liberal hypocrisy is not a reason to reject liberalism. I am a man of faith, and like I said previously humanity is a species of hypocrisy. I don't reject liberalism, I only accept the tenets of it that are congruent with my faith. What I reject isn't environmentalism, just anthropogenic global warming

[thesparitan]

ok, I dont think you are understanding what I am telling you. I dont know how to translate what I am saying so I going to repeat myself but add more words. al gore being a hypocrite, does not mean that he is wrong. it only means that he doesn't seem to want to sacrifice. liberalism could be wrong, but not because some liberals, or even all liberals, are hypocrites. a hypocrite doesnt mean someone is wrong about what they say.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

I understand Al gore isn't wrong because he is a hypocrite, he is wrong because he advocates science he doesn't know or understand. He is wrong because the IPCC info he runs off of is incomplete, he is also wrong because if what he and the IPCC says is true, Cap and trade won't even put a small dent in the carbon dioxide produced by humanity, and to reach the zero sum goal inferred by the IPCC humanity within his lifetime all technological and industrial action would have to cease 20 years ago.

[thesparitan]

and to the first comment you had, all I have to say is watch the complete lecture and you will see why what you said is wrong. That being said, I could never convince because we have different views on epistemology. You are not bound by reason, you are bound by ecclesiasticism, which is not logical. You cannot except my criteria for knowledge because if you did you would have to sacrifice to much. Not your fault of course.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

well then maybe I shall watch the entire lecture. your assertions as to my thought process are more projection than reality for the record. condescension aside I understand, at least the arguments you have raised, if I did miss some of the speakers points by not viewing the entire program.

[thesparitan]

lets use Jesus definition of a hypocrite. he says "a hypocrites who condemn other people while concealing their own sins". al gore may not be saving electricity at a really high rate but he has done alot to stop global warming. if anyone can use electricity its him. he has given his time, and his effort. does he condemn Americans for there electrical use.

And why does al gore even matter. Its real, end of story. this is silly

[LeGioNoFZioN]

so because he advocates for global warming he can use 10 times the electricity of normal folks ? you're not doing a good job of convincing me here, but you are right Al Gore doesn't matter. whatever he advocates I endeavour to do the opposite.

[thesparitan]

"whatever he advocates I endeavor to do the opposite"

interesting statement. so if he advocates eating food to sustain life you will do the opposite which is not eat. are you saying that your internal reasoning to life is based on what al gore does.

And yes he can use ten times electricity, if through his actions, he saves 11 times as much. I dont expect a very religious person as yourself to understand logic.

that sounds worse then I want it to, but it is true. no offence

[LeGioNoFZioN]

well not eating wouldn't benefit me would it ? thus I would not avoid food, I only said I would endeavour to do the opposite, a bly if you will. A more practical and honest example would be if he advocates CFL's, then I buy as many incandescent bulbs as possible. within reason of course. I am puzzled by your excuses for him, so by manipulaing others actions and behaviours he need not mitigate his own, sounds like the reasoning of a despot or the 15th century pope to me.....

[thesparitan]

right ok, proved my point. well good luck to you. sometimes i feel that i am debating with air. this is so depressing. at least your nice, your a fool but your nice. god bless you, what ever that means.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

perhaps you are debating with thin air and I am just a projection of your psyche ... thanks for the blessing, and God bless you and your family. Cheers !

[thesparitan]

yeah thanks, catholics are always more nice then others. even atheist like me can be a little pricky sometimes.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

I'm not catholic but thanks anyway, non denominational for the record, my father is an Anglican and my grandmother was a Seventh Day Adventist, I attended both but stuck with neither.

[LeGioNoFZioN]

... I'm not offended, I'm used to arrogance combined with ignorance regularly, I watch a lot of American News. Reason is not anathema to the religious, nor do atheists possess dominion over logic and reason.  you may not believe me, nor need you, but it is the truth.

[myGOALisLEARNING]

I didn't realize methane ia a problem to today's environment. Thanks for the enlightment.

[franksvenatra]

I think that's why massive amounts of cattle is harmful too.

[KARStarla]

The sea and volcanos give it off naturally, they even have a vid on youtube showing life that lives and thrives where methane is released from the seas floor.

Its also free energy, another guy runs his entire huge farm from the natural methane from his own cows, totally self sufficient and sustaining by harnessing its power.